I think my favourite two moments with the Turks in Rebirth were:
1. Elena at the Haunted Hotel - where she belies all her previously asserted bravado by completely losing her shit when the front desk guy dangles down from the ceiling in front of her.
2. Tseng and Aerith when he's badly injured - "I never hated you" - A beautiful little line that tells you a lot about both characters.
I do liek the Turks, but I do wish they would show at least a bit of regret for being instrumental in the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents in Sector 7. Yet they are still all swagger and not even a shred of guilt.
I think they do show regret - Reno and Rude overtly in the Turks' HQ scene in Remake, whereas Tseng is more subtle but I think it's still there: we just don't see it under the mask he has to wear as a leader who *must* keep Reno and Rude in line for their own safety. I wrote a really *really* tl;dr about this in another [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/h8btau/og_spoilers_theres_nothing_more_precious_than_a/) so I'll be lazy and copy it below.
I'm referencing the plot of Before Crisis here, which focuses on how impossible it is for a Turk to go against the orders of the Company (even if they want to) and the consequences for them if they try to do so. Towards the end of the game Tseng is hauled into a 'disciplinary hearing' where he, Reno and Rude are sentenced to execution for disobeying their orders, and are only saved (very dramatically of course) by Rufus at the last second:
>As a reminder, the disciplinary hearing is held on 9 December. The Turks drop the plate sometime between 11 - 14 December in the same year. That’s the space of time we are working with. Less than a week from certain death to platefall. With the Shinra Old Guard still in place at the head of the company Tseng has precisely zero wiggle-room, nowhere to go if he wants to stay in the Board's good graces purely to keep himself, Reno and Rude alive. The President, Heidegger and Scarlet are watching every movement the Turks make with eagle eyes, just waiting for an excuse to justify getting rid of them permanently, and there’s only so much Rufus can do while he’s only VP. If Tseng ever needed that ice-wall between his actual feelings and the real world, he needs it now. And then the orders for the Sector Seven mission come through.
>Let’s take another look at that [Turks HQ scene in Remake](https://youtu.be/iwKkSzQN5X4?t=2259), in the aftermath of platefall. Most people’s attention will naturally gravitate to Reno and Rude in this scene, because they are the ones visibly emoting. They are the ones processing some heavy, nasty stuff, and it’s clear to see in every line of their faces and every subtle hint in their voices. By contrast Tseng isn’t immediately as interesting to the casual viewer, at least not until he starts saying things that make you think ‘wow, what a bastard’. But let’s break it down a little more, shall we?
>
>Reno and Rude stew in silence, lost in their own worlds as they each try and work through things alone. Tseng has his head down, working, but he’s clearly attuned to what’s going on in the room. Reno only has to sigh for Tseng to glance over and decide that something needs to be said. Reno is clearly hurting badly, both physically (notice the empty medicine bottles on the arm of the couch) and mentally, but Tseng is delicate in how he phrases things. It’s not that Reno should probably have some time to recover, the way Tseng says it, but simply ‘you know…. You might be due for some R&R’. Reno has put in his time as a good employee; he’s due to get something back that was coming to him anyway. Nothing to do with the current situation. Not that Reno is fooled for an instant, but the way Tseng phrases the feedback gives it an aura of detachment. It’s not that Reno *needs time off*, it’s not that he *can’t cope*… but he’s earned it, and if that allows Reno to accept the offer without dinging his pride then all the better. Of course Reno feeling terrible about things is just going to ensure that he stays right where he is (has he ever abandoned the other two when the brown stuff is hitting the fan?) but the offer is there, open-ended.
>
>Tseng is engaging with the problem, so Rude takes it as an invitation to really engage. “What are we going to do about Sector Seven?” he asks, and Tseng has to remind him that they’re in no position to do *anything*. Shinra was about to execute the three of them for rebelling against orders less than a week prior: what are they *supposed* to do about Sector Seven at this point? This is the only time during the scene when Tseng shows any overt emotion, and it’s little less than a sigh. Tseng is just as frustrated and sick as the other two, but as leader he has an additional burden of responsibility to Reno and Rude: he has to keep them in line in order to keep them alive. Right now that means that Tseng, despite not giving the order to drop the plate, is put in the position of having to try and justify it.
