New EU regulations taking place on July 6th. That's why we didn't get 2024 version and it's officially discontinued in EU already. We won't be able to legally register them if they weren't first registered in EU before the deadline. Even if newly imported or from unsold stock. Got it from a dealer who still had stock.
I am not entirely sure which part specifically but it has something to do with GSR2 aka safety regulations. Toyota commented they would need a complete redesign of the car to match the regulations and it was not worth it.
Toyota had a 86 built with the GR corolla's powertrain. They are bringing it to SEMA. The rumor is that they will later introduce it as the Celica GT-Four as a hybrid, but more for power than fuel economy. But again, those are rumors from the internet.
Larry Chen did a video on YouTube with the guys building the car. It's going to have GT-Four tribute livery. But it's not a Toyota factory product, just a tuner build paid for by Toyota.
That there's apparently gonna be one, although it is a Forbes re-post, so be cautious https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2024/06/28/toyota-gr86-to-finally-get-turbo-while-cutting-ties-with-subaru/
This is supposedly a TLDR graphic with the requirements. I heard it came down mostly to cameras and sensors...
https://preview.redd.it/37kkrgqbhy9d1.png?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be3f99587c0203566a5884471267706c31d9021a
"Event data recorder" "Distraction and drowsiness monitoring" What in the FUCK? Who is that data sent to? The government? That's straight out of the CCP handbook
It's not local. Well, maybe it is in the EU, but in the US that info is sent off (the cars come with their own modem) and then sold to insurers to raise everyone's rates.
I thought that stuff was an opt in thing to help bring down rates for an individual who participates. The data still gets sold no matter what? That’s crazy if so. I feel like we need to get to the point where we realize that data truly belongs to the individual and it shouldn’t be on the company to choose to sell and make additional profit
"Event" in this case refers to accidents, near-misses, that sort of thing.
Event data recorders are becoming increasingly common as vehicles have more sensors built into them and therefore have more information about the environment around them at the time of an accident. Essentially, they're keeping a rolling copy of things like sensor data, driver inputs, speed, GPS, whatever. All of the data that the car is generating is being recorded in a buffer.
Then, when an "event" occurs, it will take the data from the buffer and move it into long-term storage. Depending on the vehicle, it may only be storing a few seconds from before the event, or up to a few minutes.
That way the data is available for analysis after the accident so that they can put together a better picture of what happened.
Do I really have to explain that an AI controlling the speed of the car you are “driving” is not a good idea? Could also mean real time monitoring to traffic enforcement bureaus around the EU. Gross.
It's reasonable to assume that the data is being stored somewhere on government or government-run computers like, "random" example, the Google/NSA facility in Utah. Not just for possible future use, but in updating a data profile of everything learned about you since birth, when your DNA profile is permanently entered into long-term data storage. Not just the data, by the way. BUT AN ACTUAL PHYSICAL DNA SAMPLE. This last part true of every birth in America since the 1960s, I think it is.
This kind of shit is why my newest car is a 2006. I will continue to buy old exotics well out of warranty as long as my options in new cars have all this nonsense on them
Ever been to Cuba? Yeah, all Detroit-made cars from the fifties and sixties. They somehow manage to keep 'em rollin', even where parts are no long available. Not everything about the "good old days" is mythological.
that would be nice in Europe as well, but the problem is we have salt on the roads which kills cars in about 15-20 years, it's really really really expensive to keep on the road after that
Wh-…. What? Does the EU want to ban all cars without this stuff then? Cause that would include most cars that I know of.
Don’t get me wrong, these are all lovely safety features to have… but how are they banning the GR86 over it? Makes no sense to me.
Yeah I can't say I've followed how all this went down, just stuff I've read recently...I'm in US, so only heard about it when exploring the twins before buying one this past year. I saw an English you-tuber testing and saying how great the 2nd gen is but it will soon be discontinued over there...and that got me searching. If you Google GSR2, you'll find some more detail. I guess any vehicle prior is grandfathered in, up until the recent deadline.
