The shitty thing is Bush Sr screwed the Kurds over in the Gulf War too.
Damn shame because they're magnificent fighters and some of the bravest people on the planet.
We've been breaking promises to them for a long time, I'm not aware of any Democrat president who has left them high and dry but after Bush Sr allowed them to get gassed by Saddam, and Trump just pulling all support and leaving them to fight Syria, Turkey and Russia by themselves, it probably wasn't as memorable.
I can speak intelligently on that, after leaving Iraq and the Kurds out to dry. It took a ton of work by American SF “green berets” to gain their trust they are bad ass fighters, loved working with them…to see this done to them again…it’s gut wrenching…there is no one group of people I would willingly more trust my life to.
I've only heard 2nd hand accounts or read and saw videos of their bravery and commitment to cause when fighting.
Maybe the closest I came to their culture was convoying to Erbil from Balad and the civilian trucks we escorted were forced into the right hand lane by Opels and tiny Toyota pickups, lol.
Kurds seemed deviod of fear playing chicken with Volvo semis, cant imagine their bravery with a weapon system.
I'm assuming you were a Green Beret or attached to a ODA element?
If so thank you for your service.
I agree, the comfort of knowing we have solid allies in countries that experience turbulent times and chaos is beyond measure.
These folks have agreed to help our cause and most importantly our military members with an oath signed in blood, we have to respect them and honor our agreements.
Be safe and I wish you the best.
there was no grift opportunity for traitor trump, so just like everything he touches or could have been for the betterment of our World -he fucked that up as well!
Zelenskyy has to know that things could go very south for Ukraine should a Republican win in 2024. Hell, I'd be shocked if our NATO allies don't have contingency plans should a pro-Russian candidate become President of the United States.
Yes, Erdogan gave Trump a call, warning him to get Americans out. And that’s what Trump did, immediately, completely ignoring what military was there for AND that we had Kurds as allies.
That’s what a moron with no understanding does. Who apparently didn’t want to check with Pentagon. Who doesn’t actually care about the middle east.
He just ran.
Turkey intercepted a phone call between Kushner and the Saudis that green lighted the killing of Jamaal Koshigi on Turkish soil, at the consulate.
Erdogan leveraged that intercept to get Trump to pull out of Syria and ratfuck the Kurds.
Recall that this action prompted SoD James Mattis immediate resignation in protest.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/11/4/1897048/-REPORT-Kushner-OK-d-Khashoggi-Arrest-Turkey-Heard-Call-Blackmailed-Trump-over-Syrian-Troops
It’s not about being a moron (although he is a moron) it’s about being compromised. Erdogan had long been delaying NATO and the EU to aids putin and trump is a putin sock rag so of course i think there has been a huge plan in place for a while to try to divide and conquer the US from the inside and help putin get what he wants. Trump has been a plant from day one. His personality disorders and psych issues have kept him from completely dismantling us yet though he got close and could still finish the job before he is convicted. We will see but I’m not confident in the fact that scumbags don’t control everything and we might be screwed
That was the last nail in the coffin for Trump in my eyes. Those Kurds helped us out a lot in Iraq. It was no small betrayal of keeping the faith with us troops and our allies.
The details make this much worse.
Prior to the events in October 2019, the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) took several steps to address Turkey's concerns and ease tensions along the Turkey-Syria border.
In August 2019, the United States and Turkey reached an agreement to set up a security mechanism in northern Syria, which aimed to address Turkish security concerns and prevent a potential Turkish military operation. As part of this agreement, the SDF dismantled their defensive positions and withdrew heavy weapons from certain areas near the border.
And only after the Kurds dismantled their defense, Trump gave the Greenlight. What a president.
The man tried to dismantle NATO...willing to bet he has documents to sell to such clients like Iran, China, North Korea, and Russia...on information regarding our allies.
Oh America, when will the so-called justice system actually DO something... definitely not in my lifetime.
