Not just evangelicals, Republicans are viewed more negatively. Prosperity theology. Christian Nationalism.
Does it matter? No. The right is utterly insular. They think they are doing God's work. Who doesn't love people doing God's work.
Trump's greatest feat of legerdemain is convincing the religious right that a serial philander, rapist, liar and cheat is the second coming. Trump is evil. Evil has the support of the religious right. These poor simps have sacrificed their morals to support a person that has never made a self-less sacrifice in his life. These people have turned their backs on their principles to annoint an unprincipled thug as their new lode star.
It used to be that the road to hell was paved with good intentions. For the religious right, the road to hell is paved with their cast off morals and the stones they would normally cast at a rapist.
I suppose they could always take it up with the big guy when they meet him. But they won't.
Because:
Option A: the source material they haven't bothered reading makes it clear they have another destination to look forward to.
Or...
Option B: The big guy doesn't exist.
Option C: The big guy is a kid running a simulation for a class, and kinda got bored with it. As soon as he is done going to the bathroom this whole thing gets shut off. Luckily we run at 4.2069x10\^24 speed when he is not in interactive mode.
>Prosperity is a blessing
Their logic, like many of their beliefs, is based on a false premise.
Jesus was pretty clear that prosperity is often a curse that interferes with a person's relationship to God. But, of course, American evangelicals don't really have much use for the words of Jesus.
All they stand for now is taking things away from regular people. They took a womanâs right to choose. They have their sights set on gay marriage and no fault divorce. The southern baptists just came out against IVF for fuckâs sake. What a miserable bunch of mopes.
No wonder theyâre against education and for child marriage. They are afraid that anybody with critical thinking skills will not want to have anything to do with them.
Trump is the byproduct, not the cause> ironically, if anything trump is a doing a great job of pointing out how hypocritical these ppl have always been. Trump doesn't believe this shit, he's not a christian, and he doesn't like any of these poor dumb mother fuckers. He's Still a piece of shit, but he didn't make Christianity bad. They support dogshit politicians as a practice. Trump is far from the first.
I grew up in a batshit fundamentalist religious home, and every word here resonates.
The number of people that I was instructed to respect and look up to, and who ultimately turned out to have feet of clay is absolutely mindbending.
Their unwavering support for not only the Golden (Showers) Calf, but also of outright, brutal, theocratic government is unbiblical as fuck. (Why? See: [Why Theocracy Is Terrible](https://www.russellmoore.com/2018/01/08/why-theocracy-is-terrible/), by Russell Moore, ex-Editor in Chief of Christianity Today and is the author of the book Losing Our Religion: An Altar Call for Evangelical America. In a nutshell, it attempts to usurp the authority of Jesus Christ.)
*âThe problem here is that this relationship between the evangelical leadership and the Republican Party has become what Christians call a covenant.*
*Over the last 70 years, Christian theology has been steadily replaced, within the evangelical world, by Republican or "conservative" ideology. I noticed this in my time at an evangelical seminary and during my years in ministry, whenever political discussion would go beyond abortion and gay rights. When the conversation turned towards gun rights, immigration, taxing the wealthy, education or health care, the tenets of Christian theology disappeared behind Republican talking points.â*
([Source](https://www.salon.com/2021/07/17/how-evangelicals-abandoned-christianity--and-became-conservatives-instead-3/))
This next level of idolatry is really something to behold. Iâm watching pastors and preachers caught up in it, absolutely convinced of their own righteousness while being subsumed into the very things they were taught to be on the lookout against.
This thread makes me happy.
I have never in my life time, at 48 years old and somebody who studied skepticism and a critical thought, never wanted anything more than to shed the gracious and ploying bullshit of civility in wanting to truly enjoy the destruction of religion and their endless human subjugation.
That Trump might not only destroy the GOP if he doesn't destroy American democracy first, that is a blessing, but that if Trump and his manic actions with people that love him because they believe in magical thinking without any objective truth or reality or data, are completely destroyed? The Christianity could be completely destroyed over time because we finally had someone exposed just how brutally stupid moron fuckheads are to think some space pixie is mandating bone cancer in children from somewhere in the universe?
This is some of the stupidest stuff, and that the majority of our country is governed by people trying to use reasoning when they have no basis in understanding how to do that.
Okay now I'm just sick of this shit. End this. Start over
It is crazy that an christian thinks Trump is religious. Trump is not religious at all, does not believe in God or church. Â
On top of that he has broken almost all of the commandments. He cheated on 3 wives. Â
Any Christian that votes for Trump will be going to hell. Â
Modern Christianity seems to have forgotten a lot about their religion. Sophie put it best in Da Vinci Code:
âYour God doesnât forgive murderers. He burns them!â
I was listening to a very interesting former evangelical talk about this. Awhile back the movement adopted the â7 mountainsâ concept. The seven areas that the movement believe influence society and that they seek to influence are family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government.
They see Trump as having mastered business and media, so thatâs 2/7 mountains already. So why not use him to tame the government one for them, too?
And so they convince themselves god chose this âflawed warrior.â They literally claim the Lord spoke to them (their leaders) and chose Trump. So if heâs endorsed by the big man then whatever he does has been okayed. Thereâs no level of twisted thatâs too far.
It was bad enough when the preachers had to travel the countryside with their circus tent revivals to conduct their grift. Then they got on the radio and TV and could really broaden their base. They have somehow convinced millions to do the opposite of Jesus's words and celebrate wealth in the goal of enriching themselves.
My dad is an evangelical pastor. When I told him my ethic was "treat others the way you want to be treated," he called me a secular humanist.
These people couldn't recognize Jesus if he stood in front of them
Claiming to be a Christian and actually being one are two very different things.
Jimmy Carter = Christian
Anyone following Diaper Don = not a Christian
That's the thing that really irks me. I was raised in a Baptist church, and our pastor actually practiced what he preached. We were taught the evils of coveting/ greed and were taught there's over 100 Bible verses that explicitly ban wealthy people from heaven.
I'm atheist now, but I get a kick out of the Osteens and the elites forcing faith in the rest of us while they themselves are ineligible for heaven.
Faith, particularly evangelicals it's very much steeped in cultural identity. Travel most of the rust belt and the south and you'll find these places dotted with churches and places of worship everywhere, it's something the community does and uses it as cultural barometer for how assimilated you are into the community.
But like others have said, it has gone off the rails with it's conservative militancy , mostly field by decades long right wing media..
Would not surprise me in the slightest. You drive through the rural south youâll pass a half dozen churches easy before you see a grocery store. And usually thatâs just a gas station quick stop.
[McDonald's: More Influence Than Christianity? - Phil Cooke](https://www.philcooke.com/mcdonalds-more-influence-than-christianity/#:~:text=David%20mentioned%20that%20according%20to,little%20influence%20in%20our%20culture%3F)
> most of the rust belt and the south
And the majority of evangelical churches in the Rust Belt were started to accommodate transplanted Southerners who moved there looking for jobs during the Depression and post-WW2.
Yep. I regret not getting my piece of the money pie from idiots who believe in talking snakes. It turns out, to nobody's surprise, that we atheists have more morals than those dunces.
Provided itâs all real and we will all be judged one day I would love to be there when the osteens, and the Benny Hinnâs show up for their time before the book of knowledge. It would be worth my own hell bound lifestyle to see the abject rejection on their faces knowing their comfort and position were only in the worldly bodies and not in their spiritual cores
Itâs easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven.
But the church I used to go to said they meant some valley somewhere that was called âThe Eye of a Needleâ.
I called bullshit, left the church, started thinking for myself and never looked back. Except to chuckle now and then at their hypocrisy.
Yep, I grew up in the era of Oral Roberts. Even as a young boy, I was very skeptical of a man portending to "heal" people by merely placing his hands on them and reciting some contrived ritual, usually in a circus tent revival.
Become...?
âWhenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel.â
â Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
Well... they're not all bad...
In 2018, Pastor Dave Barnhart of the Saint Junia United Methodist Church in Birmingham, Alabama posted this message to Facebook:
âThe unbornâ are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they donât resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they donât ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they donât need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they donât bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. Itâs almost as if, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe.
Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.
Wow! I am now agnostic/humanist after being raised in a very evangelical family. It took me 40 years to break free. I always felt this. I still do. I still have ties to very entrenched family members and my brother is a fence sitting pastor. I am sending this to him because he is very anti Trumpism and really concerned about the state of Christianity.