Unfortunately, I would imagine it's likely going to cascade down to us folks outside the EU with some time...as manufacturers have to create platforms that coexist in global markets. Meaning it likely costs them too much money to create vehicles that are "US only", "EU only", "JDM only", etc. So it seems likely to me that the restrictions will in some ways affect us here eventually.
Some of this reports as though they're "paving the way" for automnomous vehicles. Fuck that. Don't shoot the messenger. I think it's all shitty. I've got maybe 20 years of driving left in me...hoping to be driving a manual ICE for the rest of my days...but those days seem to be numbered.
https://preview.redd.it/svgmys2uzz9d1.png?width=3120&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7f24d5ef7ec94cb396ae4ec10b69a7637008ab8
It's all about control. Control of an ever-growing list of things in your life. By the good folks who know what's good for you much better than you could ever manage for yourself.
New EU vehicle requirements:
- intelligent speed assistance
- reversing detection with camera or sensors
- attention warning in case of driver drowsiness or distraction
- event data recorders as well
- emergency stop signal
Link: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_4312
It’s like Subaru eyesight, something that will emergency brake for collisions and stop you from swerving into oncoming traffic via lane-keep assist, that kind of thing.
Yeah, but you guys have like 1000 other cool cars to choose from. The UK is the nugget capital of the EU. You guys have access to Kei cars without minimum import timelines like Canada and the US. If I lived in the UK, I'd have the poor man version of Jay Leno's garage. Nothing over 3000lbs or with an automatic.
Sucks cause I really like pop up head lights. They give so much personality. If they want to ban anything, the cyber truck seems like a way bigger safety disaster
Cybertruck is not sold in the EU since it could not pass pedestrian safety standards (although there are supposedly loopholes allowing to people to register it anyway, it is significantly more difficult and expensive).
Safety regulations have a point, mostly to prevent shit like the cyber truck from hitting the streets. But there has to be some middle ground. There is no reason to ban the GR86/BRZ. In fact, the BRZ won some highly acclaimed safety award not long ago.
Honestly, if its below a certain weight and would take the most amount of damage in a crash with your average sedan why not let them be. Safety hasnt really improved since the 90s for the most part if compared to national crash data so this is all just about control/taking your money/and making cars less fun super bricks that beep at you for doing anything wrong.
Soon we will have cars that shut off 10 seconds after taking a hand off the wheel with included heartrate monitor, 24 micro airbags each costing 700 dollars a pop. Organic tissue sensor with trunk included that will call the cops if anybody is in the car for more than 20 minutes without the drivers phone being within proximity.
If you hit a pedestrian with a sharp protruding object like a pop-up headlight, chance of survival goes WAY down, at least according to official reports.
It’s about to be how Arizona is to Southern California. All my dirt bike guys especially know to go to Arizona to buy your bikes so you don’t have to worry about sticker laws and off-road laws of the land.
The sticker laws. If you have a dirt bike brought in CA you have to register it to ride it offroad in a lot of places (this is mainly dunes with BLM land or any park ranger enforcement).
If you bought that exact same bike in AZ and have a title for it you can ride it anywhere in CA without registering it. CA requires some more stickers for their amazing off-roading, but is extremely welcoming to tourists who want to off-road and not pay the price for it.
Also emission laws as if you have a CA bike they do have some muffler laws (I’m not familiar with heavily) but I was told how a buddy had an inspection at the OHV area and had to pack it up and not ride because it wasn’t passing their test. (His bike was purchased and registered to him in CA)
Some states in the US don’t require front plates. Even in states where they’re required, cops are usually pretty lax about it unless your car is illegally modded in other ways too
Yeah, my BRZ doesn’t have a front license plate holder. So I had it on the dash and it somehow went missing? No clue how. Anyways I haven’t gotten around to replacing it yet and haven’t had any problems from cops about it. Even got pulled over for speeding and the cop didn’t mention it
Maybe, but if this ban remains in place, you’re never gonna be able to buy and register one legally, regardless of how far in the future you buy the car since you can’t register it after a specific date in the very near future.
