He beat the literal shit out of Sanchez after stalking him from behind.
It's honestly no wonder why he never got to sniff a full time ride past trucks.
The fact he has 3 championships before getting to 20 wins is astounding. And one of those 3, he broke the playoff format by not even winning a race all season.
>The fact he has 3 championships before getting to 20 wins is astounding.
Not really, he just benefited from sticking around while the *good* veteran drivers left the series.
He just has to make less mistakes than the kids who make a lot of mistakes.
There's a reason Harvick kicked him out of his truck after one season...
Something went down with Crafton the year he drove for KHI. So much smoke there has to be fire. Lots of smoke about his (1st) wife and either Sadler or McMurray. Something happened that derailed his career.
I have found that whole "guy who finished top 5 in points with a ton of top 5 finishes getting canned over the offseason" a real mystery. I never fully bought that whole "well, we want wins" explanation.
People jumped to conclusions from the video and took Sanchez's family's word for the situation while conveniently ignoring Crafton's
I'm not saying Crafton didn't do wrong but it's kind of absurd that they completely dismiss Crafton's version as bs bc he's biased but then take Sanchez's side's story as if it's somehow unbiased
I think some of it is the fact that we have a book of 20 plus years of Crafton whining and excuses so it's hard to give him much slack, we don't have that same book on Sanchez. Crafton is one of those drivers where, when you think about him and you really start to dig, you can't find much good that he says about anything, whenever he's talking he's mad at someone or something.
No matter who's account you look at, it still comes down to Crafton waiting for Sanchez to finish his race before confronting him. Crafton was an idiot for acting like an immature asshole rather than doing the right thing and leave him be. He was wrong and him knows he was wrong. You'd think a vet like him would know better. I guess there's a good reason he's never moved beyond trucks.
Him coming in from behind him is
Whether he "stalked" him or there was any other interaction before the video is not documented in the video. Both sides have their versions of events and we have no clue whose is correct. My general belief in such situations is the truth is somewhere in the middle
I agree. People give Ty a lot of shit for being a "sliver spoon" kid, but most of the time, he doesn't act like it. He just kinda rides around and minds his own business.
Maybe he can put some of these young kids in their place
I think a lot of people misinterpret "Ty shouldn't replace AJ Allmendinger" with "Ty is a piece of crap driver".
He's pretty well respected off of the track by fans, peers and media. He also has a lot of experience.
It seems that the only significant manufacturer support in the truck series is from Toyota, and they're only interested in driver development deals.
The current day veterans of the Cup series don't seem to be interested in going down to trucks, probably because they don't want to race with a bunch of disrespectful shits. They'd rather go back down to late models to piddle around on their time and dime.
Grant Enfinger has been at it for a long time in trucks. I think Ty Dillon will level out in trucks. Stewart Friesen has peaked in Trucks and will likely stay in Trucks. I think Timmy Hill may level out in Trucks too.
But yes, the lack of old heads in the series is notable.
There is some Ford and GM money going around but Toyota is really funding a lot of Tricon to bing development drivers up. The Ford money is more or less spent on making deals and then letting the teams select drivers while the GM money seems to be funding diversity drivers like Sanchez and Caruth, both of whom have had to find outside funding to race.
People forget that the Busch series used to be a cheaper ticket to go see a cup race in the 2000s. Literally a dozen or more cup guys were running in those races during peak Buschwhacking era.
I totally get where Bubba is coming from…there’s just a fine line between cup guys giving lessons to younger drivers in lower series, and cup drivers stat padding in superior equipment in lower series.
In my opinion, you should be able to run as many lower series races as you want, as long as you aren’t driving for the same owner in the cup series. Ross Chastain is a great example of this, as he willingly chooses to drive shitboxes in Xfinity into the top ten for fun.
There's a difference between Martin Truex Jr and JJ Yeley running in the truck series. One would dominate the series and the other would likely just be competitive. But both are mature and veteran in the sport who could keep the younger guys in check.
Yeah but there would be no way to enforce that. Suarez is on paper driving a car for SS-Greenlight Racing in xfinity at Daytona. But it’s completely prepared by Kaulig Racing. SS-Greenlight and RSS Racing have each gotten a win in the last couple years but in both cases the car was a fully prepared SHR car with an SHR cup driver driving it. Cup teams would just run their drivers in a car under the banner of an xfinity-only team but they would be preparing the cars and they’d be as fast as if it was in their name. For instance, JGR could put Ty Gibbs or JHN in races for Sam Hunt Racing and prepare the cars themselves.
I'm not sure if divisions of purse money or sponsorship money is enforced at all or completely up to the teams to agree to but assuming the team still takes in any of that revenue its still a benefit to them and it helps the series too.
The problem these days though is that the Cup driver will still get a car prepared by the Cup affiliated team, but it'll be "sold or loaned out" to a smaller team, like Almirola winning at Sonoma last year. It was for a small team, but it was a fully prepared SHR car with a SHR pit crew.
Nothing is stopping cup guys from running in either of the lower series right now. The only reason they're not doing it is because they can't earn season points in more than one league. If their concern is truly mentoring and "raising them the right way," they'd already be doing it like Bubba is.
I think that's why the Xfinity series doesn't have that problem. You have lots of veterans in that series who have Cup experience but don't have the talent or funding for it. Trucks don't have that as much anymore likely because it doesn't pay enough
The Truck Series used to have a nice little niche identity as a mix of veterans and youngsters back in the day. It’s essentially now just ARCA racing in the shape of trucks.
I’m not sure loosening up restrictions on Cup drivers fixes this series, but it would be nice to see veterans again. Hell, I wish this series would attract more retired Cup guys as a chance to still race and compete but with a way less intense schedule. This was what Mark Martin was originally intending on doing with Roush in 2006 until they talked him into driving the 6 in Cup one more year. I still think he ended up splitting a Roush truck in 2006 that was originally intended to be his full time since those sponsorship deals were done.
