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> # [Russia investigates Wagner chief for ‘armed mutiny’ after call for attack on military](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/23/720)
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> Russia’s FSB security service has opened a criminal case for armed mutiny against Wagner’s Yevgeny Prigozhin after the mercenary chief accused the Russian military of targeting his forces and vowed to “destroy” his rivals, in an unprecedented escalation of infighting among Russia’s elite.
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> In a series of audio clips released late on Friday, Prigozhin claimed that a Russian rocket attack had killed scores of his fighters, vowing to take “revenge” and “stop the evil brought by the military leadership of the country”.
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> “Those who destroyed today our guys, who destroyed tens, tens of thousands of lives of Russian soldiers will be punished. I’m asking: no one resist,” Prigozhin said.
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> Prigozhin also published a video which he claims shows the aftermath of the rocket attack by the Russian ministry of defence on a Wagner camp in Russia’s southern Rostov region.
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> “Everyone who will try to resist, we will consider them a danger and destroy them immediately, including any checkpoints on our way. And any aviation that we see above our heads,” he added.
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> “I’m asking everyone to remain calm, do not succumb to provocations, and remain in their houses. Ideally, those along our way, do not go outside. After we finished what we started, we will return to the frontline to protect our motherland,” Prigozhin said.
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> In a virtual declaration of war against his rivals in the Russian military, Prigozhin said he controlled 25,000 fighters and that together “we are going to figure out why the chaos is happening in the country”.
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> “Anyone who wants should join. We need to end this mess,” he said.
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> The FSB said in a statement that Prigozhin’s statements “had no basis”.
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> “In connection with these statements, the FSB of Russia initiated a criminal case on the fact of calling for an armed rebellion. We demand that illegal actions be stopped immediately,” the FSB said.
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> Vladimir Putin’s spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, said the Russian president was “aware of the situation unfolding around Prigozhin”.
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> “All necessary measures are being taken,” Russian state media quoted Peskov saying. Under the Russian criminal code, a mutiny conviction carries a 20-year prison sentence.
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> According to several Telegram channels linked to security services, an emergency protocol has been implemented in Rostov, the city from where Prigozhin said Shoigu directed the supposed strike on his troops.
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> The “Citadel protocol” implies full mobilisation of the local security services. Pictures published by local media showed armour vehicles appearing on the streets of the city. Baza, a Telegram channel linked to Russian security services, reported that helicopters were seen flying over Rostov.
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> It was not immediately clear what Prigozhin’s objectives were and whether his threats were directed at the Kremlin.
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> “This is not a military coup, this is a march of justice. Our actions do not hinder the armed forces in any way,” the Wagner chief said, adding that the “majority of soldiers” were on his side.
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> The warlord has been arguing with top military officials for months, singling out the minister of defence, Sergei Shoigu, for battlefield failures.
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> Russia’s defence ministry quickly issued a statement dismissing Prigozhin’s audio messages as a “provocation”.
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> “All the messages and video footage distributed on social networks on behalf of E Prigozhin about the alleged ‘strike by the RF Ministry of Defense on the rear camps of PMC Wagner’ do not correspond to reality and are an informational provocation,” the defence ministry said.
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> Earlier in the day, Prigozhin accused Moscow’s leadership of [lying to the public about the justifications for invading Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/23/wagner-chief-accuses-moscow-of-lying-to-public-about-ukraine-yevgeny-prigozhin), denying Moscow’s claims that Kyiv was planning to launch an offensive on the Russian-controlled territories in eastern Ukraine in February 2022.
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> “There was nothing extraordinary happening on the eve of February 24,” Prigozhin said.
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> “The ministry of defence is trying to deceive the public and the president and spin the story that there was insane levels of aggression from the Ukrainian side and that they were going to attack us together with the whole Nato block,” the Wagner head said.
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> Shortly after [Russia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia) attacked Ukraine, Putin claimed Moscow’s invasion had thwarted Ukraine’s own plans for “a massive attack on the Donbas, and then on the Crimea”.
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> Prigozhin also said Russia’s leadership could have avoided the war by negotiating with Ukraine’s president, Volodomyr Zelenskiy.
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> “When Zelenskiy became president, he was ready for agreements. All that needed to be done was to get off Mount Olympus and negotiate with him,” he said.
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> Prigozhin’s tirades on Friday marked a new escalation of his war of words with political rivals, directly contradicting Putin’s rationale for the invasion, and implying it was based on lies in the harshest criticism by any prominent Russian war figure of the decision to attack Ukraine.
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> “What was the war for? The war needed for Shoigu to receive a hero star … The oligarchic clan that rules Russia needed the war,” he said.
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> “The mentally ill scumbags decided: ‘It’s OK, we’ll throw in a few thousand more Russian men as cannon fodder. They’ll die under artillery fire, but we’ll get what we want,’” Prigozhin continued.
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> While the warlord was careful not to directly attack the Russian president, Prigozhin did question several decisions made by Putin, including the Kremlin’s decision to exchange more than 100 captured Azov fighters for [Viktor Medvedchuk](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/13/viktor-medvedchuk-arrest-matter-to-kremlin), a close ally of Putin.
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> Prigozhin, whose Wagner troops have pulled back from Bakhmut, also attacked Russia’s current war efforts in the face of Ukraine’s counteroffensive.
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> Directly contradicting Putin’s claims that Moscow has fended off Kyiv’s counterattack, Prigozhin also accused the Russian military leadership of lying to the public about the scale of its losses and setbacks in Ukraine.
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> “The Russian army is retreating in all directions and shedding a lot of blood … What they tell us is the deepest deception.”
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There is a non-zero chance that he succeeds in his coup. This seems like a guy that would be far more likely to use his nukes.
The only good outcome is that he gets very close to winning but ultimately loses leaving a weakened but not dead Putin regime.
It would be unprecedented in modern history to have a mercenary turned chief of state. I wonder how the world, especially by the West, would take it if they're dealing with a mercenary as a leader of a nation.
>It would be unprecedented in modern history to have a mercenary turned chief of state
Isn't that just like half of Africa? Trade mercenary for warlord
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what we usually think of warlords (almost always those in Africa) are not the same as for-profit mercenaries like Wagner. Most warlords that crop up are born with ideology in mind but mercenaries don't have any. They're just in it for the money. It'll be strange to have a for-profit leader of Russia if things come to that.
>mercenaries don't have any.
I disagree. Mercenaries are clearly extreme capitalists.
And I don't mean extreme as in a crazy or outlandish way. But that money can buy everything.
To use a movie quote.
"Yesterday we were an army with no country, tomorrow we must decide which country we want to buy!"