It shouldn't affect used cars market for those that are already registered in EU. New ones and imports from other markets without finding some loopholes will be impossible to register though.
Something something safety something something. GSR2 is a very long list of new stuff that takes out such cars as Porsche Macan out of the market and many more.
I think us who drive those types are safer to begin with...we're just more engaged with the drive, not just trying to make it to work on our "couch with wheels" like a lot of others. They're so bored they have to worry about falling asleep.
Not for the people in them. There are strong statistical links to higher survivability the heavier the vehicle you are in.
[https://www.iihs.org/topics/vehicle-size-and-weight](https://www.iihs.org/topics/vehicle-size-and-weight)
surely you can see the problem with “just drive the heaviest car out there” and the arms race that creates? Also, it’s a selfish outlook on road safety, especially with how dangerous SUVs are to pedestrians.
“safety for me but not for thee” i suppose
also, while they’re safer for the unlikely catastrophic head on collision, they’re unsafe is many other ways like rollover accidents (even for the driver).
https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo
I can see it, It *is* selfish - but this is classic game theory. Understanding that people are buying big SUVs as rational actors with their self interest in mind, because the *all cause* *occupant* mortality in road accidents decrease with higher vehicle weights.
I'm not arguing that trucks/suvs aren't bad for *other* people. I'm just clarifying that generally, trucks/suvs are safer for the *driver*. Its actually a great example of the prisoner's dilemma, and has been highlighted in the Journal of Transport Economics and Policy as far back as 2002.
>Using the classic prisoner's dilemma framework in game theory, this paper argues that the current emphasis on occupant protection may result in a pareto inferior outcome. Shifting the relative emphasis from increasing occupant protection to non-aggressiveness of a vehicle, however, is likely to improve the environmental quality as well as reducing the road trauma.
I agree its a regulatory failure - but I just personally don't see it as a failure of personal morality. Its a system that as constructed, people acting rationally still leads to an outcome that's worse for everyone. *Asking* people to act outside of that best interest is probably not an effective strategy - so you need to change the rules of the game via regulation.
Many of these safety regulations are equally to protect other people on the road as much as they are for your own safety. So that excuse doesn't really fly. But even still, the government has an obligation to enforce laws that even protect you from yourself.
The EU sucks! They’ve been slowly banning fun cars. Climate and safety excuses but you read the regs and they are so freaking arbitrary.
Just so people knows, this matters for US customers. It’s unlikely we’ll see these cars manufactured for much longer. The closest welll get is some kind of 1.5 liter hybrid with tons of safety features that rides like a 1997 corolla.
I wonder what the ban is going to do to the second-hand market. I want the car pretty badly, but I just couldn't justify buying it new. I was hoping to get one in good condition with 100kms on it for ~€22k (well, probably for previous gen tho, these will take longer to come down in price). But now I'm kind of worried with lack of supply of new cars, the prices will start climbing now.
New EU vehicle requirements:
* intelligent speed assistance
* reversing detection with camera or sensors
* attention warning in case of driver drowsiness or distraction
* event data recorders as well
* emergency stop signal
Link: [https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip\_22\_4312](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_4312)
Thanks! Surely the manufacturers can add these mandatory things and route them to corresponding fuses in the fusebox, if you're drifting my catch.... Right?!
I don't know your situation and what you mean by shipped (from outside EU, from inside EU, is it already there). But better be fast boiiii because as far as I'm aware the cutoff is 7th July for first EU registration. There are companies that might help you handle all the tech/document stuff if you're not able to do it yourself.
After a quick google search after another military comment:
It seems that military registration is a separate thing and you register it with US military rather than EU countries so EU rules don't apply.
Even cars such as Renault Zoe or petrol Porsche Macan have died. Alpine A110 would die as well but there's a two-year an exemption for very low production cars so they're dead or redesigned to fit regulations after that as well.
From a quick google search military registration is a separate thing and you register it with US military rather than Germany so the German rules don't apply.
