He also received taxpayer money to get the internet up and running in Ukraine. He acted like he got nothing early on, but most of the terminals were paid for with taxpayer money.
Earlier this year the DoD gave Starlink a contract to buy satellite services for Ukraine. Should someone who feels they can make whatever decision they want get such a contract?
>Should someone who feels they can make whatever decision they want get such a contract?
Would we even be asking this question if the CEO of Boeing disabled a bunch of B-52's because he didn't agree with the mission?
I know this is fucking insane. And this doesn’t even touch the on-going issue of Musk geofencing critical areas of Eastern Ukraine during counter-offensive missions.
Imagine Boeing coding an exploit into their planes so that the weapons systems stop functioning if the pilot flies over certain regions of the front line. And that area of malfunction is decided on the fly at the whim of a single company executive.
This is fucking treachery of the highest order. Musk has no authority over the use of tax-payer purchased equipment after it’s sold. It’s fucking satellite internet — they are using it for its intended purpose. I can’t believe he can get away with this shit.
He, nor any unelected business person, should be in a position to make decisions as consequencial as a war, or any other matter affecting people’s lives, whether taxpayer money is involved, or not. This goes for defense contractors, oil companies, Halliburton, AI and others.
It is just as important who we vote for, also. 2024 is important.
This is a consequence of lobbying. Our government is completely (no exaggeration) owned by corporations. Of course they think they can make decisions like this. They do it every single day to you and me, we just die slower.
This is what happens when private citizens get billions of dollars. Buy the public square and turn it into a propaganda machine and then start sticking their noses into war on the other side.
Even an elected official can't make that decision all the hell all by himself. There are some a President can make. So far I'm not seeing Elon on a ballot.
No no no, jesus I hate Musk as much as the rest of everyone but this story blew up from mis-information, its from a bad quote!
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/09/elon-musk-biographer-moves-to-clarify-details-on-ukraine-starlink.html#:~:text=Author%20Walter%20Isaacson%20took%20to,Ukrainian%20attack%20on%20Russian%20warships.
We cant get pissed when the GOP spreads lies if we do it ourselves!
Isaacsons WaPo opinion piece states
>Although he had readily supported Ukraine, he believed it was reckless for Ukraine to launch an attack on Crimea, which Russia had annexed in 2014. He had just spoken to the Russian ambassador to the United States. (In later conversations with a few other people, he seemed to imply that he had spoken directly to President Vladimir Putin, but to me he said his communications had gone through the ambassador.) The ambassador had explicitly told him that a Ukrainian attack on Crimea would lead to a nuclear response. Musk explained to me in great detail, as I stood behind the bleachers, the Russian laws and doctrines that decreed such a response.
Which debunks the Putin meeting but the article you linked just mentions that Musk didnt consider Crimea to be part of the deal despite it being illegally annexed. Imo the only misunderstanding is in Musk with his talk with the ambassador who probably mentioned something along the lines of "any attack on Russian territory allows nuclear retaliation" but again Crimea is not Russia nor is Kharkiv or Kyiv despite what Russia claims. Musk shouldve made clear that he didnt sign up to help Ukraine reclaim stolen territory rather than play to Russian propaganda by claiming Ukraine as the aggressors.
It seems the "talking with Russia" part is true but the "deactivation of services" may not be. It seems Musk is saying there were no Starlink service over the Crimean peninsula and to have activated it for this one night would have been actively assisting in an act of war.
I'm not sure about this. I bet there was service over Crimean peninsula and he turned it off. I can't fathom an expensive strike would be based on Elon Musk helping. He doesn't help; he just calls people pedophiles and starts investigations into you.
* https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/musk-told-pentagon-he-spoke-to-putin-directly-new-yorker-says-1.1961696
>(Bloomberg) -- Elon Musk told Pentagon officials during a call about the satellite-based internet that SpaceX supplies to Ukraine’s military that **he’d spoken personally with Russian President Vladimir Putin**, the New Yorker reported.
>*Musk volunteered the information* during **an October** conversation with Colin Kahl, then the Pentagon’s top policy official, about Ukrainian forces losing connection to Space Exploration Technologies Corp.’s Starlink service as they entered territory contested by Russia, the magazine said Monday.
Just an FYI.
Apparently the boats washed ashore after being disabled. Musk not only wasted Ukrainian dollars, but also gave the Russians remote controlled boat explosive devices.
Boeing is exactly the company I thought of then stretch that out to *any* military contractors. Absurd? Of course it is. Paranoid? Yep. Same line of reasoning? Sounds like it.
But I don't have a billionaire's stupendous, gigantic brain. What do I know?
I believe many are bots.
There's companies that do this kind of thing, joe rogan has one named "bent pixels" which scrapes the Internet for his and other clients names and defends them online, also can give views and likes etc for social media shit.
Shits fucking crazy, there are thousands of them on reddit aswell.
I agree which what I think you're saying. If there was a contract in place, Elon should be sued for breech of contract. Short of that, he's showing himself to be a poor investment for gov't money and that his word is unreliable, but that's fairly apparent to everyone at this point.
last year when this first came out, there was something mentioned how if this tech was used for a military operation it would be considered a military technology and be susceptible to UN restrictions. I'm not sure though if a DoD contract would negate that as an issue.
Seeing as Ukraine started using Starlink immediately for drone attacks don’t think the US government had any issues with it
There’s articles from March 2022 talking about Ukranian drone operators using Starlink for attacks
They could be using the Guest WiFi of the target they're attacking for the drone strikes and it wouldn't make that cheap WRT54G a military technology. The Drone is Military Tech. The internet service they're using to control it is not.
This makes it so much worse, makes my blood boil, the US gov is starlinks customer and he sabotages our mission. We subsidizes his start up costs and privatized the profit, fuck this guy.
Every business he has that is not twitter is running on US taxpayer dollars given to him by the government. He's incapable of not running something into the ground without subsidies (which he's also whined about people getting)
Wait... the Ukranian service is PAID FOR by the US?
Paid. For.
Meaning the service should be working at all times, for all reasons.
DOD absolutely should be on this. They're not getting what is in that contract if he's doing this.
And if he didn't want his company complicit in shit, he never should have been selling services to ANY government for any reason. If you are selling your services, you're selling them regardless of what use they might be like this.
You don't get to suddenly decide how its being used once a contract is made.
That's not how shit works.
The reason nothing will be done is we have public trials and Musk knows the government likely doesn’t want to acknowledge how much aide especially intelligence the US is giving Ukraine. It would require sharing capabilities in open court, kinda like the Trump document case where there were plenty more documents he could have been charged with having but it’s safer to not charge him so there is no chance of it spreading further.
I know this is a beast of a different nature but there are safe-guards for this in an espionage trial, which could be made to apply here. That said, nah, I don't really see a prosecution either. Be cooler if there was though.
This has nothing to do with that. Those are different satellites fully controlled by DoD. Musk sold satellite internet and then interfered in a critical mission by exploiting the system he already sold. He should be held accountable.
I think this has legs. He doesn't need to go on trial. He just needs to be forced out as CEO of SpaceX.
He's doing a damn fine job running his other two companies into the ground. I don't see why the US government would stand around waiting for him to come up with some SpaceX sized horrid idea, like rebranding Twitter to X or the Cybertruck.
I'm a bit confused. The issue that happened was before the DoD gave Starlink anything, and your message would seem to imply that Musk should give services out for free to whoever just because, or that Ukraine should have been paying for it instead. Which should it have been? This is top voted comment so I'm sure I'm missing something.
