Everything seems fine to me except for the bullet point about wages. Assuming you're in the US, discussion of wages is federally protected. Their policy does not trump federal law, even if you sign it. And if they retaliate or fire you for discussing wages, it's illegal.
That's retaliation and it is in fact the type of discrimination that has the highest likelihood of the victim being successful with their claim. In other words, out of all the claims of discrimination the EEOC receives, they only rule in favor of the claimant a percentage of the time and that percentage is highest with retaliation claims. And the reason why it's the most successful is that [the burden of proof is on the employer to prove it wasn't retaliation](https://www.mcafeetaft.com/retaliation-the-most-successful-discrimination-claim/).
So if you have an employee that has been performing successfully and then they started receiving more scrutiny after they did some protected activity (like allege discrimination or report unsafe or unlawful activity) and then they were ultimately fired, that's a very easy retaliation case because the employer would have to prove that the employee didn't receive more scrutiny because of retaliation. And then a lot of managers don't really understand what constitutes discrimination based on retaliation in the same way they understand discrimination based on something like race or sex
Exactly what happened to me. They retaliated to the point where, though I was not fired, I had no choice but to resign for my own well-being. They rejected all of my multiple reasonable options I gave them for reasonable accommodation to continue employment with confirmed medical documentation because it was inconvenient for them. But only inconvenient because they had me doing two jobs since a person quit, and they didn’t want to lose the second job I never agreed to.
Idk how long ago that happened and if there's a statute of limitations for retaliation but that sounds like a strong case for retaliation or not providing reasonable accommodation, but you'd have to file through EEOC or consult with a lawyer (even if you can't afford a lawyer, many will do a free consultation and only take payment if you win). But yeah it sucks that they can kinda get away with it because many Americans don't know their rights. Even if you're well off now, might still be worth looking into to stop them from doing it in the future and to get some money for yourself. Fuck em
Thanks, I do know my rights, but unfortunately the statute of limitations of six months for filing a case with the EEOC has passed. I was originally going to, but life got in the way, and also, the definition proof/documentation, I stupidly had on my work email account.
HR had tech support shut down my accounts literally as I was packing my stuff up. I’m talking, five minutes after I resigned. As I was actively attempting to get my emails and paystubs (only accessible on the work computer), each software program I entered was progressively locking me out.
I suspect it was for the very reason of preventing access to things that would help me simply because I mentioned the word “legally.” It was very strange and humiliating, the way I was hovered over while leaving.
I was told I was preforming way above average, and showed no indication that I would do anything crazy like sabotage (which a friend told me could motivate that sort of watchfulness when I told her how crazy it was the way they basically kicked me out) despite me behaving level headed.
They are also a huge nationwide corporation with layers upon layers of HR and several in-company legal teams. So, they have access to highly payed lawyers that specifically are there to protect them?
Me? I can’t even afford a lawyer at all, and as we know, the one with money in a legal case wins. America - Liberty and Justice only if you are rich.
The idea is if you file a wage claim and are subsequently fired, your shift or job duties or your assigned location change for the worse, it’s retaliation. DOL will have e a field day with them. If you bring it to court, any labor lawyer is going to make it hurt.
You kinda can. When you go home every day, write down what happened that day as best you can remember.
I worked with someone who did this, and it really helped her. They were contemporaneous (?). She wrote down what happened every day, and it was a big help for her when management started their bs.
Yeah, agreed. One of the big reasons why stuff like this is difficult to prosecute is a lack of documentation.
If you have a job where you have a work email, make sure to forward any relevant emails to your personal account, too.
On the other hand, they can make a policy and enforce it that says "no non-work related conversation at work" and that's totally legal, and then you can be fired for discussing your wages while you are on the clock. Be careful with advice from strange people on the Internet, is all I'm saying, Pretty is absolutely right, did not say anything incorrect, your right to discuss your wages is firm, but employer can make reasonable time-and-place policies that would preclude you from doing it while at work.
They cannot have a policy that blanket prevents you from sharing your wage information with other co-workers. They cannot specifically block discussions of wages, even during work hours, unless it's framed as a broad policy keeping you and your work-time communication on task.
But they cannot prevent you from sharing information outside of work, as that would be a restriction prevented by the NLRA, it's your right to organize and that includes discussion of wages. [https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages)
wtf
> Policies that specifically prohibit the discussion of wages are unlawful *as are policies that chill employees from discussing their wages*.
and
> You may have discussions about wages when not at work, when you are on break, and *even during work if employees are permitted to have other non-work conversations*.
Seem contradictory...
Like, no conversation, means no wage conversation, means chilling employees discussing wages. Maybe it's that it's not specifically chilling wage discussions?
Also, it's kinda weird discussing wages for work isn't work conversation. Like, discussing career development, growth, and plans for the future at least can be work conversations, though certainly not all the time.
Not that the US is any sort of exemplar for worker's rights.
>it's not specifically chilling wage discussions?
That's exactly why. It's meant to not disallow policies which are specifically crafted to help workers stay on-task and to promote their productivity, this means they wouldn't be firing you for having a conversation about wages. They would be firing you for conversation that was off-topic and not essential to your job.
Discussing career development, growth, and plans for the future can most certainly be work conversations, and the employer can insist that you reserve those discussions for the time and place (eg. "at your review.")
