There’s been a decline in *everything* standards to be honest. Driving standards are shit, customer service is getting worse and worse, people don’t know how to behave in cinemas and theatres… even my doctor’s surgery has apparently seen a huge uptick in patients *physically attacking* nurses and GPs.
Katherine Ryan has talked about how comedy gigs are now having to hire security to handle rowdy crowds, things like people getting drunk and fighting each other in the audience. She said they’d never have to have security for a bog standard comedy crowd before.
I do think there is something in the reduction in the number of third spaces, ie somewhere other than home or work where you’d interact with other people like shopping malls, youth groups, pubs etc, which means we’re getting increasingly siloed and not learning or forgetting basic social constructs.
In the past, you’d generally know the people you lived near or there’s a chance you’d get to know them, or there would be more the general social shame from behaving badly, which we don’t have as much any more and hence people are behaving badly, cause there are fewer consequences
spent the last month trying to get through to HMRC,
if you want encouragement to either top yourself or find their HQ and burn it down please give it a go - fucking omnishambles.
You joke but I genuinely think stuff like this is part of the cause.
I was talking to my mum recently who was saying when she was younger, businesses and public services were generally straightforward with you. You could call them if you had a problem, you'd get a refund if something broke.
Now we have a Khafka-eqsue nightmare of call centres and companies willfully flouting their own obligations and contracts. They put on a song and dance about how much they care and then bend over backwards to frustrate any attempt to get them to actually deliver on their promises.
It gets people understandably maddened and erodes the social contract.
of course it is, which is why we are seeing a huge increase in all the bad .....isms again, this government have normalised lying, our utilities - that are a key factor in social growth and prosperity - are charging so much the govt has to step in whilst at the same time making record profits???? Our rivers and lakes and coastal destinations are choking on our own shit whilst the water companies are paying out hundreds of millions in dividends.
Why the fuck should i be honest and truthful and law abiding? HMRC lets million/billionaires pay a far lower effective tax rate than me but they come after me for, and im not shitting you, £2.70.
Im thinking of writing a book - PAYE is for schmucks, i reckon it will be a bestseller.
i just dont know how to deal with it - the online "community" help isnt working "click here to tell us somethings wrong" takes you to a page that says "that didnt work there must be something wrong" so thats a dead end, try to call and after giving the bot your entire history so "i can properly direct the call" it says they are too busy and i should piss off an call back at some point in the future - so i can be offended all over again.
Mad doesnt cover it.
i mean im managing it just about fine, depends where you live.
but no question my standard of living is in the bin compared to what it was, glad i took my car on a 3 year HP back in 2019, because there no chance i could afford the house and the car if i was to buy it today.
"Managing fine" and having a decent standard of living is not the same.
I'm managing too but it doesn't change the fact that living standard has dropped through the floor. I'm living alone and spending about 1500 a month on rent, bills, insurance, food and fuel... Because fuck me if I want to do something more than just sleep, work and commute right?
Housing market in particular is fucked beyond comprehension, I thought it was bad couple months ago but it's only gotten worse, 3 bedrooms remotely near a big city you're looking at 1000p/m, a room in a house share will run you easily 500p/m, it's actual insanity.
but you only said
>If you earn less than 30k a year you can forget to live on your own because you won't be able to afford it.
I can and do afford it, in a 2 bed, 15 minute drive from the centre of one of the top 5 largest cities in the UK. and i dont pay much more than £500/m for my mortgage.
In an ideal world, yes, but it's hard to be nice when you are constantly stressed and barely making ends meet, I try to be nice and considerate anyway, but a lot of people struggle with it and I can see the affect it has on the people around me
To an extent. The way this is framed is almost saying "life is tight and a bit shit ATM, that means it's ok for people to twat medical staff and drive like cunts".
I know that is likely not what anyone means, but they aren't THAT intertwined.
Well they sort of are intertwined like that, but it also doesn't justify it. The problem is the media makes out that doctors and nurses striking causes massive financial issues, when actually it's an excuse to take attention away from bankers, CEOs and some politicians who allow the money to be taken from the poorer people and given to the richest, while the richest get tax breaks and non taxable bonuses, so the poor then think the medical professionals are to blame so when there's a small issue, it turns into a big issue because of the misconceptions we are fed by those who actually cause, and could solve, out issues
We are made to hate each other so we don't hate those who are actually to blame, if this wasn't the case we would be hating the people causing issues which would actually make things better
What a ridiculously out of touch take.
People stop giving a shit when they see their income taxed to hell and a decline in every single service they are paying to be provided with whilst simultaneously being mocked by a govt who have money to throw at seemingly everything except the people who actually voted them in
Nah, people are forced not to give a sh#t about the simple niceties because they are worried about how they will make the next mortgage payment and how the entire country is f#cked if we faced another pandemic or another world war. people aren't earning less money because people are rude or inconsiderate, people are ruder because you have to be out for yourself to get anything right now and that mindset changes how people do everything
>people are ruder because you have to be out for yourself to get anything right now
Have you noticed rude, agressive confrontational people getting better service, better jobs than articulate, pleasant people that can get on with people around them? Because I certainly haven't.
I literally have been victim to it, if you don't make a fuss you don't stand out so you are easier to ignore, but someone making a stink about it has to be shut up one way or another. . . .
It's certainly not right, but it does happen. The prime example was when I was working for a marquee company, if you didn't go to the boss and demand he pay you or else you won't come in, he would pay you last, which could be weeks away, if you were rude to him you'd get paid, which meant he took advantage of us nice and hard working individuals while the assholes were paid up to date. It's an extreme example but it happens
The decision makers and money takers who f#ck us all over and tell us to blame one another, not the bankers and CEOs who refuse to take a smaller bonus or wages so their workers can afford a home
Social trust is objectively and measurably declining. Robert Putnam's "Bowling Alone" is US based and 20 years old but the trends have mostly done nothing but continue and it applies here too.
The "intermediary" institutions have rotted out (clubs, churches, charities). Young people barely have children, they can't afford family homes. Real terms wages have been stagnant since about 05, we have a decreasing conception of being a cultural monolith with shared morals etc. People move homes radically more than in the past, disrupting community formation...
The list is basically endless and it's not just generic "old person complaining" shit, there are crystal clear metrics we can look at even if the broadest notion of "social cohesion" is woolly. And I'm in my 20s anyway.
What we're really seeing is our country become a very raw and transactional place. It's like arthritis or running an engine without enough oil. There has always been movement to and from towns and cities, and cities are always more "anonymous" than rural villages, but the extent is historically unparalleled.
All with a schizophrenic social media landscape where people scream into a void. We've basically watched all the historic order and structure - whatever its failings - be melted away and replaced with nothing. And we're just meant to live in this deranging post modernity where there is no underlying construct or direction. And people seem to be getting more feral by the day.
Anyway, back to cars.
Our culture is collapsing because we tell ourselves it isn’t a good culture and work to destroy it. People are soon to see the alternatives and they will not like them.
I would even say things taste like shit compared to a few years ago, movies and tv shows just aren’t that great these days either. It’s like everything is going to shit slowly
whilst at the same time the rich getting obscenely richer, everyday costs through the roof, energy costs so high the govt has to step in whilst at the same time energy firms making record profits - dont think i'll ever be able to square that circle in my head.
I will say, I've stopped giving so much leeway to people in middle or right hand lanes. If there's a gap on their left, and I *Can* get around them, I do.
The amount of people with poor lane discipline is awful. Two wrongs don't make a right, But I also don't care.
Lack of visible road policing has to be a huge factor. Years ago travelling from Liverpool to Manchester I'd regularly see two or three police cars. Now, I can travel the length and breadth of the country and not see one.
People seem to be incredibly selfish these days and this seems to be getting worse. I suppose this translates into declining standards in everything.
agreed, selfish as they know they will get away with it.
Was just cut off this morning by a waste wagon, fully liveried up, with the driver holding his phone base to his ear whilst turning across me - and no seatbelt either, easy to spot as he was wearing high viz and he was bloody close.
only visible plod will fix it.
> Lack of visible road policing has to be a huge factor.
Definitely. There seems to be no consequence to being a bell-end, so why not regress to your base self?
Well exactly. Look at the post above from a bell-end bragging he undertakes and doesnt care. Im not condoning driving in the overtaking lanes, but driving dangerously by undertaking isnt the answer either. Visible policing of the motorway is a start. Not just to deal with middle lane hoggers but dangerous drivers
I drove a new car from Durham to Swansea the other week. I think I saw a total of two Police cars on the whole journey, one interceptor going the other way on the motorway, and a patrol van in a random village in the middle of Wales.
Where I am you only see the police after 6pm if they are going to a call out. Maybe in the summer they will get the horses out and go for a ride around the parks but I honestly couldn't tell you the last time I saw one on foot.
