That sucks. I just ordered a book from there it won't arrive until halfway through July. Something's been up for a while with their postage times. But where else would I order books from? Feels like everything is being condensed into the huge megacorps like Amazon and I worry that pretty soon we'll have no real choice but to support the megacorps, if they're the only businesses that can survive these days.
Book seller comparison website www.booko.com.au will search all available bookshops for the book you want so you can get the best price, and avoid certain sites if you wish.
No worries! They don't seem to advertise so I try to tell everyone about it who I think might get some value from it. It's especially awesome for searching for rare books; I have bought out-of-print textbooks on niche topics from small town bookstores in the US, for example. Would never have found them otherwise.
I pre-ordered Something is Killing the Children and it still hasn't shipped since it released on the 21st of May. Hopefully I get my copy and it doesn't collapse.
Unfortunately, I don't know if anyone can really match the logistics potential of amazon. They're basically a logistics company masquerading as a marketplace as the logistics part of it is way more impressive than the quality of the market.
It's pretty insane that I can order something on amazon at 10 pm and at 7 am it's waiting for me in the lobby. If the option is that or waiting two months, I'm taking the 9 hour delivery.
The problem now is that the second hand book market has been corrupted by the worst form of greed that you can ever imagine.
People are just putting ridiculous prices on any old book regardless of its age, worth or using any common sense to justify the prices that they asking.
In many cases its 300 to 400% markup on the original price that the book sold for. "I have it and if you want you pay this rip off price" Then when you throw in the ridiculous freight charges any shit book that you may want to read that is out of print turns into a 100 to 200 dollar buying exercise. Its just this extreme greed that has permeated into these secondhand book sites that has made the whole market and their businesses unviable.
I can well understand if book is a true rare antiquarian book but charging stupid for shit books barely 10 years or less old is a cruel joke being played on ordinary people by some very stupid and greedy people. " They dont make it anymore since last year I can rip you off" Even on places like Ebay you find people just plucking some nice juicy figure out of the air for secondhand books that's the equivalent of winning 1st division lottery the price gouging is so bad.
The stupid thing that these people dont realise is that serious readers like myself have just stopped buying because of their greed and I sincerely hope they all go out of business so that market can go back to what it was which was a 5 to 20 dollar market for good secondhand books. It does not help when the likes of ABE, Thriftybooks, Amazon and others allow this vulture price gouging on essentially worthless pieces of out of print paper. I hope more libraries go online and scan more books to teach these thief's a lesson in life.
Yes, this is so obnoxious. A lot of specialty subject books are more expensive than most, so I do expect to pay more for those books even when second hand, but some of them I could probably find new at the same price. I don't know why anyone thinks their used book has appreciated in value.
[Blackwells](https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/home) has been decent since Amazon bought Bookdepository. They have free shipping and roughly similar delivery times. The range is not quite as good, and it is a bit pricier on average, but no one is urinating into a bottle on your behalf.
https://www.elysian.press/p/no-one-buys-books
This is an overview into the problems with bookselling, publishers, and the *extremely* lopsided nature of what geta published, and why.
IMO: E-publishing and e-books offer much more.interesting marketplace over any physical, due to the dynamics of selection in a physical market.
See I don’t get the problem people have with Amazon - I order my books there because they’re fast, reliable and they give me options for versions like hard cover/paperback, different cover options. I use to love going in to book stores but if you can’t offer me options, but also want to charge me a premium why should I shop there. Either get cheap or get good, it can’t be neither.
The problem with Amazon is the refuse to pay minimum wage and all the profits go toward a phallic looking rocket ship.
If his staff were paid properly then people wouldn't have a problem with his personal spending.
And it's hard for legitimate Australian companies to compete against someone who doesn't play by the rules.
You can’t ‘refuse to pay minimum wage’ lol.
Also you’re saying ‘his’ staff, I guess you mean Bezos who hasn’t been in charge of Amazon for quite some time.
[https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/amazon-australia-denies-paying-workers-10-a-day-rejects-safety-criticism/news-story/395744a310b6555263aaa5b3769949c2](https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/amazon-australia-denies-paying-workers-10-a-day-rejects-safety-criticism/news-story/395744a310b6555263aaa5b3769949c2)
You can pay less if you make them "Sub contractors".
