# Message to all users:
This is a reminder to please read and follow:
* [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules)
* [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439)
* [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy)
When posting and commenting.
---
Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`.
* Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit.
* Do not harass or annoy others in any way.
* Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit.
---
You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way.
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So many people have recommended that movie to me, even complete strangers. It's like every time I leave the house, they keep shouting at me:
"Watch It!"
"Why don't you watch It?!"
"HEY, BUDDY, YOU BETTER WATCH IT!!!"
It's nearly enough to cause me to have an accident.
I tend to keep a distance. Last year had a woman who I was never interested in, would never be interested in nor ever gave any indication other than just friendliness as I was new spread rumors that we were seeing each other and more, had someone ask if I was gay because I kept rejecting any advances and in general caused a mess. Also note, she’s my mother’s age. Way too old to be acting like that. I was just new in town trying to make friends. I heard about all the rumors from other people.
I was extremely uncomfortable at work for a very long time. Still am to a degree.
That was the moment I stopped trying to be friends with women at work. Never again. I say hello and go about my day
>...had someone ask if I was gay because I kept rejecting any advances and in general caused a mess.
Whoever said that to you is part of the wider problem.
Correct, that’s why rather than just being distant from the older lady I stay away form all of them. I caught a lot more rumors and comments later. It’s a very toxic environment which is why I deal with it with a blanket solution. It’s in the best interest for my career to be completely and strictly about work and that’s it.
You have to remember that HR is always going to be staffed by the most loyal corporate sycophants possible. They are going to take the path of least resistance when it comes to resolving a situation, and that could very well mean firing the person bringing up the issue for "unrelated reasons" or just ignoring it.
They do not care about you; they care about the position their loyalty to the company affords them. I am definitely not saying don't ever talk to HR, just make sure you have good evidence in case they retaliate. Use them as a tool, because you can never trust them as people.
Fuuuuck! I made friends with a woman at my skydiving club, okay! So! She was hitting it off with this Skydiver, and they exchanged numbers. Then she got like... insecure confiding in me saying he hasn't called, and she doesn't know how to feel about him, blah blah. He brought a date to the club once, we dissected and discussed that, her relationship preferences, the whole shebang.
So I found out he's basically solo poly. When I told her this her response was "Oh yeah! He made sure I knew".
... Soo like ... what was all the fucking insecurity about if he was upfront..
She did this with another guy where they slept together, and then he ghosted her, but then a week later he was back, and then gone again, and like.... I've been abused.. So I start getting anxious this dude is fucking with her, and hit my boiling point, and send some stupid fucking message about like sorry if I'm over stepping, but you should read up on trauma bonding blah blah.
Once again her response was "Oh no! He's been upfront, he has hernia and needs surgery and shit".
So once again it's like... what the fuck.
I have two other juicy stories about different women, one ends with a dude moving to South America 🤣 but I gtg. Stay safe men.
I'm there to work. I won't avoid a woman in the workplace, especially if they're a coworker in need of assistance, but I don't carry my personal life into the workplace. I like keeping my personal and professional lives separated. But thats just me.
This concept baffles people, lol. The idea that I'm solely here to do my due diligence and not gossip and laze around seems to be a hard pill to swallow😃
I won’t actively avoid women at work but I will actively avoid any woman who appears to be interested in me.
Looks happen in the workplace, it usually becomes obvious who could be a problem quickly. I avoid these women because I have had problems with women bothering me in the past
Avoid eye contact? Sexist discrimination. Straight to HR with you.
And for eye contact to happen, both parties must be doing the same thing. Which means only one is guilty (guess which).
You can always get sent to HR for not talking to a woman. Because my refusal to have a conversation with her about her suicidal feelings made her uncomfortable.
The general work place especially blue collar is so anti harassment that you can’t even talk to them anymore without worrying your career is about to be over
During orientation at this new job I had. They told me harassment is defined by the accuser or individual feeling harassed, and that the company has a zero tolerance policy for harassment. So basically you'll likely be fired on the spot if someone accused you of harassment and they define what harassment is. Just easier to keep it moving.
The training about sexual harassment literally states, "intent doesn't matter." Meaning if you smile and say good morning, and someone reports it as creepy, you lose your job.
If you work in a very competitive or cutthroat field, your coworkers can have every motivation to take you out already. This is too convenient of a means.
The problem is that anyone can say anything at any time, and it can cost you your livelihood and ability to be hired anywhere. I understand the intention behind the rules and condemn the atrocious acts of some men in the workplace... that being said, i believe in evidence based justice, and I don't make a habit of dancing around land mines.
I've taken the "harassment" training many times and can confirm. It is literally anything that makes the other person uncomfortable.
I just plainly avoid the women other than the necessary interaction, which actually has the opposite effect on them.
Yes. Those are the exact words.
You can read the... other perspective... if you Google intent vs. Impact. This kind of thinking has spread throughout corporate America in the last decade or so.
I mean, you're on reddit. You have to have seen this game in action before.
It's absolutely designed that way, by people like that, for exactly that purpose. At least in my opinion.
I work in tech, I can 100% confirm that it says that
1. Intent doesn’t matter, the receiver gets to decide
2. Women are always seen as the victims. The sexual harassment training doesn’t even acknowledge that men can be victims.
Tell whoever is running the session you think men can be victims too. You'll be holding a box of your belongings and being escorted to your car by security within the hour.
I’m a guy. I’ve had a girl at work pass a note to me asking me to f*ck her. I politely told her I won’t with coworkers. She asked again a couple weeks later and I have her the same response and it ended there. Not that I would want any added attention, but imagine I went to the manager with that story, I’d probably be the one who’d get fired smh
Remote work definitely makes it easier. Kind of amazing how the corpos found a way to use social justice to squeeze productivity out of people even harder.
Yes. The language is similar about DEI and racial sensitivity training in modern American corporate culture as well. The meetings are often racially segregated too.
We've taken a page from the USSR, and the CCP apparently. We are evolving, just backward.
It used to be really nice, some of it still is.
From what I hear, no place is doing particularly well right now.
I just keep hoping we are all going to wake up and dump the wokeness. I think the companies like it though, because it gives them an iron clad reason to fire anybody they want at any time, without getting sued.
>The training about sexual harassment literally states, "intent doesn't matter." Meaning if you smile and say good morning, and someone reports it as creepy, you lose your job.
Perfect example of how society has pedestalized women way too much. They aren't allowed to be socially uncomfortable by the slightest bit. So if a woman has social anxiety, we can't acknowledge that. It's simply a man's fault if she's uncomfortable. Absolutely ridiculous lol.
Yeah, I really don't want to go there with this argument. I absolutely believe that all of this stuff can be laid directly at the feet of identity politics at large.
I don't, however, believe that anything positive will be achieved by widening the devide between men and women. That's really just buying into the same kind of garbage philosophy.
Well, I don't think problems can be solved by using the same kind of thinking that created them, and personally I would desperately like to walk this stuff back.
It's trashing the quality of life of everyone involved.
I feel very uncomfortable around women, I often feel like I am a bother to them given my own experiences and many of the sentiments expressed by women today. I feel unwanted and like persona non grata.
The anxiety and insecurity gets the best of me, so I make it a point to keep my interactions with them to absolute bare minumum. My line of work makes that a little diffucult, which contributes to my dissatifaction with my career.
I don't avoid women completely, but I avoid them alone until I trust them. I've been sexually harassed, and downright sexually assaulted by females too many times over the years. I'm a happily married man, and don't need or want those problems. And even with evidence, as a man, you're rarely believed or helped. I went to HR once about a co-worker who was sending me nudes, and the response I got was " who do you think courts will believe, you or the young pretty girl?". I had the texts on my phone, and they did nothing.
Some women will do things to men that absolutely wouldn't be tolerated if a man did it to a woman, and as a man it's tough to do anything more than avoid them.
As a man, I don't blame you. I've seen how disgusting some men can be as well. I don't care to associate with people of either sex that can't be respectful.