The NLRA is crafted to allow employers to control your time at work, which they are paying for, so there's at least some sense to it. The NLRA is also crafted to specifically guarantee that employers cannot fire you for discussing wages with co-workers when you are not on the clock. So IIRC any policy that specifically prohibited you from engaging in discussions about your pay for example while you are on a break, in the break room, and permitted to socialize, or eg. while you are clocked out, not on company premises at all, ... those policies would be absolutely illegal.
Yeah, I worked for a European company until Brexit, then it was a UK company 😅 until it closed, around the first of this year.
It was amazing to hear all the European people with their expectations of some actual rights. While I spent weeks just trying to figure out how/even if I could still have any form of health and dental coverage.
We are a true bastion of freedom, aren't we...
>On the other hand, they can make a policy and enforce it that says "no non-work related conversation at work" and that's totally legal, and then you can be fired for discussing your wages while you are on the clock
They absolutely can not, wages are 100% in direct relation to work performed and so would fall under "work related"
Compensation, including wages, is what you get in exchange for....you guessed it folks, work. Making any discussion about compensation directly work related and covered under the policy you made up
The policy that OP posted would not allow the employer to prohibit discussion of wages at work. The only time an employer can prohibit discussions about wages at work is when all non-work conversations are prohibited. The employer policy above specifically says to keep discussions friendly and then lists things that employees are prohibited from discussing.
No political talk is a red flag for me because everything is political to someone. Also, every place I've been with this rule has actually meant "no political talk that disagrees with management"
Last week at work my coworkers were discussing the debate and how they plan on voting. I chimed in asking their thoughts on Project 2025. They had no idea what it was so I explained it before getting cut off by one of them because, “we shouldn’t discuss politics at work.”
You cannot be prohibited from sharing your salary with co-workers.
Edit: This is true in the United States. If you're not in the US, check your local laws.
I wish more people would realize this. They tell us to not talk about wages so they can keep their payroll low and not have to pay everyone a fair wage.
interviewed for a contractor, and he said if someone starts talking about wages then someone’s gotta go, that sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen..
That's the exact response you should have given him. "Ooh, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen. I can start immediately."
Of course you're not getting the job at that point, but the look on his face would have been worth it. And he might even have given you actual ammunition for a discrimination or retaliation lawsuit depending on what he said as he wrapped up the interview.
I believe there are some exceptions around contractors, because contractors are not technically employees. Definitely worth looking into greater detail.
As a contractor, if a client told me I couldn't speak any damned way I please I would tell them to pound sand. If I got fired, their ass would be explaining to the IRS why they classified me as a contractor and then tried to treat me as an employee.
lol, I’m a manager at a very large chain of casual dining restaurants… a few of my peers have expressed their disdain for team members discussing their wages. I remind every single one of them that it’s perfectly legal and they should be very careful to not discourage it.
They are all baffled when I bring it up. One even told me it was company policy and in the handbook. I calmly explained to him that this is illegal. It’s wild how commonly accepted it is that it’s just not allowed. The American working class is so fucked.
I had to tell this to a coworker who had been at the job for over a decade.
Like I made it clear you can choose not to talk about it, but a company telling you you can’t, is illegal.
I just joined the work group chat. Minimum wage in my state increased this month. There was a text from my manager repeating how our pay information is confidential and how she would be contacting us individually to discuss it.
Yes, it's really weird to me to see "no discriminating", an official workplace policy should be a lot more specific. Like, "we will not tolerate discrimination based on race, sex, ethnicity, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability or religion." Usually also something about sexual harassment, retaliation. Etc.... I expect a thorough outline and reminder of my legal protections. Otherwise... does that not matter to them?
As a lesbian, does "no politics" mean I can't be out in the workplace? Does "no discrimination" mean the company will back me up if someone is homophobic toward me, or does it mean they'll claim "religious rights" to fire me or retaliate against me if I have a pic of my girlfriend at my desk?
i mean i was talking about “Keep is safe”
but yeah i get what you’re saying. my point is that a document that’s this sloppy wouldn’t be included by a real company.
this is an informally worded sloppy joke. someone is playing at having a business.
No profanity? Perfectly reasonable request.
Can’t talk about salary? Illegal.
IF- We’re talking about the United States. People on this sub really need to clarify that point, it’s annoying having to qualify that statement every time.
I worked for a local cafe that was explicitly lgbt friendly and had a very diverse staff, but we were still asked to not talk about politics and religion while customers were around. the goal is to not alienate anyone.
Totally understand that and it makes sense. I'm talking about places that are completely ok with politics as long as they are conservative buy then try to say "no politics at work" when your shirt has a pride flag.
For reference, I live deep in Bible country, hence my frustration.
No politics I agree with
No foul language is subjective and I'd want to know what consists as foul
No discrimination is a hell yes from me
No talking about wages is a red flag. Talking about wages isn't something they can stop you from doing. Though the only consequences of breaking any of these is getting fired, and the last one would be a lawsuit
Edit: missed a word
Every place I've been that has said "no politics" really means "no politics that disagrees with the owner/ management. Also, basically everything is political.
Yeah, it CAN mean no politics at all or it CAN mean "Only discuss politics if you agree with the boss."
Given that they couldn't manage four rules without one of them being an illegal attempt to stifle discussion of wages, I'm going to bet it totally means the latter.
> No politics
\+
> No discrimination
Can equal, "All lives matter is fine, Black Lives Matter is political." It shouldn't, but the US has issues.
Or, SCOTUS recently ruled against affirmative action for being discriminatory.
They're not necessarily red flags, but they're not necessarily green either.