But this clearly says they were paid $108 for a 4 hour block ($27 per hour). Not the best money in the world but not bad for driving around dropping off packages.
For me they limit what books you can get by regions, I see people say buy this or that on amazing yet when I'm logged in the book doesn't show for me. This has happened quite a few times that I don't use amazon anymore.
If your wondering what books well I like to read gamebooks and many wont show when logged in from Australia.
But you can just use a different countries Amazon, there’s no restriction. I recently brought the expanse series, couldn’t find it here or even on Amazon Australia, but I got it from Amazon UK in 5 days.
I get it, but I don’t like it. You would think being a reader I would be more patient and be able to wait for a book to come in but when they are %20 more and a month away, I end up going with Amazon also for the price and sometimes next day delivery. 🚚
Movie not out on the same day as overseas. Movie not available on streaming services. Price of streaming service increase: *that's why we pirate. sailing the high seas. Arrrr*.
News article behind paywall: *copy/paste the text please. 12-foot ladder please*
Buy book from Amazon: *no, that's bad, because…*.
Reddit: such noble. many qualms. wow.
I came here to write the same thing. I was happy to wait 2 - 3 weeks but when it got to 5 weeks I asked them where it was only to be told it wouldn’t be in stock for another 6 weeks.
I asked for a refund so I could purchase it elsewhere, it took them 3 weeks to respond.
I had the same thing happen with a book that I needed by a precise date, so emailed them to cancel explaining why and ordered it from somewhere else.
Lo and behold, they didn’t respond straight away but the book miraculously turned up 2 days later followed by an email saying they could no longer cancel the order as it had been now processed. Ended up with 2 copies as the other (alternative provider’s) order came on the same day.
They used to be really good and so I had wondered about what was happening with them over there.
I think they just get fucked by the publishers because it's outside their control. I waited months for something before finding out it wouldn't get a reprint after all, and they gave me a refund. A more recent one, I purchased the first and second books in a series, with the same ETA; the first one arrived and it was weeks before they finally got in touch to say the second book was being reprinted and would be months away, but I could cancel if I didn't want to wait.
Got the ebook five minutes later, for about 20% of the price. Kind of sucks because I wanted the whole series as books, and I wanted to support the business. They just can't compete, though.
Their shipping times have blown out in the last few months. Maybe something to do with not holding as much inventory or changing shippers to cheaper options. Really sad. I enjoy booktopia and buy often from them.
Well there's the answer. I was happy ordering books through them, but the last one I wanted I was going to have to wait for over a month! No thanks. Found it on ebay. Had it in my hands 2 days later. If anyone from Booktopia is reading this, if your resume isn't polished and sent out by this afternoon, it should be.
Quick comparison.
Book is Caledonian Road. Literally on the homepage of Booktopia as their third best selling book. They are promoting this book on the very valuable space that is their homepage. It is $41 + $10 shipping and 30-35 business days delivery. It's $35 on Amazon, and will be delivered in 2 days for free, they'll even deliver on weekends.
They have 130,000 followers on Facebook and their post for their book of the month got...4 likes. They have 61,000 followers on Instagram and their book of the month post got 44 likes and 0 comments. Tik Tok is massive for books and they've posted 4 times in the last 3 weeks for a total of 8,500 views.
How can anyone be surprised they're failing?
IIRC from my publishing class the current book market is not great (book sales are still on the decline) but it's not horrible. Publishers are still having healthy profits so it's definitely something going on on the distributor's side. I think it's a case of rising costs & competition from other retailers.
I assume it a mix of things.
Homes are getting smaller so we can't get as much stuff. I have nowhere to put books so I stopped buying.
Higher cost of living everywhere means people don't have the spare money to spend on hobbies like reading. Many are probably going the digital route to save money or to be more "green".
Global warming is affecting food crops so I'd assume it's affecting tree plantations also. I'd say books are normally printed on virgin paper to not affect the print quality.
Digital media is so accessible that reading has probably become less popular now.