The problem is that in modern workplaces the burden is on the accused, not the accuser to prove wrongdoing, and the only evidenced the accuser needs to present to HR is that they (the accuser) was offended. The intent of the accuser, the context of the situation, none of it matters. It doesn’t even matter if it was a conversation that the accuser wasn’t even apart of and only overheard part of with no context.
And to make things worse you know damn well that not everyone’s feelings will be treated as equal by HR. A woman who heard two male coworkers telling a dirty joke will be taken seriously. A woman grabbing a man’s crotch and threatening to fire him if he doesn’t fuck her will be shrugged off. Deny it all you like ladies, but that’s the implication of the rhetoric spewed towards men. That might not have been your intent, but when you go years calling men evil and privileged and rapists you don’t sympathize with them when they are the one being wronged.
Hence, men avoid you at work. And we don’t try to ask you out anymore. And we don’t hold doors open or offer to give up our seats on the bus, or be chivalrous in any way. You wanted to live your whole life without men because you said we were all evil toxic rapists. Wish granted. We left you alone and now you’re realizing you don’t like it. You are starting to realize men did a lot more good in your life than bad, but you don’t want to admit you were wrong so you make questions like this. You made that bed. Sleep in it.
For example, if a man approaches a woman in a non-sexual way at work, a woman can complain to management that he made her feel "uncomfortable". And management tends to always side with the woman and the man loses his job.
I don’t go out of my way to talk to female coworkers partly for this reason. The awkwardness and potential consequences are not worth whatever I would get out of it.
So can a man. Jesus Christ. What is happening on the internet? I work in a very historically male dominant industry, if people had this attitude I couldn’t do my job.
Oh you have the same thing growing too, even if it’s not yet as large as in most English speaking countries. It’s just a matter of which particular bubble or work environment you’re in.
Yep training taught me it doesn’t matter what it is a woman can bring it to hr and land you in trouble. I’ve seen women do it as well so unless I have to talk to you I’m not having anything to do with you
I just go to work. I'm an electrician. There are two female electricians in my area that I know of and they co-own the same small residential electric business.
I can easily understand why they aren't working with we men too.
I was friends with a female co-worker who literally detailed why she hated all of her female colleagues and how she felt the last couple of male colleagues she worked with were creeps. I slowly disengaged contact over time as I felt like any word she disagreed with that I would have uttered would lead to some kind of HR case, I don't want the drama I am here to work. Thank you
I don't avoid them, there's 3 I interact with on a daily basis and others I'm around from time to time. It doesn't bother me, but I'm just there for work, nothing else.
It’s mutual. I’ve seen women cross the street or take the elevator instead of stairs to avoid me (like they’ll be walking one direction, notice me, stop, make a 90/180/270 degree turn). I think i just look criminal/intimidating
I'm 44 and poor in a poor area. Single women my age are almost always looking for someone to support them and their kids. I don't make enough to do that
i've seen women getting offendedn by "hello ladies" or "you look great today" and complaining to hr because of that.
and many men don't want to put up with that anymore, getting into trouble for something so harmless isn't worth it. so some prefer not to talk to them at all anymore and rather avoid them.
imo that's a overreaction from both sides, but since men are the ones getting in trouble, I can kinda understand the ones who choose this path.
I've been equally friendly with female and male coworkers throughout a more than 15 year tech career in very progressive areas of the US. Never had to worry about anything related to #MeToo.
Make your coworkers like you by being helpful, supportive, indispensable at your job, and not creepy - you won't need to worry about false accusations, and people will be on your side if one is made.
I think a lot of the people responding here already have severe social anxiety, and assume extremist takes online represent society more than they do.
That said, it might depend on where people live and work. The ultra-radical and identity-obsessed nutjobs do exist in real life too - it’s just that they’re concentrated in certain industries and places: academia, certain arts, more ‘Bohemian’ parts of certain cities, etc. Specific companies even in tech lean far more heavily into this than others.
I’ve been around both even recently, and if I had only been in jobs like my current one I’d think it was overblown as well and never interact with this crap at all. But some environnements really are toxically anti-male etc. in the way described.
Trick is not to join such a work environment and keep the crazies away.
>Make your coworkers like you by being helpful, supportive, indispensable at your job, and not creepy - you won't need to worry about false accusations,
That last part isn't true in some situations.
There are always exceptions. But if you're widely liked, you're not an easy target, and some asshole looking to make a false accusation will usually make it against an easy target.
I have a female colleague whom I'm in good terms with but it wasn't the case a year ago when she didn't talk to me out of spite for 2 months.
Now I always feel like I'm walking on eggshells when I'm talking with her because she's easily get offended by everything.
Risk of being canceled not worth benefit of a another work buddy.
I have work buddies who are female but took a bit to know they were cool, before moved on to joking around.
Sorry, married, kids, bald where male, easy target, and I like my job.
I'm avoiding women in general (except my friends). Always have the feeling that I'm not welcome in their presence and I'm really glad I have a fully remote job
I used to be really social at work. I would get a lot of people together after the office to hang out. 5 years ago, I had a woman ask me out on a date at work. I politely declined because I had a girlfriend.
She reported me to HR claiming I sexually harassed her and was selling drugs out of my desk. It took a 2 month investigation, my desk being searched, all my emails and files on my computer reviewed and HR interviewing many other employees for them to finally clear my name. They were ready to fire me on the spot but thankfully I happen to know a few female executives that went to bat for me. This same woman did this to another guy a few months later and they finally realized what was going on and parted ways with her.
I had always really tried to be the outgoing guy that brought everyone together and was always very openly supportive of an anyone. I loved setting up company events both official and non official. I liked volunteering a lot. But being falsely accused of that killed me. Ever since then, unless someone is on my direct team, I will not acknowledge their existence, male or female. No eye contact, no passing nod, I don't want to know your name or remember your face, I don't want to hear about what you do or your fucking gold fish. I eat lunch in my car alone, I will not go to any non-mandatory company social events, I leave the mandatory events the second I am able to. I've had other women at work approach me since then (women I'd date outside of work in a heartbeat too), a lot of people invite me out to places/events. I am as cold and standoffish as possible so they never ask or approach me again. Even with my direct team members, I will not talk to them about my outside life other than the necessary details.
I damn near lost my career and my entire life over something I did not do. I will never intentionally form a single friendship or relationship in the workplace ever again. I will never be active in the workplace in anyway outside of my professional duties ever again. If there was a way I could make my personal and professional life even further apart, I would.
So yeah. Don't falsely accuse people of shit. I don't give a fuck about a movement or anything outside of my own situation. I get my work done effectively and I'm very productive with my team which is mostly women. It's the social aspect outside of the necessary professional conduct I will not engage in.
The title has a presupposition. The question implies you are genuinely certain men are actively avoiding women and that they are here.
You're really looking to vent the frustration from your end but in this hidden fashion for people to say it for you.
Not every woman at work is a weirdo. I promise. Men can be weirdos too.
I don't think I actively avoid them. That being said I'm really not worried about the woman I work with directly but rather the miserable older lady that likes to spite report any man that speaks to the woman at the store I work at. Just really not worth catching a stray because she is getting divorced.
I think a lot of men are just afraid of making women uncomfortable. All the friends I made at work are women, but honestly? It's not that big of a deal. At the end of the day, it's just another human being.
It's standard practice to avoid baseless accusations or speculation.
Yes, it probably hurts women, but tough shit. Standard sexual harassment training literally says that your intent in interactions does not matter, so any woman can hit you with some bullshit any time they want to.
Surely you’re not suggesting that any woman ever would say something inconsistent and misrepresent events hyperbolically based purely on how she felt about a man? There is literally not a single woman I have ever met who is like this, it is unheard of. Believe them all, always.
Yep, this is why I never drive my car. Too many bad, drunk drivers out there. Standard practice for me to avoid those risks.
I also never walk anywhere either. Those drunk drivers take out plenty of pedestrians, too. Gotta always avoid those risks.
