One thing to keep in mind is that a surprising amount of people are uncomfortable with the word “vaginal”. I’ve been asked many times whether my birth was “natural” when I know they mean “vaginal” (as opposed to a C-section). I always make a point to reply that it was “vaginal” and they often look awkward and confused.
Agreed! If we’re talking about birth, we all know how the vagina takes part here. I’m very sensitive to the term “natural” birth because I had a traumatic early csection delivery. I try my hardest if anyone ever asks “was your birth natural” to say “every birth is nat ur al” as my response
Yeah I literally once had a DOCTOR ask if my birth was ‘normal.’ I started listing the GBS, the haemorrhage and possible placental abruption and then realised she was asking if I’m my child was born vaginally. Major side eye.
I'm fine with vaginal but I have some relatives who aren't so I tend to say "the usual way" or some other euphemism with them lol. I don't say "natural" only because it's too vague in meaning.
I have seen that, too. Even when given stuff like fentanyl and morphine. I would definitely not consider that unmedicated. Strange place to draw the line at the epidural
This the whole problem though - we can’t draw sensible lines around ‘natural’ apparently. When I had my baby vaginally a friend who’d had a c-section was really jealous and implied I shouldn’t be bothered about my haemorrhage and stitches because ‘at least (I) managed a natural.’ I pointed out that I’d had an epidural, monitoring, an iron infusion, a saline drip, antibiotics for GBS. None of those were ‘natural.’ It was such a weird place to draw a line, for me.
And I agree that drawing it around an epidural is also pointless.
Yes! Agree. I wanted to go with minimal medication but the way it turned out I needed to be induced early so once Pitocin was in the mix i just went ahead with the epidural. Why go unmedicated for pain when my contractions were being medicated to be super strong and fast.
10/10 NOT WORTH IT. I made it almost to 8cm with my son with an induction and got the epidural. Same outcome- healthy happy baby. His issues are genetic and had nothing to do with me being induced or having an epidural. Idk why I was so committed to no pain meds, ultimately there was no reason to be in that much pain. I wanted it, but still don’t know why. Social pressure I guess.
I preferred not to have an epidural because I wanted to be able to walk around. I had to be induced, and I had to lay in specific positions to keep my baby from becoming distressed, so I decided to get an epidural after about 10 hours of contractions.
I am pregnant again, and I'd still prefer to be able to move around during labor. I also don't regret getting the epidural. It helped me stay in the right position and get sleep so I was well rested to push.
Fair enough. I definitely wanted to move around my second time! That and the claustrophobia like feeling from the epidural and restriction definitely played into why I didn’t want it the second time. I got it at 8 out of 9 hours of labor…the first time I got it at 4 out of 9 hours. I felt so much more the second time. And if I could’ve had an epidural like I did the second time with my first, I’d like to believe I wouldn’t have been so against it the second time.
I will say I wouldn’t change either induction for anything. My oldest lodged her foot so far in my rib I still swear it’s bruised 2.5 years later. I’d have taken anything to have been done with that pregnancy earlier than I was at that point. Turns out her placenta was failing by the time she was born anyway. My second induction was done so my husband could get Red Crossed home from deployment and ultimately my choice was for him to be there rather than have the *ideal* birth I wanted. Turns out birth sucks.
Right I had pitocin but no epidural or other pain medication so I never know what to say. “Without pain management” is also not try because I employed many pain management techniques, just non-medicinal ones
I'm on board with this. i've def been saying "vaginal" vs "c-section" birth since having my 1st, bc I was aiming for vaginal but ended up with cesarean so the difference became very clear!
I feel like the term “natural” is also a bit confusing. Are you referring to a vaginal birth, or unmedicated? Does having an episiotomy change the status of your vaginal, unmedicated birth from natural to something else?
What constitutes an “unnatural” birth? Probably coming into existence through a tear in the time/space continuum, but what else?
>What constitutes an “unnatural” birth? Probably coming into existence through a tear in the time/space continuum
😂
Yes, that and transporter accidents are my vote for what constitutes "unnatural" birth.
Literally had this same thought the other day 😂 Calling unmedicated births "natural" is so weird. Birth itself is natural, it would take some real sci-fi shit to make it unnatural!
In my mind, you gave birth naturally if you did it alone in the middle of the woods or down by a river lmao. It's just how I picture it when someone says they had their baby *naturally*. Like a deer.
In France in hospitals/clinics the low intervention births are called «physiological »
I kind of like it, it sounds neutral and not judgmental or in way or another.
In infertility circles, we also tend to not use the term « natural », rather spontaneous/assisted pregnancies.
See I actually dislike the term “physiological” because it implies that low intervention birth is what the body is *supposed to do*, while birth that needs intervention is a failure of physiology / the body.
This term has also been taken up and used excessively on social media by anti-OBGYN and anti-CNM doulas, lay midwives, and others. That’s probably at least 50% of my dislike for the term if I’m being honest
"Natural" is such a loaded term that is usually code for "what I want/did".
Nothing more natural than the most collaborative species on earth coming up with ways to make childbirth less painful and less risky.
I tell people my first was a “natural c-section.” I labored and pushed with no drugs for 18 hours. Little man was so far down the birth canal, the midwife had to push him back up for the OB to cut him out. Second was a 36 hour labor VBAC. Both my kids are here due to modern science and my innate stubbornness.
How funny I spoke about this randomly with my brother and his partner this afternoon and we said the same thing. Totally agree neutral medical terms are great for avoiding any issues or feelings of judgement ❤️
I’ve been calling the birth I want “minimally- medicated” because I’m planning to avoid epidural if I can handle the pain and use nitrous gas. I agree the term “natural” is loaded and unhelpful because the opposite is “unnatural” and I’d never want to think of my birth in that way, especially given many of the “unnatural” interventions are often out of our control.
It's funny because for some reason using nitrous didn't register to me as medicated. Maybe because I went into it wanting the epidural and not being able to get it so anything less than the epidural felt "unmedicated" but you're totally right that nitrous is medication too.
Nitrous f-ed me up more than anything else during my first birth to the point that my husband thought I had actual brain damage so I definitely wouldn’t consider it natural lol. I pretty much sampled every possible medication with my first birth (which was also induced) so I felt like it was the most unnatural experience ever and I really hated it after the fact. My second birth was unmedicated, I legitimately had nothing at all and it was so much of a better experience.
So interesting how different each person's experience is! I loved my induced, epidural birth way more than my birth where I only had nitrous (and I only used nitrous for maybe 10 minutes or so during my whole labor and not at all during pushing).
That's interesting. I wanted a very holistic, low intervention birth, but needed a c-section and I don't mind thinking of it as unnatural. I'm glad it was an option and it was the best option for me and my upside down baby. It not being natural, and instead a testimony to human ingenuity, is ok with me.
I love this! I wanted a vaginal with my first and had to have a C-section. It sucked but I feel tougher for it because my recovery was ... Ugh it sucked. But how cool is it that we can do this surgery and all come out the other side? Obviously not always the case and the road to this has been dark and super fucked up but in general we can regularly perform these and all go home. My second was full 'natural' no meds, vaginal and it was a great experience to have gone through both lol. I think in order to get through either method you have to be tough as hell and that should be the focus.
This is my take, too. C-sections are not natural. That doesn't make them inferior. It's amazing we have them as an option when needed!! It's a testament to how far science and medicine have come in saving lives. People get hung up about this but only bc they infer that natural must mean superior. It doesn't.
I was conscious of this and told a friend I hope for a vaginal delivery. She said, "It's okay, you can say 'natural'," mostly because her nine-year-old was sitting at the table with us (on her iPad so I didn't think she was paying attention) and the friend laughingly said she now has to explain a few things to her daughter later.
I felt bad because I didn't think "vaginal" was vulgar language and I wasn't wrong in my use of it.
At 9 the kid is close to having her period these days anyway. Mom had some explaining to do even if you hadn't mentioned it if the kid doesn't know what her own anatomy consists of yet.
Yeah I definitely just say vaginal or c section. I don't care if people are embarrassed by the "v word" lol
If you're grown enough to make babies you're grown enough to say the word vagina y'all 🙄
I *planned* on having an unmedicated vaginal birth... I ended up with multiple epidurals and an unplanned c section so 😂
I also find it mildly offensive when people say natural. Like I get it cutting open ones stomach and removing the baby isn't exactly natural but neither is getting various forms of pain relief, episiotomies, etc. Just because things weren't found "in nature" doesn't make them inherently bad or lesser, that's why modern medicine and surgery is so amazing!! So many of us would be dead or harmed for life without these "unnatural" procedures
You say unnatural (i.e. not found in nature) isn't inherently bad or lesser, but you also say you find it mildly offensive. I think if we can try to remove the offense from it, we could also remove the stigma it carries. Some things are simply less "natural" than others, it's a fact and it doesn't necessarily make them inferior. I've actually always said this about the word "natural" in any sense - food, skin care, birth. Whenever someone says they want natural (or don't want unnatural), my response is "poison ivy and snake venom are natural, that doesn't make them good for you.
Now for me I do prefer things in birth that are typically referred to as "natural" (spontaneous, vaginal, no pain meds) as I think most people do but many don't. It's fine either way. I think another big issue with this whole thing is women assuming that other women are judging them just because they did it differently. I would be miserable if I went around thinking that people who choose to get an epidural from the start are looking down on me for choosing not to. Maybe some are but that's none of my business. And they shouldn't assume I'm looking down on them because I didn't and they did.
Agreed! I’ve been trying to be very conscious about using the term “vaginal” instead of “natural”, even around coworkers and people I normal would never say the V word around 😂 but I’m sticking to it because “natural” does NOT equate to “vaginal/unmedicated”
Same!! I’m also just like so over people being uncomfortable with the word “vagina” so I’m using pregnancy as my excuse to commit small acts of quiet rebellion on this front lol
I think it’s just because so many people are weirdly alarmed by using the proper terminology for body parts. My sister’s kids called a vagina a “front butt” until they were in elementary school, had a sex Ed class, and were embarrassed they had never been corrected.
I’m on board with what you suggest. It should definitely be vaginal or cesarean. That’s all anyone should be allowed to ask you too. I mean, people casually asking, not medical professionals. Lol if I took pain meds, that’s my choice. It’s like when people laugh at you that you flinched at a fist coming at you. Ummm yeah I have good reflexes? You’re gonna make fun of my good biology? lol
This is another big thing though. It’s a really important way of protecting against abuse, telling your child the correct names for their genitals. I follow a social worker online who shared a horrific case of a little girl who kept telling teachers that her uncle was hurting her ‘flower.’ He was touching her and she didn’t have the language to tell people, so the abuse went unchecked until someone finally worked it out.
I realise this is separate to the main point but we HAVE to get more comfortable with our own bodies. Using euphemisms to describe our own anatomy can potentially be dangerous, as well as causing more mundane confusions like people are talking about in this thread
I’m glad you (and others on Reddit) bring this up. I have a girl toddler, and, remembering a similar comment I read on Reddit a while back, made sure to teach her the correct term when we were talking about body parts and potty training.
I didn’t even think about that! Incredible point! We had already planned on teaching our kids proper names plus teaching them consent early on. Ifs as simple as if you are uncomfortable hugging uncle Joe, you don’t need to.
L&D rn here. I started saying ‘all birth is natural- did you mean vaginal instead of caesarean births?’. People are receptive to it. It sets the tone of the delivery when one of your care providers can validate both delivery methods.