On the one hand I do agree with Bubba that there needs to be a little bit more of a veteran presence in the lower ranks. On the other we don't need a return to the era where over half the field were cup folks talking up rides that could be given to younger drivers. There was a stagnation in the driver development pool.
Another person also mentioned the race director coming down hard on driving standards so that the field can get their act right.
Bubba is right but I don’t think the solution is more cup guys running more races. I wouldn’t mind some more cup guys running their 5 races a year but we don’t need to go back to the days when cup guys were winning nearly every companion race in the lower series. The main answer IMO is more veteran guys like Hornaday, Skinner, Benson, Musgrave, etc. There are drivers out there who would fit that mold if they could only find the sponsorship to be able to race full time. Brett Moffitt, Trevor Bayne, Ryan Truex, James Buescher, Matty D, etc. would make great lower series lifers if they could get full time rides in fast cars. The sponsorship is just not there for those guys. I kinda think nascar needs a program almost like drive for diversity to find sponsorship for some talented veteran drivers to sorta be the teachers of the next generation while obviously extending their careers as well.
The problem is the Cup guys were the bridge to what you're talking about. And the bridge got burned entirely.
I've had this take for years, but the season that had the perfect balance was 2017.
The rules allowed lower series guys to have their shine, but also didn't exclude veterans & Cup guys from running enough to make their presence felt.
When NASCAR overcorrected in '18 and basically banned Cup guys from earning playoff points, Owners lost any incentive to put an experienced guy in a lower division seat because it didn't count towards the Owners Championship.
Now, the first call is some inexperienced teenager instead of a Sam Hornish Jr. who basically won Penske the Xfinity Owner's championship in 2017.
Yeah I would tend to agree about 2017, though I like the current 5 race limit for cup drivers as it is now. I would just like to see more veterans racing full time in the lower series. To me, young guys learning from someone they have to race against every week and compete for a championship and playoff spot against is going to mean a lot more than learning from a cup guy who’s dropping down for a random race here and there.
That’s fair and that could also teach the next generation what not to do if you want to make it to cup and stay in cup. I think both of those guys are cup level talent. But obviously their actions away from the race track have kept them from being cup mainstays and at the moment is keeping them off track completely.
But they are still veteran drivers with a lot of talent who race with respect on the race track, while still being able to find success, which is mainly what those young guys need to learn how to do.
I miss trucks feeling like its own thing in general. Most fun I ever had watching that series was the era of the veterans like Benson, Hornaday, Hamilton, Sprague, etc. getting after each other. Made it feel different and set the standard for the younger drivers in the series. They have guys like Sauter and Crafton who on paper could serve the same purpose. But both of them are as bad if not worse about attitudes and driving. Trucks being ARCA 2: Electric Boogaloo sucks.
Bubba and Rajah were talking after the race, and Fox caught it for a but then cut away. It did not look like it was going the way Rajah thought it was going to go, maybe Bubba was giving him a talk about junking the field.
Bubba has been mentoring Rajah for a few years, so Bubba has the relationship to get on Rajah like that, but the vast majority of the Truck/Xfinity fields don’t have that.
I liked the move by Bubba assuming that's what was happening. It looked like Rajah wanted ups for finishing P3 and Bubba said, nah man, look at the carnage you created. I'm hoping Bubba can have a big year. Ready for his breakout.
You have a bunch of drivers who have no business being in the top 3 levels of NASCAR. The only reason they are there is family money, social media following, etc.
It’s not respect, it’s talent and it’s lacking.
If you want to fix the truck series, park drivers and not for a race, for 5-10 races. Tell the owners to try again with a different driver. There aren’t enough consequences for bad driving.
Cup guys or no, these series lack veterans. They've turned into true "feeder" series, when that was never supposed to be the way. Sure, you move up through the ranks if you have the talent, but we need to bring back seeing trucks and Xfinity as fine places to make a career in racing if you don't have the skills to make it in cup.
Not really a great take. The Cup guys absolutely ruined the show and pretty much tainted the development pipeline for the better part of a decade.
A better solution would be Nascar putting their big boy pants on and enforcing some driving standards. Nothing says be more careful than getting parked for driving like an idiot.
DBC touched on this last season after the awful truck race at Phoenix.
They mentioned that if Hoots was still directing races he would have started parking and sending guys to the back for doing this stupid shit
That’s all series in general. I remember in 2004 guys getting penalized multiple laps for aggressive driving. But that aggressive driving back then would go unpunished now.
The boys have at it proclamation has brought upon the disrespect. Because there’s no consequences attached.
>A better solution would be Nascar putting their big boy pants on and enforcing some driving standards. Nothing says be more careful than getting parked for driving like an idiot.
Not just NASCAR officials, but the team owners as well. Even people like Dale, Davey, and Ernie would get "the talk" earlier in their careers from car owners basically saying "you keep wrecking my cars, you're outta here!"
The difference between now and then is that teams were able to get the sponsorship, so they could do that without any repercussions. Nowadays, you tell one of the ride-buying/nepo children to shape up, they'll just ship out - and take the money with them (example: RAB Racing died a slow, painful death after not wanting to deal with attempted axe murder Jon Wes Townley anymore, and he took his Zaxby's money with him.)
I’ve been saying this for the last year or so. NASCAR should enforce driving standards in the lower series. Then by the time these guys make it to Cup they’ll be more respectful and better drivers for it
I wonder if that's exactly the direction they're gonna go in. Didn't NASCAR just build or is in the process of building a center that would allow them to have better replays for officiating? That seems like something you do if you want to make sure your calls are right.
The fact that they supposedly sat down with every driver before the truck race to communicate 'increased expectations for 2024'. Maybe that was their last shot at letting clean it up themselves.