I don’t even leave my room at all. Too many crazy people. Any one of them could be a murderer. Standard practice to avoid all contact with other living beings if possible.
You realize that this is basically how y’all sound to a normal person, right?
I don’t think avoiding women is the answer….
Treat all coworkers… nah, hold up, all people you aren’t romantically involved with, with respect and earnest friendliness. Understand and uphold boundaries. Don’t give them any legitimate reason to have anything to say. No suggestive jokes, no questionable touches, no attention more than you’d give a male acquaintance/coworker. For an added layer of security, don’t be alone in a room with a woman unless you have a high level of rapport and trust with her.
IMO, avoiding women is the behavior of someone with a guilty conscience.
Correct, and so the only thing you can control in those situations is your own behavior. If your own conduct is squeaky clean, nothing will come out of false claims, which really aren’t very common anyway.
Avoiding all women out of fear of being MeToo’d is incel logic
It's not all women, it's women in the workplace and it's based on the ruleset set by whoever.
If we can be accused of anything at anytime and it's basically assumed to be true, the best course of action if you value yourself is to avoid them whenever possible.
I work in the call centre with 93% women. I don’t need the hassles or the drama. I just go in. I keep my head down. I do my job and I talk to all my coworkers professionally. They don’t know anything about my personal life unless I tell them and I never do. It’s just easier that way.
"Stories" huh?... Where do *you* work where this is a thing? In my working experience (1990's till present) it's always been the other way around where I've witnessed my male peers turn into creeps and weirdos if a woman so much as smiles at them.
I work in a building that is predominantly women. Many of them are my friends. Been there 20 years and I have no fear of talking with them or even *gasp* joke around. The reason that I can do all of this is because I don't try to fuck them all or be a creepy asshole!! Guess what?! It works!
The bullshit lawsuits and false accusations that they can stir up for the fun of it is enough to ruin a man’s life. There are way too many women that want to screw a man out of everything just so she can feel powerful.
I never heard that. Before Me Too, I already live in a country with strict laws where touching a woman anywhere non consensually, including shoulders and elbow is a jailable offense and also saying anything thar cause women to feel uncomfortable is also a jailable offense.
But I never met a man who avoids women because it's not that difficult to keep your hands to yourself and not say offensive things.
After all in a work environment if you do not even possess the bare minimum of basic people skills, and know what is appropriate or inappropriate to say, your boss might fire you for that anyway. As it's not just the women getting offended, your male boss will get offended too.
Singapore and it's heavily enforced. That's why it's one of the most pleasant country for women to be in. No wolf whistling, you walk around in peace and be alone even at 3am at night and nothing happens. Men are well behaved.
We did get dumb tourists who get too handsy in clubs with women and they find out the hard way what happens. There are undercover cops in clubs.
That's pretty much the main reason. I work with a lot of meatheads and a pretty good number of them are uncivilized enough that they would make a pass at a hole in a wall if you stuck balloons to it for boobs. I'd rather not be associated with that "just in case"
The more minor reason is that they tend to ask me for a lot of help when they get comfortable.
Because it's easy for a man to get in trouble. A woman even accuses a man at looking at her in a manner she feels uncomfortable, then we have a sexual misconduct case on our hands. Extremely hard for a man to prove his innocence in cases like thus. So it's easier to just avoid them at this point. If you not there, your name can't call eh
Because it has become and absolutely hostile world against adult men. If you look at them you are a predator or racist. If you talk to them you have invaded their space and you are a predator and racist. Or you are some form of hater, homophone, boomer or some other S they want to level at you. Let them get IVF to reproduce and live with their cats forever. F them as a species.
Working in an office is like a school of sharks circling. There is no problem unless one shows weakness, then there is blood in the water and a frenzy ensues. Never share anything personal, private, unprofessional in an office. This is why I prevent being romantic and friends with coworkers.
I have travel to HQ for work quaterly we havev5 approved hotels. Well I'm loyal to Hilton. It's also the furthest trip from airport and its furthest from HQ.
I'm a very social person. But I don't want any woman at my job. In a hotel where I'm staying. Asking to share an Uber seeing her in the lobby and asking if she wants subway. All ways I could be fired.
Someone told me several women in our department like to sit in one hotel lobby and see who cones in drunk. I like my work situation ill keep to myself.
Had a girl hardcore flirting with me at work. Took me about 2 weeks to work up the courage to ask her to go to lunch. She initially said yes. Then about 30 minutes before our "work date" I guess she told her supervisor she couldn't eat with him because she had plans with me. Something happened in that conversation and I was immediately made out to be a bad guy/player of the office. I was new and had never asked out a coworker before. Will never try to hook up at work again.
There is a natural tension in the work environment, a subtext of stress. The tension creates presence, awareness, and confidence. Everyone shows up to work, clean and looking nice. As a man, it's attractive to see the serious and successful side of a woman, and vice versa. It's natural. That doesn't mean we behave like animals (at least, most of us), but it does create tension. The kind that can be misinterpreted, either way. I'm not some sort of catch, but I've been hit on everywhere I've worked. In my early 20s, I went with it and had a long serious relationship with a coworker.. and I'd never do it again, but you can't help feeling a certain way. You can hide it, control what you do, and what you say, but it doesn't mean you won't be uncomfortable.
It goes both ways. If I'm getting hit on and I don't want to be, I don't have something to say to make it stop. "I don't like you flirting with me" could be twisted, either way.
As a guy, it's best we just avoid close and meaningful friendships with our female coworkers. It is better to keep it as colleagues and acquaintances where we only talk about work. Anything too far is then easily identified, and everyone is happy.
Work is work, I'm not always serious but I realise the only reason I'm at the places I'm at is because I am paid to be there. If people wanna start talking about relationships or try give me unsolicited relationship advice, I just tell them I'm just here to work. I'll be friendly because that's how you keep customers, and wholesalers, well no one needs awkward encounters with wholesalers,
I can't as we share too many laughs together. But that's largely because they're not the fragile egotistical heading that (bowel) movement. They'd also not stand for that shit in the first place because they've got strong characters.
I coukd see for young men that egg shells coukd be the carpeted arrangements for some spaces where being a man would class you as second or third class and would be out of there smartly shoukd any whiff come about.
I can't speak for others but I've found a comfortable middle ground with it after several incidents.
I am married, and wear a ring, so honestly I get kinda pissed off, but hey, it's a whole new world, some people are poly or have open relationships or whatever.
Basically I treat them like I treat anyone. Unless they initiate something inappropriate. So, I am friendly, and engaged and all that.
But as soon as the "Hey, I think your cute." or "Wow, you have really broad shoulders!" comes out, I just ignore them until they get the point.
Like, I will just stand there, not look at them, and not talk.
Just leave it hanging.
99% of the time this gets the point across and they say something like "Oh, sorry, that was inappropriate." or "Oh, I didn't see the ring, sorry!".
The 1% it doesn't I just continue ignoring their advance and change the subject or continue training them or whatever.
Then I go home and laugh about it with my wife. I tell her because she also works where I do, and chances are the person hitting on me knows this, and that I am married.
I feel like if they took that shot at our marriage she deserves to know about it.
I avoid interacting with women at the office other than seating across the table or with proper distance. Only make eye contact and look away when they stand up or walk in front of me.
I'm in a leadership position and any issue could cause a lot of trouble.
We have an assistant my partner and I. Today she came into my office for my signature and was standing very close to the desk with tight jeans that forced a camel toe. I just turned around.
I've heard this about major industries. Every now and then a woman gets a promotion and a dude gets fired because of a lie. This 'believe all woman' shit has gone too far. I know two different people who have had their life ruined because of some physo chick saying some bullshit to the police. OP, if you're a woman, feel free to downvote because 'obviously this commenter is a man and woman literally can't lie and therefore this guy doesn't know what he's talking about'
Had this job about ten years back before MeToo, but eh.
