I'm gonna disagree with the other commenter ... I'm born and raised in the US and I feel like a goddamn alien reading Reddit, especially AITA.
Like yeah, the attitudes towards money are weird, but honestly so is just about everything else. The US might be an individualistic place but AITA is like 100x more intense than anything I've encountered IRL. Also, you have to realize that its very likely many of the posts are just creative writing/AI and not real people...
The whole gold digging aspect is a pretty common misogynistic trope btw. Its related to the incel type who think women won't date them because they have the wrong shaped forehead or something. In reality, the women I know just want a kind & stable life partner.
I mean, while it's exaggerated to a crazy degree on reddit, it's not coming from nowhere. I'm going to copy and paste what I wrote in another comment below.
So we can get away from conjecture here's some actual statistics on the matter.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/09/20/americans-see-men-as-the-financial-providers-even-as-womens-contributions-grow/
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/many-women-say-they-wont-date-a-man-over-this-one-financial-issue-2017-04-07
There is definitely a cultural standard in the US that places a lot of value on one's ability to provide financially especially for men. About 71% of Americans believe that a man must be able to support a family financially in order to be a good partner, whereas only 32% say the same about women. Women are more likely to want to "date up" financially, though those who do are still a minority. About 22% of women say they wouldn't date someone who makes less than they do against about 4% of men who say the same.
Absolutely correct, I was just pointing out that the perception op is talking about is based on a real social phenomenon. The person I was responding to seemed to be trying to act like it wasn't a thing at all and the data simply doesn't support that. The causes of that social phenomenon are absolutely also a conversation worth having.
Oh sure, like anything, it’s dialed up to 25 on AITA. But it’s definitely rooted in a very weird set of American “values” just like most AITA, it didn’t come from nowhere.
Reddit doesn’t “lean left.” Go to r/funnymemes or something, it’s basically 4chan, just right wing racist/sexist memes.
Likewise, a lot of the AITAH posters are clearly right wing neolib types. It’s all very WASP-y over there.
lmao everything in this is amazingly wrong including complete lack of understanding of what sprinkle sprinkle means and the cultural context of the language and the advice
I know who she is. She says sprinkle sprinkle at the end of her videos. But that's not what the phrase means. You can call it the Shera Seven dating strategy too, but that's not what her name means. it's literally just you associating her catchphrase with her dating advice
Given that you've failed to even understand that, it's not shocking that you don't understand her dating advice or the cultural context she's operating in
Then again, elsewhere in this thread you also compared her dating advice to communities of rapists and sex traffickers so yanno, yikes
I think it’s just part of the new misogyny- you’ll notice that, while women are accused of being in a relationship with a certain man because he has money, they’re also accused of ignoring men who they should view as ideal partners material because of his income
The best/worst ones are the ones who will talk about how they want a "trad wife" who does all the cooking and cleaning...but need her to work full-time too because they fear and loathe the notorious gold-digger.
And then they're shocked when they have trouble finding a woman who will agree to it lol.
See all the complaining about how could they possibly still be single where they lead with their income as one of their irresistible attributes 🙄. Like they put a sign in their window saying “gold diggers wanted” and now they’re crying about how “no one wants to gold dig anymore!”
Right? It's like they can't make the connection that advertising your wealth as benefit of dating you is going to attract people who are interested in the benefits of your wealth.
Or the dudes who want a "traditional marriage," but also, the wife had better not expect fidelity from him and better be fine with him sleeping with whatever other woman he wants, because something something biology.
Yeah it's kind of fucked that we're basically regressing when it comes to gender identity and that these teenage boys on Reddit and elsewhere are being indoctrinated by Andrew Tate and other chuds pushing this old-school "man is provider and woman is bang maid and THAT'S IT NO OTHER GENDERS" dichotomy
Men are desperate to make as much money as possible so they'll have an easier time getting women, but are also terrified of a woman using them for their money.
They believe that men should be the providers for their household because this entitles them to certain power over their families, but they also hate the idea of stay-at-home moms or spoiled children.
I think these are the four main conflicting roots of these people's struggle with money and gender: they firmly believe money should grant them power and control over women, but simultaneously see women as the biggest threat to their money.
You know, this comment made me realize that it's the same paradoxical treatment of immigrants: they're all lazy criminals, but they also steal "our" jobs. Women should stay home, raise kids and take care of the household, but it's disreputable if they pursue a man for the financial or other stability he can provide. Same hypocrisy.
You do have to remember one thing, folks posting their crap on AITA are not typical of relationships. Folks who are married 20 years, are more or less happy, aren't posting their stuff on AITA..
So to a point anything posted isn't normal
husband and I posted about a joke argument we were having (which i think is about as high of stakes as Reddit can handle) and a couple of commenters who responded were like, so incredibly butthurt about the fact that we weren't taking it very seriously. took the fact that we were arguing (jokingly) about something minor to mean that our relationship was all but doomed.