Obviously we don't want to go back to the days of peak Buschwacking, but I do think having some kind of veteran presence in the lower series would definitely help. Doesn't have to be current Cup drivers either, there used to be a lot of former Cup guys dropping down to Trucks after their Cup opportunities dried up but not anymore- only one who fits the bill this year is Ty Dillon, Matty D was there last year but now he's gone too.
Did they taint it from 2011 onwards?
I think we were reaching a pretty good balance as the "one series" rule evolved to where even Xfinity/Truck drivers in the field were openly appreciating the limited opportunities to have Cup guys out there as measuring sticks.
But NASCAR kept cracking down on their participation to the point where Trucks is basically a high school/college series. We don't need the Busch and Keselowski types out there winning all the races. But we don't need them all but banned.
The \#60 Xfinity car arguably shut down because the only way they could actually compete within the rules was throwing three inexperienced guys in the car all year, and it was a disaster. A few years before then, you could've had some of the Roush vets combine for 10 races and then hand it off to those guys. We've gone way too far in the other direction.
> Did they taint it from 2011 onwards?
Absolutely. 2013-2018 were *far* improved compared to 2008-2012, but there's a legitimate argument for quite a bit of talent from the Xfinity pool from 2011-2016 missing out. Allgaier, James Buescher, Kligerman, and Kwasniewski are the best examples, but even guys like Cassill and Ryan Seig deserved better than what they got but the best cars were being driven by Cup guys. Reddick stands out as a guy that's probably stuck in limbo for a bit longer at minimum if Cup guys are taking more wins/rides away.
> I think we were reaching a pretty good balance as the "one series" rule evolved to where even Xfinity/Truck drivers in the field were openly appreciating the limited opportunities to have Cup guys out there as measuring sticks.
I don't think Kyle Busch races 30 Xfinity races a year even without any rules this late in his career. The rule changes arguably did less to filter out the Cup guys than the cars becoming more and more different, which got rid of the biggest reason Cup guys ran on Saturday at the peak of Buschwhacking.
Xfinity is better now than just about ever imo. I really enjoyed it growing up until about 2004, but from 2005 to around 2015, the Busch/Nationwide Series was practically unwatchable. I could predict the top 5 without even tuning in it was that bad. One time, I told my dad when he asked if I wanted to watch the race, this was around 2010ish, I said no, I already know who the top 5 will be. Sure enough, it was Ky. Busch, Logano, Edwards, Harvick, and Keselowski in the top 5, just like I figured. It was that bad. I'm glad they cracked down because from 2017 to present, it's been my favorite series.
I agree with needing driving standards (throughout all of NASCAR), but I also believe getting Cup or Cup'esque drivers in the lower Series without ruining it but also with incentives, is not only possible, but a must. No, we don't need Kyle Busch winning truck championships, but we could use drivers of high caliber in the truck Series.
I agree with Bubba on a lack of veteran drivers, but I don't agree that Cup guys should drop back down like they used to. Xfinity has been at its peak lately because the Cup guys mostly stay out. The Truck series just needs more career drivers.
The only solution forward is to enforce driving standards both from the teams and the sanctioning body. Hell, the FIA of all groups is cracking down on driver's causing red flags in F2/F3 series. And I think an F3 race was ultimately cancelled because the drivers couldn't race cleanly, if I remember correctly.
NASCAR as a sanctioning body needs to step in and enforce the driving standard because teams won't be able to with all the pay-drivers in the field, who if the teams started punishing would just leave for teams that didn't allow that behavior either.
“And tell you to get your together..
And those words would make an impression…
Some of the most important words I was told coming up thru… “stop crashing shit” -[u/KevinHarvick](https://twitter.com/KevinHarvick)
Goes back to the respect talk [@KyleBusch](https://twitter.com/KyleBusch) was saying…
Not saying cup guys need an unlimited amount again..
But there was a level of respect when those guys were in the field…
Seems like majority now don’t care about one another and just DO before they THINK.
Idk anything tho”
[https://x.com/BubbaWallace/status/1759294836371308866?s=20](https://x.com/bubbawallace/status/1759294836371308866?s=20)
[https://x.com/BubbaWallace/status/1759294839244431593?s=20](https://x.com/bubbawallace/status/1759294839244431593?s=20)
I guess the dilemma is the cup series is so much younger now you don’t have as many older veteran drivers (with the exception of Allmendinger) who would be willing to go down to the lower divisions to be a respectful veteran like Ted Musgrave, Johnny Benson, Bobby Hamilton, Todd Bodine, or Elliot Sadler were in the past.
I get where he’s coming from, but I don’t think the answer is just letting Cup guys run as many races as they want. The Xfinity series was unwatchable there for a while when you could pretty much bet on Edwards, Kyle Busch, or Keselowski winning each week.
I do think there needs to be more of a veteran presence in the lower series though. The trucks used to have guys like Hornaday, Skinner, Benson, and others that raced for years. They helped keep the series in check. The Xfinity series used to have a mix of veterans, young drivers, and sometimes you had Cup drivers. They’ve kind of gone back to that and the series has had some great races in recent years. Sure, you still have some dumb moments, but the races aren’t complete shit shows. The last two truck races have been really bad.
Smh. The LOWER series. Who cares of the cup guys are there. It's for the young guns to make a name for theirselves and work up. Not get beat up by yall
He makes a good point but LaJoie wasn’t exactly a good example of bringing a cup guy to the lower series races. Dude was arguably more aggressive most of the field.
That’s a good point and it’s why I don’t think more cup drivers racing in the lower series is the answer. Because naturally if those cup guys aren’t racing for points and are just trying to win at all costs they are going to drive more aggressively than they do in their cup cars. I think they need more veteran drivers running full seasons in the lower series so young drivers can learn how drivers race conservatively and still find success over the course of the whole season.