Me, 25 at the time, and another guy who I'll call Jeff (60ish yo) were the only guys who worked in this retail store. All the other employees were 16-18 year old girls and two 40ish yo women.
Jeff, it turned out, like to harrass the girls when he was the only guy in the store. Store policy was that there had to be at least 2 people in the store at all times, so when I would get off at 2pm or 3pm, he'd start harrassing them by 5pm. None of them ever wanted to report it to HR, because we didn't really have an HR person. I had come back in the store one day to hear him asking the 17 year old cashier, "oh? You like the beach? You wear thong bikinis?"
Cue me reporting him to the district manager, who ***refused*** to take action. Patricia, not her real name, just said that, "he just needs to be told not to talk like that in the workplace," and tore up the write-up that I had penned directly in front of my face.
He was finally fired for refusing to clean, stock, and mop the bathrooms in the evenings despite his job title being custodian/janitor.
I was reported because one of the cashiers began talking one day about getting a breast reduction for her 18th birthday while we were closing the store. I was busy counting the register tills while she was mopping, asking if her request for a week off had been approved. I told her it had then said, in passing, "hey, look at the bright side. You're back is probably gonna feel great."
She laughed, I laughed, we both walked out after the store had closed and went our separate ways.
Patricia, the district manager, then told me not to make inappropriate comments like that and I was being officially reprimanded. I asked what I had done wrong, because I didn't start the conversation, only made a passing comment that we had both laughed at. Her even asking me to walk her outside because she didn't feel safe walking across the parking lot to her car after dark. What had I done wrong? Patricia glared at me and said, "It's disrespectful and immature to not admit a mistake when you made one."
I asked the cashier, who was the only other person in the store that night, if she had said anything to the district manager and she said, "no, they pulled it off the camera feeds during an audit is what the manager said." Turns out, Patricia just didn't like me and had been looking for an excuse to write me up, the head manager even told me so when I texted her.
So from now on, I don't talk to anyone (man or woman) at work apart from "hey" or "bye".
Side note about the district manager "Patricia": this is a woman who insisted that one of our pregnant cashiers with scoliosis had to stand in one spot at the cash register for 8 hour shifts with no matt, seat, or stool. Then she wrote me up when I bought a big foam matt with my own money off the aisle and gorilla-glued it to the floor so that they had something soft to stand on.
Fuck you, "Patricia"
These comments make me glad I work at a predominantly female workplace under female management. We have two dudes, but they've been here for a long time and are beloved. It's a weird word but idk what else to call it. One dude is a child (high school intern), and the other is married with kids. Neither of them have issues with women, else they wouldn't be here.
Anyone who has the entire force of HR, government, law enforcement and the very culture zeitgeist at their beckon call should be engaged with caution.
Mix that with a frequent sense of entitlement, emotional instability and a general lack of personal accountability and you have a ***stupendously*** dangerous person.
Thank goodness I'm self employed.
Im here to work, not socialize. In my experience getting too personal with ppl at work just doesnt work out alot of the time. Im not gonna get caught in a situation where my "friend from work" is beefing with my employer and now i gotta choose a side. Not gonna risk the many years i put in because I wanna flirt with my female co workers or patients.
I dont avoid the women at my work, as my work is like 90% women. I make sure to just establish boundaries and not get too personal with ppl. This even includes my employers. They sometimes wanna do things outside of work with us and i always refuse. Boundaries are important and im their longest working employee for a reason.
Dear Penthouse Confessions:
I work at a small marital aid manufacturing company, that employs mostly female staff.
One day , I went to work, entering by the back door as usual, because I'm the only employee working in shipping, and I make a coffee on a little stand beside my forklift.
I stacked many cardboard boxes that day on warehouse shelves, palletized a bunch , shrink wrapped them and loaded a pretty high number of trucks .
At lunch time, I ate my balogne sandwich alone by the little standing table by the forklift, and washed it down with cheap decaffeinated instant coffee.
Then I moved more boxes, stacking some, and loading others on trucks. No one else ever comes into the warehouse, so I can drive the forklift fast and load lots of shrink wrapped palletized boxes .
At quitting time, I plugged my forklift in as usual, turned off the lights , and left by the same door.
When I got home, I did some stretches, drank a glass of tepid tap water, and sat on the edge of my bed with my chin in my hands, like I do most evenings.
One time, a spider crawled across the floor, right in front of me! I'll always remember that day.
Sometimes , when it gets dark, I get up and turn a light on, before resuming sitting on the edge of my bed with my chin in my hands staring at the floor.
I am sure glad my grandpaw got me the warehouse job, and I'll always remember his advice ;
" In literature and writing " grandpaw would say, " Always have a point, and edit for temporal and person switches mistakes '
My second day into the electrical trade I was told not to speak with or interact with the 2 women on the job site. Nothing against them I did it anyway, but the reasoning was it was 100% of the time their word against yours and if they happened to not like you they would get you fired in a heartbeat and they would be rewarded a gift card for their courage.
Some women would rather be left alone in the woods with a wild bear than to be near a man she feels might make uncomfortable, men naturally avoid women but when lies come I to play a woman can exasperate the situation making it even more uncomfortable.
# Message to all users: This is a reminder to please read and follow: * [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules) * [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439) * [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) When posting and commenting. --- Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`. * Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit. * Do not harass or annoy others in any way. * Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit. --- You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They will ask me for help with their computer problems, but to be fair I avoid the men for the same reason.
IT?
Don't think a murderous sewer clown would be particularly good with technology.
So many people have recommended that movie to me, even complete strangers. It's like every time I leave the house, they keep shouting at me: "Watch It!" "Why don't you watch It?!" "HEY, BUDDY, YOU BETTER WATCH IT!!!" It's nearly enough to cause me to have an accident.
He likes to play games though
Have you tried turning it off and back on again?
Information Technology
Intelligent Tacos
Internet Things
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
I tend to keep a distance. Last year had a woman who I was never interested in, would never be interested in nor ever gave any indication other than just friendliness as I was new spread rumors that we were seeing each other and more, had someone ask if I was gay because I kept rejecting any advances and in general caused a mess. Also note, she’s my mother’s age. Way too old to be acting like that. I was just new in town trying to make friends. I heard about all the rumors from other people. I was extremely uncomfortable at work for a very long time. Still am to a degree. That was the moment I stopped trying to be friends with women at work. Never again. I say hello and go about my day
>...had someone ask if I was gay because I kept rejecting any advances and in general caused a mess. Whoever said that to you is part of the wider problem.
Correct, that’s why rather than just being distant from the older lady I stay away form all of them. I caught a lot more rumors and comments later. It’s a very toxic environment which is why I deal with it with a blanket solution. It’s in the best interest for my career to be completely and strictly about work and that’s it.
I’ve had this one pulled on me multiple times. It’s like nah, I just don’t wanna fuck *you*.
That's the kinda thing I would talk to HR about. Absolutely insane and inappropriate behavior
You have to remember that HR is always going to be staffed by the most loyal corporate sycophants possible. They are going to take the path of least resistance when it comes to resolving a situation, and that could very well mean firing the person bringing up the issue for "unrelated reasons" or just ignoring it. They do not care about you; they care about the position their loyalty to the company affords them. I am definitely not saying don't ever talk to HR, just make sure you have good evidence in case they retaliate. Use them as a tool, because you can never trust them as people.
Yeah- fuck Toby Flenderson!
Eee wtf was wrong with her? Sorry you experienced that.
Thanks, I appreciate that. Sucked dealing with being in a brand new city and that was my first real introduction to the people here.
