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AEW Dynamite's demo is down 23.7 percent year-over-year.
Through the first 16 weeks of 2022, they averaged a 0.38 rating in 18-49.
In 2023, they are averaging a 0.29 in 18-49.
That's unreal. WWE were the one of the oldest shows on cable let alone wrestling and now they've gotten so much younger while AEW is so much older.
WWE fires Jeff Jarrett, gets younger.
AEW hires Jeff Jarrett, gets older
Coincidence??????
Is funny how the evolution of rating threads went from the perspective of AEW fans
- Fuck Yeah N°1 in the demo surpassing the WWE, sooner than later we are going to beat them
- Fuck yeah over 1 million viewers, demo doesnt matter
- Fuck yeah number 1 on cable, viewers dont matter
- Concern trolling too much? Since when ratings matter? Just enjoy the show
This is one of the most annoying things about this "war." TK and Jericho talk all this shit online and then certain trolls (certainly not all of their fans) double down on it. They start an argument that WWE leaning people were not interested in, but they talk so, so much shit. Like remember the people here after the one bad Raw a couple weeks ago (which had tremendous ratings btw)? Those cringey ass condescending posts?
Then when they don't do as well as they asserted that they would, they get on the defensive and act like WWE fans are kicking AEW for no reason.
I’m an AEW fan primarily, but yeah, AEW fanbase has this weird breed of cultism in it.
Anything dealing with popularity or general public they just don’t have a lot of reference points or awareness of how niche it is.
For sure, I've seen people get hyper defensive too and revert back to asking why demos and ratings even matter as long as they enjoy the product. Well, first it's always important for your product to grow. Second, you would reasonably want it to grow on the metrics that the company's owner himself told you were important.
I've been actually trying to get into AEW these past couple of days or so. Watched a couple PPVs an enjoyed them enough. Might start watching consistently but I can tell they're not on a hot streak at all right now.
But some of the fans.....man they make it hard to want to join lol. The dooming and condescending posts that Raw were just awful. It felt like how it used to be on here when AEW first started. Just so much doom and gloom it's like some of these AEW fans were practically WAITING for WWE to fuck up so they can pounce. It's so weird.
> (certainly not all of their fans)
You’re being too kind, it’s absolutely all of their fans. They have a warped mindset that AEW can do no wrong and fuck everybody who has even a slightly different opinion.
It's truly deranged at this point. Every single week, whatever was among the worst stuff on Dynamite will get criticized and then the AEW mob goes on the defense asap. Like this week people were criticizing the silly rope hops Komander was doing and of course AEW fans had to immediately go "SO YOU HATE WHEN THE UNDERTAKER DOES 'OLD SCHOOL' TOO??? BECAUSE THAT'S JUST AS STUPID!!" like bro can't we just all agree Kommander looked stupid and keep it moving? Not everything needs to be an argument
That's literally the answer. The talent is there. The interest is there. The storytelling isn't. Constant surprise debuts, announcements, and nonsense title changes aren't cutting it anymore. Last night felt like a knockoff 2019 WWE.
Tony has to realize by now that just booking cool matches isn't going to cut it. He wants to run back WCW, well, he needs an nWo. Not literally the organization, but a huge story that shakes up the whole show and feels fresh.
Also, QT Marshall still getting TV time here in the year of our Lord 2023 is a wrestling crime.
They do have the talent but they just don't know how to use it. To me, the AEW upper mid/main even scene should be guys like Omega, Moxley, MJF, Hobbs, Wardlow, Danielson, Christian, Punk, Miro, Joe and maybe Swerve. That should be the core of their show, along with a good tag division built around FTR, The Gunn Club, Buddy and Brody, Butcher and the Blade and so on.
But the way they're used is so bizarre. The amount of talentless, worthless wrestlers who get prominent time on this show is ludicrous. You've gut Miro sat at home while Action Andretti is given strong booking. It's so, so bad.
Tony is the king of that. And making matches where you know who will win 20 mins long. Aew needs more squashes. How are their stars supposed to shine when they can barely beat Andretti, yuta or komander.
I like QT when he wants to be the classic old school heel
I don't like QT when he tries literally anything else. They took Hobbs from monster to monster factory.
I was checked out after the opening segment last night. Darby, Jungle Boy, and Sammy are great wrestlers but I don’t want to hear them talk right now. They’re all gonna be great some day, but that’s not today and that’s fine. MJF is great now, but that doesn’t mean the other three needs to be. The problem is there are no other faces right now that are main event level AND free for a story with MJF. Your biggest group of faces (BCC) just turned heel to feud with your other group of biggest faces (The Elite). They can’t go back to Ricky already and Cole just came back and needs to rack up some wins before moving on to MJF.
The Elite/BCC needed the opener time and time slot, that’s the best story they have going right now.
Also, the women have been running the same story for what feels like 3 months and I have no idea where they’re going with it.
But you’re absolutely right, the booking right now sucks and that’s the biggest problem. Fix that, and I think the ratings rebound quick.
I have no proof of the drawing power of The Acclaimed aside from their merch and crowd pops, but I feel like they really dropped the ball taking the belts off them. When they were hot they should have been on Dynamite every wednesday in key quarters.
They should let their good talkers actually talk more too, like Starks.
Tony Khan just loves booking people to win in their respective 'hometowns'. So you get Britt going over solo against the entirety of the outcasts. Wardlow winning the title for the third time. Even though it makes no sense from a storyline perspective.
Defeating Hobbs, who only had the title because they were going on the west coast and they could let him when the title in his hometown.
Good thing no one on the roster is from “parts unknown”
Hobbs won’t the title out of nowhere, did a couple of weeks of QTV then came back defended the title against a nobody then lost the title to Wardlow. All in about a month’s time. Wardlow has been completely wasted after the MJF feud and both he and Hobbs are ice cold. Such a waste.
Doing the Four Pillars thing (especially early on in the company’s lifespan) was a mistake on AEW’s part, for a couple of reasons:
1) The whole point of the OG Four Pillars was that they were what the company was built around, and they were keeping it strong and stable. Y’know, like pillars. They weren’t the future of the company, they *were* the company. If Sammy or Jungle Boy left AEW for whatever reason, would the complexion of the company change all that drastically?
2) If the four of them don’t become top level stars in your company, then the reference doesn’t work on the most basic level. It essentially becomes an albatross for them if they don’t live up to that hype. Right now, the only one who’s a top guy is MJF, and the only other one close is Darby. Ffs, Jungle Boy just got done being the third most interesting guy in his feud with Christian.
If you were absolutely dead set on adhering to this Four Pillars thing, then you could easily have had Starks, Hobbs, or Wardlow fill a couple of those slots, provided you book them right. There’d be history and connections between the pillars then, much like originals, whose careers were practically intertwined.
TL;DR: doing the Four Pillars thing was fuckin stupid, and it’s only been a detriment so far. Also they should never have split Team Taz, there, I said it.
You’re missing reason 3: None of these AEW guys could lace Misawa’s boots. And that’s not even a jab at them. Tony just had to compare his creations to the greatest wrestlers of all time when they were barely out of the bingo hall.
Well that goes without saying, there’s very few in history who could get on the level of the OG Pillars, even on the Pillars’ worst days. To your point, like I said earlier, it’s basically an albatross for the AEW Pillars to be even tangentially likened to the originals. If they don’t reach transcendent levels, then you’ve effectively set them up for failure.
The worked shoots are getting incredibly tiring at this point. It’s happening at least once a week now and it’s been a long time since they were necessary. It’s poor writing and exacerbates how uninteresting the stories are in modern AEW.
Adam Cole’s promo on Jericho was essentially taken word for word from Danielson’s last year. That segment had just as many problems as the opening segment in my opinion, but it was covered by more charismatic workers.
They have a money program with BCC vs the Elite, hopefully TK pivots soon to making that the focal point of the show. It’s so much better than anything else at the moment.