I mean I agree that trucks needs some more respect and racing etiquette but the part about cup drivers coming down completely falls apart when you have Lajoie who actively caused one of the big wrecks on Friday
These guys all take their brains out when the green flag drops, it’s embarrassing and painful to watch. The series needs some veteran leadership but veterans don’t stick around or go down to lower series like the Benson’s and Hornaday’s of 15-20 years ago. I think complete amateurs could’ve put on a better race than what we saw Friday night or nearly every Friday that the truck series runs.
He’s correct, but guys who hook other drivers into the wall shouldn’t be saying shit about the truck drivers running like idiots. This kind of message needs to be coming from championship contenders like Bell, Buescher, Blaney, and Byron instead of Bubba/Elliott/Chastain/Hamlin.
Those kids coming up through the ranks see their favorite drivers driving incredibly aggressive are going to be impersonating how their favorite drivers race others.
I’ve felt that NASCAR’s bullshit win and you’re in mantra that they developed with the series is going to hinder the sport and that’s exactly what’s going on.
I've watched the Caruth incident at least 5 times now. I really think that it was intentional. The claim is he got tight, but you don't get so tight that you drift up a whole lane. He was going to get freight trained, and I think he threw a temper tantrum and decided to wreck the others.
My evidence to support this: He has done this type of move on many occasions on iRacing. He gets beat and then throws a fit and starts wrecking people. I've witnessed it, no less than half a dozen times. The dude is a very dirty driver.
You're an idiot if you think he junked the field on purpose. He either got tight or tried to fill a hole that quickly closed. Trevor Bayne yesterday was on the side that Rajah got tight and that's what touched everything of.
Regardless a whole bunch of trucks got junked but sure as hell wasn't intentional.
Did Corey Lajoie have anything to say about what happened? It didn’t look like he pushed Rajah in the tri oval. I like Rajah and I think he’ll be in the 48 sooner rather than later but damn.
Edit: I guess you don’t like my 48 hot take. But you all didn’t like my Bristol dirt hot take either. So we’ll see.
Nope, he talked about it but not to point fingers "just didn't go our way" . Rajah's his teammate, doubt he's gonna badmouth regardless.
[Stacking Pennies (should start at the story start)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCOJWlZwSJE&t=326s).
The most interesting thing Lajoie talked about re: trucks was how hard they are to drive compared to cup cars. And how he thinks some of their crew chiefs might work at Walmart ha.
"[I wish the cup cars drove as bad as the trucks do".](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCOJWlZwSJE&t=580s)
So I guess maybe we should give the "disrespectful" young drivers a tiny bit more grace. Some of it might just be sincere fuckups.
Corey's take is that Rajah got tight of off two or he tried filling a gap.
Here is his interview.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHnkDWXboQw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHnkDWXboQw)
You do know Kyle Busch is considered one of the cleanest drivers by the entire garage right?
Yes, he's intentionally wrecked people, but unless he's got a reason, he is considered one of the cleanest.
You hear drivers all the time in interviews saying "I knew Kyle Busch was gonna race me clean".
Yeah but when he was young he raced a lot like what these young guys race like. He may be an example now, but he was just as bad when he was coming up through the ranks.
Hard for him to get “respect” because a lot of the lower level drivers are at or above his talent level. He’s going to their primary series, so he should be the one giving respect
I think the “win and you’re in” format along with lack of veterans is causing issues in my opinion. Drivers are willing to throw a Hail Mary to win a race if it means making the playoffs (especially at super speedways) and often that causes a wreck or an over aggressive move. A lot less give and take like back in the day which veterans can also teach.
Plenty of shitty attitude drivers came out when Cup guys were dominating those series as well, Brad, Joey, Kyle Busch all had times of being reckless and shitty and they ran Cup guys all the time, Denny even had a famous interview about it and a concrete block lol.
Issue is, a lot of these drivers aren't racecar drivers, they haven't learned the craft, they are rich kids who can buy a seat, not much you can do about it. Toni said what she said about Gus Dean, but what is she? You have boneheads like Joe Graf who cause wrecks, or you have boneheads like Hailie Deegan who can't avoid wrecks, it all adds up to a rough weekend most of the time on these plate tracks or when the stakes are high. We also don't teach kids emotional regulation anymore so there's that.
Remember when people complained when Kyle Busch, a cup series regular, was winning pretty much every Nationwide race? Remember how people hated him for that?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Need dudes like Johnny Benson, Ron Hornady and Jack Sprague back. Crafton should be a good example but he is as bad as the kids.
He beat the literal shit out of Sanchez after stalking him from behind. It's honestly no wonder why he never got to sniff a full time ride past trucks.
Well his lack of wins hasn't really helped him either
The fact he has 3 championships before getting to 20 wins is astounding. And one of those 3, he broke the playoff format by not even winning a race all season.
>The fact he has 3 championships before getting to 20 wins is astounding. Not really, he just benefited from sticking around while the *good* veteran drivers left the series. He just has to make less mistakes than the kids who make a lot of mistakes. There's a reason Harvick kicked him out of his truck after one season...
I still love that he broke the playoff format. Legend shit lol
Something went down with Crafton the year he drove for KHI. So much smoke there has to be fire. Lots of smoke about his (1st) wife and either Sadler or McMurray. Something happened that derailed his career.
I have found that whole "guy who finished top 5 in points with a ton of top 5 finishes getting canned over the offseason" a real mystery. I never fully bought that whole "well, we want wins" explanation.
Especially as it was a brand new team, hard to do better than Matt did that year
I'd love to see him in cup just to watch everyone treat him like shit and run back to trucks
What evidence was there of him stalking him from behind? Did something new come out?
People jumped to conclusions from the video and took Sanchez's family's word for the situation while conveniently ignoring Crafton's I'm not saying Crafton didn't do wrong but it's kind of absurd that they completely dismiss Crafton's version as bs bc he's biased but then take Sanchez's side's story as if it's somehow unbiased
I think some of it is the fact that we have a book of 20 plus years of Crafton whining and excuses so it's hard to give him much slack, we don't have that same book on Sanchez. Crafton is one of those drivers where, when you think about him and you really start to dig, you can't find much good that he says about anything, whenever he's talking he's mad at someone or something.