If Christ came back, they literally would crucify him again. Modern day Christians would not be receptive to a brown-skinned man who looks like a hippie coming to them and telling them to give up their worldy possessions and dedicate their lives to helping the poor, sick, and unfortunate.
This is the TRUTH I wish we could make all of them stop and consider. Jesus' life was a life of love. The Trump Christians are living a life of fear and anger. Jesus would be so sad.
Honestly I find it funny now when they try to fearmonger people with threats of going to Hell. If there is actually a Heaven or Hell, these so-called Christians going to be in for a very rude awakening when God calls them out on their life of hypocrisy.
This is why modern Christians don't follow Jesus. They follow Paul. They love the Pharisee inspired legalism!
(This brings me to the fact that Jesus got Twilight Zoned. Imagine it's all true. He's God in human form. But he preached a socialist message and hated one group in particular: Pharisees. He hated everything about them from their rules, to their attitude, to their wealth. One thing leads to another and Jesus is killed, resurrected, and then he busts a move off the planet vowing to come back later on. In the meantime, a former member of the group that Jesus hated the most, the Pharisees, ends up wrangling control of Jesus' message and it ends up becoming the backbone of Christian theology. By the sheer number of books in the Bible, Paul is the main character, not Jesus. This is fine if it's all just mythology to begin with but we're starting with the idea that Jesus really is God. It turns out, it's not Jesus' words that built the Holy Roman Empire, it was Paul's. Paul has always been the dominant figure for the overwhelming majority of Christians, Catholic or otherwise. Do we think Jesus would be burning "witches"? No. But the Pharisees would have. (As a point of fact, "hunting witches" was a way to root out reformers to the church and a way for the church to eliminate perceived threats to its dominance.) Do we think Jesus would be raising money in a megachurch Sunday after Sunday? Of course not. He drove the money changers out of the church. But Paul would. So God ultimately got Twilight Zoned. He clearly got his message out but it is overshadowed time and time again by Paul causing most Christians to miss the point entirely.)
It never was. I remember when I left the faith, that was a large part of why. I looked around at the people around me and said to myself "This is what being a state of grace looks like? This is what it means to have Jesus in your heart? Are these the people I will have to spend time with in the Kingdom of Heaven?" And the clergy were among the worst.
There are very few people that I have met who actually hold up to what Jesus taught, and a great many of those few aren't even Christian. Christ was very clear about who was and was not accepted by him in Matthew 25:31-46, and almost none of the people I met in church would be swiped right.
At least 40% of the folks in any American church are just the families of insurance and car salesmen looking for suckers. Include home remodelers, plumbers, electricians, morticians, etc. My religious MIL discovered that an insurance salesman attending her church was a member of two other churches. I bet he had a comfortable lifestyle, other than the fun being sucked out of every Sunday.
Absolutely this! If I could base myself and shed any semblance of ethics I have, I would join the largest mega church in town in order to boost my business. Unfortunately, I have ethics and self respect, so no. Iâll build my business the hard way.
Christians have become cringe as they no longer practice Christianity (and have always been mostly not good at it).
âThe Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried â.
-GK Chesterton
These evangelicals are talking the talk but not walking the walk.
Where there is no love there is no Christianity.
To be fair, Christianity and Catholicism before that have been used by people to get rich and oppress others for hundreds, if not more than a thousand years at this point. Just look at all of the stuff that went on with the Crusades and the Catholic church enriching itself during the middle ages. It's not like this is anything new, it's just the latest version of the same old story.
Absolutely correct. Itâs nothing like he taught. As a matter of fact these people are those that made him physically angry overturning tables in the temple because they were using his fatherâs house to get gain. These are also , like the Pharisees, those he called hypocrites for insisting on specific behaviors, then turning around and practicing the exact opposite. Greed, lust, lying, etc.
Never was. Religion adapts to meet the wants of the people. If people want to hear white supremacy hate speech then thatâs the church theyâll attend. Fox News is simply fanning the flames of schisms. Religious belief is not a hard and fast philosophical argument. The definition of God is obscure and different so that each person can put their wants and needs into it (e.g. an incel suicide bomber wants 72 virgins). If a religious schism doesnât adapt and remain popular then its r number drops below 1 and it dies out.
I grew up surrounded by evangelicals and sadly I can say without doubt that they have not changed much. The only thing that Donald Trump changed is it made them feel more comfortable spewing their hateful nonsense in public.
As usual, trump brings out the lowest most disgusting members of our society. These "Christians" are the same ones that don't want to give out free school lunches to children, love their guns more than their neighbors and think that a simple trip to church to "ask for forgiveness" is all they need to absolve them of their bad behavior. American "Christians" are "America's Taliban".
Not exactly. Once upon a time, evangelicals used to preach against getting involved in politics as they believed it had a corrupting influence. They didn't even vote... republicans saw this and saw an untapped voter base. They pretty much started the entire anti-abortion movement just to give evangelicals an issue to care about so they would start voting republican. And it worked... and it turns out that the old evangelical pastors were right; politics corrupted their religion to the point where they are compromising their own beliefs to support the most sinful grifters
I remember the 80's during Satanic Panic, my cousins talked non-stop about the so-called coming antichrist.
He was supposed to be a wealthy man, outside of politics who would somehow rise to power. His speech was to astound, shock and deceive many with his charisma. Most important, he would deceive believers.
Why don't my cousins see it? They spent the last 40years looking for him, and yet, he's right there.
Not that I believe any of it.
Oh, I forgot, He's supposed to glorify himself above all else, as if he was God.
I should add that this is my interpretation, of their interpretation, of their pastor's interpretation and so on.
They talked about it while burning vinyl records because of 'backward messages'. Oddly, the smell of those records burning was way worse for me than listening to them.
You would have thought the golden Trump idol at the 2021 CPAC was a clue.
I haven't been a god-botherer in many a long year, but even I can see that's got a whole Second Commandment vibe going on.
Ah well see thatâs because Obama was the Antichrist, because he won an election, was super charismatic, and above all is black.
That and the Antichrist is gonna fool everyone. But not them. Obviously.
Anyways the real issue here is right-wing evangelical brainrot, and tribalism. Much of this - and the invention and evolution of American white supremacy - dates back to and is closely intertwined with the history of slavery in the antebellum period, and post civil war, as religion, politics / single party tribalism, and slavery white supremacy all developed and gelled together in the deep south to, first, psychologically and socially defend the institution of slavery, and then later to fight against reconstruction amd racial equality when the south fought a war / attempted independence movement over that and lost.
Originally of course that was just the deep south.
The northern *anti* slavery movement was built almost entirely on (left wing) christian evangelism, built almost exclusively on deep held christian (and liberal / progressive) principles, and thereâs a deep irony in that thereâs a lot of rural far right folks from the upper midwest (and states like west virginia and kentucky) that are descended from a long line of *progressive*, left-wing folks.
Anyways. US evangelism has always been chock full of grifters and snake oil salesmen. Particularly from the late 19th century onwards.
Religion and politics in the deep south was always super fucked (and arguably is damn near identical *now* in many states to what it was in the 1860s, just with the political parties switched). The politicization of the nationwide evangelical base - and turn rightwards - happened in the 80s though, and the rest as we say is history.Â
Obviously once you mix religion and politics it irrevocably corrupts both. Or at least when right wing politics is concerned.
I should probably note here that I really donât mean to imply that all modern republicans - or their evangelical base - are a bunch of racists / white supremacists.
The funny thing about tribalism - and intergenerational in group / out group politics - is that the actual values and beliefs can change drastically from one generation to the next, while the political / tribal infrastructure stays largely the same.Â
Racism and anti-integrationism is basically - and quite literally - what forged the beginnings of the modern religious right in the 50s and 60s. That generationâs kids (ie the baby boomers and to a certain extent the silents) though were far more open minded, and, genuinely, tended as a whole to not really give a shit about the racial politics of their parents and grandparents. Fast forward to present and weâre several generations further removed from that.
All of this has basically resulted in the situation where republicans - and the religious right - genuinely *hates* democrats and progressives (ie the old 1860s republican party) for reasons that they cannot articulate. Evangelical christianity is inextricably bound up with social and economic conservatism - and single-party politics - for reasons that also canât be articulated.