I started driving in 2016, and I used to sort of joke to myself that if I saw 1 police car on a journey of more than about an hour or so, then I could basically do whatever I want as I'd be guaranteed to not see another.
Now I regularly do 3+ hour journeys and don't see any...
As someone who moved back to the UK in 2020 after living & driving abroad almost everyday for 10 years. The standards are pretty high however there's 3 things I see:
1 - There are some people who genuinely make mistakes on the road e.g. a young woman who changed lanes without looking yesterday & almost ran into my right side, either I was in her blindspot or she just didn't check properly, then she indicated after switching lanes likely just nervous & clearly a genuine mistake (thankfully I kept reasonable distance)
2 - There are people who are consistent idiots on the road - like the mini driver who last night cut in and out of the lane in front me on a roundabout around 3 times cause he was too lazy to use the steering and keep to his lanes (I used the horn the last time as he was clearly just being an idiot and was coming a bit closer to me than I liked)
3 - People bringing their shit driving from abroad, I've seen it mostly in Asian areas like Southall, Green Street, Leicester.
My partner doesn't feel comfortable in these areas cause she's seen how shit these people drive. Sheer disregard for following the driving laws whether it be speed, parking, stopping safely in these areas. It reminds me of the discourteous driving at home, which leads to significant congestion and accidents.
I think the last one is the biggest concern as where I'm from in a tiny island there are a huge number of road deaths from people disregarding driving laws & rules. I think stricter enforcement in these areas to stamp out bad driving is highly needed.
On point 3, I agree - in places like Hounslow and Southall, the Deliveroo riders on their e-bikes will be riding counter traffic in the wrong lane then swerve left without looking to get into the correct lane to make a turn
Having spent time in India, that’s exactly the type of move that’s normal out there but not normal here!
Immigration goes up, shit driving standards go up, jobs like uber, deliveroo, amazon, evri - predominantly employ these people, so you got them driving round on mopeds and in clapped out vans that probably aren't even road legal, on driving licenses earned in countries with shitter standards. It's plain as fucking day when you're out on the roads. Everything has a knock on.
I concur. Bradford drivers have made me buy a dashcam. Next door neighbour has had 3 cars written off in 4 years by uninsured drivers around West Yorkshire
After driving in Belgium I can concur... Those mad bastards drive 120kph bumper to bumper, on potholed motorways with lanes narrower than my garden path.
Conversely I had the absolute opposite experience in Belgium / The Netherlands.
Smooth, looked after roads, INCREDIBLE Lane discipline (If you were slightly approaching on someone they would move over) with very little roadworks / traffic jams / pointless 50 zones for air pollution.
All of Belgium is shit it just depends where you were and the time of day.
Lived there 18-22 so during COVID and jesus, on the A12 between Antwerp and Brussels it was a hail Mary every time, main issue is people there up until relatively recently didn't need to do a test they could go to the gemeenteheuis and get their licence by filling out a form!
Also motorway structure, cars coming on to the road via sliproads like in the UK but then they also have exits from the fast lane so people will swerve across 4 lanes to get to an exit and shit ha
Which countries are these because most of Europe are terrible in my experience, maybe only Norway was more sensible from all the countries I've driven in
I worked in Greece and my cheapo company book a flight to Athens instead of the local airport, consequently had a 6 hour transfer in a Greek taxi in the biggest thunderstorm I have ever seen, didn’t end for the entire trip. And this mad bastard was driving in convoy like I was the US president. 140 kph bumper to bumper in torrential rain.
Sounds about right! Were there hairpin turns up and down mountains? 😆 Buses going the other way at 140kph too!
I'll never forget the first bus journey I made in Greece...
One of the most dangerous decline in standards I'm seeing is: people stopping at EVERY junction. When first starting my lessons my instructor hammered me with just doing junctions - roundabouts, T junctions, every single turn from a road - until I could assess the oncoming situation and safely enter traffic without stopping. This ability or skill seems to be fading away, and I'm seeing a lot of people stopping at clear junctions and empty roundabouts before entering.
I was in Warsaw the other week and the driving over there was noticeably more 'wild west'.
Suspect increasingly busy roads may be having an effect over here, but standards are still relatively high compared to other places I've driven.
You're not wrong, as of two years ago I spend 50% of my work time driving (20hrs a week) and I have seen the quality drop on it's ass.
This really does vary depending on where you go though, I spend the majority of my time in Hertfordshire and it isn't awful, the odd selfish tesla/merc/BMW dipshit driving like they own the road but other than that it isn't too bad.
Head over to Luton/London and it's fucking horrific, people running red lights, cutting up everywhere, shitty parking, mass speeding and overall terrible driving.
Now if you head to Cambridge, it's a real pleasure to drive there, it's literally night and day, everyone is doing exactly what they should be doing, using indicators, being nice and driving sensibly.
come and have trip to Bradford - red lights and one way systems completely ignored, mega mile German and Lexi at maximum attack all over the place - its terrifying.
I live and drive most of my time in Herts and the surrounding area and in all honesty I think it’s pretty similar everywhere except massive population centres. Luton and London are one and the same in standards from what I’ve seen.
In Herts it’s not so much running lights and cutting up it’s just sheer cluelessness, no checking junctions, poor or non existent lane discipline and just generally dithery idiots who can’t read speed limit signs, make decisions or commit to manoeuvres etc.
I think this in turn leads to more people seaming to “own the road” as they one, dont want to be near those drivers in their nice cars, two, are competent and ironically hold a decent standard of driving. Obviously this standard dips when they start driving like assholes because the are impatient.
As someone who drives a nice car with the horsepower to pass most others safely and quickly, and while definitely not the best, is someone who is a very competent driver, if you’re dithering, all over the place etc. I will pass you given the opportunity just to be away from you, not because I’m in a rush.
>As someone who drives a nice car with the horsepower to pass most others safely and quickly, and while definitely not the best, is someone who is a very competent driver, if you’re dithering, all over the place etc. I will pass you given the opportunity just to be away from you, not because I’m in a rush.
Bingo! I've done my fair share of firm Tesla overtakes. Not out of any feelings of aggression or recklessness (far from it, tbh). It's because I've had the misfortune to be first on the scene of two separate, serious road accidents and it's not an experience I'd like to repeat.
I'd rather leave the vicinity of these absolute liabilities as soon as possible.
One thing that really drives me mad is people who do 40 in a 60 (National speed limit) stretch, but carry that 40 into a 30? Maybe do 55/60 in the 60 and 30 in the 30!
My recent frustration is just because you can get your front out before I come round the roundabout, your car is right in front of my exit as I do come round, you plonker.
Lack of patience and/or pride to learn how to do something properly.
Take a look at the learner drive subreddit and it's full of people asking if it's worth travelling to some remote town where the pass rate is higher thinking they'll have an easier time instead of just learning how to drive well...
Expensive housing, poor public transport and a shift to a gig economy are putting a lot of people on the road more than they probably should be. Councils are also making driving and parking more difficult without offering a realistic alternative.
Combine it with enforcement being left to speed cameras, it's no wonder it's going a bit Mad Max.
I think a lot of people (who didn't want to, and should not) started driving post Covid. A lot of the *good* driving comes from experience and a willingness to learn. I don't think most of the newer drivers have either.
Additionally, a lot of people who got stuck in built up metros (*cough* London *cough*) decided that they didn't want to risk being locked in again, so moved out to the leafy suburbs, bringing all that big-city energy with them. Some of that energy filters in to their driving, and it shows.
It's covid messing a small percentage of people up. It really doesn't take that much of a bump in reckless driving for roads to feel noticeably different, as they are so busy, so there's more opportunities for you to see people being careless.
There's a whole host of behavioural and neurological symptoms that can cause poor driving. We have plenty of evidence now that covid can cause these symptoms.
If there are no consequences people learn they can do what they like without recourse. My area used to have over 200 traffic officers, there’s now 27 with an increase in road users. Lots of people do what they need to get a licence then don’t care and won’t learn from their mistakes or remedy them. Driving it’s a means of A-B for them, there no passion for improvement.
Behaviourally people don’t care, there’s no shame. Lots of entitlement and selfishness. Again little consequence if they do something bad. You have to be particularly naughty to get a prison term.
I do feel that most people are ok it’s just those who are entitled and selfish stand out more and there are loads of them so it’s noticeable every time you go out or online.
