Excerpt from the press release, translated with the help of DeepL:
> The Autodromo Interlagos, in São Paulo, will be the stage for the second round of the NASCAR Brazil Sprint Race, and the two races scheduled for Sunday, April 30, will generate a huge expectation, because the "Success Ballast" (extra weight) will be imposed to the leaders, an item included in the championship rules, which will remain in all rounds of the season and will follow in the following proportion: 30 kg to first place, 25 kg to second, and 20 kg to third, in each class.
> The first three placed in the championship of divisions PRO, PROAM and AM, will carry this extra weight that will be added to the car by the organization, according to the championship score at the end of each round.
TL;DR It works like the success ballast that BTCC used before BTCC introduced their hybrids and it'll be given to whoever sits in the top 3 of the standings for each class.
I feel like one of the dirty secrets of motorsports is everyone's lowkey trying to create something close to parity.
NASCAR's just the only one to do it out in the open.
I mean more in terms of at a global scale. Every racing series would probably love it if the racing/finishes were always close, and the championship battle always came down to the last race.
NASCAR just went all-in and changed the rules to actually make it happen instead of tinkering with things that sort of might get there.
That's what I mean. They ripped the band-aid off and were like "oh, we're not hiding the kind of thing we want to see." Not always for the best, but just interesting.
I know what it is. I follow a bit of IMSA/sportscar racing, so it's a concept I'm familiar with.
I'm just saying I feel like there's still a gulf between placing the cars in a "performance window" so to speak and insuring no one manufacturer/team gets out to a major advantage, and jumping to stage cautions/a winner-take-all finale.
It was just a throwaway observation that no motorsport has gone "all-in" on trying to neutralize *all* advantages quite like NASCAR has. I'm not dismissing that BoP isn't also something along those lines.
Yes, I'm the idiot. Not the guy who claims only NASCAR openly equalizes performance. I know most NASCAR fans don't watch other motorsports but this is so easily checked. Like all the people who think NASCAR made the SAFER barriers.
It's always amazing that somebody so stupid could be so arrogant.
Let me lay this out for you, it looks like you need some help.
Other series make changes to the car to impact the BoP but the race itself remains mostly unchanged. OP was implying NASCAR has taken a different path. They don't hide the fact that they want to artificially equalize performance by bunching the field up to create drama and close finishes through all of their gimmicks like fathom debris cautions, ridiculous caution clocks/stage breaks, double file restarts, unlimited overtimes.
Now was that explanation too many words for you or are you surprisingly capable of understanding it?
Considering this topic is about Success Ballast. That is not at all what he meant. And even if it was, that's also not true. WEC/IMSA have pit stop rules to bunch up each class, and pretty much every series, including F1 uses wave around now.
NASCAR is not the only series openly balancing stuff. Period. And it's not even close.
I never said they were the only one. Just that they went further than anyone else and were kinda unashamed about it (in-race planned cautions/a championship finale that wipes out points.).. Not even as a pro/anti NASCAR statement, just an observation based on the conversation.
I'm not even claiming I'm right. Just wanted to share my thoughts.
And I did. So we can agree to disagree and have a good time XD.
Life's too short to get riled up in an online conversation.
Do you have to be a dickhead this quickly in the replies or did they say something that just rubbed you the wrong way? Because there’s no reason for you to be a cock like that
First of all I don’t know who you think you’re talking to like that but you got the wrong one. That guy started it by insulting him for no reason. So mind your business before you get yourself involved in something that you will seriously regret.
Although I've advocating success ballast as a substitute for playoffs, there were cases in Super GT where teams were manipulating finishes to get favorable success ballast. In fact, both the GT500 and GT300 champions in 2003 were both winless.
(To counter this, since 2009 Super GT makes it so that the ballast is halved with two races to go and then taken out entirely for the final race - provided you start all races.)
I did say even more. Im quite aware of the shenanigans the aport has implemented throughout the years. I dont want it to progress further towards it (and actually want it to go back some.
You really don't see how this would shift the series even further from sport over to spectacle?
You do realize this isn't a dichotomy right? Sport and spectacle?
All things considered, Success ballast isn't that wild of idea. BOP is and has been a thing in endurance racing forever, and this isn't all that far from BOP.
They sort of are. Like I eluded to earlier, It's kind of a spectrum and the series would be moving towards the one end. It's sim racing vs Mario Kart. Olympic wrestling vs WWE. I'm not saying it will instantly be the far side, but just moving down the line. It appears you are fine with that, but I prefer it to go the other direction.
This isn't a BOP though. NASCAR already has utilized that, and still does with balancing aero components between manufacturers i am 100% okay with giving drivers equal equipment. Give them spec cars for all I care.
