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I don’t think so. Jaime definitely can get to a good place with his left hand (and he will, I believe that).
However, as Jaime himself says, he will never be as good as he was. His instincts, his decades of training, they don’t just transfer. I think he’ll end up being a good-great fighter because he can still read the fight well, but he won’t be elite to the same level.
I think he still beats Jon and Aemond, Daario and Daemon are more of a question though because not only are they great fighters but they *also* strike me as people that really know how to read an opponent.
Nah bro. The sort of expertise Jaime is said to have is not something that you simply get from training for a couple years. He was born with a sword, trained from an extremely young age constantly. Probably lived and breathed sword play. He was a natural, a virtuoso. By the same token, do you think if someone cut off, Rafa Nadal’s right hand, he’d be as good of a tennis player in a couple years? Yes just train with your left for a year or two and you’ll be as good as you used to be with your right. That’s simply not true. That’s not the way muscle memory or muscle development works in people. Athletes who play a particular sport from a young age tend to be over/heavily developed in the relevant muscle areas of their body for that sport. As their bodies go through puberty and adult development m, additional muscle mass and mechanical dexterity is obtained. That’s the sort of expertise and skill we’re talking about. Something that is acquired through a life of dedication and practice and drilling. Would Shohei Ohtani simply need to start pitching with his left hand and he’d be as good in a year or two? Not a chance. That’s not how any of this works.
Definitely Jamie with two hands. Man's gifted, trained by two of the most legendary Westerosi Knight of all time (Arthur Dayne and Barristan Selmy), veterans of many wars, etc. It took Brienne all she had to keep Jamie at bay even though Jamie was chained up, malnourished, and probably sick from his time as a prisoner. Jaime could probably 1v3 Aemon, Jon, and Daario and still won.
Aemond is only on here because he just simply **_looks_** like a badass.
Don't get me wrong, he has plenty potential and I like the character, but as for fighting goes, he is extremely unproven and unexperienced at this point in the show.
Solo? I don’t think so, but could def take two or maybe three at a time
Jaime could def beat Daemon and Jon but I think he’d probably lose if you added one of the other two
My god why do people think Jaimie is some middling fighter. His plight is when he lost his hand, he lost what made him transcendent, and he needed to become human. The chapter where Rob describes him on the battle field is incredible
It’s because the show didn’t really show how good he was. Ned for example seemed to be on the same level. The show left out the part where he cuts down half of robs guard
Book Jamie is an elite fighter. Well known as one of the best fighters in Westeros so i understand that pushback. If we are talking TV, it’s Daario or Daemon for me. Wish they would’ve given us a single scene of Jamie doing something like Daemon in the step stones.
The chapter where he approaches Rob to kill him(after being caught) might be the most badass thing I've ever read in asoiaf.
Aegon's burning of harenhall is also one of the other "HOLY FUCKING SHIT" moment but that Jaime moment surpasses anything else. That's just crazy shit man they nerfed Jaime horribly in the show
Does that matter though?
Like I'm not even in the top 10,000 of fighters in my country
I'm still sure I could beat the very best toddler in the world .
The power level between the two worlds is so different it doesn't matter if one of the very best in his world and the other isn't even close for his
I think the reasoning for this is GRRM described Aragorn as more of a king and leader with many responsibilities. While Jamie lives, breathes, and dreams war, fighting, training, and killing. His sole purpose and identity (prior to hand loss) was fighting where Aragorn’s was not.
Aragorn isn't superhuman at all, just long-lived. I'm having a difficult time recalling any Man Tolkien mentioned as being the greatest swordsman tbh, but there are Elves that slayed Balrogs, which is insane.
Not technically true, because Aragorn has the blood of Numenor in him, which basically were suped up humans. So Aragorn is *technically* superhuman in that he is somewhat stronger, faster, and quite a bit longer lived than regular humans--but not to the degree that we normally use the word "superhuman" today.
The Númenoreans are, technically, humans restored to their original vitality before Morgoth corrupted them in the Elder Days. So they are less superhuman and more Original Human.
My new favourite LOTR headcanon is that Numenoreans are actually just regular humans (comparable to irl people) and the humans in middle earth are just dogshit.
the blood of numenor does basically make him superhuman. He ran alongside an Elven prince and a dwarf, a race known for their stamnia for three days tracking the Uruk-Hai party across the gap of Rohan. That alone is a superhuman feat. Damn shame he shattered his foot right after, he was never the same lmao
Yeah, in the books, Jaime is like the Mike Tyson of swordfighting. He believes that even though there are bigger and stronger men like the Mountain and the Hound, his skill and speed would carry him to victory. Other people constantly make mention of how good he is and we are given several examples of his swordsmanship when he fights Robbs army in the Whisphering Woods, fights Brianne who beat Loras Tyrell (another well renowned knight) while handcuffed, starved, atrophied and almost wins. Jaime is the best for his time, I think with him crippled Brianne is now the best sword in Westoros.
Brienne as the best sword in westeros is an incorrect take in my estimation. There’s like 5 people off the top of my head I’d take over her in single combat.