Wagner has been effectively part of the Russian state since it was created, he's not a foreign mercenary turned opportunist he's an integral part of Putins inner circle and has been for decades.
Yep. I think what the Russian have done is created a Russian version of the French foreign legion. And the FFL revolted against the French state during decolonization.
He’s extremely shrewd, the guy leveraged making a hotdog Putin liked into being in a position to launch a coup.
Edit: he didn’t laugh a coup, he launched it.
Yes, and the group was even deliberately named after Hitler's favorite composer. Fascists fighting each other is inevitable. A fascist cannot abide another fascist for very long, because they all want absolute total power. They do not like sharing power.
For collectivists like socialists and fascists, there is either total domination of one over the other or war. Look at maos relationship to Stalin and then kruschev.
The USA handed a whole ass country over to a terrorist organization recently. I don’t think they care who’s in charge as long as they can still have a “bigger dick.”
The Taliban isn't a for-profit paramilitary group. People seem to conflate warlords and terrorist groups with mercenaries. The latter tend to have no ideologies, swear no allegiances to anyone, and go wherever the pay goes.
the Wagner group directly attacked an US army base (suicide attack, but still). That is on top of all their war crimes in Ukraine and Africa. They're scum. I wouldn't be suprised if many Russians despise them, too, given that they mass recruit prisoners
I believe you’re referencing when a good number of them got turned into pink mist in Syria? IIRC then, US forces specifically asked the Russians if that group was with them and the response was “nope” or some such. I’d figured *that* would have pissed them off.
We know he was talking to Ukraine even while he was still in Bakhmut. I would not be surprised if there was an agreement in place to only start the counteroffensive after he had left.
They seemed very happy to invade Ukraine when things were going their way. His newfound desire for peace seems more like a pretext for starting another conflict, if you ask me.
> The only good outcome is that he gets very close to winning but ultimately loses leaving a weakened but not dead Putin regime.
That, in my opinion, would be a great outcome, yes.
But I'm not so sure he would use nukes. On one hand, yeah, wagner... "tactics", for a lack of a better word, are extremely brutal, straightforward but inefficient, so that's right up his alley. At the same time, his reputation as new dictator wouldn't necessarily be staked on war in Ukraine. Recent pivot in messaging to "war based on lies" and similar rhetoric could act as a build up to blaming putin and shoigu for this special military fiasco and withdrawing after taking power.
I could certainly see Putin just giving the military to him since he’s the only one actually winning even a little bit. Plus then Putin could blame everything on the last guy and call it quits with just the land that’s “legally” his.
Though Putin s also deeply paranoid of being usurped so he might just prefer the incompetent military leader instead
Why would he? Putin is in a desperate situation, he can't win the war without losing face (because it'll be a pyrrhic victory if anything) and at the same time he can't make any kind of peace without the annexation of Ukraine without losing face.
Using nukes or anything like that will just cause more chaos and weaken the power. As a new leader he'd have a lot to lose and would want to try to stabilize Russia's position ASAP. As to conceding with Ukraine he had a simple excuse: Putin fucked up badly. He can just argue that, independent of the morality of the war (he can't take sides here), Putin put Russia in a weak position that set them to lose, and now he has to come and fix the mess that Putin did, which will require compromises and sacrifices. Once "the mess has been cleaned" (read never) he'll leave and let the Russian people decide for themselves.
That said this doesn't mean he'll be better than Putin, only time will tell us.
He didn't mention Putin in his video. Putin might have known beforehand what he was planning. Maybe the end goal is for Wagner to take over command of the MoD. If this turns out to be an actual civil war against the entire regime, we should indeed be worried.
Even if Putin is orchestrating this, it will not go well for him. If Prigozhin succeeds in taking over the military then the amount of public power he gets will be immense. Everyone will realize that Prigozhin gets to do anything he wants and no one can stop him. They will flock to his banner in order to protect themselves and abandon Putin who is clearly weak.
Problem is, if Prigozhin takes over Russia's military whats stopping him from taking over the rest of Russia? He'd be more powerful than Putin at that point.
Surely Putin knows this, which is why I doubt this is some sort of weird false flag thing. I think this is the real deal.
> The only good outcome is that he gets very close to winning but ultimately loses leaving a weakened but not dead Putin regime.
Sounds like you have just described the 2024 DeSantis campaign against Trump running as an independent.
I agreed until I thought of what it would be like if Russia was out of the question and China could use Wagner to enforce their Belt and Road initiative or pepper them around the South China Sea. Like the way Russia has been using them as shock troops or irregulars with ‘no connection’ or accountability is a terrifying thought. Would be very interesting, geopolitically speaking
Wagner are allegedly responsible for killing Chinese workers in CAR a few months ago. Wagner fight rebels for CAR, CAR blame rebels, rebels blame Wagner.
Are you suggesting ruzzian civil war becoming a NATO-China proxy war?
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You know what? With crazy shit happening during last years, yeah, that feels oddly plausible. I don't think that's what going to happen, but it doesn't seem too ridiculous to be plausible.
He's a junior member, he's not a prince but he's far from being some unknown merc.
You don't get to have a private army doing putins dirty work without a serious measure of trust you wont turn against him.
Ironically.
Prison system recruitment, mostly. Wagner has a contingent of profession soldiers who generally give the Ukrainians a lot of difficulty, but there’s a large portion of mostly disposable prisoners who are used for probing strikes and low value missions. Wagner is used for the dirty jobs the Russian military can’t or won’t do, like the bloody fighting in Bakhmut or “totally not Russian soldiers” fighting in Syria. They also operate a blend of top of the line Russian equipment like the T-90m, and also scraps that they scrounged from Russian surplus, which in a lot of ways mirrors their force structure as a whole.
>He has a private army of 50,000+ loyal specifically to him,
His army mostly consists of former troops of russia, is trained and treated by Russia and armed by Russia. People loyal to him specifically would be hardly in triple digits. Its like saying blackwater soldiers were loyal to Prince.
Whats even more interesting is that Prigozhin's army is growing. Russian military regulars aren't opposing him. They're either standing down, or they're even joining him for his march on Moscow.
Putin must be genuinely terrified. The troops he sent to stop the rebels are **joining** the rebels instead of fighting them.
I want to remind all, Wagner Group is NOT a friend.
They may be taking some action we approve of because infighting, but they are absolute evil.
Wagner Group is not an ally, not now or ever.
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For decades they’ve been Putin’s deniable asset for any warcrime too unpalatable for Russian media to spin in their PR favor, while being his de facto private army.