If you want to respond by telling me that I'm being paranoid... I hear you. I'm wondering about that myself. I've also seen these same positions lead to those same sorts of conclusions and really hate the general state of US society right now.
I agree with most of it as well. Cursing in a meeting or cursing out a colleague is one thing, random curse words with a colleague you know is different.
Being civil is a perfectly fine rule.
Everything seems legitimate because you desire a respectful, positive, non-antagonistic work environment in professional settings, with the only exception being when discussing wages and money. This is important because that's the primary reason for being there - work is for earning money and wages, which we need to be aware of. It's crucial to understand that this is not a charity foundation or a nonprofit group.
first one is fine
second one is standard unless you're not interacting with customers in which case... kinda odd
third is fine
fourth is alarm bell city
Politics, foul language and discrimination are all fine to be banned. Talking about your wage is not ok to ban, and in fact they can't, depending on your country. It's definitely not legal in the US (source: many threads in this forum)
The first three seem like great ways to maintain a civil workplace. All for them, more places should adopt them.
The fourth point is a violation of labor law and your rights. It is illegal to prevent people discussing their wages, as has come up a million times in this sub.
So that is one enormous red flag which would honestly be enough for me to take a pass.
Only the salary thing.
If an employer doesn’t want you to swear, or doesn’t want in fighting when you talk politics, or doesn’t want you being a homophobic twat, these seem reasonable to me.
Only issue is no talk about wages. That's illegal.
Everything else circled? That's fine. A workplace basically saying "No cursing, no politics, and no discrimination," is well within their rights to not want employees to talk about those subjects at work. One is being professional, one is not breaking laws, and one is avoiding a highly polarizing topic. Nothing wrong with that.
The first 3 I can kind of understand but as for the wages one, huge red flag, companies do that to try to get away with paying people more/less than others
Yea the salary one is a huge red flag. It’s against federal law to ban talking about wages. They don’t want you to talk about wages because they are screwing some people over and they don’t want them to know that
Almost everything here is fine. I say almost because discussing your wages is a legally protected right. [Know your rights](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages).
1) wish people didn’t talk politics with me at work
2) that’s fair, I guess, but I wouldn’t follow it if others didn’t care
3) yeah, obviously
4) well asking me to do that is a crime
They’re asking you to operate against your best interest on at least two points IF you’re acting in good faith toward the verbiage (they are assuming you are and they are taking advantage of that). No excusing this one.
Talking about wages is federally protected, no matter how "inappropriate" they think it might be.
I can understand not wanting drama though. The old rules of "polite conversation" were no sex, religion, or politics. That's why weather and sports and stuff are a thing, to give you a "safe" topic.
Do *not* report it to the Chamber of Commerce, a business lobby. Report it to your state or federal department of labor, or the office of the secretary of state.
Never give out personal information....
"Hi I am the new starter today, employee number 5175. I can't tell you my name as that is personal information".
On day one, openly discuss your wage with a coworker infront of management. If management warms you to stop, immediately go back to talking about wages. If they give any sort of punishment, sue them. Management cannot in any way, shape, or form stop you from discussing wages with your coworkers. You have a right to compare wages and that’s federally protected.
The first 3 points, as well as the part about leaving your drama at home, are perfect. In fact, they should be applied at every job.
But the talking about money, wages, and personal information part are a bit iffy. Plus, talking about wages is protected in the US.
Well under American federal law YOU CAN discuss wages amongst your coworkers and there’s NOTHING the company can do about it! If they try you can sue the hell out of the company
Report the company and the listing, as this is literally illegal in the U.S.
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
the "no talking about wages" thing is a red flag. number one, it's illegal, and number two, the only reason they say that is to take power away from the working class, and keep you in the dark as far as how bad they're screwing you
I WISH there was a no politics rule at my work. We get some very political, very angry people working here. I'm sick to death of hearing fox news talking points all day at work, and I'm not even in the US.
It's a rather problematic document that discusses your wage. It's illegal to force employees to remain silent about their wages, and such a policy is not enforceable.
If you were to be dismissed for discussing wages, that could constitute grounds for a lawsuit which you would likely win.
The other three criteria are not sufficiently concrete to be deemed a policy, as the definitions of political, foul language, and discrimination remain unclear.
Of course they don't want you talking about youar wages with the other employees. Some people would realize how bad they're getting screwed. They can't legally prevent you from discussing this infformation, but I'm sure they'll find some other reason to fire you.
#3 is reportable to the DOL. The others are a bit dated but not out of the ordinary. But they put in writing #3 while skipping over any reference to sexual harassment being against policy/the law which means they don’t know or don’t care about the laws. I’d say there are a few red flags, but it would be worth raising this to DOL so they get scrutinized for it. Wouldn’t work there….
They are all weird, but the last one is straight up illegal. Take the job, discuss wages, get retaliated for discussing wages. Document everything, especially this screenshot, get a contingency lawyer, and finally, Sue them
It is illegal for businesses to bar you from discussing pay, just keep that in mind. Sadly not uncommon for them to try and 'enforce' it, even though doing so is a federal crime.
Talk about salary. What are they gonna do? Fire you? You can, then, find an employment lawyer and only have a certain amount be paid when you win. Even if you don’t win, you don’t have to pay them and lawyers know this.
Employers like the one pictured above don’t have your back so why care.