Garlan Tyrell
Greatjon Umber
Barristan (though he’s in essos I suppose)
Both cleganes (though you can argue if they’re alive)
Bronn
You obviously can't explore every character in depth with the time constraints of a TV show, but imo Jamie is one of the most butchered characters in television. In the books he's easily one of the most fascinating characters in the series and he goes through such a journey, literally and character-wise, which causes him to reflect on who he is and why he does the things he does and it's so fascinating. He's never really *evil*, but he does so many horrible things. Such a fascinating pull between doing what you're taught is right and what feels right, and none of it's ever easy. He's born with so much potential and opportunity and drive and yet he's also nothing but a pawn in the game of others without the intelligence or experience to be a player himself until so much later in his life. You just don't get so much of his essence in the show, and forget about the seasons that go past the books, because then they just completely drop anything about Jamie that's interesting or noteworthy. Sorry, I could talk about Jamie Lannister all day, but I guess my *point* is that his swordskills are so important to who he is and the show really doesn't emphasize that he's anything other than pretty good, so it's easy to miss. That's part of what makes losing his hand such a tragedy: he's a unique talent, and it's a huge part of how he sees himself, and then he loses that in a moment.
It’s legit a fact though. It’s like if you said who is the better QB, Peyton Manning or Kurt Warner? Peyton isn’t the greatest and Kurt is pretty good, but Peyton is far superior to anyone not named Tom Brady, just like Jamie is superior to anyone not named Arthur Dayne or Barristan Selmy
All these people claiming Jamie wins easy. Meanwhile he was killed by a brick and Jon can just yell at an undead dragon controlled by a psychic connection with the Night King with no consequences.
I've never read the books, so I don't actually know how good Jaime is. I'm assuming the show didn't do him justice, because he's everyone's choice. Lol.
It’s one of the reasons why he is so pissed when on of the guards injured Ned Stark when they were fighting. Ned was one of the only known fighters in the world to have faced one of the best swords fighters in Westeros (Ser Author Dwayne).
Fighting and beating him (even when Ned was in his older years) would have solidified his reputation as being the best swordsman in all of Westeros.
That's fair - I'm subbed to a number of ASOIAF subs, so sometimes I forget that the mood / presentation of information is different, from one crowd to another, when I see a post.
The show def kinda undersold him, because you don't get pages and pages of various characters going off about how **GOAT** book-Jaime is before he gets the hand cut off, lmao.
This is what I've gathered. I can't wait to read the books, and get all the extra details. The show definitely didn't do him justice, from what I've heard.
Iirc, GRRM has confirmed that Arthur Dayne and Barriston Selmy (prime) were better, and Gerold Hightower was about the same. But I don't think he ever brought up Daemon.
I believe Jaime remarks about how good Arthur Dayne is and Jaime was around both Arthur and Barristan. As per GRRMs forum post with equal weaponry, it's 50/50 between Arthur and Barristan. If Arthur has Dawn then it's basically Arthurs win.
There’s evidence to say Daemon was the best fighter of his time. The only 1v1 evidence we have of Daemon (dragon fighting not included) is him being disarmed by Criston Cole in a melee and him beating the son of the Sealord of Braavos in a duel. That puts Criston ahead of him. I’d also make the argument that Cregan Stark, though he didn’t fight at all during the dance, might have been the best. When he was much older Aemon the Dragonknight said he was the best fighter he’s ever seen. And Aemon is constantly being brought up among the greatest fighters in the history of Westeros.
Show: Jaime > Jon > Daario >= Daemon > Aemond
Book: Jaime > Daario > Daemon > Jon >= Aemond
Not sure how to scale Aemond too much, but show Jon is a beast. Book Jon will end up a good Warrior because of how often he's gotten his ass beat lol
Yeah I think a lot of people who worked on the show stated how natural Kit was, even if they didn't plan to make Jon that strong in the show, they definitely saw him fight and were like "let's make this dude a war hero ASAP"
He truly could play a character with the title "best swordsman in the seven kingdoms" if they wanted to
General rule with spears is a weeks worth of training can beat an expert swordsman fairly regularly. Oberon was a master spearman who utilized toxins. He clears if we’re using real logic, but fantasy loves to make swords OP and underpower spears.
Unless it’s Barriston or Arthur Dayne the answer is always Jamie. Even with those two it’s not necessarily a loss just a real debate. Jamie clears them all one by one easily and all at once with some difficulty
Jaime Lannister, the guy is described as an monster with an sword, not only in duels but also in war. Besides that the best warrior in HOTD timeframe, sir criston cole, isn't even there, but even if he was in the dispute jaime probably would still win. Few people can best the lannister, probably only ser barristan selmy in his prime, ser arthur dayne or Robert Baratheon in his prime.
Jaime wins, but at a closer margin than people think, two Valyrian Steel swords in the conversation makes things tricky. Daario is held back by the reach disadvantage of the Arakh.
This one is not even close. It's gotta be Jaime. If you want to make this interesting, pit Jaime, Robert Baratheon, Barristan Selmy and Arthur Dayne against eachother. All at their peak.
11110% Jaime with both hands. Otherwise probably Daemon or show Jon, who was made out to be way more invincible than book Jon who was an average/good swordsman but not extraordinary.
Why is Aegon even in this? He knows nothing about anything. I mean if plot armor was a person, it'd be him.
But yeah, according to what I've read and what we have witnessed from the show(s), Jaime.
I struggled between Jon and Aemond because of my book (and possibly recency) bias. I can tell that show Jon is meant to be very good and I know that they leaned into the actor’s natural talent but I also know that book Jon is just above average. Jon looked a lot better than most in the earlier seasons because he had the benefit of a lord’s training yard when he was growing up whereas most of the Night’s Watch didn’t and the Wildlings also definitely did not. I wouldn’t be mad at swapping him and Aemond because I can see how Jon could be considered better based on experience alone.
Aemond was noted to be a skilled fighter by a young age, as well as he was trained by Criston, one of the GOAT.
Daemon was never acknowledged as an particular skilled swordsman.
I would switch the two.