They also have known ties to Neo Nazism and other far right groups. Irony
Wagner operatives have been accused of committing war crimes in areas including, but not limited to rape and robbery of civilians, as well as torturing accused deserters.
They also have been labeled as a criminal organization by the US government after they attacked an US base, and may have strong feelings towards Nazi ideology. Dmitry Utkin is said to have several Nazi tatoos including a a swastika, a Nazi eagle and SS lightning bolts. Wagner mercenaries are reported to have left behind neo-Nazi propaganda in the war zones where they’ve fought, including graffiti with hate symbols. This is also backed up by the fact that they are named after a composer that is known to be adored by Hitler.
So this is the Russian equivalent of whom to choose between ISIS and Assad? Only this time it's about a country with the biggest arsenal of nuclear weapons
There are better answers but a very simple and short one is; one of the people who created the Wagner group has an SS tattoo.
They are literal nazi's, which, now that I think about it, might mean that Putin has "de-nazified" Ukraine after all, by luring the nazi's he put there to himself.
Have them weaken each other enough so Ukraine not only succeeds in their counter offensive but actually manages to win the war and somehow that will lead to truce-deal that de-militarizes Russia?
Yeah okay, never mind. There is optimism and there is what I just wrote.
Well, I'm just trying to be optimistic here, but...
Considering the state of the Russian army, how much of their nukes are actually functional at all? Those things sound like they are expensive to maintain. And Russian oligarchs' favourite hobby is to plunder the Russian state anyway they can.
>In 1971, Robert Dahl summarized the fundamental rights and freedoms shared by all liberal democracies as eight rights
>Freedom to form and join organizations.
>Freedom of expression.
>Right to vote.
>Right to run for public office.
>Right of political leaders to compete for support and votes.
>Freedom of alternative sources of information
>Free and fair elections.
>Right to control government policy through votes and other expressions of preference.
From what Putin has done in the past, he is the very opposite of liberal democrat.
Juding from his comment history, he is a Trumpist instead of Kremlin troll.
He simply use "libs" and "democrats" as slur. Not even knowing "liberals" is a right wing ideology in Europe.
Has anyone made the staying away from windows, polonium/ novachok, two shots to the back of his head —- suic1de jokes yet ??
They’re fresh and original on every article
Even if it's overdone at least in other cases they it's somewhat accurate, but to think they can just as easily deal with Wagner shows a lot of ignorance on their part
I don't watch the news. Too many personal opinions stretched over long periods. When I started Reddit my home feed looked like news on various ongoings. Lately it's been r/terriblefacebookmemes, r/whitepeopletwitter, and r/justunsubbed. Despite not having joined any of the three. This sub fixed that.
>I don't watch the news.
The guardian is a newspaper...
Subreddits just regurgitate popular stories. News don't write themselves, it requires journalists and money. Consider paying for and reading a proper newspaper.
>Despite not having joined any of the three.
You can tell Reddit that you want to see none or less of certain posts/subs. It's very easy, just use the three-dots-button.
There are so many newspapers though. This sub helps curate the news stories so I see relevant articles. And I'm aware of the three dots and will consider using them more often.
He's got enough muscle on his side to have significantly better chances than snowball in hell. Though I still expect this rebellion to fizzle out or get squashed unless Chechens and other minorities overstretch internal security by trying to break away from ruzzia.
But I have been surprised by this war a couple of times already, so I'm not willing to bet on any outcome, even though I expected civil war in ruzzia. What I didn't expect was something like that happening this year, or started by wagner. I thought it was going to be another couple years and would start with breakaway regions.
I feel bad for the people of Russia, they don't deserve this.
Shit's gonna be poppin' off now though..
Also, the windows and 2 shots and poisoning jokes are kinda getting lame now. We get it, Russia likes to send the message that they will kill people if they need to. Actually, scratch that, we should say these things more often to help them spread that message!
>the people of Russia
The people also bear some responsibility. Too few went protesting when it was still possible, too few are interested in politics, too few supported real journalism, they build a strong civil society and didn't work on their dark history. (Unlike the Ukrainians.) Many of them buy into the propaganda victim cult and are basically imperialists/tsarists.
Nobody would say that the German people didn't bear some responsibility for Hitlerism.
Dude, you know what happens to people when they protest on Russia, right?
They live in a different world. Russian children grow up on stories of life's unfairness. They are taught to essentially suck it up. All that has been happening and happening to them is *normal* to a certain extent. This isn't right, and the people need help. They need to know more about the positives of the world and not to expect every future to be bleak.
>Dude, you know what happens to people when they protest on Russia, right?
I said "when it was still possible", i.e., 2000-2015 or so.
The Ukrainians protested against a similar crook, Yanukovich, with 108 protesters dying on the Maidan. They won and escaped tyranny.
Russia had very brave and impressive opposition politicians: Nemzov, Kara-Murza, Politovskays, Schulmann, Yushenkov, Kasparov, Navalny. But they did not receive enough support.
>Russian children grow up on stories of life's unfairness.
Their parents bare responsibility and guilt, too. This is what I meant. Fatalism, no interest in politics.
>They need to know more about the positives of the world and not to expect every future to be bleak.
That's what I'm saying, just with a different emphasis. My emphasis is on having a political goal, a vision for the future.
>This isn't right, and the people need help.
This is where we disagree. Russians tend to think that they have no agency, that everything that happens is orchestrated and synthetic. What they need is to help themselves, to realize their agency, and to win for once.
I believe the nuclear international watchdog is there with Russian and Ukraine scientists. The issue is if ukraine wants to bomb it or not because Russia storage their weapons there.
My point was just that it's possible to have a nuclear disaster even if the reactor is shut down. There's still plenty of radioactive material there - the fact that an international watchdog is present only backs this up.
Could be the case. It seems like he’s going after a general and not Putin.
Super interesting stuff. I can’t see it going well for Russians. Could it end the war? I doubt even if it’s 100% legit he could actually take on the Russian state, but it could distract the Russian army. That is, if it’s real.
Maybe Putin is desperate for a way out, and this is one that saves his reputation for hardliners? Russian politics is very wwe.
Here's my theory:
Wagner has been putting on a big show over the last month or so and mouthing off. Now they release this statement which is full of piss and bravado, 'trust us we'll look after your kids', talks about other rebel forces, but is targeting MoD not Putin.
I just saw a video on another sub that purports to show police and military in Moscow getting ready to defend against Wagner, which is showy with lots of sirens and light on what appears to be main streets. It's a marketing exercise.
Wagner, of part thereof, 'marches' into Russia, maybe engages in some light skirmishes and murder, while moving forward without significant opposition from Russian forces and all the while the head of Wagner keeps mouthing off.