I don’t need people spamming about the bad views/stuff he had because I’m aware, but this generation really needs a Teddy Roosevelt to come in. A no fucks given person who just goes in and breaks up the powers that be
Fun fact: when he became president, he wasn't elected. He was pushed into becoming vice-president to limit his ability to do much of anything IIRC. The man who was elected president died almost immediately after being sworn in, giving teddy the top job.
Yep. His time as Governor of NY was filled with him pushing progressive laws into power (including an increase of corporate franchise taxes by almost 10%).
He pissed off the party boss of the state senate, so that guy put Teddy’s name into the minds of GOP convention delegates. After some weird turns, finally was accepting of the VP ticket. 4 days after being sworn in, McKinley was shot by an anarchist, died a few days later.
The best part is that there was one dude in the convention (a former TR ally in Washington) that fought tooth and nail for the VP spot instead of Teddy. Was quoted as saying something along the lines of “Don’t you understand? If he becomes Vice President, there will be one life between him and the White House.”
Except Teddy gave no fucks about industry and only cared about the betterment of his fellow man, meanwhile Donny gave no fucks about his fellow man and only cared about his pocketbook.
the easiest way to see this is that modern day republicans wave the flag of the enemy of the republicans during the civil war, and they call it part of their heritage.
They call themselves the Party of Lincoln while throwing tantrums over Confederate statues being taken down, claiming them to be an attack upon their heritage.
Citizens United has made that much harder than it used to be. Because politicians need to raise incredible amounts of money to obtain and hold on to elected positions they are beholden to the super rich and large corporations.
He and his coworkers are above reproach! Especially that Thomas fellow! Absolute salt of the earth! They answer to a higher calling! The job is not worth doing for the pay… But it is worth doing for the principle! He said that! Surely, he wouldn’t lie either!
It’s always pissed me off when they say this. Like yeah John roberts was making millions as a plaintiff rep before the court but alito has always been a judge and Thomas famously wasn’t being hired by any of the big firms he thought he was destined for. Not to mention they make like 300k and have long breaks and clerks do most of the work, don’t act like that’s a teachers salary and workload lol
That’s always been the funniest part for me. I’m a leftie myself but even I know all politicians sometimes oversimplify or spin a Supreme Court case in a simplified to the point of misleading way, but that was a very spot on analysis of what the result of that case would be and alito tried to disagree lmao
What was said:
QUESTION: So SpaceX CEO Elon Musk has recently confirmed a report that’s in Walter Isaacson’s new biography of Musk that last year, Musk blocked access to his Starlink satellite network in Crimea in order to disrupt a major Ukrainian attack on the Russian navy there. In other words, Musk effectively sabotaged a military operation by Ukraine, a U.S. ally, against Russia, an aggressor country that invaded a U.S. ally. Should there be repercussions for that?
SECRETARY BLINKEN: Jake, I can’t speak to a specific episode. Here’s what I can tell you: Starlink has been a vital tool for the Ukrainians to be able to communicate with each other, and particularly for the military to communicate in their effort to defend all of Ukraine’s territory. It remains so and I would expect it to continue to be critical to their efforts. So what we would hope and expect is that that technology will remain fully available to the Ukrainians. It is vital to what they’re doing.
QUESTION: I don’t know that you can’t speak to it; you won’t speak to it. Musk says he was reportedly afraid that Russia would retaliate with nuclear weapons. Musk says that’s based on his private discussions he had with senior Russian officials. Are you concerned that Musk is apparently conducting his own diplomatic outreach to the Russian Government? Really, none of this concerns you?
SECRETARY BLINKEN: Jake, I can’t speak to conversations that may or may not have happened. I don’t know. I’m focused on the fact that the technology itself – Starlink – has been really important to the Ukrainians. It remains so and it should continue to be part of what they’re able to call on to be able to communicate with themselves and, again, to have the military be able to communicate.
Throughout this Russian aggression, we have – we ourselves have always had to factor in what Russia may do in response to any given thing that we or others do or the Ukrainians do, and we have. But what’s so critical now is that Ukraine has had real success over the past year. I was just in Ukraine, as you know. The last time I was there was almost exactly a year ago. In that year, from the last time I was there till this week, the Ukrainians have retaken more than 50 percent of the territory seized by Russia since February of 2022. They’re now engaged in a critical counteroffensive, and we’re doing everything we can to maximize our support for them along with many other countries so that they can be successful. Starlink is an important part of their success, and as I said, we expect that it will continue to be so.
QUESTION: It sounds like Starlink is so important that the U.S. Government doesn’t want to risk offending a capricious billionaire who did some things that I think in another situation the U.S. Government might want to say something about. But let’s move on.
That's why crucial technologies like starlink should never be in private hands ever.
Edit: and it's not only Elons fault. The US government has heavily privatized war for a long time now. The US military industrial complex is just insanely powerful and went completely unchecked decade after decade. Musk is the only one besides maybe one or two blackwater ceo's to ever give the rich dudes in the background a face.
Playing the devils advocate here, they were always walking a thin line between using Starkink as a passive communication system, and an integral part of any strategic offenses. Once weaponized, Starlink becomes “military technology,” prohibiting him from legally exporting it outside the United States (e.g. ITAR restrictions). Because of this, the agreement between SpaceX and the Ukrainian government regarding the use of Starlink was for **humanitarian purposes**, such as providing broadband internet access to hospitals, banks, and families affected by the Russian invasion. The real question here is how the world’s largest military became dependent on a commercial product to win a war. I work in the DoD, and the need for LEO satellites in multi-domain operations has been obvious for a decade.
Why would the US government raise one even if they technically had grounds for one? They are effectively using Ukraine to fight a proxy war with Russia, and they aren't going to intentionally hamper Ukraine unless they have no other choice.
Pretty much, yes. Elon tweeted several days ago about it, saying SpaceX is developing Starshield, which will be controlled by the US military and will have smaller receivers.
Walter Isaacson said his description of Elon Musk’s decision not to allow his satellite system to be used by Ukraine for an intended attack on a Russian fleet was misstated in the biography of the billionaire he authored.
Isaacson, in an excerpt of his book “Elon Musk” published in the Washington Post, had said Musk secretly told his engineers to turn off Starlink coverage within 100 kilometers of the Crimean coast, so that Ukrainian drone subs couldn’t attack the Russian fleet in Sevastopol.
The author, first on Twitter and then in the op-ed, corrected this account: “To clarify on the Starlink issue: the Ukrainians THOUGHT coverage was enabled all the way to Crimea, but it was not. They asked Musk to enable it for their drone sub attack on the Russian fleet. Musk did not enable it, because he thought, probably correctly, that woul cause a major war.”
Musk himself quoted the tweet, and said Ukraine’s military didn’t read the fine print. “Our terms of service clearly prohibit Starlink for offensive military action, as we are a civilian system, so they were again asking for something that was expressly prohibited,” the world’s richest man wrote.
Ukraine officials have maintained the initial account — that Musk turned off the system — was closer to the truth.
TLDR: The most powerful nation on earth can’t risk offending the billionaire man-child who can alter the course of war in the Russian’s favor. So we’ll offer him platitudes in the hope he doesn’t damage our war effort further.
Jesus Christ , Tony. Grow a fucking spine, you have the power of the state department at your disposal. I can’t believe I didn’t put my chair through my TV after hearing those milquetoast responses.