The “two tier” justice system that allows a treasonous shit bag who has committed crimes all his life to obstruct Justice for 18 months and then not even arraign him like any other man. Fuck Trump!
Trump set the timeline, Trump released the Taliban cadre without consulting the government, the government collapsed, the army dissolved, the US military led by their commanders threw together the plan and did the best they could. Biden approved it. Trump's hare-brained impulsive decisions, the resurgent Taliban, the collapse of the government and the army, and the complete lack of a will to resist a few thousand Taliban by millions of Afghans was responsible for the fiasco. Putting the blame on him is really childish. The final scene was the inevitable result of a 20 year fiasco.
You’d think with all his time in government Biden could have fixed it, but the incompetence is strong with that one. Leaving Americans behind in a war zone, shows how much he cares for his own people
Encouraging minorities to rise up with our assistance and then abandoning them is kind of a U.S. signature move.
- Mexican rebels in the 19th cen.
- Hmong people in Vietnam
- Kurds in 1990s
- Shiite/marsh Arabs in the 1990s
- Kurds again in the 21st cen
- women and liberals in Afghanistan
I remember reading Christopher Hitchens recounts of his travels and reading about how they were pulling bodies out of mass graves for a very long time. What an absolutely horrible events/series if events. I couldnt imagine being there myself, gut renching odors and horrific scenes all muddled up with pure anguish for an entire group of people killed for nothing.
Biden excluded the Afghan government from a negotiated deal with the Taliban to release 5,000 Taliban fighters and then abandon the Afghans and reneg on any and all commitments we made to the terps and other allies we had there?
Biden did that?
Is this on Bizarro Afghanistan or the real one because one guy did exactly that, and it happened in 2020. Biden was inaugurated in 2021.
Calling this an American embarrassment is a gross understatement. We lost honor and credibility with allies. The Kurds lost lives. Sometimes It just seems so freakin futile to try and be an upright, honest person in this life. We're raised by our parents (hopefully) to value honesty and to esteem certain morals; Life, liberty, freedom, justice, honor, virtue.. and then we're set loose in a world that survives by double dealing, backdoor negotiations, and backstabbing. Where's our soul.. our decency.. our humanity? So frustrating to try and be an honorable sort when the world seems to revolve around the antithesis of that which is honorable. 😔
I was in Erbil for work when this happened. It was wild to watch everyone roll in to the base. The military is setup to follow orders without question. They got the call to go and fucking dipped. Someone on high may have information you don’t. It was about a week before people started questioning anything it seemed. It was a logistical nightmare with some seriously hairy moments. It was so hard to watch the Russian Wagner soldiers takeover our old bases and play with our shit that got left. The only silver lining was the dick spray painted on the walls left by some of the boys as they rolled out. The whole thing seemed super odd as it was happening. Then to your point the Kurds I interacted with were some of the nicest and wonderful people. It broke my heart to feel like we weren’t holding up our end of the bargain. Watching them try to hold those prisons was terrible. I personally felt we could do better than we did.
[удалено]
The shitty thing is Bush Sr screwed the Kurds over in the Gulf War too. Damn shame because they're magnificent fighters and some of the bravest people on the planet.
Yeah. Fucking over the Kurds is a bipartisan tradition and a lasting stain on America’s nat’l honor.
We've been breaking promises to them for a long time, I'm not aware of any Democrat president who has left them high and dry but after Bush Sr allowed them to get gassed by Saddam, and Trump just pulling all support and leaving them to fight Syria, Turkey and Russia by themselves, it probably wasn't as memorable.
>"bipartisan" The hell it is. It's always been republicans who have fucked over the Kurds.
I can speak intelligently on that, after leaving Iraq and the Kurds out to dry. It took a ton of work by American SF “green berets” to gain their trust they are bad ass fighters, loved working with them…to see this done to them again…it’s gut wrenching…there is no one group of people I would willingly more trust my life to.
