Haha! That's a fun read! You really got tag-teamed by multiple Jews, and they don't really know or understand what you believe. Despite that, you did a great job and really held your own. I'd say you were VERY respectful to the Jews arguing with you and also to Judaism. I don't think you showed any sign of losing control of your emotions. Basically, they're all arguing with things they've HEARD about Christianity, instead of arguing with what you were actually saying, even after you purposely distanced yourself from typical Christian beliefs. In that sense, it was just like arguing with Christians. It's like there's nothing you can do that will make the person you're talking to hear YOU instead of their own preconceptions. I doubt that any of them would be happy if someone argued with what they HEARD about Judaism, instead of arguing with what they actually believe. It's basically a straw-man argument. In general, they did not pay you back for your respect. Maybe one of the many Jews that were piling on top of you would be interested to come here and express themselves? That would be: u/nadivofgoshen, u/arb1974, u/Wyvernkeeper, u/Shnowi. If so, I or many of the people here would be glad to discuss or debate. I think a key starting point would be for them to interact with what we really believe, not what THEY think we believe. 😄 At least u/nadivofgoshen said at the end: > Although these discussions hurt me deeply, in the end I have nothing but respect for you. Just like him, I have "nothing but respect" for you, SalvaBee. I admire how you handled it.

People fall into that robotic "does not compute, attack with nearest parameters" mode when encountering something they've don't understand. They default to their pre built arguments.

> They default to their pre built arguments. Yep. I think that's what happened here. It's basically, "Well, these are the arguments that I have ready to go, so I'm going to make YOU fit them." 😋

Thanks a lot. I might invite them over actually. I almost lost control over my emotions when debating u/nadivofgoshen. Luckily I didn't post what I had written xD.

I think reading the discussion- it would be worth asking you, what you change your opinion? I think the answer is no From his perspective, Israel is exclusive - and nothing from the Old Testament refutes that - so without expanding his textual sources he won’t accept your position. Interestingly, I happen to agree with some of his core principles- Israel is exclusive- but I disagree with his and the general consensus of who the Israelites are. John 8 42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on My own, but He sent Me. 43Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies.

>Interestingly, I happen to agree with some of his core principles- Israel is exclusive- but I disagree with his and the general consensus of who the Israelites are. Me too. However when I first brought it up I immediately got slapped in the face with "cultural appropriation" so I decided to steer clear of that topic. I didn't want to offend them too much and that really got them triggered.

> I didn't want to offend them too much and that really got them triggered. You're a nicer person than me (that's easy to do). When people show that they're looking forward to playing the "I'm offended" card, it makes me want to jump up and down on their triggers. I'd be surprised if any older Jews use the "cultural appropriation" line. It's such a nothing-burger. Older people would just ignore it at the worst, or even smile and appreciate it at the best. A significant portion of the world is deciding for some dumb reason that they don't like the Jews again. In many cases, those people acting that way are the same purple-haired people that don't know what gender they are, and who also identify themselves by what offends them. Meanwhile, my theory is that their Jewish equivalents that identify themselves by what offends them are so upset that people are imitating their culture. The best part is that a SIGNIFICANT part of that culture came to them from Yahweh. It wasn't theirs in the first place! It was His! So they're being hated and physically attacked on one side, and imitated and often adored on the other side. Somehow, both sides are put in the same bucket...

>You're a nicer person than me (that's easy to do). When people show that they're looking forward to playing the "I'm offended" card, it makes me want to jump up and down on their triggers. I'm like that too. But I prefer to do that IRL and not on Reddit. I don't wanna get banned again lol. >So they're being hated and physically attacked on one side, and imitated and often adored on the other side. Somehow, both sides are put in the same bucket... I think you're right. If only there was a way to let them see that not everybody is on the extremes. In the discussion I tried to make it clear that there are more nuanced views but it didn't really work unfortunately.

>but I disagree with his and the general consensus of who the Israelites are. Who do you think they are?

Don’t let them get to you. Remember the Jews are following Judaism. The religion from Judah. It doesn’t truly follow the Tannahk. They have a lot of traditions and work around from Yah’s instructions.