Putin pulls most Russian troops from Ukraine to 'focus on the internal strife', but probably keeps some near the border for future plans, including some of Wagner's cohort.
Meanwhile Putin doesn''t make the kind of statements on the situation you might expect in terms of frequency and a robust response. Belarus might bang on with rhetoric from the sidelines because that's what they do. The military response appears to focus more on the other rebel forces which are either severely diminished or wiped out. Putin's/Wagner's government critics are silenced, one way or another.
Putin saves face by withdrawing from Ukraine which has not worked out the way he'd hoped, avoids being obliterated by NATO, and gets rid of his internal critics/opposition, including non-Wagner rebels. Wagner gets rid of their internal critics/opposition, proves themselves useful to Putin once again and probably gets paid for it along the way, and gets community support for 'not killing children (conscripts)'.
This is a joint exercise, designed for the mutual benefit for Putin and Wagner and their associates.
I doubt that. Look what the alternative for Putin would have been. Blame Shoigu for the failed war and jail him for corruption. Send Shoigu to a Siberian labour camp. withdraw from Ukraine and declare mission accomplished to lick his wounds.
But an open civil war questions his authority. Even if he comes out on top he will be seen as someone who let it happen.
Also there is no way for Prighozin to come back from this, why would he throw his life away like this?
>Also there is no way for Prighozin to come back from this, why would he throw his life away like this?
I don't agree with the above fiction in any way. But Prighozin is old, all he had going for him was his influence as this big mercenary group leader. Now that mercenary group is ordered to be part of defence ministry anyway. This completely obliterates any chances of him becoming more than a military guy. So he is throwing this tantrum bcoz either way there is no coming back. He is trying to leverage the position Russian state is in where they really don't want open rebellion into a better contract.
He's 62 years. He might have another 20 years left.
And now Putin has basically declared him an enemy of the state. The only way out now for Prighozin now is to depose Putin or die. Or secede, which may have been the plan all along.
He is old in the sense that he is too old to start a new schtick that would propel him to higher society elites. So if it had gone as usual, without this new order, he could leverage his performance in war into becoming say governer of one of the new areas or even better some kind of path to becoming defence minister. With the new law he would be made irrelevant. And he is certainly not like you or me who would be fine with irrelevance if it means we get to live 5-10 years more.
Prighozin has crazy ptsd , he actually hanged around with his soldiers and supportive of ukranians , Wagner used to have a huge ukraine Mercenaries within their ranks. Seeing his soldiers die left and right without any support from the MoD probably triggered him to not care anymore. It's why Wagner and also Russian troops supports because he stands with the soldiers
That's certainly possible, but there's one thing I wonder about: what kind of power base and control over army shoigu has? Because he won't just sit tight and let himself be hanged on a lamp post as scapegoat.
Even if this is orchestrated between prigozin and putin, it doesn't mean intended scapegoats can't turn fake civil war into real one if their life is at stake.
>I don’t think the coups is against Putin but a general of the MOD.
Not even that. He is making a ruckus in the hopes that to keep him quiet he is offered a better deal. Without Russian defence ministry, Wagner would have a hard time existing.
>Under the Russian criminal code, a mutiny conviction carries a 20-year prison sentence.
So mutiny is only 5y more than speaking out against the government?
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If Putin had been intelligent and went in on a compromise with the Wagner group, he could’ve avoided this all together.
Putin dug his own chance into the grave
He seems to wish for an unalive attemp on himself by defenestration while shooting himself 15 times at his back while drinking polonium tea.
This man seems highly depressed.
##### ###### #### > # [Russia investigates Wagner chief for ‘armed mutiny’ after call for attack on military](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/23/720) > > > > Russia’s FSB security service has opened a criminal case for armed mutiny against Wagner’s Yevgeny Prigozhin after the mercenary chief accused the Russian military of targeting his forces and vowed to “destroy” his rivals, in an unprecedented escalation of infighting among Russia’s elite. > > In a series of audio clips released late on Friday, Prigozhin claimed that a Russian rocket attack had killed scores of his fighters, vowing to take “revenge” and “stop the evil brought by the military leadership of the country”. > > “Those who destroyed today our guys, who destroyed tens, tens of thousands of lives of Russian soldiers will be punished. I’m asking: no one resist,” Prigozhin said. > > Prigozhin also published a video which he claims shows the aftermath of the rocket attack by the Russian ministry of defence on a Wagner camp in Russia’s southern Rostov region. > > “Everyone who will try to resist, we will consider them a danger and destroy them immediately, including any checkpoints on our way. And any aviation that we see above our heads,” he added. > > “I’m asking everyone to remain calm, do not succumb to provocations, and remain in their houses. Ideally, those along our way, do not go outside. After we finished what we started, we will return to the frontline to protect our motherland,” Prigozhin said. > > In a virtual declaration of war against his rivals in the Russian military, Prigozhin said he controlled 25,000 fighters and that together “we are going to figure out why the chaos is happening in the country”. > > “Anyone who wants should join. We need to end this mess,” he said. > > The FSB said in a statement that Prigozhin’s statements “had no basis”. > > “In connection with these statements, the FSB of Russia initiated a criminal case on the fact of calling for an armed rebellion. We demand that illegal actions be stopped immediately,” the FSB said. > > Vladimir Putin’s spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, said the Russian president was “aware of the situation unfolding around Prigozhin”. > > “All necessary measures are being taken,” Russian state media quoted Peskov saying. Under the Russian criminal code, a mutiny conviction carries a 20-year prison sentence. > > According to several Telegram channels linked to security services, an emergency protocol has been implemented in Rostov, the city from where Prigozhin said Shoigu directed the supposed strike on his troops. > > The “Citadel protocol” implies full mobilisation of the local security services. Pictures published by local media showed armour vehicles appearing on the streets of the city. Baza, a Telegram channel linked to Russian security services, reported that helicopters were seen flying over Rostov. > > It was not immediately clear what Prigozhin’s objectives were and whether his threats were directed at the Kremlin. > > “This is not a military coup, this is a march of justice. Our actions do not hinder the armed forces in any way,” the Wagner chief said, adding that the “majority of soldiers” were on his side. > > > > The warlord has been arguing with top military officials for months, singling out the minister of defence, Sergei Shoigu, for battlefield failures. > > Russia’s defence ministry quickly issued a statement dismissing Prigozhin’s audio messages as a “provocation”. > > “All the messages and video footage distributed on social networks on behalf of E Prigozhin