I gotta say, I was a safer driver without all these "safety assist" bullshit things. I had groceries in the passenger seat of my brz and was super distracted from the non-stop "ding ding ding." Eventually had to put the seatbelt around my freaking ramen. The Lane Exiting warning, won't stop beeping is you don't have seatbelts on, yell at you if you're coming up on someone too fast. There is so much beeping and yelling at you from the car, I get distracted by that... (Keep in mind I just switched over from a 2016 Scion iM). Feels like they're restraining our freedom "for your safety." The beginning of every robot A.I. movie that goes wrong.
Plus, we are making it so that people are more comfortable being on their phones while driving. I've seen it happen. They say, "oh the car will tell me." Crazy shit.
Don't know if you watch Clarkson's Farm but there's another great example in series 3 when Kaleb must wear a safety harness whilst in the cherry picker.
When the picker gets lowered so Kaleb and get out, he forgets he is harnessed in, steps out, gets snapped back by the harness and wangs his head on the side of the cherry picker.
Health and safety gone mad.
Your examples make me think that people will get so used to warning alarms etc., that they'll stop looking for hazards themselves.
Can’t believe the EU is so backwards on this. Maybe they should look more closely at the “whole of life” environmental impact of EVs. Not sure there’s much of a difference when EVERYTHING is taken into account (including such items as mining of rare earth metals, generation of electricity to recharge batteries, lifespan, disposal & recycling/ re-use, etc.
What are you even ranting about? It has nothing to do with it being a ICE car. It’s safety regulation compliance. It’s lacking the tech features needed
GSR2 specifically targets first registration in EU (aka new vehicle). Do you have a source on things you claim?
For example this says for all new vehicles:
[https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip\_22\_4312](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_4312)
Sorry for the dumb question but what ban? Are GR86s banned in EU?
New EU regulations taking place on July 6th. That's why we didn't get 2024 version and it's officially discontinued in EU already. We won't be able to legally register them if they weren't first registered in EU before the deadline. Even if newly imported or from unsold stock. Got it from a dealer who still had stock.
What do the regulations prohibit
I am not entirely sure which part specifically but it has something to do with GSR2 aka safety regulations. Toyota commented they would need a complete redesign of the car to match the regulations and it was not worth it.
Man that sucks
That explains the tease for a 2028 model Edit: debunked
What’s the tease for the 2028 model?
Toyota had a 86 built with the GR corolla's powertrain. They are bringing it to SEMA. The rumor is that they will later introduce it as the Celica GT-Four as a hybrid, but more for power than fuel economy. But again, those are rumors from the internet.
Larry Chen did a video on YouTube with the guys building the car. It's going to have GT-Four tribute livery. But it's not a Toyota factory product, just a tuner build paid for by Toyota.
That there's apparently gonna be one, although it is a Forbes re-post, so be cautious https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2024/06/28/toyota-gr86-to-finally-get-turbo-while-cutting-ties-with-subaru/
Lmao electric 86
Forbes is honestly pretty much bs
It’s the same untrustworthy “source” Japanese tabloid. It’s been reposted dozens of times.
Good to know
Forbes is honestly pretty much bs
This is supposedly a TLDR graphic with the requirements. I heard it came down mostly to cameras and sensors... https://preview.redd.it/37kkrgqbhy9d1.png?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be3f99587c0203566a5884471267706c31d9021a
"Event data recorder" "Distraction and drowsiness monitoring" What in the FUCK? Who is that data sent to? The government? That's straight out of the CCP handbook
EDR is like a locally recorded blackbox in planes. Distraction and drowsiness tho...
It's not local. Well, maybe it is in the EU, but in the US that info is sent off (the cars come with their own modem) and then sold to insurers to raise everyone's rates.
Which was the purpose all along. While the insurance companies line our pockets we pretend it's all about you and your safety.
I thought that stuff was an opt in thing to help bring down rates for an individual who participates. The data still gets sold no matter what? That’s crazy if so. I feel like we need to get to the point where we realize that data truly belongs to the individual and it shouldn’t be on the company to choose to sell and make additional profit
We haven't been in Kansas for a LONG time now.