No matter who's account you look at, it still comes down to Crafton waiting for Sanchez to finish his race before confronting him. Crafton was an idiot for acting like an immature asshole rather than doing the right thing and leave him be. He was wrong and him knows he was wrong. You'd think a vet like him would know better. I guess there's a good reason he's never moved beyond trucks.
I don't dispute any of that The guy I responded to asked if there was any evidence of Crafton "stalking him from behind"
Yeah, idk about that either.
It’s on video
Him coming in from behind him is Whether he "stalked" him or there was any other interaction before the video is not documented in the video. Both sides have their versions of events and we have no clue whose is correct. My general belief in such situations is the truth is somewhere in the middle
Centrism is objectively dumb. Dude took off his firesuit to ambush the kid.
lol we are talking about a fight after a NASCAR race and you are talking about the virtue of centrism Christ almighty
The truth is almost never in the middle. It’s an objectively stupid way of approaching conflict resolution. There are facts.
Who the fuck said I'm doing conflict resolution? I'm not trying to resolve anything
I honestly think Ty Dillon could serve this role. He has to win tho.
I agree. People give Ty a lot of shit for being a "sliver spoon" kid, but most of the time, he doesn't act like it. He just kinda rides around and minds his own business. Maybe he can put some of these young kids in their place
Hes also been on both sides. He was once a 18 year old pay driver who pissed off Harvick. He can hopefully lead others down the path he's gone down.
And Harvick was once an 18-year old that pissed off veterans too. Called being 18.
I get that but everyone needs someone to show them the way.
I think a lot of people misinterpret "Ty shouldn't replace AJ Allmendinger" with "Ty is a piece of crap driver". He's pretty well respected off of the track by fans, peers and media. He also has a lot of experience.
There's some misinterpretation going on, but a lot of people do just think Ty is shit
Man, every time I see Ty I think Gibbs and was wondering what tf you're smoking.
It seems that the only significant manufacturer support in the truck series is from Toyota, and they're only interested in driver development deals. The current day veterans of the Cup series don't seem to be interested in going down to trucks, probably because they don't want to race with a bunch of disrespectful shits. They'd rather go back down to late models to piddle around on their time and dime. Grant Enfinger has been at it for a long time in trucks. I think Ty Dillon will level out in trucks. Stewart Friesen has peaked in Trucks and will likely stay in Trucks. I think Timmy Hill may level out in Trucks too. But yes, the lack of old heads in the series is notable.
There is some Ford and GM money going around but Toyota is really funding a lot of Tricon to bing development drivers up. The Ford money is more or less spent on making deals and then letting the teams select drivers while the GM money seems to be funding diversity drivers like Sanchez and Caruth, both of whom have had to find outside funding to race.
I would think at this point it would be someone like Ben Rhodes that should start showing a good example. He is going to be a truck lifer.
Crafton caused 2 big ones in the last 2 plate races by forcing it into where there was no room
He’s worse lol
Was just coming to type this lol
People forget that the Busch series used to be a cheaper ticket to go see a cup race in the 2000s. Literally a dozen or more cup guys were running in those races during peak Buschwhacking era. I totally get where Bubba is coming from…there’s just a fine line between cup guys giving lessons to younger drivers in lower series, and cup drivers stat padding in superior equipment in lower series. In my opinion, you should be able to run as many lower series races as you want, as long as you aren’t driving for the same owner in the cup series. Ross Chastain is a great example of this, as he willingly chooses to drive shitboxes in Xfinity into the top ten for fun.
There's a difference between Martin Truex Jr and JJ Yeley running in the truck series. One would dominate the series and the other would likely just be competitive. But both are mature and veteran in the sport who could keep the younger guys in check.
With a good truck I'd give Yeley a chance at the Final 4.
Yeah but there would be no way to enforce that. Suarez is on paper driving a car for SS-Greenlight Racing in xfinity at Daytona. But it’s completely prepared by Kaulig Racing. SS-Greenlight and RSS Racing have each gotten a win in the last couple years but in both cases the car was a fully prepared SHR car with an SHR cup driver driving it. Cup teams would just run their drivers in a car under the banner of an xfinity-only team but they would be preparing the cars and they’d be as fast as if it was in their name. For instance, JGR could put Ty Gibbs or JHN in races for Sam Hunt Racing and prepare the cars themselves.
That’s the first thing that popped to mind. Oh no, this isn’t a (insert cup team) car. It’s my car my team set up ^thanks ^to ^cup ^team.
I'm not sure if divisions of purse money or sponsorship money is enforced at all or completely up to the teams to agree to but assuming the team still takes in any of that revenue its still a benefit to them and it helps the series too.
SS-Greenlight is just a clearinghouse for whatever cup team will write a check. That’s why they seemingly switch manufacturers every year
The problem these days though is that the Cup driver will still get a car prepared by the Cup affiliated team, but it'll be "sold or loaned out" to a smaller team, like Almirola winning at Sonoma last year. It was for a small team, but it was a fully prepared SHR car with a SHR pit crew.
Nothing is stopping cup guys from running in either of the lower series right now. The only reason they're not doing it is because they can't earn season points in more than one league. If their concern is truly mentoring and "raising them the right way," they'd already be doing it like Bubba is.
I do miss that.
Limit what series the crew me,bets can crew cars in, that will change a lot.
My issue always with the cup guys is Busch is they did it with cup teams and they drove out the true Busch series teams .