It just feels like Tony Khan signed Jay White because he had to. AEW has a smart audience, but you can’t assume they all know everything about Jay White. You had to immediately let everyone know he was a big deal and they’ve missed that chance. It doesn’t feel like TK fumbling the opportunity, but more so that he doesn’t see Jay White as a guy he wants at the top of his promotion.
>It just feels like Tony Khan signed Jay White because he had to. AEW has a smart audience, but you can’t assume they all know everything about Jay White. You had to immediately let everyone know he was a big deal and they’ve missed that chance. It doesn’t feel like TK fumbling the opportunity, but more so that he doesn’t see Jay White as a guy he wants at the top of his promotion.
Treating Jay White like this should disqualify anyone from being a wrestling booker. He is more talented, with a bigger ceiling than anyone else on the roster, and Tony has him ducking a WWE jobber who has never gotten a crowd reaction.
It’s cute that people feared a feud with the Miz when that’s so much more high profile than Shawn “I swear that I was out every minute on personal leave” Spears.
Miz would be better than this mess, but I don't even get why people were saying that to begin with. WWE went all out for Cody Rhodes debut. I have a lot of complaints about WWE, but they try to make their new stars look like a big deal.
> The worked shoots are getting incredibly tiring at this point.
Makes me pretty worried for when they do bring Punk back...because the ONLY angle bringing him back makes any sense is a series of worked shoots. Its Jericho trying to keep him out of the company. Its him bitching about the slights by The Elite. Its them leaning into Brawl Out. All of which feel like they're gonna devolve to some Vince-level writing the way most of last night went.
Can someone explain why Jay White wrestled someone who we've never heard of before then ran away from Shawn Spears? Aren't we supposed to be taking this big free agent signing seriously?
Don’t forget paired with Juice Robinson….and I’m a NJPW watcher too, so I get why peoples opinions here are skewed….but objectively for the majority of the fan base, or the base you’re trying to attract, Juice may be the lamest wrestler on the roster….
From the camera botch on his surprise entrance through last night it’s been a master class in how to completely fuck him up….Jay may wind up fine, but if he does, it’s because he’s that damn good….they currently aren’t doing him any favors.
It’s amazing to me that NJPW is still partnering with AEW after signing both Jay and Juice. Tony left them with scraps and turned one of their biggest investments into a geek overnight.
I’m honestly watching AEW’s relationships over the next few months. I’m a big fan of them doing crossover shows, but I feel like a lot of the love is a one way street.
Your talent can take titles from other promotions but they don’t really give back. They used to offer wrestlers to Indy promotions but lately have been scaling back or canceling last minute making the other promos look like fools. Now they are taking talent from other promotions.
People are already asking when Vikingo will be All Elite. Konnan would be a fool to give him up.
It's a one way street even when it hurts AEW. Kenny got his heat back instantly at WK. So does Tony capitalize on it? No, they barely mention it and it's back to business with AEW Kenny.
I still don’t get them not mentioning the IWGP US championship more. Hell, I wonder if they’ll even pull the trigger and have OC lose his title at Forbidden Door.
It feels like ego to me. If Kenny's one of my top guys and another promotion makes him look like a god, I'm going to take that ball and run with it. The lack of spotlight makes me feel Tony was self-conscious over NJPW handling Kenny better than he's able to.
I didn't see Dynamite yet but just in general I honestly think Jay White would have been WAY better served going to WWE. He's going to be just another wrestler in AEW, but in WWE I really think he could be a star.
Someone said it best a few weeks ago, and I agree : "Jay's ceiling was higher in WWE, but his floor was also lower". Meaning he could of been a walking kiwi stereotype, or a huge threat.
I still fantasy book him as winning the US belt from Cena the RAW after Mania :( (yes it would hurt Theory... but honestly winning against Cena didn't help him too much either)
I think it's pretty clear that, in the absence of one-off "dream matches" or the return of CM Punk, they're down to the core audience now and even some of them are slowly losing interest
What's the point of getting invested when within 4 weeks the wrestler you were behind isn't then seen for a month? Wardlow was white hot, they threw cold water on him and he disappeared. Miro? Bryan Danielson was the best heel in the company and then joined the BCC as an almost silent moving part, lost a bunch of matches and was only redeemed through an incredible match with MJF (because how can you miss).
That 4 pillars segment was embarrassing. I’m so tired of work/shoot bullshit. It’s so fucking lame. Y2J and Cole felt like the title scene more than the 4 pillars stuff. It was going well but then it turned into a wwe promo train with people with no charisma. Darby has been great except last night where he was out of character and sounded petty. Hobbs and wardlow is a fucking mess. The BCC was cool but it needs more time. And Jay White should’ve fucking murdered Kommander, Kommander is cool but my god he’s sloppy and his shit takes way too long.
Edit: whoever sent me a Reddit Cares is hilarious. It’s ok to criticize things you enjoy haha. It’s not that deep.
I couldn’t help but notice how many times all of them didn’t just turn their backs to the hard camera, but were blocking the camera’s view of the guy they were talking to.
Don’t get me wrong, I hate how geared to the hard camera WWE is, but Jesus Christ. At least have *some* idea of where the camera is.
> Don’t get me wrong, I hate how geared to the hard camera WWE is, but Jesus Christ. At least have some idea of where the camera is.
Hilariously enough, the hard camera was flipped for last nights show...which might explain some of this. The entrance ramp ran "stage right" instead of its usual "stage left" to the hard cam.
The opening segment was channel changing bad, none of the three they put out there are people you want cutting LONG promos. Also Jay White is kinda confounding, they debut him in a two second backstage segment months ago. Then announce him as some new major dude and have him 50/50 his first match with Tony Khans new lucha flavor of the week. The Cole/Baker segment was also embarrassing, probably wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so overacted and using shoot names. I agree that the BCC are better then when they were faces. Other than MJF and the sprinkling of Hobbs/Starks/Wardlow, BCC is the only thing I've been looking forward to.
> I agree that the BCC are better then when they were faces.
Yes and no. I actually like the general idea of the heel path they've taken (and its what they clearly were trending towards with Regal before he split), but they're getting REAL lazy with the same beat down week after week. And this week, with The Elite calling them out and still getting jumped...it just makes your faces look inept, even if they won out that segment.
Also, really doesnt help that the womens title scene is all around one story, meanwhile anyone not involved cant get any matches because Jade hasnt had a legit title defense in like...5 months?
This is the same crowd who would be chanting Fire Russo for writing these bland and stupid work/shoots but I guess since it's tony khan, we'll ignore it.
Darby is the only one the crowd cares about and only one that can talk. Hopefully he wins this stupid 3 man tournament.
Can't believe I just wrote that. 3. man. tournament. Fuck, Tony is so insane.
Cody Rhodes, MJF, and the Elite were the real pillars of AEW lol
And now Cody's a huge star for another company, MJF's awful title run has cooled him down after being white hot for a while, and the Elite are a love or hate amongst wrestling fans
Calling anyone other than their biggest stars their "pillars" was always going to go wrong unless they were locks to be superstars
Wardlow and Hobbs have the potential to be legit stars imo. But letting them fuck around in the midcard in favor of giving Jungle Boy and Sammy heavyweight title exposure is clearly the better option.
I think you're right...I was thinking Wardlow vs MJF, but why isn't it any combination of Mox vs MJF, Danielson vs MJF part II, or Kenny vs MJF?
Now that the trios titles are off the Elite, couldn't Kenny work against MJF? Is he their biggest babyface singles star now?
He could still draw easily more than any of the pillars could if given the placement and story. No one wants to see the best wrestler in the world be wasted on the mid card or talking about flaccid penis more often than he wins matches.
I don't feel like its an MJF problem more than a booking problem. All the sudden, in kayfabe, MJF is best friends with TK after leaking his phone calls and no threatening to leave for greener pastures.
A lackluster build to the Danielson feud, right after Danielson was cooled off by the BBC stuff. (I didn't even think it was possible to cool off Danielson, but somehow that madman did it.) Followed by this awful four way feud.