This would be adding weights to slow down fast drivers. It's fake as hell.
They absolutely are not. It's not a spectrum at all. There are some things, like random starting positions that are all spectacle and no sport. Not fair in the slightest, and only there to jazz up the show.
Reverse points starting positions? Both spectacle and sport. Both completely fair, and also jazzes up the sport.
Double file restarts are both spectacle and sport. No one is trying to get rid of those.
If it is such a spectrum, than the BTCC was more spectacle than sport? Because they used success ballast. But monster jam is sport because they don't, right?
I never said I was fine with anything. I'm trying to get you to question your position. If I stated mine we could argue about that, but let's not speculate when I've said nothing to confirm that opinion.
Outside of powerplants, and some areo, we already do have spec cars.
I'm aware of what it is. It also ensures tight points battles. If you're that much faster than everyone else you should be able to prove it even with a heavier car.
I can't imagine you are arguing in good faith.
I never said that any one element had to be one or the other. Obviously there can be elements that are of both sport and spectacle in any decision or aspect of the sport. Whatever impacts those elements have are what determines ultimately how sporty or show the series will be. Those decisions ultimately place where on the spectrum the sport lies.
Reverse points would probably end up closer to one end of the sport/spectacle spectrum than the other ( but its only a small portion of what would determine where on the spectrum the sport as a whole falls)
Some people are trying to get rid of double file starts, you see complaints here all the time.
It ridiculous to ask me if BTCC or Monster Jam is more a spectacle solely based on ballast. I thought it was clear that this would be only part of a whole that would determine such things.
The engine aspect I think is quite important is separating from true spec. The aero matters as well
I haven't see any rejection of any of the artificial aspect of the sport. Silence on the matter appears to be acceptance.
Ensuring tight points battles, in my opinion, isn't a noble goal. It's artificial. My whole point in this thread. Having to "prove your faster" with weights makes no sense to me in a competitive arena
Excerpt from the press release, translated with the help of DeepL: > The Autodromo Interlagos, in São Paulo, will be the stage for the second round of the NASCAR Brazil Sprint Race, and the two races scheduled for Sunday, April 30, will generate a huge expectation, because the "Success Ballast" (extra weight) will be imposed to the leaders, an item included in the championship rules, which will remain in all rounds of the season and will follow in the following proportion: 30 kg to first place, 25 kg to second, and 20 kg to third, in each class. > The first three placed in the championship of divisions PRO, PROAM and AM, will carry this extra weight that will be added to the car by the organization, according to the championship score at the end of each round. TL;DR It works like the success ballast that BTCC used before BTCC introduced their hybrids and it'll be given to whoever sits in the top 3 of the standings for each class.
Super GT also uses the Success weight as well
I hate success ballast. The end.
Seems to work fine at your local short track. Only issue is you have to control where they put the weight.
I'm not sure I would be a fan of that if implemented for the US series. More artificially generated spectacle
I feel like one of the dirty secrets of motorsports is everyone's lowkey trying to create something close to parity. NASCAR's just the only one to do it out in the open.
WEC/IMSA literally publishes their BoP changes each week. So does Super GT and the NHRA (for Pro Modified). This is hardly a NASCAR thing.
I mean more in terms of at a global scale. Every racing series would probably love it if the racing/finishes were always close, and the championship battle always came down to the last race. NASCAR just went all-in and changed the rules to actually make it happen instead of tinkering with things that sort of might get there. That's what I mean. They ripped the band-aid off and were like "oh, we're not hiding the kind of thing we want to see." Not always for the best, but just interesting.
You literally have no idea what "Balance of Performance" is, do you?
I know what it is. I follow a bit of IMSA/sportscar racing, so it's a concept I'm familiar with. I'm just saying I feel like there's still a gulf between placing the cars in a "performance window" so to speak and insuring no one manufacturer/team gets out to a major advantage, and jumping to stage cautions/a winner-take-all finale. It was just a throwaway observation that no motorsport has gone "all-in" on trying to neutralize *all* advantages quite like NASCAR has. I'm not dismissing that BoP isn't also something along those lines.
You literally have no idea that you’re an idiot, do you?
Yes, I'm the idiot. Not the guy who claims only NASCAR openly equalizes performance. I know most NASCAR fans don't watch other motorsports but this is so easily checked. Like all the people who think NASCAR made the SAFER barriers.
It's always amazing that somebody so stupid could be so arrogant. Let me lay this out for you, it looks like you need some help. Other series make changes to the car to impact the BoP but the race itself remains mostly unchanged. OP was implying NASCAR has taken a different path. They don't hide the fact that they want to artificially equalize performance by bunching the field up to create drama and close finishes through all of their gimmicks like fathom debris cautions, ridiculous caution clocks/stage breaks, double file restarts, unlimited overtimes. Now was that explanation too many words for you or are you surprisingly capable of understanding it?