Are we talking about in the books or show? I don’t recall this being said about Aemond in the books or even in the show. I’m not sure how you can say Daemon was not considered a skilled swordsman when he was gifted Dark Sister by Jaehaerys and knighted at only 16 because of his combat prowess. He was the commander of the City Watch and has real combat experience. We see him fight and he clearly has skill and expertise. We never see Aemond fight aside from with his cousins (who we saw didn’t receive the same level of training that he did due to Criston’s bias and who were also younger and smaller than him) and his training with Criston. Aemond is skilled but I wouldn’t put him above Daemon.
Sure. Daario Naharis was a ruthless warrior, don’t forget his methods were cruel. Daemon is an IDGAF kind of guy, but the best seasoned in Combat would be Jamie, even compared to Jon who could handle himself in combat. He could fight but not at the level or skill as Jamie in the books since he was the greatest according to GRRM.
Aemond is a tw*t and a bully, he doesn’t count.
Jamie fought first for Aeris II before killing him when he fought for Robert’s Rebellion, which gave him the reputation of King Slayer and that was with both good hands, then even after he lost a hand, he learned to master his Valyrian sword which he later gifted to Brienne of Tarth.
Had Jamie the ability to master a dragon, a fight between him and Daemon would’ve been fun.
Imma go with Dario just cause all the others are westerosi trained and he’s fought westerosi people in the pits but they’ve never fought someone like him
Dario is probably the guy that has the most experience here right? Jon in the show is shown like a big deal too. i think its Jamie > Dario > Daemon > Jon > Aemond
Daario Nahaaris imo. Survived many battles to the death in arenas for years. Jamie complained that Bronn wasn't fighting fair, attacking a man when his guard was down. Honorable fighting doesn't always wins.
Jamie smokes them all. Aemond might have been tutored by Criston, but book events really show he has no sense of strategy and he relied heavily upon Vhagar.
Daemon has the intelligence to probably get close, but Jamie really is too good.
Jaime cuts them to ribbons EASILY and it not even close.
Books - Jaime, Daario, Daemon, Aemond, Jon
Show - Jaime, Jon (season 8), Daario, Daemon, Aemond.
Everyone’s already saying Jamie and I agree, but I want to add another perspective on it. In Barristan’s POV when he fights against Khrazz he comments how even though the younger man is stranger and a capable fighter, he has no chance against a true member of the Kingsguard. This isn’t because of a lack of training or skill according to Barristan, but because Kingsguard members have the mental fortitude and know to always be calm and on guard. Jamie has that level of experience and mental aptitude and I think the other four do not. Dario and the HotD boys all have a lot of confidence, but that’s not the same. And Jon is literally killed because he’s not always on guard.
Putting Criston Cole in here would make it closer, but still Jaime.
I think only Barristan would match (or best) him from the people we've seen, and he's old.
I think the problem with Arthur Dayne is that while he's acclaimed in the setting by a lot of characters (impressively skilled characters too, including Jamie himself), we don't really see him in action so it's hard to judge for ourselves.
Both Dayne and Jamie had some very impressive showings in tourneys, with Jamie have won a melee when he was 13 years old.
We know Dayne had a fairly legendary fight with The Smiling Knight, which was quite a long duel. Jamie, at just 15, had earlier fought the Smiling Knight as well, and managed to hold him off for a short time. And it was after the battle with the Kingswood Bortherhood that Dayne knighted Jaime.
GRRM said Dayne and Selmy (in his prime) would be fairly evenly matched, with Dawn being the thing that'd tip it in Dayne's favor. Selmy has acknowledged Jaime is a great natural swordsman.
Jaime came close to killing Robb after cutting through Robb's personal guard. After their fight Brienne thinks on how how formidable a fighter Jaime is, even when weakened from imprisonment and shackled.
So while I think it's hard to say exactly great Arthur "greatest warrior of his generation" Dayne truly is, I think based on everything we've been told about him and Jaime, and what we've seen Jamie do, Jaime is one of the few guys around who'd be able to at least give Dayne a fight.
With his right hand, Jaime wins this easily.
Without his right hand, it's more difficult to say. You could debatably say any of the others could win, outside of maybe Daemon since I think he's clearly inferior to Aemond (who's on par with Criston apparently, who bested Daemon). Who knows, it's a tough one.
Why does Jon Snow get lumped in these things? I never got the impression that he was some elite, amazing swordsman. He’s trained and competent, but he basically got his ass kicked by Murphy from The Expanse until he fought dirty, and that guy was just some cunt from Flea Bottom.
Ironically I think the episode were Jon was just demolishing the other Night's Watch recruits made people think he was a great swordsman, even though in that episode they literally explain that he's only winning because he's got a lifetime of top-notch training and he's beating up on the equivalent of homeless teenagers.
With both hands, Jaime. No questions.
Jamie was argued to be close to Barriston Selmy at his prime.
Daemons showing we’re against those marauders in HOTD Ep 3. Since they were in peace times, he’s got no way of facing quality opponents throughout the years to get better.
Jon Snow has beaten random soldiers and untrained opponents like White Walkers. He’s literally the best guy out of countless untrained Nights Watchmen. In fact I’m willing to bet that until Ser Alliser dies, he was the second best guy given the experience difference.
I’m willing to but Dario N at the second best out of the list since he’s been fighting his whole life in the fighting pits against all type of fighters; big small, fast, slow, etc. He can be argued to have a similar skill set to Oberon Martel minus the poison.
Lastly, similarly to Daemon, lack of real battle and war would put Aemond even lower than Daemon.