I actually kind of get where the secretary is coming from here. What Elon did is definitely treason, but notice that the secretary purposely avoids mentioning Elon himself, instead he focuses on the technology. Ukraine has been using Starlink and they are obviously kicking Russias ass. If it is true that Elon has been having meetings with Russian officials it may be best to keep the situation on the down low. The government definitely already knows if this is true or not and is likely keeping a close eye on Elon. It’s definitely the right move to make it appear to Elon that the government is on his side. If he were to get paranoid he might fully defect, which is not great since he controls this technology, and as a dumb ass, he could easily be manipulated into handing full control over to the Russians if he feels as if the US betrayed him. Right now it is best to play it safe. I bet after the war is over he might see some repercussions for his actions.
Starlink needs to obtain licenses and authorizations from the FCC to use certain frequencies and orbits for its services, which it has been granting to Starlink in the past, but I think should now reconsider.
One of the benefits of remaining neutral is that you are nobody’s target.
Musk is playing with fire, and the Ukranian people may not forget as easily. War is war.
Obviously I don't know him personally but I feel like Musk doesn't understand that there are consequences for his decisions. He can work out the first step in his head (which is usually "I'll do this thing that nobody can stop me from doing"), but the ripple effects always come as a shock to him. He's *never* ready for what happens next, he never has a plan for it, and never said anything intelligent about it. The connection between action and outcome appears to be invisible for him.
Now that he's entering the arena of global war with the same attitude, he's opening himself up for something he truly doesn't understand. People get assassinated for the kind of thing he's done. People get their homes or businesses burned to the ground. They can no longer travel freely, and their friends turn their backs. He's also acted directly in opposition to the interests of the very same government he pressured for money.
Elon being Elon isn't going to work out for him indefinitely.
If I was Elon I'd be more worried about Budanov than Blinken. One has a history of orchestrating unaliving people and Elon just ruined an operation meant to save Ukrainian lives.
My guess is he's trying to not get killed by the Russians. He gave the Ukrainians access right off the bat and he probably only realized later that Putin has a history of killing people who stand up against him. He's undoubtedly on a list somewhere in the Kremlin for having the audacity thwart their plans. All the pro Russian shit he's been up to lately strikes me as attempt to curry favor so he doesn't end up drinking thallium tea or having his plane with all of his kids on board have an unplanned rapid disassembly.
No matter how the war turns out, if the Putin faction is still in power when the war ends, Elon is not going to last very long. They'll either get him for contributing to their loss or they'll take him out as a lesson to anyone who thinks about standing against them in the future.
His only real hope is a regime change.
It's actually "Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly" usually shortened to just RUD.
And no Elo did not invent that term like many think, it's used in the Aerospace industry since the 60s.
I remember in the Azealia Banks/Grimes back and forth, Grimes mentioned something about Elon being worried the Russians were trying to kill him, and this was in like 2018.
I mean, if Gordon fucking Ramsay was sweating bullets around Putin, then I can kind of understand Elon Musk shitting himself and not wanting to fuck around with Putin. Not trying to excuse Elon’s treasonous acts, but KIND of understand his viewpoint. Kind of.
Very very doubtful
Killing such a prominent american citizen would most likely be considered an act of war
Elon has round the clock security so they would have a hard time even getting to him
If russians were that stupid they would already have tried to kill lockhead martin personnel or something
When people praise the rich, I always think of Elon and how he uses his power for evil sometimes. Makes me scared for the future when the rich have accumulted all wealth, and seeks to become our new kings and emperors, alla Putin and Russia.
That's where I have a feeling Elon is heading. Seriously don't care if that's an off the wall take. He's been more and more " Only I KNOW ( indefinable, convoluted stuff too complicated for ordinary peasants ) and can save the WORLD, I tell you the WORLD ".
Vibe I'm getting from the guy. Hope I'm wrong- he's got way too much money for that to be correct.
He is an unhinged, arrogant egomaniac. This guy is dangerous because, though his entire life has been privileged,he truly believes that he alone knows what’s best for the world and his judgement is infallible. He’s spent too much time reading his own PR firm’s press releases. He doesn’t know the first fucking thing about the real world.
Elon has gotten 15 billion from the government in subsidies to be able to make rockets and starlink and all the government contracts on top of that, and then he just shuts down a mission critical operation that is of great interest to the US and its allies to help his dictator friend.
If this was Reinmetal, Lockheed Martin, Saab, Boeing, BAE or any other government contractor in any country that turned of core functions in military infrastructure, heads would roll.....
Why the fuck doesn't the US military or government already have a Starlink system in place? Why are any countries even reliant on a douchebag like Musk?
This is the question that needs to be asked. Fuck Musk but this is a failing of the government and military.
We can't privatize critical infrastructure. While we use SpaceX, NASA better have a backup plan so that the government can't be held hostage. Or they have the right to nationalize any private company in time of need if they want that sweet tax payer money.
If he been providing Ukraine with this for free then he’d be free to do whatever he wanted. But he’s being paid a shit ton of tax payer money to keep it online, that’s like an ISP restricting your internet access on Sundays because you should be in church you sinful heretic.
Apparently it's now treason for a private US citizen not to help another country send rockets and unmanned drones into a third country. Reddit being it's usual dumb radical self.
if he's going to fight with countries that are enemies of this country they should immediately cancel any government contracts, or tax breaks he has. if you want to side with russia you can get your money from russia.
Critical military infrastructure like Starlink should not be in private hands. That is especially true when the government funded the vast majority of its development. #nationalizespacex
If you believe Elon should be charged by the DoJ please point to the law you think he broke.
Fuck Elon musk, but this rhetoric is stupid, I can nearly guarantee that he didn’t break any criminal law, maybe civil if there was a contract for service, but that’s outside the DoJ’s scope of power.
You're the first sane comment I've found scrolling all the way down from the top.
> maybe civil if there was a contract for service
And that's the crux of the issue -- the US government never bothered to acquire a suitable service contract with SpaceX before deciding to donate Starlink service to Ukraine. Which, initially, that wasn't really expected to matter, since Ukraine was expected to just use Starlink for comms and intel.
Problem started when Ukraine began putting Starlink receivers on drone boats and directly weaponizing the service.....and since they were under the same normal terms of service that every other Joe Schmo Starlink customer is under, they got their service suspended.
Starlink needed to have a proper contract from the US government (like they have now) for that service in order to protect their own ass, because otherwise they would be a private company independently providing direct material support to a war. Which is a quick way to get yourself in extremely hot water with various international regulatory bodies, even if you are supporting the "right" side. It's the same reason why gun manufacturer ABC would never in a million years directly provide a bunch of weapons to rebel guerilla forces in some random country, but are happy to accept a contract from the Pentagon for those weapons, which the Pentagon uses to arm those same rebel forces.
Elon only parrots Russian taking points on the war in Ukraine.
Elon was seen at the World Cup in rubbing elbows with Russian propagandists.
Elon removed “State Sponsored Media” tags from Russian propagandists when he bought Twitter.
Elon allowed Russian propagandists to be found AND ACTIVELY RECOMMENDED in search since he took over Twitter.
Elon regularly engages with Russian Propagandists on Twitter, increasing exposure to the propaganda accounts.
Elon has never visited Ukraine to speak with the leaders or the troops.
Elon has never posted public support for Ukraine or engaged with any pro-Ukrainian accounts.