A few years ago, I posted on an old account about my then-husband accidentally farting while we were being intimate. I got *so many* replies from people insisting this was a sign of abuse and I needed to cut and run.
I think it is an internet/Reddit thing. After a short period of time here, it seems like a high proportion of posts and comments are AI generated, written by 13 years olds, or both. But, at some level, it is entertaining. I’m actually wondering if there are sub-Reddits where there is serious discussion. The only ones I’ve seen are history related but even there it is hard to tell on occasion.
I'm not american and I feel the same way. I see people on financial subs saying you need to discuss right upfront how much money you make, what you own or not, your career and financial goals with the person you're starting to date. That to me sounds more like a job interview than a date! And I wouldn't want someone I've just met to know how much I make and what do I own cause I don't know them and don't know what they would do with that information!
Misogyny is not something "new".
It's just more obvious on the internet because the incels aren't leaving the house or talking to "females" IRL.
There actually *are* a lot of people who think money can buy them a female - just look at the disgusting passport bros or those who fetishize marrying someone from a less developed country.
Generally the posts about finances in relationships are written by people who haven't actually been in a relationship. Although some of them do ring true to an extent because finances are one of the big problems for relationships. Yes there are people (men and women) who want a rich partner so they can live off their money but it's only a small proportion of people. Traditionally women are looking for a man with a higher or at least stable income who can provide as they are likely to be lower paid and have to take time out for childcare. But for most women now that isn't the case and it's usually the men who claim to want a traditional woman who are busy calling women gold diggers. Now I think most people want someone with a similar level of income or at least a similar outlook on money.
But the whole 50/50 on everything thing Reddit seems obsessed with isn't ever going to work in a long term relationship. The reason people merge finances long-term is because it is the easiest way to budget. All money goes into one pot and everything is paid out of that is extremely simple. The other way is trying to constantly manage how to split everything each time circumstances change and that just sounds exhausting.
OOP may want to check out [the number of Americans living paycheck to paycheck](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/banking/living-paycheck-to-paycheck-statistics-2024/). The internet can be someplace to work out feelings of financial insecurity on a stage of familiar tropes. Thats my anthro thought for the day. Cheers
About half of Australians are, too. We also take 3/10 top spots of unaffordable cities (US takes 6/10), so I definitely do agree with you, and Australia is feeling it, too.
I think it’s more easy to understand in a part of the world where money = life and where women can be trapped into raising kids and not pursuing education which is prohibitively expensive to come by and then your career is difficult to maintain when you already have kids.
I live in the US closer to the South and while it's generally expected for men to be "providers" I've never seen it much in person outside a parental pressure or social. Like women getting laughed at by older family for being the breadwinner.
Never a deciding factor in picking a partner
Australian woman too. I’m not going to lie and say it’s not attractive to be paid for on a date, but I’ve never rejected or accepted dates over income. It doesn’t really factor in to my dating preferences unless they have a gambling problem or are very irresponsible with their own finances. The internet is just over dramatic and likes to make women look bad for having any preferences what so ever.
I'm a US woman who has never dated a man for money. I'm sure they exist but that's never been my motivation, I've always made more money than any guy I've dated. My dad was physically, emotionally and financially abusive to my mom. He both implicitly and explicitly taught me to have my own career, make my own money/ be able to pay my own bills and not let any partner have access to my money. I pay more bills than my husband does and I'm ok with that, I don't think any less of him because of it.
It will always be a tired Conversation that farms engagement no matter the platform. It’s down to a preference thing. I wouldn’t judge someone irl if they have a preference for dating people with money and I’d more likely say something online. Even then, I would only ever bring it up if I am talking about a broader societal issue. People are entitled to their preferences no matter how delusional. I will say, I do see people getting on women for having even realistic standards. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a successful woman to want to date a successful man. Or to want to be attracted to your partner. A lot of these dudes (on Reddit especially) are straight up incels who get mad when a woman doesn’t want to fuck them.
I think people who are social outcast generally spend more time online and that’s when you see these people arguing endlessly online about a bunch of nothing. Most people irl don’t care about those arguments and won’t say anything (to your face) if you have a preference.
I think most people, especially as we get older, don’t want to date/marry someone who is perpetually broke due to not being able to hold a job, and/or because of irresponsible spending.
In my opinion, this is reasonable, but also different from caring how much money someone makes.
