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I never got the “he shouldn’t kill Sentinel thing!” Like yeah it was definitely brutal but what happened to everyone hating Sentinel for killing Ironhide and nearly enslaving humanity?
Legally speaking killing a defenseless and injured enemy, especially a commander, is a war crime and a violation of the Geneva conventions.
Weather it was wrong to do so is up them
Personally I don’t but that’s due to me liking a story to be thematically consistent (i.e. an Optimus who is presented as more morally right than the ‘cons, with nobody questions his actions, should not be committing war crimes)
Cybertronians didnt sign the Geneva Convention, nor are they bound by it's rules. Also, the Decepticons are known to be liars, thieves, killers, and who knows what other God-forsaken crimes. If he didnt kill Sentinel, who's to say he wouldnt regret it? He'd come back just to kill them all.
In a war like the ome between the Decepticons and the Autobots, not confirming kills is a huge no-no. It's the equivalent of giving your enemy (known for coming back to do the same ol' thing again and again) the chance to come back and stab you in the back for your "kindness."
Bayverse Optimus has every reason to want the Decepticons dead. Like. . . .in pieces. They're the scourge (no pun intended) of the universe. A rabid dog able to consume entire races (and planets, if we want to pull from TLK). What do you do when a rabid dog attacks you (and hundreds of innocents)? You put it down, no matter how vicious the way you do it might be. (Also, after Sentinel's betrayal, he's super paranoid and cracks down on all enemies with an iron fist. Understandable.)
No you are not. There are no legal consequences for not killing a murderer, there are however many MANY penalties for killing them including 1st or 2nd degree murder, vigilante justice, and many more.
If someone kills are person in front of you, you are better off letting them walk away and keeping yourself safe before reporting it to the proper authorities than to attack them and possibly get yourself hurt or killed.
Laws exist for a reason and sometimes it’s to keep people safe from themselves.
People like you are the reason characters like the joker still exist.
The law can be wrong, it has been, and will often continue to be.
Edit: dude blocked me, so I can't respond to the others
To be fair though, the Gotham police and prisons are to blame. Batman brings him in like 50 times a week, and yet they never execute him for his crimes.
But I get what you mean. Bayverse Optimus is the dude in Gotham that wants the Joker dead.
If we're applying actual logic here, the reason the Joker still exists is because he's Batman's most marketable villain and it makes more money to keep him around than to ever permanently kill him off. If that didn't apply I can guarantee *someone* would have killed the clown years ago.
Why are we applying human laws relating to criminal offences TO AN ALIEN, RACIST, GENOCIDAL, MANIAC WHO TRIED TO ENSLAVE THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE JUST BECAUSE IT WAS CONVENIENT SLAVE LABOR?
Or to The Fallen, another racist genocidal maniac who wanted to KILL all humans just because he fucking hated Earth... as a planet... He just had a grudge cause he was a selfish dick. Mad at his brothers for not letting him commit this exact genocide a few thousand years back or so. Mind you Megatron isn't much better than these 2, tho his death in DOTM is more on the hands of Bay, cause of the leaked ending thing that happened, so that's just bad writing. But to everything else, realistically, humans would absolutely BEG Prime to execute Sentinel, The Fallen and Megatron and if he refused they'd do it themselves first chance they get
My apologies, I wasn’t trying to stop the conversation however I’m done arguing about the morality of a bunch of pixels on a screen. As such, I choose to walk away and not continue this argument. Thank you for letting me know it blocks the conversation as well. Either way it won’t matter, I’m blocking both of you. Goodbye you hypocrite of a brick.
Not going to get involved with this because I really am just done with the bayverse arguments, but man the Skybound comics have been incredible so far.
I agree that people give Bay Prime more depth than the writers of those films ever meant to. But can people just say they like a character without shitting on another?
Transformers fans will forever be traumatized over Bayformers being what the grand majority of people think of when they hear Transformers, and will dedicate their life to whining about it in perpetuity.
Can you blame him? He's fighting people who don't use logic.
Also he's not the guy who started being combative as that was OOP.
So he's being a defensive brick
I am not questioning if they were right to begin or continue an argument, mere pointing out that they’re username ironic given their words. If they wish to be argumentative then they can be argumentative, it is merely ironic that they chose a name which says they are not. It is an interesting yet insignificant hypocrisy and nothing more.
