Personally, I would love of debt forced you into 'low-tier' or '-1' apartments in an awful area. Would be a way to create RP in a new area and incentive getting out of debt so you could wake up other places
damn thats actually a good idea i really like that. somewhere super shitty like the abandoned motel in sandy or where the money run local is (but obv not there, just somewhere similar)
Something like this would’ve been fine if it was implemented at the start of 4.0 but introducing a change that is as monumental as this now is a bit hard for certain people to operate around. I personally like the system but it’s fucked over a few great characters.
Still would be an issue for characters like James randal and the clowns, who operate on the "Do it for the RP" and accept whatever charges/fines come from it. Im like 50/50 in agreement for this as on 1 hand it causes issues for characters like this, but on the other hand it prevents people going for the world record negative bank account like dundee in 3.0, and just paying for everything in cash.
If you think the clowns don’t give people RP I’d encourage you to skim through Kirk and/or Chatterbox’s vod from yesterday. Nearly everyone they spoke to about debtor’s prison expressed some type of interest in helping them out. Queenie straight up sent Kirk 35k to get him out of debt and told twinkles she’d send chatty 100k. You don’t get that type of positive response if people don’t enjoy your RP.
I can see it from both sides. NoPixel IS very MMO-stylish in it's ways these days, and that is what get many people 'addicted', and wanna keep on playing, because they have that one goal to aim for.
But at the same time, it leaves the actual pure RP'ers in the dust. This server is not really for that type of players any longer.
Pure RP wouldn’t need mechanics like money at all. Any mechanical limitation on creativity is anti-RP. However, that’s just not really possible when you have thousands of players on a server.
In my opinion, making debt matter to the point that it forces your character to grind is prison is prioritizing realism over everything. To the detriment of both content and RP. It doesn’t promote either one and actually works against them both.
Server mechanics kind of enforce the RP. It'd be like saying police disallowing crime and court cases 'limit creativity'. Consequences are important to roleplay as having risk when you do something dangerous/exciting.
Consequences are only important when people aren’t willing to give their character consequences for the story. I already acknowledged a pure RP environment isn’t going to exist on a server with more than a few people. If everyone was committed to doing their part in telling a story, like a play, improv show, or movie, you wouldn’t need consequence mechanics at all.
man, you'd think with so many great RPers stuck in jail and not a lot of mechanics they'd be able to create great RP scenarios. as you say mechanics only limit RP, so the RP in jail should be almost unboundless so what's the issue?
I was being snarky but tbh Carmine is living proof that jail RP can be fun. Now imagine if jail gangs were a thing again. I may be naive but I think jail has a massive potential for great RP storylines and this change may help jail to have a more steady population since lifer queue is enabled once again too.
They actually are not important whatsoever and I challenge you to try to validate that point. Every time I hear people insist on consequences, it's usually just trying to force certain people's character decisions to basically not be allowed by server mechanics, and I don't see a lot of great and exciting things coming out of it. There's nothing exciting about being stuck in jail longer.
Do you understand what RP is? The goal of RP, especially content-driven RP on a private server, isn’t to just get the most money by any means possible. That’s not winning. It’s about interacting with other characters, telling stories, being entertaining.
Yes. The RPers that are primarily against it play characters that can be largely characterized as comedic, non-serious and in some cases shit-lordy. PD rarely catches even these non-serious characters and the fines really aren't that bad in terms of time needed to pay them in the rare chance they are apprehended. After almost 6 months of racking up fines it might seem like its a big grind to get out of debt but if they were to 0 out their balance each time after getting caught rather than continuing to go further negative it wouldn't be all that much time.
As long as there is some sort of forgiveness from already acquired debts I think people will find they were blowing things out of proportion. If this was in at the start of 4.0 I doubt there would be many complaints.
Except actual pure RPers are now severely punished with actual prison. Debtors dont impact the function of RP or the server at all, why punish it? They're already punished with debt. So I guess in two months the James Randel and Chatterbox sani crew starts... oi...
James Randel barely has any debt, the only outstanding case I can think of is Chatterbox. Let's be honest, it's very unlikely that he would spend several days in there without any devs/players intervening. People don't have the facts and are having a gut reaction to something that just released.
But they knew very well about his debt before introducing this and did nothing. Something might be done but probably only because Crane has been shit upon for hours over it.
I understand that. But it's a bad precedent to punish the few and not all.
>Let's be honest, it's very unlikely that he would spend several days in there without any devs/players intervening.
EDIT: included the quote I was responding to.
before this what was the punishment for debt? Remember this "actual prison" is ran by carmine. They already said DOC can reduce time. ( rp>grinding prison jobs) I doubt the good rp'ers will be affecte. To be honest I'm looking forward to the rp
There shouldnt be punishment for debt. IRL, at least in the US you cant go to prison for debt unless it's taxes, child support or court ordered payback. And now their RP is dictated by other individuals (which Carmine or Dog Town will act in good faith, I'm sure, they're good peeps)
I get what your trying to say but know you are taking those pure Roleplayers who could care less about robbing banks cleaning money etc and basically telling them they have to do some sort of mechanic to earn money or face the debt of prison consequences. People like the clowns and James Randal who never did jobs to make cash now have to
No they don't, once the one time bulk of the debt is gone they're going to get the same time in prison that every other criminal will get when they get caught.
The play style these characters use involves often doing crimes that don’t benefit their characters but are funny/entertaining for everyone involved. As a result they rack up charges at crazy rates and they take it because it’s worth it for the RP. There’s no way for them to make anywhere near enough money to cover how much debt they are regularly going into from those charges without a shit ton of grinding.
If it's worth the RP then I'm sure they're capable of making great RP with the DoC. Trust the roleplayers and let things play out before you doom and gloom about it.
This is more and more turning into a MMO and nor a RP server. New Admins and Owners or whoever makes these changes all i see is Veteran RPers already on Variety and Big streamers "who arent stuck in gtarp as a career" playing less and less.
Totally true that since sometime in 3.0 NP has become grind central. Also true that sometime in 3.0 everyone stopped giving a shit about repercussions. SBS is fun, but there's dozens of examples of how SBS goes wrong or fucks things up for people who like serious RP.
I actually think getting caught *should* suck. It should be a threat. You shouldn't laugh it off and mock cops and their punishments. Otherwise, what is the point of police anyway? To play tag?
The fact that many prominent people have built entire characters around ignoring a major RP element of the server is a bigger problem, imo.