>
>Notice that Tseng has all sorts of excuses lined up and ready to go. This has kept him up at night, and he’s constructed a narrative - more than one, in fact - to explain why they did what they did. None of the reasons he gives are the real answer, which is ‘if I had refused, or if you had refused, they would have lined all three of us up and shot us’ and Rude is just as aware of that as Tseng is. But the real answer is hard to stomach, so Tseng tries some alternatives. Here’s a handy justification about how someone else would have done the deed if the Turks had refused (which is arguably true); how does that suit you? Neither Reno or Rude are fans of that one. All right, Tseng has a completely different take lined up and ready to go (and if this didn’t convince you that he believes precisely nothing of what he’s saying, nothing will). How about ‘balancing the scales of what we’ve taken from the planet’, how does that one sound? (This, to me, almost sounds like he’s trying to figure out what he would say to Aeris if she ever called him on it. I don’t think this reasoning was constructed with Reno and Rude in mind) Reno and Rude are even more unconvinced, but this excuse has a secondary function: *Reno and Rude are now angry at Tseng.*
>
>Think about that for a moment. In psychological terms, that’s a pretty slick manoeuvre. Reno and Rude started by sitting in silence, anger and disgust turned inwards as they gnaw away at themselves for what they’ve done. Tseng gives them an outward target to focus on - himself - and now they’re both brimming with rage (“do you *actually* believe that?” Rude demands. “Does it matter?” asks Tseng. No, he doesn’t believe that. But he’s fulfilled his goal, and that’s what matters in this moment) Reno and Rude are successfully distracted from the self-destructive spiral they had been engaged in, and Rufus’ call comes at exactly the right time: Tseng can send both of his subordinates out into the night, furious at him rather than still eating themselves up inside, and give them a mission to focus on. By the time they come back, after a healthy dose of adrenaline, that anger will have subsided and they’ll probably realise what he was doing in that moment. And they will be a little further removed from the immediate aftermath of platefall, and it will be a little easier for them to sleep tonight.
>
>Probably not so for Tseng, on the other hand. Knowing him as we do from the Compilation, Tseng is as angry at the Sector Seven orders as Reno and Rude are. Unfortunately, *unlike* Reno and Rude, he cannot afford to let that anger show, even in front of the other two. Reno and Rude are safe to blow off steam and dissent in front of Tseng; he’s their boss, and he’s got their backs. But precisely because he’s their boss, Tseng cannot risk showing any hint of rebellion in front of the others, not right now after everything they’ve been through. Tseng agreeing that the mission was unjust, or wrong, would directly increase the chances that Reno or Rude would refuse the next terrible order that comes down the line. And, as all three Turks know all too well, to refuse an order right now guarantees that Shinra will kill them all. Tseng has to repeat the corporate line, has to wear the corporate mask while he does it, because he cannot risk Reno or Rude going off-mission before Rufus comes in and shakes up the Shinra hierarchy. It doesn’t matter that he doesn’t believe the bullshit justification he’s telling the others, and it doesn’t really even matter that they know he doesn’t believe it…. For the time being, he has to keep up that strong front of leadership: *I have decided that we’re going to follow our orders. And you may not like them, but you are not going to question* ***my*** *orders when I give them to you. This is how I keep us all alive right now.*
2 more things: I love that we actually fought Tseng, I don't think he ever got a battle even in the OG, and I liked that his fighting style was very martial arts-based, distinguishes him from Rude in a cool way. Also he and Elena's synergy attack is them doing identical moves, speaking to your point about her imitating him
Vincent showing up to help the Turks get out of the temple, shows his loyalty to them and even Shinra as a whole, he has a close relationship with Reeve in Dirge of Cerberus too.