If AEW and the diehard fans want to hold Dynamite to a standard, last night’s show was below any sort of high standard. Shit happens, but I’m shocked seeing so many people avoid the obvious in trying to defend it. You should want a show to be at its best week to week, rather than lie and pretend like it’s okay
Hard agree. I actively hate it now tbh the 3 of them are really solid wrestlers and MJF is pretty great, but they have nothing on the Four pillars of heaven. Wrestling is subjective but those 4 are imo better than any other wrestlers ever besides maybe Kurt Angle but that's my personal opinion. MJF is a level above the other 3 and even he I think isnt as good as a number of guys in the company right now. He should be defending against challengers that can believably be world champion especially on such a stacked roster
>Hard agree. I actively hate it now tbh those 4 are really solid wrestlers and MJF is pretty great, but they have nothing on the Four pillars of heaven. Wrestling is subjective but those 4 are imo better than any other wrestlers ever besides maybe Kurt Angle but that's my personal opinion. MJF is a level above the other 3 and even he I think isnt as good as a number of guys in the company right now. He should be defending against challengers that can believably be world champion especially on such a stacked roster
Yep. I don't even think it's subjective to say the AJPW Pillars are better than AEW "Pillars". That's like comparing Tom Brady to a second string college QB. That branding was the first thing that made me think Tony was delusional about the quality of his promotion.
A fatal four way as a Dynanite main event sounds fun, as a PPV main event I think only MJF vs Darby is even feasible since they had such a great match before. But MJF should be defending against any of the other top guys in the company right now instead. AEW has a very stacked roster at the top but JB and Sammy are solid midcarders at best
I'm wondering is the whole pillar thing based on their ages? Like why wasn't Hangman considered a pillar if age is a factor, he is only like a year older than Sammy and Darby
I seriously think MFJ was just trying to say foundation but said pillars without the AJPW context coming to his brain.
And then Tony and the IWC went straight to the AJPW Pillars like dumbasses.
the plight of wanting to push someone new and give your heavy hitters something new while also just picking the absolute wrong guys. Tony is definitely in tune with the IWC because he's pushing guys he/fans like rather than pushing someone with credibility. Someone you look at and think could be a genuine threat to your world champion. The IWC wants everyone they like to get big pushes and if they don't then they're being wasted, creative bad, etc, etc.
WWE managed to make Logan Paul feel like a credible threat to Roman Reigns in the span of a couple of weeks. AEW is still trying to make Sammy feel legit.
It's like me when I use to play SmackDown vs Raw and I'd book Edge vs Paul London for the WWE championship in the main event just because I use to like Brian Kendrick and Paul London back in the day.
Yeah but in WWE's real scenarios Edge, or whomever it is puts over their challenger big time.
Liv Morgan was floundering the mid card till her feud with Becky. WWE and Becky in 2 weeks made her look like a legit threat to Becky's reign.
MJF is not at that place yet. Someone like Punk, Danielson, maybe Kingston are.
There is a reason why the belt goes to someone credible first. It takes a credible person to make others legit. After you do that, you have options. They brought in a ready main eventer in Jay White and have him doing fuck all.
At some point the IWC that looks cradling Tony Khan's balls have to hold him accountable.
I honestly think Tony’s doubled down on it being a niche product because he focuses on the positive comments/voices….and as the viewers have slowly dwindled. It’s the niche minority voice that is loudest and the only one really still saying how amazing he and the show are.
And none of those guys should be in the main event scene with a roster this stacked. I get the “Pillars” idea is cute or whatever but this shit is way too forced.
The pillars idea would have worked if they were more consistent with the booking through the years, but besides MJF none of them have interacted in a meaningful way with the main event or upper midcard scene, so them suddenly being labelled as equals to MJF just because fans desperately wanted to recreate an smark term that they dont even understand due cultural differences is stupid
I don't think it's a booking thing. It's a jungleboy quite literally has no charisma thing. His big hair dinosaur thing is over, time to find himself now. Tho I'm not sure he ever will !!!! And that's a fact!!
Man that's because being good in the ring can only get you so far. Yes, in places like this it can get you a ton of attention but most viewers only care so much about 'match quality.'
You gotta be charismatic and have a good promo to break out. Take MJF. The man doesn't wrestle hard or fast and, if anything, wrestles like he's in WWE but he's beloved for his ring work and promo ability.
Would've been a better idea if the pillars had some sort of decent build, some of those dudes were not even in a good storyline, so when they are about to clash it just feels meh.
NXT build Carmelo and Bron for a year before they could face off, and it came out as one of the most anticipated matches in NXT just because they too were both pillars, but booked right.
I have really soured on the pillars being labeled as such. The actual four pillars of heaven from AJPW are literal GOAT tier wrestlers and while I like the 4 AEW pillars they are not even close at all and probably never will be to those 4. Even MJF imo is having a few good segments as champ but it has felt very underwhelming.
Coming from the FIRE ME promo to this? It feels like filler while the actual main event scene is having a great storyline. Kenny, Hangman, Punk, Mox, Danielson, Christian, Jericho, Miro, Eddie, the amazing Lucha talent, OC, and Dark Order are the reasons I tune in to AEW. I know that doesnt mean much to the wider fanbase but I just dont feel like the fans are very into JB and Sammy like they are MJF and Darby. This storyline indeed feels very forced when there are many fresh matchups we could see take on MJF instead.
Why have MJF ve booked like Brock Lesnar? He isnt a special attraction and its bs that the other world champs had title matches on weekly TV fairly often but MJF is booked like hes WWE champion. Not very fun as a fan tbh
Is 4 pillars supposed to reflect future of AEW/Wrestling? Because if yes, then I'm sorry, but who the hell would think that this 4 guys would be wrestling next Cena/Orton/Lesnar/Batista. Ok I understand MJF, he is definitely haves IT. Kinda understand Darby, with his wrestling style. But other 2... just Jezz, none of them should ever be higher than upper low card.
4 Pillars is an ode to the 4 Pillars of AJPW. I’m not as huge on Akira Taue as the others but Misawa, Kawada and Kobashi are literal godlike figures in Japanese Wrestling. I see what AEW is going for but it not even close.
Yes that's what makes it freaking embarrassing. They should be humbled for even trying to present these guys as on par...I don't know how to say this in a more respectful way...but they just aren't there yet and who knows if they ever will be.
Imagine if Triple H got his major main event push before he got that rub from teaming with HBK. As Hunter Hearst Helmsley he was a multi time Intercontinental champion, but he was still a ways away from becoming The Game. Sammi/Darby/JB need more time to cook in the midcard, especially with how stacked the main event is with stars. Doesn't make a lick of sense to run this story now.
Do they? I don't feel like Sammy/Darby/JB are going to really get any further in the midcard than they are now, with the way AEW books. They have been paired with good people for over three years now and AEW isn't exactly known for it's riveting midcard storylines. JB/Christian is really the best you get. I don't think MORE time in random midcard matches would help them. Triple H did get over but it was a different company and different time and I don't see AEW giving anybody momentum like that
I'm a big fan of Sammy and JB but they are not as good as Darby, and Darby isnt a believable world champ tbh. MJF is great but the booking around him getting the belt was so botched and weird. How did we go from the Fire Me you Mark Promo to this? A ton of the booking the past while has been wack to say the least and this story deosnt really excite me to watch the show. The Elite vs BCC stuff has been awesome so I'll tune in for that but this seems like filler to me
As a casual viewer the show is just super skippable these days. We had a title change and it still felt like a filler episode.
There’s a massive lack of interesting characters and good storylines. Good wrestling will only get you so far. I want compelling stories and guys that make me want to tune in.
I fast forward through pretty much 90% of the show these days. PPV’s are so good but Dynamite’s just feel so mid
Was Hobbs hot? He was gone for months, then they immediately gave him the title and a bunch of QT marshall stuff. I don't know if that constitutes hot.
Who ever thought featuring QT on a national television show was a good idea? He seems like a good dude, but he’s got all the charisma of a kid’s soccer coach.