Some manufacturers do, some don’t. BMW does not but Buick does. Those are the only 2 I for sure know about.
Isn't the distraction and drowsiness in every single car... It's to let the driver know to take a break when taking long trips...
Its not in every car. I never had it until my E350.
Well it was usually a thing in luxury brands but now you can see it in any new car.
"Event" in this case refers to accidents, near-misses, that sort of thing. Event data recorders are becoming increasingly common as vehicles have more sensors built into them and therefore have more information about the environment around them at the time of an accident. Essentially, they're keeping a rolling copy of things like sensor data, driver inputs, speed, GPS, whatever. All of the data that the car is generating is being recorded in a buffer. Then, when an "event" occurs, it will take the data from the buffer and move it into long-term storage. Depending on the vehicle, it may only be storing a few seconds from before the event, or up to a few minutes. That way the data is available for analysis after the accident so that they can put together a better picture of what happened.
CPP?
Club penguin police
CCP
Intelligent speed assist is just as scary if not more so. Absolute 1984 shit.
How so
Do I really have to explain that an AI controlling the speed of the car you are “driving” is not a good idea? Could also mean real time monitoring to traffic enforcement bureaus around the EU. Gross.
Annoy wrong politician and your Tesla comes gunning for ya or sends you off a bridge ☠️
It's reasonable to assume it can do more than that, such as drive your car to the police station to answer "a few questions", for example.
It’s speed assist, not drive assist
Idk why you’re downvoted… most of the shit in that graphic is completely unneeded. But government gonna overstep like always.
It's reasonable to assume that the data is being stored somewhere on government or government-run computers like, "random" example, the Google/NSA facility in Utah. Not just for possible future use, but in updating a data profile of everything learned about you since birth, when your DNA profile is permanently entered into long-term data storage. Not just the data, by the way. BUT AN ACTUAL PHYSICAL DNA SAMPLE. This last part true of every birth in America since the 1960s, I think it is.
All new cars have EDR. Educate urself first before a stupid comment moron
That's actually not true at all lol....post a source
Welcome to the new world order
This kind of shit is why my newest car is a 2006. I will continue to buy old exotics well out of warranty as long as my options in new cars have all this nonsense on them
[удалено]
My S2000 has no airbags and Porsche never used Takata so I'm safe
Ever been to Cuba? Yeah, all Detroit-made cars from the fifties and sixties. They somehow manage to keep 'em rollin', even where parts are no long available. Not everything about the "good old days" is mythological.
that would be nice in Europe as well, but the problem is we have salt on the roads which kills cars in about 15-20 years, it's really really really expensive to keep on the road after that
Wh-…. What? Does the EU want to ban all cars without this stuff then? Cause that would include most cars that I know of. Don’t get me wrong, these are all lovely safety features to have… but how are they banning the GR86 over it? Makes no sense to me.
Yeah I can't say I've followed how all this went down, just stuff I've read recently...I'm in US, so only heard about it when exploring the twins before buying one this past year. I saw an English you-tuber testing and saying how great the 2nd gen is but it will soon be discontinued over there...and that got me searching. If you Google GSR2, you'll find some more detail. I guess any vehicle prior is grandfathered in, up until the recent deadline. Unfortunately, I would imagine it's likely going to cascade down to us folks outside the EU with some time...as manufacturers have to create platforms that coexist in global markets. Meaning it likely costs them too much money to create vehicles that are "US only", "EU only", "JDM only", etc. So it seems likely to me that the restrictions will in some ways affect us here eventually. Some of this reports as though they're "paving the way" for automnomous vehicles. Fuck that. Don't shoot the messenger. I think it's all shitty. I've got maybe 20 years of driving left in me...hoping to be driving a manual ICE for the rest of my days...but those days seem to be numbered. https://preview.redd.it/svgmys2uzz9d1.png?width=3120&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7f24d5ef7ec94cb396ae4ec10b69a7637008ab8
It's all about control. Control of an ever-growing list of things in your life. By the good folks who know what's good for you much better than you could ever manage for yourself.