>I love that in the new version Tseng not only fights back and gets a minor win against Sephiroth's vessel despite being stabbed, then stands up to *walk it off* and then we see Rude and Reno helping him escape and Rufus protecting him from Hojo’s offer to ‘help’ too. Not only do we see the bonds between the Turks as a team still in play, but it gives me hope that we’ll see Tseng back again in Part 3.
This. Tseng. My guy literally was like"Is this the Promised Land?"
"No."
"'Kay thanks, gonna go make that report." - Like he wasn't just stabbed by the most powerful mfer on the planet. The absolute giga chad.
Also loved Rufus declining Hojo's offer to 'help' Tseng as well. It's so subtle and the lighting in that scene doesn't help, but if you squint, there's a glint of genuine concern in Rufus' facial expression when Hojo delivers the news about Tseng. That, aside from declining Hojo's offer, gave us another glimpse of not only their connection but it also peels off another layer of Rufus' character.
On one hand, Rufus respects Tseng and his abilities enough to disallow Hojo from reducing him to an experimental labrat.
On the other hand, it just simply shows that Rufus does in fact have some sentimental capacity for his Turks, especially for someone as loyal as his right-hand man.
Maybe both...? Yes, both is good.
Here's to hoping the developers spoon feed us more Turk moments like these in Part 3!
Considering Rufus was on House arreast with the Turks for 4 years before his father's death. He has grown close to them. It is super super Obvious if you read On the Way to a Smile that Rufus loves his Turks. And the Turks love each other . Vled literally tell Reno that they were like his children.
LOVED reading this analysis! The Turks have been some of my favorites since I first played the original. They’re such fun characters that also add some nuance to the whole “Shinra is pure evil” thing.
When I played the OG, I felt neutral about Elena. She definitely had some character, but I just didn’t care about her. In Rebirth, though, they made it quite clear that she fits perfectly within the Turks and their eccentric cast and I love her so much! Your note about her sort of copying Reno is super interesting. Now that he’s back in action, I’ll be looking forward to seeing those two interact more.
Fantastic analysis there. I wanted to add something about Elena and imitation being the best form of flattery, you mentioned her speech method but the thing that stood out to me is her suit; Remake went a long way to showing each Turk with their own individualised suit, whereas Elena’s in Rebirth is exactly the same as Tseng, which felt very deliberate to me too.
I hadn't even considered this and I love it - especially as you say, the other three have their individual touches in their outfits but I'd looked at Elena's suit and hadn't seen anything 'stand out' to it... as a replica of Tseng's suit though, that says so much, especially given how she sees him in the OG and Case of Shinra. Great catch!
I just want to say, I appreciate this post and the other ones because the Turks are all new to me and I keep waiting for some backstory and none really comes lol. And like yeah I could read the wiki pages but that's not as fun.
Awww Love this post! I'm a fans of Turks series, will you ever make one for Rufus? In remake all hints about him in Wutai it's actually really interesting
>The Kingdom Hearts fandom has already been all over this one, but Elena’s ice cream certainly looked [familiar](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomHearts/comments/1b6c35q/anybody_else_excited_when_you_saw_elenas_ice_cream/), didn't it?
I kinda hate that they did a Kh reference, because there's a really fun and well executed pay off to the previous Elena scene there and everyone just ignores it instead focusing on the reference.
It's the same with her grenade kick, that sequence had me in awe and absolutely howling at the audacity of it, whenever anyone watches it or talks about it? Crickets.
Feels like there's so many great Elena moments that just get completely glossed over when discussing the game.
Reno being in this for like two minutes is just so odd. Tseng not dying is just...why? Why are they so afraid to actually follow through with this shit?
I think my favourite two moments with the Turks in Rebirth were: 1. Elena at the Haunted Hotel - where she belies all her previously asserted bravado by completely losing her shit when the front desk guy dangles down from the ceiling in front of her. 2. Tseng and Aerith when he's badly injured - "I never hated you" - A beautiful little line that tells you a lot about both characters.