I honestly can’t believe it when I see QT getting praised as heel here.
They say he’s great at getting booed, to me it’s just go away heat. He’s genuinely one of the blandest and boring wrestlers I’ve ever seen
People who say that also overlook that you can be a good hand and not horribly boring.
Dolph Ziggler and Bobby Roode are good hands at this stage in their career. Christopher Daniels, Jarrett, Billy Gunn are already employed and two of those three are already heels too who could actually help Hobbs on-screen and backstage.
QT has been around for almost four years, done absolutely nothing of note, has no memorable matches or feuds aside from engaging in Twitter slapfights and some hardcore fans still act like it's shocking when you say he's boring.
He's literally less over than a bowling shirt.
Probably shouldn’t focus your company around a bunch of junior heavyweights at best that can’t talk.
Probably shouldn’t cool off literally everyone that gets hot as soon as possible.
Oh well.
I haven't watched AEW in months. I'm in the 150K or so viewers that vanished. The presentation changes they started last fall were probably the biggest factor of why I dropped off. That combined with general repetitiveness was a bad combination.
AEW still has a ton of wrestlers that I like but there is something to be said about the show becoming more of a grind to watch week to week.
I feel sorry for anyone who bore witness to that awful 3 piles promo last night. I watched the truncated highlights version going around twitter today and I can’t even imagine what it must have been like at-length in real time. It’s like they told those guys to go out there and try to pull off a worked shoot and all we got was awkwardly wooden delivery of lines with no cohesion or order whatsoever. Everyone wants to say MJF is failing as champ, no shit. He’s got 3 anchors tied to his ass, and not a single one of them can talk well enough to take orders at a fucking burger king.
No one wants to see it, and the numbers bear it out.
The worked shoot (or attempt thereof) is one of the worst booking and promo crutches that AEW uses. As Heyman noted in an interview, the shoot only matters if you weave it into something that is actually going on eg. Matt, Edge, Lita not just oh I have matches every week and you don't because you're champion
You also need the right talent to do it. It's funny you cited Matt, Edge, Lita - the person who did the best in that worked shoot was Edge. The people who were never particularly stellar on the mic were not great. Matt famously floundered when given the chance and Edge destroyed him on the mic the following week and in the worked shoot call between them.
I think you have to be careful with how you protect your talent in these scenarios. Darby Alin I think is a star, but have to be cautious not to expose his weaknesses and focus on his strengths.
I skipped through the 10-minute segment on YouTube and think I got the gist of it, but that shit was *rough*. Idk what it was exactly, but nobody in that ring sounded convincing. Sounded like 3 teenagers doing a required assignment in a theater class that they only took so they could get the fine arts elective out of the way.
I can say with the most confidence I can muster that these are in fact numbers & they indicate the viewership of that show when it aired on television.
Not a big AEW fan (the fans turned me off from it), but its easy to see that they got a great roster, but TK cant book for shit
And concept of four pillars in AEW needs to be dropped
Just throwing this out here, but a lot of people are suggesting that the fact that they’re going to do a show at Wembley proves that their growth is fine.
I have no comments on whether or not that show is going to do well (I don’t care either way) but I imagine them doing Wembley has more to do with Tony’s financial resources than any evidence of growth.
Tony's financial resources are the only reason there is a promotion in the first place, so I don't think pinpointing that to other aspects is very relevant. I think Khan sees Wembley as something that not only can turn a profit with the gate, but it will also potentially enhance the growth in the UK and rest of Europe. I don't see it as an indication that there is "x" amount of growth with the promotion as a whole though. They clearly have a pretty established fanbase in Europe, though, and putting on a massive show for the first time on the continent is probably a smart business decision.
That hardcore AEW fanbase is damn reliable, but this company isn't growing in the least. Tony better keep them happy. Just because the NBA is on doesnt mean Dynamite should get this close to below 800k. They dont need to do things the WWE way or go and grab more WWE talent. What AEW does, their style, just isn't very good right now, IMO. It feels bland, tired, and just thrown together. The Powerhouse Hobbs run was atrocious, and the super flippy guys are just paint by numbers spot fests. Just wasn't, at least to me, a very good show last night.
ignoring the discourse for a minute, it is quite funny how consistent the 820-830k and 0.28 is when theres other shit going on that people would watch like news and sporting events. I guess that is truly the core AEW fanbase on Wednesdays with a Nielsen box or whatever
My favourite thing about these threads are always the : “not bad for going against….” Excuses.
The best is sometimes I don’t know if it’s serious or troll
You need more than just wrestling 4 pillars are good at wrestling and that's it. There is nothing special about them when most of the roster can do the as them. Mjf was good before he won the title now im bored with him.
Last night's aew was truly awful. The in ring promos were amateur hour, the ending beat down was botched bad, adam cole was handcuffed to nothing and just stood there like he was. The usual aew marks will defend it no matter what.
Weird episode of dynamite. Didnt let moments cook like wardlows victory and a awkward Britt/cole/jas segment. Hard to take britt being hurt and weak off a simple kendo stick seriously after all her gimmick matches
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last year: 0.37 930k
Jesus. More than viewers they should be worried about the demo. Something has clearly went wrong.
AEW Dynamite's demo is down 23.7 percent year-over-year. Through the first 16 weeks of 2022, they averaged a 0.38 rating in 18-49. In 2023, they are averaging a 0.29 in 18-49.
That's unreal. WWE were the one of the oldest shows on cable let alone wrestling and now they've gotten so much younger while AEW is so much older. WWE fires Jeff Jarrett, gets younger. AEW hires Jeff Jarrett, gets older Coincidence??????
I enjoy the sound of rain.
Is funny how the evolution of rating threads went from the perspective of AEW fans - Fuck Yeah N°1 in the demo surpassing the WWE, sooner than later we are going to beat them - Fuck yeah over 1 million viewers, demo doesnt matter - Fuck yeah number 1 on cable, viewers dont matter - Concern trolling too much? Since when ratings matter? Just enjoy the show
Jericho's stupid comments about how they will surpass Raw didn't help matters at all.
Don’t forget, “Next week could be a massacre.”
Out of the loop but what is that referring to?
I believe it was a Bryan Alvarez tweet predicting Dynamite would destroy Raw in the ratings.
Lmaooooo
[Indeed](https://i.imgur.com/IXrd2aw.jpg).
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t RAW do well over 1m that week while AEW barely broke 900k?
This is one of the most annoying things about this "war." TK and Jericho talk all this shit online and then certain trolls (certainly not all of their fans) double down on it. They start an argument that WWE leaning people were not interested in, but they talk so, so much shit. Like remember the people here after the one bad Raw a couple weeks ago (which had tremendous ratings btw)? Those cringey ass condescending posts? Then when they don't do as well as they asserted that they would, they get on the defensive and act like WWE fans are kicking AEW for no reason.
I’m an AEW fan primarily, but yeah, AEW fanbase has this weird breed of cultism in it. Anything dealing with popularity or general public they just don’t have a lot of reference points or awareness of how niche it is.
For sure, I've seen people get hyper defensive too and revert back to asking why demos and ratings even matter as long as they enjoy the product. Well, first it's always important for your product to grow. Second, you would reasonably want it to grow on the metrics that the company's owner himself told you were important.
I've been actually trying to get into AEW these past couple of days or so. Watched a couple PPVs an enjoyed them enough. Might start watching consistently but I can tell they're not on a hot streak at all right now. But some of the fans.....man they make it hard to want to join lol. The dooming and condescending posts that Raw were just awful. It felt like how it used to be on here when AEW first started. Just so much doom and gloom it's like some of these AEW fans were practically WAITING for WWE to fuck up so they can pounce. It's so weird.
> (certainly not all of their fans) You’re being too kind, it’s absolutely all of their fans. They have a warped mindset that AEW can do no wrong and fuck everybody who has even a slightly different opinion.