Also I wouldn’t call anyone in this situation illogical as there are no facts about Optimus’ mental state.
There are assumptions that can be made by analyzing his actions, but there is nothing stated by the films nor the production team that confirms or denies anything.
For all intensive purposes both sides are right which will lead to never ending arguments and debates over a decade and a half later.
Bro you didn't read the comments, don't come out here with a mental diagnosis like you're a psychiatrist.
Also don't make a separate thread, that's repetitive and waste time
(Imagine Sentinel singing it to Optimus)
"Let it go, Let it go. Don't hold it back anymore. Here I stand, ready to enslave humans, let the war rage on.
The bloodshed never bothered me anyway."
Technically, he tried to end the war by meeting up with Megatron, unlike Optimus.
Then he crashed on the moon while Megatron crashed in ice. Yes, they are apparently horrible pilots. Their plan was to bring cybertron to earth, so they can rebuild it. Both autobots and decepticons together. The issue is that Sentinel betrayed the autobot moral code by letting a different species suffer for their well being.
But that's why he is such an interesting character. He isn't just plain good or evil. And he makes the audience question both Optimus and Megatrons morals to a certain degree.
Ultimately, Sentinel chose to exile the Autobots, or those who remained after his slaughter, he didn't just betray their code, he completely betrayed them.
As Optimus said, Sentinel betrayed himself. Sentinel Prime, tho well intentioned, is a hypocrite that lost sight of his true goal in it's pursuit. He taught Optimus that "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" yet for the good of Cybertron he was willing to take that right away from a whole species, one smaller than him, weaker than him. He betrayed the Autobots by "becoming racist" or more specifically preying on a race weaker than theirs, ergo breaking their moral code and by cutting a SECRET deal with the leader of their enemies that brutalised them for eons. He betrayed Optimus by... well this one's obvious, he killed his best friend by shooting him in the back. Sentinel betrayed his values, his friends, his soldiers, his family, for the good of a world that he'd end up alone in, because everyone he cares about would either never join him and rather leave for the stars forever or be slaughtered by the Decepticons for opposing them. Sentinel Prime betrayed himself.
Im sorry but like "its not like earth has prisons strong enough to hold sentinel" didnt we get a whole montage in TLK of decepticons being released from said prisons??
Tbh I think people just need to chill out, we can make jokes and shit but constantly shitting on one thing and using anything new that comes out as a new weapon against it is kinda cringe. People can have their own opinions and like or dislike things but like, man doesn’t using a cool comic as a bludgeon to shit on something else devalue the cool comic you like??
Then why the hell is it a point of discussion? It didn't happen, so it shouldn't be relevant. That's like me awarding Rise of the Beasts 4 extra points because of the cut Transit scenes, it makes no sense.
Facts say that Bayverse Optimus is a war criminal
Logic says that I should not trust or like a war criminal due to them committing acts that are deemed too cruel for war. This is further exemplified by the popular opinion that war is inherently cruel, thus making war criminals even more cruel than an average criminal. As such there is a strong case for disliking bayverse Optimus due his inhumane treatment of his enemies which make him a war criminal which is considered an especially heinous title in modern society.
>As such there is a strong case for disliking bayverse Optimus due his inhumane treatment of his enemies.
To make a point for Bayverse Optimus.
The decepticons are monsters who eat other cybertronians. They made a deal with the humans and then immediately crossed them, making them war criminals.
With their attack on Chicago, they showed that you can't trust them, as they will lie and betray to get their way.
Furthermore, Optimus, Brother to Megatron, Son of Sentinel, without truly being related, knows them very well, he was acting with the knowledge that they will betray the humans again, that they will nuke a city, send a minster drill rampaging through it, and enslave humans again.
All Optimus did was rid the galaxy of two war criminals.
See i dont fucking like bayverse dissers that just say "omgggg optimun pride is bloodthirsty monster❗️❗️❗️❗️omg why❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️" LIKE SHUT UP
Let me get 1 thing out of the way. I'm not saying micheal bay wrote him perfect (trust me.), but what i am going to say is how bayverse optimus isnt all monster.