100% agree with you. There should be a threat of consequences for doing crime/breaking the law if you're caught in order to make the stakes higher.
And honestly people are always so fucking negative right off the bat it's insane, if certain things aren't working within the system and it needs to be changed then it *can* be changed. But at least let them try some new things and see what works and what doesn't.
that is exactly what it is though, how many crime streamers go back into chases for the cops because they know it is content and they get higher viewership from it... I am not a fan of constant sbs characters and am for the change but I do agree with what others have said in this thread, that it should've been implemented from the start.
The problem is people that are in gangs but are debt crims, they just use their friends' super cars and house etc. So them shooting cops to save the rest of the boys literally doesnt matter to them, they swap characters/log off when they get to jail anyway so longer times dont fix this.
In essence its a way to prevent powergaming/ignoring mechanics
I think that is part of the consequences for sure but it still doesn't incentive characters to get out of or find a means to get out of debt it seems.
At least this provides a way to get out of debt if you are a charcater without outside support. It's just that it's maybe tuned a little low currently as it's just been implemented. I'm sure it'll get changed if there are issues.
Should literally just be an option to get out of debt instead of forcebly doing it to you. RP court system could allow debtors to essentially get sent to prison to work off your debt and could even be a timeframe the player chooses so maybe they know they have no one around, fuck it send me to dogtown and do some stuff to widdle it down.
James Randall, chatterbox, and others are enjoyable to have around the server and it will suck seeing them essentially having to either conform to grinding or just make new toons. Nopixel has preached about being content, allow the people that are the content creators some slack and give them the option to do this, not a forceable action.
Now say if you are in debt, you shouldnt be able to own a car, house, or other assets that are 'traceable' to you as the owner and no one can buy something for you then transfer to you to claim said ownership... or allow it but if the courts notice they have no money and have assets, they just send people to claim it back
so what stops someone from being in debt, giving all of their money to someone to buy a car and store it in a shared house like what several debt characters did in 3.0?
It'll only be long the first time, per incident times won't be very long. If you include the DOC forgiveness and the changes that are supposed to be occuring later tonight it won't be long at all unless you have chatterbox levels of debt, and there is already a plan to reduce his significantly in the near future.
Reed is currently in prison and assuming you can earn $1k every 15 minutes it’ll take him 50 hours of tedious grinding to get out, no DOC when he’s online. And he was only getting $200 as opposed to the $1k Crane is claiming.
Worst case is we’re going to lose some great characters as they can’t work off their debt in a reasonable time. With a long prison sentence you can sleep it off but this you have to be grinding all the time.
Nothing you said has anything to do with what I said, this is just more of the wierd doom everyone has when anything changes ever. Arrangements have already been made for Reed, and the Devs were litterally in his chat to work out better tuning for how long this will take
its a content server not an rp server. some peoples content might be realistic to some and others might not be something different. Their will always be a loop hole to get around things, can't fix that unless they want to change the whole servers ideology
It's more than that, the abuse of debt was so bad in 3.0 it was 1. negatively effecting the economy because people would pull millions out of thin air to buy supercars and houses and 2. there were criminals that used debt as a ticket to commit crime consequence-free. It was the cop shooting that got particularly bad and toxic - people would shoot cops, got to jail, get out and shoot more cops with no way for the PD to stop them or fight back.
The problem was state backed loans not the debt itself..
If people give out a loan and they cant pay, they need to garnish your wages not just put you into debt.
GTARP is primarily cops and crims. Many of the people that did that were criminals that didn't have a legal job the state could track and garnish the wages of.
If they cant garnish wages then they shoudnt get the money....
The goverment should never be able to force yo to go into debt, if you dont have the money you dont need to take a loan out to go into debt. And if a company loans you money that you never plan on paying back then that is a problem for that company.
It should be that you have outstanding fines for each crime you did commit and all your property should be seized untill they are paid.
**IF people get a clean slate**, I can see it being a good change:
You spend a little extra time in prison, do the same tasks you used to do, gain money for them now, also gain money to roleplay with the wardens of the prison, and in the end gets out of jail with no dept. So no grinding outside of jail to clear dept.
Meaning, if you are on the negatives, you gain more money in jail than out of jail doing grinder jobs.
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The problem is this wasn't implemented day 1 in NP 4.0, so they let people accumulate dept. And then dropped it with no communication whatsoever until nathankb\_ explained it OOC. Because trying to explain it IC also didn't make much sense for an OOC problem.
But I'm optimistic about it now. Still hoping for the clean slate though.
To be fair Michael simone tried explaining it in character to a few people as a legislation. The ones he explained it to either didn't understand it or weren't to keen on the idea as there isn't much else to do other than grind which isn't fun for them
same here. this debt thing is shutting down people that cause people to laugh with the craziness they bring to the server. its pretty much like banning them. either you change who your character is or you are shut down.
Bro got that debt making jokes, like a bunch of counts of adoption fraud which doesn’t even happen anymore and sbs shit, it’s not supposed to be taken serious. Now the debt system was dropped without him knowing and he’s now fucked, I’m sure if he knew from the start he wouldn’t have done those jokes but he was running off a system that worked through all of 3.0
This server alone is everyone stand in a circle for 5 hours a day handing npcs weed to clean and be stuck with 4 people at a time endlessly on the back of a garbage truck or endlessly in a tow vehicle. They seem to be non stop making this a MMO and not a place to RP and make connections and stories.
Look at all the HQ changes thay killed hundreds of stroylines and essentially screwed anyone who isn't in the big 5 groups at ever doing anything since the big 5 will always buy the jobs and the cool downs make it to only hit these things a few times a server it literally takes away so many opportunities and makes more grind.
James Randal videos is what brought me and many others to watch Nopixel. Without characters like him, Adam, Leo, Chatterbox and many others, it may be harder to get people to watch.
The only way this isn't one of the worst choices in 4.0 history is to effectively wipe everyone's debt, and even then it will stop a lot of funny and fuck it RP.
If they aren't willing to wipe everyone's debt then creators should just mass perma because someone like chatter box would be in prison forever so it would be a perma regardless.
Seems like a dog shit change to me, who does this even benefit? Is it to make a level playing field for those who put in work grinding and those who don't so the ones without money get equally punished? It's a change that will only incentivize sweatiness and grinding and disincentive doing dumb fun shit. If they feel like there's too much crime and they want to curtail it why not just increase times for everyone instead of forcing certain people to grind to get out of prison? Like Spaceboy said it just punishes a certain style of roleplay which some people call "shitlords". The same people who drive around in a circle all day not playing a character talking about their uber eats orders (the actual shitlords).
