>"Oh, Lysa was not so fearsome as all that." She had been a pretty girl, in truth; dimpled and delicate, with long auburn hair. Timid, though. Prone to tongue-tied silences and fits of giggles, with none of Cersei's fire. Her older sister had seemed more interesting, though Catelyn was promised to some northern boy, the heir of Winterfell . . . but at that age, no girl interested Jaime half so much as Hoster's famous brother, who had won renown fighting the Ninepenny Kings upon the Stepstones. At table he had ignored poor Lysa, whilst pressing Brynden Tully for tales of Maelys the Monstrous and the Ebon Prince. Ser Brynden was younger then than I am now, Jaime reflected, and I was younger than Peck.
Valar dohaeris. In case you don't know, asearchoficeandfire.com is an essential tool for quotes. And http://searcherr.work for at least Fire & Blood & the appendices.
This made me wonder what if Jaime had married Lysa lol. I think everyone would have turned out so much better if that had happened.
Or Catelyn who he seemed to like more.
Cersei could go somewhere else, but Jaime as heir would be at Casterly Rock with his bride. Maybe Tywin would have kept Cersei at court with him. Aww, he would have left Tyrion at Casterly Rock too, and Jaime would have been the one who ruled there, so Tyrion probably would have had a chill life.
Jaime is at his core a decent and loyal person, Cersei just had a corrupting effect on him (not to absolve Jaime from responsibility for some of the terrible things he does).
Jaime happiness arc basically requires him not to be attracted to his sister and not attend the Harrenhal tourney. Those two things happen he’s fine, but ofc that’s a major change from canon. Hoster should’ve married Cat to Jaime before Brandon better alliance imo.
I love this mod for how beautiful and deep it is, but I only play it rarely because I find it super difficult, as someone who doesn't like to start out with more than 2-3 counties. I spend most of my time in Elder Kings, which is more at my skill level, but hopefully I get good enough to spend more time in ASOIAF like was the case for me in CK2.
well at the very least you then have to consider if someone would be as "Bold" as Barristan to save Aerys in Duskendale later. If Aerys isnt saved, then he potentially dies in the Defiance before he goes mad.
Rhaegar becomes King at 18yo.
That’s the real biggest change to the timeline the stepstones doesn’t change but Aerys dying and Rhaegar coming to the throne with Tywin as hand probably prevents a targaryan downfall
Yea wow that's actually a huge lynchpin in history. Funny and kinda sad how Barristan's biggest moment of valiant glory actually damned the realm in a roundabout way. But that's *very* GRRM.
"... If he had not gone into Duskendale to rescue Aerys from Lord Darklyn's dungeons, the king might well have died there as Tywin Lannister sacked the town. Then Prince Rhaegar would have ascended the Iron Throne, mayhaps to heal the realm. Duskendale had been his finest hour, yet the memory tasted bitter on his tongue." (The Queensguard, ADWD)
The words from the horse's mouth.
Tbf that’s the nature of the butterfly effect, you could say the same thing of a multitude of small happenstances even less substantial than the death of someone.
Is a Baratheon hereditary dynasty better than a Targ hereditary dynasty when the latter don't have dragons anymore? At that point I don't really see the difference. In a dynasty it's always just gonna be a mixed bag on a long enough timescale. Hell, only two Baratheon kings in and you get a murderous tween king.
But then Dany is never born, which could posibly change something more drastically in the future.
(Like not having dragons and not being able to fight against the other ones properly)
Targaryans not falling and dany not being born mean no dragons. Aerys not being king means no tourney of Harrenhall so Rhaegar and Lyanna don’t run off and that means no Jon. The timeline is massively changed Rhaegar is still obsessed with prophecy and thinks he’s Azor Ahai so some wild shenanigans would still go down.
Living by AGOT: Blackfish/Brynden Tully, Tywin Lannister, Kevan Lannister, Barristan Selmy, Hoster Tully, and Septon Meribald.