Bayverse optimus prime is a more complex version, character wise. Instead of your usual emotionally perfect, perfect mental state optimus prime, bayverse optimus is more complex. He has flaws. He isnt emotionally perfect. He feels anger, and that anger can take control of him. He saw his old friend, ratchet get killed by HUMANS! *HUMANS*, THE SAME SPECIES THAT HE SPENT HIS TIME SAVING FROM GUESS WHAT? The evil decepticons who couldnt give a fuck about them. His other old friend, ironhide, gets executed by sentinel prime via a cosmic rust cannon. Guess who sentinel was to optimus? If you guessed "long term mentor that's been there for optimus for years", then you'd be correct! Not only does sentinel turn ironhide into dust, he almost kills the one who he mentored FOR YEARS. Wanna know who he mentored for years? OPTIMUS FUCKING PRIME.
Alright i'm done with my rannnn,,, wait wait wait wait, i can smell the "but what about the fallen's death?"
The fallen built the star harvestor. Wanna know what the star harvestor does? Absorb stars. What is the sun? A star. Wanna know what happens when earth has no sun? EVERY LIFE ON EARTH DIES. Humans are a part of that. Who was optimus trying to protect from the evil bots this whole time? HUMANS.
What i'm trying to say, is that bayverse optimus isnt meant to be just a bloodthirsty, sparkless monster. He's meant to be a broken version of optimus that didnt take it right.
Let's be honest, an optimus that isnt all perfect, doesnt have 101% control of his emotions, and has some flaws, is alot better. It brings more depth to the character.
I don't remember disliking bayverse prime? I'll have to watch them again to see what I think about him as an adult with a critical viewing eye.
I know I personally wasn't as much a fan of RotB prime because he felt like he had run out of hope and wanted to make sure everyone knew about it
No, no.
That’s facts and logic on the lookout for Bayverse lovers. They’re like the flat-earthers of the fandom.
You tell them that it’s all hodge-podge writing from DOTM to TLK, but good luck. “Stings like a Bee!” still gets them riled up and Merlin is just L-O-L funny! And Optimus. What a great character. Hotrod? OUGHT WRUD. Right.
I’m no G1-jerk-off but going from “End of the road Galvatron!” to “ITS OUGHT WRUD” is comedy itself. And Bee using his voice (again) to restore Prime to his normal self is peak cheese.
And let’s not forget the correlation between the Bayverse and Knightverse. Still convinced that they’re all in the same universe and can’t be bothered to A) do their own research (evident by this sub’s posts), and B) just figure it out? The writing is on the walls.
While Bay Prime lacks the " Be strong enough to be kind ‟ mentality, he's a more realistic soldier. He's a senseless killer, Which is realistic for a dude who's gone through millions of years of war.
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Bayverse haters aren't completely wrong, but they aren't right either there's a gray are where we can all agree
Like Bayverse Prime lol
Like all Optimus Primes
I think that Bayverse prime is pretty brutal, and definitely takes things further than they need to be but I still like him
I mean that's true for the most part, definitely when he killed Megatron, like that was unfair. But aside from that some of it's justifiable
I never got the “he shouldn’t kill Sentinel thing!” Like yeah it was definitely brutal but what happened to everyone hating Sentinel for killing Ironhide and nearly enslaving humanity?
Legally speaking killing a defenseless and injured enemy, especially a commander, is a war crime and a violation of the Geneva conventions. Weather it was wrong to do so is up them Personally I don’t but that’s due to me liking a story to be thematically consistent (i.e. an Optimus who is presented as more morally right than the ‘cons, with nobody questions his actions, should not be committing war crimes)
Beyverse Prime: "The scrap's a Geneva?"