1. Jaime L (Both Hands)
2. Dario Nahares
3. Daemon Targaryen
4. Jon Snow
5. Jaime L (One Hand)
6. Aemond Targaryen
I can’t tell the winner but I can tell you that daario nehaaris bites it first. His most impressive combat feat is killing two sleeping men. Damon and aemond are probably eliminated simultaneously in a grudge match. Jon and Jamie are hard to call, if Jamie has two hands he takes the fight but then again Jon snow has longclaw which is Valyrian steel. They both have incredibly thick plot armor so I’m gonna say they fight to a standstill before a deus ex machina interrupts the fight.
Jaime would defeat all of them, brienne was the only person who defeated him because he was chained and tired and she even admitted it that if he wasn't nothing would have stopped him
Young Jamie, cause George said so.
(he's top 3 of all time along with Dayne and Selmy if I remember correctly)
Jon could plot armor himself to outlive everyone but that doesn't mean he wins all battles. He would lose to Young Jamie in a fight to the death - and be resurrected later.
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Jamie. From before his hand gets cut. He might even beat all of them if it was his left hand that was cut and not the right.
If I’m honest, I think after he loses his hand, all of these people can take him with varying levels of difficulty.
Well yeah, he's right handed. But I guarantee if you gave him a year to train with his Left, he'd have a good chance.
I would disagree with you but in the books he’s training without his right hand and has been improving. I still think the others beat him.
I don’t think so. Jaime definitely can get to a good place with his left hand (and he will, I believe that). However, as Jaime himself says, he will never be as good as he was. His instincts, his decades of training, they don’t just transfer. I think he’ll end up being a good-great fighter because he can still read the fight well, but he won’t be elite to the same level. I think he still beats Jon and Aemond, Daario and Daemon are more of a question though because not only are they great fighters but they *also* strike me as people that really know how to read an opponent.
Nah. Hard disagree. He isn’t beating Jon with his two handed Valyrian sword, with one hand
He did train for over a year and was stood no chance against bronn
Nah bro. The sort of expertise Jaime is said to have is not something that you simply get from training for a couple years. He was born with a sword, trained from an extremely young age constantly. Probably lived and breathed sword play. He was a natural, a virtuoso. By the same token, do you think if someone cut off, Rafa Nadal’s right hand, he’d be as good of a tennis player in a couple years? Yes just train with your left for a year or two and you’ll be as good as you used to be with your right. That’s simply not true. That’s not the way muscle memory or muscle development works in people. Athletes who play a particular sport from a young age tend to be over/heavily developed in the relevant muscle areas of their body for that sport. As their bodies go through puberty and adult development m, additional muscle mass and mechanical dexterity is obtained. That’s the sort of expertise and skill we’re talking about. Something that is acquired through a life of dedication and practice and drilling. Would Shohei Ohtani simply need to start pitching with his left hand and he’d be as good in a year or two? Not a chance. That’s not how any of this works.
Definitely Jamie with two hands. Man's gifted, trained by two of the most legendary Westerosi Knight of all time (Arthur Dayne and Barristan Selmy), veterans of many wars, etc. It took Brienne all she had to keep Jamie at bay even though Jamie was chained up, malnourished, and probably sick from his time as a prisoner. Jaime could probably 1v3 Aemon, Jon, and Daario and still won.
why do yall continuously set up these people? It’s Jaime. Always was, always will be.
Aemond is only on here because he just simply **_looks_** like a badass. Don't get me wrong, he has plenty potential and I like the character, but as for fighting goes, he is extremely unproven and unexperienced at this point in the show.
He was holding his own against Cole in training who is good.
It was training though. No way was Criston actually trying to kill him.
Yeah it's like comparing LeBron to the class of Jimmy Butler, James Harden, and guys like that. A talented bunch but not in the GOAT category.
What if Oberyn was on there? That guy had crazy skills that seemed to shock even Jaime.
Could be very likely that Oberyn would die but no one would survive either, since he would poison his spear.
Jaime solos
peak Jaime could probably take on Daemon, Aemond and Jon at the same time
While taking a piss with his left hand
In his prime he would cut through them like carving a cake!!
Is it real or is it cake, Jaime!!
So leaving out Daario suggests you'd rank him second behind Jaime?
Daario could snatch victory from Jamie unless its an even fight if they all go at the same time
Solo? I don’t think so, but could def take two or maybe three at a time Jaime could def beat Daemon and Jon but I think he’d probably lose if you added one of the other two
Jaime, no question
My god why do people think Jaimie is some middling fighter. His plight is when he lost his hand, he lost what made him transcendent, and he needed to become human. The chapter where Rob describes him on the battle field is incredible
It’s because the show didn’t really show how good he was. Ned for example seemed to be on the same level. The show left out the part where he cuts down half of robs guard
Book Jamie is an elite fighter. Well known as one of the best fighters in Westeros so i understand that pushback. If we are talking TV, it’s Daario or Daemon for me. Wish they would’ve given us a single scene of Jamie doing something like Daemon in the step stones.
Yup, D&D were so focused on making us hate him that they didn't want to make him look badass
Because the show didn't exactly show him to be amazing, and in fact implied he wasn't.
The chapter where he approaches Rob to kill him(after being caught) might be the most badass thing I've ever read in asoiaf. Aegon's burning of harenhall is also one of the other "HOLY FUCKING SHIT" moment but that Jaime moment surpasses anything else. That's just crazy shit man they nerfed Jaime horribly in the show
I feel like this will be the general consensus. Lol.
Maybe because GRRM literally says he’s the best of his time and among the top three of all time. No one else even makes honorable mention.
