Locking Romulus into this Reverse flash esque "it was me Barry" with Wolverine retroactively took away a lot of the agency from the characters and made him a very one note villain.
I also kinda like Sabertooth just hating Logan because he hates him rather than this master plan from Romulus to manipulate him for centuries.
These retroactive reveals are always cool in the moment but become stale really quick. Like making Tony Stark the result of an alien bioengineering experiment instead of just a smart human.
A bit here and there is par for the course but you need heroes who are the way they are because of choices they made or just happenstance instead of 'destiny' or 'grand designs' imo.
I thought the double reveal was that it was Tony’s brother Arno who was the bioengineered super baby and Tony was the adopted son of that musician/shield agent.
He was introduced during the God armor mumbo jumbo... manhunter ripoff was fooled into believing Tony was Howard Stark's actual kid, next arc Arno is never heard from again. Idk if anyone watches "Whose line" but... CRAP CRAP CRAP!
I think making tony an alien baby was awful, so undoing that was great, but hated his new origin too. I cant particularly remember all the specifics of why, but i imagine it was largely just because i was thoroughly done with bendis by that point
Nowhere. He doesn’t have claws with was part of the “reveal.” As much as he touts himself to be superior or “the next step” Logan realized he was just another pretender/wannabe.
Never liked it when it was revealed that Peter was involved in the "Web of Destiny". I know the "he was always meant to be nothing special" criticism has become so common it almost feels redundant but Spider-man really was meant to be a guy that you felt was an ordinary person given powers.
The spider biting Peter's hand was always written as and always felt like a complete accident.
>Like making Tony Stark the result of an alien bioengineering experiment instead of just a smart human.
It was later reveal Tony is just a smart Human. It was his secret brother the one that was Bioengineered.
runner up is Tony's parent's weren't Howard and Maria... (SHIELD and a HYDRA agent if I recall) please correct me if I am wrong. I mentally block it out 99% of the time.
> These retroactive reveals are always cool in the moment but become stale really quick. Like making Tony Stark the result of an alien bioengineering experiment instead of just a smart human.
Are they cool in the moment? To me it usually just feels like a desperate attempt by a writer to add to the legacy of a character. The good way is to write a memorable story, the bad way is to retroactively change something that will effect the character in a major way.
Honestly, Onslaught and the lore behind it had me very interested. But I haven’t read those comics. I guess execution matters a lot more than the ideas.
I don’t know enough about what the fanbase hates to answer beyond that though.
I think the Onslaught is hated because he is basically some diabolus ex machina for the sake of an attempt reboot of marvel comics.
That been said , I loved how Onslaught was used in Krakoa Era.
Yeah if Onslaught's OG crossover didn't end with Heroes Reborn, it'd probably be more fondly looked upon because a lot of really cool shit happened during the run. I will say though, at the time, Franklin's last ditch effort to save his family (thus creating the pocket universe) decked me right in the feels.
Onslaught is hated because of everything you mentioned but he’s mostly hated because Onslaught was one of the biggest factors in marvels bankruptcy in 96. Onslaught>Heroes Reborn is what drove many readers away from comics in the mid 90’s.
So weird, I guess maybe because I was a kid, but I loved Onslaught and Heroes Reborn. I guess it was really the first big epic comic event that happened for me at the height of collecting.
Same. I really do get the distaste for Heroes Reborn, but at that age, Onslaught was about the most epic shit I had ever read. I collected all the the TPBs and even have some graded. \*shrug\*
As someone who collected in that era, Onslaught was more of the final nail. Numerous crossovers and meaningless events as well as a gazillion "collectible" gimmick covers were already sending people away in droves.
I too collected then, the nail in the coffin for me was (as you said) all the stupid gimmick covers, Ben Reilly, The feral dog wolverine, and then onslaught>heroes reborn.
Can I ask. I heard a lot people talking about Onslaught being used during the Krakoa era and it being really cool and impactful, but when I read through the issues involved I felt like it came very abruptly and was quickly done away with. Is there something I'm missing?
> That been said , I loved how Onslaught was used in Krakoa Era.
Wasn't it relegated to like 2 issues? Seems kinda brief for what could have been a major threat and plot-line.
He personally showed for 2 issues , but his presence was showcased in Nichtcrawler/Legion Storyline.
Onslaught was basically Krakoa’s Satan. His influence was to make the krakoan been suggestive to their impulses.
Because Nightcrawler Storyline was about creating a Mutant Religion , it would logically be about him making moral principles, while Onslaught was forcing the others to be Morally Bankrupt in front of Nightcrawler.
Basically, Nightcrawler was Faust and Onslaught was Mephistopheles
I was a teenager when it came out and thought the idea of Prof. Xavier losing his mind under the pressure of battling his inner demons/fusion with Magneto's darker nature and the X-men having to grapple with the fact that they may have to take their mentor out was so cool. I guess I was in the minority.
No you're right. It is a cool idea and I look forward to the possibility of it happening in X'97 but the comics resolution for it and being so close to AoA was too convoluted.
There are some good moments in the 90s Onslaught event, but it overall leaves a bad taste in my mouth because of how quickly and awkwardly the current Fantastic Four plots got wrapped up and things turned back to normal so that it could happen. Especially annoyed at Franklin Richards getting abruptly de-aged back to being a little kid.
>I guess execution matters a lot more than the ideas.
This was the biggest problem, I think.
Marvel had a lot of staff changeover immediately after the Age of Apocalypse event. AoA had been an excellent event, but largely because of the quality of people they had working on it. Fabian Nicieza had been on a roll writing X-Men and X-Force - both titles were really great; Matt Ryan was doing amazing ink work on Andy Kubert's pencils; Tony Daniel was storming the art on X-Force; Larry Hama and Adam Kubert were in the middle of their legendary run on Wolverine; Chris Bachalo was doing career-best work on Generation X; Warren Ellis was at the height of his fame and writing Excalibur with some spectacular art by Ken Lashley.