The top 3 I think are more or less ok, I personally dont diaries politics at work, though I do swear alot so that one is ignored and I dont discriminate even though my work very much does. The 4th one is ilegal in most places. They added the personal info so it looks more legal... but the long and short is they dont want you discussing pay with coworkers. The rest is to disguise that so they can deny it is the really reason.
If a company tells me "no foul language" then I know I'm about to work for the most vanilla C U Next Tuesdays. They will be the most utterly rude people and any dissent will be considered anarchy.
I once had herd it said this way:
State your political favorite ad half the room will hate you and the other half will start hating the haters.
Start using foul language and all the descent and professional people will lose all respect for you. There has never been a professional conversation that requires any curse words to make a valid point.
Making a discriminating statement (Even as a joke) will cause riffs in the organization and once you get branded as a raciest, kiss your career goodby.
As for personal information, Your co-workers are your co-workers, not friends or family or partners or anything else. Keep professional business professional and private lives private.
Send this to the department of labor in that state. It will be taken care of in short order. Discussing wages is federally protected, at this point in time.
The red circle bits are likely fine, with a massive exception for talking about your wages. If you are in the US, they can't prevent you from talking about your wages.
Yeah, it is normal And yet, I ALWAYS find a way to talk about wages with my some of my co workers. They usually put that clause in to hide when someone in the same position is making more than another. Pisses me off. Find a way, get a fair pay
*huge typo!
MASSIVE red flag
These are already common (unreasonable) expectations in most workplaces but putting that on the application almost certainly means that management is extremely controlling and invasive
By the way “never talk about wages” is straight up illegal as a requirement of workers
Everything seems fine to me except for the bullet point about wages. Assuming you're in the US, discussion of wages is federally protected. Their policy does not trump federal law, even if you sign it. And if they retaliate or fire you for discussing wages, it's illegal.
I never knew this! Thank you
They will fire you for “unrelated” reasons though and good luck proving otherwise
This doc seems like a good start.
Evidence.docx saved to C:/
[удалено]
there is often not enough return on these cases that it's hard to find someone to take it.
That's retaliation and it is in fact the type of discrimination that has the highest likelihood of the victim being successful with their claim. In other words, out of all the claims of discrimination the EEOC receives, they only rule in favor of the claimant a percentage of the time and that percentage is highest with retaliation claims. And the reason why it's the most successful is that [the burden of proof is on the employer to prove it wasn't retaliation](https://www.mcafeetaft.com/retaliation-the-most-successful-discrimination-claim/). So if you have an employee that has been performing successfully and then they started receiving more scrutiny after they did some protected activity (like allege discrimination or report unsafe or unlawful activity) and then they were ultimately fired, that's a very easy retaliation case because the employer would have to prove that the employee didn't receive more scrutiny because of retaliation. And then a lot of managers don't really understand what constitutes discrimination based on retaliation in the same way they understand discrimination based on something like race or sex
Exactly what happened to me. They retaliated to the point where, though I was not fired, I had no choice but to resign for my own well-being. They rejected all of my multiple reasonable options I gave them for reasonable accommodation to continue employment with confirmed medical documentation because it was inconvenient for them. But only inconvenient because they had me doing two jobs since a person quit, and they didn’t want to lose the second job I never agreed to.
Idk how long ago that happened and if there's a statute of limitations for retaliation but that sounds like a strong case for retaliation or not providing reasonable accommodation, but you'd have to file through EEOC or consult with a lawyer (even if you can't afford a lawyer, many will do a free consultation and only take payment if you win). But yeah it sucks that they can kinda get away with it because many Americans don't know their rights. Even if you're well off now, might still be worth looking into to stop them from doing it in the future and to get some money for yourself. Fuck em
Thanks, I do know my rights, but unfortunately the statute of limitations of six months for filing a case with the EEOC has passed. I was originally going to, but life got in the way, and also, the definition proof/documentation, I stupidly had on my work email account. HR had tech support shut down my accounts literally as I was packing my stuff up. I’m talking, five minutes after I resigned. As I was actively attempting to get my emails and paystubs (only accessible on the work computer), each software program I entered was progressively locking me out. I suspect it was for the very reason of preventing access to things that would help me simply because I mentioned the word “legally.” It was very strange and humiliating, the way I was hovered over while leaving. I was told I was preforming way above average, and showed no indication that I would do anything crazy like sabotage (which a friend told me could motivate that sort of watchfulness when I told her how crazy it was the way they basically kicked me out) despite me behaving level headed. They are also a huge nationwide corporation with layers upon layers of HR and several in-company legal teams. So, they have access to highly payed lawyers that specifically are there to protect them? Me? I can’t even afford a lawyer at all, and as we know, the one with money in a legal case wins. America - Liberty and Justice only if you are rich.
The idea is if you file a wage claim and are subsequently fired, your shift or job duties or your assigned location change for the worse, it’s retaliation. DOL will have e a field day with them. If you bring it to court, any labor lawyer is going to make it hurt.
You kinda can. When you go home every day, write down what happened that day as best you can remember. I worked with someone who did this, and it really helped her. They were contemporaneous (?). She wrote down what happened every day, and it was a big help for her when management started their bs.
Yeah, agreed. One of the big reasons why stuff like this is difficult to prosecute is a lack of documentation. If you have a job where you have a work email, make sure to forward any relevant emails to your personal account, too.
I'd be talking about my wages in an email bcc'd to my personal email so fast.
Prohibiting it is proof enough.