Love this! This is what my midwife said to me when I said “natural” at my first appointment and it really made me think! I’d barely read anything about pregnancy at that point and somehow the word had still immediately made its way into my vocabulary.
Any birth is natural because that’s just childbirth but I definitely prefer “unmedicated” no/minimal interventions when people are referring to natural birth. It definitely feels shame-y for sure. I like how you brought this to attention!
My infertility group heavily encouraged “unassisted” and “unmedicated” instead of “natural” when discussing fertility treatments. I’d 100% be on board and encouraging of the same practice here in relation to epidural and c-section.
Completely agree. The term natural is vague and misleading. Most people using it generally mean vaginal birth but they don't limit it to any interventions utilized along the way let alone during the birth itself. What about the process of conception? The entire length of pregnancy? I know someone who considered their pregnancy & birth "natural" because they had zero interventions. No doctors visits, no scans, no medications, no bloodwork, and a homebirth with no medical professionals present etc.. She would disagree with most other people's definition of "natural". Everyone defines "natural" on their own scale of personal opinion.
Yeah totally like are stitches after a vaginal tear natural? are prenatal vitamins natural? Is a fetal monitor natural? It just seems like a weird line to draw in the sand and it’s hard to imagine the point of it other than some misplaced sense of superiority, or discomfort saying the word “vagina”
Some people probably think it's shorter instead of going into a detailed description of every "natural" aspect of their birth but really it just makes it more confusing.
I had a C-section, it wasn’t a natural birth. That’s just science. No need to be offended. My babies are alive because of it. Call it what you want, I don’t care. But it’s not natural.
Exactly 😂 there’s only one natural route, technically unmedicated too. the second there’s any intervention 🤷♀️ but I don’t know why it bothers people. The only “natural” birth I had resulted in a full term loss… so. Idgaf how un-natural my other births have been. I care about the result! I wear my unnatural births with pride!
Absolutely!! I completely agree. I was sad to not have the experience I wanted, but I’m so blessed and thankful my girl made it here safe. I’m so sorry for your loss 🩷
I so feel that, you definitely mourn the birth you didn’t have but so wanted. In my case i’m always mad at the world for giving me the birth I always wanted with the worst possible outcome. Seems so cruel. I’ll forever wish it could have been one of my other two that I got that with. but taking them home at the end of it is it all that really matters ❤️ but it’s definitely normal to feel down about “missing out”
My midwives notes say “uncomplicated SVD”
A spontaneous vaginal delivery (SVD) occurs when a pregnant female goes into labor without the use of drugs or techniques to induce labor, and delivers her baby in the normal manner, without forceps, vacuum extraction, or a cesarean section.
What do they call it when a person goes in labor without the use of drugs or techniques to induce labor and delivers her baby vaginally with forceps (for example)? Is that a complicated SVD?
What if there was an epidural?
The words SVD seem to only indicate labor was spontaneous and the baby was delivered vaginally.
Even the NIH doesn’t have one consistent definition of what it actually is and if it includes induction or not - generally it is categorized as birth without medicated pain management but again, the definition is mushy even across institutions.
Yes I very much agree. I'll have people ask if my birth was natural and I'm just like well what do you even mean by that??
Honestly the term makes me uncomfortable because it implies there's also an "unnatural" way to give birth, which there is not. Also I dislike it because people are generally using it as a way to ask whether a delivery was vaginal or not. And if you aren't willing to use the term "vaginal" then maybe you just shouldn't be asking! Like "vaginal" is not a term we should be afraid of at all, but also if you don't feel it's appropriate in the context of the person you're speaking with, then yeah, you shouldn't be asking them at all lol.
I don’t like the term natural. I just like gave birth. I feel really uncomfortable disclosing to anyone vaginal versus c section (even my family). It just feels like none of their business and I’ve been SHOCKED by the amount of people who asked me which I had.
If I say c section someone will inevitably tell me it was “the easy way out” which makes me feel like absolute shit as I’m already so disappointed I didn’t get a vaginal birth
Being a nurse, when I came back to work people were asking me if I gave birth vaginally and something just didn’t sit right with me when these people that I only talk to at work were asking me this. The term natural doesn’t bother me, but I understand that it’s not a concise use of language and why it’s really the incorrect term to use. When people asked I usually just told them I used a birthing center and most people realize that means I didn’t get a section and didn’t get pain meds. Those that don’t know would ask, and I would clarify.
But some people do have a “natural” birth. Like no pain meds, no epidural, no antibiotics, no Pitocin, no episiotomy, no vacuum or forceps, etc. So what are we supposed to call it to make others comfortable? - not a smart ass question since we’re talking about how “natural” makes some people uncomfortable.
There’s a lot of good discussion on this topic in the comments - there’s a massive disparity in how people even use the word natural. Some just use it to mean vaginal. Care providers don’t even agree on what it means! A sterile birthing pool isn’t “natural.” A fetal or maternal heart rate monitor isn’t “natural.” It is very very rare for someone to give birth these days without ANY medical intervention whatsoever - and that’s not even how most people use the term. At the end of the day, everyone is welcome to use whatever terms they please, including “natural” - but I think many have highlighted how slippery that definition even is.
Nothing about my pregnancy was natural. My baby was conceived in a Petri dish and delivered by emergency c section under general anesthesia. We pulled all the stops and we are both doing great, that’s all I care about.
At what point is freedom of speech and expression suffering at the altar of “inclusion”? At what point does recognizing and sitting with one’s own discomfort become relevant instead of expecting others to change their speech in really innocuous ways like this? I’ve seen this so much in the mom and fertility community and it’s getting SO out of hand! I’m the biggest proponent of inclusion and thoughtfulness but not at the expense of freedom of expression. There has to be a balance here! At what point is an actual natural birth honored? How are we minimizing one group of women’s experiences by trying to include another?
OMG YES! Thank you 👏👏👏
If a woman has a vaginal birth but it’s medicated, is that not “natural?” That’s a medicated birth, for example.
I wish more people were aware of this!!
I also don’t like “I conceived naturally” as an IVF mom. You conceived unassisted. I’ve done it both ways, but only had a live birth with the help of medicine.
Totally. Also, the “unassisted” conception of my fetus (9w2d) was actually pretty darn technologically assisted. I spent years googling fertility things. I used thermometers to learn that I have short luteal phases. I used ovulation prediction kits to time intercourse. I’m taking folic acid supplements (that’s a technology) because there’s no way in hell I can meet my folic acid needs through whole foods (too many first trimester food aversions). I’m taking unisom to manage my nausea so I can keep putting calories into this body that is incubating the fetus! Without all these technologies I’m not sure I would have much chance of ever carrying a pregnancy to term…
… I want to add that I’m not equating the difficulty of my conception experience with that of IVF. IVF sounds infinitely harder. I just wanted to say that I have a big debt of gratitude to the technologies I used to conceive.
I think there isn’t a path to birthing a baby that is easy, completely painless and not in any way stress on the body. All forms of birth result in the birth of a new little human and are in their own way beautiful.
Agreed. It's literally your choice completely. Sometimes, medication is recommended for other unrelated conditions as well. Nobody should have to feel bad if their birth plan has to change from a vaginal unmedicated birth to anything else for any other reason. Women shouldn't be seen as less than for choosing to suffer less and enjoy birth more if that's what they want.
I've heard people feel like they "failed" when they carried their child full term and needed interventions. You did it! You had the baby! Nobody is better or worse for how a baby is delivered.
I just don't like it because it's too vague. Some people use it to mean vaginal, others use it to mean unmedicated, and some use it to mean spontaneous labor (usually spontaneous and unmedicated).
"Unmedicated" is actually a vague term as well, usually people mean they didn't have any pain medication but sometimes they only mean they didn't have the epidural, or they may mean they weren't induced and didn't have pain meds. I don't know if an induction counts as "medicated" on its own anyway, I know there are some parts of the process that don't involve medication such as the balloon, but do synthetic hormones count as medication?
Anyway I think being more specific is best just in terms of clear communication. I don't think of any of the terms mentioned as negative or positive (even "natural" or not), just often unclear.
There’s been a long history of vagueness and imprecision in English around this.
Would you call your baby “born of woman” if you have a caesarean birth? I think most would but Shakespeare has it otherwise, much to Macbeth’s peril.
> Be bloody, bold, and resolute. Laugh to scorn
> The power of man, for none of woman born
> Shall harm Macbeth.
I had a water birth. I have been thinking that historically water births were probably really rare. It turns out they didn’t get popular until the 90s. Not exactly natural!
Yes! I’m a lactation consultant and never say “natural birth” and I’ve been vocal about how hurtful that term can be.
All birth is natural whether it’s vaginal or abdominal (c-section), with pain medication or not.
Such an important conversation! I definitely feel like I fell into this trap and wanted a “natural” birth. After 53 hours of labor I ended up having to have an unplanned c section. I’m still processing the way I feel like I “failed” because my birth was not “natural”.
I disagree, medicated/unmedicated during a natural birth is one thing, but a cesarean is not natural. It is a medical procedure to ensure both mother and child are safe due to complications that have occurred. Birth is birth regardless of course and neither is any harder than the other, but they aren't both natural.
Nah I don’t think there’s a need to shame people for calling their birthing plan natural when they really mean that they want to reduce unnatural elements. You don’t need to take it personally. I’m not going to walk around saying vaginal all the time because I don’t want to. But I’m also not going to shame women by calling their birth “unnatural.” Let people describe their experiences how they want to. There’s no harm in that. Avoiding medications when possible is more natural and there’s nothing wrong with that, just as there’s nothing wrong with going the more medicalized route if that’s what you prefer or need.
I don't know, as someone who had an induced labor and an epidural, I can say straightforwardly, it was not a natural labor, and I'm not offended at all by the use of the term. Not everything is natural.
Thank you. I think it’s funny that this really just puts the term natural on a higher pedestal.
Why can’t we just appreciate that all births are great and valid, even if they aren’t natural. Why is needing to be able to use that word so important?
Honestly I feel like it’s not totally realistic to expect people to change their language around this when a lot of OBs haven’t. I think it makes sense that people may use the word “natural” synonymously with “unmedicated” if that’s what their doctor does. If my care team is using a certain word I’m probably going to get used to using that word, and I think that’s probably more commonly the case than anyone trying to use the word to make their unmedicated birth experience sound superior to anyone else’s.
Not to mention I think this argument is missing a crucial point: *women should be allowed to speak about their birth experiences however the hell they want to,* without feeling there’s a right or wrong way. There are enough people policing how we feel and talk about our bodies already! If someone wants to call their birth “natural” literally who cares.
Unless someone is outright berating others for using medication during childbirth— ie “women who have medicated births are the worst!”— I think it’s a leap to imply that by simply using a term — especially one that is *very commonly used* by a lot of birth professionals — you’re shaming others’ birth experiences.
I just don’t buy it. It’s fine to make changes to your own language, but why make other women feel there’s a *specific* way they must talk about birth? Why not just let them speak about it as they wish?
I’m speaking about how I wish to speak here, not telling other women how they should speak. And I’m outlining my thought process in how I got here. Others have also weighed in about how they feel and think similarly. That’s what Reddit is for!
Well but you said it’s “shame-y” when people use the word “natural.” Which implies that a woman who uses that word is inciting shame on someone else simply by using that word.
I think that’s why some people are also reacting to your post the way I am.