If I remember correctly, by the time Onslaught started, they'd sacked Fabian Nicieza, Tony Daniel left Marvel, Matt Ryan left to work as a penciller and whoever replaced him started trying to ink Andy Kubert in manga-style which looked bad; Chris Bachalo went back to DC; Mark Waid started writing X-Men and hid style came across as really boring; Jeph Loeb started writing X-Force with predictably bad results; Excalibur was still struggling without Alan Davis and they couldn't keep a consistent art team for more than a couple of issues. Lashley moved on to different Marvel titles, I think. X-Factor was struggling without Peter David and had become just another generic X-Men book with endless tragedy and none of the comedy that made it a hit.
Basically, Onslaught arrived at the start of Marvel's decline as a company and a really dark time for the X-Men line. They were making bad editorial decisions, bad staffing decisions and Image and DC were able to poach all their best creators.
I also think some of these characters from the late 80’s through the 90’s suffer from the art of the time.
Ex machina + overpowered + 90’s art = cringe
His personality was insanely interesting compared to almost every other iteration on TV and movies I've seen.
Classy but can't get normal people reference but also not an asshole was endearing. Also helps his card sets are amazing too.
Absolutely loved those Rise of the Midnight Sons years. Morbius and Nightstalkers were great. 2!! Ghost Rider books.
Does Vengeance even exist as a character any longer?
I hate that he wasn't ugly most of the time. Like, Morbius looking like a rotting corpse is part of the fun! And is a definite part of his "curse." He can't even pretend and he actually looks more monstrous than most real vampires.
I think most people hate Namor but in, like, a good way. He's very fun to hate. I've even made memes about how much I love seeing his ass getting rocked, that's how much I hate that guy.
I still quite like seeing him in any book tho.
Nate Grey was awesome. I loved his character design, it was sort of a full potential cable. His powers were interesting with the way he could bring the astral into the material plane and it was nice to have an Omega level in the mix that wasn’t Frost, Jean or Charles.
He also came with one of the most epic origin stories I’ve ever seen. One of the only survivors of AoA.
It’s shame writers didn’t know what to do with him. I really liked his earlier stories with Sinister and how he factored into the Onslaught event.
It’s cool you liked the Shaman angle, it didn’t seem quite right for me personally. The Nate I loved was the fish out of water powerhouse.
When he arrived in the main verse he had no idea who was good or bad and drifted around saving people like the littlest hobo. I loved when he looked into Xavier’s head and immediately decided ‘that guy is evil’.
Black Bolt, Medusa, Crystal, Karnak, Gorgon, Triton and Lockjaw (Inhuman Royal Family)
Fans, specially X-Men fans, hate the characters to this day because of Marvel's stupid behind the scenes politics pre-Fox purchase.
Even though they got and still get the short end of the stick because of these decisions and X-Men fans now have everything they want (except for pre-retcon Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being Mutants, which was also another double retcon prior to that), fans still seem to hate the Inhuman Royal Family and other than Black Bolt and Lockjaw occasionally getting some role, we don't see them.
Which I hate because they are very interesting characters and their corner of Marvel is really unique.
As a non Inhuman hater or enjoyer, Marvel seems to write Black Bolt into more things, and that could be why X-Men fans don't hate him. Plus he's got an interesting power that is actually kind of a curse.
And Lockjaw... c'mon, who could hate on that doggo?
Was just about to type the same thing. I love the mutants, but I also really like the Inhumans in general and the IvX event did a horrible damage to their brand in addition to everything else. Fans who hate them don't even read Inhuman books, which is a shame because they have a lot of story potential. Need them to involve Inhumans more, I am starving!
Amen. I wrote a quick short story about his return a year or more ago.
[http://comicreliefpodcast.com/archives/2627](http://comicreliefpodcast.com/archives/2627)
Stacy-X.
While I'd been reading comics since I was a boy, it wasn't until her era that I finally started buying and reading X-Men comics on a regular basis. I wasn't ready as a fan to appreciate what Morrison was doing on New X-Men at the time, so I gravitated towards the more traditional Uncanny X-Men, and she was the new mutant introduced to that team. So I'll always have a soft spot for Stacy-X.
THIS.
Also, let’s get real here: the X-Men, the team of perennial outsiders from society, have the absolute AUDACITY to judge someone who had a very noticeable physical mutation for having previously used her pheromone power as a sex worker? Directly after watching the rest of her colleagues getting murdered horribly?
Like, they have literally judged Wolverine (who has murdered and maimed people by any kind of metric used to measure such things), Mystique (same), Magneto (SAME), Emma Frost (same) and many others WAY less harshly than they have Stacey who was [checks notes] a sex worker who never actually engaged in physical sexual activity with her clients, but used her powers instead?
Keep it classy X-Men…
Onslaught has an insanely cool design and lore behind it. But the original execution in the 90’s was quite lackluster.
Apocalypse was cooler than him in that event, and he wasn’t even the main villain!
Daken has a lot of haters online but I think he's fun, at least back when he was a villain or antihero. Also I won't lie, he's easy on the eyes. The mohawk look actually works when it isn't spiked and is long in the back.
I thought was interesting having a character who was the contrary to wolverine but with similar power set, sadly he was stuck as a dady hater for some time I was glad when he was finding his own niche in the universe thanks to his relationship with his sisters.
Proud Daken Hater here.
Pre-Krakoa era Daken (AKA The Asshole Wolverine) is the worst Wolverine retcon ever made. Thank god for Krakoa Era Daken making him a charismatic himbo who isn't driven by fake hatred toward his father. I personally like him now because they make him the asshole big brother of Laura and Gabby and they work as a family.