Its literally day 1 of the new mechanic and it should be apparent that James Randall, Chatterbox and clowns are not the primary target of this change. Things will be tuned and fixed accordingly, but its to discourage gangs rolling around in millions of debt while keeping luxury cars in shared garage. It fixes not just the economy but also the pacing. Am sure the creative minds like Spaceboy and Chatterbox along with the mayor support can come to an IC workaround if the devs don't end up dealing with it.
Sure it doesn't make sense IC, but OOC this is a server health issue. This mechanic is new and Chatterbox amassed most of his debt shitlording around the adoption fraud legislation which was later repealed. So does NP send Chatterbox to life prison or adjust and allow some wiggle room to one of the rp centered groups? Considering Crane reached out to Chatterbox, think the answer is obvious.
I think Chatterbox could easily go to court and argue this is a retroactive application of law to his pre-existing debt, and a violation of basic legal principles. Spaceboy could RP out a settlement negotiation with the state to forgive Chatterbox's debts after making a certain amount of payment (like IRL debt to the IRS, or bankruptcy court), negotiate a payment plan, and then run a period of "desperate Chatterbox" running clown fundraisers and begging for money to hit the payment goals or he has to go to prison. In fact, he could probably get enough to pay the payments AND scam a bit extra for himself after paying the settlement.
A little RP effort and being open to a different story direction usually solves almost everything.
Blame the people abusing being in debt. Fines aren’t that bad and people are hardly arrested lately. As long as you’re not stealing civ guns or killing cops fines aren’t that bad.
You clearly have never actually watched any of the clowns streams. They literally call the cops on themselves and if they escape, they ping the cops to come start the chase again. They go to jail regularly. They literally are just trying to create fun RP for everyone.
They aren't abusing debt. They are literally trying to make sure everyone on the server has fun.
On a content server, shouldn't content be the priority, not enforcing game mechanics?
I totally agree with you.You can work off the debt , carmine and Bobby can also take debt off as well for good behavior(good rp). If you aren't raking up 6 figure fines it's fine and pretty fair in my opinion.
I really hope they push more DOC ASAP. I feel like it should've been done prior to this change. AU/EU is lucky if they see one DOC on any given day so it's basically a coinflip if DOC can reduce debt/time for good behavior anywhere outside of NA.
Overall good DOC change because it incentivizes RP but its currently bad because of the lack of preparation IC prior to this change.
I never really thought about Pred becoming DOC or something of those sorts but yeah, you're right. I think Pred would be really good in some sorta role within the prison
If only Carmine would be able to hire whoever he wants, he could literally give them keys to leave prison in exchange for them doing some SBS missions from time to time.
I think it is better for roleplay. It is sort of a soft cooldown to keep people from instantly committing crimes when they come out of jail. Should also help the PD so things don’t get chaotic, dog town also gets more roleplay. And maybe make these people feel more real in the world? You expect these type of characters to either be in jail for long or try to adapt and work around it.
But I wouldn’t be surprised if things get adjusted, system just got added and they can always change it.
Trying to make RP different by creating longer jail sequences is the same as saying "we hate that you RP this way and we are in character banning you for RPing this way." It's no deeper than that and it's not fun whatsoever to engage in. Whoever even said that debt was this horrible crime that required jail time to overcome? It's not realistic, it's not good content, it's not creative RP, it's just shit.
Believe it or not, doing crimes then sitting in the time out box for 40 minutes then going back to where you were is not healthy for the server
Being tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, but having it not impact you because you keep your money outside of a bank is not healthy for the server
If there is no punishment for being in debt, then other than the short stint in prison, there is no punishment for doing crime. If you get caught, you should feel like it's an actual loss, not like you just got tagged in freeze tag.
They are trying to make DoC RP so it's not just a time out chair, and you don't bore viewers while stuck. If you are a successful criminal and have racked up a bunch of debt from fines, and are using the current system of just "Never repaying, keeping all money stashed or in cash" and are worried you will be sent to debtors prison, you have directly benefited from the system not punishing for accumulating debt in the past.
I think this mechanic was meant to deter players who purposefully abuse going into debt. It gets awkward with characters like chatterbox and james. Maybe DOC can give them some sort of exception vs the crims who horde money and assets while their bank account is negative.
Literally had to watch Mr. K transfer money to Zolo who died flying out of a car due to what appears to be server bugs and scuff just to get out of prison…and even after giving him money he still had to call Slacks and say hey the guards are quote on quote still holding him in prison but he has no debt…whoever decided this really needs to rethink things cause who did clearly deflated one of the best groups on the server the clowns and your promoting basically grinding in order to not be stuck in prison…
The roleplay can be as good as he makes it. There are now serious consequences to him getting caught currently which raises the stakes on everything he does, which can make for interesting drama.
Also it's not life in prison. It's like 50 hours to work off the debt assuming Bobby and Carmine are also forgiving his debt. There are people that have spent far more time roleplaying in prison without having characters like Bobby and Carmine around.
If Bobby and Carmine aren’t around, which is most of the time, it won’t be prison RP it’s full on grinding at a maximum of $4k per hour. It disproportionately hits poorer characters. Sweaty criminals who offer little to the server will be unaffected.
Fact is he's the one who got himself into that much debt. It's stupid they even put him into debt by that much to begin with as it is but doesn't take away he did it to himself. Yeah it sucks the dude can get arrested for something silly and then be stuck in jail but maybe he could come up with a way to work off his debt through Crane. He avoids jail and in the meantime he can still RP outside while working to wipe his debt.
You are way out of the loop. He isn’t talking about regular prison, he’s talking about the new server rule added called debtors prison. If a character is in debt, they can’t leave prison until they’re out of debt. They get out of debt by working jobs in the yard but they make like 10 dollars a job. Characters like Chatterbox that are literally over a million in debt will never leave the prison. The new rule has effectively ended characters like the clowns or James Randall.
bobby and carmine can reduce peoples debt by 5-10k every like ~10 minutes, and prison jobs will pay 1k per. 30 min extra is for regular run of the mill criminals arrest. chatty intentionally eating 10x adoption fraud charges isn't really the norm.
yeah i think the main thing is that people dont want to rp in prison. i get where spaceboy is coming from but it's not like he cant still do sbs stuff. i feel for chatterbox but i imagine there's a way out of that too ic
>Characters like Chatterbox that are literally over a million in debt will never leave the prison
>The new rule has effectively ended characters like the clowns or James Randall.