Fuuuuck! I made friends with a woman at my skydiving club, okay! So! She was hitting it off with this Skydiver, and they exchanged numbers. Then she got like... insecure confiding in me saying he hasn't called, and she doesn't know how to feel about him, blah blah. He brought a date to the club once, we dissected and discussed that, her relationship preferences, the whole shebang. So I found out he's basically solo poly. When I told her this her response was "Oh yeah! He made sure I knew". ... Soo like ... what was all the fucking insecurity about if he was upfront.. She did this with another guy where they slept together, and then he ghosted her, but then a week later he was back, and then gone again, and like.... I've been abused.. So I start getting anxious this dude is fucking with her, and hit my boiling point, and send some stupid fucking message about like sorry if I'm over stepping, but you should read up on trauma bonding blah blah. Once again her response was "Oh no! He's been upfront, he has hernia and needs surgery and shit". So once again it's like... what the fuck. I have two other juicy stories about different women, one ends with a dude moving to South America 🤣 but I gtg. Stay safe men.
I'm there to work. I won't avoid a woman in the workplace, especially if they're a coworker in need of assistance, but I don't carry my personal life into the workplace. I like keeping my personal and professional lives separated. But thats just me.
This concept baffles people, lol. The idea that I'm solely here to do my due diligence and not gossip and laze around seems to be a hard pill to swallow😃
Oh I laze around. That’s one of the good parts of work sometimes. But gossip, not really my thing.
I won’t actively avoid women at work but I will actively avoid any woman who appears to be interested in me. Looks happen in the workplace, it usually becomes obvious who could be a problem quickly. I avoid these women because I have had problems with women bothering me in the past
Will you shower me with your wisdom young man
My mandatory Sexual Harassment training has taught me anything I do could be misconstrued and used against me
Make eye contact for longer than 0.2473 seconds? Sexual harassment
Avoid eye contact? Sexist discrimination. Straight to HR with you. And for eye contact to happen, both parties must be doing the same thing. Which means only one is guilty (guess which).
>Avoid eye contact? Sexist discrimination. Straight to HR with you. How autistic people end up in HR.
You can always get sent to HR for not talking to a woman. Because my refusal to have a conversation with her about her suicidal feelings made her uncomfortable.
[удалено]
Nailed it
The general work place especially blue collar is so anti harassment that you can’t even talk to them anymore without worrying your career is about to be over
During orientation at this new job I had. They told me harassment is defined by the accuser or individual feeling harassed, and that the company has a zero tolerance policy for harassment. So basically you'll likely be fired on the spot if someone accused you of harassment and they define what harassment is. Just easier to keep it moving.
I'd honestly make up a lie and say they harassed me so now they're doing retaliation.
Then you will be introduced to the double-standard exception.
The training about sexual harassment literally states, "intent doesn't matter." Meaning if you smile and say good morning, and someone reports it as creepy, you lose your job. If you work in a very competitive or cutthroat field, your coworkers can have every motivation to take you out already. This is too convenient of a means. The problem is that anyone can say anything at any time, and it can cost you your livelihood and ability to be hired anywhere. I understand the intention behind the rules and condemn the atrocious acts of some men in the workplace... that being said, i believe in evidence based justice, and I don't make a habit of dancing around land mines.
I've taken the "harassment" training many times and can confirm. It is literally anything that makes the other person uncomfortable. I just plainly avoid the women other than the necessary interaction, which actually has the opposite effect on them.
Does it an actually say “intent doesn’t matter”???!
Yes. Those are the exact words. You can read the... other perspective... if you Google intent vs. Impact. This kind of thinking has spread throughout corporate America in the last decade or so.
I feel like verbiage like that just encourages people who like to play the victim card, and subsequently allows them to win by playing that card.
I mean, you're on reddit. You have to have seen this game in action before. It's absolutely designed that way, by people like that, for exactly that purpose. At least in my opinion.
I work in tech, I can 100% confirm that it says that 1. Intent doesn’t matter, the receiver gets to decide 2. Women are always seen as the victims. The sexual harassment training doesn’t even acknowledge that men can be victims.
Tell whoever is running the session you think men can be victims too. You'll be holding a box of your belongings and being escorted to your car by security within the hour.
It’s an digital session that is the exact same one that we’ve seen over the past 3 years
I’m a guy. I’ve had a girl at work pass a note to me asking me to f*ck her. I politely told her I won’t with coworkers. She asked again a couple weeks later and I have her the same response and it ended there. Not that I would want any added attention, but imagine I went to the manager with that story, I’d probably be the one who’d get fired smh
[удалено]
Remote work definitely makes it easier. Kind of amazing how the corpos found a way to use social justice to squeeze productivity out of people even harder.
> The training about sexual harassment literally states, "intent doesn't matter." In what dystopian hellscape is that a thing?
In the USA.
And to a lesser extent europe.
Thanks.
Yes. The language is similar about DEI and racial sensitivity training in modern American corporate culture as well. The meetings are often racially segregated too. We've taken a page from the USSR, and the CCP apparently. We are evolving, just backward.
[удалено]
Don't smear the Soviets with this shit. Sexual harassment lawsuits and DEI trainings are a 100% American innovation.
Lol fair enough. I was more talking about the criminalization of humor.
In Soviet Russia, humor criminalizes YOU! - Y. Schmirnov
Naw it's all good, I knew where you were going. Couldn't resist getting the jab in there.
All good. I appreciate observational humor, unlike our human resources overlords.
Nah. Authoritarian cultural control is the same the world over.
Devolving.
I was asking you where. This is in the USA? Another reason I can be glad not to live there, then.
It used to be really nice, some of it still is. From what I hear, no place is doing particularly well right now. I just keep hoping we are all going to wake up and dump the wokeness. I think the companies like it though, because it gives them an iron clad reason to fire anybody they want at any time, without getting sued.
The future.of every workplace. It's only a matter of time.
>The training about sexual harassment literally states, "intent doesn't matter." Meaning if you smile and say good morning, and someone reports it as creepy, you lose your job. Perfect example of how society has pedestalized women way too much. They aren't allowed to be socially uncomfortable by the slightest bit. So if a woman has social anxiety, we can't acknowledge that. It's simply a man's fault if she's uncomfortable. Absolutely ridiculous lol.
Yeah, I really don't want to go there with this argument. I absolutely believe that all of this stuff can be laid directly at the feet of identity politics at large. I don't, however, believe that anything positive will be achieved by widening the devide between men and women. That's really just buying into the same kind of garbage philosophy.
>I really don't want to go there Too bad because that's where we're at as a society lol. So you're already there.
Well, I don't think problems can be solved by using the same kind of thinking that created them, and personally I would desperately like to walk this stuff back. It's trashing the quality of life of everyone involved.
Because it feels like just existing in the presence of a woman can be harassment. I don't want to bother anyone, and I don't want any trouble.
I feel very uncomfortable around women, I often feel like I am a bother to them given my own experiences and many of the sentiments expressed by women today. I feel unwanted and like persona non grata. The anxiety and insecurity gets the best of me, so I make it a point to keep my interactions with them to absolute bare minumum. My line of work makes that a little diffucult, which contributes to my dissatifaction with my career.
I don't avoid women completely, but I avoid them alone until I trust them. I've been sexually harassed, and downright sexually assaulted by females too many times over the years. I'm a happily married man, and don't need or want those problems. And even with evidence, as a man, you're rarely believed or helped. I went to HR once about a co-worker who was sending me nudes, and the response I got was " who do you think courts will believe, you or the young pretty girl?". I had the texts on my phone, and they did nothing. Some women will do things to men that absolutely wouldn't be tolerated if a man did it to a woman, and as a man it's tough to do anything more than avoid them.
As a woman I also avoid being alone with men until I trust them.
As a man, I don't blame you. I've seen how disgusting some men can be as well. I don't care to associate with people of either sex that can't be respectful.
Who asked you?