I never understood his hate for Wolverine (other than brainwashing, I guess). But like... his mom was stabbed in the guts, wasn't she? And died. How would you think the baby survives? And he's all "Waaahhh, daddy didn't love me." Bitch, Daddy didn't even know you were alive.
Exactly, and realizing that daddy didn't have a clue is an opportunity for character growth, maybe forgiveness. It also opens the door to work with Laura and Gabby and the asshole questions like "Why can't we just kill the lot of them?".
That's exactly my problem with Daken. His whole motivation in his debut is that he hates Logan for what happened to his mother, how he was treated as a child, and why he never was there. This is completely explained in the comic by him when he tells Wolverine he is the son he never knew he had... Which only makes him look stupid for holding a grudge against Wolverine.
This is a complete failure for the writer and his character because it demonstrates that Daken motivation is completely hollow. But the worst part is that after he gets told by Wolverine it was all Romulus's fault he just says "I don't care, I hate you".
So, on top of Daken being stupid, we will add being childish to his character...
I feel like Kraven the Hunter will end up sliding into the “who the fanbase hates” category depending on how bad the movie is. So, I’m just going to preemptively say that Kraven the Hunter is one of my favourite Spider-Man villains. Especially during “The Last Hunt.”
I don’t know where everyone stands on Hawkeye these days, but the prevailing meme is how much he sucks, and that’s a big part of why I like him actually.
He’s the ultimate underdog story.
One of my favorite stories in all of comics is one of his Solo Avengers stories, I think #5, where Hawkeye is captured, his bow and gear is taken, he's tossed in a cell and the guards laugh at him, saying he's nothing without his silly bow and arrows.
He makes an arsenal of weapons out of his bedframe and beats the shit out of every guard in the place, telling them on the way out that they shouldn't underestimate someone trained by Captain America.
Bro Hawkeye is the shit, I love him. He never gets enough credit at being a badass. Old blind Clint from Old Man Logan is my favorite rendition because it actually emphasized that Clint is a survivor. Because when you think about it, the idea of him being one of the few to survive actually makes a hell of a lot of sense. Plus it gave us the Old Man Hawkeye books, imo one of the best things to happen for Clint in a while
So it's established that Wolverine's claws are tucked away in his fore-arms, right? (The hands would be to short to house them etc).
Where is this guy Romulus' "thumb claw" hidden?
They're not real claws. They're actually just gauntlets. That's the real answer.
If you meant hypothetically "where *would* his thumb claw be hidden?", well then I'd say up the writer or artist's ass. They clearly didn't think things through.
It was definitely the weakest of the Netflix shows, but the online hate is so over blown its eye rolling. It was a perfectly enjoyable show. Not great not super eager for a rewatch like JJ or DD, but enjoyable.
My first comic of her was "the enemy within" a comic that i honestly love because of how it mananges Carol stress when she has to chooses between losing her powers or herself
i think onslaught would’ve been so much better if they had just done more with him in the original run instead of just making him a pre reboot transitional villain.
Honestly I think it was because Revolutionary Cyclops gets a bad wrap. He wasn't nearly as bad as people said and I honestly kind of understand how he fell down that hole. One of my favorite things about that era was him contemplating Logan's death and reminiscing on their relationship and tenuous respect for eachother.
I like Maggot and Marrow. To increase interest, I would make them the stars of an ongoing backup story in X-Men where they are investigating ground-level mutant trouble, but make it a comedy like Sam & Max.
The original Agents of Atlas. Spun off from a What If story into something really cool, then ditched it all for a spin-off group that ignored all the history and went nowhere.
https://imgur.com/a/z1dNJ0D
I didn't know Onslaught was hated.
Well, for mine, I think Kamala Khan is the only character I like that I think most people don't like.
Normal Miss Marvel Kamala Khan that is, X-Men Kamala Khan feels like going too much off the rails.
Other than that, I feel like all the other characters I like but most people don't are mainly unpopularity cases (It's not that they're hated, they just don't have much fans).
I don't know if I'd say he's hated, so much as; memed into oblivion and not as appreciated or used as much as he should be.
I'm an unapologetic, unironic Howard the Duck fan. I wish my boy would get some love and respect in the modern day.
I'm a Marvel vs Capcom fan and Onslaught is my favorite overpower villain of the X-men. I think his design and concept of a evil personality of Charles Xavier is perfect but dam I haven't see anyone make it work in comics.
In Fatal Attractions, Magneto unleashed a huge EMP which killed countless people. Then he ripped out Wolverine's adamuntium skeleton. This was Prof X's last straw so he mind crushed Magnus.
Apparently, when their minds made contact, Magneto's negative emotions merged with Xavier's own and this created a dark persona within Xavier's mind that consists of the dark sides of both of them. This is Onslaught. Onslaught grew over time as Xavier became increasingly more frustrated with mutant-human relations.
Eventually Onslaught took control and manifested as this huge psychic Magneto+Xavier monstrosity. He kidnapped Franklin Richards (son of Reed and Sue of the Fantastic Four) and Nate Grey (basically twink Cable from Age of Apocalypse, more or less) to absorb their powers and he also took control of Sentinels and launched a full assault on New York.
Onslaught fought the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, the Inhumans, the Hulk, the Avengers, and even Doctor Doom once Doom found out Onslaught had Franklin. He evolved into this energy being but he could only absorb mutants and non-mutants drained him, so in the end, the heroes won by piling themselves (non-mutants) into him in a grand sacrifice and then letting the X-Men finish him off.
However, this was actually all an excuse to relaunch all of their titles in an alternate universe because Franklin Richards saved everyone by creating a pocket universe and sending everyone who "perished" against Onslaught to it. Heroes Reborn was not well received.