These are two very different arguments. The first one is a very unique case that chatterbox himself created. Nobody is in a million dollar debt. Nobody was expected to be in a million dollar debt 4 months into the server. Chatterbox himself created this situation for him.
The second one is what I am referring too. This is a new system and is getting tweaked. If someone gets arrested with $0 in account, incur a debt, RP in prison for a some extra time, they get out of prison with exactly $0 in their account.
some people already rp in prison. its usually when people have a lot of time in prison that they decide to work it off and do tasks that usually limits or even ends the interactions
The issue with Chatterbox is that like $600k+ of his debt can get wiped away if he just goes and talks to a judge to get the adoption fraud stuff taken off his record.
The bigger issue is that they should be more clear about how long it takes to work of debt in prison. You have Nathankb_ saying one thing and then a person who is actually doing it having 5x less the amount that Nathankb_ is saying they should be getting. Then you have him again saying one thing and Bobby and Carmine saying another thing.
So they need to clear all of that stuff up and **PUBLISH** what the rates will be so people know and you don't have 4 different people saying different things.
The higher number Nathan referred to is one that takes effect after the next tsunami. Nikez was in Reed's chat after he was arrested and said he looked at the code. Nathan mentioned Reed's experience and said that a conversation happened and the numbers are being increased next tsunami. Might take some time to be balanced but they are clearly ready to adjust it if needed. Would be great if that info was published but Nopixel typically doesn't share detailed info like that, presumably to prevent people using it for min/maxing, among other reasons.
I think its only a good thing overall. You shouldn't be a complete shipload 24-7. Something should definitely be done for those who have accrued massive debt though. Immediately locking them up for weeks / months would be really terrible.
So with this your calling prob one of the best groups the clown shitlords as well as James Randal all who rp 10x more then grime and G6 runners cmon now
And this is yet another reason why the developers of the No Pixel server need to get their act together for the 5.0. (If that's ever ping to be a thing), a server needs to launch with shit worked out and developed beforehand, not as they go, trialling things and mending things nonstop.
You don't need to be grinder to not be in debt.
The only reason people go into massive debt is because they're careless and the debt has not much impact on them.
Glad spaceboy had this take, I definitely feel the current debt system punishes a certain type of RP, Your Jame Randels, Clowns, Reeds ect, however i DO think there should be a further punishment for characters who don't care about fines and rack up millions but idk what that could be
If you are in debt the only consequence should be that you shoudnt be able to have any possesions.
That itself is a fairly major consequence.
Just make it so a drivers license renewal costs 20$ and tada you have a person that cant own anything and cant drive anything, so anytime he gets caught in a vehicle from a friend either he accepts a joyriding or their friend faces some kind of charge.
Imo this is already enough.
If the complainers put half as much effort into finding creative ways to make money while maintaining their flavor of RP, it wouldn’t be an issue.
You can still make great and interesting RP where making money is just a side effect or bonus, rather than the focus.
Not to mention, you reap what you sow. So many of the people complaining would flaunt their debt like a badge of honor. There was no lasting repercussions for their actions because fines meant absolutely nothing to them. Prison time for a crime is hardly a repercussion for a great role-player if the DOC staff are present as they present a prime opportunity to create amazing roleplay now within the prison.
It’s hard to even feel bad for chatterbox who has 1m~ in debt because he basically begged to be charged with like 30 counts of adoption fraud and was given a dozen opportunities to avoid it. Complaining about repercussions now rings hollow.
Are they all allowed to go to ONX if they don't want them to be on NP?
Edit: I like how all of you downvoted the comment without ever answering a genuine question lol
I don't have any problems with removing his presence on the server, I welcome it. This server is for all for us not just him. But knowing how sympathetic people are to his style of rp it wouldn't surprise me if the debt is wiped clean.
u/qashq, your comment has been removed due to breaking Rule 2 - Toxicity.
If you break the rules again it'll be a 3 day ban.
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I’m 100% certain you’ve mixed up Spaceboy with someone else. For one, he’s rarely caused an issue with his RP, and the very few occasions he has, he’s been quick to reach out and resolve it OOC. Second, he doesn’t interact on this subreddit anymore because people (unsurprisingly) got fucking weird with how he handled the Mel trial/death penalty RP.
Personally, I would love of debt forced you into 'low-tier' or '-1' apartments in an awful area. Would be a way to create RP in a new area and incentive getting out of debt so you could wake up other places
damn thats actually a good idea i really like that. somewhere super shitty like the abandoned motel in sandy or where the money run local is (but obv not there, just somewhere similar)
With lots on aggressive locals and wildlife around, its perfect
Didn't Kyle suggest this ages ago?
Yup
And let's face it, there is some rpers who would probably intentionally stay in debt because that is exactly their speed of rp
Something like this would’ve been fine if it was implemented at the start of 4.0 but introducing a change that is as monumental as this now is a bit hard for certain people to operate around. I personally like the system but it’s fucked over a few great characters.
I think all it needs is a one-timd clean slate for those in dept.
Still would be an issue for characters like James randal and the clowns, who operate on the "Do it for the RP" and accept whatever charges/fines come from it. Im like 50/50 in agreement for this as on 1 hand it causes issues for characters like this, but on the other hand it prevents people going for the world record negative bank account like dundee in 3.0, and just paying for everything in cash.
First time I heard Shit lording be referred to as "do it for the RP"
If you think the clowns don’t give people RP I’d encourage you to skim through Kirk and/or Chatterbox’s vod from yesterday. Nearly everyone they spoke to about debtor’s prison expressed some type of interest in helping them out. Queenie straight up sent Kirk 35k to get him out of debt and told twinkles she’d send chatty 100k. You don’t get that type of positive response if people don’t enjoy your RP.
Heck, even Slacks offered Chatterbox a donation drive to help him out.
I'm worried Florida will do it.
I can see it from both sides. NoPixel IS very MMO-stylish in it's ways these days, and that is what get many people 'addicted', and wanna keep on playing, because they have that one goal to aim for. But at the same time, it leaves the actual pure RP'ers in the dust. This server is not really for that type of players any longer.
It might keep people playing, but it definitely doesn't keep people watching. Not many want to tune in to watch grinding imaginary money.
Agree
Wouldn't 'actual pure RPers' respect that debt has consequences tied to it?