Storage is actually a pretty good point. I used to get most if not all my books from booktopia, but I haven't bought anything in nearly 2 years. My bookshelf has been taken over by my kids books, and my books are in a bunch of storage containers on our balcony
Likewise. Love reading but simply no room for keeping physical books anymore.
Can’t do the e reader thing.
Pro tip. Use library website, find interesting books and reserve them. The book search covers all libraries in your council and they will bring the book to your local library.
Much greater selection that way. If you keep reserving you never run out of books. Much better than going into the library and relying on what is available just at that library on the day.
Yep libraries are coming back in to their own now. We do the same by finding a bunch and going on reserve lists. Though authors need books to sell otherwise we won't have books so it's a worrying trend.
My understanding is authors do get paid per library loan. Not the same as a book purchase but better than nothing.
Fiction writing is like the music business. A small top tier of authors who make huge bank.
Everyone else….peanuts.
>My understanding is authors do get paid per library loan
Nope. Officially zero. We can, however, apply for a grant from the Commonwealth "as compensation". [https://lendingrights.arts.gov.au/](https://lendingrights.arts.gov.au/)
One year I got $146, last round zero even though I had more books out for that round.
I refuse to buy from Amazon or Robinson's. It's been truly tragic watching the options dwindle - I'd better pay a visit to the independent bookshop/cafe near me...
I think someone posted a link elsewhere in the thread but basically the owner is a bigoted POS and I'd rather not support her after the things she's said.
If you have to "consider" losing 50 staff, and you're borrowing $1m at 18% and want to pay directors in shares ... and you sell books? Game over. Just stop now. Sorry people.
The book market is a shitty business.
Blackwell's is another option and has free shipping to Aus. Also buying secondhand if you don't mind that - stores like Betterworld books, Abebooks (owned by Amazon I believe) are worth checking out especially for harder to find books.
She's one of the worst people I've had the misfortune of dealing with personally lol
I was not at all shocked when I started seeing the controversy about her published in the media.
I went to order some stuff off Booktopia a week ago and both books I wanted had expectations of shipping in 50+ days. Both were pretty current releases so it shouldn’t have been a back order issue.
I don’t know what’s going on with them but they’re hardly offering great customer service.
I miss Book Depository.
Mostly the owner. She's an absolute terror of a human being. If you google her you can probably find some of the comments she's made.
I've unfortunately had the displeasure of dealing with her. I don't think I've met a more horrid, out of touch person.
/u/kamoylan, here is the controversy from earlier this year: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-04/robinsons-bookshop-owners-comments-cultural-clout-booksellers/103420882
I prefer World Of Books, mostly 2nd hand books but you can get them like new pretty easily and usually a lot cheaper than elsewhere. Booktopia can be good but I notice that it's usually a more expensive option anyway.
That sucks. I just ordered a book from there it won't arrive until halfway through July. Something's been up for a while with their postage times. But where else would I order books from? Feels like everything is being condensed into the huge megacorps like Amazon and I worry that pretty soon we'll have no real choice but to support the megacorps, if they're the only businesses that can survive these days.
Book seller comparison website www.booko.com.au will search all available bookshops for the book you want so you can get the best price, and avoid certain sites if you wish.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing this!
No worries! They don't seem to advertise so I try to tell everyone about it who I think might get some value from it. It's especially awesome for searching for rare books; I have bought out-of-print textbooks on niche topics from small town bookstores in the US, for example. Would never have found them otherwise.
I pre-ordered Something is Killing the Children and it still hasn't shipped since it released on the 21st of May. Hopefully I get my copy and it doesn't collapse.
There’s still QBD, Dymocks and The Nile.
Unfortunately, I don't know if anyone can really match the logistics potential of amazon. They're basically a logistics company masquerading as a marketplace as the logistics part of it is way more impressive than the quality of the market. It's pretty insane that I can order something on amazon at 10 pm and at 7 am it's waiting for me in the lobby. If the option is that or waiting two months, I'm taking the 9 hour delivery.
I'm the opposite. I'll wait two months or pay a premium to avoid giving money to Bezos if I can at all help it.