I don't even know if this is an issue of "my money is mine, your money is yours" not being the norm in a household. Whether that is your household's belief or not, it's communication failure and unbalanced power dynamics that don't HAVE to have anything to do with money that play out through management of money. If both partners are truly on board with "my money is mine and your money is yours and we figure out how to live together with that money," things work great. If both partners are truly on board with "OUR money is OUR money and though we are not equal earners we are equal trustees of our funds," things work great. It's when there's a disconnect between what you say is true and how people are actually acting and operating that things come to be, which is unfortunately prevalent in the real world as much as it is in (obviously often fake) AITA posts. It's an easily understood dynamic that can make people feel a certain type of way when used in a story!
Americans are VERY weird about money. It is a basically an intrinsic reflection of a persons worth as a human being.
It’s not just Reddit. It’s large parts of the American public.
Really interesting to hear! Do you think it’s a facet of ‘hustle culture’ where people prioritise/brag about prioritising maximising the amount of money they earn at the expense of their psychological and physical wellbeing?
I think hustle culture is a manifestation of the attitude, not the cause of it.
Americans have always loved get rich quick schemes and hustle culture is just an example of that, but it all ties back to Americans wanting lots of money and valuing people who have more.
We are raised to identify oneself with a career. From a young age, it's asked, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" And most occupations see to be low paying or dirty are seen as less important. Things like construction or waste collection are not heavily valued though they have a low cost of entry and pay generally well.
Just for the record, I live in the US and I rarely hear someone engage in that kind of "hustle culture" offline, like maybe one or two people I've met in my life are like that. More people I know are trying to figure how to have a 28-32 hr workweek and still get by.
I'm gonna have to disagree with this. While there are certainly swaths of Americans who place a lot of value on money, they're (in my experience, at least) more often than not of a different generation. Most Millennials and Gen Z'ers I've met (even a lot of Gen X'ers) don't view your income as a reflection of your worth. Heck, the cost of living is so high that most of us can't afford to be picky about our partner's income! In most under-50's couples I've encountered, both the man and woman work, and by and large I think people are getting very burnt out of the hustle culture.
Again, there are exceptions. I just wanted to raise a disclaimer for OOP that Reddit is generally NOT indicative of American culture, and I wouldn't base any stereotypes off of a website where the stories are so different from most actual Americans' experiences.
Oh yeah I agree with that. I was more just cautioning about basing an opinion about any kind of culture off of Reddit, since there are so many fake stories. I mean, looking at Reddit, you'd think 98% of American couples consisted of stay-at-home wives and penny-pinching men making 6 figures. There are lots of money-obsessed Americans to be sure, but there are also lots who aren't. Also, MANY Americans don't worship Donald Trump and Elon Musk.
I agree that generational/age differences play a huge part here. I would say that almost every single Millennial or Gen-Zer knows people who did everything that is supposed to lead to economic success and who still got completely fucked over by recessions, student loan debt, out of control housing markets etc. Sure, some people see that and tell themselves that people economically suffering just made bad choices - hustle culture and American success narratives and all - but the vast majority of those generations, across all political lines and demographics, are aware that something is really wrong with traditional pathways to economic stability.
Maybe it’s just me but we never combined our finances! He earned his money, he gets to keep it! I earned mine, same deal! I paid for my stuff - clothes, hobbies, etc - and most of the bills, all food, household stuff, etc. He paid other stuff. It worked out fairly; he made a shit ton more money than I do. We *never* fought about money. I thought it was a fair arrangement.
Although when we spit up, he became aware of just how much I was paying when he had to take over the bills I’d been taking care of.
I'm probably misunderstanding your post, but is there something wrong with women having standards in terms of salary or even being provided for? Asking as a guy. I think all of my female friends care about how much their potential partner earns. IMO It's just a factor for compatibility and expectation setting. I see people complain about it on Reddit but never IRL, but I'm in my 30s so idk. Maybe teenagers and early 20s dudes are super jaded about this stuff.
Also don't think this is unique to the US, nor do I think Australia is immune to this type of discourse based on what I've seen in the internet.
There's a lot to unpack with it, though. First of all, many conversations about this are had in a purely hypothetical space, as if you could just choose how much your partner made. In that case, why not choose a lot? In a foreign language class I was taking they asked us to describe our ideal boyfriend or girlfriend as a way to practice adjectives, and *all* of the guys (compared with only most of the girls) included "rich". It wasn't anyone's most important thing, but if you're already making up a tall, thin, funny, good-natured woman or man, why not throw "rich" in there?
The other factor is that income is often a proxy for other attractive traits. Intelligence, competitiveness, self-discipline, ability to get along with people, social status. Actually, status is probably the most important thing - dentists earn comparably to doctors and plumbers to lawyers, so if the gold-digging hypothesis were true, plumbers and dentists would be just as attractive partners as doctors and lawyers. But they're not, because money isn't as important as status.
I'm in agreement with you on all of that. I'm not surprised it's not a gender-specific trait too, and yeah when I think about it I've heard several male friends talk (in more hushed tones) about the financial status they expect of women they date. I address the proxy aspect in a comment further down this thread, and I actually meant to highlight status as a more accurate quality than wealth.