I do liek the Turks, but I do wish they would show at least a bit of regret for being instrumental in the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents in Sector 7. Yet they are still all swagger and not even a shred of guilt.
I think they do show regret - Reno and Rude overtly in the Turks' HQ scene in Remake, whereas Tseng is more subtle but I think it's still there: we just don't see it under the mask he has to wear as a leader who *must* keep Reno and Rude in line for their own safety. I wrote a really *really* tl;dr about this in another [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/h8btau/og_spoilers_theres_nothing_more_precious_than_a/) so I'll be lazy and copy it below. I'm referencing the plot of Before Crisis here, which focuses on how impossible it is for a Turk to go against the orders of the Company (even if they want to) and the consequences for them if they try to do so. Towards the end of the game Tseng is hauled into a 'disciplinary hearing' where he, Reno and Rude are sentenced to execution for disobeying their orders, and are only saved (very dramatically of course) by Rufus at the last second: >As a reminder, the disciplinary hearing is held on 9 December. The Turks drop the plate sometime between 11 - 14 December in the same year. That’s the space of time we are working with. Less than a week from certain death to platefall. With the Shinra Old Guard still in place at the head of the company Tseng has precisely zero wiggle-room, nowhere to go if he wants to stay in the Board's good graces purely to keep himself, Reno and Rude alive. The President, Heidegger and Scarlet are watching every movement the Turks make with eagle eyes, just waiting for an excuse to justify getting rid of them permanently, and there’s only so much Rufus can do while he’s only VP. If Tseng ever needed that ice-wall between his actual feelings and the real world, he needs it now. And then the orders for the Sector Seven mission come through. >Let’s take another look at that [Turks HQ scene in Remake](https://youtu.be/iwKkSzQN5X4?t=2259), in the aftermath of platefall. Most people’s attention will naturally gravitate to Reno and Rude in this scene, because they are the ones visibly emoting. They are the ones processing some heavy, nasty stuff, and it’s clear to see in every line of their faces and every subtle hint in their voices. By contrast Tseng isn’t immediately as interesting to the casual viewer, at least not until he starts saying things that make you think ‘wow, what a bastard’. But let’s break it down a little more, shall we? > >Reno and Rude stew in silence, lost in their own worlds as they each try and work through things alone. Tseng has his head down, working, but he’s clearly attuned to what’s going on in the room. Reno only has to sigh for Tseng to glance over and decide that something needs to be said. Reno is clearly hurting badly, both physically (notice the empty medicine bottles on the arm of the couch) and mentally, but Tseng is delicate in how he phrases things. It’s not that Reno should probably have some time to recover, the way Tseng says it, but simply ‘you know…. You might be due for some R&R’. Reno has put in his time as a good employee; he’s due to get something back that was coming to him anyway. Nothing to do with the current situation. Not that Reno is fooled for an instant, but the way Tseng phrases the feedback gives it an aura of detachment. It’s not that Reno *needs time off*, it’s not that he *can’t cope*… but he’s earned it, and if that allows Reno to accept the offer without dinging his pride then all the better. Of course Reno feeling terrible about things is just going to ensure that he stays right where he is (has he ever abandoned the other two when the brown stuff is hitting the fan?) but the offer is there, open-ended. > >Tseng is engaging with the problem, so Rude takes it as an invitation to really engage. “What are we going to do about Sector Seven?” he asks, and Tseng has to remind him that they’re in no position to do *anything*. Shinra was about to execute the three of them for rebelling against orders less than a week prior: what are they *supposed* to do about Sector Seven at this point? This is the only time during the scene when Tseng shows any overt emotion, and it’s little less than a sigh. Tseng is just as frustrated and sick as the other two, but as leader he has an additional burden of responsibility to Reno and Rude: he has to keep them in line in order