Elon is a Russian asset and should not be anywhere near US government contracts or classified information. Any contracts that he or his companies do hold should be nullified.
Lol could you imagine if Toyota or Ford could just shut off your engine if they suspected you were driving somewhere they didn’t think you should go?
Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he could do this with each and every Tesla they’ve sold. Kind of dystopian in a way.
Yeah I can't stand Musk but this thread is absolutely insane. The implications are disturbing to say the least. I don't see what he did that was "treason" or a "war crime". Why would he want HIS company to be contributing to acts of war?
Given how many of the US government’s three letter organizations have some level of jurisdiction over this I’m shocked that Elon’s lawyers aren’t just throwing every object within reach at him telling him to shut the fuck up.
Dude’s going to get his citizenship revoked and find Space-X folded back into NASA and Tesla getting sold off for parts.
As a 24 year federal employee this is the risk you take with contract work. Especially when given to a company whose CEO owes no particular allegiance to the country that hired him.
Are they his satellites, yes. Then as his property he can choose who and how they are used. It doesn't matter the political aspect the solution is to always have a communication backup or your own infrastructure.
He didn't shut it off. It was never turned on over Crimea in the first place and the Ukrainians were even told beforehand that Starlink wouldn't be available over occupied areas (mostly to prevent the Russians from using it).
They asked for it to be turned on and were denied. They also asked the U.S. government for cruise missiles for other long range strikes and were denied.
Why are you upset for Elon holding the same stance as the government?
There are people in this world that I personally like and those I don't. Then, there are people who I think are total dicks. Beyond that, there are people I think of as a detriment to society, either through their actions or their influence. Going further, there are people I think belong in jail, either legally or on principle, for the asshole things they do that cause actual harm.
Then there's Musk, who came bearing gifts for the Ukranians, begged and pressured the American government to pay for it, and then acted against their interest by secretly sabotaging them to the point where he betrayed them completely resulting in harm done to their nation and perhaps several very real deaths in the short term.
I don't even have a way to describe it, but Dante's Inferno reserves the final level of hell for betrayers. And that's where Musk belongs.
dont hold your breath. what exactly would the government do? exactly....we cant even bring the traitor in chief to trial for attempting to overthrow the govt. again, dont hold your breath.
Giving a single person control of a huge part of essential Internet infrastructure is a terrible idea, and Elon Musk has already proven with Twitter that he will not handle that responsibility well.
He was caught throttling traffic on links from Twitter a few weeks ago. Long story short, if you clicked on a link in a tweet to a website that was critical of Musk, the links loaded incredibly slow on purpose (NY Times was one of.the sites). This defies his supposed stance on free speech.
The fact that a private company has this capability/control and the US government does not might be an issue for me.
We've outsourced space, this is the consequence.
Mostly embarrassing.
Nobody outsourced Starlink. SpaceX planned it on their own years ago while every space agency out there mocked it, laughed at it and said it was impractical to build.
Now that SpaceX has gambled on it and it paid off, people are complaining that SpaceX controls it?!
If anyone isn't happy they are free to build their own constellation like OneWeb is doing. I'm sure SpaceX will be more than happy to get paid to launch them into space.
> We've outsourced space, this is the consequence.
Space was outsourced from day 1. NASA has never designed and built a launch system itself. They don't even build their own satellites.
That said, the "space" part is irrelevant here. The only reason a private company has this control is that the US government neglected to acquire an appropriate service contract with SpaceX before deciding to donate that service to Ukraine. Ukraine was willfully and intentionally breaking the Starlink service contract they had at the time, and got their access suspended because it.
The exact same thing can happen any time the US government acquires anything from a private company. That's why contracts and procurement agreements are a thing. Not only do they dictate the exact terms for the service or product being procured, but it protects the company from liability. For example, gun manufacturer ABC can't just go give a shit ton of guns to rebel guerilla forces in country XYZ, the UN and Interpol and whoever else would have a field day with them. But if the US government procures those same weapons from manufacturer ABC and then gives them all to those same rebel forces.....well that's just another Tuesday at the Pentagon.
Without the contract from the US government, SpaceX couldn't allow their service to be weaponized. That would have *actually* been an international problem. EDIT: and a domestic problem, since that would place Starlink under ITAR controls, which SpaceX did not have the approvals and certification for. So, US law was literally preventing Ukraine from using Starlink for offensive purposes.
I don't know what to say. We shouldn't have to spell that out for you, guys. His ties to Russia couldn't be any more obvious than that, Jesus Christ. Open your fucking eyes.
He also received taxpayer money to get the internet up and running in Ukraine. He acted like he got nothing early on, but most of the terminals were paid for with taxpayer money. Earlier this year the DoD gave Starlink a contract to buy satellite services for Ukraine. Should someone who feels they can make whatever decision they want get such a contract?
>Should someone who feels they can make whatever decision they want get such a contract? Would we even be asking this question if the CEO of Boeing disabled a bunch of B-52's because he didn't agree with the mission?
I know this is fucking insane. And this doesn’t even touch the on-going issue of Musk geofencing critical areas of Eastern Ukraine during counter-offensive missions. Imagine Boeing coding an exploit into their planes so that the weapons systems stop functioning if the pilot flies over certain regions of the front line. And that area of malfunction is decided on the fly at the whim of a single company executive. This is fucking treachery of the highest order. Musk has no authority over the use of tax-payer purchased equipment after it’s sold. It’s fucking satellite internet — they are using it for its intended purpose. I can’t believe he can get away with this shit.
He, nor any unelected business person, should be in a position to make decisions as consequencial as a war, or any other matter affecting people’s lives, whether taxpayer money is involved, or not. This goes for defense contractors, oil companies, Halliburton, AI and others. It is just as important who we vote for, also. 2024 is important.
This is a consequence of lobbying. Our government is completely (no exaggeration) owned by corporations. Of course they think they can make decisions like this. They do it every single day to you and me, we just die slower.
It is also a result of gerrymandering.
What would putin do... Show him the view out the window and give him a cup of tea.
This is what happens when private citizens get billions of dollars. Buy the public square and turn it into a propaganda machine and then start sticking their noses into war on the other side.
This is what happens when capitalism.
Even an elected official can't make that decision all the hell all by himself. There are some a President can make. So far I'm not seeing Elon on a ballot.
And he met with Putin and admitted so before doing it.
No no no, jesus I hate Musk as much as the rest of everyone but this story blew up from mis-information, its from a bad quote! https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/09/elon-musk-biographer-moves-to-clarify-details-on-ukraine-starlink.html#:~:text=Author%20Walter%20Isaacson%20took%20to,Ukrainian%20attack%20on%20Russian%20warships. We cant get pissed when the GOP spreads lies if we do it ourselves!
Isaacsons WaPo opinion piece states >Although he had readily supported Ukraine, he believed it was reckless for Ukraine to launch an attack on Crimea, which Russia had annexed in 2014. He had just spoken to the Russian ambassador to the United States. (In later conversations with a few other people, he seemed to imply that he had spoken directly to President Vladimir Putin, but to me he said his communications had gone through the ambassador.) The ambassador had explicitly told him that a Ukrainian attack on Crimea would lead to a nuclear response. Musk explained to me in great detail, as I stood behind the bleachers, the Russian laws and doctrines that decreed such a response. Which debunks the Putin meeting but the article you linked just mentions that Musk didnt consider Crimea to be part of the deal despite it being illegally annexed. Imo the only misunderstanding is in Musk with his talk with the ambassador who probably mentioned something along the lines of "any attack on Russian territory allows nuclear retaliation" but again Crimea is not Russia nor is Kharkiv or Kyiv despite what Russia claims. Musk shouldve made clear that he didnt sign up to help Ukraine reclaim stolen territory rather than play to Russian propaganda by claiming Ukraine as the aggressors.