THEY HAVE A PICTURE OF THE POLICY THAT THEY POSTED IN THIS POST. good luck proving otherwise, for fucks sakes people drive me nuts.
On the other hand, they can make a policy and enforce it that says "no non-work related conversation at work" and that's totally legal, and then you can be fired for discussing your wages while you are on the clock. Be careful with advice from strange people on the Internet, is all I'm saying, Pretty is absolutely right, did not say anything incorrect, your right to discuss your wages is firm, but employer can make reasonable time-and-place policies that would preclude you from doing it while at work. They cannot have a policy that blanket prevents you from sharing your wage information with other co-workers. They cannot specifically block discussions of wages, even during work hours, unless it's framed as a broad policy keeping you and your work-time communication on task. But they cannot prevent you from sharing information outside of work, as that would be a restriction prevented by the NLRA, it's your right to organize and that includes discussion of wages. [https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages)
wtf > Policies that specifically prohibit the discussion of wages are unlawful *as are policies that chill employees from discussing their wages*. and > You may have discussions about wages when not at work, when you are on break, and *even during work if employees are permitted to have other non-work conversations*. Seem contradictory... Like, no conversation, means no wage conversation, means chilling employees discussing wages. Maybe it's that it's not specifically chilling wage discussions? Also, it's kinda weird discussing wages for work isn't work conversation. Like, discussing career development, growth, and plans for the future at least can be work conversations, though certainly not all the time. Not that the US is any sort of exemplar for worker's rights.
>it's not specifically chilling wage discussions? That's exactly why. It's meant to not disallow policies which are specifically crafted to help workers stay on-task and to promote their productivity, this means they wouldn't be firing you for having a conversation about wages. They would be firing you for conversation that was off-topic and not essential to your job. Discussing career development, growth, and plans for the future can most certainly be work conversations, and the employer can insist that you reserve those discussions for the time and place (eg. "at your review.") The NLRA is crafted to allow employers to control your time at work, which they are paying for, so there's at least some sense to it. The NLRA is also crafted to specifically guarantee that employers cannot fire you for discussing wages with co-workers when you are not on the clock. So IIRC any policy that specifically prohibited you from engaging in discussions about your pay for example while you are on a break, in the break room, and permitted to socialize, or eg. while you are clocked out, not on company premises at all, ... those policies would be absolutely illegal.
I get the reasoning. I'm annoyed about US legal fuckery.
Yeah, I worked for a European company until Brexit, then it was a UK company 😅 until it closed, around the first of this year. It was amazing to hear all the European people with their expectations of some actual rights. While I spent weeks just trying to figure out how/even if I could still have any form of health and dental coverage. We are a true bastion of freedom, aren't we...
Such freedom. Much liberty.
>On the other hand, they can make a policy and enforce it that says "no non-work related conversation at work" and that's totally legal, and then you can be fired for discussing your wages while you are on the clock They absolutely can not, wages are 100% in direct relation to work performed and so would fall under "work related" Compensation, including wages, is what you get in exchange for....you guessed it folks, work. Making any discussion about compensation directly work related and covered under the policy you made up
The policy that OP posted would not allow the employer to prohibit discussion of wages at work. The only time an employer can prohibit discussions about wages at work is when all non-work conversations are prohibited. The employer policy above specifically says to keep discussions friendly and then lists things that employees are prohibited from discussing.
No political talk is a red flag for me because everything is political to someone. Also, every place I've been with this rule has actually meant "no political talk that disagrees with management"
So essentially anything pro-labor or leaning to the left
We got a ton of complaints at my last job about pronoun pins around the last election for being too political.
God, I am fucking *sick* of my very existence being "political."
That was my argument. We took them off until January
Last week at work my coworkers were discussing the debate and how they plan on voting. I chimed in asking their thoughts on Project 2025. They had no idea what it was so I explained it before getting cut off by one of them because, “we shouldn’t discuss politics at work.”
Federally protected *for now* Make sure to vote people
true, losing chevron means we are probably losing the ability to discuss wages pretty quickly.
Chevron was specifically about deferring to the experts on interpretation of vague policies. This is a *specific* policy, no interpretation needed.
And yet, I wouldn't put it past conservatives to claim that it IS a vague policy because consistency has never mattered with authoritarians.
They are all about bad faith arguments.
It’s amazing how few people know this, especially considering the NLRA has been law for nearly 90 years
You cannot be prohibited from sharing your salary with co-workers. Edit: This is true in the United States. If you're not in the US, check your local laws.
I wish more people would realize this. They tell us to not talk about wages so they can keep their payroll low and not have to pay everyone a fair wage.
interviewed for a contractor, and he said if someone starts talking about wages then someone’s gotta go, that sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen..
Well it is fully illegal to even imply that people cannot discuss wages on the federal level and most state levels too.
anyway i can report them? i know DOL but not sure where. 2 scummy guys who overwork and underpay in my field
DOL has a reporting form on their website [HERE.](https://webapps.dol.gov/contactwhd/Default.aspx)
That's the exact response you should have given him. "Ooh, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen. I can start immediately." Of course you're not getting the job at that point, but the look on his face would have been worth it. And he might even have given you actual ammunition for a discrimination or retaliation lawsuit depending on what he said as he wrapped up the interview.
i definitely should’ve, i knew as soon as he said that i wasn’t gonna work there
I believe there are some exceptions around contractors, because contractors are not technically employees. Definitely worth looking into greater detail.