to keep them alive. Right now that means that Tseng, despite not giving the order to drop the plate, is put in the position of having to try and justify it. > >Notice that Tseng has all sorts of excuses lined up and ready to go. This has kept him up at night, and he’s constructed a narrative - more than one, in fact - to explain why they did what they did. None of the reasons he gives are the real answer, which is ‘if I had refused, or if you had refused, they would have lined all three of us up and shot us’ and Rude is just as aware of that as Tseng is. But the real answer is hard to stomach, so Tseng tries some alternatives. Here’s a handy justification about how someone else would have done the deed if the Turks had refused (which is arguably true); how does that suit you? Neither Reno or Rude are fans of that one. All right, Tseng has a completely different take lined up and ready to go (and if this didn’t convince you that he believes precisely nothing of what he’s saying, nothing will). How about ‘balancing the scales of what we’ve taken from the planet’, how does that one sound? (This, to me, almost sounds like he’s trying to figure out what he would say to Aeris if she ever called him on it. I don’t think this reasoning was constructed with Reno and Rude in mind) Reno and Rude are even more unconvinced, but this excuse has a secondary function: *Reno and Rude are now angry at Tseng.* > >Think about that for a moment. In psychological terms, that’s a pretty slick manoeuvre. Reno and Rude started by sitting in silence, anger and disgust turned inwards as they gnaw away at themselves for what they’ve done. Tseng gives them an outward target to focus on - himself - and now they’re both brimming with rage (“do you *actually* believe that?” Rude demands. “Does it matter?” asks Tseng. No, he doesn’t believe that. But he’s fulfilled his goal, and that’s what matters in this moment) Reno and Rude are successfully distracted from the self-destructive spiral they had been engaged in, and Rufus’ call comes at exactly the right time: Tseng can send both of his subordinates out into the night, furious at him rather than still eating themselves up inside, and give them a mission to focus on. By the time they come back, after a healthy dose of adrenaline, that anger will have subsided and they’ll probably realise what he was doing in that moment. And they will be a little further removed from the immediate aftermath of platefall, and it will be a little easier for them to sleep tonight. > >Probably not so for Tseng, on the other hand. Knowing him as we do from the Compilation, Tseng is as angry at the Sector Seven orders as Reno and Rude are. Unfortunately, *unlike* Reno and Rude, he cannot afford to let that anger show, even in front of the other two. Reno and Rude are safe to blow off steam and dissent in front of Tseng; he’s their boss, and he’s got their backs. But precisely because he’s their boss, Tseng cannot risk showing any hint of rebellion in front of the others, not right now after everything they’ve been through. Tseng agreeing that the mission was unjust, or wrong, would directly increase the chances that Reno or Rude would refuse the next terrible order that comes down the line. And, as all three Turks know all too well, to refuse an order right now guarantees that Shinra will kill them all. Tseng has to repeat the corporate line, has to wear the corporate mask while he does it, because he cannot risk Reno or Rude going off-mission before Rufus comes in and shakes up the Shinra hierarchy. It doesn’t matter that he doesn’t believe the bullshit justification he’s telling the others, and it doesn’t really even matter that they know he doesn’t believe it…. For the time being, he has to keep up that strong front of leadership: *I have decided that we’re going to follow our orders. And you may not like them, but you are not going to question* ***my*** *orders when I give them to you. This is how I keep us all alive right now.*
2 more things: I love that we actually fought Tseng, I don't think he ever got a battle even in the OG, and I liked that his fighting style was very martial arts-based, distinguishes him from Rude in a cool way. Also he and Elena's synergy attack is them doing identical moves, speaking to your point about her imitating him Vincent showing up to help the Turks get out of the temple, shows his loyalty to them and even Shinra as a whole, he has a close relationship with Reeve in Dirge of Cerberus too.