The good, god-fearing white christians will all vote for one political political party across the board, and one party only. This party is the party that does *not* include the black baptists, who also vote as a block, albeit for far more legit / existential and historic reasons - for reasons that are surely just incidental.
Part of this is legitimately racism. Particularly in LA / GA et al. The bigger part of this though is just flat out tribalism - and a tribe that basically forgot / doesnât particularly understand (or want to understand) its own history.
Democrats / the left / big city urbanites arenât just the political opposition, theyâre *evil*. Due to a half-remembered grudge (or more accurately, two grudges), that involve
1) in the 1950s, the US federal govt forced public school integration - and shut down white-only christian private schools that were built as a workaround to maintain segregation
2) lost causeism
Anyways. Because Democrats (note: formerly republicans / whichever party has black people in it and was fighting for civil rights, equality, and left wing christian (and liberal) values) are evil, and our entire worldview is simplistic, black and white, and fed to us by literal con men and snake oil salesmen under the permissive freedoms of the 1st ammendment (and the protestant reformation - and the general history and founding of the US as a refuge for, among other things, a mentally ill cult of brits who wanted to build their own *true christian* utopia free from the satanic influences of theater and music. And after mind you they had participated in and lost a civil war attempting to, among otheir things, force their own batshit beliefs onto everyone else in england)
Anyways point being the US was built by religious crazies, has always been full of religious crazies, and unfortunately one of our two political parties is built on a demographic (and community) of people who regularly (and itentionally) get taken advantage of by con men, and vote for a tribal political party of con men / con women that regularly and systemically takes advantage of them.
The fact that theyâve all fallen for Trump shouldnât be remotely surprising⌠because duh, heâs a fairly successful well recognized tv personality and con artist. Nor should them trying their own supposed religious values and doctrine in knots, since again this has been going on in the deep south for the last 200+ years, and is inevitably what happens when you blend together church and state into a single uniparty group-think polity. That consists of you and everyone in your church group as the good god-fearing chosen people, and everyone outside of it (and in particular the godless liberals and progressives) are evil, and child molestors, and whatever else you want to throw at the wall.
The problem to be clear is NOT Trump, itâs the base that is in not one but *multiple* active self-reinforcing cults, incl the modern republican party, fox news / talk radio, conspiracy theories, âchristianâ dreck, and ofc the biggest lie - an unironic belief / faith in christian gospel, coupled with an inability to critically read the bible *and* lifelong grooming to trust local community / family / church authority figures and never suspect ulterior motives - that primes these people for all of the above.
And nevermind ofc that there are obviously a ton - or hell most - people who are well aware that this is all bullshit, but are in on it to take advantage of their more gullible community members / congregations / friends / family members / spouses / et al.
- Although it remains to be seen how much support presumptive GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump will receive from independents and swing voters in the November election, he continues to be extremely popular with his hardcore MAGA base. And a key part of that base is far-right white evangelicals.
- Trump is by no means universally loved within Christianity, and he has his share of detractors who identify as Catholic or Mainline Protestant.
But his bond with white evangelical voters is as strong in 2024 as it was in 2020.
In a June 17 column, the Washington Post's Shadi Hamid laments that Trump's alliance with white evangelicals is giving many voters a "negative" opinion of Christianity.
"Despite an effort to overthrow an election and a bevy of criminal charges," Hamid explains, "Donald Trump has managed to solidify and even expand his support among core demographicsâŚ. The voters most loyal to the former president are white evangelicals. More than 80 percent backed him in the 2020 elections."
"Evangelical," Hamid emphasizes, has become both a political identity and a religious identity â and the "unsettling" result will be "more intense political polarization around religion."
Hamid explains, "Evangelicalism, in short, has become about shared political convictionsâŚ. Now that white evangelicals are so disproportionally and unapologetically Trump-supporting, the share of Democrats who view Christianity negatively is likely to remain high or perhaps even increase."
I'd have to imagine it's not just Democrats at this point, I'm sure even the less extreme and less religious Republican party members are being pushed away as well.
No, American Evangelical Christians don't get of that easy, they have been terrible for decades, they have been trying to ruin America with lies and they've found a champion in Trump to do that, but they are scum and have been scum for a very long time, if not always. Trump has merely highlighted what it means to be an Evangelical Christian in America IE. ignorant, bigoted, reality denying scum.
Exactly. This is what no one is getting. They all think they evangelicals are being hypocritical for supporting Trump. He advanced their agenda. He could be a literal p\*do rapist and it wouldn't matter to them as long as the courts get stacked while the GOP in congress cripples the federal government from passing protective laws.
Country Club Christians.
They hang out in the clubhouse once a week. Or make the yearly pilgrimage around Christmas time.
They use their connections to make deals.
They use membership as a way to distinguish themselves and exclude âundesirablesâ.
Thatâs as far as most of them take it.
*The idea of evangelicals who donât go to church was once unusual. Now, it is surprisingly common. In 2008, only 16 percent of evangelicals said they never or seldom attended church. By 2020, 27 percent did.*
So, on top of the growing number of maniac preachers, now we've got these religious nuts forming their core values not from the bible, but from MAGA media fearmongers and whoever else seems to align with what they want to believe.
Trump gives all of us (except his MAGA cult) a negative view of everything. I wish he would go away. Off to Kennedy Space Station, board one of Musk's rockets to infect another planet- preferably Uranus where his head is located.
Well, with Project 2025, America is going to pretty much be a theocracy led by these people if they get their guy in office, so get comfy. Vote like your religious freedom depends on it. Because it does.
Iâve thought a lot about out this. Iâm a Christian, but not sure Iâd wear that flag around in todayâs climate, afraid someone will think Iâm Maga. Theyâre not drawing people to their religion, theyâre chasing them away
I'm so angry about them trying to use *our* flag. I'm going full Martha-Ann- gonna fly an American flag,a Pride flag, and a Rhode Island flag, cuz I'm tribal like that.
Want a Florida flag?
I'm not using it! Oh, and I have more rights to it than these fat, domestic, albino, ancient-ass migrants that won't stop flooding this state!
True facts.
And threatening retribution if you don't vote for him. How's that for an election plan?! Hey vote for me, else I'll come FOR YOU after I'm elected.
Dobson supports Trump. He has claimed that character doesn't matter he wanted a strong Commander in Chief.
Instead, he gave a generation the worst role model imaginable.
I would like to ask Dobson what Trump character traits would he like young people to adopt?
Trump's character isn't the point. The reason evangelicals like Dobson adore him is because he can force their agenda through via the courts. They realized how few checks we have when a court is out of control. He is the key to them being in power. Trump's appointments, not just at the SCOTUS, will wreak havoc on our rights for generations.
Evangelical Christians have lost all credibility in my mind by endorsing Trump. They rationalize it by saying that King David was used by zgod even though he was an unrighteous man and likewise with Trump. This is very uncompelling to me and I see it as a simplistic ends justifies the means ethical argument with is fallacious.
They think trump is their way to take total control of the U.S. Their goal is to legally mandate their religious beliefs, forcing every one of us to be evangelical Christians. The very idea of freedom of religion is anathema to them. And I think they would enthusiastically execute anyone who dares to disagree with them.
And say they hypothetically succeed in eliminating all the non believers and followers of different gods, by conversion or other means, that's the point at which they turn on each other.
The hate doesn't end. It just changes targets.
That, along with a bogus conversion narrative cooked up by Paula White and James Dobson, soured me on Trump and the evangelical side of Christianity for good.
I havenât been back to my Evangelical church since 2016. I have a very negative opinion of them. Founding fathers knew what they were talking about when they set things up separate from the church. Jesus says to let Ceasar be Ceasar. Meaning government is going to do what the government is going to do. Thatâs not our business. We have bigger fish to fry.
You are absolutely correct. There are several passages in the bible that support the idea of seperation of church and state. Give unto Caesar that which is Caesars is just one of them, and it quite literally means to pay your taxes. As to the idea of a theocracy. Jesus explicitly spoke against this, saying "My kingdom is not of this Earth, were my kingdom of this Earth, than my servants would fight." Or something like that.
And that's what they don't understand.
If they keep pushing this shit, it will come to blows, and they would get wrecked.
The idea of America as a Christian nation flies in the face of everything our founding fathers, as well as Jesus said.