Think about America which is much further along the 'fuck you, I've got mine' timeline. They have skid row, endless road rage incidents. Karens coming out of their ears. Medical bills and no insurance? You're fucked, soz. We are now noticeably catching up with the USA and it's due to a massive decline in quality of life, spending power and hope. If the trains don't work, the potholes are everywhere, you can't get a doctor's appointment, your kids' school is now a privatised education company, your wages are flat in the face of rampant inflation, your mood sours. Brexit's knocked GDP back. There's less tax take, so there's less to spend on services. The nation is tired of running really hard to stand still or go backwards, and the end result is we all become a bit more cunty.
A rubbish lorry overtook a bicycle on a country road coming towards me this morning and both the cyclist and I had to slam on our brakes to make sure one of us didn’t die.
Everyone round me is shit. Nobody indicates, nobody can stay in their lane on a roundabout, reckless overtakes, it’s insane.
There has been a huge cultural shift toward being self-centered and hostile, aggressive, and violent by default.
You're free to speculate what has influenced it ;)
Why can’t people indicate to come off the roundabout? It’s no good indicating to go around if I’m sat there missing every opportunity because every bellend won’t indicate to come off
I think over-reliance on technology plays a part in this, just generally making drivers lazier and also making driving more monotonous where your attention starts to drift.
Technology like blind spot warnings, lane assist, auto braking etc are great but also not infallible. I’ve noticed an increase in people merging onto motorways without checking their blind spots (and an increase in drivers that don’t seem to know when they’re in someone’s blind spot!), or people reversing out of a parking bay staring forwards at the reverse camera and not once looking around to see the spots the camera can’t see.
I guess it’s similar to when people used to over-rely on early shit Sat-Navs and drive into lakes because the satnav said they need to go that way, and they don’t bother using their eyes.
The decline in driving standards is almost solely the fact there are an ever increasing number of drivers on the roads. More drivers = more opportunity for shit drivers.
Its also a good reason why roads just seem to get worse, or why motorway congestion gets worse. There's just so much more cars every year in general.
The child, now 24, took her test at 17, we had already bought her a car, we are very rural, so its a must. I kept well away from the instruction side, as its not easy or infact sensible for a parent to get involved. I did go out with her a couple of times after she passed, I was really concerned that she was driving outside of her envelope of ability. This was not her, it was the instruction process. I speak as a class 1 driver and a national instructor with many years experience.
Bad driving is as old as driving itself but it may seem worse because the amount of drivers on the road is ever increasing. And with more traffic comes more frustration in some.
It's hell out there at the moment, with motorways being especially bad. People see to gravitate towards the central res far more than they ever did. Utter morons driving at 58mph in lane 3 of 4 in some unremarkable SUV type thing, not a care in the world, getting in everyones way and generally causing chaos because the majority of people in lanes 1 and 2 aren't clever enough to just keep going in their lane and seem to feel the need to move to lane 4 to overtake Derek and Margaret in their 73 plate MG-3, meaning further tailbacks.
A lack of readable signs and markings on the roads is contributing to the stress levels of those who can’t go round a roundabout in lane without lines to guide them
As someone who has driven blue lights for the best part of 15 years, I can confirm there is a massive difference in driving standards, lack of courtesy and lack of acknowledgement of emergency vehicles. To me it feels like an overall increase in selfishness, the most important person on the road mentality, don't get in my way or slow me down. The roads are full of main characters, it gets quite disheartening when I'm held up on way to emergencies due to said selfishness.
For me the 2 most noticeable changes have been an increase in people just straight up going through red lights and a huge increase in really unsafe speeding.
There's always been people who cut it a bit fine at traffic lights and go through just after it's gone red but now it seems like those people go through then another 2 cars follow them when the light is definitely red and traffic in the other direction has already started moving.
People have always speeded and I will admit I don't follow the limits exactly all of the time but now there seems to be a huge increase in people driving at ridiculous speeds in areas where it's definitely not safe. I don't mean someone going 60 on a 50 road but people going 50-60 in residential areas where there's cars double parked making the road effectively 1 lane.
I wouldn't say they have declined, there have always been good and bad drivers on the road. The driving test is harder than ever to pass so theoretically it should be slowly improving.
The problem is there's a lot more traffic on roads which are increasingly more poorly maintained. Cities become busier and the road infrastructure isn't kept up.
There's also a lot of drivers on the road who didn't pass their test in the UK so may have been taught different approaches to certain situations.
Cars are also larger and people tend to rely on safety systems rather than their own driving skills so are likely less attentive.
The people who complain about other drivers though usually get into situations because of their own lack of forward planning and anticipation. If you're constantly getting into bad situations, even if you don't think you caused them it may be time to take some advanced training. If you always expect everyone else on the road to do the most stupid thing imaginable then you tend to avoid these types of situations.
My driving instructer drilled that last part into me. I expect everyone around me to be a complete fucking idiot on the road, and am prepared for them to do dumb shit like pull out, cut across the motorway etc.
Alot of the incidents on Youtube of dashcam clips could be avoided if people stop driving with the mindset that everyone else will follow the highway code and drive the way they were taught.
To be fair I'm the same but it doesn't stop me commenting on what I see happening around me from a safe distance.
Those dashcam videos people post of them speeding up on roundabouts and then getting in a tizzy that the car that was pulling out before they got anywhere near them is still there boil my piss.
> There's also a lot of drivers on the road who didn't pass their test in the UK so may have been taught different approaches to certain situations.
Are there many countries who can do a straight swap? My wife is taking lessons at the moment as her US license is only valid for a year.
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/which-countrys-driving-licences-can-be-exchanged-in-the-uk/#:~:text=These%20include%20the%20countries%20of,Ukraine%2C%20United%20Arab%20Emirates%2C%20and
You’d be surprised how many there are. I have personally experienced the horrendous driving standards in the UAE and Zimbabwe, but their license holders can just rock up to a straight swap.
It's one thing to pass the driving test. Maintaining your skill level, and in general abiding by what you've been taught is another thing. Most people get their license, and proceed to throw everything they've learnt out of the window.
This. The UK should scrap the license exchange scheme that allows non uk qualified drivers to exchange theirs. Having countries like Zimbabwe with their horrendous driving on there just due to some colonial apologetic is ridiculous.
I think it's partly due to allot of folks being really self entitled nowadays. In general, most people have zero respect for one another. Ironically and this may just be my personal experience. But I find the older folks ruder than young people.
This translates into their driving. Rules of the road become optional. It's now a daily occurrence for me to witness tailgating, not indicating, blasting through roundabouts, poor lane discipline, and in general "shit" driving.
I've took it upon myself to confront some people about their driving. I would say in the past year, I've confronted about five people. Four of which immediately became defensive, and starting swearing/getting aggressive.
Only one lady I spoke to, was genuinely apologetic about tailgating and said quote "I didn't think I was following too closely. But I will be sure to take note of that when driving." and we proceeded to have a polite conversation about safe following distances.
I'd also go as far to say the gap between men, and women in terms of driving is almost none existent now. I find woman just as bad as men on the roads now.
Nope, not always. Countries like the UAE for example have agreements with the UK to straight up convert their licence to a full British one without a test. Check on www.gov.uk/driving-nongb-licence and look at the list of designated countries on question 3.
I used to live in the UAE for a while (albeit it’s been 10 years since I left). I don’t think their driving standards and level of courtesy to other road users (cars or pedestrians) is up to the UKs level. And it’s quite common for drivers to not give way at zebra crossings there.
Not to mention, they simply don’t have some of the road scenarios that we do such as mini roundabouts, narrow lanes where you’re expected to work together to help traffic flow, waiting in a junction to turn (they always have filter arrows at junctions).
Having passed my test recently I'd say exactly the opposite. The test itself doesn't really test your ability to drive anymore, and seems largely luck based. If you can do the few simple things that the examiner wants and don't screw up too badly then you get a pass. With a large number of instructors just focused on getting their pupils to pass, important driving skills get overlooked because they likely won't come up in the test anymore. Comparing it with tests that people I know took 10 or 20 years ago, my lessons and test were a complete joke.
Since passing my test I've been shown so many things that I was taught incorrectly, and realised so many things that I did in the test that should have caused me to fail but didn't. It's scary to think about how many drivers there are like me that passed their test and so now assume they know how to drive. I'm lucky that I have a dad that is able and willing to teach me all the things I did not learn before passing, but most people don't have someone like that or wouldn't think to ask for such help, and so are an accident waiting to happen without even realising it.
I'm not sure they have decliend tbh. There have been good drivers and shit drivers for the 30 years I've been behind the wheel and people have been complaining about "drivers these days are terrible" for that entire time.
Agreed, I’ve recently passed my C1 license so I can start an ambulance secondment. The instructor who I was with said it’s the worst standard of driving he’s ever seen and the amount of selfishness he sees daily has gone up.