about the alleged ‘strike by the RF Ministry of Defense on the rear camps of PMC Wagner’ do not correspond to reality and are an informational provocation,” the defence ministry said. > > Earlier in the day, Prigozhin accused Moscow’s leadership of [lying to the public about the justifications for invading Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/23/wagner-chief-accuses-moscow-of-lying-to-public-about-ukraine-yevgeny-prigozhin), denying Moscow’s claims that Kyiv was planning to launch an offensive on the Russian-controlled territories in eastern Ukraine in February 2022. > > “There was nothing extraordinary happening on the eve of February 24,” Prigozhin said. > > “The ministry of defence is trying to deceive the public and the president and spin the story that there was insane levels of aggression from the Ukrainian side and that they were going to attack us together with the whole Nato block,” the Wagner head said. > > Shortly after [Russia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia) attacked Ukraine, Putin claimed Moscow’s invasion had thwarted Ukraine’s own plans for “a massive attack on the Donbas, and then on the Crimea”. > > Prigozhin also said Russia’s leadership could have avoided the war by negotiating with Ukraine’s president, Volodomyr Zelenskiy. > > “When Zelenskiy became president, he was ready for agreements. All that needed to be done was to get off Mount Olympus and negotiate with him,” he said. > > Prigozhin’s tirades on Friday marked a new escalation of his war of words with political rivals, directly contradicting Putin’s rationale for the invasion, and implying it was based on lies in the harshest criticism by any prominent Russian war figure of the decision to attack Ukraine. > > “What was the war for? The war needed for Shoigu to receive a hero star … The oligarchic clan that rules Russia needed the war,” he said. > > > > “The mentally ill scumbags decided: ‘It’s OK, we’ll throw in a few thousand more Russian men as cannon fodder. They’ll die under artillery fire, but we’ll get what we want,’” Prigozhin continued. > > While the warlord was careful not to directly attack the Russian president, Prigozhin did question several decisions made by Putin, including the Kremlin’s decision to exchange more than 100 captured Azov fighters for [Viktor Medvedchuk](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/13/viktor-medvedchuk-arrest-matter-to-kremlin), a close ally of Putin. > > Prigozhin, whose Wagner troops have pulled back from Bakhmut, also attacked Russia’s current war efforts in the face of Ukraine’s counteroffensive. > > Directly contradicting Putin’s claims that Moscow has fended off Kyiv’s counterattack, Prigozhin also accused the Russian military leadership of lying to the public about the scale of its losses and setbacks in Ukraine. > > “The Russian army is retreating in all directions and shedding a lot of blood … What they tell us is the deepest deception.” - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
>this is not a military coup, Says every military coup.
It's actually just an armed insurrection
“Special Operation”
“Coup Royale with ~~Cheese~~ *Borsht*”?
"De-putin-ify"
“Parasite removal”
3 days!
special march for "justice" operation
Sparkling discontent
Just like how the Korean War was a “police action”
Special couping operation
Hes just using language that Putin understands. An internal special military exercise and peaceful de nazification
This dude should stay away from windows and take care to not "accidentally" ingest some polonium.
He has a private army of 50,000+ loyal specifically to him, I don't think this is as simple as "Putin has him whacked."
There is a non-zero chance that he succeeds in his coup. This seems like a guy that would be far more likely to use his nukes. The only good outcome is that he gets very close to winning but ultimately loses leaving a weakened but not dead Putin regime.
What makes you think he'll use nukes? He even stated that "Zelensky was willing to negotiate", meaning he's more open to negotiation than Putin.
It would be unprecedented in modern history to have a mercenary turned chief of state. I wonder how the world, especially by the West, would take it if they're dealing with a mercenary as a leader of a nation.
>It would be unprecedented in modern history to have a mercenary turned chief of state Isn't that just like half of Africa? Trade mercenary for warlord
Yeah and the Taliban would like to have a word
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what we usually think of warlords (almost always those in Africa) are not the same as for-profit mercenaries like Wagner. Most warlords that crop up are born with ideology in mind but mercenaries don't have any. They're just in it for the money. It'll be strange to have a for-profit leader of Russia if things come to that.
>mercenaries don't have any. I disagree. Mercenaries are clearly extreme capitalists. And I don't mean extreme as in a crazy or outlandish way. But that money can buy everything. To use a movie quote. "Yesterday we were an army with no country, tomorrow we must decide which country we want to buy!"
>30 years of runaway oligarchs literally selling out the entire nation. Strange and unprecedented, yup yup.
But with ICBMs and nukes.
Except he would have about 6,000 nukes at his command.
Wagner has been effectively part of the Russian state since it was created, he's not a foreign mercenary turned opportunist he's an integral part of Putins inner circle and has been for decades.
Yep. I think what the Russian have done is created a Russian version of the French foreign legion. And the FFL revolted against the French state during decolonization.
If the rumours of them being incorporated back into the MOD are true then they've got rid ofthem
He’s extremely shrewd, the guy leveraged making a hotdog Putin liked into being in a position to launch a coup. Edit: he didn’t laugh a coup, he launched it.
That was hilarious, take my upvote.
Considering how much many of them also like to make money from conflicts, im sure he'll fit right in
Well Putin is already a cunt so it can't be much worse
Aren't Wagner openly Nazis?
Yes, and the group was even deliberately named after Hitler's favorite composer. Fascists fighting each other is inevitable. A fascist cannot abide another fascist for very long, because they all want absolute total power. They do not like sharing power.
You mean like how there is only one lord of the ring? Only one who can bend it to his will?
For collectivists like socialists and fascists, there is either total domination of one over the other or war. Look at maos relationship to Stalin and then kruschev.
They are like their socialist ancestors in this regard.
They seem very reminiscent of the French foreign legion in the 50s to me.
The USA handed a whole ass country over to a terrorist organization recently. I don’t think they care who’s in charge as long as they can still have a “bigger dick.”
I am sure having 6,000 nukes would make some difference
Which "whole ass country" are you talking about?
Afghanistan I'd imagine
The Taliban isn't a for-profit paramilitary group. People seem to conflate warlords and terrorist groups with mercenaries. The latter tend to have no ideologies, swear no allegiances to anyone, and go wherever the pay goes.
I don't think they made that claim. They said, and I quote; >The USA handed a whole ass country over to a terrorist organization recently.
the Wagner group directly attacked an US army base (suicide attack, but still). That is on top of all their war crimes in Ukraine and Africa. They're scum. I wouldn't be suprised if many Russians despise them, too, given that they mass recruit prisoners
I believe you’re referencing when a good number of them got turned into pink mist in Syria? IIRC then, US forces specifically asked the Russians if that group was with them and the response was “nope” or some such. I’d figured *that* would have pissed them off.