Dead but appear in the story or flashbacks: Jon Arryn, Aerys Targaryen, Gerold Hightower
Dead relatives that aren't directly in the story: Rickard Stark, Steffon Baratheon, Littlefinger's dad, Ser Goodwin (More mentor than relative)
War hero Roger Reyne? The man the Westerlands flocked to for leadership Roger Reyne? Who freely released and knighted his ward Kevan Lannister Roger Reyne? And was then murdered by Tywin alongside his entire family, that Roger Reyne?
I really like taking the Reyne perspective while reading the history of the Westerlands, a lot of it casts a contradictory light on the Lannister account of the period.
This is a bit of a tangent but it sort of tickles me that the Tarbeck-Reyne rebellion kind of paints Tywin as this unstoppable siege master. He assembles some engine capable of lobbing boulders large enough to bring down a (somewhat aged) keep *in a single day*. Then he blockades various entrances to a mine and diverts a lake into *overnight*. Like woe unto anyone who thinks their castle walls will stop Tywin from getting to you.
But then when the WOT5K is kicking off, what does Tywin do? He cavorts around the Riverlands hitting soft targets and leading a field army while sending his doofus son to settle into an unimaginative and grinding siege of Riverrun, the most important and defensible castle in the region. Lo and behold, the exposed target of Jaime's army ends up getting bamboozled by Robb's advance and the siege is broken along with Jaime's capture.
Seriously, Tywin? You didn't have any cheeky and vindictive ideas on that one? No meteor-lobbing mangonels up your sleeve this time?
Tarbeck's walls were probably good, but their keep seems unfixed, with just the one rock taking it down. For the Reynes it actually takes 2-3 days for them to divert the water, the dam itself was less than a day, but I get what you mean.
Part of the finickiness of things is probably GRRM not really considering castles too much unless they're plot relevant. Like many in the Riverlands just being swiped away, or not contributing to harassing the Lannisters on their march until Edmure.
But it's also that the wars caught the Reyne's and Tarbecks and Riverlords unprepared, their armies weren't called upon, many were caught outside their fortifications, supplies had not been gathered and so on.
They didn't expect open wars, Jaehaerys or Robert were expected to intervene, but then they suddenly died. And Lannisters and their friends were suddenly all that were at court to see to accountability.
Tywin and Kevan Lannister, Hoster Tully, Gerold Hightower, Septon Meribald, Jon Arryn, Rickard Stark. I thought there was mention of a Corbray or two as well.
Man, in an alternate reality where GRRM has Sanderson's writing output, one little spinoff story I would've liked to see is a Ninepenny Kings miniseries with the friendship of Steffon, Aerys, and Tywin as one of the biggest focuses. We as readers only really get exposed to Aerys when he's mad and Tywin after Castamere, aka the point at which he had a stick terminally shoved up his ass for the rest of all time. I really wanna see what their initial dynamic was like. Was Aerys funny before he was insane? Was Tywin a chill guy or was he always kind of a snooty, prideful prick, albeit a more lovable one? And then Steffon Baratheon is also there, and I have no thoughts on him.
>Was Aerys funny before he was insane?
Probably. We hear that he was charming in his youth.
>Was Tywin a chill guy or was he always kind of a snooty, prideful prick, albeit a more lovable one?
Probably the latter. At that point he had already been the 10-year-old to speak out against the marriage between Gemma and Emmon Frey. And it was immediately after the war when he massacred the Reynes and Tarbecks.
>And then Steffon Baratheon is also there, and I have no thoughts on him.
If we had seen him, I imagine he would be a Robert/Renly/Lyonel clone. Apart from Stannis, George kind of writes all of his Baratheons like the same character.
I’ve always thought that Tywin’s story would be a great spin off TV show if done well. There’s enough source material to give you the outline of the story but enough room to improvise to put together a series that fit the TV format well. The Ninepenny war season would be 🔥
>Man, in an alternate reality where GRRM has Sanderson's writing output, one little spinoff story I would've liked to see is a Ninepenny Kings miniseries
There's so much that could be done in the setting, too bad GRRM is a lazyass...