It's truly deranged at this point. Every single week, whatever was among the worst stuff on Dynamite will get criticized and then the AEW mob goes on the defense asap. Like this week people were criticizing the silly rope hops Komander was doing and of course AEW fans had to immediately go "SO YOU HATE WHEN THE UNDERTAKER DOES 'OLD SCHOOL' TOO??? BECAUSE THAT'S JUST AS STUPID!!" like bro can't we just all agree Kommander looked stupid and keep it moving? Not everything needs to be an argument
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This is on 🎯 lol
Don't forget to add the Cagematch ratings in there.
Booking sucks
That's literally the answer. The talent is there. The interest is there. The storytelling isn't. Constant surprise debuts, announcements, and nonsense title changes aren't cutting it anymore. Last night felt like a knockoff 2019 WWE. Tony has to realize by now that just booking cool matches isn't going to cut it. He wants to run back WCW, well, he needs an nWo. Not literally the organization, but a huge story that shakes up the whole show and feels fresh. Also, QT Marshall still getting TV time here in the year of our Lord 2023 is a wrestling crime.
They do have the talent but they just don't know how to use it. To me, the AEW upper mid/main even scene should be guys like Omega, Moxley, MJF, Hobbs, Wardlow, Danielson, Christian, Punk, Miro, Joe and maybe Swerve. That should be the core of their show, along with a good tag division built around FTR, The Gunn Club, Buddy and Brody, Butcher and the Blade and so on. But the way they're used is so bizarre. The amount of talentless, worthless wrestlers who get prominent time on this show is ludicrous. You've gut Miro sat at home while Action Andretti is given strong booking. It's so, so bad.
Tony is the king of that. And making matches where you know who will win 20 mins long. Aew needs more squashes. How are their stars supposed to shine when they can barely beat Andretti, yuta or komander.
There is a hard cap on the number of people who will watch a show just for "good wrestling." And even those people are starting to tune out.
Every time QT is on screen I think I’m seeing reruns of King of Queens.
I like QT when he wants to be the classic old school heel I don't like QT when he tries literally anything else. They took Hobbs from monster to monster factory.
I was checked out after the opening segment last night. Darby, Jungle Boy, and Sammy are great wrestlers but I don’t want to hear them talk right now. They’re all gonna be great some day, but that’s not today and that’s fine. MJF is great now, but that doesn’t mean the other three needs to be. The problem is there are no other faces right now that are main event level AND free for a story with MJF. Your biggest group of faces (BCC) just turned heel to feud with your other group of biggest faces (The Elite). They can’t go back to Ricky already and Cole just came back and needs to rack up some wins before moving on to MJF. The Elite/BCC needed the opener time and time slot, that’s the best story they have going right now. Also, the women have been running the same story for what feels like 3 months and I have no idea where they’re going with it. But you’re absolutely right, the booking right now sucks and that’s the biggest problem. Fix that, and I think the ratings rebound quick.
I have no proof of the drawing power of The Acclaimed aside from their merch and crowd pops, but I feel like they really dropped the ball taking the belts off them. When they were hot they should have been on Dynamite every wednesday in key quarters. They should let their good talkers actually talk more too, like Starks.
But TK is booker of the decade lol
Tony Khan just loves booking people to win in their respective 'hometowns'. So you get Britt going over solo against the entirety of the outcasts. Wardlow winning the title for the third time. Even though it makes no sense from a storyline perspective.
Defeating Hobbs, who only had the title because they were going on the west coast and they could let him when the title in his hometown. Good thing no one on the roster is from “parts unknown”
Hobbs won’t the title out of nowhere, did a couple of weeks of QTV then came back defended the title against a nobody then lost the title to Wardlow. All in about a month’s time. Wardlow has been completely wasted after the MJF feud and both he and Hobbs are ice cold. Such a waste.
Doing the Four Pillars thing (especially early on in the company’s lifespan) was a mistake on AEW’s part, for a couple of reasons: 1) The whole point of the OG Four Pillars was that they were what the company was built around, and they were keeping it strong and stable. Y’know, like pillars. They weren’t the future of the company, they *were* the company. If Sammy or Jungle Boy left AEW for whatever reason, would the complexion of the company change all that drastically? 2) If the four of them don’t become top level stars in your company, then the reference doesn’t work on the most basic level. It essentially becomes an albatross for them if they don’t live up to that hype. Right now, the only one who’s a top guy is MJF, and the only other one close is Darby. Ffs, Jungle Boy just got done being the third most interesting guy in his feud with Christian. If you were absolutely dead set on adhering to this Four Pillars thing, then you could easily have had Starks, Hobbs, or Wardlow fill a couple of those slots, provided you book them right. There’d be history and connections between the pillars then, much like originals, whose careers were practically intertwined. TL;DR: doing the Four Pillars thing was fuckin stupid, and it’s only been a detriment so far. Also they should never have split Team Taz, there, I said it.
Facts. They could have waited a bit before crowning anyone a "pillar" of the promotion. You can't just claim that; it has to come organically.
You’re missing reason 3: None of these AEW guys could lace Misawa’s boots. And that’s not even a jab at them. Tony just had to compare his creations to the greatest wrestlers of all time when they were barely out of the bingo hall.
Well that goes without saying, there’s very few in history who could get on the level of the OG Pillars, even on the Pillars’ worst days. To your point, like I said earlier, it’s basically an albatross for the AEW Pillars to be even tangentially likened to the originals. If they don’t reach transcendent levels, then you’ve effectively set them up for failure.
The worked shoots are getting incredibly tiring at this point. It’s happening at least once a week now and it’s been a long time since they were necessary. It’s poor writing and exacerbates how uninteresting the stories are in modern AEW. Adam Cole’s promo on Jericho was essentially taken word for word from Danielson’s last year. That segment had just as many problems as the opening segment in my opinion, but it was covered by more charismatic workers. They have a money program with BCC vs the Elite, hopefully TK pivots soon to making that the focal point of the show. It’s so much better than anything else at the moment. It just feels like Tony Khan signed Jay White because he had to. AEW has a smart audience, but you can’t assume they all know everything about Jay White. You had to immediately let everyone know he was a big deal and they’ve missed that chance. It doesn’t feel like TK fumbling the opportunity, but more so that he doesn’t see Jay White as a guy he wants at the top of his promotion.
>It just feels like Tony Khan signed Jay White because he had to. AEW has a smart audience, but you can’t assume they all know everything about Jay White. You had to immediately let everyone know he was a big deal and they’ve missed that chance. It doesn’t feel like TK fumbling the opportunity, but more so that he doesn’t see Jay White as a guy he wants at the top of his promotion. Treating Jay White like this should disqualify anyone from being a wrestling booker. He is more talented, with a bigger ceiling than anyone else on the roster, and Tony has him ducking a WWE jobber who has never gotten a crowd reaction.
It’s cute that people feared a feud with the Miz when that’s so much more high profile than Shawn “I swear that I was out every minute on personal leave” Spears.
Miz would be better than this mess, but I don't even get why people were saying that to begin with. WWE went all out for Cody Rhodes debut. I have a lot of complaints about WWE, but they try to make their new stars look like a big deal.
I lot of folks slept on Miz vs Seth this week, me being one of them, and they absolutely cooked.
> The worked shoots are getting incredibly tiring at this point. Makes me pretty worried for when they do bring Punk back...because the ONLY angle bringing him back makes any sense is a series of worked shoots. Its Jericho trying to keep him out of the company. Its him bitching about the slights by The Elite. Its them leaning into Brawl Out. All of which feel like they're gonna devolve to some Vince-level writing the way most of last night went.
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Can someone explain why Jay White wrestled someone who we've never heard of before then ran away from Shawn Spears? Aren't we supposed to be taking this big free agent signing seriously?
Don’t forget paired with Juice Robinson….and I’m a NJPW watcher too, so I get why peoples opinions here are skewed….but objectively for the majority of the fan base, or the base you’re trying to attract, Juice may be the lamest wrestler on the roster…. From the camera botch on his surprise entrance through last night it’s been a master class in how to completely fuck him up….Jay may wind up fine, but if he does, it’s because he’s that damn good….they currently aren’t doing him any favors.