From my perspective- yeah, kinda. I mean, when I envision my future, I don’t envision buying a house or car with two people’s money. I know that would make things a lot easier, especially considering the state of the economy, but I’ve just never factored it into my long term plans. Obviously if I were to live with someone I’d expect we both pay the same amount (or a proportional amount to our income, if there’s a big discrepancy) for housing and bills and stuff, but when I think about the future I don’t just assume a partner with money is going to be part of it.
I wouldn’t call it ‘standards’, I’d call it an expectation. A weird expectation, in my personal view.
Would you consider it a "weird expectation" that a partner can carry their own weight?
Financial compatibility is a major part of overall compatibility. Someone happy to go into debt for frivolity is not going to be compatible with someone who's trying to save for early retirement by living off beans and rice. It may not be something you discuss on a first date but it's something to consider for those moving onto something more serious.
I think the issue is that misogynists like to distort that into "no money no honey" and other such "witty tropes".
No, definitely not. Which makes me think the weirder part in my perception is the expectation of a partner. Maybe it’s because I generally don’t really date or I was raised by single parents or whatever. I just don’t expect a partner at any given time- although if I were to have one, I’d want them to contribute equally/proportionally, whichever makes more sense
u/Whole_Mechanic_8143 nailed it. Aside from the inevitability of some merging of financial goals further down in the relationship, I'd go further to say that financial status of a partner will probably play a role in compatibility early on. If a random woman makes 4x as much as a random man, chances are their ambition, attitudes toward life, hobbies, and lifestyles differ. Exceptions obviously exist, but people use heuristics to be selective in dating anyway.
ETA: the last part might be controversial, but idk, I've heard it from the majority of my female friends. None of them are being selective in that regard for shallow purposes IMO, they're just being realistic.
Your attitude is definitely healthy though. My girlfriend grew up in a single parent household too and she's communicated the importance of being self sufficient, which I'm completely supportive of, as well as equal contribution in terms of relationship duties (household work, etc) and, more implicitly, proportional contribution in terms of money spent on dates, rent, etc.
So we can get away from conjecture here's some actual statistics on the matter.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/09/20/americans-see-men-as-the-financial-providers-even-as-womens-contributions-grow/
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/many-women-say-they-wont-date-a-man-over-this-one-financial-issue-2017-04-07
There is definitely a cultural standard in the US that places a lot of value on one's ability to provide financially especially for men. About 71% of Americans believe that a man must be able to support a family financially in order to be a good partner, whereas only 32% say the same about women. Women are more likely to want to "date up" financially, though those who do are still a minority. About 22% of women say they wouldn't date someone who makes less than they do against about 4% of men who say the same.
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Reddit does NOT represent...wait, no, Reddit POSTERS do not represent American values.
The responses, however, show how stupid Americans really are.
They take the bait, hook, line, and sinker. And down vote you if you point out their lack of critical thinking.
G'day mate!!
Yeah agreed, not like that in the UK either.
Dates are always split. First date is usually just a few pints, and the chivalry is most fellas like to be the one to get the first round in.
I've lived with a partner and we split rent and bills 50/50, but as he earnt a little more than I did he'd cover more of the treats. I did more of the housework and cooking.
I'm not saying all of this is gender neutral, clearly not. But I've known a lot of men who weren't scared to tell me their opinion on gender relations and not one of them mentioned the money of it.
Dates aren't always split it depends on the couple. But generally I think most people either split bills or take turns in paying. I have met a few men who got offended when I suggested splitting though.
Yes most couples take turns, I meant for first dates specifically. Yes sometimes men insist on paying here, not personally had one be offended at me saying we will split it though.
I’m more trying to get a read on whether the phenomenon is a cultural difference (meaning it’s just abnormal to me) or just a weirdly specific internet thing (meaning it’s abnormal everywhere). I dunno, I think it’s interesting. Sorta like online anthropology
I'm gonna disagree with the other commenter ... I'm born and raised in the US and I feel like a goddamn alien reading Reddit, especially AITA. Like yeah, the attitudes towards money are weird, but honestly so is just about everything else. The US might be an individualistic place but AITA is like 100x more intense than anything I've encountered IRL. Also, you have to realize that its very likely many of the posts are just creative writing/AI and not real people... The whole gold digging aspect is a pretty common misogynistic trope btw. Its related to the incel type who think women won't date them because they have the wrong shaped forehead or something. In reality, the women I know just want a kind & stable life partner.
Reddit is like 75% men so makes sense.
Men dominate subs like r/NFL. Women do dominate some subs though, like r/AITAH.
Oh yeah. The VAST majority of these fiction pieces are clearly from people outside the US.