As a contractor, if a client told me I couldn't speak any damned way I please I would tell them to pound sand. If I got fired, their ass would be explaining to the IRS why they classified me as a contractor and then tried to treat me as an employee.
well they are the contractor, but you (me) would be the employee for them
lol, I’m a manager at a very large chain of casual dining restaurants… a few of my peers have expressed their disdain for team members discussing their wages. I remind every single one of them that it’s perfectly legal and they should be very careful to not discourage it. They are all baffled when I bring it up. One even told me it was company policy and in the handbook. I calmly explained to him that this is illegal. It’s wild how commonly accepted it is that it’s just not allowed. The American working class is so fucked.
The NLRB would *love* to receive a copy of that policy and handbook, just sayin.
I had to tell this to a coworker who had been at the job for over a decade. Like I made it clear you can choose not to talk about it, but a company telling you you can’t, is illegal.
I just joined the work group chat. Minimum wage in my state increased this month. There was a text from my manager repeating how our pay information is confidential and how she would be contacting us individually to discuss it.
Well, if your pay is minimum wage, and the state just set a new minimum, then I guess your wage info is public information. :-D
Share early and often. Every person hired here needs to send this "policy" to the NLRB.
Yea. I think that’s the only one
Aside from that, though, the rest of the rules make sense.
the grammar and missed word substitutions are the red flag for me. this is an official work document and it’s a mess
Yes, it's really weird to me to see "no discriminating", an official workplace policy should be a lot more specific. Like, "we will not tolerate discrimination based on race, sex, ethnicity, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability or religion." Usually also something about sexual harassment, retaliation. Etc.... I expect a thorough outline and reminder of my legal protections. Otherwise... does that not matter to them? As a lesbian, does "no politics" mean I can't be out in the workplace? Does "no discrimination" mean the company will back me up if someone is homophobic toward me, or does it mean they'll claim "religious rights" to fire me or retaliate against me if I have a pic of my girlfriend at my desk?
i mean i was talking about “Keep is safe” but yeah i get what you’re saying. my point is that a document that’s this sloppy wouldn’t be included by a real company. this is an informally worded sloppy joke. someone is playing at having a business.
Yeah the "no politics" rule can get dicey if they decide something is political.
Discuss wages all you want. If they fire you for it file a lawsuit for unlawful termination.
I’m always transparent about how much I’m making with my coworkers we need collective knowledge to fuck back.
> we need collective knowledge to ***fuck*** back. That'll teach management for trying to screw us over!
"Fuck them all to death!"
No profanity? Perfectly reasonable request. Can’t talk about salary? Illegal. IF- We’re talking about the United States. People on this sub really need to clarify that point, it’s annoying having to qualify that statement every time.
Yep, if the mods won’t enforce it then all you can do is downvote and clarify.
yeah when an employer says “don’t talk about how much we’re paying you” they’re trying to get away with fucking somebody over
*Everyone
Usually when a work place says "no politics" it means they are perfectly ok with thin blue line t shirts but think LGBTQIA+ stuff should stay at home.
I worked for a local cafe that was explicitly lgbt friendly and had a very diverse staff, but we were still asked to not talk about politics and religion while customers were around. the goal is to not alienate anyone.
Totally understand that and it makes sense. I'm talking about places that are completely ok with politics as long as they are conservative buy then try to say "no politics at work" when your shirt has a pride flag. For reference, I live deep in Bible country, hence my frustration.
No politics I agree with No foul language is subjective and I'd want to know what consists as foul No discrimination is a hell yes from me No talking about wages is a red flag. Talking about wages isn't something they can stop you from doing. Though the only consequences of breaking any of these is getting fired, and the last one would be a lawsuit Edit: missed a word
People who say that always believe there’s “heterosexual and political”, “white and political”, “cis and political”.
"No talking about politics" rules almost *always* translate to "talk about politics all you want, as long as you're a Republican."
Every place I've been that has said "no politics" really means "no politics that disagrees with the owner/ management. Also, basically everything is political.
Yeah, it CAN mean no politics at all or it CAN mean "Only discuss politics if you agree with the boss." Given that they couldn't manage four rules without one of them being an illegal attempt to stifle discussion of wages, I'm going to bet it totally means the latter.
> No politics \+ > No discrimination Can equal, "All lives matter is fine, Black Lives Matter is political." It shouldn't, but the US has issues. Or, SCOTUS recently ruled against affirmative action for being discriminatory. They're not necessarily red flags, but they're not necessarily green either. If you want to respond by telling me that I'm being paranoid... I hear you. I'm wondering about that myself. I've also seen these same positions lead to those same sorts of conclusions and really hate the general state of US society right now.
I agree with most of it as well. Cursing in a meeting or cursing out a colleague is one thing, random curse words with a colleague you know is different. Being civil is a perfectly fine rule.
My boss tried this...we ignored it...now we all make the same...😉
Is this a banana stand?
No personal information? "What's your name, new guy?" "Per company policy I cannot tell you, and I will go to HR to report you if you share yours"
I think the first 3 are reasonable and I can see why a boss would ban them to keep people from fighting at work. 4 is illegal in the US though.
Everything seems legitimate because you desire a respectful, positive, non-antagonistic work environment in professional settings, with the only exception being when discussing wages and money. This is important because that's the primary reason for being there - work is for earning money and wages, which we need to be aware of. It's crucial to understand that this is not a charity foundation or a nonprofit group.