Yep I live rurally & the amount of cars on the road in my 20yrs of driving has quadrupled & then some it's wall to wall traffic round my local town the roads weren't made for the amount of traffic, I gave up a while ago giving a fuck about anyone else but me so I just go for it to get to where I'm going a quick as possible with as little hassle as possible
I hate driving now unless it's in the middle of the night/very early morning
The first lockdown was heaven it was like driving 20yrs ago bloody wonderful
try driving in scotland, especially on 1 lane passing place roads, jesus christ, they cannot drive, they do not understand the road, they do not know how to control their vehicle and have no idea about the size of their vehicle
if you want to see the state of the uk driver in action crystallised, head up to the highlands in the summer.
since 2020 the world has lost all substance and meaning in my opinion, the way we handled that year was … bizarre to say the least. it turned everyone into bitter selfish twats
I'd noticed the same thing. I've seen much more crazy stuff since lockdown.
The worst I've seen is that it now seems to be optional to join the motorway from the slip road. Lots of people just continuing up the hard shoulder before they push in.
What has genuinely surprised me is cars at junctions. Its literally like driving in New Delhi or something. I remember some years ago drivers waiting patiently for a gap or a car to let them in. But now it's like first to the junction goes straight in type of scenario. They see you coming and just turn in ! FFS
It's COVID.
* [Even mild cases of COVID can cause brain injury](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-19-leaves-its-mark-on-the-brain-significant-drops-in-iq-scores-are/).
* COVID causes brain injury that [lasts for months after infection](https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20231229/covid-may-cause-unseen-ongoing-brain-injury).
* COVID [shrinks the brain and accelerates cognitive decline](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5).
* The limbic system in the brain **regulates emotions**, **[COVID damages the limbic system](https://academic.oup.com/braincomms/article/5/4/fcad177/7194779)**.
* Lots of people have had COVID multiple times.
Agreed. Driving here has become a pain in the ass because of the selfishness of too many drivers. And let's not even mention the dangerous ones driving like they are in a video game. I guess it's because society as a whole is becoming more and more selfish, as it's a personality trait that's glorified these days.
People don’t care anymore, they do what they want and just wave, give the finger or flash the hazards with no concern of the carnage they may have caused
Little or no police in the streets I blame
There are more cars on the road now, and the aging population is not making the situation any better. I have observed a significant increase in dangerous driving among elderly drivers. Sometimes it looks as if they are struggling to even turn the wheel.
Also loads of people not paying attention to the road and using their phones is becoming more common.
Nearly got in a fight today because someone almost wiped me and my dog out when I was crossing at the exit of a roundabout… because he both failed to indicate he was exiting AND decided to exit from the inside lane closest to the roundabout. And yet I was the one that got verbally abused when I gave him a look of “wtf?”
Import, as well, I might add.
People are getting more stressed. Low salaries, long hours, cost of living, traffic everywhere, people crammed in urban areas as majority of jobs are there results in people just wanting to get to places asap
I've been driven around today by a work colleague in Switzerland, total disregard for every law, junction, speed limit, stopped on a busy roundabout to show me where a shop was 🤣🤣🤣 it's not just UK, I presume the OP was referring to UK?
Theres no one out there policing anymore and everyone knows it. Vans of a certain type have a different speed limit in national speed limit areas but they all drive like cars myself included, people just don't care about rules anymore because the chances of being caught are so much slimmer than ever before.
It extends outside driving as well, I live next to a shut down pub and was outside gardening yesterday and found 6 kids were playing football in the garden, I told them that it's not abandoned and someone lives there and at first they didn't believe me so I rang him and he came down and told them to leave or he'd be calling the police, they still refused to leave so I put my sprinkler on top of the wall and let them have it, they thought it was great till I let them know it wasn't tap water and was from a water butt.
There is poor behaviour in cities with people parking everywhere (while councils makes narrower roads to build bike lanes no one uses rather than let's say dedicated bus lanes)
Then on motorway, most seem to lack basic awareness with people doing 50 in 4th lane, lorries on 3rd, etc. Been through Germany a few time last year and you have the newest sportcar doing 200kph and as soon as they pass you they cascade through the lanes all the way to 1st
I'm convinced everyone got scared of driving over lockdown.
Roads up where I live are wide, NSL A and B roads, you can absolutely do 60 on them no problem, if not a lot more.
Before lockdown you'd get the occasional car dawdling at 35-40 but almost everyone else was doing 55-60, now its the complete opposite, almost no-one is anywhere near the limit, and you get huge trains of cars doing 35mph down it. My time to do a 45 mile journey on it nearly doubled over lockdown from ~1hr 15m to ~2hrs. I still manage the quicker time when its late and theres noone on the road, so something has changed with driving.
Honestly it’s scary the amount of drivers who literally do not look when turning. The amount of near misses I’ve seen it’s only a matter of time before I personally witness a serious incident.
As someone who rides a bike in london but also drives a car the decline in standards of both has been very clear to see. I do wonder how much the pandemic had to do with it.
It’s almost like a decline in quality of living and life has a further impact on people. Cost of living? Corrupt government? High inflation with pay not matching? Still struggling after COVID? All contribute to a poorer quality of life and knock on effects on people- when the world is in disarray, so are we.
I’ve noticed people are a lot more selfish now- ‘every man for himself’ mindset going on.
Driving standards in the UK have always been quite high contrasted to other countries. Worth keeping in mind. But without meaning to immigrant bash… the lowering standard is likely influenced by more migrants coming in who learnt to drive abroad and exchanging their foreign licences for UK ones
Simple the British Empire ended with loss of Hong Kong over long period of time civilisation becomes lazy and spoiled and such its a simple repeat of any empire which lasts approx 180 to 250 years experiences the same exact things. Note - all the top empires of thr last 3000 years have had the same problems as we experience today.
Everything we see today with woke and womens rights and liberalism and even the welfare system and workers rights see post covid wfh. Feeling spoiled and priviliaged as if everyone is a Duke or Lord who deserves a 5 star life with Uber eats and migrants washing our cars and streaming and so on.
Simply look up 'The fate of empires' by Sir John Grubb. Free youtube narration available.
There’s been a decline in *everything* standards to be honest. Driving standards are shit, customer service is getting worse and worse, people don’t know how to behave in cinemas and theatres… even my doctor’s surgery has apparently seen a huge uptick in patients *physically attacking* nurses and GPs.
Yep, that's the real issue, humans forgetting to how human effectively and appropriately
Katherine Ryan has talked about how comedy gigs are now having to hire security to handle rowdy crowds, things like people getting drunk and fighting each other in the audience. She said they’d never have to have security for a bog standard comedy crowd before. I do think there is something in the reduction in the number of third spaces, ie somewhere other than home or work where you’d interact with other people like shopping malls, youth groups, pubs etc, which means we’re getting increasingly siloed and not learning or forgetting basic social constructs. In the past, you’d generally know the people you lived near or there’s a chance you’d get to know them, or there would be more the general social shame from behaving badly, which we don’t have as much any more and hence people are behaving badly, cause there are fewer consequences
spent the last month trying to get through to HMRC, if you want encouragement to either top yourself or find their HQ and burn it down please give it a go - fucking omnishambles.
You joke but I genuinely think stuff like this is part of the cause. I was talking to my mum recently who was saying when she was younger, businesses and public services were generally straightforward with you. You could call them if you had a problem, you'd get a refund if something broke. Now we have a Khafka-eqsue nightmare of call centres and companies willfully flouting their own obligations and contracts. They put on a song and dance about how much they care and then bend over backwards to frustrate any attempt to get them to actually deliver on their promises. It gets people understandably maddened and erodes the social contract.
of course it is, which is why we are seeing a huge increase in all the bad .....isms again, this government have normalised lying, our utilities - that are a key factor in social growth and prosperity - are charging so much the govt has to step in whilst at the same time making record profits???? Our rivers and lakes and coastal destinations are choking on our own shit whilst the water companies are paying out hundreds of millions in dividends. Why the fuck should i be honest and truthful and law abiding? HMRC lets million/billionaires pay a far lower effective tax rate than me but they come after me for, and im not shitting you, £2.70. Im thinking of writing a book - PAYE is for schmucks, i reckon it will be a bestseller.
I'm self-employed so I know this pain all too well.
i just dont know how to deal with it - the online "community" help isnt working "click here to tell us somethings wrong" takes you to a page that says "that didnt work there must be something wrong" so thats a dead end, try to call and after giving the bot your entire history so "i can properly direct the call" it says they are too busy and i should piss off an call back at some point in the future - so i can be offended all over again. Mad doesnt cover it.
DPD customer services enters the chat.
Possibly due to declining living standards so people stop giving a shit?
If the Tories can steal the PPE money and party during lockdown then why should I follow the rules?
you should put this in quotes or people will misunderstand
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Wrong. Living standards are declining because it costs a shit-ton to even survive.