According to GRRM he could beat literal superhuman Aragorn. He's OP
Aragorn doesn't make top 10 of all time in middle earth.
Does that matter though? Like I'm not even in the top 10,000 of fighters in my country I'm still sure I could beat the very best toddler in the world . The power level between the two worlds is so different it doesn't matter if one of the very best in his world and the other isn't even close for his
It doesn't matter. GRRM also said Boromir > Ned Stark, but I think he's playing favorites. Martin loves morally gray characters.
I think the reasoning for this is GRRM described Aragorn as more of a king and leader with many responsibilities. While Jamie lives, breathes, and dreams war, fighting, training, and killing. His sole purpose and identity (prior to hand loss) was fighting where Aragorn’s was not.
Aragorn isn't superhuman at all, just long-lived. I'm having a difficult time recalling any Man Tolkien mentioned as being the greatest swordsman tbh, but there are Elves that slayed Balrogs, which is insane.
Not technically true, because Aragorn has the blood of Numenor in him, which basically were suped up humans. So Aragorn is *technically* superhuman in that he is somewhat stronger, faster, and quite a bit longer lived than regular humans--but not to the degree that we normally use the word "superhuman" today.
The Númenoreans are, technically, humans restored to their original vitality before Morgoth corrupted them in the Elder Days. So they are less superhuman and more Original Human.
My new favourite LOTR headcanon is that Numenoreans are actually just regular humans (comparable to irl people) and the humans in middle earth are just dogshit.
Fingolfin did battle with a God.. he lost but he gravely wounded the god in the process, which was pretty badass
Fingolfin is an absolute chad
All hail Ecthelion, Slayer of Gothmog.
the blood of numenor does basically make him superhuman. He ran alongside an Elven prince and a dwarf, a race known for their stamnia for three days tracking the Uruk-Hai party across the gap of Rohan. That alone is a superhuman feat. Damn shame he shattered his foot right after, he was never the same lmao
The man kept up with an Elf running at full speed for days across rocky terrain. He absolutely has superhuman feats
I haven't read the books yet, and I don't watch interviews and all that. So I posted it with show knowledge only.
Yeah, in the books, Jaime is like the Mike Tyson of swordfighting. He believes that even though there are bigger and stronger men like the Mountain and the Hound, his skill and speed would carry him to victory. Other people constantly make mention of how good he is and we are given several examples of his swordsmanship when he fights Robbs army in the Whisphering Woods, fights Brianne who beat Loras Tyrell (another well renowned knight) while handcuffed, starved, atrophied and almost wins. Jaime is the best for his time, I think with him crippled Brianne is now the best sword in Westoros.
I can't wait to read the books, and get all the details and explanations of the characters. Thank you for the knowledge.!
Brienne as the best sword in westeros is an incorrect take in my estimation. There’s like 5 people off the top of my head I’d take over her in single combat. Garlan Tyrell Greatjon Umber Barristan (though he’s in essos I suppose) Both cleganes (though you can argue if they’re alive) Bronn
You obviously can't explore every character in depth with the time constraints of a TV show, but imo Jamie is one of the most butchered characters in television. In the books he's easily one of the most fascinating characters in the series and he goes through such a journey, literally and character-wise, which causes him to reflect on who he is and why he does the things he does and it's so fascinating. He's never really *evil*, but he does so many horrible things. Such a fascinating pull between doing what you're taught is right and what feels right, and none of it's ever easy. He's born with so much potential and opportunity and drive and yet he's also nothing but a pawn in the game of others without the intelligence or experience to be a player himself until so much later in his life. You just don't get so much of his essence in the show, and forget about the seasons that go past the books, because then they just completely drop anything about Jamie that's interesting or noteworthy. Sorry, I could talk about Jamie Lannister all day, but I guess my *point* is that his swordskills are so important to who he is and the show really doesn't emphasize that he's anything other than pretty good, so it's easy to miss. That's part of what makes losing his hand such a tragedy: he's a unique talent, and it's a huge part of how he sees himself, and then he loses that in a moment.
It’s legit a fact though. It’s like if you said who is the better QB, Peyton Manning or Kurt Warner? Peyton isn’t the greatest and Kurt is pretty good, but Peyton is far superior to anyone not named Tom Brady, just like Jamie is superior to anyone not named Arthur Dayne or Barristan Selmy
I don't know anything about the football, I'm sorry. Lol. You have my upvote, anyways, because I like your enthusiasm.
Thanks homie, Valar Morghulis
Valar Dohaeris, my friend.
Jon has the best plot armor, so he wins.
Jon being protected by plot armor doesn't mean he'd win a fight. Jamie would defeat him in battle but Jon would escape or get killed and resurrected
Plot armour is the thickest. 😂😂
But Jon did die tbf.
Mah kwen
Daemon also has crazy armour. Rolled my eyes when everyone missed their arrows at him. So stupid
All these people claiming Jamie wins easy. Meanwhile he was killed by a brick and Jon can just yell at an undead dragon controlled by a psychic connection with the Night King with no consequences.
Plot armour is TIGHT!
Jaime and it's not close. The only two people ahead of him are Arthur Dayne and Barristan Selmy.
And he basically learned from both of them.
With Both Hands
Jaime and it is not even close
I've never read the books, so I don't actually know how good Jaime is. I'm assuming the show didn't do him justice, because he's everyone's choice. Lol.
Jaime is a once in a generation warrior, he is a living legend
I knew he was good. I've heard as much, but didn't know he would be considered legendary. That's really interesting to know, though.
