How does an entire country think,
“YAH!! 2 80 year olds is a fantastic idea to battle out running for our country! They are so in tune with everything going on!”
Also, why wouldn’t you want to fucking retire?!?! Who wants a stressful, unforgiving job in your 80’s with media and the general populous shitting on you every day?
Look at Obama, he’s set! Secret service guards, pension, all perks of being a former president, being paid out the ass (probably) to do speeches / meet & greets.
Idiots.
Well, the Republicans don't have anyone who could possibly replace Trump, so they're kind of stuck with him. The Democrats have plenty of viable options, unfortunately they're too lib to consider actually utilizing Bernie or anyone from the squad. Biden won't step aside because he legitimately thinks he is the only one who can do it.
I would say that at this point it's too late for the DNC to run anyone else but, for the sake of argument, if Biden got replaced as a candidate with, say AOC, I wonder if the sheer excitement of the truly left wing base would be enough to make up for lost time. Not like this would ever happen. It barely happened in my hypothetical.
Why? The libs have already demonstrated that they’ll take any warm body as long as it isn’t Trump. Joe wasn’t anyone’s first pick. A young progressive with name recognition like AOC could actually win. “Blue no matter who!” After all.
But the dems would never put her on the ticket.
Because it doesn’t matter about republicans it’s the people who are somehow undecided voters. Really this entire election is for those people In Pennsylvania and Georgia
I didn’t say anything about republicans. Look I’m not saying she’d for sure win but against Trump she’d probably have a better chance than geriatric Joe Biden. There’s been no opportunity for people in Pennsylvania or Georgia to vote for someone like her, so you cannot say with certainty that undecided’s wouldn’t turn out for her over Trump. But again, it’s moot. The Democrats will never run a progressive, not even AOC.
I think you’re living in a leftist bubble. AOC isn’t winning undecided voters. Also the republicans would destroy her with ads that work on undecided voters. Especially not someone who would be old enough by law to be president by like a month.
I don’t, actually. Not everyone in this sub is a zoomer or terminally online. At least half of my social circle are midwestern Christian centrists, and the rest are normie libs. Everyone under the age of 60 is pretty sick of geriatric politicians.
I’m not sure what sort of attack ads do you think will work against AOC that wouldn’t work just as well on literally any other even slightly progressive dem. But I feel like you’re arguing as if I’m genuinely advocating for them to pick her. I’m not. They won’t. But this idea that it’s totally impossible for someone like her to win is silly and pessimistic.
Idk why you're getting downvoted. It's true. I'm around a leftist wife all day, my comrades in party work, etc. and it makes it seem like there's more of a leftist base than there really is. I hate to say it but it's true. The dem establishment fucking hates the left. Bernie is barely left and they crucified him. That's why leftist organizing is so important
To be honest with you, the vast majority of people hate both of them and don't want a repeat of 2020. Trump just had enough plurality to crush everyone else in the Primaries by a lot, and instead of unifying against Trump, they one by one endorsed him. The RNC was reluctant to accept him as candidate because the higher ups see him as unstable and selfish, which he is. They didn't have a choice after the primaries though.
As for Biden, the incumbent typically runs for a second term in America. It's super rare to see anyone but the incumbent be the candidate for the incumbent's party. People have been calling for it to be a single-term presidency since 2021 though, many of us included, because we already had concerns about his age and mental acuity back then. His 2020 performance wasn't awful, but it was compared to when he was Vice President in the 2012 debate. He is not the same man and the DNC (or he himself) forced his candidacy upon us with no other options besides third parties like Marianne Williamson and Cenk Uyger (AKA Uncle Cenk).
At the end of the day, all of us don't care and are still voting Cenk 2024 baby.
If you'd like an outsiders (UK... Yes we have our own issues and feel your pain) perspective :
For gods sake make the man retire. He is knackered. He doesn't need to be up there when he is clearly in declining health. I don't personally believe he wanted to run again in the first place and this just confirms it. Even if he did want to run again, the process has been very clearly detrimental to him. He's burnt out which is no use to America.
The Democrats need to find a replacement ASAP. And sadly it can't be the personality void that is Harris. The centrists who might have been swayed over by a good debate will now be leaning right. The never-trumpers will now be Trumpers. And some demos that might have voted will be disillusioned and may not bother at all. Apathy is huge. Trump is gonna take this whole thing without even trying if the dems don't find someone to actually energise the base.