Pure RP wouldn’t need mechanics like money at all. Any mechanical limitation on creativity is anti-RP. However, that’s just not really possible when you have thousands of players on a server. In my opinion, making debt matter to the point that it forces your character to grind is prison is prioritizing realism over everything. To the detriment of both content and RP. It doesn’t promote either one and actually works against them both.
Server mechanics kind of enforce the RP. It'd be like saying police disallowing crime and court cases 'limit creativity'. Consequences are important to roleplay as having risk when you do something dangerous/exciting.
Consequences are only important when people aren’t willing to give their character consequences for the story. I already acknowledged a pure RP environment isn’t going to exist on a server with more than a few people. If everyone was committed to doing their part in telling a story, like a play, improv show, or movie, you wouldn’t need consequence mechanics at all.
man, you'd think with so many great RPers stuck in jail and not a lot of mechanics they'd be able to create great RP scenarios. as you say mechanics only limit RP, so the RP in jail should be almost unboundless so what's the issue? I was being snarky but tbh Carmine is living proof that jail RP can be fun. Now imagine if jail gangs were a thing again. I may be naive but I think jail has a massive potential for great RP storylines and this change may help jail to have a more steady population since lifer queue is enabled once again too.
They actually are not important whatsoever and I challenge you to try to validate that point. Every time I hear people insist on consequences, it's usually just trying to force certain people's character decisions to basically not be allowed by server mechanics, and I don't see a lot of great and exciting things coming out of it. There's nothing exciting about being stuck in jail longer.
No consequences= GTA online. Just shoot and rob everyone at the bank and you win.
Do you understand what RP is? The goal of RP, especially content-driven RP on a private server, isn’t to just get the most money by any means possible. That’s not winning. It’s about interacting with other characters, telling stories, being entertaining.
Yes. The RPers that are primarily against it play characters that can be largely characterized as comedic, non-serious and in some cases shit-lordy. PD rarely catches even these non-serious characters and the fines really aren't that bad in terms of time needed to pay them in the rare chance they are apprehended. After almost 6 months of racking up fines it might seem like its a big grind to get out of debt but if they were to 0 out their balance each time after getting caught rather than continuing to go further negative it wouldn't be all that much time. As long as there is some sort of forgiveness from already acquired debts I think people will find they were blowing things out of proportion. If this was in at the start of 4.0 I doubt there would be many complaints.
Except actual pure RPers are now severely punished with actual prison. Debtors dont impact the function of RP or the server at all, why punish it? They're already punished with debt. So I guess in two months the James Randel and Chatterbox sani crew starts... oi...
James Randel barely has any debt, the only outstanding case I can think of is Chatterbox. Let's be honest, it's very unlikely that he would spend several days in there without any devs/players intervening. People don't have the facts and are having a gut reaction to something that just released.
But they knew very well about his debt before introducing this and did nothing. Something might be done but probably only because Crane has been shit upon for hours over it.
Took like 15 minutes of roleplay with a couple people talking to Crane to get it worked out, seems like it's a non-issue then.
I understand that. But it's a bad precedent to punish the few and not all. >Let's be honest, it's very unlikely that he would spend several days in there without any devs/players intervening. EDIT: included the quote I was responding to.
As far as I'm aware this applies to everyone that has any sort of debt?
> Let's be honest, it's very unlikely that he would spend several days in there without any devs/players intervening.
That's the opposite then, he'd get a special get out of jail card that other people aren't going to get.
> I understand that. But it's a bad precedent to punish the few and not all.
before this what was the punishment for debt? Remember this "actual prison" is ran by carmine. They already said DOC can reduce time. ( rp>grinding prison jobs) I doubt the good rp'ers will be affecte. To be honest I'm looking forward to the rp
Also remember that "actual prison" is completely dead during AU and EU and no one can reduce time there except the grinding prison job mechanics.
There shouldnt be punishment for debt. IRL, at least in the US you cant go to prison for debt unless it's taxes, child support or court ordered payback. And now their RP is dictated by other individuals (which Carmine or Dog Town will act in good faith, I'm sure, they're good peeps)
I get what your trying to say but know you are taking those pure Roleplayers who could care less about robbing banks cleaning money etc and basically telling them they have to do some sort of mechanic to earn money or face the debt of prison consequences. People like the clowns and James Randal who never did jobs to make cash now have to
No they don't, once the one time bulk of the debt is gone they're going to get the same time in prison that every other criminal will get when they get caught.
The play style these characters use involves often doing crimes that don’t benefit their characters but are funny/entertaining for everyone involved. As a result they rack up charges at crazy rates and they take it because it’s worth it for the RP. There’s no way for them to make anywhere near enough money to cover how much debt they are regularly going into from those charges without a shit ton of grinding.
If it's worth the RP then I'm sure they're capable of making great RP with the DoC. Trust the roleplayers and let things play out before you doom and gloom about it.
They should have either introduced it from the start of 4.0 or erased everyone's debt before introducing it. Doing neither is just dumb.
It’s like changing the rules to fantasy football in the middle of the season (TDs only count as 3 points instead of 6 etc)
Chatterbox drafted 5 qbs
LOL
This is more and more turning into a MMO and nor a RP server. New Admins and Owners or whoever makes these changes all i see is Veteran RPers already on Variety and Big streamers "who arent stuck in gtarp as a career" playing less and less.
Totally true that since sometime in 3.0 NP has become grind central. Also true that sometime in 3.0 everyone stopped giving a shit about repercussions. SBS is fun, but there's dozens of examples of how SBS goes wrong or fucks things up for people who like serious RP. I actually think getting caught *should* suck. It should be a threat. You shouldn't laugh it off and mock cops and their punishments. Otherwise, what is the point of police anyway? To play tag? The fact that many prominent people have built entire characters around ignoring a major RP element of the server is a bigger problem, imo.
100% agree with you. There should be a threat of consequences for doing crime/breaking the law if you're caught in order to make the stakes higher. And honestly people are always so fucking negative right off the bat it's insane, if certain things aren't working within the system and it needs to be changed then it *can* be changed. But at least let them try some new things and see what works and what doesn't.
that is exactly what it is though, how many crime streamers go back into chases for the cops because they know it is content and they get higher viewership from it... I am not a fan of constant sbs characters and am for the change but I do agree with what others have said in this thread, that it should've been implemented from the start.
>what is the point of the police anyway? to rp and have fun. Punishment encourages W chasing.