I honestly don't know how they could've thought this was a good idea
I'm going to say -- no, he hasn't.
If you want to blame a President for changing what it means to be Evangelical, blame Reagan. God and Country. And bigotry. And greed.
The truth is, these people were always there. Reagan, Bush Jr. and Trump main role is to encourage them to come out into the open.
He has, but he didn't do it all to them. They've given a huge blackeye to Christianity themselves and non Evangelical Christians are not happy about it either.
I am not a Christian and I have thought many times over the past several years that if I were a Christian I would be appalled at what evangelicals have done to Christianity. They have dragged it down into the muck and smeared it with ugliness and hatred and cruelty. They are evil. I have many Christian friends who do not believe this warped, demented version. They have every right to be enraged at evangelicals.
What LITTLE belief I had that there are any decent Evangelical Christians disappeared with their support of Trump.
Amoral disgusting humans. ALL of them.
Christians embraced Trump to the detriment of public perception of their faith.
The conduct and behavior of these self-styled Trumpian Christians will further reverberate in the decline in membership.
In other words, a self-inflicted wound.
I find it interesting that evangelicals want to post the Ten Commandments in schools, which the Bible says were given to Moses in the Old Testament, but none of them ask to post the Beatitudes, which the same Bible says were given by Jesus in the New Testament. I guess the Beatitudes are too woke for them.
Already had a pretty negative opinion. How can people believe a thing when the first chapter of the first book is demonstrably false?! But... whatever. Christians since Trump are certainly worse. They don't even pretend to actually follow the message of Christ.
When your âchurch,â suddenly becomes a political hate group, people are going to react negatively.
It makes me sick to think about whatâs going on in these churches. These people are absolutely addicted to hatred.
He didnât change anything; he only gave the evangelicals permission to remove their mask.
I always knew they were hypocrites, but, I must admit I was surprised as to how full of shit they actually are.
[2 Corinthians 11:13-15](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+11%3A13-15&version=ESV)
[2 Timothy 3:1-17](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Timothy+3%3A1-17&version=ESV)
[Titus 1:16](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus+1%3A16&version=ESV)Â
[2 Thessalonians 2:1-17](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Thessalonians+2%3A1-17&version=ESV)
The Bible has a lot to say about Trump and his ilk.
Trust me, they didnât need Trump to look bad, they just look twice as bad now that they have broken nearly every one of their own rules making this clown their entire personality.
Either Trump is the literal antichrist, or the Republican Party as a whole is the antichrist. I couldnât see another person or group steering so many âreligiousâ people away from actual biblical Christianity, while claiming to come in the name of God.
Theyâre made for and deserve each other. Theyâve been waiting for this moment for a long time. Finally, there is a mouthpiece for their hate and people pay attention to it. I hear the word âevangelicalâ and I run
Trump didn't do that. Evangelicals were already hateful and ignorant. I was an Atheist long before trump was a serious candidate. Mostly because of how hypocritical and hateful Christians were
My sister-in-laws dad was our Baptist preacher. He preached it like it was. He received no pay from the church.( He wanted it that way) He was an out of town worker working all over the country but no matter where he was, he would always be there Sunday morning and night to preach.
My devout (but left-wing) father has gone over the last decade from always hoping I would find my way back to the church someday...to acknowledging that for the most part churches just exist to produce hate these days. It is sad, but also the only possible way it could have gone once "Christian" started being shorthand for "right-wing" by the 1980s.Â
Technically Christians did that all on their own by supporting him and you know, trying to make this country a Christian country, reverse a womanâs right to divorce, reverse gay marriage, reverse marriages of people not within the same race,⌠you know, the stuff Jesus stood for.
Given that these supposedly Christian people value a monster who is one of the worst people on earth like some sort of cult makes me glad I never succumbed to being a religious fanatic.
Because it says something when you google Christianity and more times than not you see hate being preached. Or preachers being the top demographic for child porn/sexual assault. And the loudest voices are preaching damnation if you ainât loyal, donating, living how they want, or just plain have the wrong color.
And it speaks even louder, when you get nothing but utter silence from all the other self proclaimed âChristianâ denominations with all their huge memberships besides ânothing to do with us, got nothing to do with us, not our business if some folks want to stand up in Christâs House and proclaim in His name, other folks are subhuman vermin and deserve to die. Not like it implies we agree or anything âŚâ
>Trump Has Changed What It Means To Be Evangelical - Giving Many Voters a Negative Opinion of Christianity
Anyone whose opinion of Evangelicals has changed because of Trump, hasn't been paying attention.
These fuckers have always been hypocritical, greedy shit bags.
Not just evangelicals, Republicans are viewed more negatively. Prosperity theology. Christian Nationalism. Does it matter? No. The right is utterly insular. They think they are doing God's work. Who doesn't love people doing God's work. Trump's greatest feat of legerdemain is convincing the religious right that a serial philander, rapist, liar and cheat is the second coming. Trump is evil. Evil has the support of the religious right. These poor simps have sacrificed their morals to support a person that has never made a self-less sacrifice in his life. These people have turned their backs on their principles to annoint an unprincipled thug as their new lode star. It used to be that the road to hell was paved with good intentions. For the religious right, the road to hell is paved with their cast off morals and the stones they would normally cast at a rapist.
Prosperity gospel is heresy anyway.
Anything that lets them keep their money and not care about other people.
They are called Republicans.
God wanted me to have this jet
Typical: "Prosperity is a blessing. Poverty is a curse." "Why wouldn't God want to bless his people?" đ
I suppose they could always take it up with the big guy when they meet him. But they won't. Because: Option A: the source material they haven't bothered reading makes it clear they have another destination to look forward to. Or... Option B: The big guy doesn't exist.
Option C: The big guy is a kid running a simulation for a class, and kinda got bored with it. As soon as he is done going to the bathroom this whole thing gets shut off. Luckily we run at 4.2069x10\^24 speed when he is not in interactive mode.
>Prosperity is a blessing Their logic, like many of their beliefs, is based on a false premise. Jesus was pretty clear that prosperity is often a curse that interferes with a person's relationship to God. But, of course, American evangelicals don't really have much use for the words of Jesus.
All they stand for now is taking things away from regular people. They took a womanâs right to choose. They have their sights set on gay marriage and no fault divorce. The southern baptists just came out against IVF for fuckâs sake. What a miserable bunch of mopes.
They are just waiting for the end times to come in their little book. They think they are the going to heaven or some shit.
I enjoy how men can't even include it in dating profiles if they're republican. That should give them a hint that their political views are messed up.
No wonder theyâre against education and for child marriage. They are afraid that anybody with critical thinking skills will not want to have anything to do with them.
Trump is the byproduct, not the cause> ironically, if anything trump is a doing a great job of pointing out how hypocritical these ppl have always been. Trump doesn't believe this shit, he's not a christian, and he doesn't like any of these poor dumb mother fuckers. He's Still a piece of shit, but he didn't make Christianity bad. They support dogshit politicians as a practice. Trump is far from the first.
I grew up in a batshit fundamentalist religious home, and every word here resonates. The number of people that I was instructed to respect and look up to, and who ultimately turned out to have feet of clay is absolutely mindbending. Their unwavering support for not only the Golden (Showers) Calf, but also of outright, brutal, theocratic government is unbiblical as fuck. (Why? See: [Why Theocracy Is Terrible](https://www.russellmoore.com/2018/01/08/why-theocracy-is-terrible/), by Russell Moore, ex-Editor in Chief of Christianity Today and is the author of the book Losing Our Religion: An Altar Call for Evangelical America. In a nutshell, it attempts to usurp the authority of Jesus Christ.) *âThe problem here is that this relationship between the evangelical leadership and the Republican Party has become what Christians call a covenant.* *Over the last 70 years, Christian theology has been steadily replaced, within the evangelical world, by Republican or "conservative" ideology. I noticed this in my time at an evangelical seminary and during my years in ministry, whenever political discussion would go beyond abortion and gay rights. When the conversation turned towards gun rights, immigration, taxing the wealthy, education or health care, the tenets of Christian theology disappeared behind Republican talking points.â* ([Source](https://www.salon.com/2021/07/17/how-evangelicals-abandoned-christianity--and-became-conservatives-instead-3/)) This next level of idolatry is really something to behold. Iâm watching pastors and preachers caught up in it, absolutely convinced of their own righteousness while being subsumed into the very things they were taught to be on the lookout against.