The lower series should be 100% spec series, then it wouldn't matter how many races or who they drive for
I think that's why the Xfinity series doesn't have that problem. You have lots of veterans in that series who have Cup experience but don't have the talent or funding for it. Trucks don't have that as much anymore likely because it doesn't pay enough
The Truck Series used to have a nice little niche identity as a mix of veterans and youngsters back in the day. It’s essentially now just ARCA racing in the shape of trucks. I’m not sure loosening up restrictions on Cup drivers fixes this series, but it would be nice to see veterans again. Hell, I wish this series would attract more retired Cup guys as a chance to still race and compete but with a way less intense schedule. This was what Mark Martin was originally intending on doing with Roush in 2006 until they talked him into driving the 6 in Cup one more year. I still think he ended up splitting a Roush truck in 2006 that was originally intended to be his full time since those sponsorship deals were done.
On the one hand I do agree with Bubba that there needs to be a little bit more of a veteran presence in the lower ranks. On the other we don't need a return to the era where over half the field were cup folks talking up rides that could be given to younger drivers. There was a stagnation in the driver development pool. Another person also mentioned the race director coming down hard on driving standards so that the field can get their act right.
Bubba is right but I don’t think the solution is more cup guys running more races. I wouldn’t mind some more cup guys running their 5 races a year but we don’t need to go back to the days when cup guys were winning nearly every companion race in the lower series. The main answer IMO is more veteran guys like Hornaday, Skinner, Benson, Musgrave, etc. There are drivers out there who would fit that mold if they could only find the sponsorship to be able to race full time. Brett Moffitt, Trevor Bayne, Ryan Truex, James Buescher, Matty D, etc. would make great lower series lifers if they could get full time rides in fast cars. The sponsorship is just not there for those guys. I kinda think nascar needs a program almost like drive for diversity to find sponsorship for some talented veteran drivers to sorta be the teachers of the next generation while obviously extending their careers as well.
The problem is the Cup guys were the bridge to what you're talking about. And the bridge got burned entirely. I've had this take for years, but the season that had the perfect balance was 2017. The rules allowed lower series guys to have their shine, but also didn't exclude veterans & Cup guys from running enough to make their presence felt. When NASCAR overcorrected in '18 and basically banned Cup guys from earning playoff points, Owners lost any incentive to put an experienced guy in a lower division seat because it didn't count towards the Owners Championship. Now, the first call is some inexperienced teenager instead of a Sam Hornish Jr. who basically won Penske the Xfinity Owner's championship in 2017.
Yeah I would tend to agree about 2017, though I like the current 5 race limit for cup drivers as it is now. I would just like to see more veterans racing full time in the lower series. To me, young guys learning from someone they have to race against every week and compete for a championship and playoff spot against is going to mean a lot more than learning from a cup guy who’s dropping down for a random race here and there.
Brett and Matt are literally the poster child of how to screw up a lifer career OFF the track
That’s fair and that could also teach the next generation what not to do if you want to make it to cup and stay in cup. I think both of those guys are cup level talent. But obviously their actions away from the race track have kept them from being cup mainstays and at the moment is keeping them off track completely. But they are still veteran drivers with a lot of talent who race with respect on the race track, while still being able to find success, which is mainly what those young guys need to learn how to do.
Oh boy the fans keep latching onto it.
I miss trucks feeling like its own thing in general. Most fun I ever had watching that series was the era of the veterans like Benson, Hornaday, Hamilton, Sprague, etc. getting after each other. Made it feel different and set the standard for the younger drivers in the series. They have guys like Sauter and Crafton who on paper could serve the same purpose. But both of them are as bad if not worse about attitudes and driving. Trucks being ARCA 2: Electric Boogaloo sucks.
Force the pay drivers to fix their shit they tear up.
That's actually a thing in sports car ranks.
Bubba and Rajah were talking after the race, and Fox caught it for a but then cut away. It did not look like it was going the way Rajah thought it was going to go, maybe Bubba was giving him a talk about junking the field.
Bubba has been mentoring Rajah for a few years, so Bubba has the relationship to get on Rajah like that, but the vast majority of the Truck/Xfinity fields don’t have that.
I liked the move by Bubba assuming that's what was happening. It looked like Rajah wanted ups for finishing P3 and Bubba said, nah man, look at the carnage you created. I'm hoping Bubba can have a big year. Ready for his breakout.
Yea looked like Rajah wanted fist bump or handshake and Bubba turned him around and looked like he was going scold him. Damn did he junk that field.
You have a bunch of drivers who have no business being in the top 3 levels of NASCAR. The only reason they are there is family money, social media following, etc. It’s not respect, it’s talent and it’s lacking. If you want to fix the truck series, park drivers and not for a race, for 5-10 races. Tell the owners to try again with a different driver. There aren’t enough consequences for bad driving.
Cup guys or no, these series lack veterans. They've turned into true "feeder" series, when that was never supposed to be the way. Sure, you move up through the ranks if you have the talent, but we need to bring back seeing trucks and Xfinity as fine places to make a career in racing if you don't have the skills to make it in cup.
Not really a great take. The Cup guys absolutely ruined the show and pretty much tainted the development pipeline for the better part of a decade. A better solution would be Nascar putting their big boy pants on and enforcing some driving standards. Nothing says be more careful than getting parked for driving like an idiot.
DBC touched on this last season after the awful truck race at Phoenix. They mentioned that if Hoots was still directing races he would have started parking and sending guys to the back for doing this stupid shit
That’s all series in general. I remember in 2004 guys getting penalized multiple laps for aggressive driving. But that aggressive driving back then would go unpunished now. The boys have at it proclamation has brought upon the disrespect. Because there’s no consequences attached.
I cant even fathom the NBA being like "Yeah police yourselves no more refs". That is essentially what they did.
People would get held multiple laps for "aggressive driving". Not just for wrecking or hitting someone, but simply for being too aggressive.
Who is the director now?
>A better solution would be Nascar putting their big boy pants on and enforcing some driving standards. Nothing says be more careful than getting parked for driving like an idiot. Not just NASCAR officials, but the team owners as well. Even people like Dale, Davey, and Ernie would get "the talk" earlier in their careers from car owners basically saying "you keep wrecking my cars, you're outta here!" The difference between now and then is that teams were able to get the sponsorship, so they could do that without any repercussions. Nowadays, you tell one of the ride-buying/nepo children to shape up, they'll just ship out - and take the money with them (example: RAB Racing died a slow, painful death after not wanting to deal with attempted axe murder Jon Wes Townley anymore, and he took his Zaxby's money with him.)