They asked the Russian military and they said nope, lol all makes sense now
Consider what they just witnessed happen to their troops. This guy might have finally of had his fill of war.
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No, "an US" is grammatically correct. Annoying as shit, and no-one is ever going to use it in casual speech, but correct.
No it isn't.
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Ah. That rule finally makes sense. Thanks!
We know he was talking to Ukraine even while he was still in Bakhmut. I would not be surprised if there was an agreement in place to only start the counteroffensive after he had left.
They seemed very happy to invade Ukraine when things were going their way. His newfound desire for peace seems more like a pretext for starting another conflict, if you ask me.
Maybe. Only time will tell.
When was Zelensky willing to negotiate?
I don't know, I'm just quoting this article and what he said in it.
I think in the beginning (first days of invasion), and before Bucha. Ukraine was willing to discuss about ceding territories, but Russia said no.
> The only good outcome is that he gets very close to winning but ultimately loses leaving a weakened but not dead Putin regime. That, in my opinion, would be a great outcome, yes. But I'm not so sure he would use nukes. On one hand, yeah, wagner... "tactics", for a lack of a better word, are extremely brutal, straightforward but inefficient, so that's right up his alley. At the same time, his reputation as new dictator wouldn't necessarily be staked on war in Ukraine. Recent pivot in messaging to "war based on lies" and similar rhetoric could act as a build up to blaming putin and shoigu for this special military fiasco and withdrawing after taking power.
I could certainly see Putin just giving the military to him since he’s the only one actually winning even a little bit. Plus then Putin could blame everything on the last guy and call it quits with just the land that’s “legally” his. Though Putin s also deeply paranoid of being usurped so he might just prefer the incompetent military leader instead
Why would he? Putin is in a desperate situation, he can't win the war without losing face (because it'll be a pyrrhic victory if anything) and at the same time he can't make any kind of peace without the annexation of Ukraine without losing face. Using nukes or anything like that will just cause more chaos and weaken the power. As a new leader he'd have a lot to lose and would want to try to stabilize Russia's position ASAP. As to conceding with Ukraine he had a simple excuse: Putin fucked up badly. He can just argue that, independent of the morality of the war (he can't take sides here), Putin put Russia in a weak position that set them to lose, and now he has to come and fix the mess that Putin did, which will require compromises and sacrifices. Once "the mess has been cleaned" (read never) he'll leave and let the Russian people decide for themselves. That said this doesn't mean he'll be better than Putin, only time will tell us.
He didn't mention Putin in his video. Putin might have known beforehand what he was planning. Maybe the end goal is for Wagner to take over command of the MoD. If this turns out to be an actual civil war against the entire regime, we should indeed be worried.
Even if Putin is orchestrating this, it will not go well for him. If Prigozhin succeeds in taking over the military then the amount of public power he gets will be immense. Everyone will realize that Prigozhin gets to do anything he wants and no one can stop him. They will flock to his banner in order to protect themselves and abandon Putin who is clearly weak.
Problem is, if Prigozhin takes over Russia's military whats stopping him from taking over the rest of Russia? He'd be more powerful than Putin at that point. Surely Putin knows this, which is why I doubt this is some sort of weird false flag thing. I think this is the real deal.
> The only good outcome is that he gets very close to winning but ultimately loses leaving a weakened but not dead Putin regime. Sounds like you have just described the 2024 DeSantis campaign against Trump running as an independent.
American moment
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A China-Wagner alliance would be wild, not sure I can see it happening tho
I agreed until I thought of what it would be like if Russia was out of the question and China could use Wagner to enforce their Belt and Road initiative or pepper them around the South China Sea. Like the way Russia has been using them as shock troops or irregulars with ‘no connection’ or accountability is a terrifying thought. Would be very interesting, geopolitically speaking
Wagner are allegedly responsible for killing Chinese workers in CAR a few months ago. Wagner fight rebels for CAR, CAR blame rebels, rebels blame Wagner.
Here I was thinking maybe NATO made a deal with him, but China has its own best interests too.
Are you suggesting ruzzian civil war becoming a NATO-China proxy war? ... ... ... You know what? With crazy shit happening during last years, yeah, that feels oddly plausible. I don't think that's what going to happen, but it doesn't seem too ridiculous to be plausible.
China might stay out of it so they can make deals with whoever wins
No warlords have ever been undone by their own arrogance
How did this guy get a private army of 50,000 ?
By being Putins personal chef I'm not actually joking. Prigozhin is a member of Putin's inner circle, he's not just a random mercenary
He‘s an upstart and not actually part of the Siloviki.
He's a junior member, he's not a prince but he's far from being some unknown merc. You don't get to have a private army doing putins dirty work without a serious measure of trust you wont turn against him. Ironically.
Prison system recruitment, mostly. Wagner has a contingent of profession soldiers who generally give the Ukrainians a lot of difficulty, but there’s a large portion of mostly disposable prisoners who are used for probing strikes and low value missions. Wagner is used for the dirty jobs the Russian military can’t or won’t do, like the bloody fighting in Bakhmut or “totally not Russian soldiers” fighting in Syria. They also operate a blend of top of the line Russian equipment like the T-90m, and also scraps that they scrounged from Russian surplus, which in a lot of ways mirrors their force structure as a whole.
>He has a private army of 50,000+ loyal specifically to him, His army mostly consists of former troops of russia, is trained and treated by Russia and armed by Russia. People loyal to him specifically would be hardly in triple digits. Its like saying blackwater soldiers were loyal to Prince.
Lol, your comment aged poorly.
Why?
Whats even more interesting is that Prigozhin's army is growing. Russian military regulars aren't opposing him. They're either standing down, or they're even joining him for his march on Moscow. Putin must be genuinely terrified. The troops he sent to stop the rebels are **joining** the rebels instead of fighting them.
Russia will start systematically "going through" theses people's families until they find a spot to work the shiv.
He's taken over the army HQ in Rostov-on-Don and several corps in Ukraine.
He's also threatening to march on Moscow.
“This is not a coup, but a March on justice.” Just like how this isn’t a war but a special military operation?
“This is no war in ba sing se”
There*
My. Fucking. Cabbages. How could they fuxking ruin that line like that. Best fuxking episodes of the series.
Lol whoops must have been autocorrect
Just like how there were WMD’s
Based
I want to remind all, Wagner Group is NOT a friend. They may be taking some action we approve of because infighting, but they are absolute evil. Wagner Group is not an ally, not now or ever.
If the enemy of my enemy is my friend, that would make both factions my friend here. Fellas, I think I just solved world peace.