It's also illegal to prohibit or chill discussing wages.
first one is fine second one is standard unless you're not interacting with customers in which case... kinda odd third is fine fourth is alarm bell city
Politics, foul language and discrimination are all fine to be banned. Talking about your wage is not ok to ban, and in fact they can't, depending on your country. It's definitely not legal in the US (source: many threads in this forum)
The WHOLE page is a red flag tbh
It’s so nice when they put illegal things in writing for us, isn’t it?
The last one is fucking flat out illegal
If this is in the US you are federally protected (for now) to talk about your salary.
You can actually just send this document to the DOL and they'll get a citation.
The first three seem like great ways to maintain a civil workplace. All for them, more places should adopt them. The fourth point is a violation of labor law and your rights. It is illegal to prevent people discussing their wages, as has come up a million times in this sub. So that is one enormous red flag which would honestly be enough for me to take a pass.
Always discuss wages
They cannot stop you from talking about wages if you are in the US.
Yes. Any company that posts details without utilizing the Oxford comma will no doubt provide a terrible work environment.
"Never talk about wages" is a *parade* of red flags.
Only the salary thing. If an employer doesn’t want you to swear, or doesn’t want in fighting when you talk politics, or doesn’t want you being a homophobic twat, these seem reasonable to me.
That last one is straight up illegal
Only issue is no talk about wages. That's illegal. Everything else circled? That's fine. A workplace basically saying "No cursing, no politics, and no discrimination," is well within their rights to not want employees to talk about those subjects at work. One is being professional, one is not breaking laws, and one is avoiding a highly polarizing topic. Nothing wrong with that.
The last one is illegal if you're in the US. Good thing you have it in writing
I’m a fan of the no politics - causes so many arguments
Good in theory. In practice, I've usually seen it end up as no politics that disagrees with the boss.
First three are fine, the last one is a crime
The first 3 I think are fine, but number 4 is illegal in the US.
The last one is....technically they are attempting to police protected concerted activity. In the US that is a huge no-no with the NRLB
The first 3 I can kind of understand but as for the wages one, huge red flag, companies do that to try to get away with paying people more/less than others
Point four is
Fourth point is illegal so maybe a green flag as they will very likely give you a good opportunity to sue them.
This company has never had their policy book reviewed by a lawyer.
Yea the salary one is a huge red flag. It’s against federal law to ban talking about wages. They don’t want you to talk about wages because they are screwing some people over and they don’t want them to know that
Almost everything here is fine. I say almost because discussing your wages is a legally protected right. [Know your rights](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages).
That wages part is a payday. Get hired, talk about wages, get fired and document it = lawsuit 😂
1) wish people didn’t talk politics with me at work 2) that’s fair, I guess, but I wouldn’t follow it if others didn’t care 3) yeah, obviously 4) well asking me to do that is a crime They’re asking you to operate against your best interest on at least two points IF you’re acting in good faith toward the verbiage (they are assuming you are and they are taking advantage of that). No excusing this one.
Talking about wages is federally protected, no matter how "inappropriate" they think it might be. I can understand not wanting drama though. The old rules of "polite conversation" were no sex, religion, or politics. That's why weather and sports and stuff are a thing, to give you a "safe" topic.
That last one is illegal they can't tell you that
The last one is breaking the law. Report it to the chamber of commerce.
Do *not* report it to the Chamber of Commerce, a business lobby. Report it to your state or federal department of labor, or the office of the secretary of state.
First 3 aren't a red flag. 4th bullet is a red flag and is also illegal in the US.
Never give out personal information.... "Hi I am the new starter today, employee number 5175. I can't tell you my name as that is personal information".
On day one, openly discuss your wage with a coworker infront of management. If management warms you to stop, immediately go back to talking about wages. If they give any sort of punishment, sue them. Management cannot in any way, shape, or form stop you from discussing wages with your coworkers. You have a right to compare wages and that’s federally protected.
That last part is illegal. You are free to discuss wages per federal labor laws.
Number 4 is illegal
The first 3 points, as well as the part about leaving your drama at home, are perfect. In fact, they should be applied at every job. But the talking about money, wages, and personal information part are a bit iffy. Plus, talking about wages is protected in the US.
Well that 4th bullet point is straight up illegal so
I would take this job just to discuss wages.
The last one is illegal.
Yes. That last rule is illegal. Get the job, talk about it, make them put in writing, sue. Infinite money glitch
Well under American federal law YOU CAN discuss wages amongst your coworkers and there’s NOTHING the company can do about it! If they try you can sue the hell out of the company
They can’t stop you from talking about wages
Report the company and the listing, as this is literally illegal in the U.S. https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
the "no talking about wages" thing is a red flag. number one, it's illegal, and number two, the only reason they say that is to take power away from the working class, and keep you in the dark as far as how bad they're screwing you
The last one is.
Work there as long as you need to, actively jobhunt while you're there, report this policy to the DoL on your way out.
4th bullet point is illegal in the US, 2nd and 3rd sound good to me, but 1st is usually a telltale for "we only do conservative politics here"
Only the wage one. The others are common sense.
I find no politics to be a red flag because, in reality, I've seen it mean no politics for anyone except the boss.
I WISH there was a no politics rule at my work. We get some very political, very angry people working here. I'm sick to death of hearing fox news talking points all day at work, and I'm not even in the US.
Yeah, a "no politics" rule most often means "no politics ownership/management disagree with."