I mean, while it's exaggerated to a crazy degree on reddit, it's not coming from nowhere. I'm going to copy and paste what I wrote in another comment below. So we can get away from conjecture here's some actual statistics on the matter. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/09/20/americans-see-men-as-the-financial-providers-even-as-womens-contributions-grow/ https://www.marketwatch.com/story/many-women-say-they-wont-date-a-man-over-this-one-financial-issue-2017-04-07 There is definitely a cultural standard in the US that places a lot of value on one's ability to provide financially especially for men. About 71% of Americans believe that a man must be able to support a family financially in order to be a good partner, whereas only 32% say the same about women. Women are more likely to want to "date up" financially, though those who do are still a minority. About 22% of women say they wouldn't date someone who makes less than they do against about 4% of men who say the same.
American women also know that they'll wind up having to do the care responsibilities if they have children. It's a whole feedback loop.
Absolutely correct, I was just pointing out that the perception op is talking about is based on a real social phenomenon. The person I was responding to seemed to be trying to act like it wasn't a thing at all and the data simply doesn't support that. The causes of that social phenomenon are absolutely also a conversation worth having.
Oh sure, like anything, it’s dialed up to 25 on AITA. But it’s definitely rooted in a very weird set of American “values” just like most AITA, it didn’t come from nowhere.
Correct, and it did not come from the US either.
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Reddit doesn’t “lean left.” Go to r/funnymemes or something, it’s basically 4chan, just right wing racist/sexist memes. Likewise, a lot of the AITAH posters are clearly right wing neolib types. It’s all very WASP-y over there.
Have you ever experienced "sprinkle sprinkle" in real life, or is it just something you read about on the internet?
lmao everything in this is amazingly wrong including complete lack of understanding of what sprinkle sprinkle means and the cultural context of the language and the advice
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it means "bless your heart" (genuine) or can be a form of agreement or thanks
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I know who she is. She says sprinkle sprinkle at the end of her videos. But that's not what the phrase means. You can call it the Shera Seven dating strategy too, but that's not what her name means. it's literally just you associating her catchphrase with her dating advice Given that you've failed to even understand that, it's not shocking that you don't understand her dating advice or the cultural context she's operating in Then again, elsewhere in this thread you also compared her dating advice to communities of rapists and sex traffickers so yanno, yikes
I think it’s just part of the new misogyny- you’ll notice that, while women are accused of being in a relationship with a certain man because he has money, they’re also accused of ignoring men who they should view as ideal partners material because of his income
They don't want a gold digger but they want a trad wife who stays at home and cooks and cleans for him........ They want a slave lol
The best/worst ones are the ones who will talk about how they want a "trad wife" who does all the cooking and cleaning...but need her to work full-time too because they fear and loathe the notorious gold-digger. And then they're shocked when they have trouble finding a woman who will agree to it lol.
See all the complaining about how could they possibly still be single where they lead with their income as one of their irresistible attributes 🙄. Like they put a sign in their window saying “gold diggers wanted” and now they’re crying about how “no one wants to gold dig anymore!”
Right? It's like they can't make the connection that advertising your wealth as benefit of dating you is going to attract people who are interested in the benefits of your wealth.
Or the dudes who want a "traditional marriage," but also, the wife had better not expect fidelity from him and better be fine with him sleeping with whatever other woman he wants, because something something biology.
Yeah it's kind of fucked that we're basically regressing when it comes to gender identity and that these teenage boys on Reddit and elsewhere are being indoctrinated by Andrew Tate and other chuds pushing this old-school "man is provider and woman is bang maid and THAT'S IT NO OTHER GENDERS" dichotomy
Men are desperate to make as much money as possible so they'll have an easier time getting women, but are also terrified of a woman using them for their money. They believe that men should be the providers for their household because this entitles them to certain power over their families, but they also hate the idea of stay-at-home moms or spoiled children. I think these are the four main conflicting roots of these people's struggle with money and gender: they firmly believe money should grant them power and control over women, but simultaneously see women as the biggest threat to their money.
You know, this comment made me realize that it's the same paradoxical treatment of immigrants: they're all lazy criminals, but they also steal "our" jobs. Women should stay home, raise kids and take care of the household, but it's disreputable if they pursue a man for the financial or other stability he can provide. Same hypocrisy.
You do have to remember one thing, folks posting their crap on AITA are not typical of relationships. Folks who are married 20 years, are more or less happy, aren't posting their stuff on AITA.. So to a point anything posted isn't normal
husband and I posted about a joke argument we were having (which i think is about as high of stakes as Reddit can handle) and a couple of commenters who responded were like, so incredibly butthurt about the fact that we weren't taking it very seriously. took the fact that we were arguing (jokingly) about something minor to mean that our relationship was all but doomed.