It seems the "talking with Russia" part is true but the "deactivation of services" may not be. It seems Musk is saying there were no Starlink service over the Crimean peninsula and to have activated it for this one night would have been actively assisting in an act of war. I'm not sure about this. I bet there was service over Crimean peninsula and he turned it off. I can't fathom an expensive strike would be based on Elon Musk helping. He doesn't help; he just calls people pedophiles and starts investigations into you.
* https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/musk-told-pentagon-he-spoke-to-putin-directly-new-yorker-says-1.1961696 >(Bloomberg) -- Elon Musk told Pentagon officials during a call about the satellite-based internet that SpaceX supplies to Ukraine’s military that **he’d spoken personally with Russian President Vladimir Putin**, the New Yorker reported. >*Musk volunteered the information* during **an October** conversation with Colin Kahl, then the Pentagon’s top policy official, about Ukrainian forces losing connection to Space Exploration Technologies Corp.’s Starlink service as they entered territory contested by Russia, the magazine said Monday. Just an FYI.
They'd end up in florence by the end of the week. And not the one in Italy.
Florence and the machine?
The dog days have only begun
Apparently the boats washed ashore after being disabled. Musk not only wasted Ukrainian dollars, but also gave the Russians remote controlled boat explosive devices.
Boeing is exactly the company I thought of then stretch that out to *any* military contractors. Absurd? Of course it is. Paranoid? Yep. Same line of reasoning? Sounds like it. But I don't have a billionaire's stupendous, gigantic brain. What do I know?
He should be put in prison for life at gitmo
no but Musk's got a cult of personality about him
Not to mention the whole "billions of dollars" thing.
well yes
I believe many are bots. There's companies that do this kind of thing, joe rogan has one named "bent pixels" which scrapes the Internet for his and other clients names and defends them online, also can give views and likes etc for social media shit. Shits fucking crazy, there are thousands of them on reddit aswell.
I agree which what I think you're saying. If there was a contract in place, Elon should be sued for breech of contract. Short of that, he's showing himself to be a poor investment for gov't money and that his word is unreliable, but that's fairly apparent to everyone at this point.
last year when this first came out, there was something mentioned how if this tech was used for a military operation it would be considered a military technology and be susceptible to UN restrictions. I'm not sure though if a DoD contract would negate that as an issue.
Seeing as Ukraine started using Starlink immediately for drone attacks don’t think the US government had any issues with it There’s articles from March 2022 talking about Ukranian drone operators using Starlink for attacks
They could be using the Guest WiFi of the target they're attacking for the drone strikes and it wouldn't make that cheap WRT54G a military technology. The Drone is Military Tech. The internet service they're using to control it is not.
there was no contract during the period. this was prior to any contract, as such he could do whatever - and he chose the wrong whatever
For that reason alone Starlink should be overseen by the US government. He had zero authority to do what he did.
I hope he's losing sleep over the lives he decided over.
He's losing sleep just generally to the giant speed based drug be cocktail he's taking
Bold of you to assume he is
He’s losing sleep making edgy memes about trans people and that should be really sobering to everyone as he is acting as his own nation state in a war
This makes it so much worse, makes my blood boil, the US gov is starlinks customer and he sabotages our mission. We subsidizes his start up costs and privatized the profit, fuck this guy.
Hasn’t everything of his been funded until it got legs?
Yes
Every business he has that is not twitter is running on US taxpayer dollars given to him by the government. He's incapable of not running something into the ground without subsidies (which he's also whined about people getting)
Wait... the Ukranian service is PAID FOR by the US? Paid. For. Meaning the service should be working at all times, for all reasons. DOD absolutely should be on this. They're not getting what is in that contract if he's doing this. And if he didn't want his company complicit in shit, he never should have been selling services to ANY government for any reason. If you are selling your services, you're selling them regardless of what use they might be like this. You don't get to suddenly decide how its being used once a contract is made. That's not how shit works.
I don’t know why anyone believes Elon didn’t get any subsidies from governments around the world
The DoD contract is from June, the event in question happened before it seems
The reason nothing will be done is we have public trials and Musk knows the government likely doesn’t want to acknowledge how much aide especially intelligence the US is giving Ukraine. It would require sharing capabilities in open court, kinda like the Trump document case where there were plenty more documents he could have been charged with having but it’s safer to not charge him so there is no chance of it spreading further.
I know this is a beast of a different nature but there are safe-guards for this in an espionage trial, which could be made to apply here. That said, nah, I don't really see a prosecution either. Be cooler if there was though. 
This has nothing to do with that. Those are different satellites fully controlled by DoD. Musk sold satellite internet and then interfered in a critical mission by exploiting the system he already sold. He should be held accountable.
I think this has legs. He doesn't need to go on trial. He just needs to be forced out as CEO of SpaceX. He's doing a damn fine job running his other two companies into the ground. I don't see why the US government would stand around waiting for him to come up with some SpaceX sized horrid idea, like rebranding Twitter to X or the Cybertruck.
Yep totally normal not late stage capitalism whatsoever
I'm a bit confused. The issue that happened was before the DoD gave Starlink anything, and your message would seem to imply that Musk should give services out for free to whoever just because, or that Ukraine should have been paying for it instead. Which should it have been? This is top voted comment so I'm sure I'm missing something.
Ukrainian intelligence is probably gonna send musk a lovely surprise one day
I can't wait until the US government gets around and starts breaking up monopolies like they did in the seventies.
Or the 1890s-early 1900s
Trust Busters unite!
I don’t need people spamming about the bad views/stuff he had because I’m aware, but this generation really needs a Teddy Roosevelt to come in. A no fucks given person who just goes in and breaks up the powers that be
I’m hoping for not just a president like this but also a bunch of new members for the house and senate to replace the geriatrics.
I think that's what some people *thought* a certain former President was going to be. But that was severely mistaken, it seems.
Ding ding ding.
Fun fact: when he became president, he wasn't elected. He was pushed into becoming vice-president to limit his ability to do much of anything IIRC. The man who was elected president died almost immediately after being sworn in, giving teddy the top job.
Yep. His time as Governor of NY was filled with him pushing progressive laws into power (including an increase of corporate franchise taxes by almost 10%). He pissed off the party boss of the state senate, so that guy put Teddy’s name into the minds of GOP convention delegates. After some weird turns, finally was accepting of the VP ticket. 4 days after being sworn in, McKinley was shot by an anarchist, died a few days later. The best part is that there was one dude in the convention (a former TR ally in Washington) that fought tooth and nail for the VP spot instead of Teddy. Was quoted as saying something along the lines of “Don’t you understand? If he becomes Vice President, there will be one life between him and the White House.”
Fun fact 2: He was given vice president to get him out of New York where he had a strong agenda to push things through such as anti-corruption reform
well... after JFK it became obvious if you try and be that guy, some fascist will just murder you.
Nah just look at Fidel Castro. The CIA tried killing him for many years.
This is what Trumpers said. This is a tenet of their beliefs.
Except Teddy gave no fucks about industry and only cared about the betterment of his fellow man, meanwhile Donny gave no fucks about his fellow man and only cared about his pocketbook.