I think a lot of people do feel like the word comes with some shameyness, particularly when it’s used to arbitrate people’s different definitions of “natural.” I think there’s value in people being able to express that they’ve felt shamed by it before. It doesn’t mean other people have to change their behavior - that’s up to them.
It leans on editorializing, that’s all I’m saying. People who use a term that is commonly used by doctors are not responsible for the fact that someone else might think the word has “shameyness,” (which I would say is an adjective with its own ambiguity… ?) I feel like most women are just trying to talk about their births, not be “shamey.” It’s not an inherently bigoted term or hateful word.
I just think the argument is ironically judgemental.
yeah I get what you mean but I am also tired of always having to be politically correct or censor myself just to not hurt other peoples feelings. to be more clear yeah I get it, but to not hurt other peoples feelings, idk lol.
That’s up to each individual person! For me, I don’t feel like I’m being policed when I’m asked to reflect on my language and be more intentional about it. Sometimes I choose to run with that change, sometimes I choose not to. But I feel like part of being human is thinking about how I speak.
this is marxism, the changing of definitions and the moral relativity.
there is, if words still have meaning, one truly natural way to birth, and that is one that is free of medication and medical intervention. if youre choosing interventions for yourself just be confident in your choices and call it what it is. nobody can shame you unless you allow them to. you dont have to hijack a term that people genuinely need to be able to use to accurately describe their personal experience. the experience of a natural birth is extremely different from that of a c section or epidural birth and mothers who have given birth naturally deserve not to have their terminology stolen from them in a way that makes it harder to express what they did. if everyone has had a natural birth just because they feel guilty or ashamed calling it anything else, then mothers who have truly given birth naturally are silenced. all experience is valid and should be able to be shared and described easily without having to play mind games or obey the woke terminology police.
lol it’s hardly “Marxism” to question the social definition of a word that is actually far less defined than you make it seem - there isn’t even consensus in the medical community of what “natural” means and if you read through this thread, I think you’ll see that there’s plenty of discrepancy in its interpretation here. It is used both as a synonym for vaginal and for unmedicated, and to cover the gamut of unmedicated birth with or without various interventions. It’s not nearly as binary as you’d make it seem, which is part of the necessity for discussing it.
I totally respect what other people feel about their births and I usually mirror the language they use for theirs but I also feel for myself that I prefer in some cases to differentiate between the birth I had that was home/natural/unmedicated/spontaneous and the one that was hospital/not natural/medicated/induced.
They both played out differently and I’m certain that my choices to have a medical or non medical birth influenced that both times so I prefer using terms that lay that out clearly. Honestly, I really do not care how other people feel about my birth enough to adjust my language to accommodate their feelings about it. Happy to adjust my language when talking about someone else’s but not my own.
I think you should freely use the terms you prefer to use to describe _your_ birth experience, and if you want to call your birth a "vaginal unmedicated birth" then you should do so.
But I would also add to be mindful of not policing others' language. If someone wants to describe her birth experience as "natural", that is her prerogative, and it _doesn't_ mean she's judging/shaming others or that she thinks her birth was "better" somehow, because "natural" != "better".
I wanted a natural birth, but it did not work out. It's never offended me when others describe their birth experience as natural, and I've never considered it a slight towards me or my birth. I think if I felt offended by others' use of the term "natural", that would be my own issue and it's something I should work through on my own, rather than trying to police others' language.
EDIT: Not saying OP is advocating to police others' language, it's just that her post made me think of it.
I love the word natural to describe birth… it really is a profound natural experience. The problem for me is that I don’t consider epidurals, inductions, or C-sections “unnatural.” Something being medical doesn’t mean it can’t be natural. Where do we draw the line? Is heart rate monitoring not natural? IV fluids? Getting swabbed with antiseptic and stitched up after? All that can be part of the experience of natural birth, along with pitocin, epidurals, and surgical intervention.
That’s why I personally don’t like the use of the term natural when a person is trying to say “a specific birth experience happened for me.” It’s so nonspecific and vague. I just don’t think it’s useful as a descriptor at this point.
I personally wouldn’t tell someone not to use the word natural if it feels right for them. I had a natural birth myself! With an epidural. ☺️
Yeah, I mean I specified twice in my post that I’m not trying to police others language, but rather expressing something that has made me think personally lately
To clarify, I was not saying that _you_ were trying to police others' language. It's just that I've seen a ton of it (language policing) on reddit when someone uses the term "natural birth", so I wanted to reiterate that that is not ok, and your post made me think of it.
I agree with this. I think it's more so about tone and delivery (no pun intended).
I was on the phone with my cousin, and she *asked* about my birth plan. I said, "I'll try to go as natural as possible if I stay low risk and my midwife approves". She immediately got offended at the term natural and went on a long scolding about how "natural" birth is irresponsible and that I should expect the worst and not be so close-minded. I wasn't aware that she had been induced and had an emergency c-section as we haven't talked in years. Had I said something along the lines of "natural is better", I could totally see why she would be offended, but I didn't.
My mother describes her labors as "natural" even though she got an epidural, so some people might say that it wasn't. But like you said, that's *her* choice to describe it that way because that was *her* birth story.
Agreed. Your cousin seems to have her own hang-ups about her birth experience as compared to others, and that's something she needs to work through on her own, rather than taking it out on you!
I'm definitely with you on not feeling offended when someone uses 'natural' to describe a vaginal birth; I wouldn't call my C-section 'natural' at all. Of course, there are so many feelings and judgements of certain birth practices, but it really seems factual to call it natural.
Unless you’re doing it naked in a cave with only a stick to bite down on and a handful of other cavewomen to grunt encouragement to you as you chew off the umbilical cord with your teeth, then at least some element of your birth is gonna be “unnatural”
Idk if this is what OP meant, but basically all birth involves modern technology that wouldn’t have been available even a relatively short time ago - think fetal monitors, sterile gloves, or blood pressure cuffs.
I mean someone can find pushing a baby out of their vagina to be an incredibly “unnatural” feeling, particularly if they’re the victim of sexual trauma, for example. Conversely, as someone else said well, getting a baby in distress out quickly via cesarean section can be the most “natural” way to do that! It’s a word that doesn’t define itself and the definitions that we project onto it are not always kind or helpful.
I mean… feeling it is unnatural is not the same as it being unnatural. No one is trying to fight someone that said “it felt unnatural to me”. I guess sure, yes, we can say trying to get a baby to live is natural, but that doesn’t make the process natural. It just feels like mind games and changing definitions. I understand seeking to be kind and caring to people’s experiences but these avenues feel disingenuous.
This is literally the preferred terminology from people who deliver babies - midwives and OBs - who feel like the term “natural” is ill-defined and non-medical. It’s changing for good reason and with support of the people closest to the process of childbirth.
The preferred terminology may be to not use the term natural or unnatural in the medical context at all. That’s different than calling anything we like/that is helpful “natural.” It May be the best course of action for the situation at hand — but that doesn’t make a C section is natural.
I think it actually becomes a really good heuristic! If you don’t feel comfortable saying “vaginal” in a certain environment, that’s probably not an environment that needs to hear that level of detail about your birth lol
None of my coworkers know how my kid came out of me and I am fine with that, they just get baby pictures lmfao
I agree with you but I think it's worth noting that a few people have asked me in passing if I plan on having a "natural" birth. I don't think they mean natural as in unmedicated...I think they might just not feel comfortable asking if I'll be having a "vaginal" birth. I usually just answer by telling them my goal is to have as few interventions as possible, but we will see how it goes!
They've all been a good bit older than me, so maybe it's a generational thing?
Either way, it's kind of a strange thing to ask lol but I don't mind as I am a notorious over-sharer, so if they catch me after the baby is born I will enjoy telling them all the juicy details.
Yeah my personal feelings on that are if they’re comfortable asking me how I’m getting a kid out of my body, they better be comfortable hearing the word “vaginal” lol but I know everyone doesn’t feel like that
You’re right about there being nuance to various delivery methods.
But I cringe at the “we shouldn’t shame certain kinds of birth with language” spirit of your post. An *elective C-section* is completely unlike any of the others (emergency c-section, medically motivated planned c-section, vaginal with epidural, etc).
People want to choose a form of delivery that the WHO is trying to limit, without any medical reasons to back the choice?
If the law in your country allows it and you can afford it, fine.
But coddling that? No way. It is not the same as the other birthing methods. And if someone’s ecstatic about their elective c-section, good for them. And if someone feels shame in that choice, they should look inwards, not blame the terms generally used by professionals and wider society.
People say it because it’s shorter. It’s a lot to say or type out unmedicated birth with no interventions. That’s what I put online because I type fast and I don’t want to offend people. But truly nobody is actually trying to hurt anyone’s feelings by just saying “natural childbirth”.
Yes, this is why I expect "natural birth" to outlast the language policing trend. It's not just changing a single word. There is a lot of meaning tied up in natural. It's really not just vaginal vs c-section like a lot of people are suggesting.
I’m on board! I had a friend who had a C-section and she was very hard on herself because she “wanted to have him naturally”. Her water did break and she did try pushing. I’m like girl, your body naturally knew it was time for him to come out, you just needed some assistance. Don’t call it unnatural to have a C-section because it would have been unnatural to keep him in longer when your body instinctively knew it was his time to come out.
I had a vaginal delivery a few months before her and I required an induction. I’m like we both needed assistance but naturally both babies needed to come out.
Yes I agree with your opinion. As someone who had epidural and emergency C section I'm quite happy with how my birth turned out as I had no plans on being unmedicated.
Crazy how everyone cares how you had the baby, why do people outside of your medical team even care? Strangers do not care how the child was conceived, they need to not care how they’re born. All that matters is everyone coming out of the birth alive and well. I am internally laughing at how I would respond if while pregnant I was asked if my pregnancy was natural or medically assisted.
My birth was as “unnatural” as they come: caesar under general anaesthesia. I didn’t meet my baby until he was two hours old. I was induced early due to cholestasis.
He’s now two years old and I’m struggling to wean him.
Natural? I don’t give a shit. I had a healthy baby. He’s thriving.
Not lying, in a way I grieved that I didn’t have a “natural” birth experience but I was more glad me and baby were healthy. I count myself very lucky though.
I agree and always made a point to use the terms unmedicated & unassisted. They're much more clear and specific. But I also noticed that if you're not talking to a birth worker or fellow pregnant person they probably won't understand and I ended up following up with "like all natural basically" several times.
this! it never crossed my mind until i was talking to a coworker who every time i said “natural” she assumed i was talking vaginal, when i meant unmediated. since then i’ve been more deliberate with my words
Everyone means different things when they use the term ‘natural birth’. For me a natural birth is a vaginal birth with or without meds just because that’s the biological way a baby is usually but I know and have experienced that it can’t always be the case.
No one should ever feel shamed for their birth.
Yes, there are descriptions that are more specific. However, ‘natural birth’ means vaginally without any medication.
The shame-y feeling you mention should not be implied/assumed and/or the fault of the sayer- you decide how you take it.
Feel free to alter your language. That doesn’t make it wrong for others not to.
That’s fine, if you read through this thread it’s extremely clear that about 50% of people think it just means “vaginally” while the other half think it means varying degrees of unmedicated.
I hear you. You stated a main point of being more descriptive, using terms correctly, so I felt it was important to clarify the terms/use in regard to meds.
The issue though is that there is no correct definition of natural birth - even the NIH and national college of obstetrics and gynecology don’t have an agreed upon definition as to whether it means no medication, limited medication, or simply a vaginal delivery
Yes, I’m aware and not arguing that. I was merely specifying the terms medicated, unmedicated more fully in the context of ways to amend language and discussion of birth- as you mentioned.