>I love that in the new version Tseng not only fights back and gets a minor win against Sephiroth's vessel despite being stabbed, then stands up to *walk it off* and then we see Rude and Reno helping him escape and Rufus protecting him from Hojo’s offer to ‘help’ too. Not only do we see the bonds between the Turks as a team still in play, but it gives me hope that we’ll see Tseng back again in Part 3. This. Tseng. My guy literally was like"Is this the Promised Land?" "No." "'Kay thanks, gonna go make that report." - Like he wasn't just stabbed by the most powerful mfer on the planet. The absolute giga chad. Also loved Rufus declining Hojo's offer to 'help' Tseng as well. It's so subtle and the lighting in that scene doesn't help, but if you squint, there's a glint of genuine concern in Rufus' facial expression when Hojo delivers the news about Tseng. That, aside from declining Hojo's offer, gave us another glimpse of not only their connection but it also peels off another layer of Rufus' character. On one hand, Rufus respects Tseng and his abilities enough to disallow Hojo from reducing him to an experimental labrat. On the other hand, it just simply shows that Rufus does in fact have some sentimental capacity for his Turks, especially for someone as loyal as his right-hand man. Maybe both...? Yes, both is good. Here's to hoping the developers spoon feed us more Turk moments like these in Part 3!
Considering Rufus was on House arreast with the Turks for 4 years before his father's death. He has grown close to them. It is super super Obvious if you read On the Way to a Smile that Rufus loves his Turks. And the Turks love each other . Vled literally tell Reno that they were like his children.
LOVED reading this analysis! The Turks have been some of my favorites since I first played the original. They’re such fun characters that also add some nuance to the whole “Shinra is pure evil” thing. When I played the OG, I felt neutral about Elena. She definitely had some character, but I just didn’t care about her. In Rebirth, though, they made it quite clear that she fits perfectly within the Turks and their eccentric cast and I love her so much! Your note about her sort of copying Reno is super interesting. Now that he’s back in action, I’ll be looking forward to seeing those two interact more.
Fantastic analysis there. I wanted to add something about Elena and imitation being the best form of flattery, you mentioned her speech method but the thing that stood out to me is her suit; Remake went a long way to showing each Turk with their own individualised suit, whereas Elena’s in Rebirth is exactly the same as Tseng, which felt very deliberate to me too.
I hadn't even considered this and I love it - especially as you say, the other three have their individual touches in their outfits but I'd looked at Elena's suit and hadn't seen anything 'stand out' to it... as a replica of Tseng's suit though, that says so much, especially given how she sees him in the OG and Case of Shinra. Great catch!
I just want to say, I appreciate this post and the other ones because the Turks are all new to me and I keep waiting for some backstory and none really comes lol. And like yeah I could read the wiki pages but that's not as fun.
I wish dark side Cloud could finished Elena, hate that bitch so much. Screw Tifa, you prevent Cloud fulfilling his destiny.
Awww Love this post! I'm a fans of Turks series, will you ever make one for Rufus? In remake all hints about him in Wutai it's actually really interesting
>The Kingdom Hearts fandom has already been all over this one, but Elena’s ice cream certainly looked [familiar](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomHearts/comments/1b6c35q/anybody_else_excited_when_you_saw_elenas_ice_cream/), didn't it? I kinda hate that they did a Kh reference, because there's a really fun and well executed pay off to the previous Elena scene there and everyone just ignores it instead focusing on the reference. It's the same with her grenade kick, that sequence had me in awe and absolutely howling at the audacity of it, whenever anyone watches it or talks about it? Crickets. Feels like there's so many great Elena moments that just get completely glossed over when discussing the game.
Her scream when you Pressure/Stagger her is so sick but light blue popsicle.
I really enjoyed reading this wow
Reno being in this for like two minutes is just so odd. Tseng not dying is just...why? Why are they so afraid to actually follow through with this shit?
Tseng didn't actually die in the OG either, it's why he's still knocking about in Advent Children.
Tseng never dies though lol, wdym
Tseng did not Die in the Original. Cat Sith finds him