The problem is that in modern workplaces the burden is on the accused, not the accuser to prove wrongdoing, and the only evidenced the accuser needs to present to HR is that they (the accuser) was offended. The intent of the accuser, the context of the situation, none of it matters. It doesn’t even matter if it was a conversation that the accuser wasn’t even apart of and only overheard part of with no context. And to make things worse you know damn well that not everyone’s feelings will be treated as equal by HR. A woman who heard two male coworkers telling a dirty joke will be taken seriously. A woman grabbing a man’s crotch and threatening to fire him if he doesn’t fuck her will be shrugged off. Deny it all you like ladies, but that’s the implication of the rhetoric spewed towards men. That might not have been your intent, but when you go years calling men evil and privileged and rapists you don’t sympathize with them when they are the one being wronged. Hence, men avoid you at work. And we don’t try to ask you out anymore. And we don’t hold doors open or offer to give up our seats on the bus, or be chivalrous in any way. You wanted to live your whole life without men because you said we were all evil toxic rapists. Wish granted. We left you alone and now you’re realizing you don’t like it. You are starting to realize men did a lot more good in your life than bad, but you don’t want to admit you were wrong so you make questions like this. You made that bed. Sleep in it.
so I don't get fired because of some supposed infraction.
I avoid everyone equally
Because all it takes is an accusation from a vindictive woman with a victim complex, and BOOM... life is wrecked.
30 years ago we could have been friends with woman in the workplace and even hung out with them
For example, if a man approaches a woman in a non-sexual way at work, a woman can complain to management that he made her feel "uncomfortable". And management tends to always side with the woman and the man loses his job.
I don’t go out of my way to talk to female coworkers partly for this reason. The awkwardness and potential consequences are not worth whatever I would get out of it.
So can a man. Jesus Christ. What is happening on the internet? I work in a very historically male dominant industry, if people had this attitude I couldn’t do my job.
Because they're more comfortable around a bear than me
I think the answer to that depends on who's asking.
No nefarious reasons, I just don't need the distraction rn. I'm focused on making sure my kids graduate.
I don't avoid women but I would never be alone with them. I'm not risking my career. It's just not worth it.
I rebuilt my whole office to glass walls and put fake cameras in. Gets rid of crooks trying shit on.
Reading the comments here makes me grateful to live in boring Germany.
The post is generating some laughs in the Slack chat from what I've heard.
I apologize, I didn’t want to harass anyone by that.
Oh you have the same thing growing too, even if it’s not yet as large as in most English speaking countries. It’s just a matter of which particular bubble or work environment you’re in.
Yep training taught me it doesn’t matter what it is a woman can bring it to hr and land you in trouble. I’ve seen women do it as well so unless I have to talk to you I’m not having anything to do with you
I just go to work. I'm an electrician. There are two female electricians in my area that I know of and they co-own the same small residential electric business. I can easily understand why they aren't working with we men too.
I was friends with a female co-worker who literally detailed why she hated all of her female colleagues and how she felt the last couple of male colleagues she worked with were creeps. I slowly disengaged contact over time as I felt like any word she disagreed with that I would have uttered would lead to some kind of HR case, I don't want the drama I am here to work. Thank you
Tbf I avoid everyone cause I’m there to work and go home not gallivant around
I don't avoid them, there's 3 I interact with on a daily basis and others I'm around from time to time. It doesn't bother me, but I'm just there for work, nothing else.
It’s mutual. I’ve seen women cross the street or take the elevator instead of stairs to avoid me (like they’ll be walking one direction, notice me, stop, make a 90/180/270 degree turn). I think i just look criminal/intimidating
Too much drama!
You will never understand, it’s for our own legal safety.
I'm 44 and poor in a poor area. Single women my age are almost always looking for someone to support them and their kids. I don't make enough to do that
Username.
Women chose the bear remember?
Do you make all judgments of society based on edited TikTok videos?
Don't need HR breathing down my neck when I'm a high earner nowadays. Not risking my salary for the drama.
Because life is far easier without drama.
i've seen women getting offendedn by "hello ladies" or "you look great today" and complaining to hr because of that. and many men don't want to put up with that anymore, getting into trouble for something so harmless isn't worth it. so some prefer not to talk to them at all anymore and rather avoid them. imo that's a overreaction from both sides, but since men are the ones getting in trouble, I can kinda understand the ones who choose this path.
This is a very leading question.
I've been equally friendly with female and male coworkers throughout a more than 15 year tech career in very progressive areas of the US. Never had to worry about anything related to #MeToo. Make your coworkers like you by being helpful, supportive, indispensable at your job, and not creepy - you won't need to worry about false accusations, and people will be on your side if one is made.
I think a lot of the people responding here already have severe social anxiety, and assume extremist takes online represent society more than they do. That said, it might depend on where people live and work. The ultra-radical and identity-obsessed nutjobs do exist in real life too - it’s just that they’re concentrated in certain industries and places: academia, certain arts, more ‘Bohemian’ parts of certain cities, etc. Specific companies even in tech lean far more heavily into this than others. I’ve been around both even recently, and if I had only been in jobs like my current one I’d think it was overblown as well and never interact with this crap at all. But some environnements really are toxically anti-male etc. in the way described. Trick is not to join such a work environment and keep the crazies away.
>Make your coworkers like you by being helpful, supportive, indispensable at your job, and not creepy - you won't need to worry about false accusations, That last part isn't true in some situations.
There are always exceptions. But if you're widely liked, you're not an easy target, and some asshole looking to make a false accusation will usually make it against an easy target.
I have a female colleague whom I'm in good terms with but it wasn't the case a year ago when she didn't talk to me out of spite for 2 months. Now I always feel like I'm walking on eggshells when I'm talking with her because she's easily get offended by everything.
Zero upside. Career/life-ending downsides.
Risk of being canceled not worth benefit of a another work buddy. I have work buddies who are female but took a bit to know they were cool, before moved on to joking around. Sorry, married, kids, bald where male, easy target, and I like my job.
No I've never had that problem. Just make sure to keep my conversations appropriate
I'm avoiding women in general (except my friends). Always have the feeling that I'm not welcome in their presence and I'm really glad I have a fully remote job
This
My mother beat me. My entire life, society has told me men are the monsters. I'm scared of everyone, but especially women.
You mean like Mike Pence?
🏆
Do you all call your wife “mother” as well?
I don’t. I chat with coworkers often enough.
"Hello...HR"
I assume they don't want anything to do with me and I will not risk offending her.
The smell of bleach and formaldehyde from her bung hole says "DEATH". Imma pass...
I used to be really social at work. I would get a lot of people together after the office to hang out. 5 years ago, I had a woman ask me out on a date at work. I politely declined because I had a girlfriend. She reported me to HR claiming I sexually harassed her and was selling drugs out of my desk. It took a 2 month investigation, my desk being searched, all my emails and files on my computer reviewed and HR interviewing many other employees for them to finally clear my name. They were ready to fire me on the spot but thankfully I happen to know a few female executives that went to bat for me. This same woman did this to another guy a few months later and they finally realized what was going on and parted ways with her. I had always really tried to be the outgoing guy that brought everyone together and was always very openly supportive of an anyone. I loved setting up company events both official and non official. I liked volunteering a lot. But being falsely accused of that killed me. Ever since then, unless someone is on my direct team, I will not acknowledge their existence, male or female. No eye contact, no passing nod, I don't want to know your name or remember your face, I don't want to hear about what you do or your fucking gold fish. I eat lunch in my car alone, I will not go to any non-mandatory company social events, I leave the mandatory events the second I am able to. I've had other women at work approach me since then (women I'd date outside of work in a heartbeat too), a lot of people invite me out to places/events. I am as cold and standoffish as possible so they never ask or approach me again. Even with my direct team members, I will not talk to them about my outside life other than the necessary details. I damn near lost my career and my entire life over something I did not do. I will never intentionally form a single friendship or relationship in the workplace ever again. I will never be active in the workplace in anyway outside of my professional duties ever again. If there was a way I could make my personal and professional life even further apart, I would. So yeah. Don't falsely accuse people of shit. I don't give a fuck about a movement or anything outside of my own situation. I get my work done effectively and I'm very productive with my team which is mostly women. It's the social aspect outside of the necessary professional conduct I will not engage in.
"Hi", "Bye" and keep it moving.