This thread makes me happy. I have never in my life time, at 48 years old and somebody who studied skepticism and a critical thought, never wanted anything more than to shed the gracious and ploying bullshit of civility in wanting to truly enjoy the destruction of religion and their endless human subjugation. That Trump might not only destroy the GOP if he doesn't destroy American democracy first, that is a blessing, but that if Trump and his manic actions with people that love him because they believe in magical thinking without any objective truth or reality or data, are completely destroyed? The Christianity could be completely destroyed over time because we finally had someone exposed just how brutally stupid moron fuckheads are to think some space pixie is mandating bone cancer in children from somewhere in the universe? This is some of the stupidest stuff, and that the majority of our country is governed by people trying to use reasoning when they have no basis in understanding how to do that. Okay now I'm just sick of this shit. End this. Start over
If someone tells me theyâre a Christian, I automatically assume theyâre an asshole.
Well said.
It is crazy that an christian thinks Trump is religious. Trump is not religious at all, does not believe in God or church.  On top of that he has broken almost all of the commandments. He cheated on 3 wives.  Any Christian that votes for Trump will be going to hell. Â
Read Revelations in the Bible; the antichrist will charm the idiots (obviously paraphrasing lol) Makes me think of trump all the time.
Modern Christianity seems to have forgotten a lot about their religion. Sophie put it best in Da Vinci Code: âYour God doesnât forgive murderers. He burns them!â
Yeah religion makes people so self-assured and stupid. What a combo
I was listening to a very interesting former evangelical talk about this. Awhile back the movement adopted the â7 mountainsâ concept. The seven areas that the movement believe influence society and that they seek to influence are family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government. They see Trump as having mastered business and media, so thatâs 2/7 mountains already. So why not use him to tame the government one for them, too? And so they convince themselves god chose this âflawed warrior.â They literally claim the Lord spoke to them (their leaders) and chose Trump. So if heâs endorsed by the big man then whatever he does has been okayed. Thereâs no level of twisted thatâs too far.
Christianity has become cringe. It is no longer based on Christâs teachings.
It was bad enough when the preachers had to travel the countryside with their circus tent revivals to conduct their grift. Then they got on the radio and TV and could really broaden their base. They have somehow convinced millions to do the opposite of Jesus's words and celebrate wealth in the goal of enriching themselves.
Jimmy Carter is an example of what a Christian man should be.
And Christians hate him
He is the picture of decency. A very solid dude.
'Christians' hate him. Those same Christians who hear the words of Jezus and say: Woke!!
They think Jesus is too liberal. Seriously.
*"Well, just look at him. Long haired woke ass hippie! He says be nice to people. Nobody tells me what to do. Fuck that and fuck him!"*
[If only it were so unserious](https://onlysky.media/jpearce/christians-jesus-is-too-woke/)
Jesus is the essence of liberalism. Care for others, give people what they need, do unto others as you would have them do unto you
My dad is an evangelical pastor. When I told him my ethic was "treat others the way you want to be treated," he called me a secular humanist. These people couldn't recognize Jesus if he stood in front of them
Jesus literally said to love one another. Wow.
They hate Dolly Parton too.
Anybody who hates Dolly is the enemy.
How can anyone hate Dolly for goodness sake. Just because she wonât hate and dump on others I guess. Their morality is so twisted.
If kids learn how to read they might develop critical thinking skills.
Claiming to be a Christian and actually being one are two very different things. Jimmy Carter = Christian Anyone following Diaper Don = not a Christian
They were really off base on that assessment. Jimmy Carter lived a good Christian life; constantly helping those in need.
They would really hate Jesus himself. Long haired hippie condemning the wealthy and powerful and telling people to love each other.
[They do](https://onlysky.media/jpearce/christians-jesus-is-too-woke/)
Jimmy Carter exactly đđŻ
Or Fred Rogers. He's the only other Christian that I'm aware of that walks the walk.
Yeah Mr. Rogers was another one.
remember that fox news segment talking about how mister rogers ruined generations of kids by emphasizing acceptance and kindness?
Carter was to good of a man to be president.
That's the thing that really irks me. I was raised in a Baptist church, and our pastor actually practiced what he preached. We were taught the evils of coveting/ greed and were taught there's over 100 Bible verses that explicitly ban wealthy people from heaven. I'm atheist now, but I get a kick out of the Osteens and the elites forcing faith in the rest of us while they themselves are ineligible for heaven.
Faith, particularly evangelicals it's very much steeped in cultural identity. Travel most of the rust belt and the south and you'll find these places dotted with churches and places of worship everywhere, it's something the community does and uses it as cultural barometer for how assimilated you are into the community. But like others have said, it has gone off the rails with it's conservative militancy , mostly field by decades long right wing media..
I saw a stat not long ago that there are 19 churches for every McDonald's in the US. Just something to think about.
Holy shit really?
Part of it is every time two Pentecostals have an argument a new "church" is born.
Would not surprise me in the slightest. You drive through the rural south youâll pass a half dozen churches easy before you see a grocery store. And usually thatâs just a gas station quick stop.
When you think of the wasted money, and time put into churches that could actually be put into helping people, it is heartbreaking.
[McDonald's: More Influence Than Christianity? - Phil Cooke](https://www.philcooke.com/mcdonalds-more-influence-than-christianity/#:~:text=David%20mentioned%20that%20according%20to,little%20influence%20in%20our%20culture%3F)
Makes sense. Off all the churches I can think of in my county there are only two McDonalds maybe 18-20 churches
> most of the rust belt and the south And the majority of evangelical churches in the Rust Belt were started to accommodate transplanted Southerners who moved there looking for jobs during the Depression and post-WW2.
They know itâs all bullshit so theyâre grabbing all they can before they kick the bucket.
Yep. I regret not getting my piece of the money pie from idiots who believe in talking snakes. It turns out, to nobody's surprise, that we atheists have more morals than those dunces.
Provided itâs all real and we will all be judged one day I would love to be there when the osteens, and the Benny Hinnâs show up for their time before the book of knowledge. It would be worth my own hell bound lifestyle to see the abject rejection on their faces knowing their comfort and position were only in the worldly bodies and not in their spiritual cores
Itâs easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven. But the church I used to go to said they meant some valley somewhere that was called âThe Eye of a Needleâ. I called bullshit, left the church, started thinking for myself and never looked back. Except to chuckle now and then at their hypocrisy.
Yep, I grew up in the era of Oral Roberts. Even as a young boy, I was very skeptical of a man portending to "heal" people by merely placing his hands on them and reciting some contrived ritual, usually in a circus tent revival.
Thatâs a good observation. That type of circus tent revival Christianity definitely found its feet on TV quickly.
Yep
âI like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.â â Mahatma Gandhi
And this was half a century ago before the crazies took over.
Become...? âWhenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel.â â Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
That dude rocked
I give "The rights of man." As a present to people all the time.
The cruelty is the point.
Well... they're not all bad... In 2018, Pastor Dave Barnhart of the Saint Junia United Methodist Church in Birmingham, Alabama posted this message to Facebook: âThe unbornâ are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they donât resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they donât ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they donât need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they donât bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. Itâs almost as if, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.
Wow! I am now agnostic/humanist after being raised in a very evangelical family. It took me 40 years to break free. I always felt this. I still do. I still have ties to very entrenched family members and my brother is a fence sitting pastor. I am sending this to him because he is very anti Trumpism and really concerned about the state of Christianity.
He hit that nail on the head so hard it went through the Earth and came out the other side and kept on going.
Good quote. I'm adding that one to my list.
I love some Paine. I was so into him in college. Him and Marcus Aurelius. I was weird.
If Christ came back, they literally would crucify him again. Modern day Christians would not be receptive to a brown-skinned man who looks like a hippie coming to them and telling them to give up their worldy possessions and dedicate their lives to helping the poor, sick, and unfortunate.
This is the TRUTH I wish we could make all of them stop and consider. Jesus' life was a life of love. The Trump Christians are living a life of fear and anger. Jesus would be so sad.
Honestly I find it funny now when they try to fearmonger people with threats of going to Hell. If there is actually a Heaven or Hell, these so-called Christians going to be in for a very rude awakening when God calls them out on their life of hypocrisy.