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Seems like a 'consequences' thing rather than an economy thing.
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don't need money when you can rob a cop or a civ for a gun or anything else you need.
The problem is people that are in gangs but are debt crims, they just use their friends' super cars and house etc. So them shooting cops to save the rest of the boys literally doesnt matter to them, they swap characters/log off when they get to jail anyway so longer times dont fix this. In essence its a way to prevent powergaming/ignoring mechanics
I think that is part of the consequences for sure but it still doesn't incentive characters to get out of or find a means to get out of debt it seems. At least this provides a way to get out of debt if you are a charcater without outside support. It's just that it's maybe tuned a little low currently as it's just been implemented. I'm sure it'll get changed if there are issues.
Should literally just be an option to get out of debt instead of forcebly doing it to you. RP court system could allow debtors to essentially get sent to prison to work off your debt and could even be a timeframe the player chooses so maybe they know they have no one around, fuck it send me to dogtown and do some stuff to widdle it down. James Randall, chatterbox, and others are enjoyable to have around the server and it will suck seeing them essentially having to either conform to grinding or just make new toons. Nopixel has preached about being content, allow the people that are the content creators some slack and give them the option to do this, not a forceable action. Now say if you are in debt, you shouldnt be able to own a car, house, or other assets that are 'traceable' to you as the owner and no one can buy something for you then transfer to you to claim said ownership... or allow it but if the courts notice they have no money and have assets, they just send people to claim it back
so what stops someone from being in debt, giving all of their money to someone to buy a car and store it in a shared house like what several debt characters did in 3.0?
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sounds like an excuse to completely work around consequences of going to jail to me...
I think having that happen is better than literally jailing people for very long periods of time ie James Randall, chatterbox etc
It'll only be long the first time, per incident times won't be very long. If you include the DOC forgiveness and the changes that are supposed to be occuring later tonight it won't be long at all unless you have chatterbox levels of debt, and there is already a plan to reduce his significantly in the near future.
Reed is currently in prison and assuming you can earn $1k every 15 minutes it’ll take him 50 hours of tedious grinding to get out, no DOC when he’s online. And he was only getting $200 as opposed to the $1k Crane is claiming. Worst case is we’re going to lose some great characters as they can’t work off their debt in a reasonable time. With a long prison sentence you can sleep it off but this you have to be grinding all the time.
Nothing you said has anything to do with what I said, this is just more of the wierd doom everyone has when anything changes ever. Arrangements have already been made for Reed, and the Devs were litterally in his chat to work out better tuning for how long this will take
its a content server not an rp server. some peoples content might be realistic to some and others might not be something different. Their will always be a loop hole to get around things, can't fix that unless they want to change the whole servers ideology
It's more than that, the abuse of debt was so bad in 3.0 it was 1. negatively effecting the economy because people would pull millions out of thin air to buy supercars and houses and 2. there were criminals that used debt as a ticket to commit crime consequence-free. It was the cop shooting that got particularly bad and toxic - people would shoot cops, got to jail, get out and shoot more cops with no way for the PD to stop them or fight back.
The problem was state backed loans not the debt itself.. If people give out a loan and they cant pay, they need to garnish your wages not just put you into debt.
GTARP is primarily cops and crims. Many of the people that did that were criminals that didn't have a legal job the state could track and garnish the wages of.
If they cant garnish wages then they shoudnt get the money.... The goverment should never be able to force yo to go into debt, if you dont have the money you dont need to take a loan out to go into debt. And if a company loans you money that you never plan on paying back then that is a problem for that company. It should be that you have outstanding fines for each crime you did commit and all your property should be seized untill they are paid.
**IF people get a clean slate**, I can see it being a good change: You spend a little extra time in prison, do the same tasks you used to do, gain money for them now, also gain money to roleplay with the wardens of the prison, and in the end gets out of jail with no dept. So no grinding outside of jail to clear dept. Meaning, if you are on the negatives, you gain more money in jail than out of jail doing grinder jobs. \----------- The problem is this wasn't implemented day 1 in NP 4.0, so they let people accumulate dept. And then dropped it with no communication whatsoever until nathankb\_ explained it OOC. Because trying to explain it IC also didn't make much sense for an OOC problem. But I'm optimistic about it now. Still hoping for the clean slate though.
To be fair Michael simone tried explaining it in character to a few people as a legislation. The ones he explained it to either didn't understand it or weren't to keen on the idea as there isn't much else to do other than grind which isn't fun for them
I 100% agree with spaceboy
same here. this debt thing is shutting down people that cause people to laugh with the craziness they bring to the server. its pretty much like banning them. either you change who your character is or you are shut down.
I just see a cop car ride to prison. Gimme some context.
if you are in debt, you stay in prison. chatterbox is 1.5 million in debt so hes pretty much done for.
I'm sure it's not his fault he's in that position. EDIT: Ya'll expect everybody that responds here has another tab open.
Bro got that debt making jokes, like a bunch of counts of adoption fraud which doesn’t even happen anymore and sbs shit, it’s not supposed to be taken serious. Now the debt system was dropped without him knowing and he’s now fucked, I’m sure if he knew from the start he wouldn’t have done those jokes but he was running off a system that worked through all of 3.0
>but he was running off a system that worked through all of 3.0 Wait what?
It's a high score to too many viewers, lol. I'm outta here.
This server alone is everyone stand in a circle for 5 hours a day handing npcs weed to clean and be stuck with 4 people at a time endlessly on the back of a garbage truck or endlessly in a tow vehicle. They seem to be non stop making this a MMO and not a place to RP and make connections and stories. Look at all the HQ changes thay killed hundreds of stroylines and essentially screwed anyone who isn't in the big 5 groups at ever doing anything since the big 5 will always buy the jobs and the cool downs make it to only hit these things a few times a server it literally takes away so many opportunities and makes more grind.
James Randal videos is what brought me and many others to watch Nopixel. Without characters like him, Adam, Leo, Chatterbox and many others, it may be harder to get people to watch.
When happy go lucky spaceboy is dooming... you should be extremely worried.
The only way this isn't one of the worst choices in 4.0 history is to effectively wipe everyone's debt, and even then it will stop a lot of funny and fuck it RP. If they aren't willing to wipe everyone's debt then creators should just mass perma because someone like chatter box would be in prison forever so it would be a perma regardless.