I read this in the voice of Coach Steve from Big Mouth
Yogurt balloons lol
Rooting for both sides to lose.
Massive losses for everyone involved please!
everyone but the civilians, that is
Same.
coordinated materialistic plant marry beneficial chase jellyfish dam erect crime *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The enemy of my enemy is… an enemy of my enemy. Nothing more, nothing less.
>but they are absolute evil. What did they do?
For decades they’ve been Putin’s deniable asset for any warcrime too unpalatable for Russian media to spin in their PR favor, while being his de facto private army. They also have known ties to Neo Nazism and other far right groups. Irony
Yikes. Thanks for the information!
Wagner operatives have been accused of committing war crimes in areas including, but not limited to rape and robbery of civilians, as well as torturing accused deserters. They also have been labeled as a criminal organization by the US government after they attacked an US base, and may have strong feelings towards Nazi ideology. Dmitry Utkin is said to have several Nazi tatoos including a a swastika, a Nazi eagle and SS lightning bolts. Wagner mercenaries are reported to have left behind neo-Nazi propaganda in the war zones where they’ve fought, including graffiti with hate symbols. This is also backed up by the fact that they are named after a composer that is known to be adored by Hitler.
So this is the Russian equivalent of whom to choose between ISIS and Assad? Only this time it's about a country with the biggest arsenal of nuclear weapons
There are better answers but a very simple and short one is; one of the people who created the Wagner group has an SS tattoo. They are literal nazi's, which, now that I think about it, might mean that Putin has "de-nazified" Ukraine after all, by luring the nazi's he put there to himself.
It just keeps getting worse by the minute
Utkin(the creator, callsign Wagner) also has SS Officer uniform which he wore during siege of Palmyra, Syria.
Don't look up what they do to folks they deem traitors or cowards.
>I want to remind all, Wagner Group is NOT a friend. That should be obvious to anyone. And neither is NATO.
Please god be true 😇
Be careful what you wish for. I don’t think this guy would be better.
I just wish both of them loses.
Yes. But we can't have instability in Russia because of the nuclear weapons they have right? What is the way out here?
Have them weaken each other enough so Ukraine not only succeeds in their counter offensive but actually manages to win the war and somehow that will lead to truce-deal that de-militarizes Russia? Yeah okay, never mind. There is optimism and there is what I just wrote.
Well, I'm just trying to be optimistic here, but... Considering the state of the Russian army, how much of their nukes are actually functional at all? Those things sound like they are expensive to maintain. And Russian oligarchs' favourite hobby is to plunder the Russian state anyway they can.
you're just replacing a liberal democrat (putler) with people with an even greater affinity for tactical nuclear weapons
> liberal democrat Are you even trying comrade Bubba?
>In 1971, Robert Dahl summarized the fundamental rights and freedoms shared by all liberal democracies as eight rights >Freedom to form and join organizations. >Freedom of expression. >Right to vote. >Right to run for public office. >Right of political leaders to compete for support and votes. >Freedom of alternative sources of information >Free and fair elections. >Right to control government policy through votes and other expressions of preference. From what Putin has done in the past, he is the very opposite of liberal democrat.
When I think democratic and fair elections, I think of putin! Your username seems like some 70 iq way of pushing propaganda
I wish Russia explodes, so the whole colonial empire stops existing.
Juding from his comment history, he is a Trumpist instead of Kremlin troll. He simply use "libs" and "democrats" as slur. Not even knowing "liberals" is a right wing ideology in Europe.
Or a Kremlin troll pretending to be a right wing American to sow disinformation.
I really do not care. His comment history can be whatever, but I am not going to check what it is.
Doesn’t really matter who wins. Either way Russia will be weakened.
Liberal Democrat lol
You obvously don't know the definition of the words you're using.
Has anyone made the staying away from windows, polonium/ novachok, two shots to the back of his head —- suic1de jokes yet ?? They’re fresh and original on every article
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xD kind stranger, you win the internet for today!
It's a tad too predictable.
Never gets old Like wagner conscripts
Even if it's overdone at least in other cases they it's somewhat accurate, but to think they can just as easily deal with Wagner shows a lot of ignorance on their part
- no, because the suicide by tank round to the back of the torso was clearly suicide and no more
I am so grateful I came across this sub. Quality, quality news here.
It's a guardian article. This is on all news channels atm.
I don't watch the news. Too many personal opinions stretched over long periods. When I started Reddit my home feed looked like news on various ongoings. Lately it's been r/terriblefacebookmemes, r/whitepeopletwitter, and r/justunsubbed. Despite not having joined any of the three. This sub fixed that.
>I don't watch the news. The guardian is a newspaper... Subreddits just regurgitate popular stories. News don't write themselves, it requires journalists and money. Consider paying for and reading a proper newspaper. >Despite not having joined any of the three. You can tell Reddit that you want to see none or less of certain posts/subs. It's very easy, just use the three-dots-button.
There are so many newspapers though. This sub helps curate the news stories so I see relevant articles. And I'm aware of the three dots and will consider using them more often.
He truly wants to speedrun the "accidental falling from a building" thing
He's got enough muscle on his side to have significantly better chances than snowball in hell. Though I still expect this rebellion to fizzle out or get squashed unless Chechens and other minorities overstretch internal security by trying to break away from ruzzia. But I have been surprised by this war a couple of times already, so I'm not willing to bet on any outcome, even though I expected civil war in ruzzia. What I didn't expect was something like that happening this year, or started by wagner. I thought it was going to be another couple years and would start with breakaway regions.
Not this case
I feel bad for the people of Russia, they don't deserve this. Shit's gonna be poppin' off now though.. Also, the windows and 2 shots and poisoning jokes are kinda getting lame now. We get it, Russia likes to send the message that they will kill people if they need to. Actually, scratch that, we should say these things more often to help them spread that message!
>the people of Russia The people also bear some responsibility. Too few went protesting when it was still possible, too few are interested in politics, too few supported real journalism, they build a strong civil society and didn't work on their dark history. (Unlike the Ukrainians.) Many of them buy into the propaganda victim cult and are basically imperialists/tsarists. Nobody would say that the German people didn't bear some responsibility for Hitlerism.
Dude, you know what happens to people when they protest on Russia, right? They live in a different world. Russian children grow up on stories of life's unfairness. They are taught to essentially suck it up. All that has been happening and happening to them is *normal* to a certain extent. This isn't right, and the people need help. They need to know more about the positives of the world and not to expect every future to be bleak.