If you earn less than 30k a year you can forget to live on your own because you won't be able to afford it. Source: personal experience.
i mean im managing it just about fine, depends where you live. but no question my standard of living is in the bin compared to what it was, glad i took my car on a 3 year HP back in 2019, because there no chance i could afford the house and the car if i was to buy it today.
"Managing fine" and having a decent standard of living is not the same. I'm managing too but it doesn't change the fact that living standard has dropped through the floor. I'm living alone and spending about 1500 a month on rent, bills, insurance, food and fuel... Because fuck me if I want to do something more than just sleep, work and commute right? Housing market in particular is fucked beyond comprehension, I thought it was bad couple months ago but it's only gotten worse, 3 bedrooms remotely near a big city you're looking at 1000p/m, a room in a house share will run you easily 500p/m, it's actual insanity.
but you only said >If you earn less than 30k a year you can forget to live on your own because you won't be able to afford it. I can and do afford it, in a 2 bed, 15 minute drive from the centre of one of the top 5 largest cities in the UK. and i dont pay much more than £500/m for my mortgage.
Out of curiosity, when did you buy it and how much was the upfront cost for the mortgage?
How did you get such a low mortgage?
Mortgage, there it is. If you were renting you won't be saying what you are.
People acting like decent human beings has nothing to do with cost of living. As the old saying goes, manners cost nothing.
In an ideal world, yes, but it's hard to be nice when you are constantly stressed and barely making ends meet, I try to be nice and considerate anyway, but a lot of people struggle with it and I can see the affect it has on the people around me
To an extent. The way this is framed is almost saying "life is tight and a bit shit ATM, that means it's ok for people to twat medical staff and drive like cunts". I know that is likely not what anyone means, but they aren't THAT intertwined.
Well they sort of are intertwined like that, but it also doesn't justify it. The problem is the media makes out that doctors and nurses striking causes massive financial issues, when actually it's an excuse to take attention away from bankers, CEOs and some politicians who allow the money to be taken from the poorer people and given to the richest, while the richest get tax breaks and non taxable bonuses, so the poor then think the medical professionals are to blame so when there's a small issue, it turns into a big issue because of the misconceptions we are fed by those who actually cause, and could solve, out issues We are made to hate each other so we don't hate those who are actually to blame, if this wasn't the case we would be hating the people causing issues which would actually make things better
Bollocks. As scarcity increases, as does competition. It’s our lizard brain taking over because people are out there literally fighting for survival.
What a ridiculously out of touch take. People stop giving a shit when they see their income taxed to hell and a decline in every single service they are paying to be provided with whilst simultaneously being mocked by a govt who have money to throw at seemingly everything except the people who actually voted them in
Nah, people are forced not to give a sh#t about the simple niceties because they are worried about how they will make the next mortgage payment and how the entire country is f#cked if we faced another pandemic or another world war. people aren't earning less money because people are rude or inconsiderate, people are ruder because you have to be out for yourself to get anything right now and that mindset changes how people do everything
>people are ruder because you have to be out for yourself to get anything right now Have you noticed rude, agressive confrontational people getting better service, better jobs than articulate, pleasant people that can get on with people around them? Because I certainly haven't.
I literally have been victim to it, if you don't make a fuss you don't stand out so you are easier to ignore, but someone making a stink about it has to be shut up one way or another. . . . It's certainly not right, but it does happen. The prime example was when I was working for a marquee company, if you didn't go to the boss and demand he pay you or else you won't come in, he would pay you last, which could be weeks away, if you were rude to him you'd get paid, which meant he took advantage of us nice and hard working individuals while the assholes were paid up to date. It's an extreme example but it happens
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Oh absolutely, but right now we are at "please stop f#cking us", soon it will be "well I guess we gotta f#ck em right back"
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The decision makers and money takers who f#ck us all over and tell us to blame one another, not the bankers and CEOs who refuse to take a smaller bonus or wages so their workers can afford a home
I had to ring BT on Saturday. I've still got PTSD from it. Worst of all I have to ring them back.....
Used to work there me fucking too
Social trust is objectively and measurably declining. Robert Putnam's "Bowling Alone" is US based and 20 years old but the trends have mostly done nothing but continue and it applies here too. The "intermediary" institutions have rotted out (clubs, churches, charities). Young people barely have children, they can't afford family homes. Real terms wages have been stagnant since about 05, we have a decreasing conception of being a cultural monolith with shared morals etc. People move homes radically more than in the past, disrupting community formation... The list is basically endless and it's not just generic "old person complaining" shit, there are crystal clear metrics we can look at even if the broadest notion of "social cohesion" is woolly. And I'm in my 20s anyway. What we're really seeing is our country become a very raw and transactional place. It's like arthritis or running an engine without enough oil. There has always been movement to and from towns and cities, and cities are always more "anonymous" than rural villages, but the extent is historically unparalleled. All with a schizophrenic social media landscape where people scream into a void. We've basically watched all the historic order and structure - whatever its failings - be melted away and replaced with nothing. And we're just meant to live in this deranging post modernity where there is no underlying construct or direction. And people seem to be getting more feral by the day. Anyway, back to cars.
Our culture is collapsing because we tell ourselves it isn’t a good culture and work to destroy it. People are soon to see the alternatives and they will not like them.
This, had a good chat with my taxi driver about it today.
I would even say things taste like shit compared to a few years ago, movies and tv shows just aren’t that great these days either. It’s like everything is going to shit slowly
Oh and gaming is in a sad sorry state, especially Xbox
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All the examples you quote are of people trying to get accountability....
Stop reading the Daily Mail
People are getting more frustrated and impatient in general. It shows on the road and in stores.
I think this is it: years on end of restricted living and significant financial stress have put everyone on edge. It's not really surprising.
whilst at the same time the rich getting obscenely richer, everyday costs through the roof, energy costs so high the govt has to step in whilst at the same time energy firms making record profits - dont think i'll ever be able to square that circle in my head.
I will say, I've stopped giving so much leeway to people in middle or right hand lanes. If there's a gap on their left, and I *Can* get around them, I do. The amount of people with poor lane discipline is awful. Two wrongs don't make a right, But I also don't care.
I think this is it coupled with a sense of entitlement and / or ignorance from a growing number.
And in the 600 middle lane hogger posts we get a day on this sub
Lack of visible road policing has to be a huge factor. Years ago travelling from Liverpool to Manchester I'd regularly see two or three police cars. Now, I can travel the length and breadth of the country and not see one. People seem to be incredibly selfish these days and this seems to be getting worse. I suppose this translates into declining standards in everything.
agreed, selfish as they know they will get away with it. Was just cut off this morning by a waste wagon, fully liveried up, with the driver holding his phone base to his ear whilst turning across me - and no seatbelt either, easy to spot as he was wearing high viz and he was bloody close. only visible plod will fix it.
> Lack of visible road policing has to be a huge factor. Definitely. There seems to be no consequence to being a bell-end, so why not regress to your base self?
Well exactly. Look at the post above from a bell-end bragging he undertakes and doesnt care. Im not condoning driving in the overtaking lanes, but driving dangerously by undertaking isnt the answer either. Visible policing of the motorway is a start. Not just to deal with middle lane hoggers but dangerous drivers
I drove a new car from Durham to Swansea the other week. I think I saw a total of two Police cars on the whole journey, one interceptor going the other way on the motorway, and a patrol van in a random village in the middle of Wales.
Where I am you only see the police after 6pm if they are going to a call out. Maybe in the summer they will get the horses out and go for a ride around the parks but I honestly couldn't tell you the last time I saw one on foot.
I started driving in 2016, and I used to sort of joke to myself that if I saw 1 police car on a journey of more than about an hour or so, then I could basically do whatever I want as I'd be guaranteed to not see another. Now I regularly do 3+ hour journeys and don't see any...
As someone who moved back to the UK in 2020 after living & driving abroad almost everyday for 10 years. The standards are pretty high however there's 3 things I see: 1 - There are some people who genuinely make mistakes on the road e.g. a young woman who changed lanes without looking yesterday & almost ran into my right side, either I was in her blindspot or she just didn't check properly, then she indicated after switching lanes likely just nervous & clearly a genuine mistake (thankfully I kept reasonable distance) 2 - There are people who are consistent idiots on the road - like the mini driver who last night cut in and out of the lane in front me on a roundabout around 3 times cause he was too lazy to use the steering and keep to his lanes (I used the horn the last time as he was clearly just being an idiot and was coming a bit closer to me than I liked) 3 - People bringing their shit driving from abroad, I've seen it mostly in Asian areas like Southall, Green Street, Leicester. My partner doesn't feel comfortable in these areas cause she's seen how shit these people drive. Sheer disregard for following the driving laws whether it be speed, parking, stopping safely in these areas. It reminds me of the discourteous driving at home, which leads to significant congestion and accidents. I think the last one is the biggest concern as where I'm from in a tiny island there are a huge number of road deaths from people disregarding driving laws & rules. I think stricter enforcement in these areas to stamp out bad driving is highly needed.