I mean, you clearly have an opinion based on what you're seeing, but other people might find it interesting to know how the rest of the world is seeing it. So shake your head all you want. No skin off my nose.
And yes we do have our issues. More and more lately. I'd happily hear your opinion because we British can be very jingoistic in politics. And our politicians/political manipulations are a nightmare because they're insidious. We don't do bombastic declarations the way you guys do. Our politics creep. It's easy to not see the woods for the trees. So yeah. I'm always curious as to how the world sees what's happening on our damp little rock.
I think the U.K. political situation is fucked, similar to the U.S, but feel it's far worse for the U.K., just that the nature of the disasters means the U.K.'s isn't quite as outwardly on display as the U.S. (besides the PM shuffle for a bit there, but I'm focusing on the ostensibly "left" parties)
Labour has completely abandoned any sense of being left wing, instead purging any and all Corbyn elements from the party, and even anti-Corbyn elements that weren't far enough to the right. Here in the U.S., I do have the vaguest of hope that a growing dissatisfaction may force hands at some point, even if so much fundamentally fucks us right now. Voices of dissent, even if often co-opted and kept away from leadership and policy, grows and is usually bregundingly kept around. Leadership here is getting to the point where it's quite literally decaying, and their refusal to step aside means they haven't prepared a new crop of leadership to follow as time sets in as its very clearly doing right now. While disastrous in the short term, maybe, if we can weather the storm, things can change for the better. I sometimes question just how fundamentally different dems are from repubs, but I can't imagine having the U.K. situation laying before me. Dems capitupate on a regular basis to Repubs, but current Labour openly wants to be Tories. I genuinely can't tell a difference between current Labour and the Tories. Labour's pitch lately seems to be that they'll be Tories but competent, and the purges shape the party exactly for that.
I guess, overall, I have the vaguest sense of hope for the U.S., even if it might be foolish. I don't see the U.K. improving, Corbyn getting screwed over has been far more disastrous for the U.K. than Sanders has been for the U.S.
I completely agree with you. We need wholesale change here. A complete purge of the current, for profit, government and it's lackeys.
Our system has always been a choice between the lesser of two evils with the illusion of another option. One set of Oxbridge twats or the other. And now our government is even more infested with money grubbing scumbags. Lobbying is taking hold. Sunak is just the most overtly unscrupulous and out of touch in recent memory but he's not the nearly the first.
What's more baffling is that there's this weird speculation in leftist circles that Starmer is going to pull a bait and switch and go hard left, completely forgetting that Starmer did those very purges you mentioned. This is not a man that gives a flying fuck about anyone but himself.
None of these people live in the same world as the people they govern. That goes for US or UK.
Chill out. We don't need to be isolationists to our overseas allies. People over there can be leftists too. I'm sure you're lashing out because of stress or something, because this is an unreasonable response to someone making a comment on reddit, a place where we go specifically to share opinions.
They are not your enemy.
So what happened were the optics bad did Biden shit the bed? Did trump look strong I missed it and it's hard to find coverage that isn't libbed up, it seems the debate sucked in general.
i'd just check out Hasan's video on youtube. Hes hams up his reaction a little, but Biden looks so expired I probably would react the same if I was on camera.
Idk what the day-after coverage has looked like, but even the CNN ultra-libs immediately post-debate were like “this is very very bad”.
When even David Axelrod is admitting things are dire you know it’s bad. Map Man John King basically opened the post-debate show saying that DNC operatives were all shitting themselves and thinking about alternatives
"I don't know what he just said and I don't think he does either."
Trump was Trump. Biden was more incomprehensible than he'd *ever* been. There was nigh constant slurred stuttering, and he kept changing thoughts mid sentence. I laughed far more than I'd expected to - I mean, both men are despicable and it's certainly tragic we've gotten to this point, but this debate was every bit as stupid as our leaders are evil. It's one for the history books, that's for sure.
Basically just Trump being a lying fascist, and Biden being a doddering old man for two hours. Apparently, the doddering old man lost due to everyone feeling bad for him even being there.