It’s amazing to me that NJPW is still partnering with AEW after signing both Jay and Juice. Tony left them with scraps and turned one of their biggest investments into a geek overnight.
I’m honestly watching AEW’s relationships over the next few months. I’m a big fan of them doing crossover shows, but I feel like a lot of the love is a one way street. Your talent can take titles from other promotions but they don’t really give back. They used to offer wrestlers to Indy promotions but lately have been scaling back or canceling last minute making the other promos look like fools. Now they are taking talent from other promotions. People are already asking when Vikingo will be All Elite. Konnan would be a fool to give him up.
It's a one way street even when it hurts AEW. Kenny got his heat back instantly at WK. So does Tony capitalize on it? No, they barely mention it and it's back to business with AEW Kenny.
I still don’t get them not mentioning the IWGP US championship more. Hell, I wonder if they’ll even pull the trigger and have OC lose his title at Forbidden Door.
It feels like ego to me. If Kenny's one of my top guys and another promotion makes him look like a god, I'm going to take that ball and run with it. The lack of spotlight makes me feel Tony was self-conscious over NJPW handling Kenny better than he's able to.
Should be booked like Cody was last year before the injury. Big deal, comes to the ring afraid of nobody.
AEW Jay: https://preview.redd.it/11ky5818j5va1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=671f2946b064cd81ef41b3e180d67b0f6326b0e8
But I thought AEW was the perfect home for Switchblade and he would just get lost in the shuffle in WWE?
I didn't see Dynamite yet but just in general I honestly think Jay White would have been WAY better served going to WWE. He's going to be just another wrestler in AEW, but in WWE I really think he could be a star.
Someone said it best a few weeks ago, and I agree : "Jay's ceiling was higher in WWE, but his floor was also lower". Meaning he could of been a walking kiwi stereotype, or a huge threat. I still fantasy book him as winning the US belt from Cena the RAW after Mania :( (yes it would hurt Theory... but honestly winning against Cena didn't help him too much either)
Because the smarks will eat it up.
I think it's pretty clear that, in the absence of one-off "dream matches" or the return of CM Punk, they're down to the core audience now and even some of them are slowly losing interest
What's the point of getting invested when within 4 weeks the wrestler you were behind isn't then seen for a month? Wardlow was white hot, they threw cold water on him and he disappeared. Miro? Bryan Danielson was the best heel in the company and then joined the BCC as an almost silent moving part, lost a bunch of matches and was only redeemed through an incredible match with MJF (because how can you miss).
Tony should give Jungle Boy more promo time, that would definitely turn things around
The only thing turning if that happened would be the channel.
That 4 pillars segment was embarrassing. I’m so tired of work/shoot bullshit. It’s so fucking lame. Y2J and Cole felt like the title scene more than the 4 pillars stuff. It was going well but then it turned into a wwe promo train with people with no charisma. Darby has been great except last night where he was out of character and sounded petty. Hobbs and wardlow is a fucking mess. The BCC was cool but it needs more time. And Jay White should’ve fucking murdered Kommander, Kommander is cool but my god he’s sloppy and his shit takes way too long. Edit: whoever sent me a Reddit Cares is hilarious. It’s ok to criticize things you enjoy haha. It’s not that deep.
I couldn’t help but notice how many times all of them didn’t just turn their backs to the hard camera, but were blocking the camera’s view of the guy they were talking to. Don’t get me wrong, I hate how geared to the hard camera WWE is, but Jesus Christ. At least have *some* idea of where the camera is.
> Don’t get me wrong, I hate how geared to the hard camera WWE is, but Jesus Christ. At least have some idea of where the camera is. Hilariously enough, the hard camera was flipped for last nights show...which might explain some of this. The entrance ramp ran "stage right" instead of its usual "stage left" to the hard cam.
The opening segment was channel changing bad, none of the three they put out there are people you want cutting LONG promos. Also Jay White is kinda confounding, they debut him in a two second backstage segment months ago. Then announce him as some new major dude and have him 50/50 his first match with Tony Khans new lucha flavor of the week. The Cole/Baker segment was also embarrassing, probably wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so overacted and using shoot names. I agree that the BCC are better then when they were faces. Other than MJF and the sprinkling of Hobbs/Starks/Wardlow, BCC is the only thing I've been looking forward to.
Adam cole’s wrist is so small they only used one cuff
> I agree that the BCC are better then when they were faces. Yes and no. I actually like the general idea of the heel path they've taken (and its what they clearly were trending towards with Regal before he split), but they're getting REAL lazy with the same beat down week after week. And this week, with The Elite calling them out and still getting jumped...it just makes your faces look inept, even if they won out that segment. Also, really doesnt help that the womens title scene is all around one story, meanwhile anyone not involved cant get any matches because Jade hasnt had a legit title defense in like...5 months?
This is the same crowd who would be chanting Fire Russo for writing these bland and stupid work/shoots but I guess since it's tony khan, we'll ignore it.
I read And Jay as Anna Jay should've fucking murdered Kommander and I thought I missed something last night
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Woof the pillars are all a bust bar mjf. Jungle boy and Sammy have been cold for over a year. Move on
Darby is the only one the crowd cares about and only one that can talk. Hopefully he wins this stupid 3 man tournament. Can't believe I just wrote that. 3. man. tournament. Fuck, Tony is so insane.
Cody Rhodes, MJF, and the Elite were the real pillars of AEW lol And now Cody's a huge star for another company, MJF's awful title run has cooled him down after being white hot for a while, and the Elite are a love or hate amongst wrestling fans Calling anyone other than their biggest stars their "pillars" was always going to go wrong unless they were locks to be superstars
Clearly MJF is drawing as AEW champion
My favorite part of the Pillars promo is when the crowd cheered because MJF was coming to save us from those 3 on the mic.
Still the same 800-900k audience. I don't see how they are gonna grow without huge stars that have mainstream appeal and better booking.
Well, luckily, Jay White spend 12 minutes selling for Komander so he's poised for a big run!
Looks like they will need new 4 pillars.
Wardlow and Hobbs have the potential to be legit stars imo. But letting them fuck around in the midcard in favor of giving Jungle Boy and Sammy heavyweight title exposure is clearly the better option.
Ricky, Swerve, Darby, and Wardlow. Wardlow should have the biggest beef with MJF
No one is a draw.
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I think you're right...I was thinking Wardlow vs MJF, but why isn't it any combination of Mox vs MJF, Danielson vs MJF part II, or Kenny vs MJF? Now that the trios titles are off the Elite, couldn't Kenny work against MJF? Is he their biggest babyface singles star now?
They completely failed to capitalize on Pentagon Jr.
Bryan Danielson was one, then they decided he had to lose a bunch of title matches in a row, and now he's just another guy.
He could still draw easily more than any of the pillars could if given the placement and story. No one wants to see the best wrestler in the world be wasted on the mid card or talking about flaccid penis more often than he wins matches.
This title reign has done more harm then good for MJF.
Bidding war of 2024 is turning into a fire sale. I love MJF, but the title is hurting him.
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This is why it makes no sense for Wardlow to win back the TNT title, he should have been gunning for MJF's belt as he knows he can beat him.
Bidding war is gonna be between AEW and impact at this rate....
More like AEW Khan and ROH Khan
Why would anyone watch a guy who constantly tells people he wants to leave for the competitor?
Tony wanted to do heel ECW Rob Van Dam, but AEW's not ECW and there isn't a history of people jumping ship to another company barring Cody
I don't feel like its an MJF problem more than a booking problem. All the sudden, in kayfabe, MJF is best friends with TK after leaking his phone calls and no threatening to leave for greener pastures.
A lackluster build to the Danielson feud, right after Danielson was cooled off by the BBC stuff. (I didn't even think it was possible to cool off Danielson, but somehow that madman did it.) Followed by this awful four way feud.