A few years ago, I posted on an old account about my then-husband accidentally farting while we were being intimate. I got *so many* replies from people insisting this was a sign of abuse and I needed to cut and run.
Reddit and places like AITA are absolutely loaded with insane people with terrible opinions.
I always thought I was shit at relationships, and I probably am, but Reddit is a whole 'nother level of dysfunctional.
I think it is an internet/Reddit thing. After a short period of time here, it seems like a high proportion of posts and comments are AI generated, written by 13 years olds, or both. But, at some level, it is entertaining. I’m actually wondering if there are sub-Reddits where there is serious discussion. The only ones I’ve seen are history related but even there it is hard to tell on occasion.
I'm not american and I feel the same way. I see people on financial subs saying you need to discuss right upfront how much money you make, what you own or not, your career and financial goals with the person you're starting to date. That to me sounds more like a job interview than a date! And I wouldn't want someone I've just met to know how much I make and what do I own cause I don't know them and don't know what they would do with that information!
Misogyny is not something "new". It's just more obvious on the internet because the incels aren't leaving the house or talking to "females" IRL. There actually *are* a lot of people who think money can buy them a female - just look at the disgusting passport bros or those who fetishize marrying someone from a less developed country.
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how you slept connected sprinkle sprinkle to rape and human trafficking is fucking wild. what on earth are you doing in this sub
Generally the posts about finances in relationships are written by people who haven't actually been in a relationship. Although some of them do ring true to an extent because finances are one of the big problems for relationships. Yes there are people (men and women) who want a rich partner so they can live off their money but it's only a small proportion of people. Traditionally women are looking for a man with a higher or at least stable income who can provide as they are likely to be lower paid and have to take time out for childcare. But for most women now that isn't the case and it's usually the men who claim to want a traditional woman who are busy calling women gold diggers. Now I think most people want someone with a similar level of income or at least a similar outlook on money. But the whole 50/50 on everything thing Reddit seems obsessed with isn't ever going to work in a long term relationship. The reason people merge finances long-term is because it is the easiest way to budget. All money goes into one pot and everything is paid out of that is extremely simple. The other way is trying to constantly manage how to split everything each time circumstances change and that just sounds exhausting.
OOP may want to check out [the number of Americans living paycheck to paycheck](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/banking/living-paycheck-to-paycheck-statistics-2024/). The internet can be someplace to work out feelings of financial insecurity on a stage of familiar tropes. Thats my anthro thought for the day. Cheers
About half of Australians are, too. We also take 3/10 top spots of unaffordable cities (US takes 6/10), so I definitely do agree with you, and Australia is feeling it, too.
I think it’s more easy to understand in a part of the world where money = life and where women can be trapped into raising kids and not pursuing education which is prohibitively expensive to come by and then your career is difficult to maintain when you already have kids.
I live in the US closer to the South and while it's generally expected for men to be "providers" I've never seen it much in person outside a parental pressure or social. Like women getting laughed at by older family for being the breadwinner. Never a deciding factor in picking a partner
Australian woman too. I’m not going to lie and say it’s not attractive to be paid for on a date, but I’ve never rejected or accepted dates over income. It doesn’t really factor in to my dating preferences unless they have a gambling problem or are very irresponsible with their own finances. The internet is just over dramatic and likes to make women look bad for having any preferences what so ever.
I'm a US woman who has never dated a man for money. I'm sure they exist but that's never been my motivation, I've always made more money than any guy I've dated. My dad was physically, emotionally and financially abusive to my mom. He both implicitly and explicitly taught me to have my own career, make my own money/ be able to pay my own bills and not let any partner have access to my money. I pay more bills than my husband does and I'm ok with that, I don't think any less of him because of it.
That’s my situation too! My mum always taught me to never rely on a man for money.
It will always be a tired Conversation that farms engagement no matter the platform. It’s down to a preference thing. I wouldn’t judge someone irl if they have a preference for dating people with money and I’d more likely say something online. Even then, I would only ever bring it up if I am talking about a broader societal issue. People are entitled to their preferences no matter how delusional. I will say, I do see people getting on women for having even realistic standards. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a successful woman to want to date a successful man. Or to want to be attracted to your partner. A lot of these dudes (on Reddit especially) are straight up incels who get mad when a woman doesn’t want to fuck them. I think people who are social outcast generally spend more time online and that’s when you see these people arguing endlessly online about a bunch of nothing. Most people irl don’t care about those arguments and won’t say anything (to your face) if you have a preference.
I think most people, especially as we get older, don’t want to date/marry someone who is perpetually broke due to not being able to hold a job, and/or because of irresponsible spending. In my opinion, this is reasonable, but also different from caring how much money someone makes.
