Its like randomly stopping a conversation to tell them the exact time for no reason. Its like no shit, the sky is blue. Shit happens. Its trite to the person saying it and just a reminder of trauma to people that have it
>Its like randomly stopping a conversation to tell them the exact time for no reason. Its like no shit, the sky is blue. Shit happens. Its trite to the person saying it and just a reminder of trauma to people that have it
Yeah, I totally agree with you
You see it as a reminder of trauma, I see it as a reminder of triumph after trauma. When people say it to me I am reminded of trauma that I have experienced, and then think of where I am now and how it positively shaped me. When something bad happens there is no use dwelling on it and stewing in negative emotions. Think of the positives, move on and strive for a better life. Everyone is different so the feeling is personal, I don't think that you can say your way is the best and that no one should say it because it's offensive, same as I wouldn't say that you are wrong for not appreciating it the way I mean it or think of it.
My fiance is still waiting for the triumph after being molested her entire child hood. Not to mention having a spin shaped like a J hook because doctors didn't really examine a baby that had a "dislocated hip".
Sorry, u/Nanocyborgasm – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
> **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1).
If you would like to appeal, [**you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal%20Nanocyborgasm&message=Nanocyborgasm%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1ciwu3k/-/l2cfxae/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
Damn you like it even less than I do. I'm a cynic so I like where you're going with this, “things happen the way God wants them to.” when I talk to these types I'll throw in "inshallah" at the end of a sentence to show them how it feels
Sorry, u/BreadfruitSouth342 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
> **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1).
If you would like to appeal, [**you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal%20BreadfruitSouth342&message=BreadfruitSouth342%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1ciwu3k/-/l2cph3r/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
No one should say this ever, because it's not what they mean.
Yes, everything has a cause, but that comes before the event (the thing if you will) -- and you could say that that is the reason it happened. "You got wet because you went out in a rain shower without an umbrella" is an example.
What people tend to mean is that some lesson that you might learn or some subsequent development is the *purpose* of the event. If you were to say "Everything happens for a reason" to someone who lost a relative in a freak accident or whose relationship ended due to infidelity, then you are saying "this bad thing happened for you to learn from it." It attempts to make the universe seem less randomly cruel, but at best is a screwy sense of causality. At worst it suggests the universe or God has it out for us.
>No, I doubt when someone says this, they mean that the reason is it is a learning experience. They instead think this thing happens for a reason which is not clear at all yet.
A colleague a few years ago lost a relative to cancer. Someone posted on Facebook that "Everything happens for a reason. God has a plan." A friend of mine was fond of saying "Everything happens for a reason" as though what just happened would have some silver lining down the road -- that the cause of the current event would be revealed by the good fortune to come; for example, if I hadn't met my narcissistic now-ex-wife, I wouldn't have gotten my wonderful dog, so the dog was the purpose of meeting her.
Could sometimes people mean "well, we don't know the cause of this yet, but eventually something that has already happened will be identified"? Sure, I guess. But it's not the common usage in my experience.
>this way of looking at causality goes all the way back to Aristotle, and was taken for granted for 2000 years by pagans and Christians and secularists
They believed all sorts of screwy things regarding causality 2000 years ago and even more recently. They thought rotting meat generated maggots on their own. They believed in humors. They believed in phlogiston. They thought cleanliness caused disease. I will agree that screwy understandings of causality have a long history, but *argumentum ad antiquitatem* is not a strong ground for preserving those understandings.
>please note that the *reason* that something happens is not equivalent to the *purpose* of it.
Yes, that was my point: people mean *purpose* when they say *reason*. I'm critiquing that.
You're assuming their intentions or that they've ever given any thought towards the difference between purpose and reason. When some people say it they will follow it up with "god has a plan" the reason is god. Some people say it because they believe life trauma is experience and you'll benefit from that, others say it because they think you should look always try and find some positives that result from terrible situation.