Fair enough, I just don’t like the guy is my reasoning
Based
Cybertronians didnt sign the Geneva Convention, nor are they bound by it's rules. Also, the Decepticons are known to be liars, thieves, killers, and who knows what other God-forsaken crimes. If he didnt kill Sentinel, who's to say he wouldnt regret it? He'd come back just to kill them all. In a war like the ome between the Decepticons and the Autobots, not confirming kills is a huge no-no. It's the equivalent of giving your enemy (known for coming back to do the same ol' thing again and again) the chance to come back and stab you in the back for your "kindness." Bayverse Optimus has every reason to want the Decepticons dead. Like. . . .in pieces. They're the scourge (no pun intended) of the universe. A rabid dog able to consume entire races (and planets, if we want to pull from TLK). What do you do when a rabid dog attacks you (and hundreds of innocents)? You put it down, no matter how vicious the way you do it might be. (Also, after Sentinel's betrayal, he's super paranoid and cracks down on all enemies with an iron fist. Understandable.)
Keep in mind Sentinel did the same to the humans after crossing their deal
Purposefully killing a murderer means you are still guilty of murder
Oh no poor Sentinel, not the genocidal lunatic who if they captured would've definitely escaped and come back to screw them over later.
Shut up Batman, if you don't kill the murderer and they murder again, then you're still responsible for not ending it.
No you are not. There are no legal consequences for not killing a murderer, there are however many MANY penalties for killing them including 1st or 2nd degree murder, vigilante justice, and many more. If someone kills are person in front of you, you are better off letting them walk away and keeping yourself safe before reporting it to the proper authorities than to attack them and possibly get yourself hurt or killed. Laws exist for a reason and sometimes it’s to keep people safe from themselves.
People like you are the reason characters like the joker still exist. The law can be wrong, it has been, and will often continue to be. Edit: dude blocked me, so I can't respond to the others
To be fair though, the Gotham police and prisons are to blame. Batman brings him in like 50 times a week, and yet they never execute him for his crimes. But I get what you mean. Bayverse Optimus is the dude in Gotham that wants the Joker dead.
If we're applying actual logic here, the reason the Joker still exists is because he's Batman's most marketable villain and it makes more money to keep him around than to ever permanently kill him off. If that didn't apply I can guarantee *someone* would have killed the clown years ago.
But narratively speaking, OP is right.
Why are we applying human laws relating to criminal offences TO AN ALIEN, RACIST, GENOCIDAL, MANIAC WHO TRIED TO ENSLAVE THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE JUST BECAUSE IT WAS CONVENIENT SLAVE LABOR? Or to The Fallen, another racist genocidal maniac who wanted to KILL all humans just because he fucking hated Earth... as a planet... He just had a grudge cause he was a selfish dick. Mad at his brothers for not letting him commit this exact genocide a few thousand years back or so. Mind you Megatron isn't much better than these 2, tho his death in DOTM is more on the hands of Bay, cause of the leaked ending thing that happened, so that's just bad writing. But to everything else, realistically, humans would absolutely BEG Prime to execute Sentinel, The Fallen and Megatron and if he refused they'd do it themselves first chance they get
Imagine blocking someone so they can't continue to speak to other people, couldn't be me, but that is you
My apologies, I wasn’t trying to stop the conversation however I’m done arguing about the morality of a bunch of pixels on a screen. As such, I choose to walk away and not continue this argument. Thank you for letting me know it blocks the conversation as well. Either way it won’t matter, I’m blocking both of you. Goodbye you hypocrite of a brick.
Yeah He could've shoot his head he world die quickly, is not like he couldn't aim, they where both safe and still he choosed to kill him like that
Not going to get involved with this because I really am just done with the bayverse arguments, but man the Skybound comics have been incredible so far.
Won't deny that
I love how if there’s anything good related to a new Optimus some guy has to use it to bash Bayverse Optimus
I agree that people give Bay Prime more depth than the writers of those films ever meant to. But can people just say they like a character without shitting on another?
Transformers fans will forever be traumatized over Bayformers being what the grand majority of people think of when they hear Transformers, and will dedicate their life to whining about it in perpetuity.
True, but Bayverse Optimus has that dog in him
Bay Prime's all like: https://youtu.be/n4hB2Ae28dI?si=G3lRhWidKpDBguKj
Mfs think Optimus should be like Batman now
Istfg right???