I've only heard 2nd hand accounts or read and saw videos of their bravery and commitment to cause when fighting. Maybe the closest I came to their culture was convoying to Erbil from Balad and the civilian trucks we escorted were forced into the right hand lane by Opels and tiny Toyota pickups, lol. Kurds seemed deviod of fear playing chicken with Volvo semis, cant imagine their bravery with a weapon system. I'm assuming you were a Green Beret or attached to a ODA element? If so thank you for your service.
Yes in command, and still. Thank you for your service as well, we need to tell their stories of why is important stick with these “indigenous” forces.
I agree, the comfort of knowing we have solid allies in countries that experience turbulent times and chaos is beyond measure. These folks have agreed to help our cause and most importantly our military members with an oath signed in blood, we have to respect them and honor our agreements. Be safe and I wish you the best.
To be fair, leaving any non Israel ally in the Middle East to hang is a long standing US tradition.
there was no grift opportunity for traitor trump, so just like everything he touches or could have been for the betterment of our World -he fucked that up as well!
The US is still in Syria helping the Kurds tho?
Erdogan won in a rigged election
Elon helped him win, he's a free speech absolutist until it's the truth.
Why anyone trusts the US is beyond me. Hell even Ukraine should be careful.
Zelenskyy has to know that things could go very south for Ukraine should a Republican win in 2024. Hell, I'd be shocked if our NATO allies don't have contingency plans should a pro-Russian candidate become President of the United States.
Our politics are a see-saw. Friends one administration and enemies the next
Yes, Erdogan gave Trump a call, warning him to get Americans out. And that’s what Trump did, immediately, completely ignoring what military was there for AND that we had Kurds as allies. That’s what a moron with no understanding does. Who apparently didn’t want to check with Pentagon. Who doesn’t actually care about the middle east. He just ran.
Turkey intercepted a phone call between Kushner and the Saudis that green lighted the killing of Jamaal Koshigi on Turkish soil, at the consulate. Erdogan leveraged that intercept to get Trump to pull out of Syria and ratfuck the Kurds. Recall that this action prompted SoD James Mattis immediate resignation in protest. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/11/4/1897048/-REPORT-Kushner-OK-d-Khashoggi-Arrest-Turkey-Heard-Call-Blackmailed-Trump-over-Syrian-Troops
It’s not about being a moron (although he is a moron) it’s about being compromised. Erdogan had long been delaying NATO and the EU to aids putin and trump is a putin sock rag so of course i think there has been a huge plan in place for a while to try to divide and conquer the US from the inside and help putin get what he wants. Trump has been a plant from day one. His personality disorders and psych issues have kept him from completely dismantling us yet though he got close and could still finish the job before he is convicted. We will see but I’m not confident in the fact that scumbags don’t control everything and we might be screwed
Back in my day, it was simply called being a chickenshit.
Worked with them. They were the most can do people. No inshallah. It got done, right and on time.
As a kurd, i appreciate this ❤️
Thanks for the reminder.....
That was the last nail in the coffin for Trump in my eyes. Those Kurds helped us out a lot in Iraq. It was no small betrayal of keeping the faith with us troops and our allies.
The Kurds were sold out and sacrificed by the Trump adminoistration. Trump was Erdogan's hachet man.
He will also do this to his attorneys….and whomever else he can blame so he doesn’t go to jail…
The warning of the death by a thousand cuts. A thousand throats were cut and one was yours.
I don't. I do remember. F****** shameful.
The details make this much worse. Prior to the events in October 2019, the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) took several steps to address Turkey's concerns and ease tensions along the Turkey-Syria border. In August 2019, the United States and Turkey reached an agreement to set up a security mechanism in northern Syria, which aimed to address Turkish security concerns and prevent a potential Turkish military operation. As part of this agreement, the SDF dismantled their defensive positions and withdrew heavy weapons from certain areas near the border. And only after the Kurds dismantled their defense, Trump gave the Greenlight. What a president.
The Kurds are our loyal allies unlike Erdogan.
