99% of these problems would be solved by going outside lol. I'm a pretty feminine woman and I've never been "debased" for it. This isn't a real problem.
ambitious claim, especially when you look at literally any Western countries’s approach to Trans people (i.e. trying to literally erase them)
a more realistic take is that the elites tend to pioneer ‘culture wars’, to distract those who don’t know any better from seeing the wider structural / internal issues within bodies of power. It used to be black people, then it was gay people, now we’re working on immigrants and trans people
People are less likely to address true inequality if you’ve managed to stir them up into trivial obsessions about other people’s genitals and bathrooms. The masses love a scapegoat, and the government needs to find a stand-in so they don’t start getting blamed for the issues they create
Not saying trans people shouldn't have rights or dignity but people spearheading the movement have become too authoritarian in their methods and approaches. When it becomes a multinational propoganda campaign, there's more to this than meets the eye.
Yeah, that's basically what I'm talking about, but you put it more elegantly than i could at that moment, but keep in mind that a multiple pronged attack is usually superior to a single pronged one. If you're going to enslave a species as variable as the human race, you need to hit as many groups simultaneously as you can. Cause division any way you can. Then disempower the alienated groups until everyone is disconnected from themselves and each other.
Easy pickings when everyone is a prisoner of their own mind.
> When it becomes a multinational propoganda campaign, there's more to this than meets the eye.
wdym by propaganda? was the civil rights movement ‘propaganda’?
This is just another widespread social movement concerned with equal rights for Trans people, the same movements that fought for equal rights for black people, gay people etc etc
> Yeah, that's basically what I'm talking about
but you’ve got it mixed up, the elites aren’t making people trans, that’s not something you can ‘indoctrinate’ people into on a significant scale, they’re weaponising transphobia, blaming / fabricating social issues placing trans people as a ‘problem’ or source of core social issues.
It really doesn’t make much sense to be attacking the activists in this situation, they are not the problem
Trans people account for less than 1% of the US population according to UCLA school of law. Yet measures advocated by the trans lobby at times are aimed to compel authoritarian measures on the other 99%, to recommend and in some cases compel untested medical treatments on minors. The media coverage of the issue is way out of scope to the actual issue, which on its own has some legitimate points (like the need for unisex restroom options, for example). The issues themselves are not the propogandistic element, but the way they are being covered and forced through the legal system with little forethought to consequences of the policies and with reactionary zeal.
Trans rights are not the same animal as gay rights or rights of ethnic minority because there is no reliable way to assess gender identity in an objective sense, and this is further complicated by the prevalence of mental illness in people who self identfy as trans, the potential for people to later regret reassignment (especially in the case of a minor), and the fact that those therapies can and do have permanent consequences for the patient. In this respect, the lack of a balanced conversation is likewise propogandistic. As a result, Gay rights and rights for racial minorities have a clarity that trans issues lack.
I never said elites are making people trans, im saying that the coverage of trans issues on this scale and in this way has had and will continue to have an undue effect on impressionable people (like minors and mentally ill people) who can potentially come to believe that changing their sex will solve all their problems and wind up sterilized. And the more people like radical feminists deny the biological component of sex/gender, the more this becomes a danger.
The elites would have no problem with the sterilization of the lower classes. Many of them have come out in support of eugenics, so it is no surprise then to see them backing trans movement in this manner.
> Trans people account for less than 1% of the US population according to UCLA school of law. Yet measures advocated by the trans lobby at times are aimed to compel authoritarian measures on the other 99%…
This isn’t really a morally sound argument to make, it does not matter how small a group within society is they still deserve equal rights. That’s what underpins the trans rights movements, regardless of the spin you try and put on its.
> The media coverage of the issue is way out of scope to the actual issue, which on its own has some legitimate points (like the need for unisex restroom options, for example).
I agree, hence why i explain this idea of a ‘culture war’, the bathroom debate is a perfect example of this. A non-issue being blown out of proportion by groups trying to spread divide. You wouldn’t want passing trans men like ‘Buck Angel’ waltzing into women’s bathrooms, and you don’t want masculine presenting cis women being lambasted because they don’t fit the norm. The current system works, gender neutral bathrooms would also be a nice addition, i’d argue they should be the norm for everyone regardless of gender.