>Dude, you know what happens to people when they protest on Russia, right? I said "when it was still possible", i.e., 2000-2015 or so. The Ukrainians protested against a similar crook, Yanukovich, with 108 protesters dying on the Maidan. They won and escaped tyranny. Russia had very brave and impressive opposition politicians: Nemzov, Kara-Murza, Politovskays, Schulmann, Yushenkov, Kasparov, Navalny. But they did not receive enough support. >Russian children grow up on stories of life's unfairness. Their parents bare responsibility and guilt, too. This is what I meant. Fatalism, no interest in politics. >They need to know more about the positives of the world and not to expect every future to be bleak. That's what I'm saying, just with a different emphasis. My emphasis is on having a political goal, a vision for the future. >This isn't right, and the people need help. This is where we disagree. Russians tend to think that they have no agency, that everything that happens is orchestrated and synthetic. What they need is to help themselves, to realize their agency, and to win for once.
Please God these idiots leave the field and let the experts go in and fix the nuclear reactor.
Reactor is shut down since 2022.
That doesn't mean it's safe.
I believe the nuclear international watchdog is there with Russian and Ukraine scientists. The issue is if ukraine wants to bomb it or not because Russia storage their weapons there.
My point was just that it's possible to have a nuclear disaster even if the reactor is shut down. There's still plenty of radioactive material there - the fact that an international watchdog is present only backs this up.
Putin has all the money in the world. Willing to bet something will happen to this guy before a coup takes place.
I don’t think the coups is against Putin but a general of the MOD. Could also just not be real tho this guy pulls this kind of thing. Hard to say
I think they're in on it together.
Could be the case. It seems like he’s going after a general and not Putin. Super interesting stuff. I can’t see it going well for Russians. Could it end the war? I doubt even if it’s 100% legit he could actually take on the Russian state, but it could distract the Russian army. That is, if it’s real. Maybe Putin is desperate for a way out, and this is one that saves his reputation for hardliners? Russian politics is very wwe.
Here's my theory: Wagner has been putting on a big show over the last month or so and mouthing off. Now they release this statement which is full of piss and bravado, 'trust us we'll look after your kids', talks about other rebel forces, but is targeting MoD not Putin. I just saw a video on another sub that purports to show police and military in Moscow getting ready to defend against Wagner, which is showy with lots of sirens and light on what appears to be main streets. It's a marketing exercise. Wagner, of part thereof, 'marches' into Russia, maybe engages in some light skirmishes and murder, while moving forward without significant opposition from Russian forces and all the while the head of Wagner keeps mouthing off. Putin pulls most Russian troops from Ukraine to 'focus on the internal strife', but probably keeps some near the border for future plans, including some of Wagner's cohort. Meanwhile Putin doesn''t make the kind of statements on the situation you might expect in terms of frequency and a robust response. Belarus might bang on with rhetoric from the sidelines because that's what they do. The military response appears to focus more on the other rebel forces which are either severely diminished or wiped out. Putin's/Wagner's government critics are silenced, one way or another. Putin saves face by withdrawing from Ukraine which has not worked out the way he'd hoped, avoids being obliterated by NATO, and gets rid of his internal critics/opposition, including non-Wagner rebels. Wagner gets rid of their internal critics/opposition, proves themselves useful to Putin once again and probably gets paid for it along the way, and gets community support for 'not killing children (conscripts)'. This is a joint exercise, designed for the mutual benefit for Putin and Wagner and their associates.
I doubt that. Look what the alternative for Putin would have been. Blame Shoigu for the failed war and jail him for corruption. Send Shoigu to a Siberian labour camp. withdraw from Ukraine and declare mission accomplished to lick his wounds. But an open civil war questions his authority. Even if he comes out on top he will be seen as someone who let it happen. Also there is no way for Prighozin to come back from this, why would he throw his life away like this?
>Also there is no way for Prighozin to come back from this, why would he throw his life away like this? I don't agree with the above fiction in any way. But Prighozin is old, all he had going for him was his influence as this big mercenary group leader. Now that mercenary group is ordered to be part of defence ministry anyway. This completely obliterates any chances of him becoming more than a military guy. So he is throwing this tantrum bcoz either way there is no coming back. He is trying to leverage the position Russian state is in where they really don't want open rebellion into a better contract.
He's 62 years. He might have another 20 years left. And now Putin has basically declared him an enemy of the state. The only way out now for Prighozin now is to depose Putin or die. Or secede, which may have been the plan all along.
He is old in the sense that he is too old to start a new schtick that would propel him to higher society elites. So if it had gone as usual, without this new order, he could leverage his performance in war into becoming say governer of one of the new areas or even better some kind of path to becoming defence minister. With the new law he would be made irrelevant. And he is certainly not like you or me who would be fine with irrelevance if it means we get to live 5-10 years more.
Prighozin has crazy ptsd , he actually hanged around with his soldiers and supportive of ukranians , Wagner used to have a huge ukraine Mercenaries within their ranks. Seeing his soldiers die left and right without any support from the MoD probably triggered him to not care anymore. It's why Wagner and also Russian troops supports because he stands with the soldiers
That's certainly possible, but there's one thing I wonder about: what kind of power base and control over army shoigu has? Because he won't just sit tight and let himself be hanged on a lamp post as scapegoat. Even if this is orchestrated between prigozin and putin, it doesn't mean intended scapegoats can't turn fake civil war into real one if their life is at stake.
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> a complete embarrassment You mean like the "special military operation"?
This sounds very plausible.
>I don’t think the coups is against Putin but a general of the MOD. Not even that. He is making a ruckus in the hopes that to keep him quiet he is offered a better deal. Without Russian defence ministry, Wagner would have a hard time existing.
Let's gooooooooooo🎉🎉
I think this is the 1 guy who won't be falling out of a window by accident.
This sounds like a military implosion. :P
LMAO
>Under the Russian criminal code, a mutiny conviction carries a 20-year prison sentence. So mutiny is only 5y more than speaking out against the government?
what a trip.
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So did that poll win over into news.
it's a fake coup to get rid of all traitors
Or maybe he started working with CIA
If he had China would've warned Putin
Honestly i'm wondering if this is a psyop.
If Putin had been intelligent and went in on a compromise with the Wagner group, he could’ve avoided this all together. Putin dug his own chance into the grave
it was a long time coming now lol
nice, now it begins
In a russian civil war, we cheer for all sides 😉
A topic such as this seems remarkably sanguine, eerily so, like a forest without birbs.
He seems to wish for an unalive attemp on himself by defenestration while shooting himself 15 times at his back while drinking polonium tea. This man seems highly depressed.
The thing being that wagner is large enough to be an actual problem
Not really, Russia will integrate it into their military system.
It is already intergrated it always was.