The one guy is hung up on Gentiles are not part of Israel/ the covenant. There was a mixed multitude that went up out of Egypt with Israel (Exodus 12:38). They didn't just run off. They stayed and worshiped Yah alongside the physical descendants of Jacob. There were Goyim that stood at the mountain and shouted their allegiance the same as the Israelites did. >>So Moses came and called the **elders of the PEOPLE** and set before them all these words that the LORD had commanded him. **All the PEOPLE answered together** and said, "All that the LORD has spoken we will do." And Moses reported the words of the people to the LORD. >>Exodus 19:7-8 ESV The elders of the PEOPLE, not just Israel. The covenant renewal in Deuteronomy 29 specifically includes gentiles and goes as far as calling them "his people". "His people" has always been those who follow Yah in obedience. That's what determines who is an Israelite. >>Therefore keep the words of this covenant and do them, that you may prosper in all that you do. "You are standing today, all of you, before the LORD your God: the heads of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, all the men of Israel, your little ones, your wives, **and the sojourner who is in your camp, from the one who chops your wood to the one who draws your water, so that you may enter into the sworn covenant of the LORD your God, which the LORD your God is making with you today, that he may establish you today as HIS PEOPLE, and that he may be YOUR GOD,** as he promised you, and as he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. It is not with you alone that I am making this sworn covenant, but with whoever is standing here with us today before the LORD our God, and with whoever is not here with us today. >>Deuteronomy 29:9-15 ESV Think Paul said something different? Nope. >>For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. >>Romans 2:28-29 ESV Edit: where I say above that "There were Goyim that stood at the mountain", upon their dedication to the God of Israel, they became Israelites. I'm sure all the males were probably circumcised as well.

What did I do in my life to be mentioned in a space of Messies? I would rather get stabbed than argue with Gentiles over a one letter of G-d's words, which I spend my life studying.

> What did I do in my life to be mentioned in a space of Messies? Maybe you were just lucky? 😋 > I would rather get stabbed than argue with Gentiles over a one letter of G-d's words, which I spend my life studying. I'm also spending every day of my life studying His words. Maybe you'd be lightly curious, in-between either vomiting or seeking someone to stab you (however you choose to deal with talking to us) to find out what we REALLY believe? Just as a sort of intellectual exercise? I think you might find out that we reject Christianity for many of the same reasons that you do. Either way, whatever you decide, thanks for poking your head in here. I would also be curious to hear what YOU believe. You could go on at length and I'd be fascinated. You should feel mostly free to say it how you see it, even if it's insulting. I'm not tender and naive (although others here might be). We just ask that you try to keep the content as high as possible, and the meaningless insults as low as possible. Again. Thanks for the visit. You're welcome here.

You got into a discussion with one and. Just wanted to ask my fellow believers whether I handled it correctly. No offense to you was intended. But now you are here, feel free to talk with us. I think most people on this subreddit have spent a large portion of their lives studying His word.

You could study Torah for a hundred years but if you do not have the indwelling of His Spirit, it’s all for not.

Oh my. 🤔

It’s the honest truth. Bloodline Israel has been partially blinded until the time of the gentiles is fulfilled, because they rejected His Son. They’re operating off of their own “knowledge and wisdom”, as opposed to His Spirit’s guidance. *Romans 11:7-8 “What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8Just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.” 11:25 “For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” What’s the only way to achieve the indwelling of the Spirit of our Creator? Accepting His Son.

You know I'm on "Team EU", but I'm disagreeing here. I agree that everyone, including the Jews (maybe even PARTICULARLY the Jews) needs to acknowledge that Jesus is the Messiah. **I'm not at all flexible on that.** That being said, I think that everyone benefits from whatever degree they obey Yahweh's Torah. A little is better than none. A lot is better than a little. Atheists will benefit from obeying the Torah. It's the correct and proper way to live, and it brings blessings to those who obey and curses to those who disobey. To pick the most obvious example: murder. Any culture that establishes that murder is wrong will immediately do better than a culture that does not. All of the other commandments will similarly benefit any individual and any community that implements them. Now, will people who don't follow Jesus and serve Yahweh miss the FULL benefit of the Torah? Yes, absolutely. My best guess is that the Torah is infinite in its benefits, and a person could live forever, following that path, and get closer to the heart and character of Yahweh the entire time, and thus benefit the entire time. I've set up FJOT to be a meeting place at the feet of Yahweh for both Jews and Christians. Each has something VITAL that the other side lacks. Christians have the Messiah (although it's mostly in name, since their version of him is Lawless, and thus completely unlike the person that Jesus was) and the Jews have the Torah. Jesus is the living will of Yahweh and the Torah is the written will of Yahweh. Neither Christians or Jews have "arrived" or is complete without incorporating what the other side has. Both have a great thing, but both are also fatally flawed. Greet your future brother. He just poked his head through the door. If I have my way, which hopefully is Yahweh's way, there's a LOT more of this that's going to happen here in this subreddit. 😄