On point 3, I agree - in places like Hounslow and Southall, the Deliveroo riders on their e-bikes will be riding counter traffic in the wrong lane then swerve left without looking to get into the correct lane to make a turn Having spent time in India, that’s exactly the type of move that’s normal out there but not normal here!
Immigration goes up, shit driving standards go up, jobs like uber, deliveroo, amazon, evri - predominantly employ these people, so you got them driving round on mopeds and in clapped out vans that probably aren't even road legal, on driving licenses earned in countries with shitter standards. It's plain as fucking day when you're out on the roads. Everything has a knock on.
Can vouch for point 3. Driving standards atrocious round areas of Bradford
Bradford and Luton are the worst places I've driven in the UK.
Bradford and Luton are the worst places in the UK.
I concur. Bradford drivers have made me buy a dashcam. Next door neighbour has had 3 cars written off in 4 years by uninsured drivers around West Yorkshire
Uni student in Leicester w a car. Absolutely agree with that 3rd one 😭. Also people park/pull over and wait genuinely anywhere here it makes no sense
Thought this myself then drove in other countries UK general standard is still above many others
We have the second safest roads in Europe, which is horrifying considering how many bad drivers I see.
I say this to everyone, But if our biggest driving issue as a whole is people driving slowly in the middle lane, I think we'll be alright
Our driving standards can still be relatively high but noticeably worse than they were before.
Yeah. Kuwait is by far my worst experience. Makes me really appreciate how calm and sensible our roads are.
south of Italy and India for me. Surprisingly for me, everyone in Japan speeds!
Bet they use the motorway correctly though!
After driving in Belgium I can concur... Those mad bastards drive 120kph bumper to bumper, on potholed motorways with lanes narrower than my garden path.
Conversely I had the absolute opposite experience in Belgium / The Netherlands. Smooth, looked after roads, INCREDIBLE Lane discipline (If you were slightly approaching on someone they would move over) with very little roadworks / traffic jams / pointless 50 zones for air pollution.
Netherlands was very good tbf. It's very obvious when you crossed the boarder. Northern Belgium might have been better than thr south though tbf
All of Belgium is shit it just depends where you were and the time of day. Lived there 18-22 so during COVID and jesus, on the A12 between Antwerp and Brussels it was a hail Mary every time, main issue is people there up until relatively recently didn't need to do a test they could go to the gemeenteheuis and get their licence by filling out a form! Also motorway structure, cars coming on to the road via sliproads like in the UK but then they also have exits from the fast lane so people will swerve across 4 lanes to get to an exit and shit ha
Which countries are these because most of Europe are terrible in my experience, maybe only Norway was more sensible from all the countries I've driven in
Belgium, Netherlands and Germany are pretty decent. France, Italy, Greece however... The less said the better.
I worked in Greece and my cheapo company book a flight to Athens instead of the local airport, consequently had a 6 hour transfer in a Greek taxi in the biggest thunderstorm I have ever seen, didn’t end for the entire trip. And this mad bastard was driving in convoy like I was the US president. 140 kph bumper to bumper in torrential rain.
Sounds about right! Were there hairpin turns up and down mountains? 😆 Buses going the other way at 140kph too! I'll never forget the first bus journey I made in Greece...
The broken indicator epidemic.
I don't care if people don't indicate....... as long as they move left after overtaking.
Covid, busier roads. Yesterday I saw someone head down a slip road the wrong way, 2nd time in my life.
Were they Indian?
One of the most dangerous decline in standards I'm seeing is: people stopping at EVERY junction. When first starting my lessons my instructor hammered me with just doing junctions - roundabouts, T junctions, every single turn from a road - until I could assess the oncoming situation and safely enter traffic without stopping. This ability or skill seems to be fading away, and I'm seeing a lot of people stopping at clear junctions and empty roundabouts before entering.
This is a real bugbear of mine. I’ve watched people stop at empty roundabouts that I can see are clear from 15 car lengths away.
I was in Warsaw the other week and the driving over there was noticeably more 'wild west'. Suspect increasingly busy roads may be having an effect over here, but standards are still relatively high compared to other places I've driven.
You're not wrong, as of two years ago I spend 50% of my work time driving (20hrs a week) and I have seen the quality drop on it's ass. This really does vary depending on where you go though, I spend the majority of my time in Hertfordshire and it isn't awful, the odd selfish tesla/merc/BMW dipshit driving like they own the road but other than that it isn't too bad. Head over to Luton/London and it's fucking horrific, people running red lights, cutting up everywhere, shitty parking, mass speeding and overall terrible driving. Now if you head to Cambridge, it's a real pleasure to drive there, it's literally night and day, everyone is doing exactly what they should be doing, using indicators, being nice and driving sensibly.
come and have trip to Bradford - red lights and one way systems completely ignored, mega mile German and Lexi at maximum attack all over the place - its terrifying.
I live and drive most of my time in Herts and the surrounding area and in all honesty I think it’s pretty similar everywhere except massive population centres. Luton and London are one and the same in standards from what I’ve seen. In Herts it’s not so much running lights and cutting up it’s just sheer cluelessness, no checking junctions, poor or non existent lane discipline and just generally dithery idiots who can’t read speed limit signs, make decisions or commit to manoeuvres etc. I think this in turn leads to more people seaming to “own the road” as they one, dont want to be near those drivers in their nice cars, two, are competent and ironically hold a decent standard of driving. Obviously this standard dips when they start driving like assholes because the are impatient. As someone who drives a nice car with the horsepower to pass most others safely and quickly, and while definitely not the best, is someone who is a very competent driver, if you’re dithering, all over the place etc. I will pass you given the opportunity just to be away from you, not because I’m in a rush.
>As someone who drives a nice car with the horsepower to pass most others safely and quickly, and while definitely not the best, is someone who is a very competent driver, if you’re dithering, all over the place etc. I will pass you given the opportunity just to be away from you, not because I’m in a rush. Bingo! I've done my fair share of firm Tesla overtakes. Not out of any feelings of aggression or recklessness (far from it, tbh). It's because I've had the misfortune to be first on the scene of two separate, serious road accidents and it's not an experience I'd like to repeat. I'd rather leave the vicinity of these absolute liabilities as soon as possible.
I was going to say, I drive in Cambridgeshire and for the most part I feel like the driving quality is pretty decent.
One thing that really drives me mad is people who do 40 in a 60 (National speed limit) stretch, but carry that 40 into a 30? Maybe do 55/60 in the 60 and 30 in the 30!
40 in a 60 is annoying, but whatever, if those people continue 40 in a 30 they should be shot.
They should be dunked in a vat of tea
Where I live, the sharp decline in driving standards was very noticeable once everything started gradually opening up in the summer *in 2020.
My recent frustration is just because you can get your front out before I come round the roundabout, your car is right in front of my exit as I do come round, you plonker.
I have noticed since covid it’s been utter shit.
Lack of patience and/or pride to learn how to do something properly. Take a look at the learner drive subreddit and it's full of people asking if it's worth travelling to some remote town where the pass rate is higher thinking they'll have an easier time instead of just learning how to drive well...
Expensive housing, poor public transport and a shift to a gig economy are putting a lot of people on the road more than they probably should be. Councils are also making driving and parking more difficult without offering a realistic alternative. Combine it with enforcement being left to speed cameras, it's no wonder it's going a bit Mad Max.
I think a lot of people (who didn't want to, and should not) started driving post Covid. A lot of the *good* driving comes from experience and a willingness to learn. I don't think most of the newer drivers have either. Additionally, a lot of people who got stuck in built up metros (*cough* London *cough*) decided that they didn't want to risk being locked in again, so moved out to the leafy suburbs, bringing all that big-city energy with them. Some of that energy filters in to their driving, and it shows.
Covid causes cognitive decline
It's covid messing a small percentage of people up. It really doesn't take that much of a bump in reckless driving for roads to feel noticeably different, as they are so busy, so there's more opportunities for you to see people being careless. There's a whole host of behavioural and neurological symptoms that can cause poor driving. We have plenty of evidence now that covid can cause these symptoms.
If there are no consequences people learn they can do what they like without recourse. My area used to have over 200 traffic officers, there’s now 27 with an increase in road users. Lots of people do what they need to get a licence then don’t care and won’t learn from their mistakes or remedy them. Driving it’s a means of A-B for them, there no passion for improvement. Behaviourally people don’t care, there’s no shame. Lots of entitlement and selfishness. Again little consequence if they do something bad. You have to be particularly naughty to get a prison term. I do feel that most people are ok it’s just those who are entitled and selfish stand out more and there are loads of them so it’s noticeable every time you go out or online.