This is how we treat our loyal allies. We leave them to die.
The man tried to dismantle NATO...willing to bet he has documents to sell to such clients like Iran, China, North Korea, and Russia...on information regarding our allies. Oh America, when will the so-called justice system actually DO something... definitely not in my lifetime.
The “two tier” justice system that allows a treasonous shit bag who has committed crimes all his life to obstruct Justice for 18 months and then not even arraign him like any other man. Fuck Trump!
I have NEVER forgotten this.
Never forget the Americans Biden left to die in Afghanistan
Never forget how trump set all that up and negotiated with terrorists. And released 5000 prisoners. One of which is now the leader of Afghanistan.
Pepperidge farm remembers.
Trump set the timeline, Trump released the Taliban cadre without consulting the government, the government collapsed, the army dissolved, the US military led by their commanders threw together the plan and did the best they could. Biden approved it. Trump's hare-brained impulsive decisions, the resurgent Taliban, the collapse of the government and the army, and the complete lack of a will to resist a few thousand Taliban by millions of Afghans was responsible for the fiasco. Putting the blame on him is really childish. The final scene was the inevitable result of a 20 year fiasco.
You’d think with all his time in government Biden could have fixed it, but the incompetence is strong with that one. Leaving Americans behind in a war zone, shows how much he cares for his own people
war crime
Encouraging minorities to rise up with our assistance and then abandoning them is kind of a U.S. signature move. - Mexican rebels in the 19th cen. - Hmong people in Vietnam - Kurds in 1990s - Shiite/marsh Arabs in the 1990s - Kurds again in the 21st cen - women and liberals in Afghanistan
I remember reading Christopher Hitchens recounts of his travels and reading about how they were pulling bodies out of mass graves for a very long time. What an absolutely horrible events/series if events. I couldnt imagine being there myself, gut renching odors and horrific scenes all muddled up with pure anguish for an entire group of people killed for nothing.
Don’t forget how Biden left Afghanistan and then armed the taliban.
Biden excluded the Afghan government from a negotiated deal with the Taliban to release 5,000 Taliban fighters and then abandon the Afghans and reneg on any and all commitments we made to the terps and other allies we had there? Biden did that? Is this on Bizarro Afghanistan or the real one because one guy did exactly that, and it happened in 2020. Biden was inaugurated in 2021.
Should he have stuck to the original timeline and rushed it more by 5 months?
Calling this an American embarrassment is a gross understatement. We lost honor and credibility with allies. The Kurds lost lives. Sometimes It just seems so freakin futile to try and be an upright, honest person in this life. We're raised by our parents (hopefully) to value honesty and to esteem certain morals; Life, liberty, freedom, justice, honor, virtue.. and then we're set loose in a world that survives by double dealing, backdoor negotiations, and backstabbing. Where's our soul.. our decency.. our humanity? So frustrating to try and be an honorable sort when the world seems to revolve around the antithesis of that which is honorable. 😔
I was in Erbil for work when this happened. It was wild to watch everyone roll in to the base. The military is setup to follow orders without question. They got the call to go and fucking dipped. Someone on high may have information you don’t. It was about a week before people started questioning anything it seemed. It was a logistical nightmare with some seriously hairy moments. It was so hard to watch the Russian Wagner soldiers takeover our old bases and play with our shit that got left. The only silver lining was the dick spray painted on the walls left by some of the boys as they rolled out. The whole thing seemed super odd as it was happening. Then to your point the Kurds I interacted with were some of the nicest and wonderful people. It broke my heart to feel like we weren’t holding up our end of the bargain. Watching them try to hold those prisons was terrible. I personally felt we could do better than we did.
I wasn’t surprised by this at all. Considering trump is good with negotiating with terrorists over governments.
The challenge is finding a President that didn't fuck over the Kurds, not one who did.
Thank you for not forgetting us 🙏🏻
Man why is the US so shitty towards their allies. The only ally the really stick up for is Israel.