Dems: I can’t believe you’re gonna vote third party, I can’t believe you’re so selfish and egocentric that you’ll sacrifice political control and give it to the republicans
Also dems: yeah we’re going with Joe Biden for sure
And replace him with another liberal genocidal dipshit? The DNC is cooked as a whole.
Decades of denying real everyday issues Americans face and actively shutting down leftward progress has led to this moment.
Yes, and here is his choice:
Your legacy can either be that of a great patriot who salvaged Democracy not once, but twice by stepping aside
OR
Your legacy will be that of RGB, and the loss of a Republic will be laid at your feet. Our Democracy lost because of the ego/stubbornness of one man. That could be your legacy.
That's the choice someone needs to put to him. Today.
The main reason we need someone else to run for the Dems isn’t so we can get a more progressive candidate (cause let’s be realistic that’s not gonna happen). The reason is so we can get the big chunk of moderate voters in this country to vote for the lesser of two evils (Dems) by having a candidate that doesn’t sound like they’re on the verge of death. A good chunk of moderate voters have no idea about any policies and pretty much solely vote on which candidate sounds better when they speak because they’re idiots. But we need the idiots so we don’t get Trump again. I wish most people in this country were smart enough to not have an aneurism when they hear the word socialism but we’re not at that point yet and voting dem is sadly our best realistic option right now
He is so selfish
Bro debated more about golf and porn stars than he did about political issues
How does an entire country think, “YAH!! 2 80 year olds is a fantastic idea to battle out running for our country! They are so in tune with everything going on!” Also, why wouldn’t you want to fucking retire?!?! Who wants a stressful, unforgiving job in your 80’s with media and the general populous shitting on you every day? Look at Obama, he’s set! Secret service guards, pension, all perks of being a former president, being paid out the ass (probably) to do speeches / meet & greets. Idiots.
Well, the Republicans don't have anyone who could possibly replace Trump, so they're kind of stuck with him. The Democrats have plenty of viable options, unfortunately they're too lib to consider actually utilizing Bernie or anyone from the squad. Biden won't step aside because he legitimately thinks he is the only one who can do it. I would say that at this point it's too late for the DNC to run anyone else but, for the sake of argument, if Biden got replaced as a candidate with, say AOC, I wonder if the sheer excitement of the truly left wing base would be enough to make up for lost time. Not like this would ever happen. It barely happened in my hypothetical.
You truly misjudge the size of the true left wing base. AOC would lose in historic fashion against trump
Why? The libs have already demonstrated that they’ll take any warm body as long as it isn’t Trump. Joe wasn’t anyone’s first pick. A young progressive with name recognition like AOC could actually win. “Blue no matter who!” After all. But the dems would never put her on the ticket.
Because it doesn’t matter about republicans it’s the people who are somehow undecided voters. Really this entire election is for those people In Pennsylvania and Georgia
I didn’t say anything about republicans. Look I’m not saying she’d for sure win but against Trump she’d probably have a better chance than geriatric Joe Biden. There’s been no opportunity for people in Pennsylvania or Georgia to vote for someone like her, so you cannot say with certainty that undecided’s wouldn’t turn out for her over Trump. But again, it’s moot. The Democrats will never run a progressive, not even AOC.
I think you’re living in a leftist bubble. AOC isn’t winning undecided voters. Also the republicans would destroy her with ads that work on undecided voters. Especially not someone who would be old enough by law to be president by like a month.
I don’t, actually. Not everyone in this sub is a zoomer or terminally online. At least half of my social circle are midwestern Christian centrists, and the rest are normie libs. Everyone under the age of 60 is pretty sick of geriatric politicians. I’m not sure what sort of attack ads do you think will work against AOC that wouldn’t work just as well on literally any other even slightly progressive dem. But I feel like you’re arguing as if I’m genuinely advocating for them to pick her. I’m not. They won’t. But this idea that it’s totally impossible for someone like her to win is silly and pessimistic.