Think about America which is much further along the 'fuck you, I've got mine' timeline. They have skid row, endless road rage incidents. Karens coming out of their ears. Medical bills and no insurance? You're fucked, soz. We are now noticeably catching up with the USA and it's due to a massive decline in quality of life, spending power and hope. If the trains don't work, the potholes are everywhere, you can't get a doctor's appointment, your kids' school is now a privatised education company, your wages are flat in the face of rampant inflation, your mood sours. Brexit's knocked GDP back. There's less tax take, so there's less to spend on services. The nation is tired of running really hard to stand still or go backwards, and the end result is we all become a bit more cunty.
A rubbish lorry overtook a bicycle on a country road coming towards me this morning and both the cyclist and I had to slam on our brakes to make sure one of us didn’t die. Everyone round me is shit. Nobody indicates, nobody can stay in their lane on a roundabout, reckless overtakes, it’s insane.
Alright mate! It's the best lorry I could afford FFS!
Haha fuck, your profile pic got me. That takes me back 😅
Yeah it’s a bit of a double edged sword because I’ve had a few Americans tell me it’s a white power sign lol
😬
There has been a huge cultural shift toward being self-centered and hostile, aggressive, and violent by default. You're free to speculate what has influenced it ;)
Why can’t people indicate to come off the roundabout? It’s no good indicating to go around if I’m sat there missing every opportunity because every bellend won’t indicate to come off
There are many fewer fatal accidents I think compared to previous decades, so I don't think it can be all bad.
A lot of that is likely down to much better safety features in cars, rather than driving standards as such.
I think over-reliance on technology plays a part in this, just generally making drivers lazier and also making driving more monotonous where your attention starts to drift. Technology like blind spot warnings, lane assist, auto braking etc are great but also not infallible. I’ve noticed an increase in people merging onto motorways without checking their blind spots (and an increase in drivers that don’t seem to know when they’re in someone’s blind spot!), or people reversing out of a parking bay staring forwards at the reverse camera and not once looking around to see the spots the camera can’t see. I guess it’s similar to when people used to over-rely on early shit Sat-Navs and drive into lakes because the satnav said they need to go that way, and they don’t bother using their eyes.
The decline in driving standards is almost solely the fact there are an ever increasing number of drivers on the roads. More drivers = more opportunity for shit drivers. Its also a good reason why roads just seem to get worse, or why motorway congestion gets worse. There's just so much more cars every year in general.
Is it my turn to post this tomorrow?
Why wait till tomorrow when you could do it now?
The child, now 24, took her test at 17, we had already bought her a car, we are very rural, so its a must. I kept well away from the instruction side, as its not easy or infact sensible for a parent to get involved. I did go out with her a couple of times after she passed, I was really concerned that she was driving outside of her envelope of ability. This was not her, it was the instruction process. I speak as a class 1 driver and a national instructor with many years experience.
Bad driving is as old as driving itself but it may seem worse because the amount of drivers on the road is ever increasing. And with more traffic comes more frustration in some.
It's hell out there at the moment, with motorways being especially bad. People see to gravitate towards the central res far more than they ever did. Utter morons driving at 58mph in lane 3 of 4 in some unremarkable SUV type thing, not a care in the world, getting in everyones way and generally causing chaos because the majority of people in lanes 1 and 2 aren't clever enough to just keep going in their lane and seem to feel the need to move to lane 4 to overtake Derek and Margaret in their 73 plate MG-3, meaning further tailbacks.
A lack of readable signs and markings on the roads is contributing to the stress levels of those who can’t go round a roundabout in lane without lines to guide them
As someone who has driven blue lights for the best part of 15 years, I can confirm there is a massive difference in driving standards, lack of courtesy and lack of acknowledgement of emergency vehicles. To me it feels like an overall increase in selfishness, the most important person on the road mentality, don't get in my way or slow me down. The roads are full of main characters, it gets quite disheartening when I'm held up on way to emergencies due to said selfishness.
For me the 2 most noticeable changes have been an increase in people just straight up going through red lights and a huge increase in really unsafe speeding. There's always been people who cut it a bit fine at traffic lights and go through just after it's gone red but now it seems like those people go through then another 2 cars follow them when the light is definitely red and traffic in the other direction has already started moving. People have always speeded and I will admit I don't follow the limits exactly all of the time but now there seems to be a huge increase in people driving at ridiculous speeds in areas where it's definitely not safe. I don't mean someone going 60 on a 50 road but people going 50-60 in residential areas where there's cars double parked making the road effectively 1 lane.
I wouldn't say they have declined, there have always been good and bad drivers on the road. The driving test is harder than ever to pass so theoretically it should be slowly improving. The problem is there's a lot more traffic on roads which are increasingly more poorly maintained. Cities become busier and the road infrastructure isn't kept up. There's also a lot of drivers on the road who didn't pass their test in the UK so may have been taught different approaches to certain situations. Cars are also larger and people tend to rely on safety systems rather than their own driving skills so are likely less attentive. The people who complain about other drivers though usually get into situations because of their own lack of forward planning and anticipation. If you're constantly getting into bad situations, even if you don't think you caused them it may be time to take some advanced training. If you always expect everyone else on the road to do the most stupid thing imaginable then you tend to avoid these types of situations.
My driving instructer drilled that last part into me. I expect everyone around me to be a complete fucking idiot on the road, and am prepared for them to do dumb shit like pull out, cut across the motorway etc. Alot of the incidents on Youtube of dashcam clips could be avoided if people stop driving with the mindset that everyone else will follow the highway code and drive the way they were taught.
To be fair I'm the same but it doesn't stop me commenting on what I see happening around me from a safe distance. Those dashcam videos people post of them speeding up on roundabouts and then getting in a tizzy that the car that was pulling out before they got anywhere near them is still there boil my piss.
> There's also a lot of drivers on the road who didn't pass their test in the UK so may have been taught different approaches to certain situations. Are there many countries who can do a straight swap? My wife is taking lessons at the moment as her US license is only valid for a year.
I think it's just EU countries currently.
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/which-countrys-driving-licences-can-be-exchanged-in-the-uk/#:~:text=These%20include%20the%20countries%20of,Ukraine%2C%20United%20Arab%20Emirates%2C%20and You’d be surprised how many there are. I have personally experienced the horrendous driving standards in the UAE and Zimbabwe, but their license holders can just rock up to a straight swap.
I think you can exchange a licence from pretty much any Western/developed country, the US is actually an exception.
It's one thing to pass the driving test. Maintaining your skill level, and in general abiding by what you've been taught is another thing. Most people get their license, and proceed to throw everything they've learnt out of the window.
This. The UK should scrap the license exchange scheme that allows non uk qualified drivers to exchange theirs. Having countries like Zimbabwe with their horrendous driving on there just due to some colonial apologetic is ridiculous.
Post lockdowns everyone forgot how to drive I 100% agree. Sharp and noticeable decline in driving standards ever since
Replace 'driving' with 'towns' and 'road users' with 'people' And there you have the reality of living in the UK.
I think it's partly due to allot of folks being really self entitled nowadays. In general, most people have zero respect for one another. Ironically and this may just be my personal experience. But I find the older folks ruder than young people. This translates into their driving. Rules of the road become optional. It's now a daily occurrence for me to witness tailgating, not indicating, blasting through roundabouts, poor lane discipline, and in general "shit" driving. I've took it upon myself to confront some people about their driving. I would say in the past year, I've confronted about five people. Four of which immediately became defensive, and starting swearing/getting aggressive. Only one lady I spoke to, was genuinely apologetic about tailgating and said quote "I didn't think I was following too closely. But I will be sure to take note of that when driving." and we proceeded to have a polite conversation about safe following distances. I'd also go as far to say the gap between men, and women in terms of driving is almost none existent now. I find woman just as bad as men on the roads now.
More people coming to uk who “learned” to drive in other countries
You can only drive on an international licence for 12 months
Nope, not always. Countries like the UAE for example have agreements with the UK to straight up convert their licence to a full British one without a test. Check on www.gov.uk/driving-nongb-licence and look at the list of designated countries on question 3. I used to live in the UAE for a while (albeit it’s been 10 years since I left). I don’t think their driving standards and level of courtesy to other road users (cars or pedestrians) is up to the UKs level. And it’s quite common for drivers to not give way at zebra crossings there. Not to mention, they simply don’t have some of the road scenarios that we do such as mini roundabouts, narrow lanes where you’re expected to work together to help traffic flow, waiting in a junction to turn (they always have filter arrows at junctions).