> The issues themselves are not the propogandistic element, but the way they are being covered and forced through the legal system with little forethought to consequences of the policies and with reactionary zeal
This only really points to a small aspect of the trans topic. There is valid criticism surrounding the medical procedures, just like there is valid supporting evidence, but the existence of this debate doesn’t necessarily extend to the wider topic of trans people’s rights to exist.
> Trans rights are not the same animal as gay rights or rights of ethnic minority because there is no reliable way to assess gender identity in an objective sense
Sexuality is widely considered a sort of spectrum isn’t it? That’s not particularly objective
You’re right that they’re not exactly the same but i’m not trying to draw a literal direct comparison, rather I’m comparing the wider shared sentiments of equal rights and prejudice
> …further complicated by the prevalence of mental illness in people who self identfy as trans
True, certain mental illnesses can increase someones vulnerability to gender dysphoria (i think there’s something about women with autism? and ofc other examples)
> the potential for people to later regret reassignment (especially in the case of a minor),
This not so much? The success rate for hormonal therapy in combatting symptoms of depression is on par / better than most anti-depressants on the market i think? If we consider it purely as a form of therapy, hormone therapy is extremely effective
And regret is widely demonstrated in instances where the transitioned individual has not been accepted, does not receive support from their family. Yes some people do regret the decision but you need to keep it respective to medical operations in general. Transgender regret over surgery if anything is substantially lower than the regret rate in standard practice (i.e. Hip replacement regret is around 10% odd)
Basically if we place trans related surgeries on par with other medical procedures, in a sense it ‘outperforms’, yet it is not being held to a medical standard. It is being held to a social standard, hence why you here public backlash towards gender affirming surgery / hormones and not hip replacement operations.
> As a result, Gay rights and rights for racial minorities have a clarity that trans issues lack
Very much agree with this general point though
> coverage of trans issues on this scale and in this way has had and will continue to have undue effects…
True, i do agree with this scepticism. Especially with how mental health in general has almost become ‘commercialised’ for young people. I do however hold the idea that this cannot be used as an argument against trans people themselves, but the media / hateful groups do still use it to this effect
It’s a criticism of i guess a ‘culture’ surrounding it. It is not an excuse to deny or oppose trans rights / liberties. Also, surgeries should be between the surgeon and the patient, but the governments in the US are stepping in to oppose / van this
> The elites would have no problem with the sterilization of the lower classes
But for me the elites do not seem to support trans rights. Mainstream Media attention is typically negative / presents the topic as a ‘debate’. Like i mentioned it stokes a culture war with these stupid ‘bathroom battles’ to distract from bigger governmental issues.
I just feel that eugenics point is a little overstressed
I'm not saying trans people don't deserve to be treated equally or that their issues shouldn't be discussed, all im saying is that trans issues are covered by the media in a manner out of scope with the impact that those issues have on society as a whole and that this kind of coverage is propogandistic. Not to mention the McCarthyistic attacks on individuals for their private opinions, the constant redefinition of words in order to move the goalposts, and the desire to compel speech.
What if i told you that there was a group who constitutes 50% of the population that is routinely and systemically discriminated against in terms of employment, education, as well as legal and public services? What if I told you that the situation was so bad that the members of this group are disproportionately at risk of homelessness and suicide? Yet you hear little from the media about this issue because silent self sacrifice of individuals in this group have come to be expected by the society. In fact, the members of this group are routinely subject to prejudicial abuse and scrutiny by the same society when they speak out about their issues. Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that this should be taken as a larger issue since what affects 50% of the population has a larger impact than what affects <1%? Yet you hear virtually nothing objective from the mainstream media. This likewise is propogandistic but through the diminishment and engineered ignorance of those issues. And we should always ask, "who owns the media?"
The media picks trans issues to cover because the spectacle of potential inflammatory response becomes a smokescreen to hide larger issues. This is a type of propoganda. Its the army game of giving special treatment to a (culturally) disruptive minority in order direct the ire of a systemically abused majority at them, dividing and disempowering both. Distracting both with each other, more importantly. This is how the rulers keep the status quo and remain in control.
But it would be a mistake to believe that the methods and reasons end there, or that the rulers aren't ok with the pathological consequences of their stratagems on the lower classes. As mentioned before, a multi pronged attack is generally superior to a single pronged one. Until we as a species evolve in such a way as there can truly exist a classless society, we will all be subject to the inevitability and consequences of class warfare. Let's hope it doesn't ultimately destroy us.