This is why modern Christians don't follow Jesus. They follow Paul. They love the Pharisee inspired legalism! (This brings me to the fact that Jesus got Twilight Zoned. Imagine it's all true. He's God in human form. But he preached a socialist message and hated one group in particular: Pharisees. He hated everything about them from their rules, to their attitude, to their wealth. One thing leads to another and Jesus is killed, resurrected, and then he busts a move off the planet vowing to come back later on. In the meantime, a former member of the group that Jesus hated the most, the Pharisees, ends up wrangling control of Jesus' message and it ends up becoming the backbone of Christian theology. By the sheer number of books in the Bible, Paul is the main character, not Jesus. This is fine if it's all just mythology to begin with but we're starting with the idea that Jesus really is God. It turns out, it's not Jesus' words that built the Holy Roman Empire, it was Paul's. Paul has always been the dominant figure for the overwhelming majority of Christians, Catholic or otherwise. Do we think Jesus would be burning "witches"? No. But the Pharisees would have. (As a point of fact, "hunting witches" was a way to root out reformers to the church and a way for the church to eliminate perceived threats to its dominance.) Do we think Jesus would be raising money in a megachurch Sunday after Sunday? Of course not. He drove the money changers out of the church. But Paul would. So God ultimately got Twilight Zoned. He clearly got his message out but it is overshadowed time and time again by Paul causing most Christians to miss the point entirely.)
It never was. I remember when I left the faith, that was a large part of why. I looked around at the people around me and said to myself "This is what being a state of grace looks like? This is what it means to have Jesus in your heart? Are these the people I will have to spend time with in the Kingdom of Heaven?" And the clergy were among the worst. There are very few people that I have met who actually hold up to what Jesus taught, and a great many of those few aren't even Christian. Christ was very clear about who was and was not accepted by him in Matthew 25:31-46, and almost none of the people I met in church would be swiped right.
At least 40% of the folks in any American church are just the families of insurance and car salesmen looking for suckers. Include home remodelers, plumbers, electricians, morticians, etc. My religious MIL discovered that an insurance salesman attending her church was a member of two other churches. I bet he had a comfortable lifestyle, other than the fun being sucked out of every Sunday.
Absolutely this! If I could base myself and shed any semblance of ethics I have, I would join the largest mega church in town in order to boost my business. Unfortunately, I have ethics and self respect, so no. Iâll build my business the hard way.
It never was. Christ never founded Christianity.
This ended a long time ago Perhaps you missed the Crusades or the Spanish Inquisition, or the Catholic Church
To be fair, I donât think anyone expected the Spanish Inquisition
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
It's a hate cult now - trump allowed them to openly hate, whether that be women, minorities, poor, lgbt, other religions.
Christians have become cringe as they no longer practice Christianity (and have always been mostly not good at it). âThe Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried â. -GK Chesterton These evangelicals are talking the talk but not walking the walk. Where there is no love there is no Christianity.
To be fair, Christianity and Catholicism before that have been used by people to get rich and oppress others for hundreds, if not more than a thousand years at this point. Just look at all of the stuff that went on with the Crusades and the Catholic church enriching itself during the middle ages. It's not like this is anything new, it's just the latest version of the same old story.
Absolutely correct. Itâs nothing like he taught. As a matter of fact these people are those that made him physically angry overturning tables in the temple because they were using his fatherâs house to get gain. These are also , like the Pharisees, those he called hypocrites for insisting on specific behaviors, then turning around and practicing the exact opposite. Greed, lust, lying, etc.
Christianity hasnât been based on Christâs teachings for a long time. Jesus was a very early socialist. Tell that to people now and they flip out.
It hasnât been for a very long time.
Na always thought badly on religion. Control is control
Never was bro
Never was. Religion adapts to meet the wants of the people. If people want to hear white supremacy hate speech then thatâs the church theyâll attend. Fox News is simply fanning the flames of schisms. Religious belief is not a hard and fast philosophical argument. The definition of God is obscure and different so that each person can put their wants and needs into it (e.g. an incel suicide bomber wants 72 virgins). If a religious schism doesnât adapt and remain popular then its r number drops below 1 and it dies out.
I grew up surrounded by evangelicals and sadly I can say without doubt that they have not changed much. The only thing that Donald Trump changed is it made them feel more comfortable spewing their hateful nonsense in public.
Trump didn't take them anywhere they didn't already know how to go...
This. The only thing that changed is it's now in the open.
As usual, trump brings out the lowest most disgusting members of our society. These "Christians" are the same ones that don't want to give out free school lunches to children, love their guns more than their neighbors and think that a simple trip to church to "ask for forgiveness" is all they need to absolve them of their bad behavior. American "Christians" are "America's Taliban".
I think the Taliban at least allows for abortions if a mother's life and/or health is at risk-- before sepsis or hemorrhaging sets in.
That feel when a religious extremist terrorist group is nicer to women than the example of democracy in the world.
I see youâve met my in-laws.
Why using quote on Christians? They are by all means, mainstream Christians, using the religion as a means to justify the end.
This is what the evangelical movement was all about the entire time. The mask is now off.
Honestly, the Catholics were right there too the whole time.
Southern Baptist only exist because of their hatred of black people.
Not exactly. Once upon a time, evangelicals used to preach against getting involved in politics as they believed it had a corrupting influence. They didn't even vote... republicans saw this and saw an untapped voter base. They pretty much started the entire anti-abortion movement just to give evangelicals an issue to care about so they would start voting republican. And it worked... and it turns out that the old evangelical pastors were right; politics corrupted their religion to the point where they are compromising their own beliefs to support the most sinful grifters
I remember the 80's during Satanic Panic, my cousins talked non-stop about the so-called coming antichrist. He was supposed to be a wealthy man, outside of politics who would somehow rise to power. His speech was to astound, shock and deceive many with his charisma. Most important, he would deceive believers. Why don't my cousins see it? They spent the last 40years looking for him, and yet, he's right there. Not that I believe any of it.
Weird. Having you articulate it here makes me believe it. And I'm Buddhist.
Oh, I forgot, He's supposed to glorify himself above all else, as if he was God. I should add that this is my interpretation, of their interpretation, of their pastor's interpretation and so on. They talked about it while burning vinyl records because of 'backward messages'. Oddly, the smell of those records burning was way worse for me than listening to them.
So he ticks every box! Forwards! Talk about mental gymnastics!
You would have thought the golden Trump idol at the 2021 CPAC was a clue. I haven't been a god-botherer in many a long year, but even I can see that's got a whole Second Commandment vibe going on.
Yeah, my cousins missed that. Also missed when he called himself the chosen one.