Exactly. People need to be Paitent, we’ve become waaay to accustomed to this instant convenience. It’s killing us.
I will never use Amazon unless it's the only shop left in the world. Then maybe.
The problem now is that the second hand book market has been corrupted by the worst form of greed that you can ever imagine. People are just putting ridiculous prices on any old book regardless of its age, worth or using any common sense to justify the prices that they asking. In many cases its 300 to 400% markup on the original price that the book sold for. "I have it and if you want you pay this rip off price" Then when you throw in the ridiculous freight charges any shit book that you may want to read that is out of print turns into a 100 to 200 dollar buying exercise. Its just this extreme greed that has permeated into these secondhand book sites that has made the whole market and their businesses unviable. I can well understand if book is a true rare antiquarian book but charging stupid for shit books barely 10 years or less old is a cruel joke being played on ordinary people by some very stupid and greedy people. " They dont make it anymore since last year I can rip you off" Even on places like Ebay you find people just plucking some nice juicy figure out of the air for secondhand books that's the equivalent of winning 1st division lottery the price gouging is so bad. The stupid thing that these people dont realise is that serious readers like myself have just stopped buying because of their greed and I sincerely hope they all go out of business so that market can go back to what it was which was a 5 to 20 dollar market for good secondhand books. It does not help when the likes of ABE, Thriftybooks, Amazon and others allow this vulture price gouging on essentially worthless pieces of out of print paper. I hope more libraries go online and scan more books to teach these thief's a lesson in life.
Yes, this is so obnoxious. A lot of specialty subject books are more expensive than most, so I do expect to pay more for those books even when second hand, but some of them I could probably find new at the same price. I don't know why anyone thinks their used book has appreciated in value.
[Blackwells](https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/home) has been decent since Amazon bought Bookdepository. They have free shipping and roughly similar delivery times. The range is not quite as good, and it is a bit pricier on average, but no one is urinating into a bottle on your behalf.
>But where else would I order books from? Like; a bookshop?
https://www.elysian.press/p/no-one-buys-books This is an overview into the problems with bookselling, publishers, and the *extremely* lopsided nature of what geta published, and why. IMO: E-publishing and e-books offer much more.interesting marketplace over any physical, due to the dynamics of selection in a physical market.
I've found www.thenile.com.au to be competitive in pricing with Booktopia
See I don’t get the problem people have with Amazon - I order my books there because they’re fast, reliable and they give me options for versions like hard cover/paperback, different cover options. I use to love going in to book stores but if you can’t offer me options, but also want to charge me a premium why should I shop there. Either get cheap or get good, it can’t be neither.
The problem with Amazon is the refuse to pay minimum wage and all the profits go toward a phallic looking rocket ship. If his staff were paid properly then people wouldn't have a problem with his personal spending. And it's hard for legitimate Australian companies to compete against someone who doesn't play by the rules.
You can’t ‘refuse to pay minimum wage’ lol. Also you’re saying ‘his’ staff, I guess you mean Bezos who hasn’t been in charge of Amazon for quite some time.
[https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/amazon-australia-denies-paying-workers-10-a-day-rejects-safety-criticism/news-story/395744a310b6555263aaa5b3769949c2](https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/amazon-australia-denies-paying-workers-10-a-day-rejects-safety-criticism/news-story/395744a310b6555263aaa5b3769949c2) You can pay less if you make them "Sub contractors".
But this clearly says they were paid $108 for a 4 hour block ($27 per hour). Not the best money in the world but not bad for driving around dropping off packages.
That was before expense like fuel e.t.c Once the expenses were taken out the drivers were left with around $10.
Amazon as a company is evil.
Most companies are evil.
Yeah, yeah; no ethical consumption under capitalism.
For me they limit what books you can get by regions, I see people say buy this or that on amazing yet when I'm logged in the book doesn't show for me. This has happened quite a few times that I don't use amazon anymore. If your wondering what books well I like to read gamebooks and many wont show when logged in from Australia.
But you can just use a different countries Amazon, there’s no restriction. I recently brought the expanse series, couldn’t find it here or even on Amazon Australia, but I got it from Amazon UK in 5 days.