Seems like a dog shit change to me, who does this even benefit? Is it to make a level playing field for those who put in work grinding and those who don't so the ones without money get equally punished? It's a change that will only incentivize sweatiness and grinding and disincentive doing dumb fun shit. If they feel like there's too much crime and they want to curtail it why not just increase times for everyone instead of forcing certain people to grind to get out of prison? Like Spaceboy said it just punishes a certain style of roleplay which some people call "shitlords". The same people who drive around in a circle all day not playing a character talking about their uber eats orders (the actual shitlords).
Its literally day 1 of the new mechanic and it should be apparent that James Randall, Chatterbox and clowns are not the primary target of this change. Things will be tuned and fixed accordingly, but its to discourage gangs rolling around in millions of debt while keeping luxury cars in shared garage. It fixes not just the economy but also the pacing. Am sure the creative minds like Spaceboy and Chatterbox along with the mayor support can come to an IC workaround if the devs don't end up dealing with it.
why should the mayor/government bail out a character like chatterbox of 1mil in debt though?
Sure it doesn't make sense IC, but OOC this is a server health issue. This mechanic is new and Chatterbox amassed most of his debt shitlording around the adoption fraud legislation which was later repealed. So does NP send Chatterbox to life prison or adjust and allow some wiggle room to one of the rp centered groups? Considering Crane reached out to Chatterbox, think the answer is obvious.
I mean yeah they should refund all of the adoption fraud charges like they said they would, but any other debt he has just would not make sense.
I think Chatterbox could easily go to court and argue this is a retroactive application of law to his pre-existing debt, and a violation of basic legal principles. Spaceboy could RP out a settlement negotiation with the state to forgive Chatterbox's debts after making a certain amount of payment (like IRL debt to the IRS, or bankruptcy court), negotiate a payment plan, and then run a period of "desperate Chatterbox" running clown fundraisers and begging for money to hit the payment goals or he has to go to prison. In fact, he could probably get enough to pay the payments AND scam a bit extra for himself after paying the settlement. A little RP effort and being open to a different story direction usually solves almost everything.
You mean when the Police are handing out 60k adoption fraud fines for saying "Cornwood is my son" offhand? Come on.
Blame the people abusing being in debt. Fines aren’t that bad and people are hardly arrested lately. As long as you’re not stealing civ guns or killing cops fines aren’t that bad.
You clearly have never actually watched any of the clowns streams. They literally call the cops on themselves and if they escape, they ping the cops to come start the chase again. They go to jail regularly. They literally are just trying to create fun RP for everyone. They aren't abusing debt. They are literally trying to make sure everyone on the server has fun. On a content server, shouldn't content be the priority, not enforcing game mechanics?
never said they did, blame Dundee
A bit reductive to blame one person for this kind of sweeping change, no?
I totally agree with you.You can work off the debt , carmine and Bobby can also take debt off as well for good behavior(good rp). If you aren't raking up 6 figure fines it's fine and pretty fair in my opinion.
I really hope they push more DOC ASAP. I feel like it should've been done prior to this change. AU/EU is lucky if they see one DOC on any given day so it's basically a coinflip if DOC can reduce debt/time for good behavior anywhere outside of NA. Overall good DOC change because it incentivizes RP but its currently bad because of the lack of preparation IC prior to this change.
Yeah if chatterbox was au-eu his debt to prison time would be llthe worst. I lowkey hope Pred gets more involved now it's a thing.
I never really thought about Pred becoming DOC or something of those sorts but yeah, you're right. I think Pred would be really good in some sorta role within the prison
If only Carmine would be able to hire whoever he wants, he could literally give them keys to leave prison in exchange for them doing some SBS missions from time to time.
I think it is better for roleplay. It is sort of a soft cooldown to keep people from instantly committing crimes when they come out of jail. Should also help the PD so things don’t get chaotic, dog town also gets more roleplay. And maybe make these people feel more real in the world? You expect these type of characters to either be in jail for long or try to adapt and work around it. But I wouldn’t be surprised if things get adjusted, system just got added and they can always change it.
PD won’t be as much fun if chasing the likes of Clowns becomes as sweaty as chasing gangs as the consequences have been turned up too high.
The people that commit crimes back to back arent ever in debt
Trying to make RP different by creating longer jail sequences is the same as saying "we hate that you RP this way and we are in character banning you for RPing this way." It's no deeper than that and it's not fun whatsoever to engage in. Whoever even said that debt was this horrible crime that required jail time to overcome? It's not realistic, it's not good content, it's not creative RP, it's just shit.
Believe it or not, doing crimes then sitting in the time out box for 40 minutes then going back to where you were is not healthy for the server Being tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, but having it not impact you because you keep your money outside of a bank is not healthy for the server If there is no punishment for being in debt, then other than the short stint in prison, there is no punishment for doing crime. If you get caught, you should feel like it's an actual loss, not like you just got tagged in freeze tag. They are trying to make DoC RP so it's not just a time out chair, and you don't bore viewers while stuck. If you are a successful criminal and have racked up a bunch of debt from fines, and are using the current system of just "Never repaying, keeping all money stashed or in cash" and are worried you will be sent to debtors prison, you have directly benefited from the system not punishing for accumulating debt in the past.
I think this mechanic was meant to deter players who purposefully abuse going into debt. It gets awkward with characters like chatterbox and james. Maybe DOC can give them some sort of exception vs the crims who horde money and assets while their bank account is negative.
Literally had to watch Mr. K transfer money to Zolo who died flying out of a car due to what appears to be server bugs and scuff just to get out of prison…and even after giving him money he still had to call Slacks and say hey the guards are quote on quote still holding him in prison but he has no debt…whoever decided this really needs to rethink things cause who did clearly deflated one of the best groups on the server the clowns and your promoting basically grinding in order to not be stuck in prison…
Oh no, people have to actually roleplay being in prison for the consequences of their actions.
now if chatterbox gets into a petty fight he could get life in prison. You think thats good roleplay?
The roleplay can be as good as he makes it. There are now serious consequences to him getting caught currently which raises the stakes on everything he does, which can make for interesting drama. Also it's not life in prison. It's like 50 hours to work off the debt assuming Bobby and Carmine are also forgiving his debt. There are people that have spent far more time roleplaying in prison without having characters like Bobby and Carmine around.
If Bobby and Carmine aren’t around, which is most of the time, it won’t be prison RP it’s full on grinding at a maximum of $4k per hour. It disproportionately hits poorer characters. Sweaty criminals who offer little to the server will be unaffected.