It’s one of the reasons why he is so pissed when on of the guards injured Ned Stark when they were fighting. Ned was one of the only known fighters in the world to have faced one of the best swords fighters in Westeros (Ser Author Dwayne). Fighting and beating him (even when Ned was in his older years) would have solidified his reputation as being the best swordsman in all of Westeros.
> Ser Author Dwayne I know that's just autocorrect playing tricks, but this is one of the funniest things I've read lately
Jamie in the books before he cut his hand off is akin to Kobe in his prime.
Makes me wonder what Jaime could have been if the Mad King didn't hate Tywin and put his son in the Kingsguard
Lord of Casterly Rock, married to Lysa Tully. Fucking his sister while Lysa fucks Littlefinger.
Jamie is pretty much a legend in his own time. In terms of skill it comes down to Jamie, Daario, and Daemon. I still think Jamie takes it 8/10
Sometimes I **literally** can't tell if these "who would win" posts are just memes, maybe, when they still include Jaime.
I cannot speak for everyone, but I posted in genuine curiosity. Lol. I'm not a book reader yet, and all of them were amazing fighters in the shows.
That's fair - I'm subbed to a number of ASOIAF subs, so sometimes I forget that the mood / presentation of information is different, from one crowd to another, when I see a post. The show def kinda undersold him, because you don't get pages and pages of various characters going off about how **GOAT** book-Jaime is before he gets the hand cut off, lmao.
Can you imagine if they had the scene when Rob ambushed him, and he was still cutting down people left and right and being described as unstoppable
This is what I've gathered. I can't wait to read the books, and get all the extra details. The show definitely didn't do him justice, from what I've heard.
Jamie fookin Lannister 🗿🗿
Jaime is quite possibly the single greatest swordsman there ever was in asoiaf. He easily clears them all.
Iirc, GRRM has confirmed that Arthur Dayne and Barriston Selmy (prime) were better, and Gerold Hightower was about the same. But I don't think he ever brought up Daemon.
GRRM says it's impossible to actually rank them because of all the factors you need to consider. He does say he is definitely top 3 all time though.
[удалено]
I believe Jaime remarks about how good Arthur Dayne is and Jaime was around both Arthur and Barristan. As per GRRMs forum post with equal weaponry, it's 50/50 between Arthur and Barristan. If Arthur has Dawn then it's basically Arthurs win.
Years later and I still can’t get over how dope it would be to be called the Sword of the Morning and wield a sword called Dawn.
One that’s forged from the heart of a fucking *meteorite*. It’s basically Westerosi vibranium.
Nah man, it’d be *way* cooler to just have two long swords that you can obviously barely swing.
one of the biggest Ls we got from the show
There’s evidence to say Daemon was the best fighter of his time. The only 1v1 evidence we have of Daemon (dragon fighting not included) is him being disarmed by Criston Cole in a melee and him beating the son of the Sealord of Braavos in a duel. That puts Criston ahead of him. I’d also make the argument that Cregan Stark, though he didn’t fight at all during the dance, might have been the best. When he was much older Aemon the Dragonknight said he was the best fighter he’s ever seen. And Aemon is constantly being brought up among the greatest fighters in the history of Westeros.
Jaime even now, he could cut through the four of them like carving a cake!
More interesting Battle would be between Jamie, Barristan Selmy, Arthur Dayne, Robert Baratheon and maybe Oberryn (all in Prime)
Yeah I agree. Jaime
Jaime and it’s not even close
Show: Jaime > Jon > Daario >= Daemon > Aemond Book: Jaime > Daario > Daemon > Jon >= Aemond Not sure how to scale Aemond too much, but show Jon is a beast. Book Jon will end up a good Warrior because of how often he's gotten his ass beat lol
Kit is so good at sword fighting. It’s one of the reasons I was mad he didn’t fight the Night King.
Yeah I think a lot of people who worked on the show stated how natural Kit was, even if they didn't plan to make Jon that strong in the show, they definitely saw him fight and were like "let's make this dude a war hero ASAP" He truly could play a character with the title "best swordsman in the seven kingdoms" if they wanted to
Why do so many of these not have Prince Oberon? He effectively killed the mountain.
Spear too OP.
General rule with spears is a weeks worth of training can beat an expert swordsman fairly regularly. Oberon was a master spearman who utilized toxins. He clears if we’re using real logic, but fantasy loves to make swords OP and underpower spears.
Karl "The fooking legend" Tanner would annihilate all these cocksuckers.
Jamie
Jaime, 4v1
I definitely say Jaime. I think Daario would be a pretty close second, though.
Unless it’s Barriston or Arthur Dayne the answer is always Jamie. Even with those two it’s not necessarily a loss just a real debate. Jamie clears them all one by one easily and all at once with some difficulty
Jaime Lannister, the guy is described as an monster with an sword, not only in duels but also in war. Besides that the best warrior in HOTD timeframe, sir criston cole, isn't even there, but even if he was in the dispute jaime probably would still win. Few people can best the lannister, probably only ser barristan selmy in his prime, ser arthur dayne or Robert Baratheon in his prime.
Jon his plot armor will protect him
Jaime wins, but at a closer margin than people think, two Valyrian Steel swords in the conversation makes things tricky. Daario is held back by the reach disadvantage of the Arakh.
This one is not even close. It's gotta be Jaime. If you want to make this interesting, pit Jaime, Robert Baratheon, Barristan Selmy and Arthur Dayne against eachother. All at their peak.
Dario he’s had the most experience but it would be close
Jaime was no joke before he lost his hand. Buttttttt I could see Daario getting lucky by not playing by the rules.