That last one is illegal
The only red flag is the last one
It's a rather problematic document that discusses your wage. It's illegal to force employees to remain silent about their wages, and such a policy is not enforceable. If you were to be dismissed for discussing wages, that could constitute grounds for a lawsuit which you would likely win. The other three criteria are not sufficiently concrete to be deemed a policy, as the definitions of political, foul language, and discrimination remain unclear.
Of course they don't want you talking about youar wages with the other employees. Some people would realize how bad they're getting screwed. They can't legally prevent you from discussing this infformation, but I'm sure they'll find some other reason to fire you.
The first 3 are not concerning but the last one definitely is, unless they are specifically talking about while in the clock, then it’s all fine.
First three are great, last one is a nono.
The first three actually sound nice. The fourth is illegal
Just the last one.
#3 is reportable to the DOL. The others are a bit dated but not out of the ordinary. But they put in writing #3 while skipping over any reference to sexual harassment being against policy/the law which means they don’t know or don’t care about the laws. I’d say there are a few red flags, but it would be worth raising this to DOL so they get scrutinized for it. Wouldn’t work there….
Do you mean number 4?
Just the last line about sharing your pay
The last one definitely is.
They are all weird, but the last one is straight up illegal. Take the job, discuss wages, get retaliated for discussing wages. Document everything, especially this screenshot, get a contingency lawyer, and finally, Sue them
It is illegal for businesses to bar you from discussing pay, just keep that in mind. Sadly not uncommon for them to try and 'enforce' it, even though doing so is a federal crime.
What is this personal information rule? Are you going to call each other Mr. Pink and Mr. White?
That 4th rule is a red flag.
They are illegal. And they put it in writing. Send this to the NLRB
Yeah, not wanting you to talk about money is a big red flag.
first 3 are fine. it's number 4 that's the problem
Yes, violating the law in writing is a red flag.
If this is in America they are in violation of labor law and you have written proof they are forbidding discussing wages as a company policy.
Talk about salary. What are they gonna do? Fire you? You can, then, find an employment lawyer and only have a certain amount be paid when you win. Even if you don’t win, you don’t have to pay them and lawyers know this. Employers like the one pictured above don’t have your back so why care.
I wouldn’t even bother applying to the job. My dude you have better chances being the janitor at Chernobyl than working for that shithole of a company
3 out of the 4 are fine one is highly illegal so yeah red flag
Seems like common sense until you realize it’s just a way for them to sneak in a comment on conversations about pay
4h one is illegal. 2nd one: 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The top 3 I think are more or less ok, I personally dont diaries politics at work, though I do swear alot so that one is ignored and I dont discriminate even though my work very much does. The 4th one is ilegal in most places. They added the personal info so it looks more legal... but the long and short is they dont want you discussing pay with coworkers. The rest is to disguise that so they can deny it is the really reason.
The above lines with “I promise you” seems unprofessionally written lol
Ehhhh the first 2 are yellow flags, 3rd one is fine, 4th one is illegal.
If you’re in the US, the 4th one is illegal.
If a company tells me "no foul language" then I know I'm about to work for the most vanilla C U Next Tuesdays. They will be the most utterly rude people and any dissent will be considered anarchy.
Illegal
Fuck trump and me making minimum wage, guess I'm out
Remember, your employer will always be politically active and so should you. Also, how do they define political?
That is an immediate no
Only the bottom one.
The final one is illegal, report them
1. Fair 2. Kind of ridiculous, but ok 3. Fair 4. *Illegal* 4a. The personal info bit is probably more a safety measure for staff.
Number 4 is illegal.
yes???? not speaking about wages being a rule is against the law in US
First 3 are fine; the last one is illegal.
That is a far right employer
The first three are fine, but the fourth? Biggest red flag possible.
I once had herd it said this way: State your political favorite ad half the room will hate you and the other half will start hating the haters. Start using foul language and all the descent and professional people will lose all respect for you. There has never been a professional conversation that requires any curse words to make a valid point. Making a discriminating statement (Even as a joke) will cause riffs in the organization and once you get branded as a raciest, kiss your career goodby. As for personal information, Your co-workers are your co-workers, not friends or family or partners or anything else. Keep professional business professional and private lives private.
That last one is illegal.
First three are fine. Four is illegal.
- Red flag - not a big deal - fine - huge red flag
Only the last one. And that last one casts a sketchy pall over the first 3. So yeah.
discussing wages is a right for every american
Send this to the department of labor in that state. It will be taken care of in short order. Discussing wages is federally protected, at this point in time.
These seen very reasonable expectations for the workplace to me, with the glaring exception of the wage part
The red circle bits are likely fine, with a massive exception for talking about your wages. If you are in the US, they can't prevent you from talking about your wages.
Always talk about wages the rest makes total sense
Yeah, it is normal And yet, I ALWAYS find a way to talk about wages with my some of my co workers. They usually put that clause in to hide when someone in the same position is making more than another. Pisses me off. Find a way, get a fair pay *huge typo!
MASSIVE red flag These are already common (unreasonable) expectations in most workplaces but putting that on the application almost certainly means that management is extremely controlling and invasive By the way “never talk about wages” is straight up illegal as a requirement of workers
Fuck that shit
All is good accept for the part about wages and personal information
Other than discussing wages, all are pretty standard.
No, no, no, yes.
The only red flag is the pay one. It's federally protected in the US.
Well, the third one is illegal, so... yeah.
Looks like some roadside coffee place. Or Dutch Bros. which is just an overblown roadside coffee place.