My point is that its rude to say, theres a time and a place for everything and the place to say everything happens for a reason is in your head where other people can't hear it.
A few times the people saying it to me have gone off on a story about "Bad thing happens" and then "New door opens, works out in the end". I totally get it, its a great way to look at lifes obstacles and to try and always see the positives or to work towards something. I like your explanation of what it means more but I've never heard someone in the wild phrase it in this way, its always in a good comes after the bad sort of light. "If I never got in that car crash, I would have never met this person". And any time I hear it thats what I think of, look for the positives from this awful situation. If you knew someone just lost a child you wouldn't say this to them, and my point is that you have no idea what someones going through and no matter what your intentions or weird life stories are its not ever appropriate to say to strangers
> "Bad thing happens" and then "New door opens, works out in the end"
IMO there is nothing a person could say to be more demeaning and dismissive to another person. Saying something like that nearly falls in the "get punched in the face" (eVeRyThInG hApPeNs fOr A rEaSoN) category of disrespectful. If someone tries to shoehorn their religion into the conversation at that point they are absolutely dead to me for using someone's misfortune to push an agenda
>"If I never got in that car crash, I would have never met this person"
That puts future events ahead of past events. Its magical thinking. Dismissive of observable reality. Completely fucking stupid
Well, you’d be surprised. I remember when Justin Bieber got flak for giving the “everything happens for a reason” response after being told that some fetuses, sought to be aborted by their mothers, occur because of rape or incest.
Totally get where you're coming from—it can be really frustrating to hear "everything happens for a reason" when you're dealing with tough stuff. People often say this trying to offer some comfort, kind of like throwing a lifeline in a conversation when they’re not sure what else to say.
It’s sort of a cultural go-to phrase for some, deeply rooted in how they’ve learned to respond to distress. They might not realize it doesn’t always land right, especially if it's helped them in their tough times. It’s like, if it works for them, they hope it might help others too, you know?
Sometimes, I think people use it as a way to open up a deeper conversation about life’s ups and downs, hoping to find a common ground on a philosophical level. They might really believe that adversities are part of a bigger picture or a personal growth journey and want to share that perspective, thinking it could offer some solace.
Of course, there’s also a huge difference between what someone intends by saying it and how it actually impacts the person hearing it. They might be aiming to comfort, not to trivialize the pain or complexity of your experiences. It’s tricky—knowing that the phrase is well-meant might help a bit, but it doesn’t necessarily change how it makes you feel when you hear it.
"Of course, there’s also a huge difference between what someone intends by saying it and how it actually impacts the person hearing it. They might be aiming to comfort, not to trivialize the pain or complexity of your experiences. It’s tricky—knowing that the phrase is well-meant might help a bit, but it doesn’t necessarily change how it makes you feel when you hear it."
I just don't get how you could give it 5 seconds of thought and think, hey maybe this person got raped, falsely imprisoned for years, lost children to freak accidents, etc. Theres countless tragedies a stranger could have been through and saying it not only reminds them of it but absolutely does trivialize it. I've just been giving it some thought and it just doesnt make sense that its normal for people to say the phrase to people they don't know much about.
I think you’re hitting on a really crucial point about sensitivity and awareness. It’s true, a lot of times, people don’t pause to consider the depth of someone else's experiences before they speak. That phrase can indeed come off as incredibly tone-deaf if it’s tossed out without understanding the gravity of what someone might have gone through.
Saying "everything happens for a reason" to someone who has endured profound losses or injustices can feel like their pain is being minimized or neatly categorized, which is the last thing they need. It’s a reminder that sometimes, what’s intended as a comforting statement can actually reopen wounds or imply that unspeakable traumas serve some greater purpose, which can be a harsh and even cruel suggestion.
This highlights a bigger issue about the kind of emotional literacy we need in our interactions—taking that moment to think about who we’re speaking to and what they might have gone through. Perhaps we need to shift towards asking more about what someone needs in their moment of distress or simply offering an ear without any assumptions or platitudes. It's about matching our intentions with the actual impact of our words, and sometimes, the best support is just being there and listening.