11110% Jaime with both hands. Otherwise probably Daemon or show Jon, who was made out to be way more invincible than book Jon who was an average/good swordsman but not extraordinary.
Why is Aegon even in this? He knows nothing about anything. I mean if plot armor was a person, it'd be him. But yeah, according to what I've read and what we have witnessed from the show(s), Jaime.
Old nan
Respectable choice.
Jaime Daario Daemon Aemond Jon
Idk man the way they hyped up jon's swordfighting, he might have the edge on aemond. Otherwise this is probably the most accurate list
I struggled between Jon and Aemond because of my book (and possibly recency) bias. I can tell that show Jon is meant to be very good and I know that they leaned into the actor’s natural talent but I also know that book Jon is just above average. Jon looked a lot better than most in the earlier seasons because he had the benefit of a lord’s training yard when he was growing up whereas most of the Night’s Watch didn’t and the Wildlings also definitely did not. I wouldn’t be mad at swapping him and Aemond because I can see how Jon could be considered better based on experience alone.
Aemond was noted to be a skilled fighter by a young age, as well as he was trained by Criston, one of the GOAT. Daemon was never acknowledged as an particular skilled swordsman. I would switch the two.
Are we talking about in the books or show? I don’t recall this being said about Aemond in the books or even in the show. I’m not sure how you can say Daemon was not considered a skilled swordsman when he was gifted Dark Sister by Jaehaerys and knighted at only 16 because of his combat prowess. He was the commander of the City Watch and has real combat experience. We see him fight and he clearly has skill and expertise. We never see Aemond fight aside from with his cousins (who we saw didn’t receive the same level of training that he did due to Criston’s bias and who were also younger and smaller than him) and his training with Criston. Aemond is skilled but I wouldn’t put him above Daemon.
Jaime wins 9/10 times. Only one that could beat him is daemon because he's the 2nd best and he has valyrian steel to make up for the skill gap
Sure. Daario Naharis was a ruthless warrior, don’t forget his methods were cruel. Daemon is an IDGAF kind of guy, but the best seasoned in Combat would be Jamie, even compared to Jon who could handle himself in combat. He could fight but not at the level or skill as Jamie in the books since he was the greatest according to GRRM. Aemond is a tw*t and a bully, he doesn’t count. Jamie fought first for Aeris II before killing him when he fought for Robert’s Rebellion, which gave him the reputation of King Slayer and that was with both good hands, then even after he lost a hand, he learned to master his Valyrian sword which he later gifted to Brienne of Tarth. Had Jamie the ability to master a dragon, a fight between him and Daemon would’ve been fun.
Jaime fucking Lannister
Jamie fookin Lannister
Arya’s “dance” instructor
Can we stop including Jamie in these to make it somewhat fair for the inferior swordsmen
Jamie. If he does not have his right hand than Dario. I like Dario, I am roothing for him
Imma go with Dario just cause all the others are westerosi trained and he’s fought westerosi people in the pits but they’ve never fought someone like him
Dario is probably the guy that has the most experience here right? Jon in the show is shown like a big deal too. i think its Jamie > Dario > Daemon > Jon > Aemond
If Daemon’s wielding Dark Sister, then give Jaime Oathkeeper or Widows Wail
Daario Nahaaris imo. Survived many battles to the death in arenas for years. Jamie complained that Bronn wasn't fighting fair, attacking a man when his guard was down. Honorable fighting doesn't always wins.
Jamie smokes them all. Aemond might have been tutored by Criston, but book events really show he has no sense of strategy and he relied heavily upon Vhagar. Daemon has the intelligence to probably get close, but Jamie really is too good.
Book cannon clearly Jaime, show cannon honestly you could probably say anyone, doesn't make much sense to argue about it in that case.
Jaime cuts them to ribbons EASILY and it not even close. Books - Jaime, Daario, Daemon, Aemond, Jon Show - Jaime, Jon (season 8), Daario, Daemon, Aemond.
Jamie, Daario, Daemon, Jon, Aemond In that order
Jaime>>>>>Daemon>Daario>Jon>Aemond
Does Jamie have his sword hand? If so then Jamie. Quiet easily at that.
Jamie would whoop their asses, even Daemon wouldn’t be able to take the heat
Jamie with two hands Not close
With both hands, Jamie, no contest
Hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby
Everyone’s already saying Jamie and I agree, but I want to add another perspective on it. In Barristan’s POV when he fights against Khrazz he comments how even though the younger man is stranger and a capable fighter, he has no chance against a true member of the Kingsguard. This isn’t because of a lack of training or skill according to Barristan, but because Kingsguard members have the mental fortitude and know to always be calm and on guard. Jamie has that level of experience and mental aptitude and I think the other four do not. Dario and the HotD boys all have a lot of confidence, but that’s not the same. And Jon is literally killed because he’s not always on guard.
Putting Criston Cole in here would make it closer, but still Jaime. I think only Barristan would match (or best) him from the people we've seen, and he's old.
First dead to last alive: Dario, Aemond, Jon Snow, Daemon, Jaime is winner. Even with 1 hand.
How would Jamie compare to Sir Arthur Dayne ? Would it be a close fight according to the books ?