Romulus.
He is one of those "I was behind it all along" characters that shows up out of nowhere, but claims to have been manipulating events over the course of centuries, Etc. And according to him, he, and mutants like Logan are the descendants of wolves rather than primates. Unfortunately, way too much of what he claims just doesn't line up with anything and he's dismissed as mostly being a and edge lord with an over inflated ego in a need to make himself seem more important than he actually is.
Onslaught was the big arc publishing when I was 10 years old and just starting to really get in to comics. I can understand some of the criticisms, but it will always be dear to me.
Edit: Hence the username that I've just stuck with since I was 13.
Onslaught was just in an (actually two) overbloated arcs similar to ben reily. which is why neither are particularly popular with people who grew up with those arcs. Though they look cool this was an era of style over substance (see: anything with the word EXTREME in it)
Wait. I only Romulus in name only but... Those claws aren't even retractable? Those are just part of a fucking glove? Am I reading that right from what people are saying?
I wouldn't say many dislike my favorite in Gambit, but Hollywood seems to think he's a throwaway character for whatever idiotic reasons they can come up with.
Not sure if he’s hated by the fan base but Leonid from Hickman’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. I’m a fan of the whole concept of a secret society tasked to protect earth through the ages, and the book never gets mentioned. Ever.
Onslaught honestly because when they introduced red onslaught it made me appreciate him even more I also really dig the mark miller Rob Liefeld Onslaught story line I know most ppl didn't but I had fun with it
I will say I just looked up Romulus and based on his wiki entry I get why people hate him. He orchestrated a ton of historical events and was connected to Weapon X, nazis, Draken, and the Black Widow program all while having powers similar to Wolverine? Kind of feels like someone created a DND character with Main Character Syndrome.
Adam Warlock
He’s my favorite, and unless he’s got the Infinity Gauntlet no one gives a shit
Also as a personal side note, Forget Me Not may be one of the most eclectic heroes
Locking Romulus into this Reverse flash esque "it was me Barry" with Wolverine retroactively took away a lot of the agency from the characters and made him a very one note villain. I also kinda like Sabertooth just hating Logan because he hates him rather than this master plan from Romulus to manipulate him for centuries. These retroactive reveals are always cool in the moment but become stale really quick. Like making Tony Stark the result of an alien bioengineering experiment instead of just a smart human. A bit here and there is par for the course but you need heroes who are the way they are because of choices they made or just happenstance instead of 'destiny' or 'grand designs' imo.
I thought the double reveal was that it was Tony’s brother Arno who was the bioengineered super baby and Tony was the adopted son of that musician/shield agent.
Ah you right I forgot about that, I can't remember if that was a soft retcon though or if it was planned in the same arc. Thanks for clarifying.
It was either the same arc like two issues later or the beginning of the next arc. I only remember because I recently re read them
He was introduced during the God armor mumbo jumbo... manhunter ripoff was fooled into believing Tony was Howard Stark's actual kid, next arc Arno is never heard from again. Idk if anyone watches "Whose line" but... CRAP CRAP CRAP!
Where everything is made up and the points don’t matter.
Lol i love when fixing a stupid story makes the story even stupider, or just as stupid, but with more parts
I actually thought it saved the story. Better than being an alien baby
I think making tony an alien baby was awful, so undoing that was great, but hated his new origin too. I cant particularly remember all the specifics of why, but i imagine it was largely just because i was thoroughly done with bendis by that point
Small correction: Arno is Morgan Stark’s son making him Tony’s first cousin once removed.
His father is Jude a hydra double agent and his mother was a musician and shield agent
Oh snap I’ve been missing out then. When was the whole cousin thing retconned?
Within a few months of arno’s reveal
Oh alright. Thank you for the information! Hope you have a good day!
No problem, you too
Thank you, so much this. Romulus just made Wolverine less interesting.
The thumb claw is stupid 😒
Where would it even go when retracted?
I think it's just a glove/gauntlet.
Exactly, it's adamantium, what's it gonna do ... bend 😒.
Nowhere. He doesn’t have claws with was part of the “reveal.” As much as he touts himself to be superior or “the next step” Logan realized he was just another pretender/wannabe.
Never liked it when it was revealed that Peter was involved in the "Web of Destiny". I know the "he was always meant to be nothing special" criticism has become so common it almost feels redundant but Spider-man really was meant to be a guy that you felt was an ordinary person given powers. The spider biting Peter's hand was always written as and always felt like a complete accident.
Same idea with Kyle Rayner.
>Like making Tony Stark the result of an alien bioengineering experiment instead of just a smart human. It was later reveal Tony is just a smart Human. It was his secret brother the one that was Bioengineered.
runner up is Tony's parent's weren't Howard and Maria... (SHIELD and a HYDRA agent if I recall) please correct me if I am wrong. I mentally block it out 99% of the time.
Is this why Court of Owls made me feel weird about Batman?
> These retroactive reveals are always cool in the moment but become stale really quick. Like making Tony Stark the result of an alien bioengineering experiment instead of just a smart human. Are they cool in the moment? To me it usually just feels like a desperate attempt by a writer to add to the legacy of a character. The good way is to write a memorable story, the bad way is to retroactively change something that will effect the character in a major way.
Honestly, Onslaught and the lore behind it had me very interested. But I haven’t read those comics. I guess execution matters a lot more than the ideas. I don’t know enough about what the fanbase hates to answer beyond that though.
I think the Onslaught is hated because he is basically some diabolus ex machina for the sake of an attempt reboot of marvel comics. That been said , I loved how Onslaught was used in Krakoa Era.