I guess you learn something everyday
Well luckily we didn't have a million people immigrate into the country last year that could be driving on our roads.
Majority of people I see sat in the middle lanes on motorway are of Asian/Middle Eastern descent, usually driving a Toyota.
9 up in the 2001 Honda Jazz has entered the chat
most of the times their license isn’t even valid here and they have to re-take it here mate
I really don't think this is the main issue
🙄
I’d argue the standards of those passing now are higher than ever, the standards of all the old bastards are getting worse yes.
Ah yes, 72 year old Bob in his moss covered Honda Jazz. That has never seen the light of fourth gear. Dislikes indicators, and looking is optional!.
Having passed my test recently I'd say exactly the opposite. The test itself doesn't really test your ability to drive anymore, and seems largely luck based. If you can do the few simple things that the examiner wants and don't screw up too badly then you get a pass. With a large number of instructors just focused on getting their pupils to pass, important driving skills get overlooked because they likely won't come up in the test anymore. Comparing it with tests that people I know took 10 or 20 years ago, my lessons and test were a complete joke. Since passing my test I've been shown so many things that I was taught incorrectly, and realised so many things that I did in the test that should have caused me to fail but didn't. It's scary to think about how many drivers there are like me that passed their test and so now assume they know how to drive. I'm lucky that I have a dad that is able and willing to teach me all the things I did not learn before passing, but most people don't have someone like that or wouldn't think to ask for such help, and so are an accident waiting to happen without even realising it.
"intelligent" vehicles create dumb drivers....it's that simple.
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This subject again?
I'm not sure they have decliend tbh. There have been good drivers and shit drivers for the 30 years I've been behind the wheel and people have been complaining about "drivers these days are terrible" for that entire time.
Agreed, I’ve recently passed my C1 license so I can start an ambulance secondment. The instructor who I was with said it’s the worst standard of driving he’s ever seen and the amount of selfishness he sees daily has gone up.
Expected when there’s nobody really policing it.
Yep I live rurally & the amount of cars on the road in my 20yrs of driving has quadrupled & then some it's wall to wall traffic round my local town the roads weren't made for the amount of traffic, I gave up a while ago giving a fuck about anyone else but me so I just go for it to get to where I'm going a quick as possible with as little hassle as possible I hate driving now unless it's in the middle of the night/very early morning The first lockdown was heaven it was like driving 20yrs ago bloody wonderful
Marked difference since 2020, more cars on the road
try driving in scotland, especially on 1 lane passing place roads, jesus christ, they cannot drive, they do not understand the road, they do not know how to control their vehicle and have no idea about the size of their vehicle if you want to see the state of the uk driver in action crystallised, head up to the highlands in the summer.
since 2020 the world has lost all substance and meaning in my opinion, the way we handled that year was … bizarre to say the least. it turned everyone into bitter selfish twats
I'd noticed the same thing. I've seen much more crazy stuff since lockdown. The worst I've seen is that it now seems to be optional to join the motorway from the slip road. Lots of people just continuing up the hard shoulder before they push in.
That’s my observation as well
Yes they have gotten worse.
3 is massive and a core reason for sure.
What has genuinely surprised me is cars at junctions. Its literally like driving in New Delhi or something. I remember some years ago drivers waiting patiently for a gap or a car to let them in. But now it's like first to the junction goes straight in type of scenario. They see you coming and just turn in ! FFS
It's COVID. * [Even mild cases of COVID can cause brain injury](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-19-leaves-its-mark-on-the-brain-significant-drops-in-iq-scores-are/). * COVID causes brain injury that [lasts for months after infection](https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20231229/covid-may-cause-unseen-ongoing-brain-injury). * COVID [shrinks the brain and accelerates cognitive decline](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5). * The limbic system in the brain **regulates emotions**, **[COVID damages the limbic system](https://academic.oup.com/braincomms/article/5/4/fcad177/7194779)**. * Lots of people have had COVID multiple times.
*laughs in driving in Paris*
Agreed. Driving here has become a pain in the ass because of the selfishness of too many drivers. And let's not even mention the dangerous ones driving like they are in a video game. I guess it's because society as a whole is becoming more and more selfish, as it's a personality trait that's glorified these days.
No coppers on the roads anymore as they rely on cameras and people's dashcams, so people do whatever they feel like.
Society is degrading, people are forgetting how to be human
People don’t care anymore, they do what they want and just wave, give the finger or flash the hazards with no concern of the carnage they may have caused Little or no police in the streets I blame
There are more cars on the road now, and the aging population is not making the situation any better. I have observed a significant increase in dangerous driving among elderly drivers. Sometimes it looks as if they are struggling to even turn the wheel. Also loads of people not paying attention to the road and using their phones is becoming more common.
Mental health is one driving factor
Nearly got in a fight today because someone almost wiped me and my dog out when I was crossing at the exit of a roundabout… because he both failed to indicate he was exiting AND decided to exit from the inside lane closest to the roundabout. And yet I was the one that got verbally abused when I gave him a look of “wtf?” Import, as well, I might add.
People are getting more stressed. Low salaries, long hours, cost of living, traffic everywhere, people crammed in urban areas as majority of jobs are there results in people just wanting to get to places asap
Absolute cunts everywhere post lockdown. I always ask taxi drivers the same question and they all agree, loads of twat drivers since covid.
I've been driven around today by a work colleague in Switzerland, total disregard for every law, junction, speed limit, stopped on a busy roundabout to show me where a shop was 🤣🤣🤣 it's not just UK, I presume the OP was referring to UK?
Theres no one out there policing anymore and everyone knows it. Vans of a certain type have a different speed limit in national speed limit areas but they all drive like cars myself included, people just don't care about rules anymore because the chances of being caught are so much slimmer than ever before. It extends outside driving as well, I live next to a shut down pub and was outside gardening yesterday and found 6 kids were playing football in the garden, I told them that it's not abandoned and someone lives there and at first they didn't believe me so I rang him and he came down and told them to leave or he'd be calling the police, they still refused to leave so I put my sprinkler on top of the wall and let them have it, they thought it was great till I let them know it wasn't tap water and was from a water butt.
There is poor behaviour in cities with people parking everywhere (while councils makes narrower roads to build bike lanes no one uses rather than let's say dedicated bus lanes) Then on motorway, most seem to lack basic awareness with people doing 50 in 4th lane, lorries on 3rd, etc. Been through Germany a few time last year and you have the newest sportcar doing 200kph and as soon as they pass you they cascade through the lanes all the way to 1st
I'm convinced everyone got scared of driving over lockdown. Roads up where I live are wide, NSL A and B roads, you can absolutely do 60 on them no problem, if not a lot more. Before lockdown you'd get the occasional car dawdling at 35-40 but almost everyone else was doing 55-60, now its the complete opposite, almost no-one is anywhere near the limit, and you get huge trains of cars doing 35mph down it. My time to do a 45 mile journey on it nearly doubled over lockdown from ~1hr 15m to ~2hrs. I still manage the quicker time when its late and theres noone on the road, so something has changed with driving.
Honestly it’s scary the amount of drivers who literally do not look when turning. The amount of near misses I’ve seen it’s only a matter of time before I personally witness a serious incident. As someone who rides a bike in london but also drives a car the decline in standards of both has been very clear to see. I do wonder how much the pandemic had to do with it.
It’s almost like a decline in quality of living and life has a further impact on people. Cost of living? Corrupt government? High inflation with pay not matching? Still struggling after COVID? All contribute to a poorer quality of life and knock on effects on people- when the world is in disarray, so are we. I’ve noticed people are a lot more selfish now- ‘every man for himself’ mindset going on.
Driving standards in the UK have always been quite high contrasted to other countries. Worth keeping in mind. But without meaning to immigrant bash… the lowering standard is likely influenced by more migrants coming in who learnt to drive abroad and exchanging their foreign licences for UK ones
Simple the British Empire ended with loss of Hong Kong over long period of time civilisation becomes lazy and spoiled and such its a simple repeat of any empire which lasts approx 180 to 250 years experiences the same exact things. Note - all the top empires of thr last 3000 years have had the same problems as we experience today. Everything we see today with woke and womens rights and liberalism and even the welfare system and workers rights see post covid wfh. Feeling spoiled and priviliaged as if everyone is a Duke or Lord who deserves a 5 star life with Uber eats and migrants washing our cars and streaming and so on. Simply look up 'The fate of empires' by Sir John Grubb. Free youtube narration available.
I haven’t noticed anything wrong, people still give way and let you out and things like that. People are good in general
OP.passed his test 4 years ago
There are certainly less reported accidents than pre-Covid currently, so that would seem to suggest driving standards are better rather than worse.