Ah well see thatâs because Obama was the Antichrist, because he won an election, was super charismatic, and above all is black. That and the Antichrist is gonna fool everyone. But not them. Obviously. Anyways the real issue here is right-wing evangelical brainrot, and tribalism. Much of this - and the invention and evolution of American white supremacy - dates back to and is closely intertwined with the history of slavery in the antebellum period, and post civil war, as religion, politics / single party tribalism, and slavery white supremacy all developed and gelled together in the deep south to, first, psychologically and socially defend the institution of slavery, and then later to fight against reconstruction amd racial equality when the south fought a war / attempted independence movement over that and lost. Originally of course that was just the deep south. The northern *anti* slavery movement was built almost entirely on (left wing) christian evangelism, built almost exclusively on deep held christian (and liberal / progressive) principles, and thereâs a deep irony in that thereâs a lot of rural far right folks from the upper midwest (and states like west virginia and kentucky) that are descended from a long line of *progressive*, left-wing folks. Anyways. US evangelism has always been chock full of grifters and snake oil salesmen. Particularly from the late 19th century onwards. Religion and politics in the deep south was always super fucked (and arguably is damn near identical *now* in many states to what it was in the 1860s, just with the political parties switched). The politicization of the nationwide evangelical base - and turn rightwards - happened in the 80s though, and the rest as we say is history. Obviously once you mix religion and politics it irrevocably corrupts both. Or at least when right wing politics is concerned. I should probably note here that I really donât mean to imply that all modern republicans - or their evangelical base - are a bunch of racists / white supremacists. The funny thing about tribalism - and intergenerational in group / out group politics - is that the actual values and beliefs can change drastically from one generation to the next, while the political / tribal infrastructure stays largely the same. Racism and anti-integrationism is basically - and quite literally - what forged the beginnings of the modern religious right in the 50s and 60s. That generationâs kids (ie the baby boomers and to a certain extent the silents) though were far more open minded, and, genuinely, tended as a whole to not really give a shit about the racial politics of their parents and grandparents. Fast forward to present and weâre several generations further removed from that. All of this has basically resulted in the situation where republicans - and the religious right - genuinely *hates* democrats and progressives (ie the old 1860s republican party) for reasons that they cannot articulate. Evangelical christianity is inextricably bound up with social and economic conservatism - and single-party politics - for reasons that also canât be articulated. The good, god-fearing white christians will all vote for one political political party across the board, and one party only. This party is the party that does *not* include the black baptists, who also vote as a block, albeit for far more legit / existential and historic reasons - for reasons that are surely just incidental. Part of this is legitimately racism. Particularly in LA / GA et al. The bigger part of this though is just flat out tribalism - and a tribe that basically forgot / doesnât particularly understand (or want to understand) its own history. Democrats / the left / big city urbanites arenât just the political opposition, theyâre *evil*. Due to a half-remembered grudge (or more accurately, two grudges), that involve 1) in the 1950s, the US federal govt forced public school integration - and shut down white-only christian private schools that were built as a workaround to maintain segregation 2) lost causeism Anyways. Because Democrats (note: formerly republicans / whichever party has black people in it and was fighting for civil rights, equality, and left wing christian (and liberal) values) are evil, and our entire worldview is simplistic, black and white, and fed to us by literal con men and snake oil salesmen under the permissive freedoms of the 1st ammendment (and the protestant reformation - and the general history and founding of the US as a refuge for, among other things, a mentally ill cult of brits who wanted to build their own *true christian* utopia free from the satanic influences of theater and music. And after mind you they had participated in and lost a civil war attempting to, among otheir things, force their own batshit beliefs onto everyone else in england) Anyways point being the US was built by religious crazies, has always been full of religious crazies, and unfortunately one of our two political parties is built on a demographic (and community) of people who regularly (and itentionally) get taken advantage of by con men, and vote for a tribal political party of con men / con women that regularly and systemically takes advantage of them. The fact that theyâve all fallen for Trump shouldnât be remotely surprising⌠because duh, heâs a fairly successful well recognized tv personality and con artist. Nor should them trying their own supposed religious values and doctrine in knots, since again this has been going on in the deep south for the last 200+ years, and is inevitably what happens when you blend together church and state into a single uniparty group-think polity. That consists of you and everyone in your church group as the good god-fearing chosen people, and everyone outside of it (and in particular the godless liberals and progressives) are evil, and child molestors, and whatever else you want to throw at the wall. The problem to be clear is NOT Trump, itâs the base that is in not one but *multiple* active self-reinforcing cults, incl the modern republican party, fox news / talk radio, conspiracy theories, âchristianâ dreck, and ofc the biggest lie - an unironic belief / faith in christian gospel, coupled with an inability to critically read the bible *and* lifelong grooming to trust local community / family / church authority figures and never suspect ulterior motives - that primes these people for all of the above. And nevermind ofc that there are obviously a ton - or hell most - people who are well aware that this is all bullshit, but are in on it to take advantage of their more gullible community members / congregations / friends / family members / spouses / et al.
- Although it remains to be seen how much support presumptive GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump will receive from independents and swing voters in the November election, he continues to be extremely popular with his hardcore MAGA base. And a key part of that base is far-right white evangelicals. - Trump is by no means universally loved within Christianity, and he has his share of detractors who identify as Catholic or Mainline Protestant. But his bond with white evangelical voters is as strong in 2024 as it was in 2020. In a June 17 column, the Washington Post's Shadi Hamid laments that Trump's alliance with white evangelicals is giving many voters a "negative" opinion of Christianity. "Despite an effort to overthrow an election and a bevy of criminal charges," Hamid explains, "Donald Trump has managed to solidify and even expand his support among core demographicsâŚ. The voters most loyal to the former president are white evangelicals. More than 80 percent backed him in the 2020 elections." "Evangelical," Hamid emphasizes, has become both a political identity and a religious identity â and the "unsettling" result will be "more intense political polarization around religion." Hamid explains, "Evangelicalism, in short, has become about shared political convictionsâŚ. Now that white evangelicals are so disproportionally and unapologetically Trump-supporting, the share of Democrats who view Christianity negatively is likely to remain high or perhaps even increase."
Yeah the ultimate hypocrisy. All things they claim that are important this man is done the opposite.
I'd have to imagine it's not just Democrats at this point, I'm sure even the less extreme and less religious Republican party members are being pushed away as well.
No, American Evangelical Christians don't get of that easy, they have been terrible for decades, they have been trying to ruin America with lies and they've found a champion in Trump to do that, but they are scum and have been scum for a very long time, if not always. Trump has merely highlighted what it means to be an Evangelical Christian in America IE. ignorant, bigoted, reality denying scum.
Exactly. This is what no one is getting. They all think they evangelicals are being hypocritical for supporting Trump. He advanced their agenda. He could be a literal p\*do rapist and it wouldn't matter to them as long as the courts get stacked while the GOP in congress cripples the federal government from passing protective laws.
Country Club Christians. They hang out in the clubhouse once a week. Or make the yearly pilgrimage around Christmas time. They use their connections to make deals. They use membership as a way to distinguish themselves and exclude âundesirablesâ. Thatâs as far as most of them take it.
*The idea of evangelicals who donât go to church was once unusual. Now, it is surprisingly common. In 2008, only 16 percent of evangelicals said they never or seldom attended church. By 2020, 27 percent did.* So, on top of the growing number of maniac preachers, now we've got these religious nuts forming their core values not from the bible, but from MAGA media fearmongers and whoever else seems to align with what they want to believe.
Church of Q
Trump gives all of us (except his MAGA cult) a negative view of everything. I wish he would go away. Off to Kennedy Space Station, board one of Musk's rockets to infect another planet- preferably Uranus where his head is located.
Trump has done more to harm Christianity as a whole than any other person in my lifetime. Iâm just waiting for him to start a trump church.Â
Well, with Project 2025, America is going to pretty much be a theocracy led by these people if they get their guy in office, so get comfy. Vote like your religious freedom depends on it. Because it does.
Iâve thought a lot about out this. Iâm a Christian, but not sure Iâd wear that flag around in todayâs climate, afraid someone will think Iâm Maga. Theyâre not drawing people to their religion, theyâre chasing them away
I'm so angry about them trying to use *our* flag. I'm going full Martha-Ann- gonna fly an American flag,a Pride flag, and a Rhode Island flag, cuz I'm tribal like that.
Want a Florida flag? I'm not using it! Oh, and I have more rights to it than these fat, domestic, albino, ancient-ass migrants that won't stop flooding this state!
Trump keeps proving to be the Anti Christ in so many ways.
True facts. And threatening retribution if you don't vote for him. How's that for an election plan?! Hey vote for me, else I'll come FOR YOU after I'm elected.
James Dobson ruined these people
Dobson supports Trump. He has claimed that character doesn't matter he wanted a strong Commander in Chief. Instead, he gave a generation the worst role model imaginable. I would like to ask Dobson what Trump character traits would he like young people to adopt?
Dobson said character in private absolutely matters 100% when Clinton was in office. Oh boy did that tune change when Trump came along.
Trump's character isn't the point. The reason evangelicals like Dobson adore him is because he can force their agenda through via the courts. They realized how few checks we have when a court is out of control. He is the key to them being in power. Trump's appointments, not just at the SCOTUS, will wreak havoc on our rights for generations.
He hasn't changed what it means to be evangelical....he has exposed what it means.
Evangelical Christians have lost all credibility in my mind by endorsing Trump. They rationalize it by saying that King David was used by zgod even though he was an unrighteous man and likewise with Trump. This is very uncompelling to me and I see it as a simplistic ends justifies the means ethical argument with is fallacious.
They think trump is their way to take total control of the U.S. Their goal is to legally mandate their religious beliefs, forcing every one of us to be evangelical Christians. The very idea of freedom of religion is anathema to them. And I think they would enthusiastically execute anyone who dares to disagree with them.
And say they hypothetically succeed in eliminating all the non believers and followers of different gods, by conversion or other means, that's the point at which they turn on each other. The hate doesn't end. It just changes targets.