Green new deal and other commie stuff
Why tho
While Brexit was overall dumb, sometimes the EU makes me wonder
EU is a scam
Based and RedPilled
New EU vehicle requirements: - intelligent speed assistance - reversing detection with camera or sensors - attention warning in case of driver drowsiness or distraction - event data recorders as well - emergency stop signal Link: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_4312
It’s like Subaru eyesight, something that will emergency brake for collisions and stop you from swerving into oncoming traffic via lane-keep assist, that kind of thing.
Yeah, but you guys have like 1000 other cool cars to choose from. The UK is the nugget capital of the EU. You guys have access to Kei cars without minimum import timelines like Canada and the US. If I lived in the UK, I'd have the poor man version of Jay Leno's garage. Nothing over 3000lbs or with an automatic.
I remember when the EU killed pop up head lamps for the rest of us.
Sucks cause I really like pop up head lights. They give so much personality. If they want to ban anything, the cyber truck seems like a way bigger safety disaster
Cybertruck is not sold in the EU since it could not pass pedestrian safety standards (although there are supposedly loopholes allowing to people to register it anyway, it is significantly more difficult and expensive).
Safety regulations have a point, mostly to prevent shit like the cyber truck from hitting the streets. But there has to be some middle ground. There is no reason to ban the GR86/BRZ. In fact, the BRZ won some highly acclaimed safety award not long ago.
Honestly, if its below a certain weight and would take the most amount of damage in a crash with your average sedan why not let them be. Safety hasnt really improved since the 90s for the most part if compared to national crash data so this is all just about control/taking your money/and making cars less fun super bricks that beep at you for doing anything wrong. Soon we will have cars that shut off 10 seconds after taking a hand off the wheel with included heartrate monitor, 24 micro airbags each costing 700 dollars a pop. Organic tissue sensor with trunk included that will call the cops if anybody is in the car for more than 20 minutes without the drivers phone being within proximity.
That was them?? Ah thats lame! I wonder what was their reasoning
If you hit a pedestrian with a sharp protruding object like a pop-up headlight, chance of survival goes WAY down, at least according to official reports.
Imported from Germany (no allocations here) and after all the procedures up and running with 62km on the odometer. Hype is through the roof.
It’s about to be how Arizona is to Southern California. All my dirt bike guys especially know to go to Arizona to buy your bikes so you don’t have to worry about sticker laws and off-road laws of the land.
How is an off road bike being sold in California different than one in Arizona?
The sticker laws. If you have a dirt bike brought in CA you have to register it to ride it offroad in a lot of places (this is mainly dunes with BLM land or any park ranger enforcement). If you bought that exact same bike in AZ and have a title for it you can ride it anywhere in CA without registering it. CA requires some more stickers for their amazing off-roading, but is extremely welcoming to tourists who want to off-road and not pay the price for it. Also emission laws as if you have a CA bike they do have some muffler laws (I’m not familiar with heavily) but I was told how a buddy had an inspection at the OHV area and had to pack it up and not ride because it wasn’t passing their test. (His bike was purchased and registered to him in CA)
Wow. That sucks. Thanks for the info.
I wish we had the long short license plates in the US. Looks so much more sore than our boxy ones.
Don't even have front plates where I'm at in Canada
Some states in the US don’t require front plates. Even in states where they’re required, cops are usually pretty lax about it unless your car is illegally modded in other ways too
Yeah, my BRZ doesn’t have a front license plate holder. So I had it on the dash and it somehow went missing? No clue how. Anyways I haven’t gotten around to replacing it yet and haven’t had any problems from cops about it. Even got pulled over for speeding and the cop didn’t mention it
Another GR86 in Poland? I'm wondering how many of them are here. I've got a red one :)
I wonder if this is going to make the car worth quite something in the future then
Maybe, but if this ban remains in place, you’re never gonna be able to buy and register one legally, regardless of how far in the future you buy the car since you can’t register it after a specific date in the very near future.