This is...very compelling evidence. It's good enough for me to be cool with Bay Prime
Ah, good to see noncombativebrick is still being more combative than the combaticons
Can you blame him? He's fighting people who don't use logic. Also he's not the guy who started being combative as that was OOP. So he's being a defensive brick
Combat is combat, doesn’t matter who started it
It's defensive combat vs offensive combat
Yet it is still combat perpetrated by someone called “noncombativebrick”
It's self defense
Still hypocritical
He's still in the right
I am not questioning if they were right to begin or continue an argument, mere pointing out that they’re username ironic given their words. If they wish to be argumentative then they can be argumentative, it is merely ironic that they chose a name which says they are not. It is an interesting yet insignificant hypocrisy and nothing more.
I get my name is ironic, please stop being so obsessive over me.
Also I wouldn’t call anyone in this situation illogical as there are no facts about Optimus’ mental state. There are assumptions that can be made by analyzing his actions, but there is nothing stated by the films nor the production team that confirms or denies anything. For all intensive purposes both sides are right which will lead to never ending arguments and debates over a decade and a half later.
Bro you didn't read the comments, don't come out here with a mental diagnosis like you're a psychiatrist. Also don't make a separate thread, that's repetitive and waste time
It’s been seven years let it go.
(Imagine Sentinel singing it to Optimus) "Let it go, Let it go. Don't hold it back anymore. Here I stand, ready to enslave humans, let the war rage on. The bloodshed never bothered me anyway."
Technically, he tried to end the war by meeting up with Megatron, unlike Optimus. Then he crashed on the moon while Megatron crashed in ice. Yes, they are apparently horrible pilots. Their plan was to bring cybertron to earth, so they can rebuild it. Both autobots and decepticons together. The issue is that Sentinel betrayed the autobot moral code by letting a different species suffer for their well being. But that's why he is such an interesting character. He isn't just plain good or evil. And he makes the audience question both Optimus and Megatrons morals to a certain degree.
Ultimately, Sentinel chose to exile the Autobots, or those who remained after his slaughter, he didn't just betray their code, he completely betrayed them.
As Optimus said, Sentinel betrayed himself. Sentinel Prime, tho well intentioned, is a hypocrite that lost sight of his true goal in it's pursuit. He taught Optimus that "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" yet for the good of Cybertron he was willing to take that right away from a whole species, one smaller than him, weaker than him. He betrayed the Autobots by "becoming racist" or more specifically preying on a race weaker than theirs, ergo breaking their moral code and by cutting a SECRET deal with the leader of their enemies that brutalised them for eons. He betrayed Optimus by... well this one's obvious, he killed his best friend by shooting him in the back. Sentinel betrayed his values, his friends, his soldiers, his family, for the good of a world that he'd end up alone in, because everyone he cares about would either never join him and rather leave for the stars forever or be slaughtered by the Decepticons for opposing them. Sentinel Prime betrayed himself.
Im sorry but like "its not like earth has prisons strong enough to hold sentinel" didnt we get a whole montage in TLK of decepticons being released from said prisons??
The last night is several years after dark of the moon, and after humanity used the corpses of cybertronians to make “transformium”
Tbh I think people just need to chill out, we can make jokes and shit but constantly shitting on one thing and using anything new that comes out as a new weapon against it is kinda cringe. People can have their own opinions and like or dislike things but like, man doesn’t using a cool comic as a bludgeon to shit on something else devalue the cool comic you like??
For real, why do Transformers fans always gotta look for something to fight about?
True
I forgive Bayverse Optimus,, nobody else can be that cute and cool while committing war crimes 😔
Committing war crimes against worse war criminals
Why is this still an argument it’s so bizarre both are different characters if they act differently who cares you still have your version?
I... Don't remember the spark eating. Was that a thing in all the movies, or just the first.
It was a cut scene that never made it into the actual film
Then why the hell is it a point of discussion? It didn't happen, so it shouldn't be relevant. That's like me awarding Rise of the Beasts 4 extra points because of the cut Transit scenes, it makes no sense.
Hardcore Bay-stans be like that
Facts say that Bayverse Optimus is a war criminal Logic says that I should not trust or like a war criminal due to them committing acts that are deemed too cruel for war. This is further exemplified by the popular opinion that war is inherently cruel, thus making war criminals even more cruel than an average criminal. As such there is a strong case for disliking bayverse Optimus due his inhumane treatment of his enemies which make him a war criminal which is considered an especially heinous title in modern society.