Idk why you're getting downvoted. It's true. I'm around a leftist wife all day, my comrades in party work, etc. and it makes it seem like there's more of a leftist base than there really is. I hate to say it but it's true. The dem establishment fucking hates the left. Bernie is barely left and they crucified him. That's why leftist organizing is so important
Yeah like I said to someone else the only people that matter to the establishment voter wise are the undecided voters in PA and GA
To be honest with you, the vast majority of people hate both of them and don't want a repeat of 2020. Trump just had enough plurality to crush everyone else in the Primaries by a lot, and instead of unifying against Trump, they one by one endorsed him. The RNC was reluctant to accept him as candidate because the higher ups see him as unstable and selfish, which he is. They didn't have a choice after the primaries though. As for Biden, the incumbent typically runs for a second term in America. It's super rare to see anyone but the incumbent be the candidate for the incumbent's party. People have been calling for it to be a single-term presidency since 2021 though, many of us included, because we already had concerns about his age and mental acuity back then. His 2020 performance wasn't awful, but it was compared to when he was Vice President in the 2012 debate. He is not the same man and the DNC (or he himself) forced his candidacy upon us with no other options besides third parties like Marianne Williamson and Cenk Uyger (AKA Uncle Cenk). At the end of the day, all of us don't care and are still voting Cenk 2024 baby.
If you'd like an outsiders (UK... Yes we have our own issues and feel your pain) perspective : For gods sake make the man retire. He is knackered. He doesn't need to be up there when he is clearly in declining health. I don't personally believe he wanted to run again in the first place and this just confirms it. Even if he did want to run again, the process has been very clearly detrimental to him. He's burnt out which is no use to America. The Democrats need to find a replacement ASAP. And sadly it can't be the personality void that is Harris. The centrists who might have been swayed over by a good debate will now be leaning right. The never-trumpers will now be Trumpers. And some demos that might have voted will be disillusioned and may not bother at all. Apathy is huge. Trump is gonna take this whole thing without even trying if the dems don't find someone to actually energise the base.
We don’t want one thanks
What, someone else's opinion?
Ignore them. You're welcome here. They're just being an asshole because this is stressful.
It's okay. I don't take it personally! It's not like I'm any less stressed about my own stupid ass country.
An outsider perspective. You think we don’t already know that? Smh. Go worry about your own problems. You guys have plenty.
Found the guy with an antisocial disorder but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised on Reddit
I mean, you clearly have an opinion based on what you're seeing, but other people might find it interesting to know how the rest of the world is seeing it. So shake your head all you want. No skin off my nose. And yes we do have our issues. More and more lately. I'd happily hear your opinion because we British can be very jingoistic in politics. And our politicians/political manipulations are a nightmare because they're insidious. We don't do bombastic declarations the way you guys do. Our politics creep. It's easy to not see the woods for the trees. So yeah. I'm always curious as to how the world sees what's happening on our damp little rock.
I think the U.K. political situation is fucked, similar to the U.S, but feel it's far worse for the U.K., just that the nature of the disasters means the U.K.'s isn't quite as outwardly on display as the U.S. (besides the PM shuffle for a bit there, but I'm focusing on the ostensibly "left" parties) Labour has completely abandoned any sense of being left wing, instead purging any and all Corbyn elements from the party, and even anti-Corbyn elements that weren't far enough to the right. Here in the U.S., I do have the vaguest of hope that a growing dissatisfaction may force hands at some point, even if so much fundamentally fucks us right now. Voices of dissent, even if often co-opted and kept away from leadership and policy, grows and is usually bregundingly kept around. Leadership here is getting to the point where it's quite literally decaying, and their refusal to step aside means they haven't prepared a new crop of leadership to follow as time sets in as its very clearly doing right now. While disastrous in the short term, maybe, if we can weather the storm, things can change for the better. I sometimes question just how fundamentally different dems are from repubs, but I can't imagine having the U.K. situation laying before me. Dems capitupate on a regular basis to Repubs, but current Labour openly wants to be Tories. I genuinely can't tell a difference between current Labour and the Tories. Labour's pitch lately seems to be that they'll be Tories but competent, and the purges shape the party exactly for that. I guess, overall, I have the vaguest sense of hope for the U.S., even if it might be foolish. I don't see the U.K. improving, Corbyn getting screwed over has been far more disastrous for the U.K. than Sanders has been for the U.S.