Brandon has a team around him for logistical support, not uncommon, and recently has started broaching the subject of Cosmere writing collaborations with Dan Wells, but I'm curious which of his existing novels you don't think he wrote alone. It's not like there's a ghostwriting situation going on with his work lol. He has written all of his existing work on the Cosmere as a solo author.
also that's he's been knighted shows that he fought in the south under southern leadership since the north has no tradition of knighthood, makes me wonder what he did to get knighted because we know ser jorrah got his by being the first man over the walls at pyke
Practically every male older character before Ned generation like Hoster Tully, the blackfish, Tywin, and everyone and their daddy. Since Westeros basically got together to kick the teeth of the blackfryes in.
The generation that fought in the war of ninepenny King's is basically Tywin's generation. So the fathers of the 'adult' characters in the story. Ned's dad, Robert's dad, Hoster Tully, Jon Arryn, the Mad King etc. The grandfather generation of the present day essentially.
One could argue The war of the Ninepenny kings is where the legend that is Barristan Selmy became cemented . In the thick of battle, the young knight Ser Barristan the bold met the the last blackfyre Maelys the Monstrous. In glorious fashion Ser Barristan slew Maeltys in single combat. Instantly writing his name in the history books forever.
Barristan Selmy, Tywin Lannister, Kevan Lannister, and Brynden Tully (The Blackfish). Also, Steffon Baratheon fought in the war despite not appearing in the books.
[Here's a list](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Category:Veterans_of_the_War_of_the_Ninepenny_Kings), most of whom you & the other commenters have mentioned.
The blackfish
Yea didn’t he tell a young Jaimie about those war stories?
>"Oh, Lysa was not so fearsome as all that." She had been a pretty girl, in truth; dimpled and delicate, with long auburn hair. Timid, though. Prone to tongue-tied silences and fits of giggles, with none of Cersei's fire. Her older sister had seemed more interesting, though Catelyn was promised to some northern boy, the heir of Winterfell . . . but at that age, no girl interested Jaime half so much as Hoster's famous brother, who had won renown fighting the Ninepenny Kings upon the Stepstones. At table he had ignored poor Lysa, whilst pressing Brynden Tully for tales of Maelys the Monstrous and the Ebon Prince. Ser Brynden was younger then than I am now, Jaime reflected, and I was younger than Peck.
Thx for Posting this. It was such a cool scene.
Valar dohaeris. In case you don't know, asearchoficeandfire.com is an essential tool for quotes. And http://searcherr.work for at least Fire & Blood & the appendices.
That’s great I’ll check it out. Valar dohaeris
This made me wonder what if Jaime had married Lysa lol. I think everyone would have turned out so much better if that had happened. Or Catelyn who he seemed to like more.
Jaime would have to be away from Cersei, & Lysa from Petyr.
Cersei could go somewhere else, but Jaime as heir would be at Casterly Rock with his bride. Maybe Tywin would have kept Cersei at court with him. Aww, he would have left Tyrion at Casterly Rock too, and Jaime would have been the one who ruled there, so Tyrion probably would have had a chill life.
Cat: I should have been born as the eldest son. Jaime: ... You remind me of someone.
The Jaime/Catelyn pairing would be especially interesting. Although any partner of Jaime's would be shortly murdered by Cersei.
Jaime is at his core a decent and loyal person, Cersei just had a corrupting effect on him (not to absolve Jaime from responsibility for some of the terrible things he does). Jaime happiness arc basically requires him not to be attracted to his sister and not attend the Harrenhal tourney. Those two things happen he’s fine, but ofc that’s a major change from canon. Hoster should’ve married Cat to Jaime before Brandon better alliance imo.
I wish we got more about him in the story
He ain’t dead
More whilst Brynden was still around at least, with the Long Night for TWOW still in full effect...
But the story is
Well, he’s kinda Schroedinger’s Fish at the moment. Assuming Winds comes out.
Barristan Selmy is probably the biggest. He killed Maelys.