99% of these problems would be solved by going outside lol. I'm a pretty feminine woman and I've never been "debased" for it. This isn't a real problem.
[удалено]
I'm not offended by this person. Live your life, do what makes you happy, and stop worrying about gender norms.
This is a way for economic elites to disempower the lower classes by trying to indoctrinate them into trying to be what they are not
ambitious claim, especially when you look at literally any Western countries’s approach to Trans people (i.e. trying to literally erase them) a more realistic take is that the elites tend to pioneer ‘culture wars’, to distract those who don’t know any better from seeing the wider structural / internal issues within bodies of power. It used to be black people, then it was gay people, now we’re working on immigrants and trans people People are less likely to address true inequality if you’ve managed to stir them up into trivial obsessions about other people’s genitals and bathrooms. The masses love a scapegoat, and the government needs to find a stand-in so they don’t start getting blamed for the issues they create
Not saying trans people shouldn't have rights or dignity but people spearheading the movement have become too authoritarian in their methods and approaches. When it becomes a multinational propoganda campaign, there's more to this than meets the eye. Yeah, that's basically what I'm talking about, but you put it more elegantly than i could at that moment, but keep in mind that a multiple pronged attack is usually superior to a single pronged one. If you're going to enslave a species as variable as the human race, you need to hit as many groups simultaneously as you can. Cause division any way you can. Then disempower the alienated groups until everyone is disconnected from themselves and each other. Easy pickings when everyone is a prisoner of their own mind.
> When it becomes a multinational propoganda campaign, there's more to this than meets the eye. wdym by propaganda? was the civil rights movement ‘propaganda’? This is just another widespread social movement concerned with equal rights for Trans people, the same movements that fought for equal rights for black people, gay people etc etc > Yeah, that's basically what I'm talking about but you’ve got it mixed up, the elites aren’t making people trans, that’s not something you can ‘indoctrinate’ people into on a significant scale, they’re weaponising transphobia, blaming / fabricating social issues placing trans people as a ‘problem’ or source of core social issues. It really doesn’t make much sense to be attacking the activists in this situation, they are not the problem
Trans people account for less than 1% of the US population according to UCLA school of law. Yet measures advocated by the trans lobby at times are aimed to compel authoritarian measures on the other 99%, to recommend and in some cases compel untested medical treatments on minors. The media coverage of the issue is way out of scope to the actual issue, which on its own has some legitimate points (like the need for unisex restroom options, for example). The issues themselves are not the propogandistic element, but the way they are being covered and forced through the legal system with little forethought to consequences of the policies and with reactionary zeal. Trans rights are not the same animal as gay rights or rights of ethnic minority because there is no reliable way to assess gender identity in an objective sense, and this is further complicated by the prevalence of mental illness in people who self identfy as trans, the potential for people to later regret reassignment (especially in the case of a minor), and the fact that those therapies can and do have permanent consequences for the patient. In this respect, the lack of a balanced conversation is likewise propogandistic. As a result, Gay rights and rights for racial minorities have a clarity that trans issues lack. I never said elites are making people trans, im saying that the coverage of trans issues on this scale and in this way has had and will continue to have an undue effect on impressionable people (like minors and mentally ill people) who can potentially come to believe that changing their sex will solve all their problems and wind up sterilized. And the more people like radical feminists deny the biological component of sex/gender, the more this becomes a danger. The elites would have no problem with the sterilization of the lower classes. Many of them have come out in support of eugenics, so it is no surprise then to see them backing trans movement in this manner.