I completely agree with you. We need wholesale change here. A complete purge of the current, for profit, government and it's lackeys. Our system has always been a choice between the lesser of two evils with the illusion of another option. One set of Oxbridge twats or the other. And now our government is even more infested with money grubbing scumbags. Lobbying is taking hold. Sunak is just the most overtly unscrupulous and out of touch in recent memory but he's not the nearly the first. What's more baffling is that there's this weird speculation in leftist circles that Starmer is going to pull a bait and switch and go hard left, completely forgetting that Starmer did those very purges you mentioned. This is not a man that gives a flying fuck about anyone but himself. None of these people live in the same world as the people they govern. That goes for US or UK.
Chill out. We don't need to be isolationists to our overseas allies. People over there can be leftists too. I'm sure you're lashing out because of stress or something, because this is an unreasonable response to someone making a comment on reddit, a place where we go specifically to share opinions. They are not your enemy.
If he steps down and they replace him with Kamala trump wins in a Reagan style landslide
No way they do that. They know that.
Here's my hot take. The core dem establishment wants to lose to have 4 years of campaigning against trump
Gotta fill that war chest with SuperPac money. Siphon it away from all those desperate voters and corpos seeking handouts.
So what happened were the optics bad did Biden shit the bed? Did trump look strong I missed it and it's hard to find coverage that isn't libbed up, it seems the debate sucked in general.
It was bad. Really, really bad for Biden.
i'd just check out Hasan's video on youtube. Hes hams up his reaction a little, but Biden looks so expired I probably would react the same if I was on camera.
Idk what the day-after coverage has looked like, but even the CNN ultra-libs immediately post-debate were like “this is very very bad”. When even David Axelrod is admitting things are dire you know it’s bad. Map Man John King basically opened the post-debate show saying that DNC operatives were all shitting themselves and thinking about alternatives
I’d watch Jon Stewart’s video to see examples of Biden’s performance
"I don't know what he just said and I don't think he does either." Trump was Trump. Biden was more incomprehensible than he'd *ever* been. There was nigh constant slurred stuttering, and he kept changing thoughts mid sentence. I laughed far more than I'd expected to - I mean, both men are despicable and it's certainly tragic we've gotten to this point, but this debate was every bit as stupid as our leaders are evil. It's one for the history books, that's for sure.
Basically just Trump being a lying fascist, and Biden being a doddering old man for two hours. Apparently, the doddering old man lost due to everyone feeling bad for him even being there.
Dems: I can’t believe you’re gonna vote third party, I can’t believe you’re so selfish and egocentric that you’ll sacrifice political control and give it to the republicans Also dems: yeah we’re going with Joe Biden for sure
And replace him with another liberal genocidal dipshit? The DNC is cooked as a whole. Decades of denying real everyday issues Americans face and actively shutting down leftward progress has led to this moment.
It's too late for him to be replaced. "The avalanche has already started, it's too late for the pebbles to vote"... we all going for the ride.
Nah, the DNC can replace him at the convention with delegates. They are not obligated to pick him as the candidate for the general election.
We need Hunter Biden. He'll have all the energy in the world.
make him step down and he will break (his legs)
We all know who the obvious replacement should be Cenk 2024 🇺🇸 Cenk 2028 🇺🇸 Cenk 2032 🇺🇸 Let's fucking gooooo
4 terms please? Cenk 2036 🇺🇸
CENK FOR EMPEROR OF MANKIND PUT HIM IN THE CONTRAPTION 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Yes, and here is his choice: Your legacy can either be that of a great patriot who salvaged Democracy not once, but twice by stepping aside OR Your legacy will be that of RGB, and the loss of a Republic will be laid at your feet. Our Democracy lost because of the ego/stubbornness of one man. That could be your legacy. That's the choice someone needs to put to him. Today.
Nobody will win if Biden doesn't run except Trump
The obvious replacement is so, so much worse
He’s so fucking old. He just needs to retire and enjoy the rest of his life.
The main reason we need someone else to run for the Dems isn’t so we can get a more progressive candidate (cause let’s be realistic that’s not gonna happen). The reason is so we can get the big chunk of moderate voters in this country to vote for the lesser of two evils (Dems) by having a candidate that doesn’t sound like they’re on the verge of death. A good chunk of moderate voters have no idea about any policies and pretty much solely vote on which candidate sounds better when they speak because they’re idiots. But we need the idiots so we don’t get Trump again. I wish most people in this country were smart enough to not have an aneurism when they hear the word socialism but we’re not at that point yet and voting dem is sadly our best realistic option right now