>As such there is a strong case for disliking bayverse Optimus due his inhumane treatment of his enemies. To make a point for Bayverse Optimus. The decepticons are monsters who eat other cybertronians. They made a deal with the humans and then immediately crossed them, making them war criminals. With their attack on Chicago, they showed that you can't trust them, as they will lie and betray to get their way. Furthermore, Optimus, Brother to Megatron, Son of Sentinel, without truly being related, knows them very well, he was acting with the knowledge that they will betray the humans again, that they will nuke a city, send a minster drill rampaging through it, and enslave humans again. All Optimus did was rid the galaxy of two war criminals.
See i dont fucking like bayverse dissers that just say "omgggg optimun pride is bloodthirsty monster❗️❗️❗️❗️omg why❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️" LIKE SHUT UP Let me get 1 thing out of the way. I'm not saying micheal bay wrote him perfect (trust me.), but what i am going to say is how bayverse optimus isnt all monster. Bayverse optimus prime is a more complex version, character wise. Instead of your usual emotionally perfect, perfect mental state optimus prime, bayverse optimus is more complex. He has flaws. He isnt emotionally perfect. He feels anger, and that anger can take control of him. He saw his old friend, ratchet get killed by HUMANS! *HUMANS*, THE SAME SPECIES THAT HE SPENT HIS TIME SAVING FROM GUESS WHAT? The evil decepticons who couldnt give a fuck about them. His other old friend, ironhide, gets executed by sentinel prime via a cosmic rust cannon. Guess who sentinel was to optimus? If you guessed "long term mentor that's been there for optimus for years", then you'd be correct! Not only does sentinel turn ironhide into dust, he almost kills the one who he mentored FOR YEARS. Wanna know who he mentored for years? OPTIMUS FUCKING PRIME. Alright i'm done with my rannnn,,, wait wait wait wait, i can smell the "but what about the fallen's death?" The fallen built the star harvestor. Wanna know what the star harvestor does? Absorb stars. What is the sun? A star. Wanna know what happens when earth has no sun? EVERY LIFE ON EARTH DIES. Humans are a part of that. Who was optimus trying to protect from the evil bots this whole time? HUMANS. What i'm trying to say, is that bayverse optimus isnt meant to be just a bloodthirsty, sparkless monster. He's meant to be a broken version of optimus that didnt take it right. Let's be honest, an optimus that isnt all perfect, doesnt have 101% control of his emotions, and has some flaws, is alot better. It brings more depth to the character.
“Bayverse Optimus is a more complex version, character wise.” 
I don't remember disliking bayverse prime? I'll have to watch them again to see what I think about him as an adult with a critical viewing eye. I know I personally wasn't as much a fan of RotB prime because he felt like he had run out of hope and wanted to make sure everyone knew about it
No, no. That’s facts and logic on the lookout for Bayverse lovers. They’re like the flat-earthers of the fandom. You tell them that it’s all hodge-podge writing from DOTM to TLK, but good luck. “Stings like a Bee!” still gets them riled up and Merlin is just L-O-L funny! And Optimus. What a great character. Hotrod? OUGHT WRUD. Right. I’m no G1-jerk-off but going from “End of the road Galvatron!” to “ITS OUGHT WRUD” is comedy itself. And Bee using his voice (again) to restore Prime to his normal self is peak cheese. And let’s not forget the correlation between the Bayverse and Knightverse. Still convinced that they’re all in the same universe and can’t be bothered to A) do their own research (evident by this sub’s posts), and B) just figure it out? The writing is on the walls.
Bro, you're talking about Bayverse stans, Bayverse lovers can acknowledge the stupid shit, but still love it for what it is.
I like the Michael Bay movies. Sure the second one is pretty bad but the first and third are decent. It was the perfect trilogy.
Bayverse Prime is an anti-hero, it's a different take on him, I like it personally, it ain't perfect, but I like it
Y'all should just watch "This machine kills fascists" on YouTube then come back. It explains why Bayverse prime is so violent
While Bay Prime lacks the " Be strong enough to be kind ‟ mentality, he's a more realistic soldier. He's a senseless killer, Which is realistic for a dude who's gone through millions of years of war.
Ok I've been out of the loop what did those idiots do now?