Yeah if Onslaught's OG crossover didn't end with Heroes Reborn, it'd probably be more fondly looked upon because a lot of really cool shit happened during the run. I will say though, at the time, Franklin's last ditch effort to save his family (thus creating the pocket universe) decked me right in the feels.
Onslaught is hated because of everything you mentioned but he’s mostly hated because Onslaught was one of the biggest factors in marvels bankruptcy in 96. Onslaught>Heroes Reborn is what drove many readers away from comics in the mid 90’s.
Also could another factor be that the Onslaught saga came immediately after Age of Apocalypse and just pales in comparison?
We have Apocalypse at home, the apocalypse at home ->
So weird, I guess maybe because I was a kid, but I loved Onslaught and Heroes Reborn. I guess it was really the first big epic comic event that happened for me at the height of collecting.
I mean glass half full after the bankruptcy and heroes RETURN happened we did get one of the best runs on Avengers in history. The Busiek/ Perez run
Same. I really do get the distaste for Heroes Reborn, but at that age, Onslaught was about the most epic shit I had ever read. I collected all the the TPBs and even have some graded. \*shrug\*
As someone who collected in that era, Onslaught was more of the final nail. Numerous crossovers and meaningless events as well as a gazillion "collectible" gimmick covers were already sending people away in droves.
I too collected then, the nail in the coffin for me was (as you said) all the stupid gimmick covers, Ben Reilly, The feral dog wolverine, and then onslaught>heroes reborn.
Can I ask. I heard a lot people talking about Onslaught being used during the Krakoa era and it being really cool and impactful, but when I read through the issues involved I felt like it came very abruptly and was quickly done away with. Is there something I'm missing?
It goes to show how terrible Onslaught actually is.
> That been said , I loved how Onslaught was used in Krakoa Era. Wasn't it relegated to like 2 issues? Seems kinda brief for what could have been a major threat and plot-line.
He personally showed for 2 issues , but his presence was showcased in Nichtcrawler/Legion Storyline. Onslaught was basically Krakoa’s Satan. His influence was to make the krakoan been suggestive to their impulses. Because Nightcrawler Storyline was about creating a Mutant Religion , it would logically be about him making moral principles, while Onslaught was forcing the others to be Morally Bankrupt in front of Nightcrawler. Basically, Nightcrawler was Faust and Onslaught was Mephistopheles
I was a teenager when it came out and thought the idea of Prof. Xavier losing his mind under the pressure of battling his inner demons/fusion with Magneto's darker nature and the X-men having to grapple with the fact that they may have to take their mentor out was so cool. I guess I was in the minority.
No you're right. It is a cool idea and I look forward to the possibility of it happening in X'97 but the comics resolution for it and being so close to AoA was too convoluted.
There are some good moments in the 90s Onslaught event, but it overall leaves a bad taste in my mouth because of how quickly and awkwardly the current Fantastic Four plots got wrapped up and things turned back to normal so that it could happen. Especially annoyed at Franklin Richards getting abruptly de-aged back to being a little kid.
>I guess execution matters a lot more than the ideas. This was the biggest problem, I think. Marvel had a lot of staff changeover immediately after the Age of Apocalypse event. AoA had been an excellent event, but largely because of the quality of people they had working on it. Fabian Nicieza had been on a roll writing X-Men and X-Force - both titles were really great; Matt Ryan was doing amazing ink work on Andy Kubert's pencils; Tony Daniel was storming the art on X-Force; Larry Hama and Adam Kubert were in the middle of their legendary run on Wolverine; Chris Bachalo was doing career-best work on Generation X; Warren Ellis was at the height of his fame and writing Excalibur with some spectacular art by Ken Lashley. If I remember correctly, by the time Onslaught started, they'd sacked Fabian Nicieza, Tony Daniel left Marvel, Matt Ryan left to work as a penciller and whoever replaced him started trying to ink Andy Kubert in manga-style which looked bad; Chris Bachalo went back to DC; Mark Waid started writing X-Men and hid style came across as really boring; Jeph Loeb started writing X-Force with predictably bad results; Excalibur was still struggling without Alan Davis and they couldn't keep a consistent art team for more than a couple of issues. Lashley moved on to different Marvel titles, I think. X-Factor was struggling without Peter David and had become just another generic X-Men book with endless tragedy and none of the comedy that made it a hit. Basically, Onslaught arrived at the start of Marvel's decline as a company and a really dark time for the X-Men line. They were making bad editorial decisions, bad staffing decisions and Image and DC were able to poach all their best creators.
I also think some of these characters from the late 80’s through the 90’s suffer from the art of the time. Ex machina + overpowered + 90’s art = cringe
I love Morbius, so the past few years haven't been kind to me.
He was cool in Marvel Midnight Sun 🤷🏻
His personality was insanely interesting compared to almost every other iteration on TV and movies I've seen. Classy but can't get normal people reference but also not an asshole was endearing. Also helps his card sets are amazing too.
I didn't like that they made him more like a normal vampire.
I admittedly not too familiar with his history but hadn’t that always been the case?
No, very different. Morbius is essentially a man who has mutated himself into a vampire bat hybrid.
It's morbin time
Absolutely loved those Rise of the Midnight Sons years. Morbius and Nightstalkers were great. 2!! Ghost Rider books. Does Vengeance even exist as a character any longer?
Morb
Jared Leto’s version absolutely doesn’t do the character justice
I hate that he wasn't ugly most of the time. Like, Morbius looking like a rotting corpse is part of the fun! And is a definite part of his "curse." He can't even pretend and he actually looks more monstrous than most real vampires.
Onslaught's design is basically "Magneto, but Super Shredder" and I love it so much.
Namor has a lot of haters but he's one of my favorites
I think most people hate Namor but in, like, a good way. He's very fun to hate. I've even made memes about how much I love seeing his ass getting rocked, that's how much I hate that guy. I still quite like seeing him in any book tho.