It shouldn't affect used cars market for those that are already registered in EU. New ones and imports from other markets without finding some loopholes will be impossible to register though.
Ah I see good point. It’ll just come to how the government regulates it with insurance companies or whatever in EU.
Govern me harder daddy
What’s this about a ban?
New EU regulations taking place on July 6th. That's why we didn't get 2024 version and it's officially discontinued in EU already.
Yes what about this car is non compliant with the ban?
Something something safety something something. GSR2 is a very long list of new stuff that takes out such cars as Porsche Macan out of the market and many more.
Safety regulations are bs. Put that shit on SUV's and minivans. We don't buy sports cars, muscle cars, or exotics to be "safe".
I think us who drive those types are safer to begin with...we're just more engaged with the drive, not just trying to make it to work on our "couch with wheels" like a lot of others. They're so bored they have to worry about falling asleep.
SUVs are one of the most dangerous vehicles out there as well.
Not for the people in them. There are strong statistical links to higher survivability the heavier the vehicle you are in. [https://www.iihs.org/topics/vehicle-size-and-weight](https://www.iihs.org/topics/vehicle-size-and-weight)
surely you can see the problem with “just drive the heaviest car out there” and the arms race that creates? Also, it’s a selfish outlook on road safety, especially with how dangerous SUVs are to pedestrians. “safety for me but not for thee” i suppose also, while they’re safer for the unlikely catastrophic head on collision, they’re unsafe is many other ways like rollover accidents (even for the driver). https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo
I can see it, It *is* selfish - but this is classic game theory. Understanding that people are buying big SUVs as rational actors with their self interest in mind, because the *all cause* *occupant* mortality in road accidents decrease with higher vehicle weights. I'm not arguing that trucks/suvs aren't bad for *other* people. I'm just clarifying that generally, trucks/suvs are safer for the *driver*. Its actually a great example of the prisoner's dilemma, and has been highlighted in the Journal of Transport Economics and Policy as far back as 2002. >Using the classic prisoner's dilemma framework in game theory, this paper argues that the current emphasis on occupant protection may result in a pareto inferior outcome. Shifting the relative emphasis from increasing occupant protection to non-aggressiveness of a vehicle, however, is likely to improve the environmental quality as well as reducing the road trauma. I agree its a regulatory failure - but I just personally don't see it as a failure of personal morality. Its a system that as constructed, people acting rationally still leads to an outcome that's worse for everyone. *Asking* people to act outside of that best interest is probably not an effective strategy - so you need to change the rules of the game via regulation.
It's not about you, but the person you're going to hit.
Many of these safety regulations are equally to protect other people on the road as much as they are for your own safety. So that excuse doesn't really fly. But even still, the government has an obligation to enforce laws that even protect you from yourself.
Wow. And Subarus are some of the safest out there especially with the eyesight system.
italian here, imported also from germany 2 week ago, fantastic car. it migh go up in value also since the ban.
i guess they will send all the EU allotments to other countries..may be
Congrats! Especially getting one while ya can. I have to imagine they're going to hold value pretty well over there after the ban.
Europe soft AF ngl
Hopefully the next one won’t suck. I want one so bad. I couldn’t buy it new cause Italy was destined a very limited number of vehicles :(
The EU sucks! They’ve been slowly banning fun cars. Climate and safety excuses but you read the regs and they are so freaking arbitrary. Just so people knows, this matters for US customers. It’s unlikely we’ll see these cars manufactured for much longer. The closest welll get is some kind of 1.5 liter hybrid with tons of safety features that rides like a 1997 corolla.
looks beautiful! congrats 😎
Congrats man, hope you enjoy the car!
Congrats! Looks great! How do you like it so far? Best thing about it? Worst thing about it?
That ban is so freaking stupid. There is absolutely nothing about the GR86 that is more or less dangerous than anything on the road today.
Nice of getting one! Which trim did you get? :D
Well, i saw 40k euro in Czech Republic for a new car several months ago. You can get so many good vehicles for 40k.