The title has a presupposition. The question implies you are genuinely certain men are actively avoiding women and that they are here. You're really looking to vent the frustration from your end but in this hidden fashion for people to say it for you. Not every woman at work is a weirdo. I promise. Men can be weirdos too.
I don't think I actively avoid them. That being said I'm really not worried about the woman I work with directly but rather the miserable older lady that likes to spite report any man that speaks to the woman at the store I work at. Just really not worth catching a stray because she is getting divorced.
So, I'm pretty attractive. I avoid women at work usually because they end up being inappropriate with me.
I think a lot of men are just afraid of making women uncomfortable. All the friends I made at work are women, but honestly? It's not that big of a deal. At the end of the day, it's just another human being.
Friendly gestures can be misinterpreted. You are probably better off avoiding any issues.
Avoid false allegations of sexual harassment.
It's standard practice to avoid baseless accusations or speculation. Yes, it probably hurts women, but tough shit. Standard sexual harassment training literally says that your intent in interactions does not matter, so any woman can hit you with some bullshit any time they want to.
Surely you’re not suggesting that any woman ever would say something inconsistent and misrepresent events hyperbolically based purely on how she felt about a man? There is literally not a single woman I have ever met who is like this, it is unheard of. Believe them all, always.
Yep, this is why I never drive my car. Too many bad, drunk drivers out there. Standard practice for me to avoid those risks. I also never walk anywhere either. Those drunk drivers take out plenty of pedestrians, too. Gotta always avoid those risks. I don’t even leave my room at all. Too many crazy people. Any one of them could be a murderer. Standard practice to avoid all contact with other living beings if possible. You realize that this is basically how y’all sound to a normal person, right?
I don’t think avoiding women is the answer…. Treat all coworkers… nah, hold up, all people you aren’t romantically involved with, with respect and earnest friendliness. Understand and uphold boundaries. Don’t give them any legitimate reason to have anything to say. No suggestive jokes, no questionable touches, no attention more than you’d give a male acquaintance/coworker. For an added layer of security, don’t be alone in a room with a woman unless you have a high level of rapport and trust with her. IMO, avoiding women is the behavior of someone with a guilty conscience.
Nah some people are just batshit crazy
Correct, and so the only thing you can control in those situations is your own behavior. If your own conduct is squeaky clean, nothing will come out of false claims, which really aren’t very common anyway. Avoiding all women out of fear of being MeToo’d is incel logic
It's not all women, it's women in the workplace and it's based on the ruleset set by whoever. If we can be accused of anything at anytime and it's basically assumed to be true, the best course of action if you value yourself is to avoid them whenever possible.
If you’re disciplined on a false accusation without an internal investigation, you’ve got grounds to sue the company/organization.
I work in the call centre with 93% women. I don’t need the hassles or the drama. I just go in. I keep my head down. I do my job and I talk to all my coworkers professionally. They don’t know anything about my personal life unless I tell them and I never do. It’s just easier that way.
"Stories" huh?... Where do *you* work where this is a thing? In my working experience (1990's till present) it's always been the other way around where I've witnessed my male peers turn into creeps and weirdos if a woman so much as smiles at them.
I work in a building that is predominantly women. Many of them are my friends. Been there 20 years and I have no fear of talking with them or even *gasp* joke around. The reason that I can do all of this is because I don't try to fuck them all or be a creepy asshole!! Guess what?! It works!
MeToo brought out the evil women who thought they could get the best revenge using lies. Now men are scared of these type of women.
If I wanted to gamble I'd go to a casino.
The bullshit lawsuits and false accusations that they can stir up for the fun of it is enough to ruin a man’s life. There are way too many women that want to screw a man out of everything just so she can feel powerful.
I never heard that. Before Me Too, I already live in a country with strict laws where touching a woman anywhere non consensually, including shoulders and elbow is a jailable offense and also saying anything thar cause women to feel uncomfortable is also a jailable offense. But I never met a man who avoids women because it's not that difficult to keep your hands to yourself and not say offensive things. After all in a work environment if you do not even possess the bare minimum of basic people skills, and know what is appropriate or inappropriate to say, your boss might fire you for that anyway. As it's not just the women getting offended, your male boss will get offended too.
You should keep your hands to yourself, but jailing someone for touching an elbow is asinine.
What country has such laws?
Spain definitely has. Though I think the OP is not from there.
How does it go there with interactions between Spaniards and recent migrants?
Singapore and it's heavily enforced. That's why it's one of the most pleasant country for women to be in. No wolf whistling, you walk around in peace and be alone even at 3am at night and nothing happens. Men are well behaved. We did get dumb tourists who get too handsy in clubs with women and they find out the hard way what happens. There are undercover cops in clubs.
some I talk to, The one I avoid because shes stupidly pretty and I dont wanna annoy her with my presance
That's pretty much the main reason. I work with a lot of meatheads and a pretty good number of them are uncivilized enough that they would make a pass at a hole in a wall if you stuck balloons to it for boobs. I'd rather not be associated with that "just in case" The more minor reason is that they tend to ask me for a lot of help when they get comfortable.
You’ve answered your own question
We don't need more charges....
Because it's easy for a man to get in trouble. A woman even accuses a man at looking at her in a manner she feels uncomfortable, then we have a sexual misconduct case on our hands. Extremely hard for a man to prove his innocence in cases like thus. So it's easier to just avoid them at this point. If you not there, your name can't call eh
You don't need to avoid them all the time. Just avoid being alone with them without another man in the same room and you are good.
Cause the ones that talk to me are super fucking creepy. I'd report the harassment if they weren't single mothers with small children.
[удалено]
If you're referring to not wanting to have sex with work colleagues, fine - but you know you can interact with women in a non-sexual way, right?
I haven't had this experience at all... honestly sounds like some incel bs to me.
Because it has become and absolutely hostile world against adult men. If you look at them you are a predator or racist. If you talk to them you have invaded their space and you are a predator and racist. Or you are some form of hater, homophone, boomer or some other S they want to level at you. Let them get IVF to reproduce and live with their cats forever. F them as a species.
Working in an office is like a school of sharks circling. There is no problem unless one shows weakness, then there is blood in the water and a frenzy ensues. Never share anything personal, private, unprofessional in an office. This is why I prevent being romantic and friends with coworkers.
You never mix business and personal. If (when) the relationship ends. Your career could as well.
I have travel to HQ for work quaterly we havev5 approved hotels. Well I'm loyal to Hilton. It's also the furthest trip from airport and its furthest from HQ. I'm a very social person. But I don't want any woman at my job. In a hotel where I'm staying. Asking to share an Uber seeing her in the lobby and asking if she wants subway. All ways I could be fired. Someone told me several women in our department like to sit in one hotel lobby and see who cones in drunk. I like my work situation ill keep to myself.
After WW1 men had the 1000 yard stare. After ME2 men have the 1000 yard (not today CIA) parameter.
Had a girl hardcore flirting with me at work. Took me about 2 weeks to work up the courage to ask her to go to lunch. She initially said yes. Then about 30 minutes before our "work date" I guess she told her supervisor she couldn't eat with him because she had plans with me. Something happened in that conversation and I was immediately made out to be a bad guy/player of the office. I was new and had never asked out a coworker before. Will never try to hook up at work again.
There is a natural tension in the work environment, a subtext of stress. The tension creates presence, awareness, and confidence. Everyone shows up to work, clean and looking nice. As a man, it's attractive to see the serious and successful side of a woman, and vice versa. It's natural. That doesn't mean we behave like animals (at least, most of us), but it does create tension. The kind that can be misinterpreted, either way. I'm not some sort of catch, but I've been hit on everywhere I've worked. In my early 20s, I went with it and had a long serious relationship with a coworker.. and I'd never do it again, but you can't help feeling a certain way. You can hide it, control what you do, and what you say, but it doesn't mean you won't be uncomfortable. It goes both ways. If I'm getting hit on and I don't want to be, I don't have something to say to make it stop. "I don't like you flirting with me" could be twisted, either way. As a guy, it's best we just avoid close and meaningful friendships with our female coworkers. It is better to keep it as colleagues and acquaintances where we only talk about work. Anything too far is then easily identified, and everyone is happy.