Nate Grey was awesome. I loved his character design, it was sort of a full potential cable. His powers were interesting with the way he could bring the astral into the material plane and it was nice to have an Omega level in the mix that wasn’t Frost, Jean or Charles. He also came with one of the most epic origin stories I’ve ever seen. One of the only survivors of AoA. It’s shame writers didn’t know what to do with him. I really liked his earlier stories with Sinister and how he factored into the Onslaught event.
[удалено]
It’s cool you liked the Shaman angle, it didn’t seem quite right for me personally. The Nate I loved was the fish out of water powerhouse. When he arrived in the main verse he had no idea who was good or bad and drifted around saving people like the littlest hobo. I loved when he looked into Xavier’s head and immediately decided ‘that guy is evil’.
Ben Reilly and Janine.
Literally everyone loves Ben Reilly now, saying you like him now is the same as saying you like the Star Wars Prequels.
I don't really see it, but ok let me be more specific. Ben Reilly and Janine as Chasm and Hallow's Eve.
That’s a very brave thing to say. I respect that.
I didn’t used to read many comics but I saw the cover of Hallows Eve and just thought the character looked really cool.
Black Bolt, Medusa, Crystal, Karnak, Gorgon, Triton and Lockjaw (Inhuman Royal Family) Fans, specially X-Men fans, hate the characters to this day because of Marvel's stupid behind the scenes politics pre-Fox purchase. Even though they got and still get the short end of the stick because of these decisions and X-Men fans now have everything they want (except for pre-retcon Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being Mutants, which was also another double retcon prior to that), fans still seem to hate the Inhuman Royal Family and other than Black Bolt and Lockjaw occasionally getting some role, we don't see them. Which I hate because they are very interesting characters and their corner of Marvel is really unique.
As a non Inhuman hater or enjoyer, Marvel seems to write Black Bolt into more things, and that could be why X-Men fans don't hate him. Plus he's got an interesting power that is actually kind of a curse. And Lockjaw... c'mon, who could hate on that doggo?
Lockjaw is the best. Fuck everyone else's opinion of him.
Was just about to type the same thing. I love the mutants, but I also really like the Inhumans in general and the IvX event did a horrible damage to their brand in addition to everything else. Fans who hate them don't even read Inhuman books, which is a shame because they have a lot of story potential. Need them to involve Inhumans more, I am starving!
The original Nomad, Jack Monroe
Hells yeah. There are dozens of us!
I'm glad to know it, I found all of his issues at a resell shop and have loved him since
Amen. I wrote a quick short story about his return a year or more ago. [http://comicreliefpodcast.com/archives/2627](http://comicreliefpodcast.com/archives/2627)
That's awesome man, I'm gonna check that out
Thanks! :)
Inhumans Royal family.
Onslaught is unapologetically 90's. I love him.
The Hood. Majority of people don’t seem to like him whenever he gets mentioned here and there. Honestly one of my favourite comic book villains.
Stacy-X. While I'd been reading comics since I was a boy, it wasn't until her era that I finally started buying and reading X-Men comics on a regular basis. I wasn't ready as a fan to appreciate what Morrison was doing on New X-Men at the time, so I gravitated towards the more traditional Uncanny X-Men, and she was the new mutant introduced to that team. So I'll always have a soft spot for Stacy-X.
THIS. Also, let’s get real here: the X-Men, the team of perennial outsiders from society, have the absolute AUDACITY to judge someone who had a very noticeable physical mutation for having previously used her pheromone power as a sex worker? Directly after watching the rest of her colleagues getting murdered horribly? Like, they have literally judged Wolverine (who has murdered and maimed people by any kind of metric used to measure such things), Mystique (same), Magneto (SAME), Emma Frost (same) and many others WAY less harshly than they have Stacey who was [checks notes] a sex worker who never actually engaged in physical sexual activity with her clients, but used her powers instead? Keep it classy X-Men…
Maybe she should blow up a planet of broccoli people if she wants to fit in.
Maybe she has! You don’t know her life’s journey, you sorcerer
Touché.
Banshee
Onslaught has an insanely cool design and lore behind it. But the original execution in the 90’s was quite lackluster. Apocalypse was cooler than him in that event, and he wasn’t even the main villain!
Daken has a lot of haters online but I think he's fun, at least back when he was a villain or antihero. Also I won't lie, he's easy on the eyes. The mohawk look actually works when it isn't spiked and is long in the back.
I came here to make a similar comment.
I thought was interesting having a character who was the contrary to wolverine but with similar power set, sadly he was stuck as a dady hater for some time I was glad when he was finding his own niche in the universe thanks to his relationship with his sisters.
Proud Daken Hater here. Pre-Krakoa era Daken (AKA The Asshole Wolverine) is the worst Wolverine retcon ever made. Thank god for Krakoa Era Daken making him a charismatic himbo who isn't driven by fake hatred toward his father. I personally like him now because they make him the asshole big brother of Laura and Gabby and they work as a family.
I never understood his hate for Wolverine (other than brainwashing, I guess). But like... his mom was stabbed in the guts, wasn't she? And died. How would you think the baby survives? And he's all "Waaahhh, daddy didn't love me." Bitch, Daddy didn't even know you were alive.
Emotions don’t work on logic.
Exactly, and realizing that daddy didn't have a clue is an opportunity for character growth, maybe forgiveness. It also opens the door to work with Laura and Gabby and the asshole questions like "Why can't we just kill the lot of them?".