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But why does every other online bookstore sell it to me?
I get it, but I don’t like it. You would think being a reader I would be more patient and be able to wait for a book to come in but when they are %20 more and a month away, I end up going with Amazon also for the price and sometimes next day delivery. 🚚
Movie not out on the same day as overseas. Movie not available on streaming services. Price of streaming service increase: *that's why we pirate. sailing the high seas. Arrrr*. News article behind paywall: *copy/paste the text please. 12-foot ladder please* Buy book from Amazon: *no, that's bad, because…*. Reddit: such noble. many qualms. wow.
Last time I tried to order a book from them they went from 2-3 weeks to months of backorder.
This just happened to me with my last delivery also.
I came here to write the same thing. I was happy to wait 2 - 3 weeks but when it got to 5 weeks I asked them where it was only to be told it wouldn’t be in stock for another 6 weeks. I asked for a refund so I could purchase it elsewhere, it took them 3 weeks to respond.
I had the same thing happen with a book that I needed by a precise date, so emailed them to cancel explaining why and ordered it from somewhere else. Lo and behold, they didn’t respond straight away but the book miraculously turned up 2 days later followed by an email saying they could no longer cancel the order as it had been now processed. Ended up with 2 copies as the other (alternative provider’s) order came on the same day. They used to be really good and so I had wondered about what was happening with them over there.
Agree! I had used them a few times prior and they were pretty good!
I think they just get fucked by the publishers because it's outside their control. I waited months for something before finding out it wouldn't get a reprint after all, and they gave me a refund. A more recent one, I purchased the first and second books in a series, with the same ETA; the first one arrived and it was weeks before they finally got in touch to say the second book was being reprinted and would be months away, but I could cancel if I didn't want to wait. Got the ebook five minutes later, for about 20% of the price. Kind of sucks because I wanted the whole series as books, and I wanted to support the business. They just can't compete, though.
Their shipping times have blown out in the last few months. Maybe something to do with not holding as much inventory or changing shippers to cheaper options. Really sad. I enjoy booktopia and buy often from them.
Can confirm they changed shippers as I worked for the logistics provider all through COVID. We lost the contract just back in October 2023.
Well there's the answer. I was happy ordering books through them, but the last one I wanted I was going to have to wait for over a month! No thanks. Found it on ebay. Had it in my hands 2 days later. If anyone from Booktopia is reading this, if your resume isn't polished and sent out by this afternoon, it should be.
It still burns me that Borders was fucked over and forced to shut down.
Quick comparison. Book is Caledonian Road. Literally on the homepage of Booktopia as their third best selling book. They are promoting this book on the very valuable space that is their homepage. It is $41 + $10 shipping and 30-35 business days delivery. It's $35 on Amazon, and will be delivered in 2 days for free, they'll even deliver on weekends. They have 130,000 followers on Facebook and their post for their book of the month got...4 likes. They have 61,000 followers on Instagram and their book of the month post got 44 likes and 0 comments. Tik Tok is massive for books and they've posted 4 times in the last 3 weeks for a total of 8,500 views. How can anyone be surprised they're failing?
The Book Depository and now Booktopia? Surely it can’t be a dying market. Is it the rising costs that are killing the industry?
IIRC from my publishing class the current book market is not great (book sales are still on the decline) but it's not horrible. Publishers are still having healthy profits so it's definitely something going on on the distributor's side. I think it's a case of rising costs & competition from other retailers.
I assume it a mix of things. Homes are getting smaller so we can't get as much stuff. I have nowhere to put books so I stopped buying. Higher cost of living everywhere means people don't have the spare money to spend on hobbies like reading. Many are probably going the digital route to save money or to be more "green". Global warming is affecting food crops so I'd assume it's affecting tree plantations also. I'd say books are normally printed on virgin paper to not affect the print quality. Digital media is so accessible that reading has probably become less popular now.