I think the problem with Arthur Dayne is that while he's acclaimed in the setting by a lot of characters (impressively skilled characters too, including Jamie himself), we don't really see him in action so it's hard to judge for ourselves. Both Dayne and Jamie had some very impressive showings in tourneys, with Jamie have won a melee when he was 13 years old. We know Dayne had a fairly legendary fight with The Smiling Knight, which was quite a long duel. Jamie, at just 15, had earlier fought the Smiling Knight as well, and managed to hold him off for a short time. And it was after the battle with the Kingswood Bortherhood that Dayne knighted Jaime. GRRM said Dayne and Selmy (in his prime) would be fairly evenly matched, with Dawn being the thing that'd tip it in Dayne's favor. Selmy has acknowledged Jaime is a great natural swordsman. Jaime came close to killing Robb after cutting through Robb's personal guard. After their fight Brienne thinks on how how formidable a fighter Jaime is, even when weakened from imprisonment and shackled. So while I think it's hard to say exactly great Arthur "greatest warrior of his generation" Dayne truly is, I think based on everything we've been told about him and Jaime, and what we've seen Jamie do, Jaime is one of the few guys around who'd be able to at least give Dayne a fight.
With his right hand, Jaime wins this easily. Without his right hand, it's more difficult to say. You could debatably say any of the others could win, outside of maybe Daemon since I think he's clearly inferior to Aemond (who's on par with Criston apparently, who bested Daemon). Who knows, it's a tough one.
If we’re talking about pre Golden Hand Jaime then the only one here that even gives him a challenge 1v1 is *maybe* Daemon.
At these stages? Jaime, daemon, daario, Jon, aemond (these 2 can be switched around) in the books at this stage; jaime, daemon, aemond, daario and job
Original hands?
Chuck Norris. Obviously
Why does Jon Snow get lumped in these things? I never got the impression that he was some elite, amazing swordsman. He’s trained and competent, but he basically got his ass kicked by Murphy from The Expanse until he fought dirty, and that guy was just some cunt from Flea Bottom.
Ironically I think the episode were Jon was just demolishing the other Night's Watch recruits made people think he was a great swordsman, even though in that episode they literally explain that he's only winning because he's got a lifetime of top-notch training and he's beating up on the equivalent of homeless teenagers.
With both hands, Jaime. No questions. Jamie was argued to be close to Barriston Selmy at his prime. Daemons showing we’re against those marauders in HOTD Ep 3. Since they were in peace times, he’s got no way of facing quality opponents throughout the years to get better. Jon Snow has beaten random soldiers and untrained opponents like White Walkers. He’s literally the best guy out of countless untrained Nights Watchmen. In fact I’m willing to bet that until Ser Alliser dies, he was the second best guy given the experience difference. I’m willing to but Dario N at the second best out of the list since he’s been fighting his whole life in the fighting pits against all type of fighters; big small, fast, slow, etc. He can be argued to have a similar skill set to Oberon Martel minus the poison. Lastly, similarly to Daemon, lack of real battle and war would put Aemond even lower than Daemon. 1. Jaime L (Both Hands) 2. Dario Nahares 3. Daemon Targaryen 4. Jon Snow 5. Jaime L (One Hand) 6. Aemond Targaryen
Daario has the most hand to hand combat
The King-slayer
Jaime sweep
Daario. Most seasoned and versatile fighter.
Jaime could beat all four of them with one hand while pissing with his left.
Both hands? Jamie fookin Lannister. And it ain’t particularly close
I can’t tell the winner but I can tell you that daario nehaaris bites it first. His most impressive combat feat is killing two sleeping men. Damon and aemond are probably eliminated simultaneously in a grudge match. Jon and Jamie are hard to call, if Jamie has two hands he takes the fight but then again Jon snow has longclaw which is Valyrian steel. They both have incredibly thick plot armor so I’m gonna say they fight to a standstill before a deus ex machina interrupts the fight.
Gah. Posts like this make me *almost* want to rewatch the show
Daemon and DarkSister ain’t losing to nobody
Damon!
My heart says Jon but my brain says Prime Jamie. Daemon against either would be amazing to watch though.
Jaime or Daemon. Daemon could possibly beat Jaime but Jaime would most likely be at the top.
It’s a tie between Daemon and Jaime.
Hmm ik everyone says Jaime, I too say Jaime, but I have a feeling I want to put my money on daemon targaryen fsr...... Probably the matt smith effect
Euron cause he killed Jamie fucking Lannister
Jaime>daemon>jon>daario>aemond
Dario.
Jaime fookin Lannister
Why is everyone sucking Jamie’s dick???
With both hands, Jaime mops the floor. Second place goes to Daemon
Aemond isn’t even close to the rest of these lol. Shoulda put Cole.
Diario, he's smart and quick, Jaime can't compete with one hand.
I'm surprised more people haven't said Daario. Just because he's not one to play by the rules.
> he's not one to play by the rules. Daemon is?
What I would give to see a healthy Jaime vs Daemon 😍
In order: Jamie, before his hand got cut off Daemon Aemond Daario Jon Jamie after his hand got cut off
Jon Snow via plot armor Jamie would win straight up but Jon Snow would win via left field
I so want it to be the Rogue Prince, but nah it’s Jamie…
Thinking of the second place is far more interesting.
Jaime would defeat all of them, brienne was the only person who defeated him because he was chained and tired and she even admitted it that if he wasn't nothing would have stopped him
Jamie (with both hands)
Young Jamie, cause George said so. (he's top 3 of all time along with Dayne and Selmy if I remember correctly) Jon could plot armor himself to outlive everyone but that doesn't mean he wins all battles. He would lose to Young Jamie in a fight to the death - and be resurrected later.
Jaime
Book Jaime is the man. And yes Jaime
Young jamie
Jon Snow be like: https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/blud-thinks-hes-on-the-team-who-invited-my-man-blud
I think peak Jaimie might take it.
Jaime Lannister with both hands
Deez nuts
Jamie