It would be quiet interesting, if Maely had killed Barristan.
It happens in my CK3 games about half the time. Usually, it means the Blackfyres win.
I love this mod for how beautiful and deep it is, but I only play it rarely because I find it super difficult, as someone who doesn't like to start out with more than 2-3 counties. I spend most of my time in Elder Kings, which is more at my skill level, but hopefully I get good enough to spend more time in ASOIAF like was the case for me in CK2.
Barristan wouldn’t be remembered and someone else would kill Maelys a few minutes hours or days later.
well at the very least you then have to consider if someone would be as "Bold" as Barristan to save Aerys in Duskendale later. If Aerys isnt saved, then he potentially dies in the Defiance before he goes mad. Rhaegar becomes King at 18yo.
That’s the real biggest change to the timeline the stepstones doesn’t change but Aerys dying and Rhaegar coming to the throne with Tywin as hand probably prevents a targaryan downfall
Yea wow that's actually a huge lynchpin in history. Funny and kinda sad how Barristan's biggest moment of valiant glory actually damned the realm in a roundabout way. But that's *very* GRRM.
It’s funny because Barristan’s inner monologue thinks that exact thing
"... If he had not gone into Duskendale to rescue Aerys from Lord Darklyn's dungeons, the king might well have died there as Tywin Lannister sacked the town. Then Prince Rhaegar would have ascended the Iron Throne, mayhaps to heal the realm. Duskendale had been his finest hour, yet the memory tasted bitter on his tongue." (The Queensguard, ADWD) The words from the horse's mouth.
Tbf that’s the nature of the butterfly effect, you could say the same thing of a multitude of small happenstances even less substantial than the death of someone.
True, but this one's a pretty direct connection so it's fun to think about
They’re better off without the Targs
Is a Baratheon hereditary dynasty better than a Targ hereditary dynasty when the latter don't have dragons anymore? At that point I don't really see the difference. In a dynasty it's always just gonna be a mixed bag on a long enough timescale. Hell, only two Baratheon kings in and you get a murderous tween king.
They are essentially the same dynasty anyway
Yeah you're just picking between angry twinks and homophobic homosexuals at this point.
however, not "technically" a Baratheon
But then Dany is never born, which could posibly change something more drastically in the future. (Like not having dragons and not being able to fight against the other ones properly)
Targaryans not falling and dany not being born mean no dragons. Aerys not being king means no tourney of Harrenhall so Rhaegar and Lyanna don’t run off and that means no Jon. The timeline is massively changed Rhaegar is still obsessed with prophecy and thinks he’s Azor Ahai so some wild shenanigans would still go down.
Hoster Tully and Lord Baelish became friends in the war.
So did Rickard Stark and John Arryn
Living by AGOT: Blackfish/Brynden Tully, Tywin Lannister, Kevan Lannister, Barristan Selmy, Hoster Tully, and Septon Meribald. Dead but appear in the story or flashbacks: Jon Arryn, Aerys Targaryen, Gerold Hightower Dead relatives that aren't directly in the story: Rickard Stark, Steffon Baratheon, Littlefinger's dad, Ser Goodwin (More mentor than relative)
Roger Reyne is another interesting one.
War hero Roger Reyne? The man the Westerlands flocked to for leadership Roger Reyne? Who freely released and knighted his ward Kevan Lannister Roger Reyne? And was then murdered by Tywin alongside his entire family, that Roger Reyne? I really like taking the Reyne perspective while reading the history of the Westerlands, a lot of it casts a contradictory light on the Lannister account of the period.