I think a lot of people have started saying “natural birth” in place of “vaginal birth” because vaginal is just a little uncomfy to say to certain people 😂like I don’t want to tell my father in law about my vaginal birth.
People who go unmedicated are the ones who should be more descriptive.
Completely agree! “Natural” is also just confusing, because some people mean “vaginal” and others mean “unmedicated” when they say “natural.” Also, yes, all births are natural, whether it’s unmedicated vaginal or medicated c-section - it’s a woman having a baby no matter how it’s done!
I agree that "natural" can be confusing as far as medicated vs not. People use it for both situations. But I don't think cesarean is ever included in "natural birth". I know people who have a cesarean don't want their birth to be deemed "unnatural" but IMO "natural" means as it would occur in nature, and a cesarean is never going to occur in nature. IMO natural means both vaginal and unmedicated.
Also no hate on cesarean births. I may (God forbid) end up needing one, you just never know. But if I do end up having my son that way, I wouldn't ever say "his birth was natural, all births are". No, he would be surgically removed in that case.
I always thought people said natural birth for a vaginal birth.. and I've always told people I had a natural birth - even though I was induced? Does this mean it wasn't a natural birth? Genuine question -- I'm confused
I think what you’ll find based on this thread is that people use it to mean many different things - some people adamantly believe it’s not natural unless it’s unmedicated, others use it as a euphemism or stand in for vaginal. People can use whatever words they want, but this is a big part of why I think it’s kind of a frustrating term - it’s medically unspecific and everyone has different opinions about what it means, often at the negation of others’ experiences.
I almost completely agree. This terminology is far more inclusive and will help mothers process and accept their birth stories if they included unexpected or unwanted elements such as medications or other medical interventions that are deemed ‘unnatural’. Especially for those mothers who were aiming for a ‘natural’ experience.
The only part I disagree with is the part where you said all birth has unnatural elements. I popped a baby out using nothing but my vagina. I would consider it 100% natural, but by no means am I saying it was in any way superior. It was simply what I chose to do and was what worked best for myself and my little family. I do still think your statement is like 99% true because very few women give birth the way I chose to lol.
Every mother should choose whatever combination of ‘natural’ or otherwise, that she feels she wants and needs to ensure a safe and positive delivery!
There are a million and one ways to birth a baby and they are all wonderful and deserving of equal acceptance and support.
I hear you, I think a better way of saying it is what each individual person considers “natural” and “unnatural” are somewhat subjective - I have heard people who are victims of sexual trauma feel like pushing a baby out vaginally is retraumatizing and deeply “unnatural” for them. “Natural” can mean “from nature,” but it can also mean “innate” or “wholistic” and I think many people don’t identify vaginal birth with those terms for myriad reasons.
Did you give birth in the hospital? Or get an IV, stitches, Tylenol? If so, do you still consider what you got a natural birth? I don't disagree with you--just curious what your thoughts are on this. Some folks have brought it up (e.g., how fluid IV, for example, makes it less natural) on this thread and I never thought about it that way. And it has me thinking, "what does natural even mean?"
No I delivered at home. I did not tear so no stitches. No IV. No equipment. I literally just pushed and a baby came out lol. That’s why I consider it natural, because there would have been absolutely no difference had I given birth 1000 years ago in a clay hut.
I think the terms natural and unnatural have a place in birth terminology, but they aren’t the most inclusive options. I personally consider ‘natural’ to be anything that would occur in nature, without humans creating it. So I would technically consider an IV, any form of pharmaceutical, or modern equipment like a doppler or other types of monitoring to all be unnatural, because none of that occurs naturally.
I would also consider the phone I’m using to type this to be unnatural, as well as the shower I use to clean myself, and the stove on which I cook my food, etc. Modern science offers many comforts and benefits. This is why I think applying these words to birth can be confusing and sometimes seem unkind, as for some reason, there is a stigma in some communities about how using unnatural birth interventions is somehow wrong, which I don’t agree with.
All the different birth options and plans are a spectrum. Natural and unnatural are just two options that fall within the spectrum, which is why I agree with OP that these words are too vague and just not appropriate for the context. They mean different things to different people.
I prefer more specific words like ‘unmedicated’, ‘vaginal’, ‘Caesarian’ etc.
While I have a personal definition of natural vs unnatural, I also completely agree with you, what does it actually mean?
She’s right, death is natural. A C section may not be ‘natural’ but it saves lives and that’s all that matters. ‘Natural’ doesn’t mean morally superior.
100%, this push to insist that all birth is natural simply comes from the misnomer that natural = superior. It's not. It's amazing that we have so many tools and interventions available to us to help save the lives of mothers and babies! But it is not all natural. That is NOT a bad thing. Natural is not always better. I am not sure why so many people in this thread keep saying that "natural is a loaded term" when it... isn't? It just means naturally occurring/not invented by mankind. Spontaneous vaginal deliveries without medications would be the natural way to give birth. It doesn't mean it's shaming someone else who needed additional interventions, whatever those may have looked like. Same with natural vs assisted conceptions. There's no reason to tell people not to say they conceived naturally when that is just a fundamental fact. It doesn't mean people who needed medications or procedures to conceive are wrong or inferior... they just needed help from science. It's pretty awesome we have those options!
To me natural means absolutely no medical intervention. No pills no cuts no injections. But vaginal , cesarean, medicated , unmedicated is more specific
That’s exactly why I think the term natural is so useless, outside of the birth being a natural miracle for us all.
You use it to mean “no pills cuts or injections” other people mean “stitches and antibiotics, but vaginal and no epidural” and some people mean “vaginal, but with an epidural” and any long list of things. It’s not a defined term, and when we try to define it more specifically, there’s a rabbit hole… are antibiotics natural? Are stitches natural? Is using scissors rather than your teeth to cut the cord natural?
i used the term natural in a post once and i never thought about any negative dictation behind it until someone commented. in my mind as a FTM my mind thought ‘natural’ as with no medical intervention or medication, until someone explained it to me that one could take it as me saying any other way is ‘unnatural’ - genuinely i had no idea. i guess it’s just me being naive in a way. i could never think of someone shaming someone for getting medication, or having a c-section, but that’s me again being naive i reckon
I agree with using more specific wording. lol. One of my partners friends isn’t comfortable saying “vaginal”, even in text, so that is what she means by “natural birth”. It was confusing at first because I have always been taught that to mean birth without external medical interventions. Always good to clarify.
Agreed, she has been unable to conceive up to now unfortunately, but once she is ready, those conversations with her doctor will very likely be uncomfortable for her.
When people asked me with my first whether it was a “natural” birth I used to say “well she came out of my vagina if that’s what you mean?”
She was ventouse and labour was augmented with pitocin.
Natural birth is a stupid term. I only use vaginal.
I also think “delivery” is a weird term too. It’s a birth, you gave birth. A doctor didn’t deliver the baby it’s not a pizza
I actually read a really interesting post here a while back— can’t guarantee it’s true— but it said that the origin of the term delivery was used in the sense of “delivered from evil.” So the doctor actually delivers the mother from the pain of child birth to use that term the way it originated.
Still weird, but cool lol
Yeah I always wanna laugh when women say natural birth like it’s a badge of honor as opposed to getting meds/c section. I always want to comment and ask what an unnatural birth is and why “natural birth” is even a phrase. I see it all the time like “I had a natural birth with all 6 my kids” weird flex but okay lol 😂 I got an epidural and idk if that means it wasn’t natural but if you want to scream bloody murder and feel every tear through labor that’s cool, I smiled up at my husband and cried happy painless tears as I pushed and I’d take that unnatural birth all day over the pre epidural experience I had 😂😂😂 and I think at the end of the day however you do it if you and baby are healthy than that’s the right way- your body your choice but don’t shame
Sorry, but I call my birth “natural” and am going to keep doing so. It was natural, unmedicated, no interventions, no exams, etc.
If my next birth requires medication etc, I won’t be calling it a natural one and I’ll feel gratitude about that. Because if I require a hospital transfer, that means that my “natural birth” would’ve involved the small chance of me dying from natural causes or something else of that nature (ie natural CS rate should only be 2-5%, not the 70+% it was at my hospital, but indeed it isn’t 0% and people most definitely died of natural childbirth prior to modern medicine). Why would you assume it’s meant to shame?
Im repeating what OBs and midwives have said to me - that they don’t prefer it any longer because it’s an ill-defined term even within the medical community, and “natural” isn’t an accurate synonym for “without medical intervention.” And if you spend time on pregnancy forums it’s absolutely sometimes used to mean “vaginally” and sometimes used to mean “without medication” and people in the latter camp can become pedantic and corrective when they feel it’s used incorrectly. You’re welcome to do whatever you’d like, and no one’s stopping you! I’ve been grateful to hear the linguistic shift in my care providers personally.
Your case seems to be very uncommon. If you got no stitches, cervical checks etc. It seems as though 99% of folks using the term "natural," aren't applying such a rigid definition. I don't have much of an opinion on it--just find it interesting.
I think some folks are missing the point of this thread. Of course, you can use whatever term you want. Just know that the terms you use can negatively affect other people (you may or may not care about this). The OP was simply bringing this to people's awareness.
One thing to keep in mind is that a surprising amount of people are uncomfortable with the word “vaginal”. I’ve been asked many times whether my birth was “natural” when I know they mean “vaginal” (as opposed to a C-section). I always make a point to reply that it was “vaginal” and they often look awkward and confused.
Totally - I’ve been doing the same. If you’re comfortable asking me about my birth, you better be comfortable hearing the word “vagina” IMO!!
My exact thought!
Agreed! If we’re talking about birth, we all know how the vagina takes part here. I’m very sensitive to the term “natural” birth because I had a traumatic early csection delivery. I try my hardest if anyone ever asks “was your birth natural” to say “every birth is nat ur al” as my response
When I told my family I was pregnant, my 5 year old niece asked if I was going to have the baby from my belly or my lady parts lol
Yeah I literally once had a DOCTOR ask if my birth was ‘normal.’ I started listing the GBS, the haemorrhage and possible placental abruption and then realised she was asking if I’m my child was born vaginally. Major side eye.
I tell people mine was vaginal but not natural. I was induced and had a lot of medication to get the ball rolling!
When I was talking to HR about my mat leave I decided I wasn't comfortable with vaginal and I said non-surgical
I know what you are saying but if they are an adult...go boohoo about it. that's how babies have gotten here for millenia. 🙄🙄🙄
I'm fine with vaginal but I have some relatives who aren't so I tend to say "the usual way" or some other euphemism with them lol. I don't say "natural" only because it's too vague in meaning.
I've seen people refer to birth with no epidural as "unmedicated" even if they get other medicinal pain relief. Definitely confusing.
I have seen that, too. Even when given stuff like fentanyl and morphine. I would definitely not consider that unmedicated. Strange place to draw the line at the epidural
This the whole problem though - we can’t draw sensible lines around ‘natural’ apparently. When I had my baby vaginally a friend who’d had a c-section was really jealous and implied I shouldn’t be bothered about my haemorrhage and stitches because ‘at least (I) managed a natural.’ I pointed out that I’d had an epidural, monitoring, an iron infusion, a saline drip, antibiotics for GBS. None of those were ‘natural.’ It was such a weird place to draw a line, for me. And I agree that drawing it around an epidural is also pointless.