I’ve been saying this for the last year or so. NASCAR should enforce driving standards in the lower series. Then by the time these guys make it to Cup they’ll be more respectful and better drivers for it
I wonder if that's exactly the direction they're gonna go in. Didn't NASCAR just build or is in the process of building a center that would allow them to have better replays for officiating? That seems like something you do if you want to make sure your calls are right. The fact that they supposedly sat down with every driver before the truck race to communicate 'increased expectations for 2024'. Maybe that was their last shot at letting clean it up themselves.
Obviously we don't want to go back to the days of peak Buschwacking, but I do think having some kind of veteran presence in the lower series would definitely help. Doesn't have to be current Cup drivers either, there used to be a lot of former Cup guys dropping down to Trucks after their Cup opportunities dried up but not anymore- only one who fits the bill this year is Ty Dillon, Matty D was there last year but now he's gone too.
Did they taint it from 2011 onwards? I think we were reaching a pretty good balance as the "one series" rule evolved to where even Xfinity/Truck drivers in the field were openly appreciating the limited opportunities to have Cup guys out there as measuring sticks. But NASCAR kept cracking down on their participation to the point where Trucks is basically a high school/college series. We don't need the Busch and Keselowski types out there winning all the races. But we don't need them all but banned. The \#60 Xfinity car arguably shut down because the only way they could actually compete within the rules was throwing three inexperienced guys in the car all year, and it was a disaster. A few years before then, you could've had some of the Roush vets combine for 10 races and then hand it off to those guys. We've gone way too far in the other direction.
> Did they taint it from 2011 onwards? Absolutely. 2013-2018 were *far* improved compared to 2008-2012, but there's a legitimate argument for quite a bit of talent from the Xfinity pool from 2011-2016 missing out. Allgaier, James Buescher, Kligerman, and Kwasniewski are the best examples, but even guys like Cassill and Ryan Seig deserved better than what they got but the best cars were being driven by Cup guys. Reddick stands out as a guy that's probably stuck in limbo for a bit longer at minimum if Cup guys are taking more wins/rides away. > I think we were reaching a pretty good balance as the "one series" rule evolved to where even Xfinity/Truck drivers in the field were openly appreciating the limited opportunities to have Cup guys out there as measuring sticks. I don't think Kyle Busch races 30 Xfinity races a year even without any rules this late in his career. The rule changes arguably did less to filter out the Cup guys than the cars becoming more and more different, which got rid of the biggest reason Cup guys ran on Saturday at the peak of Buschwhacking.
Xfinity is better now than just about ever imo. I really enjoyed it growing up until about 2004, but from 2005 to around 2015, the Busch/Nationwide Series was practically unwatchable. I could predict the top 5 without even tuning in it was that bad. One time, I told my dad when he asked if I wanted to watch the race, this was around 2010ish, I said no, I already know who the top 5 will be. Sure enough, it was Ky. Busch, Logano, Edwards, Harvick, and Keselowski in the top 5, just like I figured. It was that bad. I'm glad they cracked down because from 2017 to present, it's been my favorite series.
This is the correct take
I agree with needing driving standards (throughout all of NASCAR), but I also believe getting Cup or Cup'esque drivers in the lower Series without ruining it but also with incentives, is not only possible, but a must. No, we don't need Kyle Busch winning truck championships, but we could use drivers of high caliber in the truck Series.
I think a mix of both would work well, add some vets who won't dominate completely and start parking young bucks until they figure out their shit out.
I agree with Bubba on a lack of veteran drivers, but I don't agree that Cup guys should drop back down like they used to. Xfinity has been at its peak lately because the Cup guys mostly stay out. The Truck series just needs more career drivers.
The only solution forward is to enforce driving standards both from the teams and the sanctioning body. Hell, the FIA of all groups is cracking down on driver's causing red flags in F2/F3 series. And I think an F3 race was ultimately cancelled because the drivers couldn't race cleanly, if I remember correctly. NASCAR as a sanctioning body needs to step in and enforce the driving standard because teams won't be able to with all the pay-drivers in the field, who if the teams started punishing would just leave for teams that didn't allow that behavior either.
“And tell you to get your together.. And those words would make an impression… Some of the most important words I was told coming up thru… “stop crashing shit” -[u/KevinHarvick](https://twitter.com/KevinHarvick) Goes back to the respect talk [@KyleBusch](https://twitter.com/KyleBusch) was saying… Not saying cup guys need an unlimited amount again.. But there was a level of respect when those guys were in the field… Seems like majority now don’t care about one another and just DO before they THINK. Idk anything tho” [https://x.com/BubbaWallace/status/1759294836371308866?s=20](https://x.com/bubbawallace/status/1759294836371308866?s=20) [https://x.com/BubbaWallace/status/1759294839244431593?s=20](https://x.com/bubbawallace/status/1759294839244431593?s=20)
I guess the dilemma is the cup series is so much younger now you don’t have as many older veteran drivers (with the exception of Allmendinger) who would be willing to go down to the lower divisions to be a respectful veteran like Ted Musgrave, Johnny Benson, Bobby Hamilton, Todd Bodine, or Elliot Sadler were in the past.
I get where he’s coming from, but I don’t think the answer is just letting Cup guys run as many races as they want. The Xfinity series was unwatchable there for a while when you could pretty much bet on Edwards, Kyle Busch, or Keselowski winning each week. I do think there needs to be more of a veteran presence in the lower series though. The trucks used to have guys like Hornaday, Skinner, Benson, and others that raced for years. They helped keep the series in check. The Xfinity series used to have a mix of veterans, young drivers, and sometimes you had Cup drivers. They’ve kind of gone back to that and the series has had some great races in recent years. Sure, you still have some dumb moments, but the races aren’t complete shit shows. The last two truck races have been really bad.