> Trans people account for less than 1% of the US population according to UCLA school of law. Yet measures advocated by the trans lobby at times are aimed to compel authoritarian measures on the other 99%… This isn’t really a morally sound argument to make, it does not matter how small a group within society is they still deserve equal rights. That’s what underpins the trans rights movements, regardless of the spin you try and put on its. > The media coverage of the issue is way out of scope to the actual issue, which on its own has some legitimate points (like the need for unisex restroom options, for example). I agree, hence why i explain this idea of a ‘culture war’, the bathroom debate is a perfect example of this. A non-issue being blown out of proportion by groups trying to spread divide. You wouldn’t want passing trans men like ‘Buck Angel’ waltzing into women’s bathrooms, and you don’t want masculine presenting cis women being lambasted because they don’t fit the norm. The current system works, gender neutral bathrooms would also be a nice addition, i’d argue they should be the norm for everyone regardless of gender. > The issues themselves are not the propogandistic element, but the way they are being covered and forced through the legal system with little forethought to consequences of the policies and with reactionary zeal This only really points to a small aspect of the trans topic. There is valid criticism surrounding the medical procedures, just like there is valid supporting evidence, but the existence of this debate doesn’t necessarily extend to the wider topic of trans people’s rights to exist. > Trans rights are not the same animal as gay rights or rights of ethnic minority because there is no reliable way to assess gender identity in an objective sense Sexuality is widely considered a sort of spectrum isn’t it? That’s not particularly objective You’re right that they’re not exactly the same but i’m not trying to draw a literal direct comparison, rather I’m comparing the wider shared sentiments of equal rights and prejudice > …further complicated by the prevalence of mental illness in people who self identfy as trans True, certain mental illnesses can increase someones vulnerability to gender dysphoria (i think there’s something about women with autism? and ofc other examples) > the potential for people to later regret reassignment (especially in the case of a minor), This not so much? The success rate for hormonal therapy in combatting symptoms of depression is on par / better than most anti-depressants on the market i think? If we consider it purely as a form of therapy, hormone therapy is extremely effective And regret is widely demonstrated in instances where the transitioned individual has not been accepted, does not receive support from their family. Yes some people do regret the decision but you need to keep it respective to medical operations in general. Transgender regret over surgery if anything is substantially lower than the regret rate in standard practice (i.e. Hip replacement regret is around 10% odd) Basically if we place trans related surgeries on par with other medical procedures, in a sense it ‘outperforms’, yet it is not being held to a medical standard. It is being held to a social standard, hence why you here public backlash towards gender affirming surgery / hormones and not hip replacement operations. > As a result, Gay rights and rights for racial minorities have a clarity that trans issues lack Very much agree with this general point though > coverage of trans issues on this scale and in this way has had and will continue to have undue effects… True, i do agree with this scepticism. Especially with how mental health in general has almost become ‘commercialised’ for young people. I do however hold the idea that this cannot be used as an argument against trans people themselves, but the media / hateful groups do still use it to this effect It’s a criticism of i guess a ‘culture’ surrounding it. It is not an excuse to deny or oppose trans rights / liberties. Also, surgeries should be between the surgeon and the patient, but the governments in the US are stepping in to oppose / van this > The elites would have no problem with the sterilization of the lower classes But for me the elites do not seem to support trans rights. Mainstream Media attention is typically negative / presents the topic as a ‘debate’. Like i mentioned it stokes a culture war with these stupid ‘bathroom battles’ to distract from bigger governmental issues. I just feel that eugenics point is a little overstressed
I'm not saying trans people don't deserve to be treated equally or that their issues shouldn't be discussed, all im saying is that trans issues are covered by the media in a manner out of scope with the impact that those issues have on society as a whole and that this kind of coverage is propogandistic. Not to mention the McCarthyistic attacks on individuals for their private opinions, the constant redefinition of words in order to move the goalposts, and the desire to compel speech. What if i told you that there was a group who constitutes 50% of the population that is routinely and systemically discriminated against in terms of employment, education, as well as legal and public services? What if I told you that the situation was so bad that the members of this group are disproportionately at risk of homelessness and suicide? Yet you hear little from the media about this issue because silent self sacrifice of individuals in this group have come to be expected by the society. In fact, the members of this group are routinely subject to prejudicial abuse and scrutiny by the same society when they speak out about their issues. Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that this should be taken as a larger issue since what affects 50% of the population has a larger impact than what affects <1%? Yet you hear virtually nothing objective from the mainstream media. This likewise is propogandistic but through the diminishment and engineered ignorance of those issues. And we should always ask, "who owns the media?" The media picks trans issues to cover because the spectacle of potential inflammatory response becomes a smokescreen to hide larger issues. This is a type of propoganda. Its the army game of giving special treatment to a (culturally) disruptive minority in order direct the ire of a systemically abused majority at them, dividing and disempowering both. Distracting both with each other, more importantly. This is how the rulers keep the status quo and remain in control. But it would be a mistake to believe that the methods and reasons end there, or that the rulers aren't ok with the pathological consequences of their stratagems on the lower classes. As mentioned before, a multi pronged attack is generally superior to a single pronged one. Until we as a species evolve in such a way as there can truly exist a classless society, we will all be subject to the inevitability and consequences of class warfare. Let's hope it doesn't ultimately destroy us.