If AEW and the diehard fans want to hold Dynamite to a standard, last night’s show was below any sort of high standard. Shit happens, but I’m shocked seeing so many people avoid the obvious in trying to defend it. You should want a show to be at its best week to week, rather than lie and pretend like it’s okay
I thought for sure they’d get over a million with main event-ready, extremely charismatic guys like Sammy and Jungle Boy getting mic time.
MJF dubbing Jungle Boy and Sammy "pillars" was the worst thing that could happen to their careers.
Comparing these guys to Kawada and Misawa did them no favors.
Hard agree. I actively hate it now tbh the 3 of them are really solid wrestlers and MJF is pretty great, but they have nothing on the Four pillars of heaven. Wrestling is subjective but those 4 are imo better than any other wrestlers ever besides maybe Kurt Angle but that's my personal opinion. MJF is a level above the other 3 and even he I think isnt as good as a number of guys in the company right now. He should be defending against challengers that can believably be world champion especially on such a stacked roster
>Hard agree. I actively hate it now tbh those 4 are really solid wrestlers and MJF is pretty great, but they have nothing on the Four pillars of heaven. Wrestling is subjective but those 4 are imo better than any other wrestlers ever besides maybe Kurt Angle but that's my personal opinion. MJF is a level above the other 3 and even he I think isnt as good as a number of guys in the company right now. He should be defending against challengers that can believably be world champion especially on such a stacked roster Yep. I don't even think it's subjective to say the AJPW Pillars are better than AEW "Pillars". That's like comparing Tom Brady to a second string college QB. That branding was the first thing that made me think Tony was delusional about the quality of his promotion.
A fatal four way as a Dynanite main event sounds fun, as a PPV main event I think only MJF vs Darby is even feasible since they had such a great match before. But MJF should be defending against any of the other top guys in the company right now instead. AEW has a very stacked roster at the top but JB and Sammy are solid midcarders at best
I'm wondering is the whole pillar thing based on their ages? Like why wasn't Hangman considered a pillar if age is a factor, he is only like a year older than Sammy and Darby
Hangman, MJF, Darby, Ricky. That would have been a 4 pillars that made sense. Sammy and Jungle Boy are good, but they aren't it.
I seriously think MFJ was just trying to say foundation but said pillars without the AJPW context coming to his brain. And then Tony and the IWC went straight to the AJPW Pillars like dumbasses.
That open in ring promo was embarrassing to say the least.
110K left in that first quarter
None of those guys except for Mjf come across as main eventers.
the plight of wanting to push someone new and give your heavy hitters something new while also just picking the absolute wrong guys. Tony is definitely in tune with the IWC because he's pushing guys he/fans like rather than pushing someone with credibility. Someone you look at and think could be a genuine threat to your world champion. The IWC wants everyone they like to get big pushes and if they don't then they're being wasted, creative bad, etc, etc. WWE managed to make Logan Paul feel like a credible threat to Roman Reigns in the span of a couple of weeks. AEW is still trying to make Sammy feel legit. It's like me when I use to play SmackDown vs Raw and I'd book Edge vs Paul London for the WWE championship in the main event just because I use to like Brian Kendrick and Paul London back in the day.
Yeah but in WWE's real scenarios Edge, or whomever it is puts over their challenger big time. Liv Morgan was floundering the mid card till her feud with Becky. WWE and Becky in 2 weeks made her look like a legit threat to Becky's reign. MJF is not at that place yet. Someone like Punk, Danielson, maybe Kingston are. There is a reason why the belt goes to someone credible first. It takes a credible person to make others legit. After you do that, you have options. They brought in a ready main eventer in Jay White and have him doing fuck all. At some point the IWC that looks cradling Tony Khan's balls have to hold him accountable.
I honestly think Tony’s doubled down on it being a niche product because he focuses on the positive comments/voices….and as the viewers have slowly dwindled. It’s the niche minority voice that is loudest and the only one really still saying how amazing he and the show are.
And none of those guys should be in the main event scene with a roster this stacked. I get the “Pillars” idea is cute or whatever but this shit is way too forced.
The pillars idea would have worked if they were more consistent with the booking through the years, but besides MJF none of them have interacted in a meaningful way with the main event or upper midcard scene, so them suddenly being labelled as equals to MJF just because fans desperately wanted to recreate an smark term that they dont even understand due cultural differences is stupid
I don't think it's a booking thing. It's a jungleboy quite literally has no charisma thing. His big hair dinosaur thing is over, time to find himself now. Tho I'm not sure he ever will !!!! And that's a fact!!
If I had a dime for every time this sub claimed Jungle Boy had a "star-making performance" (usually in matches he lost), I'd give this comment gold.
Tonight Jungle Boy became a Jungle Man!
Man that's because being good in the ring can only get you so far. Yes, in places like this it can get you a ton of attention but most viewers only care so much about 'match quality.' You gotta be charismatic and have a good promo to break out. Take MJF. The man doesn't wrestle hard or fast and, if anything, wrestles like he's in WWE but he's beloved for his ring work and promo ability.
Would've been a better idea if the pillars had some sort of decent build, some of those dudes were not even in a good storyline, so when they are about to clash it just feels meh. NXT build Carmelo and Bron for a year before they could face off, and it came out as one of the most anticipated matches in NXT just because they too were both pillars, but booked right.
those two are main event level though, like I could see Hayes and Bron going for the big belts, can't say the same for JB/Darby/SG
Imagine having Miro on the sidelines and shoving unready guys into the main event picture lol.
I have really soured on the pillars being labeled as such. The actual four pillars of heaven from AJPW are literal GOAT tier wrestlers and while I like the 4 AEW pillars they are not even close at all and probably never will be to those 4. Even MJF imo is having a few good segments as champ but it has felt very underwhelming. Coming from the FIRE ME promo to this? It feels like filler while the actual main event scene is having a great storyline. Kenny, Hangman, Punk, Mox, Danielson, Christian, Jericho, Miro, Eddie, the amazing Lucha talent, OC, and Dark Order are the reasons I tune in to AEW. I know that doesnt mean much to the wider fanbase but I just dont feel like the fans are very into JB and Sammy like they are MJF and Darby. This storyline indeed feels very forced when there are many fresh matchups we could see take on MJF instead. Why have MJF ve booked like Brock Lesnar? He isnt a special attraction and its bs that the other world champs had title matches on weekly TV fairly often but MJF is booked like hes WWE champion. Not very fun as a fan tbh
JB looks embarrassing, Darby's demeanor is embarrassing, and Tongue Boy sounds embarrassing.
Is 4 pillars supposed to reflect future of AEW/Wrestling? Because if yes, then I'm sorry, but who the hell would think that this 4 guys would be wrestling next Cena/Orton/Lesnar/Batista. Ok I understand MJF, he is definitely haves IT. Kinda understand Darby, with his wrestling style. But other 2... just Jezz, none of them should ever be higher than upper low card.
Yeah, Darby has a unique style about him where he should not need to cut long in ring promos.
4 Pillars is an ode to the 4 Pillars of AJPW. I’m not as huge on Akira Taue as the others but Misawa, Kawada and Kobashi are literal godlike figures in Japanese Wrestling. I see what AEW is going for but it not even close.
Yes that's what makes it freaking embarrassing. They should be humbled for even trying to present these guys as on par...I don't know how to say this in a more respectful way...but they just aren't there yet and who knows if they ever will be.
Imagine if Triple H got his major main event push before he got that rub from teaming with HBK. As Hunter Hearst Helmsley he was a multi time Intercontinental champion, but he was still a ways away from becoming The Game. Sammi/Darby/JB need more time to cook in the midcard, especially with how stacked the main event is with stars. Doesn't make a lick of sense to run this story now.