This is a big part of why it’s not my favorite. Also, pitocin is medication. Natural doesn’t just mean no pain medication.
Yes! Agree. I wanted to go with minimal medication but the way it turned out I needed to be induced early so once Pitocin was in the mix i just went ahead with the epidural. Why go unmedicated for pain when my contractions were being medicated to be super strong and fast.
10/10 NOT WORTH IT. I made it almost to 8cm with my son with an induction and got the epidural. Same outcome- healthy happy baby. His issues are genetic and had nothing to do with me being induced or having an epidural. Idk why I was so committed to no pain meds, ultimately there was no reason to be in that much pain. I wanted it, but still don’t know why. Social pressure I guess.
There are a lot more reasons, but it’s all down to personal choice.
I preferred not to have an epidural because I wanted to be able to walk around. I had to be induced, and I had to lay in specific positions to keep my baby from becoming distressed, so I decided to get an epidural after about 10 hours of contractions. I am pregnant again, and I'd still prefer to be able to move around during labor. I also don't regret getting the epidural. It helped me stay in the right position and get sleep so I was well rested to push.
Fair enough. I definitely wanted to move around my second time! That and the claustrophobia like feeling from the epidural and restriction definitely played into why I didn’t want it the second time. I got it at 8 out of 9 hours of labor…the first time I got it at 4 out of 9 hours. I felt so much more the second time. And if I could’ve had an epidural like I did the second time with my first, I’d like to believe I wouldn’t have been so against it the second time. I will say I wouldn’t change either induction for anything. My oldest lodged her foot so far in my rib I still swear it’s bruised 2.5 years later. I’d have taken anything to have been done with that pregnancy earlier than I was at that point. Turns out her placenta was failing by the time she was born anyway. My second induction was done so my husband could get Red Crossed home from deployment and ultimately my choice was for him to be there rather than have the *ideal* birth I wanted. Turns out birth sucks.
Right I had pitocin but no epidural or other pain medication so I never know what to say. “Without pain management” is also not try because I employed many pain management techniques, just non-medicinal ones
I just medically induced with no pain meds that ended for me in an emergency c-section.
I'm on board with this. i've def been saying "vaginal" vs "c-section" birth since having my 1st, bc I was aiming for vaginal but ended up with cesarean so the difference became very clear!
I feel like the term “natural” is also a bit confusing. Are you referring to a vaginal birth, or unmedicated? Does having an episiotomy change the status of your vaginal, unmedicated birth from natural to something else? What constitutes an “unnatural” birth? Probably coming into existence through a tear in the time/space continuum, but what else?
>What constitutes an “unnatural” birth? Probably coming into existence through a tear in the time/space continuum 😂 Yes, that and transporter accidents are my vote for what constitutes "unnatural" birth.
Literally had this same thought the other day 😂 Calling unmedicated births "natural" is so weird. Birth itself is natural, it would take some real sci-fi shit to make it unnatural!
In my mind, you gave birth naturally if you did it alone in the middle of the woods or down by a river lmao. It's just how I picture it when someone says they had their baby *naturally*. Like a deer.
I think becomes an “assisted vaginal birth” when things like episiotomy, forceps, or vacuum are used? Not positive but I think that’s the term.
In France in hospitals/clinics the low intervention births are called «physiological » I kind of like it, it sounds neutral and not judgmental or in way or another. In infertility circles, we also tend to not use the term « natural », rather spontaneous/assisted pregnancies.
I like this because I think it’s a better descriptor and doesn’t make people say the word vaginally when they don’t feel comfortable saying that.
See I actually dislike the term “physiological” because it implies that low intervention birth is what the body is *supposed to do*, while birth that needs intervention is a failure of physiology / the body. This term has also been taken up and used excessively on social media by anti-OBGYN and anti-CNM doulas, lay midwives, and others. That’s probably at least 50% of my dislike for the term if I’m being honest
As a Greek I also dislike that term, because "Physi" is Greek for "Nature", so "physiological" is quite literally Greek for "natural".
"Natural" is such a loaded term that is usually code for "what I want/did". Nothing more natural than the most collaborative species on earth coming up with ways to make childbirth less painful and less risky.
I'll take the least natural birth necessary to make sure me and my baby come out the other side as healthy and happy as possible.
High five to this!!
I love this viewpoint
I tell people my first was a “natural c-section.” I labored and pushed with no drugs for 18 hours. Little man was so far down the birth canal, the midwife had to push him back up for the OB to cut him out. Second was a 36 hour labor VBAC. Both my kids are here due to modern science and my innate stubbornness.
How funny I spoke about this randomly with my brother and his partner this afternoon and we said the same thing. Totally agree neutral medical terms are great for avoiding any issues or feelings of judgement ❤️
I’ve been calling the birth I want “minimally- medicated” because I’m planning to avoid epidural if I can handle the pain and use nitrous gas. I agree the term “natural” is loaded and unhelpful because the opposite is “unnatural” and I’d never want to think of my birth in that way, especially given many of the “unnatural” interventions are often out of our control.
It's funny because for some reason using nitrous didn't register to me as medicated. Maybe because I went into it wanting the epidural and not being able to get it so anything less than the epidural felt "unmedicated" but you're totally right that nitrous is medication too.
Nitrous f-ed me up more than anything else during my first birth to the point that my husband thought I had actual brain damage so I definitely wouldn’t consider it natural lol. I pretty much sampled every possible medication with my first birth (which was also induced) so I felt like it was the most unnatural experience ever and I really hated it after the fact. My second birth was unmedicated, I legitimately had nothing at all and it was so much of a better experience.
So interesting how different each person's experience is! I loved my induced, epidural birth way more than my birth where I only had nitrous (and I only used nitrous for maybe 10 minutes or so during my whole labor and not at all during pushing).
That's interesting. I wanted a very holistic, low intervention birth, but needed a c-section and I don't mind thinking of it as unnatural. I'm glad it was an option and it was the best option for me and my upside down baby. It not being natural, and instead a testimony to human ingenuity, is ok with me.
I love this! I wanted a vaginal with my first and had to have a C-section. It sucked but I feel tougher for it because my recovery was ... Ugh it sucked. But how cool is it that we can do this surgery and all come out the other side? Obviously not always the case and the road to this has been dark and super fucked up but in general we can regularly perform these and all go home. My second was full 'natural' no meds, vaginal and it was a great experience to have gone through both lol. I think in order to get through either method you have to be tough as hell and that should be the focus.
This is my take, too. C-sections are not natural. That doesn't make them inferior. It's amazing we have them as an option when needed!! It's a testament to how far science and medicine have come in saving lives. People get hung up about this but only bc they infer that natural must mean superior. It doesn't.
Hold up, you mean that nature didn’t create sterile birthing tubs? Fairy lights? Any of the accoutrements of the most natural home birth?
Ain’t nothing sterile about a birthing tub 😂
I was conscious of this and told a friend I hope for a vaginal delivery. She said, "It's okay, you can say 'natural'," mostly because her nine-year-old was sitting at the table with us (on her iPad so I didn't think she was paying attention) and the friend laughingly said she now has to explain a few things to her daughter later. I felt bad because I didn't think "vaginal" was vulgar language and I wasn't wrong in my use of it.
Idk if her nine year old doesn’t know about vaginas or how birth can happen I’m glad you accidentally enlightened her lol.
Yeah seriously. It’s past time for mom to explain basic reproductive anatomy to her child, and it’s also time to begin other sex ed topics.
My 4yo knows babies come out the “gina.”
At 9 the kid is close to having her period these days anyway. Mom had some explaining to do even if you hadn't mentioned it if the kid doesn't know what her own anatomy consists of yet.
Yeah I definitely just say vaginal or c section. I don't care if people are embarrassed by the "v word" lol If you're grown enough to make babies you're grown enough to say the word vagina y'all 🙄 I *planned* on having an unmedicated vaginal birth... I ended up with multiple epidurals and an unplanned c section so 😂 I also find it mildly offensive when people say natural. Like I get it cutting open ones stomach and removing the baby isn't exactly natural but neither is getting various forms of pain relief, episiotomies, etc. Just because things weren't found "in nature" doesn't make them inherently bad or lesser, that's why modern medicine and surgery is so amazing!! So many of us would be dead or harmed for life without these "unnatural" procedures
Also, if it’s a context where it’s not appropriate to talk about vaginas…. Then why are we talking about how someone gave birth?
You say unnatural (i.e. not found in nature) isn't inherently bad or lesser, but you also say you find it mildly offensive. I think if we can try to remove the offense from it, we could also remove the stigma it carries. Some things are simply less "natural" than others, it's a fact and it doesn't necessarily make them inferior. I've actually always said this about the word "natural" in any sense - food, skin care, birth. Whenever someone says they want natural (or don't want unnatural), my response is "poison ivy and snake venom are natural, that doesn't make them good for you. Now for me I do prefer things in birth that are typically referred to as "natural" (spontaneous, vaginal, no pain meds) as I think most people do but many don't. It's fine either way. I think another big issue with this whole thing is women assuming that other women are judging them just because they did it differently. I would be miserable if I went around thinking that people who choose to get an epidural from the start are looking down on me for choosing not to. Maybe some are but that's none of my business. And they shouldn't assume I'm looking down on them because I didn't and they did.
Agreed! I’ve been trying to be very conscious about using the term “vaginal” instead of “natural”, even around coworkers and people I normal would never say the V word around 😂 but I’m sticking to it because “natural” does NOT equate to “vaginal/unmedicated”
Same!! I’m also just like so over people being uncomfortable with the word “vagina” so I’m using pregnancy as my excuse to commit small acts of quiet rebellion on this front lol
Also…if someone has the nerve to ask you how you’re planning to deliver, then they can’t get uncomfortable at the word VAGINA
A fucking men.
I think it’s just because so many people are weirdly alarmed by using the proper terminology for body parts. My sister’s kids called a vagina a “front butt” until they were in elementary school, had a sex Ed class, and were embarrassed they had never been corrected. I’m on board with what you suggest. It should definitely be vaginal or cesarean. That’s all anyone should be allowed to ask you too. I mean, people casually asking, not medical professionals. Lol if I took pain meds, that’s my choice. It’s like when people laugh at you that you flinched at a fist coming at you. Ummm yeah I have good reflexes? You’re gonna make fun of my good biology? lol
This is another big thing though. It’s a really important way of protecting against abuse, telling your child the correct names for their genitals. I follow a social worker online who shared a horrific case of a little girl who kept telling teachers that her uncle was hurting her ‘flower.’ He was touching her and she didn’t have the language to tell people, so the abuse went unchecked until someone finally worked it out. I realise this is separate to the main point but we HAVE to get more comfortable with our own bodies. Using euphemisms to describe our own anatomy can potentially be dangerous, as well as causing more mundane confusions like people are talking about in this thread
I’m glad you (and others on Reddit) bring this up. I have a girl toddler, and, remembering a similar comment I read on Reddit a while back, made sure to teach her the correct term when we were talking about body parts and potty training.
I didn’t even think about that! Incredible point! We had already planned on teaching our kids proper names plus teaching them consent early on. Ifs as simple as if you are uncomfortable hugging uncle Joe, you don’t need to.
L&D rn here. I started saying ‘all birth is natural- did you mean vaginal instead of caesarean births?’. People are receptive to it. It sets the tone of the delivery when one of your care providers can validate both delivery methods.