Considering this topic is about Success Ballast. That is not at all what he meant. And even if it was, that's also not true. WEC/IMSA have pit stop rules to bunch up each class, and pretty much every series, including F1 uses wave around now. NASCAR is not the only series openly balancing stuff. Period. And it's not even close.
I never said they were the only one. Just that they went further than anyone else and were kinda unashamed about it (in-race planned cautions/a championship finale that wipes out points.).. Not even as a pro/anti NASCAR statement, just an observation based on the conversation. I'm not even claiming I'm right. Just wanted to share my thoughts. And I did. So we can agree to disagree and have a good time XD. Life's too short to get riled up in an online conversation.
Do you have to be a dickhead this quickly in the replies or did they say something that just rubbed you the wrong way? Because there’s no reason for you to be a cock like that
Bro it’s just an assortment of letters on a screen no one is being a dick toughen up baby girl.
First of all I don’t know who you think you’re talking to like that but you got the wrong one. That guy started it by insulting him for no reason. So mind your business before you get yourself involved in something that you will seriously regret.
Although I've advocating success ballast as a substitute for playoffs, there were cases in Super GT where teams were manipulating finishes to get favorable success ballast. In fact, both the GT500 and GT300 champions in 2003 were both winless. (To counter this, since 2009 Super GT makes it so that the ballast is halved with two races to go and then taken out entirely for the final race - provided you start all races.)
Because race tracks and race cars are such naturally occurring phenomenon. It's all artificial. It was in the 80s and the 90s and the 00s and the 10s.
I did say even more. Im quite aware of the shenanigans the aport has implemented throughout the years. I dont want it to progress further towards it (and actually want it to go back some. You really don't see how this would shift the series even further from sport over to spectacle?
You do realize this isn't a dichotomy right? Sport and spectacle? All things considered, Success ballast isn't that wild of idea. BOP is and has been a thing in endurance racing forever, and this isn't all that far from BOP.
They sort of are. Like I eluded to earlier, It's kind of a spectrum and the series would be moving towards the one end. It's sim racing vs Mario Kart. Olympic wrestling vs WWE. I'm not saying it will instantly be the far side, but just moving down the line. It appears you are fine with that, but I prefer it to go the other direction. This isn't a BOP though. NASCAR already has utilized that, and still does with balancing aero components between manufacturers i am 100% okay with giving drivers equal equipment. Give them spec cars for all I care. This would be adding weights to slow down fast drivers. It's fake as hell.
They absolutely are not. It's not a spectrum at all. There are some things, like random starting positions that are all spectacle and no sport. Not fair in the slightest, and only there to jazz up the show. Reverse points starting positions? Both spectacle and sport. Both completely fair, and also jazzes up the sport. Double file restarts are both spectacle and sport. No one is trying to get rid of those. If it is such a spectrum, than the BTCC was more spectacle than sport? Because they used success ballast. But monster jam is sport because they don't, right? I never said I was fine with anything. I'm trying to get you to question your position. If I stated mine we could argue about that, but let's not speculate when I've said nothing to confirm that opinion. Outside of powerplants, and some areo, we already do have spec cars. I'm aware of what it is. It also ensures tight points battles. If you're that much faster than everyone else you should be able to prove it even with a heavier car.
I can't imagine you are arguing in good faith. I never said that any one element had to be one or the other. Obviously there can be elements that are of both sport and spectacle in any decision or aspect of the sport. Whatever impacts those elements have are what determines ultimately how sporty or show the series will be. Those decisions ultimately place where on the spectrum the sport lies. Reverse points would probably end up closer to one end of the sport/spectacle spectrum than the other ( but its only a small portion of what would determine where on the spectrum the sport as a whole falls) Some people are trying to get rid of double file starts, you see complaints here all the time. It ridiculous to ask me if BTCC or Monster Jam is more a spectacle solely based on ballast. I thought it was clear that this would be only part of a whole that would determine such things. The engine aspect I think is quite important is separating from true spec. The aero matters as well I haven't see any rejection of any of the artificial aspect of the sport. Silence on the matter appears to be acceptance. Ensuring tight points battles, in my opinion, isn't a noble goal. It's artificial. My whole point in this thread. Having to "prove your faster" with weights makes no sense to me in a competitive arena
If you can't imagine I'm arguing in good faith why respond?
The off chance you were.
I mean it seems ill advised for your time and honestly implies the response that will follow won't actually address any of the points I've made.
What do they drive in NASCAR Brazil? Stock cars at my favorite track is something I've only been able to do on Gran Turismo