Storage is actually a pretty good point. I used to get most if not all my books from booktopia, but I haven't bought anything in nearly 2 years. My bookshelf has been taken over by my kids books, and my books are in a bunch of storage containers on our balcony
Likewise. Love reading but simply no room for keeping physical books anymore. Can’t do the e reader thing. Pro tip. Use library website, find interesting books and reserve them. The book search covers all libraries in your council and they will bring the book to your local library. Much greater selection that way. If you keep reserving you never run out of books. Much better than going into the library and relying on what is available just at that library on the day.
Yep libraries are coming back in to their own now. We do the same by finding a bunch and going on reserve lists. Though authors need books to sell otherwise we won't have books so it's a worrying trend.
My understanding is authors do get paid per library loan. Not the same as a book purchase but better than nothing. Fiction writing is like the music business. A small top tier of authors who make huge bank. Everyone else….peanuts.
>My understanding is authors do get paid per library loan Nope. Officially zero. We can, however, apply for a grant from the Commonwealth "as compensation". [https://lendingrights.arts.gov.au/](https://lendingrights.arts.gov.au/) One year I got $146, last round zero even though I had more books out for that round.
Being able to reserve books through the library has been a godsend for me!
I rarely buy books these days, between CoL and living in a sharehouse I just can't have the physical collection that I would like.
Book depository was already owned by Amazon for several years.
https://www.elysian.press/p/no-one-buys-books
I refuse to buy from Amazon or Robinson's. It's been truly tragic watching the options dwindle - I'd better pay a visit to the independent bookshop/cafe near me...
What’s wrong with Robinsons?
I think someone posted a link elsewhere in the thread but basically the owner is a bigoted POS and I'd rather not support her after the things she's said.
If you have to "consider" losing 50 staff, and you're borrowing $1m at 18% and want to pay directors in shares ... and you sell books? Game over. Just stop now. Sorry people. The book market is a shitty business.
Sounds insolvent to me
Man i got a stack of things preordered through them
Me too 😭
Dang it all, I always went out of my way to support them!
Oh man this is so sad, I love ordering from them. It’s where I get all my special editions and signed copies from.
Blackwell's is another option and has free shipping to Aus. Also buying secondhand if you don't mind that - stores like Betterworld books, Abebooks (owned by Amazon I believe) are worth checking out especially for harder to find books.
Please don’t resort to buying from the piece of shit that owns Robinsons, no matter how concentrated the book market becomes.
My boyfriend wanted to go there on the weekend and I was like we are not doing that white power shit babe get outta there we’re going to dymocks
Dymocks is a part of my childhood 🥺
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Fun fact: there are plenty of books with white characters on the cover and you have a persecution complex.
She's one of the worst people I've had the misfortune of dealing with personally lol I was not at all shocked when I started seeing the controversy about her published in the media.
Yeap. Literally better spending with Amazon, and thats a horrible sentance to type.
I went to order some stuff off Booktopia a week ago and both books I wanted had expectations of shipping in 50+ days. Both were pretty current releases so it shouldn’t have been a back order issue. I don’t know what’s going on with them but they’re hardly offering great customer service. I miss Book Depository.
I'm seeing comments disparaging Robinson's. Why the hate and how do they compare to Amazon?
Mostly the owner. She's an absolute terror of a human being. If you google her you can probably find some of the comments she's made. I've unfortunately had the displeasure of dealing with her. I don't think I've met a more horrid, out of touch person.
/u/kamoylan, here is the controversy from earlier this year: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-04/robinsons-bookshop-owners-comments-cultural-clout-booksellers/103420882
Thank you for the link.
Thank-you for the explanation.
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Such a weird shitty way to frame a question. Are you her or something?
Actually, I'm definitely not answering that question haha not at all subtle.
Oh shit.. I have a $400 gift voucher from them!
What happened to them to cause this?
https://www.elysian.press/p/no-one-buys-books
I prefer World Of Books, mostly 2nd hand books but you can get them like new pretty easily and usually a lot cheaper than elsewhere. Booktopia can be good but I notice that it's usually a more expensive option anyway.
They're toast.
What happens with preorders once they go into administration
If the authors dead, just torrent it. I downloaded 8k books in one torrent. These are fake jobs that don't need to be done. Let it fail.