Funny enough, that used to be a Republican thing.
So was ending slavery. Now they want to talk about how slavery was actually good for black people.
It's almost.. Like there was some sort of.. IDK.. Party swap?
the easiest way to see this is that modern day republicans wave the flag of the enemy of the republicans during the civil war, and they call it part of their heritage.
They call themselves the Party of Lincoln while throwing tantrums over Confederate statues being taken down, claiming them to be an attack upon their heritage.
Yeah, weird right?
Southern Strategy.
and how the libs are black people and jews, and then how they want to "own the libs".
The party switch was pretty fuuny
God I fucking miss Teddie Roosevelt so much
Wow, you gotta tell me your health routine.
A bully regimen of Dr. Thornbill’s health tonic and Aloysius Calhoun’s calisthenics routine will keep you right as rain.
Don't forget to give her Smeckler's Powder
Not being a fascist jealous money grubbing shithead.
Doesn't seem to stop Dick Cheney.
Citizens United has made that much harder than it used to be. Because politicians need to raise incredible amounts of money to obtain and hold on to elected positions they are beholden to the super rich and large corporations.
Not just corporations, but also nations. Geo-political enemies with cash.
But Alito said that wasn’t going to happen! He wouldn’t lie.
He and his coworkers are above reproach! Especially that Thomas fellow! Absolute salt of the earth! They answer to a higher calling! The job is not worth doing for the pay… But it is worth doing for the principle! He said that! Surely, he wouldn’t lie either!
It’s always pissed me off when they say this. Like yeah John roberts was making millions as a plaintiff rep before the court but alito has always been a judge and Thomas famously wasn’t being hired by any of the big firms he thought he was destined for. Not to mention they make like 300k and have long breaks and clerks do most of the work, don’t act like that’s a teachers salary and workload lol
That’s always been the funniest part for me. I’m a leftie myself but even I know all politicians sometimes oversimplify or spin a Supreme Court case in a simplified to the point of misleading way, but that was a very spot on analysis of what the result of that case would be and alito tried to disagree lmao
Not to mention our illegitimate Supreme Court.
............You're going to be waiting a very long time.
They absolutely suck at it now and have zero back down the ones they have broken just end up back together a couple years later
Angry fun fact the last time a monopoly was broken up in the US was 1982 with AT&T.
What does that have to do with SpaceX, much less Starlink?
Haha yeah right.
What was said: QUESTION: So SpaceX CEO Elon Musk has recently confirmed a report that’s in Walter Isaacson’s new biography of Musk that last year, Musk blocked access to his Starlink satellite network in Crimea in order to disrupt a major Ukrainian attack on the Russian navy there. In other words, Musk effectively sabotaged a military operation by Ukraine, a U.S. ally, against Russia, an aggressor country that invaded a U.S. ally. Should there be repercussions for that? SECRETARY BLINKEN: Jake, I can’t speak to a specific episode. Here’s what I can tell you: Starlink has been a vital tool for the Ukrainians to be able to communicate with each other, and particularly for the military to communicate in their effort to defend all of Ukraine’s territory. It remains so and I would expect it to continue to be critical to their efforts. So what we would hope and expect is that that technology will remain fully available to the Ukrainians. It is vital to what they’re doing. QUESTION: I don’t know that you can’t speak to it; you won’t speak to it. Musk says he was reportedly afraid that Russia would retaliate with nuclear weapons. Musk says that’s based on his private discussions he had with senior Russian officials. Are you concerned that Musk is apparently conducting his own diplomatic outreach to the Russian Government? Really, none of this concerns you? SECRETARY BLINKEN: Jake, I can’t speak to conversations that may or may not have happened. I don’t know. I’m focused on the fact that the technology itself – Starlink – has been really important to the Ukrainians. It remains so and it should continue to be part of what they’re able to call on to be able to communicate with themselves and, again, to have the military be able to communicate. Throughout this Russian aggression, we have – we ourselves have always had to factor in what Russia may do in response to any given thing that we or others do or the Ukrainians do, and we have. But what’s so critical now is that Ukraine has had real success over the past year. I was just in Ukraine, as you know. The last time I was there was almost exactly a year ago. In that year, from the last time I was there till this week, the Ukrainians have retaken more than 50 percent of the territory seized by Russia since February of 2022. They’re now engaged in a critical counteroffensive, and we’re doing everything we can to maximize our support for them along with many other countries so that they can be successful. Starlink is an important part of their success, and as I said, we expect that it will continue to be so. QUESTION: It sounds like Starlink is so important that the U.S. Government doesn’t want to risk offending a capricious billionaire who did some things that I think in another situation the U.S. Government might want to say something about. But let’s move on.
Tapper hitting hard. Gotta love journalism in a democratic society calling government bullshit to their face
If I read between the lines: "Yah, we can't risk alienating the capricious CEO *while the war is ongoing*."
That's why crucial technologies like starlink should never be in private hands ever. Edit: and it's not only Elons fault. The US government has heavily privatized war for a long time now. The US military industrial complex is just insanely powerful and went completely unchecked decade after decade. Musk is the only one besides maybe one or two blackwater ceo's to ever give the rich dudes in the background a face.
Playing the devils advocate here, they were always walking a thin line between using Starkink as a passive communication system, and an integral part of any strategic offenses. Once weaponized, Starlink becomes “military technology,” prohibiting him from legally exporting it outside the United States (e.g. ITAR restrictions). Because of this, the agreement between SpaceX and the Ukrainian government regarding the use of Starlink was for **humanitarian purposes**, such as providing broadband internet access to hospitals, banks, and families affected by the Russian invasion. The real question here is how the world’s largest military became dependent on a commercial product to win a war. I work in the DoD, and the need for LEO satellites in multi-domain operations has been obvious for a decade.
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Why would the US government raise one even if they technically had grounds for one? They are effectively using Ukraine to fight a proxy war with Russia, and they aren't going to intentionally hamper Ukraine unless they have no other choice.
I mean we've technically been hampering them the entire time by not allowing our munitions to be used in Russian territory.
i wonder if the development of “starshield” gets around that?
Pretty much, yes. Elon tweeted several days ago about it, saying SpaceX is developing Starshield, which will be controlled by the US military and will have smaller receivers.
Walter Isaacson said his description of Elon Musk’s decision not to allow his satellite system to be used by Ukraine for an intended attack on a Russian fleet was misstated in the biography of the billionaire he authored. Isaacson, in an excerpt of his book “Elon Musk” published in the Washington Post, had said Musk secretly told his engineers to turn off Starlink coverage within 100 kilometers of the Crimean coast, so that Ukrainian drone subs couldn’t attack the Russian fleet in Sevastopol. The author, first on Twitter and then in the op-ed, corrected this account: “To clarify on the Starlink issue: the Ukrainians THOUGHT coverage was enabled all the way to Crimea, but it was not. They asked Musk to enable it for their drone sub attack on the Russian fleet. Musk did not enable it, because he thought, probably correctly, that woul cause a major war.” Musk himself quoted the tweet, and said Ukraine’s military didn’t read the fine print. “Our terms of service clearly prohibit Starlink for offensive military action, as we are a civilian system, so they were again asking for something that was expressly prohibited,” the world’s richest man wrote. Ukraine officials have maintained the initial account — that Musk turned off the system — was closer to the truth.
Blinken's talking as if he's got a gun to his head.