Smh. The LOWER series. Who cares of the cup guys are there. It's for the young guns to make a name for theirselves and work up. Not get beat up by yall
He makes a good point but LaJoie wasn’t exactly a good example of bringing a cup guy to the lower series races. Dude was arguably more aggressive most of the field.
That’s a good point and it’s why I don’t think more cup drivers racing in the lower series is the answer. Because naturally if those cup guys aren’t racing for points and are just trying to win at all costs they are going to drive more aggressively than they do in their cup cars. I think they need more veteran drivers running full seasons in the lower series so young drivers can learn how drivers race conservatively and still find success over the course of the whole season.
I mean I agree that trucks needs some more respect and racing etiquette but the part about cup drivers coming down completely falls apart when you have Lajoie who actively caused one of the big wrecks on Friday
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That was Todd Bodine's nickname, maybe that's what he was trying to do?
These guys all take their brains out when the green flag drops, it’s embarrassing and painful to watch. The series needs some veteran leadership but veterans don’t stick around or go down to lower series like the Benson’s and Hornaday’s of 15-20 years ago. I think complete amateurs could’ve put on a better race than what we saw Friday night or nearly every Friday that the truck series runs.
He’s correct, but guys who hook other drivers into the wall shouldn’t be saying shit about the truck drivers running like idiots. This kind of message needs to be coming from championship contenders like Bell, Buescher, Blaney, and Byron instead of Bubba/Elliott/Chastain/Hamlin. Those kids coming up through the ranks see their favorite drivers driving incredibly aggressive are going to be impersonating how their favorite drivers race others. I’ve felt that NASCAR’s bullshit win and you’re in mantra that they developed with the series is going to hinder the sport and that’s exactly what’s going on.
I've watched the Caruth incident at least 5 times now. I really think that it was intentional. The claim is he got tight, but you don't get so tight that you drift up a whole lane. He was going to get freight trained, and I think he threw a temper tantrum and decided to wreck the others. My evidence to support this: He has done this type of move on many occasions on iRacing. He gets beat and then throws a fit and starts wrecking people. I've witnessed it, no less than half a dozen times. The dude is a very dirty driver.
You're an idiot if you think he junked the field on purpose. He either got tight or tried to fill a hole that quickly closed. Trevor Bayne yesterday was on the side that Rajah got tight and that's what touched everything of. Regardless a whole bunch of trucks got junked but sure as hell wasn't intentional.
Did Corey Lajoie have anything to say about what happened? It didn’t look like he pushed Rajah in the tri oval. I like Rajah and I think he’ll be in the 48 sooner rather than later but damn. Edit: I guess you don’t like my 48 hot take. But you all didn’t like my Bristol dirt hot take either. So we’ll see.
Nope, he talked about it but not to point fingers "just didn't go our way" . Rajah's his teammate, doubt he's gonna badmouth regardless. [Stacking Pennies (should start at the story start)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCOJWlZwSJE&t=326s). The most interesting thing Lajoie talked about re: trucks was how hard they are to drive compared to cup cars. And how he thinks some of their crew chiefs might work at Walmart ha. "[I wish the cup cars drove as bad as the trucks do".](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCOJWlZwSJE&t=580s) So I guess maybe we should give the "disrespectful" young drivers a tiny bit more grace. Some of it might just be sincere fuckups.
Wait, you think Rajah will be in the HMS 48? God a fucking hope not.
Ya I do unfortunately. Just my opinion but I don’t know shit.
Corey's take is that Rajah got tight of off two or he tried filling a gap. Here is his interview. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHnkDWXboQw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHnkDWXboQw)
Corey did an episode of his podcast afterwards and didn’t have anything negative to say about Rajah or that wreck in particular.
Bubba is 100% right
Harvick and Busch aren’t the guys I’d be referencing.
You do know Kyle Busch is considered one of the cleanest drivers by the entire garage right? Yes, he's intentionally wrecked people, but unless he's got a reason, he is considered one of the cleanest. You hear drivers all the time in interviews saying "I knew Kyle Busch was gonna race me clean".
Also people's reputations can change. That incident was over 10 years ago.
Yeah but when he was young he raced a lot like what these young guys race like. He may be an example now, but he was just as bad when he was coming up through the ranks.
Bubba of all people talking about lack of respect 🥴
Nice flair
Hard for him to get “respect” because a lot of the lower level drivers are at or above his talent level. He’s going to their primary series, so he should be the one giving respect
Is this why he was talking to Rajah after the race? Did anyone see that? It looked a little heated
Bubba is his mentor
I think the “win and you’re in” format along with lack of veterans is causing issues in my opinion. Drivers are willing to throw a Hail Mary to win a race if it means making the playoffs (especially at super speedways) and often that causes a wreck or an over aggressive move. A lot less give and take like back in the day which veterans can also teach.
This might be the best take I’ve heard from a cup driver in some time.
Plenty of shitty attitude drivers came out when Cup guys were dominating those series as well, Brad, Joey, Kyle Busch all had times of being reckless and shitty and they ran Cup guys all the time, Denny even had a famous interview about it and a concrete block lol. Issue is, a lot of these drivers aren't racecar drivers, they haven't learned the craft, they are rich kids who can buy a seat, not much you can do about it. Toni said what she said about Gus Dean, but what is she? You have boneheads like Joe Graf who cause wrecks, or you have boneheads like Hailie Deegan who can't avoid wrecks, it all adds up to a rough weekend most of the time on these plate tracks or when the stakes are high. We also don't teach kids emotional regulation anymore so there's that.
Remember when people complained when Kyle Busch, a cup series regular, was winning pretty much every Nationwide race? Remember how people hated him for that? Pepperidge Farm remembers.