I wonder what the ban is going to do to the second-hand market. I want the car pretty badly, but I just couldn't justify buying it new. I was hoping to get one in good condition with 100kms on it for ~€22k (well, probably for previous gen tho, these will take longer to come down in price). But now I'm kind of worried with lack of supply of new cars, the prices will start climbing now.
Just a question is this the GR sold by Autohaus Sedlmair? I think it was posted on mobile.de around 37.700 or 37.600.
It was a different dealer but also found it on [mobile.de](http://mobile.de) :)
Enjoy it
Congratulations 🎉
What's the ban? Sorry, I'm American... 🇺🇲
New EU vehicle requirements: * intelligent speed assistance * reversing detection with camera or sensors * attention warning in case of driver drowsiness or distraction * event data recorders as well * emergency stop signal Link: [https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip\_22\_4312](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_4312)
Thanks! Surely the manufacturers can add these mandatory things and route them to corresponding fuses in the fusebox, if you're drifting my catch.... Right?!
According to Toyota they would need a complete redesign of the current gen car so not possible for current gen.
I just shipped mine to Belgium because I am military… does anybody know if there are any ways to get exceptions to this?
I don't know your situation and what you mean by shipped (from outside EU, from inside EU, is it already there). But better be fast boiiii because as far as I'm aware the cutoff is 7th July for first EU registration. There are companies that might help you handle all the tech/document stuff if you're not able to do it yourself.
After a quick google search after another military comment: It seems that military registration is a separate thing and you register it with US military rather than EU countries so EU rules don't apply.
I appreciate the help
What other cars are going to be banned?
Even cars such as Renault Zoe or petrol Porsche Macan have died. Alpine A110 would die as well but there's a two-year an exemption for very low production cars so they're dead or redesigned to fit regulations after that as well.
I'm about to bring mine to Germany from the US, with the separate military registration though
From a quick google search military registration is a separate thing and you register it with US military rather than Germany so the German rules don't apply.
correct!
my dealer said that i got the last official gr86 for germany. only because someone canceled his order
Cool! When was that? :)
you vil own nothing und you vil be happy
Gotta love the government
I gotta say, I was a safer driver without all these "safety assist" bullshit things. I had groceries in the passenger seat of my brz and was super distracted from the non-stop "ding ding ding." Eventually had to put the seatbelt around my freaking ramen. The Lane Exiting warning, won't stop beeping is you don't have seatbelts on, yell at you if you're coming up on someone too fast. There is so much beeping and yelling at you from the car, I get distracted by that... (Keep in mind I just switched over from a 2016 Scion iM). Feels like they're restraining our freedom "for your safety." The beginning of every robot A.I. movie that goes wrong. Plus, we are making it so that people are more comfortable being on their phones while driving. I've seen it happen. They say, "oh the car will tell me." Crazy shit.
Don't know if you watch Clarkson's Farm but there's another great example in series 3 when Kaleb must wear a safety harness whilst in the cherry picker. When the picker gets lowered so Kaleb and get out, he forgets he is harnessed in, steps out, gets snapped back by the harness and wangs his head on the side of the cherry picker. Health and safety gone mad. Your examples make me think that people will get so used to warning alarms etc., that they'll stop looking for hazards themselves.
Ban on a 4 cylinder ?? EU not beating the allegations.
Wait, they will all get governors next!
Can’t believe the EU is so backwards on this. Maybe they should look more closely at the “whole of life” environmental impact of EVs. Not sure there’s much of a difference when EVERYTHING is taken into account (including such items as mining of rare earth metals, generation of electricity to recharge batteries, lifespan, disposal & recycling/ re-use, etc.
What are you even ranting about? It has nothing to do with it being a ICE car. It’s safety regulation compliance. It’s lacking the tech features needed
The EU is truly trying as hard as it can to destroy itself...... and it seems to be good at that.......
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GSR2 specifically targets first registration in EU (aka new vehicle). Do you have a source on things you claim? For example this says for all new vehicles: [https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip\_22\_4312](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_4312)