TLDR: The most powerful nation on earth can’t risk offending the billionaire man-child who can alter the course of war in the Russian’s favor. So we’ll offer him platitudes in the hope he doesn’t damage our war effort further.
Jesus Christ , Tony. Grow a fucking spine, you have the power of the state department at your disposal. I can’t believe I didn’t put my chair through my TV after hearing those milquetoast responses.
It makes my blood boil how this chud has the government by the balls
Thanks for posting blinken’s response lol what a stupid tool
> Starlink is so important Seize it.
I actually kind of get where the secretary is coming from here. What Elon did is definitely treason, but notice that the secretary purposely avoids mentioning Elon himself, instead he focuses on the technology. Ukraine has been using Starlink and they are obviously kicking Russias ass. If it is true that Elon has been having meetings with Russian officials it may be best to keep the situation on the down low. The government definitely already knows if this is true or not and is likely keeping a close eye on Elon. It’s definitely the right move to make it appear to Elon that the government is on his side. If he were to get paranoid he might fully defect, which is not great since he controls this technology, and as a dumb ass, he could easily be manipulated into handing full control over to the Russians if he feels as if the US betrayed him. Right now it is best to play it safe. I bet after the war is over he might see some repercussions for his actions.
Brother, we do not live in a James Bond film. You think Elon is going to defect to Russia and open himself to sanctions from the west?
Elon Musk is a pustulent carbuncle on the ass of the GQP and racist fascists everywhere.
Carbuncle 👍
It ate itself
A cancerous polyp on the anus of humanity
Luckily the carbuncle seems on track to eat itself.
You forgot war criminal :D
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Starlink needs to obtain licenses and authorizations from the FCC to use certain frequencies and orbits for its services, which it has been granting to Starlink in the past, but I think should now reconsider.
One of the benefits of remaining neutral is that you are nobody’s target. Musk is playing with fire, and the Ukranian people may not forget as easily. War is war.
Obviously I don't know him personally but I feel like Musk doesn't understand that there are consequences for his decisions. He can work out the first step in his head (which is usually "I'll do this thing that nobody can stop me from doing"), but the ripple effects always come as a shock to him. He's *never* ready for what happens next, he never has a plan for it, and never said anything intelligent about it. The connection between action and outcome appears to be invisible for him. Now that he's entering the arena of global war with the same attitude, he's opening himself up for something he truly doesn't understand. People get assassinated for the kind of thing he's done. People get their homes or businesses burned to the ground. They can no longer travel freely, and their friends turn their backs. He's also acted directly in opposition to the interests of the very same government he pressured for money. Elon being Elon isn't going to work out for him indefinitely.
End all the tax breaks/incentives for Elon’s companies.
If I was Elon I'd be more worried about Budanov than Blinken. One has a history of orchestrating unaliving people and Elon just ruined an operation meant to save Ukrainian lives.
My guess is he's trying to not get killed by the Russians. He gave the Ukrainians access right off the bat and he probably only realized later that Putin has a history of killing people who stand up against him. He's undoubtedly on a list somewhere in the Kremlin for having the audacity thwart their plans. All the pro Russian shit he's been up to lately strikes me as attempt to curry favor so he doesn't end up drinking thallium tea or having his plane with all of his kids on board have an unplanned rapid disassembly. No matter how the war turns out, if the Putin faction is still in power when the war ends, Elon is not going to last very long. They'll either get him for contributing to their loss or they'll take him out as a lesson to anyone who thinks about standing against them in the future. His only real hope is a regime change.
His kids are safe. He doesn't spend time with them. >unplanned rapid disassembly 🤣🤣🤣
It's actually "Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly" usually shortened to just RUD. And no Elo did not invent that term like many think, it's used in the Aerospace industry since the 60s.
I remember in the Azealia Banks/Grimes back and forth, Grimes mentioned something about Elon being worried the Russians were trying to kill him, and this was in like 2018.
I mean, if Gordon fucking Ramsay was sweating bullets around Putin, then I can kind of understand Elon Musk shitting himself and not wanting to fuck around with Putin. Not trying to excuse Elon’s treasonous acts, but KIND of understand his viewpoint. Kind of.
Reason #2594 why it shouldn’t be Elon’s decision.
Very very doubtful Killing such a prominent american citizen would most likely be considered an act of war Elon has round the clock security so they would have a hard time even getting to him If russians were that stupid they would already have tried to kill lockhead martin personnel or something
Can't we send him to start that colony on Mars?
When people praise the rich, I always think of Elon and how he uses his power for evil sometimes. Makes me scared for the future when the rich have accumulted all wealth, and seeks to become our new kings and emperors, alla Putin and Russia.
That's where I have a feeling Elon is heading. Seriously don't care if that's an off the wall take. He's been more and more " Only I KNOW ( indefinable, convoluted stuff too complicated for ordinary peasants ) and can save the WORLD, I tell you the WORLD ". Vibe I'm getting from the guy. Hope I'm wrong- he's got way too much money for that to be correct.
He is an unhinged, arrogant egomaniac. This guy is dangerous because, though his entire life has been privileged,he truly believes that he alone knows what’s best for the world and his judgement is infallible. He’s spent too much time reading his own PR firm’s press releases. He doesn’t know the first fucking thing about the real world.
Elon has gotten 15 billion from the government in subsidies to be able to make rockets and starlink and all the government contracts on top of that, and then he just shuts down a mission critical operation that is of great interest to the US and its allies to help his dictator friend. If this was Reinmetal, Lockheed Martin, Saab, Boeing, BAE or any other government contractor in any country that turned of core functions in military infrastructure, heads would roll.....
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You mean; #TraitorElonMusk, #SaboteurElonMusk, #DoubleDealingElonMusk.
Why the fuck doesn't the US military or government already have a Starlink system in place? Why are any countries even reliant on a douchebag like Musk? This is the question that needs to be asked. Fuck Musk but this is a failing of the government and military. We can't privatize critical infrastructure. While we use SpaceX, NASA better have a backup plan so that the government can't be held hostage. Or they have the right to nationalize any private company in time of need if they want that sweet tax payer money.
If he been providing Ukraine with this for free then he’d be free to do whatever he wanted. But he’s being paid a shit ton of tax payer money to keep it online, that’s like an ISP restricting your internet access on Sundays because you should be in church you sinful heretic.
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Musk’s taxpayer funded government contracts should be canceled, and all those assets should be removed from his custody by way of imminent domain
The word of the day is treason
Treason? He is not Ukrainian
ITT Americans not knowing what counts as Treason for their country.
Apparently it's now treason for a private US citizen not to help another country send rockets and unmanned drones into a third country. Reddit being it's usual dumb radical self.
I was actively searching in vain for a reasonable take. You appear to be the small light in the darkness. Cheers
This is just a little taste of the future of we don’t have legislation. Cyberpunk style corporations.
if he's going to fight with countries that are enemies of this country they should immediately cancel any government contracts, or tax breaks he has. if you want to side with russia you can get your money from russia.
Shocking, Apartheid Clyde is a Russian Agent.
Critical military infrastructure like Starlink should not be in private hands. That is especially true when the government funded the vast majority of its development. #nationalizespacex
If taxpayers subsidized it for Elon’s company, 100% there should be consequences
Elovny Muskovovich
If you believe Elon should be charged by the DoJ please point to the law you think he broke. Fuck Elon musk, but this rhetoric is stupid, I can nearly guarantee that he didn’t break any criminal law, maybe civil if there was a contract for service, but that’s outside the DoJ’s scope of power.