Love this! This is what my midwife said to me when I said “natural” at my first appointment and it really made me think! I’d barely read anything about pregnancy at that point and somehow the word had still immediately made its way into my vocabulary.
That’s awesome. We’re all learning, always!
Any birth is natural because that’s just childbirth but I definitely prefer “unmedicated” no/minimal interventions when people are referring to natural birth. It definitely feels shame-y for sure. I like how you brought this to attention!
My infertility group heavily encouraged “unassisted” and “unmedicated” instead of “natural” when discussing fertility treatments. I’d 100% be on board and encouraging of the same practice here in relation to epidural and c-section.
Completely agree. The term natural is vague and misleading. Most people using it generally mean vaginal birth but they don't limit it to any interventions utilized along the way let alone during the birth itself. What about the process of conception? The entire length of pregnancy? I know someone who considered their pregnancy & birth "natural" because they had zero interventions. No doctors visits, no scans, no medications, no bloodwork, and a homebirth with no medical professionals present etc.. She would disagree with most other people's definition of "natural". Everyone defines "natural" on their own scale of personal opinion.
Yeah totally like are stitches after a vaginal tear natural? are prenatal vitamins natural? Is a fetal monitor natural? It just seems like a weird line to draw in the sand and it’s hard to imagine the point of it other than some misplaced sense of superiority, or discomfort saying the word “vagina”
Some people probably think it's shorter instead of going into a detailed description of every "natural" aspect of their birth but really it just makes it more confusing.
I cannot upvote this enough. Yes.
I had a C-section, it wasn’t a natural birth. That’s just science. No need to be offended. My babies are alive because of it. Call it what you want, I don’t care. But it’s not natural.
Literally!! C-section momma here too. I joke that I didn’t give birth, she was evicted🤣
Exactly 😂 there’s only one natural route, technically unmedicated too. the second there’s any intervention 🤷♀️ but I don’t know why it bothers people. The only “natural” birth I had resulted in a full term loss… so. Idgaf how un-natural my other births have been. I care about the result! I wear my unnatural births with pride!
Absolutely!! I completely agree. I was sad to not have the experience I wanted, but I’m so blessed and thankful my girl made it here safe. I’m so sorry for your loss 🩷
I so feel that, you definitely mourn the birth you didn’t have but so wanted. In my case i’m always mad at the world for giving me the birth I always wanted with the worst possible outcome. Seems so cruel. I’ll forever wish it could have been one of my other two that I got that with. but taking them home at the end of it is it all that really matters ❤️ but it’s definitely normal to feel down about “missing out”
My midwives notes say “uncomplicated SVD” A spontaneous vaginal delivery (SVD) occurs when a pregnant female goes into labor without the use of drugs or techniques to induce labor, and delivers her baby in the normal manner, without forceps, vacuum extraction, or a cesarean section.
What do they call it when a person goes in labor without the use of drugs or techniques to induce labor and delivers her baby vaginally with forceps (for example)? Is that a complicated SVD? What if there was an epidural? The words SVD seem to only indicate labor was spontaneous and the baby was delivered vaginally.
An AVD under these circumstances. Assisted vaginal delivery. Would include any of the following: induction, epidural, forceps, vacuum.
Alone. In the woods. And eat the placenta after, raw.
I thought natural meant the labor is spontaneous and unmedicated? CMIIW.
Even the NIH doesn’t have one consistent definition of what it actually is and if it includes induction or not - generally it is categorized as birth without medicated pain management but again, the definition is mushy even across institutions.
That's how I always thought of it but I see a lot of people use it to mean vaginal, even if it's an induction.
Well my labor was but the birth itself was a crash c-section with spinal block haha
That's what I thought natural to me + vaginally
I completely agree and this is why I’ve been using terms like “medicated vs unmedicated birth, c-section” etc.
Yes I very much agree. I'll have people ask if my birth was natural and I'm just like well what do you even mean by that?? Honestly the term makes me uncomfortable because it implies there's also an "unnatural" way to give birth, which there is not. Also I dislike it because people are generally using it as a way to ask whether a delivery was vaginal or not. And if you aren't willing to use the term "vaginal" then maybe you just shouldn't be asking! Like "vaginal" is not a term we should be afraid of at all, but also if you don't feel it's appropriate in the context of the person you're speaking with, then yeah, you shouldn't be asking them at all lol.
All births are natural! I agree about using the term un/medicated. I’ve heard low intervention as another term.
Yes, I feel like low intervention is a much more useful term. It’s neutral, it’s descriptive, it’s clear!
I don’t like the term natural. I just like gave birth. I feel really uncomfortable disclosing to anyone vaginal versus c section (even my family). It just feels like none of their business and I’ve been SHOCKED by the amount of people who asked me which I had. If I say c section someone will inevitably tell me it was “the easy way out” which makes me feel like absolute shit as I’m already so disappointed I didn’t get a vaginal birth
Anybody who thinks a C-section is “the easy way out” has no idea what they’re talking about
Being a nurse, when I came back to work people were asking me if I gave birth vaginally and something just didn’t sit right with me when these people that I only talk to at work were asking me this. The term natural doesn’t bother me, but I understand that it’s not a concise use of language and why it’s really the incorrect term to use. When people asked I usually just told them I used a birthing center and most people realize that means I didn’t get a section and didn’t get pain meds. Those that don’t know would ask, and I would clarify.
i usually say "did i douche it out or get the baby cut out?" when people ask how i had my babies haha
But some people do have a “natural” birth. Like no pain meds, no epidural, no antibiotics, no Pitocin, no episiotomy, no vacuum or forceps, etc. So what are we supposed to call it to make others comfortable? - not a smart ass question since we’re talking about how “natural” makes some people uncomfortable.
There’s a lot of good discussion on this topic in the comments - there’s a massive disparity in how people even use the word natural. Some just use it to mean vaginal. Care providers don’t even agree on what it means! A sterile birthing pool isn’t “natural.” A fetal or maternal heart rate monitor isn’t “natural.” It is very very rare for someone to give birth these days without ANY medical intervention whatsoever - and that’s not even how most people use the term. At the end of the day, everyone is welcome to use whatever terms they please, including “natural” - but I think many have highlighted how slippery that definition even is.
Nothing about my pregnancy was natural. My baby was conceived in a Petri dish and delivered by emergency c section under general anesthesia. We pulled all the stops and we are both doing great, that’s all I care about.
At what point is freedom of speech and expression suffering at the altar of “inclusion”? At what point does recognizing and sitting with one’s own discomfort become relevant instead of expecting others to change their speech in really innocuous ways like this? I’ve seen this so much in the mom and fertility community and it’s getting SO out of hand! I’m the biggest proponent of inclusion and thoughtfulness but not at the expense of freedom of expression. There has to be a balance here! At what point is an actual natural birth honored? How are we minimizing one group of women’s experiences by trying to include another?
OMG YES! Thank you 👏👏👏 If a woman has a vaginal birth but it’s medicated, is that not “natural?” That’s a medicated birth, for example. I wish more people were aware of this!! I also don’t like “I conceived naturally” as an IVF mom. You conceived unassisted. I’ve done it both ways, but only had a live birth with the help of medicine.
Totally. Also, the “unassisted” conception of my fetus (9w2d) was actually pretty darn technologically assisted. I spent years googling fertility things. I used thermometers to learn that I have short luteal phases. I used ovulation prediction kits to time intercourse. I’m taking folic acid supplements (that’s a technology) because there’s no way in hell I can meet my folic acid needs through whole foods (too many first trimester food aversions). I’m taking unisom to manage my nausea so I can keep putting calories into this body that is incubating the fetus! Without all these technologies I’m not sure I would have much chance of ever carrying a pregnancy to term…
… I want to add that I’m not equating the difficulty of my conception experience with that of IVF. IVF sounds infinitely harder. I just wanted to say that I have a big debt of gratitude to the technologies I used to conceive.
Omg no worries at all! I appreciate your consideration. 💜💜
I think there isn’t a path to birthing a baby that is easy, completely painless and not in any way stress on the body. All forms of birth result in the birth of a new little human and are in their own way beautiful.
Honestly, who gives a shit what meds you do/don’t take? It’s not a flex either way.
Agree. All births are natural. You gave birth. Medicated v. Unmedicated, vaginal v. Cesarean are just details
i agree that natural is loaded and not specific.
Agreed. It's literally your choice completely. Sometimes, medication is recommended for other unrelated conditions as well. Nobody should have to feel bad if their birth plan has to change from a vaginal unmedicated birth to anything else for any other reason. Women shouldn't be seen as less than for choosing to suffer less and enjoy birth more if that's what they want. I've heard people feel like they "failed" when they carried their child full term and needed interventions. You did it! You had the baby! Nobody is better or worse for how a baby is delivered.
I just don't like it because it's too vague. Some people use it to mean vaginal, others use it to mean unmedicated, and some use it to mean spontaneous labor (usually spontaneous and unmedicated). "Unmedicated" is actually a vague term as well, usually people mean they didn't have any pain medication but sometimes they only mean they didn't have the epidural, or they may mean they weren't induced and didn't have pain meds. I don't know if an induction counts as "medicated" on its own anyway, I know there are some parts of the process that don't involve medication such as the balloon, but do synthetic hormones count as medication? Anyway I think being more specific is best just in terms of clear communication. I don't think of any of the terms mentioned as negative or positive (even "natural" or not), just often unclear.
There’s been a long history of vagueness and imprecision in English around this. Would you call your baby “born of woman” if you have a caesarean birth? I think most would but Shakespeare has it otherwise, much to Macbeth’s peril. > Be bloody, bold, and resolute. Laugh to scorn > The power of man, for none of woman born > Shall harm Macbeth.
My husband is a theater director and THRILLED with this reference
I had a water birth. I have been thinking that historically water births were probably really rare. It turns out they didn’t get popular until the 90s. Not exactly natural!
Thanks for this!
Yes! I’m a lactation consultant and never say “natural birth” and I’ve been vocal about how hurtful that term can be. All birth is natural whether it’s vaginal or abdominal (c-section), with pain medication or not.
Such an important conversation! I definitely feel like I fell into this trap and wanted a “natural” birth. After 53 hours of labor I ended up having to have an unplanned c section. I’m still processing the way I feel like I “failed” because my birth was not “natural”.
I disagree, medicated/unmedicated during a natural birth is one thing, but a cesarean is not natural. It is a medical procedure to ensure both mother and child are safe due to complications that have occurred. Birth is birth regardless of course and neither is any harder than the other, but they aren't both natural.
Nah I don’t think there’s a need to shame people for calling their birthing plan natural when they really mean that they want to reduce unnatural elements. You don’t need to take it personally. I’m not going to walk around saying vaginal all the time because I don’t want to. But I’m also not going to shame women by calling their birth “unnatural.” Let people describe their experiences how they want to. There’s no harm in that. Avoiding medications when possible is more natural and there’s nothing wrong with that, just as there’s nothing wrong with going the more medicalized route if that’s what you prefer or need.
I don't know, as someone who had an induced labor and an epidural, I can say straightforwardly, it was not a natural labor, and I'm not offended at all by the use of the term. Not everything is natural.
Thank you. I think it’s funny that this really just puts the term natural on a higher pedestal. Why can’t we just appreciate that all births are great and valid, even if they aren’t natural. Why is needing to be able to use that word so important?