This is a bit of a tangent but it sort of tickles me that the Tarbeck-Reyne rebellion kind of paints Tywin as this unstoppable siege master. He assembles some engine capable of lobbing boulders large enough to bring down a (somewhat aged) keep *in a single day*. Then he blockades various entrances to a mine and diverts a lake into *overnight*. Like woe unto anyone who thinks their castle walls will stop Tywin from getting to you. But then when the WOT5K is kicking off, what does Tywin do? He cavorts around the Riverlands hitting soft targets and leading a field army while sending his doofus son to settle into an unimaginative and grinding siege of Riverrun, the most important and defensible castle in the region. Lo and behold, the exposed target of Jaime's army ends up getting bamboozled by Robb's advance and the siege is broken along with Jaime's capture. Seriously, Tywin? You didn't have any cheeky and vindictive ideas on that one? No meteor-lobbing mangonels up your sleeve this time?
Tarbeck's walls were probably good, but their keep seems unfixed, with just the one rock taking it down. For the Reynes it actually takes 2-3 days for them to divert the water, the dam itself was less than a day, but I get what you mean. Part of the finickiness of things is probably GRRM not really considering castles too much unless they're plot relevant. Like many in the Riverlands just being swiped away, or not contributing to harassing the Lannisters on their march until Edmure. But it's also that the wars caught the Reyne's and Tarbecks and Riverlords unprepared, their armies weren't called upon, many were caught outside their fortifications, supplies had not been gathered and so on. They didn't expect open wars, Jaehaerys or Robert were expected to intervene, but then they suddenly died. And Lannisters and their friends were suddenly all that were at court to see to accountability.
Quellon Greyjoy as well
Tywin and Aerys are 2 that get overlooked. Edit: I guess I shouldn’t include Aerys since he doesn’t really appear but his presence is felt.
OP mentioned Aerys & three other deceased characters, so you're good fam. Tygett is a truly overlooked one though, only being a squire of 10.
Oh Jesus Christ I looked right over Aerys somehow 🙄 my bad. Tyget for sure. He’s the one Jaime is said to fight like correct?
Yeah, aunt Genna mentions it to Jaime. And Tygett killed four men in the WOT9PK, including one in his first battle. Very Jaime-like.
Septon Meribald
Came here to say this
Tywin and Kevan Lannister, Hoster Tully, Gerold Hightower, Septon Meribald, Jon Arryn, Rickard Stark. I thought there was mention of a Corbray or two as well.
You might be thinking of the Lord Corbray who hired Littlefinger's Braavosi sellsword great-grandfather. Probably for one of the Blackfyre Rebellions.
Man, in an alternate reality where GRRM has Sanderson's writing output, one little spinoff story I would've liked to see is a Ninepenny Kings miniseries with the friendship of Steffon, Aerys, and Tywin as one of the biggest focuses. We as readers only really get exposed to Aerys when he's mad and Tywin after Castamere, aka the point at which he had a stick terminally shoved up his ass for the rest of all time. I really wanna see what their initial dynamic was like. Was Aerys funny before he was insane? Was Tywin a chill guy or was he always kind of a snooty, prideful prick, albeit a more lovable one? And then Steffon Baratheon is also there, and I have no thoughts on him.
>Was Aerys funny before he was insane? Probably. We hear that he was charming in his youth. >Was Tywin a chill guy or was he always kind of a snooty, prideful prick, albeit a more lovable one? Probably the latter. At that point he had already been the 10-year-old to speak out against the marriage between Gemma and Emmon Frey. And it was immediately after the war when he massacred the Reynes and Tarbecks. >And then Steffon Baratheon is also there, and I have no thoughts on him. If we had seen him, I imagine he would be a Robert/Renly/Lyonel clone. Apart from Stannis, George kind of writes all of his Baratheons like the same character.
I picture Steffon as being as likeable as the ones you mentioned but smarter and more politically adept.
Even as another history book, in the form of Eon's *Account of the War of the Ninepenny Kings*.
I’ve always thought that Tywin’s story would be a great spin off TV show if done well. There’s enough source material to give you the outline of the story but enough room to improvise to put together a series that fit the TV format well. The Ninepenny war season would be 🔥
>Man, in an alternate reality where GRRM has Sanderson's writing output, one little spinoff story I would've liked to see is a Ninepenny Kings miniseries There's so much that could be done in the setting, too bad GRRM is a lazyass...