Fact is he's the one who got himself into that much debt. It's stupid they even put him into debt by that much to begin with as it is but doesn't take away he did it to himself. Yeah it sucks the dude can get arrested for something silly and then be stuck in jail but maybe he could come up with a way to work off his debt through Crane. He avoids jail and in the meantime he can still RP outside while working to wipe his debt.
Spending 30 minutes extra in prison RPing with Carmine and Bobby makes RPing on the server borderline impossible? What is his argument?
It’s not 30 mins
You are way out of the loop. He isn’t talking about regular prison, he’s talking about the new server rule added called debtors prison. If a character is in debt, they can’t leave prison until they’re out of debt. They get out of debt by working jobs in the yard but they make like 10 dollars a job. Characters like Chatterbox that are literally over a million in debt will never leave the prison. The new rule has effectively ended characters like the clowns or James Randall.
bobby and carmine can reduce peoples debt by 5-10k every like ~10 minutes, and prison jobs will pay 1k per. 30 min extra is for regular run of the mill criminals arrest. chatty intentionally eating 10x adoption fraud charges isn't really the norm.
yeah i think the main thing is that people dont want to rp in prison. i get where spaceboy is coming from but it's not like he cant still do sbs stuff. i feel for chatterbox but i imagine there's a way out of that too ic
>Characters like Chatterbox that are literally over a million in debt will never leave the prison >The new rule has effectively ended characters like the clowns or James Randall. These are two very different arguments. The first one is a very unique case that chatterbox himself created. Nobody is in a million dollar debt. Nobody was expected to be in a million dollar debt 4 months into the server. Chatterbox himself created this situation for him. The second one is what I am referring too. This is a new system and is getting tweaked. If someone gets arrested with $0 in account, incur a debt, RP in prison for a some extra time, they get out of prison with exactly $0 in their account.
some people already rp in prison. its usually when people have a lot of time in prison that they decide to work it off and do tasks that usually limits or even ends the interactions
The issue with Chatterbox is that like $600k+ of his debt can get wiped away if he just goes and talks to a judge to get the adoption fraud stuff taken off his record. The bigger issue is that they should be more clear about how long it takes to work of debt in prison. You have Nathankb_ saying one thing and then a person who is actually doing it having 5x less the amount that Nathankb_ is saying they should be getting. Then you have him again saying one thing and Bobby and Carmine saying another thing. So they need to clear all of that stuff up and **PUBLISH** what the rates will be so people know and you don't have 4 different people saying different things.
The higher number Nathan referred to is one that takes effect after the next tsunami. Nikez was in Reed's chat after he was arrested and said he looked at the code. Nathan mentioned Reed's experience and said that a conversation happened and the numbers are being increased next tsunami. Might take some time to be balanced but they are clearly ready to adjust it if needed. Would be great if that info was published but Nopixel typically doesn't share detailed info like that, presumably to prevent people using it for min/maxing, among other reasons.
I think its only a good thing overall. You shouldn't be a complete shipload 24-7. Something should definitely be done for those who have accrued massive debt though. Immediately locking them up for weeks / months would be really terrible.
So with this your calling prob one of the best groups the clown shitlords as well as James Randal all who rp 10x more then grime and G6 runners cmon now
Oh nooo charges with fines actually mean something and isn't just a 30 min time out anymore, the humanity
And this is yet another reason why the developers of the No Pixel server need to get their act together for the 5.0. (If that's ever ping to be a thing), a server needs to launch with shit worked out and developed beforehand, not as they go, trialling things and mending things nonstop.
This is a problem with bigger servers idk how onyx is but servers like prodigy and nopixel want you to log in everyday so everything becomes a grind
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thats a really cool system wish more servers did that
You don't need to be grinder to not be in debt. The only reason people go into massive debt is because they're careless and the debt has not much impact on them.
Glad spaceboy had this take, I definitely feel the current debt system punishes a certain type of RP, Your Jame Randels, Clowns, Reeds ect, however i DO think there should be a further punishment for characters who don't care about fines and rack up millions but idk what that could be
If you are in debt the only consequence should be that you shoudnt be able to have any possesions. That itself is a fairly major consequence. Just make it so a drivers license renewal costs 20$ and tada you have a person that cant own anything and cant drive anything, so anytime he gets caught in a vehicle from a friend either he accepts a joyriding or their friend faces some kind of charge. Imo this is already enough.
If the complainers put half as much effort into finding creative ways to make money while maintaining their flavor of RP, it wouldn’t be an issue. You can still make great and interesting RP where making money is just a side effect or bonus, rather than the focus. Not to mention, you reap what you sow. So many of the people complaining would flaunt their debt like a badge of honor. There was no lasting repercussions for their actions because fines meant absolutely nothing to them. Prison time for a crime is hardly a repercussion for a great role-player if the DOC staff are present as they present a prime opportunity to create amazing roleplay now within the prison. It’s hard to even feel bad for chatterbox who has 1m~ in debt because he basically begged to be charged with like 30 counts of adoption fraud and was given a dozen opportunities to avoid it. Complaining about repercussions now rings hollow.
Are they all allowed to go to ONX if they don't want them to be on NP? Edit: I like how all of you downvoted the comment without ever answering a genuine question lol
Several people play both without issues.
I don't have any problems with removing his presence on the server, I welcome it. This server is for all for us not just him. But knowing how sympathetic people are to his style of rp it wouldn't surprise me if the debt is wiped clean.
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u/qashq, your comment has been removed due to breaking Rule 2 - Toxicity. If you break the rules again it'll be a 3 day ban. --- [^(Read)^( )^(our)^( )^(rules)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RPClipsGTA/wiki/subreddit/rules) ^| [^(Contact)^( )^(us)^( )^(via)^( ) ^(*modmail*)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/RPClipsGTA&subject=I%20received%20a%20warning.&message=Here:%20/r/RPClipsGTA/comments/1ci3l8i/spaceboy_talks_about_debtors_prison/l2849va/%20I%20would%20like%20to%20know%20more%20about%20this%20warning.)
I’m 100% certain you’ve mixed up Spaceboy with someone else. For one, he’s rarely caused an issue with his RP, and the very few occasions he has, he’s been quick to reach out and resolve it OOC. Second, he doesn’t interact on this subreddit anymore because people (unsurprisingly) got fucking weird with how he handled the Mel trial/death penalty RP.
Yes you are 100% certain that I've confused Spaceboy with someone else.
I thought they already fix prison rp with doc carmine and bobby spent more time in prison then anyone in the server right now