That's exactly my problem with Daken. His whole motivation in his debut is that he hates Logan for what happened to his mother, how he was treated as a child, and why he never was there. This is completely explained in the comic by him when he tells Wolverine he is the son he never knew he had... Which only makes him look stupid for holding a grudge against Wolverine. This is a complete failure for the writer and his character because it demonstrates that Daken motivation is completely hollow. But the worst part is that after he gets told by Wolverine it was all Romulus's fault he just says "I don't care, I hate you". So, on top of Daken being stupid, we will add being childish to his character...
Dark Avengers era Daken is best Daken
I feel like Kraven the Hunter will end up sliding into the “who the fanbase hates” category depending on how bad the movie is. So, I’m just going to preemptively say that Kraven the Hunter is one of my favourite Spider-Man villains. Especially during “The Last Hunt.”
Hank Pym, I’d give him more chances to shine and redeem himself in major storylines
I don’t know where everyone stands on Hawkeye these days, but the prevailing meme is how much he sucks, and that’s a big part of why I like him actually. He’s the ultimate underdog story.
One of my favorite stories in all of comics is one of his Solo Avengers stories, I think #5, where Hawkeye is captured, his bow and gear is taken, he's tossed in a cell and the guards laugh at him, saying he's nothing without his silly bow and arrows. He makes an arsenal of weapons out of his bedframe and beats the shit out of every guard in the place, telling them on the way out that they shouldn't underestimate someone trained by Captain America.
Big fan of comic book Hawkeye, do not like MCU Hawkeye all that much.
Bro Hawkeye is the shit, I love him. He never gets enough credit at being a badass. Old blind Clint from Old Man Logan is my favorite rendition because it actually emphasized that Clint is a survivor. Because when you think about it, the idea of him being one of the few to survive actually makes a hell of a lot of sense. Plus it gave us the Old Man Hawkeye books, imo one of the best things to happen for Clint in a while
Strong guy
Who hates Strong Guy? Although... didn't they recently character assassinate him? Or... I guess that may have been a decade ago now...
So it's established that Wolverine's claws are tucked away in his fore-arms, right? (The hands would be to short to house them etc). Where is this guy Romulus' "thumb claw" hidden?
They're not real claws. They're actually just gauntlets. That's the real answer. If you meant hypothetically "where *would* his thumb claw be hidden?", well then I'd say up the writer or artist's ass. They clearly didn't think things through.
Going way back here, Cypher. I always wondered how he would do if he became Strange's apprentice.
Don't know about hate but Mockingbird.
Hank Pym. I'm not sure if the fanbase hates him, but Marvel universe and writers sure do.
I like Morlun, I imagine I've read mostly hate about him. But honestly that might be my brain making stuff up.
The newer symbiotes like misery and widow.
Know my name and fear it. I AM ONSLAUGHT!
Speedball.
Barakapool
No shade but you must not like Deadpool im assuming? 😂😂
Iron Fist. I think the show was amazing.
Everyone likes Danny Rand. Just not the show.
It was definitely the weakest of the Netflix shows, but the online hate is so over blown its eye rolling. It was a perfectly enjoyable show. Not great not super eager for a rewatch like JJ or DD, but enjoyable.
I loved the show.
Well, I was talking about characters.
I loved the show.
Sentry
Yellow Jacket Hank Pym. One of my favorite characters but everyone hates him now, especially since the Ultimates.
Carol danvers. People hate her for civil war 2 but like,the point is that she is wrong. Its like hating on happines in inside out
Ngl I used to be one of her haters but I find her a lot more likable after playing Midnight Suns and reading some of her comics.
My first comic of her was "the enemy within" a comic that i honestly love because of how it mananges Carol stress when she has to chooses between losing her powers or herself
Sounds epic I’ll check it out.
Angel, apparently.
i think onslaught would’ve been so much better if they had just done more with him in the original run instead of just making him a pre reboot transitional villain.
I like Apocalypse, EZ PZ. Most of my faves are villains tbh, but Apocalypse is pretty fun, imo!
Not long ago, I would have said Cyclops. Thank God for X-Men 97.
Honestly I think it was because Revolutionary Cyclops gets a bad wrap. He wasn't nearly as bad as people said and I honestly kind of understand how he fell down that hole. One of my favorite things about that era was him contemplating Logan's death and reminiscing on their relationship and tenuous respect for eachother.
Teresa Parker. I know everyone hates the long-lost-secret-sibling trope but I honestly like it. So I hope we see her again sone day.
Evil Morph
I always liked Cardiac and Puma. Wish there were more stories with them.
Mary Jane Watson (specifically Insomniac’s depiction)
She’s perfect.
I like Maggot and Marrow. To increase interest, I would make them the stars of an ongoing backup story in X-Men where they are investigating ground-level mutant trouble, but make it a comedy like Sam & Max.
You can tell he's stronger than wolverine because he has an extra claw
The original Agents of Atlas. Spun off from a What If story into something really cool, then ditched it all for a spin-off group that ignored all the history and went nowhere. https://imgur.com/a/z1dNJ0D
I would love to see Onslaught in season 2 of X-Men 97
People hate onslaught? I can understand hating what happened afterwards bc of onslaught, but onslaught himself?
Why didn't you name the 2 pictures you posted. Man give some newbies the name / comics they're from.
Ben Reilly being Spider-Man in the 90’s people crap all over him and the clone saga but I really liked him.
Barakapool
I didn't know Onslaught was hated. Well, for mine, I think Kamala Khan is the only character I like that I think most people don't like. Normal Miss Marvel Kamala Khan that is, X-Men Kamala Khan feels like going too much off the rails. Other than that, I feel like all the other characters I like but most people don't are mainly unpopularity cases (It's not that they're hated, they just don't have much fans).
Before X-Men 97’, Cyclops and before MCU, Iron Man
batman ;P
I don't know if I'd say he's hated, so much as; memed into oblivion and not as appreciated or used as much as he should be. I'm an unapologetic, unironic Howard the Duck fan. I wish my boy would get some love and respect in the modern day.