If God sent Trump to the United States, itâs in the same way that he sent Nebuchadnezzar to Israel.
That, along with a bogus conversion narrative cooked up by Paula White and James Dobson, soured me on Trump and the evangelical side of Christianity for good.
I havenât been back to my Evangelical church since 2016. I have a very negative opinion of them. Founding fathers knew what they were talking about when they set things up separate from the church. Jesus says to let Ceasar be Ceasar. Meaning government is going to do what the government is going to do. Thatâs not our business. We have bigger fish to fry.
You are absolutely correct. There are several passages in the bible that support the idea of seperation of church and state. Give unto Caesar that which is Caesars is just one of them, and it quite literally means to pay your taxes. As to the idea of a theocracy. Jesus explicitly spoke against this, saying "My kingdom is not of this Earth, were my kingdom of this Earth, than my servants would fight." Or something like that. And that's what they don't understand. If they keep pushing this shit, it will come to blows, and they would get wrecked. The idea of America as a Christian nation flies in the face of everything our founding fathers, as well as Jesus said. I honestly don't know how they could've thought this was a good idea
Why anybody would want to be part of a cheap low budget shitty version of Christianity that would openly embrace Trump is beyond comprehension.
Nope, he did plenty but Christians can thank themselves for following a morally repugnant serial adulterer and pathological liar.
I'm going to say -- no, he hasn't. If you want to blame a President for changing what it means to be Evangelical, blame Reagan. God and Country. And bigotry. And greed. The truth is, these people were always there. Reagan, Bush Jr. and Trump main role is to encourage them to come out into the open.
Trump did not do that on his own. Evangelicals had an even bigger hand in pushing people away with their nonsense.
Evangelicals are trying to figure out how to keep Christian in the name but remove Jesus from the canon. Heâs too wimpy for real Christians.
He has, but he didn't do it all to them. They've given a huge blackeye to Christianity themselves and non Evangelical Christians are not happy about it either.
I am not a Christian and I have thought many times over the past several years that if I were a Christian I would be appalled at what evangelicals have done to Christianity. They have dragged it down into the muck and smeared it with ugliness and hatred and cruelty. They are evil. I have many Christian friends who do not believe this warped, demented version. They have every right to be enraged at evangelicals.
Glad people are catching up.
The kind of Evangelicals Christian that feel threaten because the car mistakenly pull into their driveway and wants to leave.
So they have basically created the war on Christianity that they have been faking for the past 50 years.
What LITTLE belief I had that there are any decent Evangelical Christians disappeared with their support of Trump. Amoral disgusting humans. ALL of them.
Christians embraced Trump to the detriment of public perception of their faith. The conduct and behavior of these self-styled Trumpian Christians will further reverberate in the decline in membership. In other words, a self-inflicted wound.
I find it interesting that evangelicals want to post the Ten Commandments in schools, which the Bible says were given to Moses in the Old Testament, but none of them ask to post the Beatitudes, which the same Bible says were given by Jesus in the New Testament. I guess the Beatitudes are too woke for them.
Already had a pretty negative opinion. How can people believe a thing when the first chapter of the first book is demonstrably false?! But... whatever. Christians since Trump are certainly worse. They don't even pretend to actually follow the message of Christ.
On book 1 page 1 of the Bible, the creator tells of his creation... and gets it wrong.
When your âchurch,â suddenly becomes a political hate group, people are going to react negatively. It makes me sick to think about whatâs going on in these churches. These people are absolutely addicted to hatred.
He didnât change anything; he only gave the evangelicals permission to remove their mask. I always knew they were hypocrites, but, I must admit I was surprised as to how full of shit they actually are.
He's sure mocks what it means to follow Jesus.
Being Evangelical always meant being a hypocrite.
Evangelicals are, by far, the biggest group of cons and cheats. So why is this so surprising?
[2 Corinthians 11:13-15](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+11%3A13-15&version=ESV) [2 Timothy 3:1-17](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Timothy+3%3A1-17&version=ESV) [Titus 1:16](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus+1%3A16&version=ESV)Â [2 Thessalonians 2:1-17](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Thessalonians+2%3A1-17&version=ESV) The Bible has a lot to say about Trump and his ilk.
Trust me, they didnât need Trump to look bad, they just look twice as bad now that they have broken nearly every one of their own rules making this clown their entire personality.
Everything Trump touches dies. Whoâd guessed he could even make Jesus look bad? Heâs quite insane, you know.
Trump & Christianity should not be in the same sentence. Just bc he sold Bibles doesn't mean he read/understood it.
My opinion wasn't good to begin with. Now, it has proven itself to be braindead on the operating table.
Well... yea. If a Christian tells me he is a trump supporter, I question the sincerity of his faith
Either Trump is the literal antichrist, or the Republican Party as a whole is the antichrist. I couldnât see another person or group steering so many âreligiousâ people away from actual biblical Christianity, while claiming to come in the name of God.
Many of us already had a negative view of Christianity. And these evangelicals are proving us right.
It wasn't trump that did that....Christianity has always been bullshit.
Ahhhh. Itâs always been a negative. Itâs just more under the spot light now. Any and all religion is negative to society.
Isn't it the church of golden Donnie. Looks like that to me, just waiting to hear the call to sample the kool-aid
I had a negative view of it long before 2016.
He didn't change it, he just showed the world what they're really like.
Theyâre made for and deserve each other. Theyâve been waiting for this moment for a long time. Finally, there is a mouthpiece for their hate and people pay attention to it. I hear the word âevangelicalâ and I run
Trump didn't do that. Evangelicals were already hateful and ignorant. I was an Atheist long before trump was a serious candidate. Mostly because of how hypocritical and hateful Christians were
My sister-in-laws dad was our Baptist preacher. He preached it like it was. He received no pay from the church.( He wanted it that way) He was an out of town worker working all over the country but no matter where he was, he would always be there Sunday morning and night to preach.
That negative opinion of evangelical christians is well deserved.
Oh honey - I had a very negative view of Christianity long before Trump.
My devout (but left-wing) father has gone over the last decade from always hoping I would find my way back to the church someday...to acknowledging that for the most part churches just exist to produce hate these days. It is sad, but also the only possible way it could have gone once "Christian" started being shorthand for "right-wing" by the 1980s.Â
Because they were doing such fucking STELLAR PR for themselves before right?
Technically Christians did that all on their own by supporting him and you know, trying to make this country a Christian country, reverse a womanâs right to divorce, reverse gay marriage, reverse marriages of people not within the same race,⌠you know, the stuff Jesus stood for.
Given that these supposedly Christian people value a monster who is one of the worst people on earth like some sort of cult makes me glad I never succumbed to being a religious fanatic.
It's nothing more than I already expected of Christianity.
I've never in my life been so farther away from organized religion due to the mind fuck that's going on right now.
Americas Taliban
Come worship at the holy church of father Steve Bannon! đđ¤Ą
The one good thing he has potentially done is accelerate the demise of this group.
I grew up catholic, I didnât need trump to make me look negatively on christianity. It did a fine enough job without his help.
It's not just voters.
He ripped the mask right off the farce that they have any morality.
Christianity doesn't need trump to give voters a negative opinion on christianity, they do just fine on their own.
Because it says something when you google Christianity and more times than not you see hate being preached. Or preachers being the top demographic for child porn/sexual assault. And the loudest voices are preaching damnation if you ainât loyal, donating, living how they want, or just plain have the wrong color. And it speaks even louder, when you get nothing but utter silence from all the other self proclaimed âChristianâ denominations with all their huge memberships besides ânothing to do with us, got nothing to do with us, not our business if some folks want to stand up in Christâs House and proclaim in His name, other folks are subhuman vermin and deserve to die. Not like it implies we agree or anything âŚâ
I already had a negative opinion of Christianity. Definitely say fuck Christianity now. Tax those fucking churches
>Trump Has Changed What It Means To Be Evangelical - Giving Many Voters a Negative Opinion of Christianity Anyone whose opinion of Evangelicals has changed because of Trump, hasn't been paying attention. These fuckers have always been hypocritical, greedy shit bags.
Trump is a modern day Jim Jones. When he looses this election will his supporters drink the poisoned Kool Aid or try another Jan 6th ?
All religions are bs anyway.