Honestly I feel like it’s not totally realistic to expect people to change their language around this when a lot of OBs haven’t. I think it makes sense that people may use the word “natural” synonymously with “unmedicated” if that’s what their doctor does. If my care team is using a certain word I’m probably going to get used to using that word, and I think that’s probably more commonly the case than anyone trying to use the word to make their unmedicated birth experience sound superior to anyone else’s. Not to mention I think this argument is missing a crucial point: *women should be allowed to speak about their birth experiences however the hell they want to,* without feeling there’s a right or wrong way. There are enough people policing how we feel and talk about our bodies already! If someone wants to call their birth “natural” literally who cares. Unless someone is outright berating others for using medication during childbirth— ie “women who have medicated births are the worst!”— I think it’s a leap to imply that by simply using a term — especially one that is *very commonly used* by a lot of birth professionals — you’re shaming others’ birth experiences. I just don’t buy it. It’s fine to make changes to your own language, but why make other women feel there’s a *specific* way they must talk about birth? Why not just let them speak about it as they wish?
I’m speaking about how I wish to speak here, not telling other women how they should speak. And I’m outlining my thought process in how I got here. Others have also weighed in about how they feel and think similarly. That’s what Reddit is for!
Well but you said it’s “shame-y” when people use the word “natural.” Which implies that a woman who uses that word is inciting shame on someone else simply by using that word. I think that’s why some people are also reacting to your post the way I am.
I think a lot of people do feel like the word comes with some shameyness, particularly when it’s used to arbitrate people’s different definitions of “natural.” I think there’s value in people being able to express that they’ve felt shamed by it before. It doesn’t mean other people have to change their behavior - that’s up to them.
It leans on editorializing, that’s all I’m saying. People who use a term that is commonly used by doctors are not responsible for the fact that someone else might think the word has “shameyness,” (which I would say is an adjective with its own ambiguity… ?) I feel like most women are just trying to talk about their births, not be “shamey.” It’s not an inherently bigoted term or hateful word. I just think the argument is ironically judgemental.
yeah I get what you mean but I am also tired of always having to be politically correct or censor myself just to not hurt other peoples feelings. to be more clear yeah I get it, but to not hurt other peoples feelings, idk lol.
That’s up to each individual person! For me, I don’t feel like I’m being policed when I’m asked to reflect on my language and be more intentional about it. Sometimes I choose to run with that change, sometimes I choose not to. But I feel like part of being human is thinking about how I speak.
this is marxism, the changing of definitions and the moral relativity. there is, if words still have meaning, one truly natural way to birth, and that is one that is free of medication and medical intervention. if youre choosing interventions for yourself just be confident in your choices and call it what it is. nobody can shame you unless you allow them to. you dont have to hijack a term that people genuinely need to be able to use to accurately describe their personal experience. the experience of a natural birth is extremely different from that of a c section or epidural birth and mothers who have given birth naturally deserve not to have their terminology stolen from them in a way that makes it harder to express what they did. if everyone has had a natural birth just because they feel guilty or ashamed calling it anything else, then mothers who have truly given birth naturally are silenced. all experience is valid and should be able to be shared and described easily without having to play mind games or obey the woke terminology police.
lol it’s hardly “Marxism” to question the social definition of a word that is actually far less defined than you make it seem - there isn’t even consensus in the medical community of what “natural” means and if you read through this thread, I think you’ll see that there’s plenty of discrepancy in its interpretation here. It is used both as a synonym for vaginal and for unmedicated, and to cover the gamut of unmedicated birth with or without various interventions. It’s not nearly as binary as you’d make it seem, which is part of the necessity for discussing it.
I totally respect what other people feel about their births and I usually mirror the language they use for theirs but I also feel for myself that I prefer in some cases to differentiate between the birth I had that was home/natural/unmedicated/spontaneous and the one that was hospital/not natural/medicated/induced. They both played out differently and I’m certain that my choices to have a medical or non medical birth influenced that both times so I prefer using terms that lay that out clearly. Honestly, I really do not care how other people feel about my birth enough to adjust my language to accommodate their feelings about it. Happy to adjust my language when talking about someone else’s but not my own.
I think you should freely use the terms you prefer to use to describe _your_ birth experience, and if you want to call your birth a "vaginal unmedicated birth" then you should do so. But I would also add to be mindful of not policing others' language. If someone wants to describe her birth experience as "natural", that is her prerogative, and it _doesn't_ mean she's judging/shaming others or that she thinks her birth was "better" somehow, because "natural" != "better". I wanted a natural birth, but it did not work out. It's never offended me when others describe their birth experience as natural, and I've never considered it a slight towards me or my birth. I think if I felt offended by others' use of the term "natural", that would be my own issue and it's something I should work through on my own, rather than trying to police others' language. EDIT: Not saying OP is advocating to police others' language, it's just that her post made me think of it.
I love the word natural to describe birth… it really is a profound natural experience. The problem for me is that I don’t consider epidurals, inductions, or C-sections “unnatural.” Something being medical doesn’t mean it can’t be natural. Where do we draw the line? Is heart rate monitoring not natural? IV fluids? Getting swabbed with antiseptic and stitched up after? All that can be part of the experience of natural birth, along with pitocin, epidurals, and surgical intervention. That’s why I personally don’t like the use of the term natural when a person is trying to say “a specific birth experience happened for me.” It’s so nonspecific and vague. I just don’t think it’s useful as a descriptor at this point. I personally wouldn’t tell someone not to use the word natural if it feels right for them. I had a natural birth myself! With an epidural. ☺️
Totally agree and very well said!
Yeah, I mean I specified twice in my post that I’m not trying to police others language, but rather expressing something that has made me think personally lately
To clarify, I was not saying that _you_ were trying to police others' language. It's just that I've seen a ton of it (language policing) on reddit when someone uses the term "natural birth", so I wanted to reiterate that that is not ok, and your post made me think of it.
I agree with this. I think it's more so about tone and delivery (no pun intended). I was on the phone with my cousin, and she *asked* about my birth plan. I said, "I'll try to go as natural as possible if I stay low risk and my midwife approves". She immediately got offended at the term natural and went on a long scolding about how "natural" birth is irresponsible and that I should expect the worst and not be so close-minded. I wasn't aware that she had been induced and had an emergency c-section as we haven't talked in years. Had I said something along the lines of "natural is better", I could totally see why she would be offended, but I didn't. My mother describes her labors as "natural" even though she got an epidural, so some people might say that it wasn't. But like you said, that's *her* choice to describe it that way because that was *her* birth story.
Agreed. Your cousin seems to have her own hang-ups about her birth experience as compared to others, and that's something she needs to work through on her own, rather than taking it out on you!
I'm definitely with you on not feeling offended when someone uses 'natural' to describe a vaginal birth; I wouldn't call my C-section 'natural' at all. Of course, there are so many feelings and judgements of certain birth practices, but it really seems factual to call it natural.
What do you mean “all birth contains natural and unnatural elements to it”?
Unless you’re doing it naked in a cave with only a stick to bite down on and a handful of other cavewomen to grunt encouragement to you as you chew off the umbilical cord with your teeth, then at least some element of your birth is gonna be “unnatural”
THIS.
Idk if this is what OP meant, but basically all birth involves modern technology that wouldn’t have been available even a relatively short time ago - think fetal monitors, sterile gloves, or blood pressure cuffs.
100%
I mean someone can find pushing a baby out of their vagina to be an incredibly “unnatural” feeling, particularly if they’re the victim of sexual trauma, for example. Conversely, as someone else said well, getting a baby in distress out quickly via cesarean section can be the most “natural” way to do that! It’s a word that doesn’t define itself and the definitions that we project onto it are not always kind or helpful.
I mean… feeling it is unnatural is not the same as it being unnatural. No one is trying to fight someone that said “it felt unnatural to me”. I guess sure, yes, we can say trying to get a baby to live is natural, but that doesn’t make the process natural. It just feels like mind games and changing definitions. I understand seeking to be kind and caring to people’s experiences but these avenues feel disingenuous.
This is literally the preferred terminology from people who deliver babies - midwives and OBs - who feel like the term “natural” is ill-defined and non-medical. It’s changing for good reason and with support of the people closest to the process of childbirth.
The preferred terminology may be to not use the term natural or unnatural in the medical context at all. That’s different than calling anything we like/that is helpful “natural.” It May be the best course of action for the situation at hand — but that doesn’t make a C section is natural.
While I agree wholeheartedly I think some people including myself just don’t want to use the word vaginal at work etc. 😂
I think it actually becomes a really good heuristic! If you don’t feel comfortable saying “vaginal” in a certain environment, that’s probably not an environment that needs to hear that level of detail about your birth lol None of my coworkers know how my kid came out of me and I am fine with that, they just get baby pictures lmfao
100%
I agree with you but I think it's worth noting that a few people have asked me in passing if I plan on having a "natural" birth. I don't think they mean natural as in unmedicated...I think they might just not feel comfortable asking if I'll be having a "vaginal" birth. I usually just answer by telling them my goal is to have as few interventions as possible, but we will see how it goes! They've all been a good bit older than me, so maybe it's a generational thing? Either way, it's kind of a strange thing to ask lol but I don't mind as I am a notorious over-sharer, so if they catch me after the baby is born I will enjoy telling them all the juicy details.
Yeah my personal feelings on that are if they’re comfortable asking me how I’m getting a kid out of my body, they better be comfortable hearing the word “vaginal” lol but I know everyone doesn’t feel like that
You’re right about there being nuance to various delivery methods. But I cringe at the “we shouldn’t shame certain kinds of birth with language” spirit of your post. An *elective C-section* is completely unlike any of the others (emergency c-section, medically motivated planned c-section, vaginal with epidural, etc). People want to choose a form of delivery that the WHO is trying to limit, without any medical reasons to back the choice? If the law in your country allows it and you can afford it, fine. But coddling that? No way. It is not the same as the other birthing methods. And if someone’s ecstatic about their elective c-section, good for them. And if someone feels shame in that choice, they should look inwards, not blame the terms generally used by professionals and wider society.
Everyone is offended by something.
People say it because it’s shorter. It’s a lot to say or type out unmedicated birth with no interventions. That’s what I put online because I type fast and I don’t want to offend people. But truly nobody is actually trying to hurt anyone’s feelings by just saying “natural childbirth”.
Yes, this is why I expect "natural birth" to outlast the language policing trend. It's not just changing a single word. There is a lot of meaning tied up in natural. It's really not just vaginal vs c-section like a lot of people are suggesting.
I’m on board! I had a friend who had a C-section and she was very hard on herself because she “wanted to have him naturally”. Her water did break and she did try pushing. I’m like girl, your body naturally knew it was time for him to come out, you just needed some assistance. Don’t call it unnatural to have a C-section because it would have been unnatural to keep him in longer when your body instinctively knew it was his time to come out. I had a vaginal delivery a few months before her and I required an induction. I’m like we both needed assistance but naturally both babies needed to come out.
I don’t love the term natural and I don’t use it, but I get why it’s used in some contexts where someone is uncomfortable saying vaginal.
I had a vaginal birth, but it was an induction with an epidural! Very unnatural!
Yes I agree with your opinion. As someone who had epidural and emergency C section I'm quite happy with how my birth turned out as I had no plans on being unmedicated.
Crazy how everyone cares how you had the baby, why do people outside of your medical team even care? Strangers do not care how the child was conceived, they need to not care how they’re born. All that matters is everyone coming out of the birth alive and well. I am internally laughing at how I would respond if while pregnant I was asked if my pregnancy was natural or medically assisted.