I don't even know if this is an issue of "my money is mine, your money is yours" not being the norm in a household. Whether that is your household's belief or not, it's communication failure and unbalanced power dynamics that don't HAVE to have anything to do with money that play out through management of money. If both partners are truly on board with "my money is mine and your money is yours and we figure out how to live together with that money," things work great. If both partners are truly on board with "OUR money is OUR money and though we are not equal earners we are equal trustees of our funds," things work great. It's when there's a disconnect between what you say is true and how people are actually acting and operating that things come to be, which is unfortunately prevalent in the real world as much as it is in (obviously often fake) AITA posts. It's an easily understood dynamic that can make people feel a certain type of way when used in a story!
Americans are VERY weird about money. It is a basically an intrinsic reflection of a persons worth as a human being. It’s not just Reddit. It’s large parts of the American public.
Really interesting to hear! Do you think it’s a facet of ‘hustle culture’ where people prioritise/brag about prioritising maximising the amount of money they earn at the expense of their psychological and physical wellbeing?
I think hustle culture is a manifestation of the attitude, not the cause of it. Americans have always loved get rich quick schemes and hustle culture is just an example of that, but it all ties back to Americans wanting lots of money and valuing people who have more.
We are raised to identify oneself with a career. From a young age, it's asked, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" And most occupations see to be low paying or dirty are seen as less important. Things like construction or waste collection are not heavily valued though they have a low cost of entry and pay generally well.
Just for the record, I live in the US and I rarely hear someone engage in that kind of "hustle culture" offline, like maybe one or two people I've met in my life are like that. More people I know are trying to figure how to have a 28-32 hr workweek and still get by.
I'm gonna have to disagree with this. While there are certainly swaths of Americans who place a lot of value on money, they're (in my experience, at least) more often than not of a different generation. Most Millennials and Gen Z'ers I've met (even a lot of Gen X'ers) don't view your income as a reflection of your worth. Heck, the cost of living is so high that most of us can't afford to be picky about our partner's income! In most under-50's couples I've encountered, both the man and woman work, and by and large I think people are getting very burnt out of the hustle culture. Again, there are exceptions. I just wanted to raise a disclaimer for OOP that Reddit is generally NOT indicative of American culture, and I wouldn't base any stereotypes off of a website where the stories are so different from most actual Americans' experiences.
Disagree. There’s a reason Donald trump and Elon musk are worshipped.
Oh yeah I agree with that. I was more just cautioning about basing an opinion about any kind of culture off of Reddit, since there are so many fake stories. I mean, looking at Reddit, you'd think 98% of American couples consisted of stay-at-home wives and penny-pinching men making 6 figures. There are lots of money-obsessed Americans to be sure, but there are also lots who aren't. Also, MANY Americans don't worship Donald Trump and Elon Musk.
By a specific kind of person who isn’t representative of all or even most Americans.
I agree that generational/age differences play a huge part here. I would say that almost every single Millennial or Gen-Zer knows people who did everything that is supposed to lead to economic success and who still got completely fucked over by recessions, student loan debt, out of control housing markets etc. Sure, some people see that and tell themselves that people economically suffering just made bad choices - hustle culture and American success narratives and all - but the vast majority of those generations, across all political lines and demographics, are aware that something is really wrong with traditional pathways to economic stability.
Maybe it’s just me but we never combined our finances! He earned his money, he gets to keep it! I earned mine, same deal! I paid for my stuff - clothes, hobbies, etc - and most of the bills, all food, household stuff, etc. He paid other stuff. It worked out fairly; he made a shit ton more money than I do. We *never* fought about money. I thought it was a fair arrangement. Although when we spit up, he became aware of just how much I was paying when he had to take over the bills I’d been taking care of.
I'm probably misunderstanding your post, but is there something wrong with women having standards in terms of salary or even being provided for? Asking as a guy. I think all of my female friends care about how much their potential partner earns. IMO It's just a factor for compatibility and expectation setting. I see people complain about it on Reddit but never IRL, but I'm in my 30s so idk. Maybe teenagers and early 20s dudes are super jaded about this stuff. Also don't think this is unique to the US, nor do I think Australia is immune to this type of discourse based on what I've seen in the internet.
There's a lot to unpack with it, though. First of all, many conversations about this are had in a purely hypothetical space, as if you could just choose how much your partner made. In that case, why not choose a lot? In a foreign language class I was taking they asked us to describe our ideal boyfriend or girlfriend as a way to practice adjectives, and *all* of the guys (compared with only most of the girls) included "rich". It wasn't anyone's most important thing, but if you're already making up a tall, thin, funny, good-natured woman or man, why not throw "rich" in there? The other factor is that income is often a proxy for other attractive traits. Intelligence, competitiveness, self-discipline, ability to get along with people, social status. Actually, status is probably the most important thing - dentists earn comparably to doctors and plumbers to lawyers, so if the gold-digging hypothesis were true, plumbers and dentists would be just as attractive partners as doctors and lawyers. But they're not, because money isn't as important as status.