You're the first sane comment I've found scrolling all the way down from the top. > maybe civil if there was a contract for service And that's the crux of the issue -- the US government never bothered to acquire a suitable service contract with SpaceX before deciding to donate Starlink service to Ukraine. Which, initially, that wasn't really expected to matter, since Ukraine was expected to just use Starlink for comms and intel. Problem started when Ukraine began putting Starlink receivers on drone boats and directly weaponizing the service.....and since they were under the same normal terms of service that every other Joe Schmo Starlink customer is under, they got their service suspended. Starlink needed to have a proper contract from the US government (like they have now) for that service in order to protect their own ass, because otherwise they would be a private company independently providing direct material support to a war. Which is a quick way to get yourself in extremely hot water with various international regulatory bodies, even if you are supporting the "right" side. It's the same reason why gun manufacturer ABC would never in a million years directly provide a bunch of weapons to rebel guerilla forces in some random country, but are happy to accept a contract from the Pentagon for those weapons, which the Pentagon uses to arm those same rebel forces.
Elon only parrots Russian taking points on the war in Ukraine. Elon was seen at the World Cup in rubbing elbows with Russian propagandists. Elon removed “State Sponsored Media” tags from Russian propagandists when he bought Twitter. Elon allowed Russian propagandists to be found AND ACTIVELY RECOMMENDED in search since he took over Twitter. Elon regularly engages with Russian Propagandists on Twitter, increasing exposure to the propaganda accounts. Elon has never visited Ukraine to speak with the leaders or the troops. Elon has never posted public support for Ukraine or engaged with any pro-Ukrainian accounts. Elon is a Russian asset and should not be anywhere near US government contracts or classified information. Any contracts that he or his companies do hold should be nullified.
If only there were some sort of legislation requiring ISP's to maintain neutrality when providing access to the net.
So he is now an active Russian asset and should be treated as such.
Repercussions? Is this still a question, it should be done already.
I'm just happy Elon wasted $40B on the deal for Twitter. The guy thinks he's a genius and disproves it daily.
Starlink should be Eminent domained and Musk should be arrested for Treason.
Why the fuck is Elon helping Russia but getting America subsidies for his shit business ventures
Lol could you imagine if Toyota or Ford could just shut off your engine if they suspected you were driving somewhere they didn’t think you should go? Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he could do this with each and every Tesla they’ve sold. Kind of dystopian in a way.
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Yeah I can't stand Musk but this thread is absolutely insane. The implications are disturbing to say the least. I don't see what he did that was "treason" or a "war crime". Why would he want HIS company to be contributing to acts of war?
Thank you for this..
Given how many of the US government’s three letter organizations have some level of jurisdiction over this I’m shocked that Elon’s lawyers aren’t just throwing every object within reach at him telling him to shut the fuck up. Dude’s going to get his citizenship revoked and find Space-X folded back into NASA and Tesla getting sold off for parts.
As a 24 year federal employee this is the risk you take with contract work. Especially when given to a company whose CEO owes no particular allegiance to the country that hired him.
Maybe we shouldn't be relying on people who aren't in the military to conduct a military operation?
Are they his satellites, yes. Then as his property he can choose who and how they are used. It doesn't matter the political aspect the solution is to always have a communication backup or your own infrastructure.
I don't know the law but can we go after him for shutting off internet to a foreign country?
No.
He didn't shut it off. It was never turned on over Crimea in the first place and the Ukrainians were even told beforehand that Starlink wouldn't be available over occupied areas (mostly to prevent the Russians from using it). They asked for it to be turned on and were denied. They also asked the U.S. government for cruise missiles for other long range strikes and were denied. Why are you upset for Elon holding the same stance as the government?
nromal people would be in jail by now
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He violated the Logan Act. He has had direct communication with Putin.
Seize his assets and deport him. That's what should happen, but it wont.
It’s too profitable for me to keep it going - Elon Emerald Mine Kid Musk
There are people in this world that I personally like and those I don't. Then, there are people who I think are total dicks. Beyond that, there are people I think of as a detriment to society, either through their actions or their influence. Going further, there are people I think belong in jail, either legally or on principle, for the asshole things they do that cause actual harm. Then there's Musk, who came bearing gifts for the Ukranians, begged and pressured the American government to pay for it, and then acted against their interest by secretly sabotaging them to the point where he betrayed them completely resulting in harm done to their nation and perhaps several very real deaths in the short term. I don't even have a way to describe it, but Dante's Inferno reserves the final level of hell for betrayers. And that's where Musk belongs.
Arrest him for treason. He aided our enemy, Russia.
dont hold your breath. what exactly would the government do? exactly....we cant even bring the traitor in chief to trial for attempting to overthrow the govt. again, dont hold your breath.
elon is a dick
Every single contract with him should be cancelled and his assets seized. He’s literally siding a dictator in broad daylight and confessed to it
If he admitted to being a Russian asset,Arrest him !
Giving a single person control of a huge part of essential Internet infrastructure is a terrible idea, and Elon Musk has already proven with Twitter that he will not handle that responsibility well. He was caught throttling traffic on links from Twitter a few weeks ago. Long story short, if you clicked on a link in a tweet to a website that was critical of Musk, the links loaded incredibly slow on purpose (NY Times was one of.the sites). This defies his supposed stance on free speech.
What did Blinken say?
[удалено]
Which unfortunately could mean anything - including that the DOJ is building a case
[See here](https://reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/s/fmuOHXWdus)
The fact that a private company has this capability/control and the US government does not might be an issue for me. We've outsourced space, this is the consequence. Mostly embarrassing.
Nobody outsourced Starlink. SpaceX planned it on their own years ago while every space agency out there mocked it, laughed at it and said it was impractical to build. Now that SpaceX has gambled on it and it paid off, people are complaining that SpaceX controls it?! If anyone isn't happy they are free to build their own constellation like OneWeb is doing. I'm sure SpaceX will be more than happy to get paid to launch them into space.
As if the government can be trusted any more, it's just gonna be the same but in another country
> We've outsourced space, this is the consequence. Space was outsourced from day 1. NASA has never designed and built a launch system itself. They don't even build their own satellites. That said, the "space" part is irrelevant here. The only reason a private company has this control is that the US government neglected to acquire an appropriate service contract with SpaceX before deciding to donate that service to Ukraine. Ukraine was willfully and intentionally breaking the Starlink service contract they had at the time, and got their access suspended because it. The exact same thing can happen any time the US government acquires anything from a private company. That's why contracts and procurement agreements are a thing. Not only do they dictate the exact terms for the service or product being procured, but it protects the company from liability. For example, gun manufacturer ABC can't just go give a shit ton of guns to rebel guerilla forces in country XYZ, the UN and Interpol and whoever else would have a field day with them. But if the US government procures those same weapons from manufacturer ABC and then gives them all to those same rebel forces.....well that's just another Tuesday at the Pentagon. Without the contract from the US government, SpaceX couldn't allow their service to be weaponized. That would have *actually* been an international problem. EDIT: and a domestic problem, since that would place Starlink under ITAR controls, which SpaceX did not have the approvals and certification for. So, US law was literally preventing Ukraine from using Starlink for offensive purposes.
I don't know what to say. We shouldn't have to spell that out for you, guys. His ties to Russia couldn't be any more obvious than that, Jesus Christ. Open your fucking eyes.
Him and Trump. The US has been played and its weakness was worshiping $$$$$$.