Do they? I don't feel like Sammy/Darby/JB are going to really get any further in the midcard than they are now, with the way AEW books. They have been paired with good people for over three years now and AEW isn't exactly known for it's riveting midcard storylines. JB/Christian is really the best you get. I don't think MORE time in random midcard matches would help them. Triple H did get over but it was a different company and different time and I don't see AEW giving anybody momentum like that
I'm a big fan of Sammy and JB but they are not as good as Darby, and Darby isnt a believable world champ tbh. MJF is great but the booking around him getting the belt was so botched and weird. How did we go from the Fire Me you Mark Promo to this? A ton of the booking the past while has been wack to say the least and this story deosnt really excite me to watch the show. The Elite vs BCC stuff has been awesome so I'll tune in for that but this seems like filler to me
As a casual viewer the show is just super skippable these days. We had a title change and it still felt like a filler episode. There’s a massive lack of interesting characters and good storylines. Good wrestling will only get you so far. I want compelling stories and guys that make me want to tune in. I fast forward through pretty much 90% of the show these days. PPV’s are so good but Dynamite’s just feel so mid
It's why I stopped watching, the stories after Hangman won the title have been mostly misses.
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The Commander walking the ropes as his opponent is lifeless for 5 minutes waiting for the landing took out 100k I bet
I respect them cooling off Hobbs and Jay White in 1 day
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Have you heard of **KOMANDER?**
Was Hobbs hot? He was gone for months, then they immediately gave him the title and a bunch of QT marshall stuff. I don't know if that constitutes hot.
They really gave him the title, instantly paired him with a clown act like QT and then proceeded to lose said title weeks later. Laughable booking.
Has anyone else in AEW had more failed gimmicks than QT? He’s on like his 5th gimmick and still ain’t over.
Who ever thought featuring QT on a national television show was a good idea? He seems like a good dude, but he’s got all the charisma of a kid’s soccer coach.
> Who ever thought featuring QT on a national television show was a good idea? ?? he helps run my wrestling school, friend
QT. He’s in AEW creative.
That’s some Booker of the Year quality work there
I honestly can’t believe it when I see QT getting praised as heel here. They say he’s great at getting booed, to me it’s just go away heat. He’s genuinely one of the blandest and boring wrestlers I’ve ever seen
He's great for the lower card, but Hobbs is not (or at least shouldn't be) the lower card.
Even if he wasnt hot, last night was like spraying him with a hose in a freezer
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People who say that also overlook that you can be a good hand and not horribly boring. Dolph Ziggler and Bobby Roode are good hands at this stage in their career. Christopher Daniels, Jarrett, Billy Gunn are already employed and two of those three are already heels too who could actually help Hobbs on-screen and backstage. QT has been around for almost four years, done absolutely nothing of note, has no memorable matches or feuds aside from engaging in Twitter slapfights and some hardcore fans still act like it's shocking when you say he's boring. He's literally less over than a bowling shirt.
Jungle Boy and Sammy Guevara are fucking embarrassing
Not really the kind of numbers you give a fifth show to is it?
Probably shouldn’t focus your company around a bunch of junior heavyweights at best that can’t talk. Probably shouldn’t cool off literally everyone that gets hot as soon as possible. Oh well.
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Cody Rhodes was the actual pillar, ever since he left everything started falling apart
I haven't watched AEW in months. I'm in the 150K or so viewers that vanished. The presentation changes they started last fall were probably the biggest factor of why I dropped off. That combined with general repetitiveness was a bad combination. AEW still has a ton of wrestlers that I like but there is something to be said about the show becoming more of a grind to watch week to week.
I feel sorry for anyone who bore witness to that awful 3 piles promo last night. I watched the truncated highlights version going around twitter today and I can’t even imagine what it must have been like at-length in real time. It’s like they told those guys to go out there and try to pull off a worked shoot and all we got was awkwardly wooden delivery of lines with no cohesion or order whatsoever. Everyone wants to say MJF is failing as champ, no shit. He’s got 3 anchors tied to his ass, and not a single one of them can talk well enough to take orders at a fucking burger king. No one wants to see it, and the numbers bear it out.
The worked shoot (or attempt thereof) is one of the worst booking and promo crutches that AEW uses. As Heyman noted in an interview, the shoot only matters if you weave it into something that is actually going on eg. Matt, Edge, Lita not just oh I have matches every week and you don't because you're champion
You also need the right talent to do it. It's funny you cited Matt, Edge, Lita - the person who did the best in that worked shoot was Edge. The people who were never particularly stellar on the mic were not great. Matt famously floundered when given the chance and Edge destroyed him on the mic the following week and in the worked shoot call between them. I think you have to be careful with how you protect your talent in these scenarios. Darby Alin I think is a star, but have to be cautious not to expose his weaknesses and focus on his strengths.
I skipped through the 10-minute segment on YouTube and think I got the gist of it, but that shit was *rough*. Idk what it was exactly, but nobody in that ring sounded convincing. Sounded like 3 teenagers doing a required assignment in a theater class that they only took so they could get the fine arts elective out of the way.
I can say with the most confidence I can muster that these are in fact numbers & they indicate the viewership of that show when it aired on television.
I love the smell of fresh bread.
The Pillars are AEW’s fetch.
I wonder if the ratings will prompt them to put the Elite on Saturdays and Punk on Wednesdays
Not a big AEW fan (the fans turned me off from it), but its easy to see that they got a great roster, but TK cant book for shit And concept of four pillars in AEW needs to be dropped
Just throwing this out here, but a lot of people are suggesting that the fact that they’re going to do a show at Wembley proves that their growth is fine. I have no comments on whether or not that show is going to do well (I don’t care either way) but I imagine them doing Wembley has more to do with Tony’s financial resources than any evidence of growth.
Tony's financial resources are the only reason there is a promotion in the first place, so I don't think pinpointing that to other aspects is very relevant. I think Khan sees Wembley as something that not only can turn a profit with the gate, but it will also potentially enhance the growth in the UK and rest of Europe. I don't see it as an indication that there is "x" amount of growth with the promotion as a whole though. They clearly have a pretty established fanbase in Europe, though, and putting on a massive show for the first time on the continent is probably a smart business decision.
That hardcore AEW fanbase is damn reliable, but this company isn't growing in the least. Tony better keep them happy. Just because the NBA is on doesnt mean Dynamite should get this close to below 800k. They dont need to do things the WWE way or go and grab more WWE talent. What AEW does, their style, just isn't very good right now, IMO. It feels bland, tired, and just thrown together. The Powerhouse Hobbs run was atrocious, and the super flippy guys are just paint by numbers spot fests. Just wasn't, at least to me, a very good show last night.
ignoring the discourse for a minute, it is quite funny how consistent the 820-830k and 0.28 is when theres other shit going on that people would watch like news and sporting events. I guess that is truly the core AEW fanbase on Wednesdays with a Nielsen box or whatever
My favourite thing about these threads are always the : “not bad for going against….” Excuses. The best is sometimes I don’t know if it’s serious or troll
The Power Rangers Movie is my new favorite "going against" opponent.
I enjoy playing video games.
Goldar doesn't just job for anyone
original movie was a banger tho haha.
A movie on Netflix that you can watch anytime… just happen to watching during AEW time slot
You need more than just wrestling 4 pillars are good at wrestling and that's it. There is nothing special about them when most of the roster can do the as them. Mjf was good before he won the title now im bored with him.
Weak pillars. Weak foundation.
Last night's aew was truly awful. The in ring promos were amateur hour, the ending beat down was botched bad, adam cole was handcuffed to nothing and just stood there like he was. The usual aew marks will defend it no matter what.
They either had comically oversized handcuffs or Adam has a really thin wrist because it looked to me like his wrist was in the same cuff as the rope
They handcuffed his wrist to the rope and it just looked weird. Must have gotten some gimmicked handcuffs for size as it looked weird
Pillars in the mud
Weird episode of dynamite. Didnt let moments cook like wardlows victory and a awkward Britt/cole/jas segment. Hard to take britt being hurt and weak off a simple kendo stick seriously after all her gimmick matches
Oh please, let’s add another show on saturdays
All Punk Wrestling Presents The CM Punk Fun Time Wrestling Collision with FTR.
I prefer ThunderPunk featuring Thunder Rosa and CM Punk.