I'm in agreement with you on all of that. I'm not surprised it's not a gender-specific trait too, and yeah when I think about it I've heard several male friends talk (in more hushed tones) about the financial status they expect of women they date. I address the proxy aspect in a comment further down this thread, and I actually meant to highlight status as a more accurate quality than wealth.
From my perspective- yeah, kinda. I mean, when I envision my future, I don’t envision buying a house or car with two people’s money. I know that would make things a lot easier, especially considering the state of the economy, but I’ve just never factored it into my long term plans. Obviously if I were to live with someone I’d expect we both pay the same amount (or a proportional amount to our income, if there’s a big discrepancy) for housing and bills and stuff, but when I think about the future I don’t just assume a partner with money is going to be part of it. I wouldn’t call it ‘standards’, I’d call it an expectation. A weird expectation, in my personal view.
Would you consider it a "weird expectation" that a partner can carry their own weight? Financial compatibility is a major part of overall compatibility. Someone happy to go into debt for frivolity is not going to be compatible with someone who's trying to save for early retirement by living off beans and rice. It may not be something you discuss on a first date but it's something to consider for those moving onto something more serious. I think the issue is that misogynists like to distort that into "no money no honey" and other such "witty tropes".
No, definitely not. Which makes me think the weirder part in my perception is the expectation of a partner. Maybe it’s because I generally don’t really date or I was raised by single parents or whatever. I just don’t expect a partner at any given time- although if I were to have one, I’d want them to contribute equally/proportionally, whichever makes more sense
u/Whole_Mechanic_8143 nailed it. Aside from the inevitability of some merging of financial goals further down in the relationship, I'd go further to say that financial status of a partner will probably play a role in compatibility early on. If a random woman makes 4x as much as a random man, chances are their ambition, attitudes toward life, hobbies, and lifestyles differ. Exceptions obviously exist, but people use heuristics to be selective in dating anyway. ETA: the last part might be controversial, but idk, I've heard it from the majority of my female friends. None of them are being selective in that regard for shallow purposes IMO, they're just being realistic. Your attitude is definitely healthy though. My girlfriend grew up in a single parent household too and she's communicated the importance of being self sufficient, which I'm completely supportive of, as well as equal contribution in terms of relationship duties (household work, etc) and, more implicitly, proportional contribution in terms of money spent on dates, rent, etc.
So we can get away from conjecture here's some actual statistics on the matter. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/09/20/americans-see-men-as-the-financial-providers-even-as-womens-contributions-grow/ https://www.marketwatch.com/story/many-women-say-they-wont-date-a-man-over-this-one-financial-issue-2017-04-07 There is definitely a cultural standard in the US that places a lot of value on one's ability to provide financially especially for men. About 71% of Americans believe that a man must be able to support a family financially in order to be a good partner, whereas only 32% say the same about women. Women are more likely to want to "date up" financially, though those who do are still a minority. About 22% of women say they wouldn't date someone who makes less than they do against about 4% of men who say the same.
A woman recently broke up with me literally because she cannot see me aspiring to be rich so. Idk man.
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Cheers mate, and fuck your huntsman spiders 😂 Reddit does NOT represent...wait, no, Reddit POSTERS do not represent American values. The responses, however, show how stupid Americans really are. They take the bait, hook, line, and sinker. And down vote you if you point out their lack of critical thinking. G'day mate!!
Yeah agreed, not like that in the UK either. Dates are always split. First date is usually just a few pints, and the chivalry is most fellas like to be the one to get the first round in. I've lived with a partner and we split rent and bills 50/50, but as he earnt a little more than I did he'd cover more of the treats. I did more of the housework and cooking. I'm not saying all of this is gender neutral, clearly not. But I've known a lot of men who weren't scared to tell me their opinion on gender relations and not one of them mentioned the money of it.
Dates aren't always split it depends on the couple. But generally I think most people either split bills or take turns in paying. I have met a few men who got offended when I suggested splitting though.
Yes most couples take turns, I meant for first dates specifically. Yes sometimes men insist on paying here, not personally had one be offended at me saying we will split it though.
You are being very pick me. What's the point of this post? To announce how much you're not a gold digger? Go brag on AITAH
I’m more trying to get a read on whether the phenomenon is a cultural difference (meaning it’s just abnormal to me) or just a weirdly specific internet thing (meaning it’s abnormal everywhere). I dunno, I think it’s interesting. Sorta like online anthropology
How old are you
I’m 23
So still pretty young then. In a grown up relationship, money matters.
Dude shut up you’re 14.
Lol, I wish, not a dude and very far from 14
Dudette, shut up, you’re 17 (lol sorry couldn’t resist haha)