Captain Marvel. They really screwed the pooch on the girl boss.
I don’t know why people say that? I still like her as a character.
Not really sure if its hated or just nobody cared, but I love Toad
Damn I didn’t know Onslaught was hated. I loved him as a kid and in the Marvel vs Capcom game
I'm a Marvel vs Capcom fan and Onslaught is my favorite overpower villain of the X-men. I think his design and concept of a evil personality of Charles Xavier is perfect but dam I haven't see anyone make it work in comics.
Alpha.
Who’s that?
Whats Onslaughts story? Havent read comics about him and i only know him from marvel vs capcom
In Fatal Attractions, Magneto unleashed a huge EMP which killed countless people. Then he ripped out Wolverine's adamuntium skeleton. This was Prof X's last straw so he mind crushed Magnus. Apparently, when their minds made contact, Magneto's negative emotions merged with Xavier's own and this created a dark persona within Xavier's mind that consists of the dark sides of both of them. This is Onslaught. Onslaught grew over time as Xavier became increasingly more frustrated with mutant-human relations. Eventually Onslaught took control and manifested as this huge psychic Magneto+Xavier monstrosity. He kidnapped Franklin Richards (son of Reed and Sue of the Fantastic Four) and Nate Grey (basically twink Cable from Age of Apocalypse, more or less) to absorb their powers and he also took control of Sentinels and launched a full assault on New York. Onslaught fought the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, the Inhumans, the Hulk, the Avengers, and even Doctor Doom once Doom found out Onslaught had Franklin. He evolved into this energy being but he could only absorb mutants and non-mutants drained him, so in the end, the heroes won by piling themselves (non-mutants) into him in a grand sacrifice and then letting the X-Men finish him off. However, this was actually all an excuse to relaunch all of their titles in an alternate universe because Franklin Richards saved everyone by creating a pocket universe and sending everyone who "perished" against Onslaught to it. Heroes Reborn was not well received.
Paul (Stacey)
Who's Number 39: Magneto over here?
Who the dude in the second picture.
Romulus. He is one of those "I was behind it all along" characters that shows up out of nowhere, but claims to have been manipulating events over the course of centuries, Etc. And according to him, he, and mutants like Logan are the descendants of wolves rather than primates. Unfortunately, way too much of what he claims just doesn't line up with anything and he's dismissed as mostly being a and edge lord with an over inflated ego in a need to make himself seem more important than he actually is.
What is Onslaught's deal? I'm not familiar with him
After wiping the evil from Magnetos mind, Professor X’s mind became corrupted by Magnetos evil, and Prof X developed an evil personality.
Onslaught seems so broken 😢
I love flexo
Do people hate Onslaught?
Onslaught was the big arc publishing when I was 10 years old and just starting to really get in to comics. I can understand some of the criticisms, but it will always be dear to me. Edit: Hence the username that I've just stuck with since I was 13.
People hate Onslaught? He is one of my favorites
I loved the Onslaught story, and hated Heroes Reborn. I also think Chuck should have died at the end.
Onslaught was just in an (actually two) overbloated arcs similar to ben reily. which is why neither are particularly popular with people who grew up with those arcs. Though they look cool this was an era of style over substance (see: anything with the word EXTREME in it)
Weapon H, it's a stupid idea but I love him. Don't if he's hated but definitely not talked much about.
Wait. I only Romulus in name only but... Those claws aren't even retractable? Those are just part of a fucking glove? Am I reading that right from what people are saying?
I legit expected someone to write Paul Rabin, or just Paul. I guess he's not cool enough.
I wouldn't say many dislike my favorite in Gambit, but Hollywood seems to think he's a throwaway character for whatever idiotic reasons they can come up with.
Apocalypse I think he makes an awesome semi hero like in the recent comics but everyone seems to want him as a villain
Ezekiel Sims was the GOAT
What’s the consensus on Death’s Head II? I know the original has a decent fan base but I really liked to second version.
Spat and Grovel
Ms Marvel but the MCU version (I know people like her a lot more since the marvels but there are still many haters)
people hate onslaught?????? i dislike those people
Who’s the guy in the second picture
Not sure if he’s hated by the fan base but Leonid from Hickman’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. I’m a fan of the whole concept of a secret society tasked to protect earth through the ages, and the book never gets mentioned. Ever.
Ben Reilly, Carnage, Onslaught, Knull. I love each of those characters for many different reasons and I would be more than happy to explain if asked
Ms Marvel (Kamala Khan). As a teen I find her relatable but most people see her and say ew she is that woke dumb fangirl.
Cyclops!
The fallen one
I know I will get "not all hate her", but I'll still say Wanda.
Jar Jar Binks. No, wait. That's Star Wars. Now let me think of a Marvel character.....
Onslaught honestly because when they introduced red onslaught it made me appreciate him even more I also really dig the mark miller Rob Liefeld Onslaught story line I know most ppl didn't but I had fun with it
Does the Maximum Cloneage Spiderman saga count as a whole character, b/c people sure do hate it like it is. I loved it.
I will say I just looked up Romulus and based on his wiki entry I get why people hate him. He orchestrated a ton of historical events and was connected to Weapon X, nazis, Draken, and the Black Widow program all while having powers similar to Wolverine? Kind of feels like someone created a DND character with Main Character Syndrome.
Adam Warlock He’s my favorite, and unless he’s got the Infinity Gauntlet no one gives a shit Also as a personal side note, Forget Me Not may be one of the most eclectic heroes
Eric O’Grady
Every one i talks to fucking hates Parker Robbins. Holy fuck he’s GOATED AF i like him more than dr doom
Sentry and Hyperion The original Kaine with the blue suit little cape, long hair and webbing on the face