You know Sanderson has a team, right? He hasn't written all of that alone.
Brandon has a team around him for logistical support, not uncommon, and recently has started broaching the subject of Cosmere writing collaborations with Dan Wells, but I'm curious which of his existing novels you don't think he wrote alone. It's not like there's a ghostwriting situation going on with his work lol. He has written all of his existing work on the Cosmere as a solo author.
Rodrik Cassel fought in the WONP before becoming the master-at-arms at Winterfell.
Not confirmed, but most likely. Given Ser Rodrik is in at least his 50s.
also that's he's been knighted shows that he fought in the south under southern leadership since the north has no tradition of knighthood, makes me wonder what he did to get knighted because we know ser jorrah got his by being the first man over the walls at pyke
He could have fought under the Manderlys, or just get recognized by a present southern lord like Jorah does.
Excuse me, the proper acronym is WONK.
mb
Confirmed: Hoster Tully, Brynden Tully, Septon Meribald, Jon Arryn, Barristan Selmy, Tywin Lannister, Kevan Lannister. Possible: Balon Greyjoy, Rodrik Cassel, Dagmer Cleftjaw.
Wasn’t Kevan Lannister knighted during the war?
Yes, by Roger Reyne himself, who Kevan had squired for.
Practically every male older character before Ned generation like Hoster Tully, the blackfish, Tywin, and everyone and their daddy. Since Westeros basically got together to kick the teeth of the blackfryes in.
The generation that fought in the war of ninepenny King's is basically Tywin's generation. So the fathers of the 'adult' characters in the story. Ned's dad, Robert's dad, Hoster Tully, Jon Arryn, the Mad King etc. The grandfather generation of the present day essentially.
Possibilities include: - Lord Walder, Stevron, Emmon, Aenys, & Jared Frey, & Bastard Walder; - Hother & Mors Umber, Arnolf (& Rickard) Karstark, & Wyman Manderly; - Rodrik Harlaw, Rodrik Cassel, Rodrik Ryswell, & even the Wandering Wolf, Rodrik Stark; - Eon Hunter & his eldest son, Bronze Yohn Royce, Horton Redfort, & Vardis Egen; - Norbert Vance, Desmond Grell, Leslyn Haigh, Robin Ryger, & Lymond Lychester; - Gyles Rosby, Ardrian Celtigar, & Rennifer Longwaters; - Jeor Mormont, Squire Dalbridge, Denys Mallister, & Alliser Thorne; - Eldon Estermont, Bonifer Hasty, Ormund Wylde, & Harbert, Baratheon bros' great-uncle; - Leyton Hightower, Alester Florent, & Harmen Uller; - And Salladhor Saan, Brown Ben Plumm, & Harry Strickland.
One could argue The war of the Ninepenny kings is where the legend that is Barristan Selmy became cemented . In the thick of battle, the young knight Ser Barristan the bold met the the last blackfyre Maelys the Monstrous. In glorious fashion Ser Barristan slew Maeltys in single combat. Instantly writing his name in the history books forever.
Septon Meribald
Barristan, Blackfish, Tywin and Kevan Lannister, Hoster Tully, the Mad King, Gerold Hightower, Rodrik Cassel
Barristan fought in the war and killed Maelys himself
Septon Meribald
Barristan Selmy, Tywin Lannister, Kevan Lannister, and Brynden Tully (The Blackfish). Also, Steffon Baratheon fought in the war despite not appearing in the books.
Septon Meribald. "War of the ninepenny kings they called it, though I never saw a king nor earned a penny."
Tywin, the Blackfish, Kevan, Barristan Selmy.
Tywin and Kevan Lannister, Barristan Selmy, the Blackfish, Hoster Tully.
Tywin, Kevan, and Hoster Tully iirc. I'm pretty sure the first two got knighted during that war.
Hoster Tully, the Blackfish, Barristan Selmy, and I think Tywin.
[Here's a list](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Category:Veterans_of_the_War_of_the_Ninepenny_Kings), most of whom you & the other commenters have mentioned.