My birth was as “unnatural” as they come: caesar under general anaesthesia. I didn’t meet my baby until he was two hours old. I was induced early due to cholestasis. He’s now two years old and I’m struggling to wean him. Natural? I don’t give a shit. I had a healthy baby. He’s thriving. Not lying, in a way I grieved that I didn’t have a “natural” birth experience but I was more glad me and baby were healthy. I count myself very lucky though.
I agree and always made a point to use the terms unmedicated & unassisted. They're much more clear and specific. But I also noticed that if you're not talking to a birth worker or fellow pregnant person they probably won't understand and I ended up following up with "like all natural basically" several times.
this! it never crossed my mind until i was talking to a coworker who every time i said “natural” she assumed i was talking vaginal, when i meant unmediated. since then i’ve been more deliberate with my words
Omfg........
Everyone means different things when they use the term ‘natural birth’. For me a natural birth is a vaginal birth with or without meds just because that’s the biological way a baby is usually but I know and have experienced that it can’t always be the case. No one should ever feel shamed for their birth.
Yes, there are descriptions that are more specific. However, ‘natural birth’ means vaginally without any medication. The shame-y feeling you mention should not be implied/assumed and/or the fault of the sayer- you decide how you take it. Feel free to alter your language. That doesn’t make it wrong for others not to.
That’s fine, if you read through this thread it’s extremely clear that about 50% of people think it just means “vaginally” while the other half think it means varying degrees of unmedicated.
I hear you. You stated a main point of being more descriptive, using terms correctly, so I felt it was important to clarify the terms/use in regard to meds.
The issue though is that there is no correct definition of natural birth - even the NIH and national college of obstetrics and gynecology don’t have an agreed upon definition as to whether it means no medication, limited medication, or simply a vaginal delivery
Yes, I’m aware and not arguing that. I was merely specifying the terms medicated, unmedicated more fully in the context of ways to amend language and discussion of birth- as you mentioned.
I think a lot of people have started saying “natural birth” in place of “vaginal birth” because vaginal is just a little uncomfy to say to certain people 😂like I don’t want to tell my father in law about my vaginal birth. People who go unmedicated are the ones who should be more descriptive.
Completely agree! “Natural” is also just confusing, because some people mean “vaginal” and others mean “unmedicated” when they say “natural.” Also, yes, all births are natural, whether it’s unmedicated vaginal or medicated c-section - it’s a woman having a baby no matter how it’s done!
I agree that "natural" can be confusing as far as medicated vs not. People use it for both situations. But I don't think cesarean is ever included in "natural birth". I know people who have a cesarean don't want their birth to be deemed "unnatural" but IMO "natural" means as it would occur in nature, and a cesarean is never going to occur in nature. IMO natural means both vaginal and unmedicated.
Also no hate on cesarean births. I may (God forbid) end up needing one, you just never know. But if I do end up having my son that way, I wouldn't ever say "his birth was natural, all births are". No, he would be surgically removed in that case.
I always thought people said natural birth for a vaginal birth.. and I've always told people I had a natural birth - even though I was induced? Does this mean it wasn't a natural birth? Genuine question -- I'm confused
I think what you’ll find based on this thread is that people use it to mean many different things - some people adamantly believe it’s not natural unless it’s unmedicated, others use it as a euphemism or stand in for vaginal. People can use whatever words they want, but this is a big part of why I think it’s kind of a frustrating term - it’s medically unspecific and everyone has different opinions about what it means, often at the negation of others’ experiences.
I almost completely agree. This terminology is far more inclusive and will help mothers process and accept their birth stories if they included unexpected or unwanted elements such as medications or other medical interventions that are deemed ‘unnatural’. Especially for those mothers who were aiming for a ‘natural’ experience. The only part I disagree with is the part where you said all birth has unnatural elements. I popped a baby out using nothing but my vagina. I would consider it 100% natural, but by no means am I saying it was in any way superior. It was simply what I chose to do and was what worked best for myself and my little family. I do still think your statement is like 99% true because very few women give birth the way I chose to lol. Every mother should choose whatever combination of ‘natural’ or otherwise, that she feels she wants and needs to ensure a safe and positive delivery! There are a million and one ways to birth a baby and they are all wonderful and deserving of equal acceptance and support.
I hear you, I think a better way of saying it is what each individual person considers “natural” and “unnatural” are somewhat subjective - I have heard people who are victims of sexual trauma feel like pushing a baby out vaginally is retraumatizing and deeply “unnatural” for them. “Natural” can mean “from nature,” but it can also mean “innate” or “wholistic” and I think many people don’t identify vaginal birth with those terms for myriad reasons.
I totally agree. I think this just reinforces how unhelpful these terms are in describing a birth experience.
Did you give birth in the hospital? Or get an IV, stitches, Tylenol? If so, do you still consider what you got a natural birth? I don't disagree with you--just curious what your thoughts are on this. Some folks have brought it up (e.g., how fluid IV, for example, makes it less natural) on this thread and I never thought about it that way. And it has me thinking, "what does natural even mean?"
No I delivered at home. I did not tear so no stitches. No IV. No equipment. I literally just pushed and a baby came out lol. That’s why I consider it natural, because there would have been absolutely no difference had I given birth 1000 years ago in a clay hut. I think the terms natural and unnatural have a place in birth terminology, but they aren’t the most inclusive options. I personally consider ‘natural’ to be anything that would occur in nature, without humans creating it. So I would technically consider an IV, any form of pharmaceutical, or modern equipment like a doppler or other types of monitoring to all be unnatural, because none of that occurs naturally. I would also consider the phone I’m using to type this to be unnatural, as well as the shower I use to clean myself, and the stove on which I cook my food, etc. Modern science offers many comforts and benefits. This is why I think applying these words to birth can be confusing and sometimes seem unkind, as for some reason, there is a stigma in some communities about how using unnatural birth interventions is somehow wrong, which I don’t agree with. All the different birth options and plans are a spectrum. Natural and unnatural are just two options that fall within the spectrum, which is why I agree with OP that these words are too vague and just not appropriate for the context. They mean different things to different people. I prefer more specific words like ‘unmedicated’, ‘vaginal’, ‘Caesarian’ etc. While I have a personal definition of natural vs unnatural, I also completely agree with you, what does it actually mean?
Thank you!! All birth is natural - some has more medical intervention than others, but it’s all natural!
I don’t agree with this. Sometimes death is the natural thing. There’s nothing wrong with things that are not natural.
This is a truly wild thing to say?
She’s right, death is natural. A C section may not be ‘natural’ but it saves lives and that’s all that matters. ‘Natural’ doesn’t mean morally superior.
100%, this push to insist that all birth is natural simply comes from the misnomer that natural = superior. It's not. It's amazing that we have so many tools and interventions available to us to help save the lives of mothers and babies! But it is not all natural. That is NOT a bad thing. Natural is not always better. I am not sure why so many people in this thread keep saying that "natural is a loaded term" when it... isn't? It just means naturally occurring/not invented by mankind. Spontaneous vaginal deliveries without medications would be the natural way to give birth. It doesn't mean it's shaming someone else who needed additional interventions, whatever those may have looked like. Same with natural vs assisted conceptions. There's no reason to tell people not to say they conceived naturally when that is just a fundamental fact. It doesn't mean people who needed medications or procedures to conceive are wrong or inferior... they just needed help from science. It's pretty awesome we have those options!
Why?
PREACH
To me natural means absolutely no medical intervention. No pills no cuts no injections. But vaginal , cesarean, medicated , unmedicated is more specific
That’s exactly why I think the term natural is so useless, outside of the birth being a natural miracle for us all. You use it to mean “no pills cuts or injections” other people mean “stitches and antibiotics, but vaginal and no epidural” and some people mean “vaginal, but with an epidural” and any long list of things. It’s not a defined term, and when we try to define it more specifically, there’s a rabbit hole… are antibiotics natural? Are stitches natural? Is using scissors rather than your teeth to cut the cord natural?
Yea true it also can make people feel bad cause the opposite of natural is unnatural and medicated ,cuts etc isn’t unnatural
i used the term natural in a post once and i never thought about any negative dictation behind it until someone commented. in my mind as a FTM my mind thought ‘natural’ as with no medical intervention or medication, until someone explained it to me that one could take it as me saying any other way is ‘unnatural’ - genuinely i had no idea. i guess it’s just me being naive in a way. i could never think of someone shaming someone for getting medication, or having a c-section, but that’s me again being naive i reckon
I agree with using more specific wording. lol. One of my partners friends isn’t comfortable saying “vaginal”, even in text, so that is what she means by “natural birth”. It was confusing at first because I have always been taught that to mean birth without external medical interventions. Always good to clarify.
It’s hard for me to understand being prepared to push a baby out of your vagina without being prepared to say the word but to each their own!
Agreed, she has been unable to conceive up to now unfortunately, but once she is ready, those conversations with her doctor will very likely be uncomfortable for her.
When people asked me with my first whether it was a “natural” birth I used to say “well she came out of my vagina if that’s what you mean?” She was ventouse and labour was augmented with pitocin. Natural birth is a stupid term. I only use vaginal. I also think “delivery” is a weird term too. It’s a birth, you gave birth. A doctor didn’t deliver the baby it’s not a pizza
I actually read a really interesting post here a while back— can’t guarantee it’s true— but it said that the origin of the term delivery was used in the sense of “delivered from evil.” So the doctor actually delivers the mother from the pain of child birth to use that term the way it originated. Still weird, but cool lol
Yeah I always wanna laugh when women say natural birth like it’s a badge of honor as opposed to getting meds/c section. I always want to comment and ask what an unnatural birth is and why “natural birth” is even a phrase. I see it all the time like “I had a natural birth with all 6 my kids” weird flex but okay lol 😂 I got an epidural and idk if that means it wasn’t natural but if you want to scream bloody murder and feel every tear through labor that’s cool, I smiled up at my husband and cried happy painless tears as I pushed and I’d take that unnatural birth all day over the pre epidural experience I had 😂😂😂 and I think at the end of the day however you do it if you and baby are healthy than that’s the right way- your body your choice but don’t shame
Sorry, but I call my birth “natural” and am going to keep doing so. It was natural, unmedicated, no interventions, no exams, etc. If my next birth requires medication etc, I won’t be calling it a natural one and I’ll feel gratitude about that. Because if I require a hospital transfer, that means that my “natural birth” would’ve involved the small chance of me dying from natural causes or something else of that nature (ie natural CS rate should only be 2-5%, not the 70+% it was at my hospital, but indeed it isn’t 0% and people most definitely died of natural childbirth prior to modern medicine). Why would you assume it’s meant to shame?
Im repeating what OBs and midwives have said to me - that they don’t prefer it any longer because it’s an ill-defined term even within the medical community, and “natural” isn’t an accurate synonym for “without medical intervention.” And if you spend time on pregnancy forums it’s absolutely sometimes used to mean “vaginally” and sometimes used to mean “without medication” and people in the latter camp can become pedantic and corrective when they feel it’s used incorrectly. You’re welcome to do whatever you’d like, and no one’s stopping you! I’ve been grateful to hear the linguistic shift in my care providers personally.
Your case seems to be very uncommon. If you got no stitches, cervical checks etc. It seems as though 99% of folks using the term "natural," aren't applying such a rigid definition. I don't have much of an opinion on it--just find it interesting.
I think some folks are missing the point of this thread. Of course, you can use whatever term you want. Just know that the terms you use can negatively affect other people (you may or may not care about this). The OP was simply bringing this to people's awareness.