We work long hours and I don’t trust my bois.
Work is work, I'm not always serious but I realise the only reason I'm at the places I'm at is because I am paid to be there. If people wanna start talking about relationships or try give me unsolicited relationship advice, I just tell them I'm just here to work. I'll be friendly because that's how you keep customers, and wholesalers, well no one needs awkward encounters with wholesalers,
I can't as we share too many laughs together. But that's largely because they're not the fragile egotistical heading that (bowel) movement. They'd also not stand for that shit in the first place because they've got strong characters. I coukd see for young men that egg shells coukd be the carpeted arrangements for some spaces where being a man would class you as second or third class and would be out of there smartly shoukd any whiff come about.
I can't speak for others but I've found a comfortable middle ground with it after several incidents. I am married, and wear a ring, so honestly I get kinda pissed off, but hey, it's a whole new world, some people are poly or have open relationships or whatever. Basically I treat them like I treat anyone. Unless they initiate something inappropriate. So, I am friendly, and engaged and all that. But as soon as the "Hey, I think your cute." or "Wow, you have really broad shoulders!" comes out, I just ignore them until they get the point. Like, I will just stand there, not look at them, and not talk. Just leave it hanging. 99% of the time this gets the point across and they say something like "Oh, sorry, that was inappropriate." or "Oh, I didn't see the ring, sorry!". The 1% it doesn't I just continue ignoring their advance and change the subject or continue training them or whatever. Then I go home and laugh about it with my wife. I tell her because she also works where I do, and chances are the person hitting on me knows this, and that I am married. I feel like if they took that shot at our marriage she deserves to know about it.
I avoid interacting with women at the office other than seating across the table or with proper distance. Only make eye contact and look away when they stand up or walk in front of me. I'm in a leadership position and any issue could cause a lot of trouble. We have an assistant my partner and I. Today she came into my office for my signature and was standing very close to the desk with tight jeans that forced a camel toe. I just turned around.
I've heard this about major industries. Every now and then a woman gets a promotion and a dude gets fired because of a lie. This 'believe all woman' shit has gone too far. I know two different people who have had their life ruined because of some physo chick saying some bullshit to the police. OP, if you're a woman, feel free to downvote because 'obviously this commenter is a man and woman literally can't lie and therefore this guy doesn't know what he's talking about'
Had this job about ten years back before MeToo, but eh. Me, 25 at the time, and another guy who I'll call Jeff (60ish yo) were the only guys who worked in this retail store. All the other employees were 16-18 year old girls and two 40ish yo women. Jeff, it turned out, like to harrass the girls when he was the only guy in the store. Store policy was that there had to be at least 2 people in the store at all times, so when I would get off at 2pm or 3pm, he'd start harrassing them by 5pm. None of them ever wanted to report it to HR, because we didn't really have an HR person. I had come back in the store one day to hear him asking the 17 year old cashier, "oh? You like the beach? You wear thong bikinis?" Cue me reporting him to the district manager, who ***refused*** to take action. Patricia, not her real name, just said that, "he just needs to be told not to talk like that in the workplace," and tore up the write-up that I had penned directly in front of my face. He was finally fired for refusing to clean, stock, and mop the bathrooms in the evenings despite his job title being custodian/janitor. I was reported because one of the cashiers began talking one day about getting a breast reduction for her 18th birthday while we were closing the store. I was busy counting the register tills while she was mopping, asking if her request for a week off had been approved. I told her it had then said, in passing, "hey, look at the bright side. You're back is probably gonna feel great." She laughed, I laughed, we both walked out after the store had closed and went our separate ways. Patricia, the district manager, then told me not to make inappropriate comments like that and I was being officially reprimanded. I asked what I had done wrong, because I didn't start the conversation, only made a passing comment that we had both laughed at. Her even asking me to walk her outside because she didn't feel safe walking across the parking lot to her car after dark. What had I done wrong? Patricia glared at me and said, "It's disrespectful and immature to not admit a mistake when you made one." I asked the cashier, who was the only other person in the store that night, if she had said anything to the district manager and she said, "no, they pulled it off the camera feeds during an audit is what the manager said." Turns out, Patricia just didn't like me and had been looking for an excuse to write me up, the head manager even told me so when I texted her. So from now on, I don't talk to anyone (man or woman) at work apart from "hey" or "bye". Side note about the district manager "Patricia": this is a woman who insisted that one of our pregnant cashiers with scoliosis had to stand in one spot at the cash register for 8 hour shifts with no matt, seat, or stool. Then she wrote me up when I bought a big foam matt with my own money off the aisle and gorilla-glued it to the floor so that they had something soft to stand on. Fuck you, "Patricia"
These comments make me glad I work at a predominantly female workplace under female management. We have two dudes, but they've been here for a long time and are beloved. It's a weird word but idk what else to call it. One dude is a child (high school intern), and the other is married with kids. Neither of them have issues with women, else they wouldn't be here.
A combination of resentment, bitterness, and low self esteem. Everyday I read online how women want to be left alone, so I’ll oblige them.
Cause it's a cliché for a me being a male teacher to flirt with other teachers. Same with the parents of the kids I teach.
I prefer to keep my life as simple and drama free as possible.
Anyone who has the entire force of HR, government, law enforcement and the very culture zeitgeist at their beckon call should be engaged with caution. Mix that with a frequent sense of entitlement, emotional instability and a general lack of personal accountability and you have a ***stupendously*** dangerous person. Thank goodness I'm self employed.
Im here to work, not socialize. In my experience getting too personal with ppl at work just doesnt work out alot of the time. Im not gonna get caught in a situation where my "friend from work" is beefing with my employer and now i gotta choose a side. Not gonna risk the many years i put in because I wanna flirt with my female co workers or patients. I dont avoid the women at my work, as my work is like 90% women. I make sure to just establish boundaries and not get too personal with ppl. This even includes my employers. They sometimes wanna do things outside of work with us and i always refuse. Boundaries are important and im their longest working employee for a reason.
I’m at work to make money. Plain and simple.
Dear Penthouse Confessions: I work at a small marital aid manufacturing company, that employs mostly female staff. One day , I went to work, entering by the back door as usual, because I'm the only employee working in shipping, and I make a coffee on a little stand beside my forklift. I stacked many cardboard boxes that day on warehouse shelves, palletized a bunch , shrink wrapped them and loaded a pretty high number of trucks . At lunch time, I ate my balogne sandwich alone by the little standing table by the forklift, and washed it down with cheap decaffeinated instant coffee. Then I moved more boxes, stacking some, and loading others on trucks. No one else ever comes into the warehouse, so I can drive the forklift fast and load lots of shrink wrapped palletized boxes . At quitting time, I plugged my forklift in as usual, turned off the lights , and left by the same door. When I got home, I did some stretches, drank a glass of tepid tap water, and sat on the edge of my bed with my chin in my hands, like I do most evenings. One time, a spider crawled across the floor, right in front of me! I'll always remember that day. Sometimes , when it gets dark, I get up and turn a light on, before resuming sitting on the edge of my bed with my chin in my hands staring at the floor. I am sure glad my grandpaw got me the warehouse job, and I'll always remember his advice ; " In literature and writing " grandpaw would say, " Always have a point, and edit for temporal and person switches mistakes '
Absolutely. Especially anyone more than 10 years younger- for many reasons.
My second day into the electrical trade I was told not to speak with or interact with the 2 women on the job site. Nothing against them I did it anyway, but the reasoning was it was 100% of the time their word against yours and if they happened to not like you they would get you fired in a heartbeat and they would be rewarded a gift card for their courage.
Some women would rather be left alone in the woods with a wild bear than to be near a man she feels might make uncomfortable, men naturally avoid women but when lies come I to play a woman can exasperate the situation making it even more uncomfortable.
For safety
General consensus on this thread: Women are assholes.