What I’ve learned is that when tragedy happens, everyone wants to say the “magic words” to make things right. But there are none, and so people go with what they feel makes sense, or what would help them.
"What I’ve learned is that when tragedy happens, everyone wants to say the “magic words” to make things right." Not sure the exact quote but its something along the lines of "Sometimes people don't want a solution, they just want to be understood". And I really hope I'm not quoting batman with that but I think people would benefit from watching more tragedies like the deer hunter or ordinary people so they have some reference for low points that other people might have been at. I would hope people who are saying it are naïve and fortunately have never seen someone close to them go through something terrible.
On the niavety note, Interestingly enough, in my anecdotal experience, it's the people who've gone through the worst wringer imaginable that end up using the line the most. Which unfortunately can have the same accidental trivializing effect. When you're going through something incredibly difficult, you don't have to be reminded that the person who's supposed to be comforting you had it worse. It's never their intention to do so - but it can come off as patronizing.
Philosophically speaking, I genuinely believe that "everything happens for a reason" - even the terrible tragedies so dark I can't personally see the light at the end of the tunnel. But most people in the thick of that tragedy don't need to hear that, it's not productive in their healing at all. It just doesn't need to be said.
It doesn't always trivialize it. Saying it to someone who has lost someone is saying "at least they enjoyed the life they had, and you can remember them as they lived. And that they aren't suffering anymore" I never cried when I lost my grandad, he wasn't ill, he fell down the stairs and hit his head on a sideboard in the hall, so it wasn't expected but he missed my gran so he would have been happy to be reunited with her and other relatives, he was a proud man so it was good he passed before he got ill and too old as that would have saddened him, I chose to look at the positive because I loved him, and he would have been disappointed in me if I just sat and moped about. And it isn't always as simple as meaning look on the brightside, it's a way of saying you can use the negative experience to make you stronger and make your future better or you can fester in negativity.
I guess I should have elaborated on the "know". Im not meeting random people and trauma dumping them. I meant know as in close acquaintances that have more of an understanding than say a coworker or person you deal with on occasion does. My point still stands for strangers though, If I go and buy coffee and they ask how I'm doing I might say its been a rough week or something along those lines. Thats not a reason try and remind me that everything happens for a reason
> If I go and buy coffee and they ask how I'm doing I might say its been a rough week
Yeah, they're just being polite in asking, and being polite in saying "everything happens for a reason" to extricate themselves from a conversation with you about your rough week. It's just one of those quirks of our basic communication model.
"Everything happens for a reason" is a well-known saying. Like, it's not a unique thought that the person is having in the moment for the very first time. So, someone is invoking it and all its associations *rather than* saying precisely what they mean. Depending on the way that they say it, someone might mean one of two things:
1. I genuinely believe that in the future you will look back on this and be able to put it in some larger, more positive context. For example, you might learn some important lesson. I trust that this difficult situation will pass, or at least I hope it will.
2. I do not like the negative tone of our conversation, and I would like to remind you that there are more positive frameworks for the difficult situation you're describing.
I think these *can be* perfectly OK things to communicate to someone either, "Hey, it'll be OK" or "Oh, let's look on the bright side and talk about something nicer." Of course sometimes they would be inappropriate things to say, like in the situation you describe where someone is dying of cancer.
But your stated view is that people should never say this. And that just can't be true. The saying has survived this long because it's good and useful in lots of contexts.
Just because something has [survived long](https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSyy08rNQ7FQNb2YX9DbMHdHbTksBool5M2OxS9VAY5gYlApthM) doesn't mean its good. Useful maybe in some situations but good? That's relative.
In the case of
1. No
2. Understandable if you don't really know someone, try to keep things positive. But if someone is visibly not in the best spirits is it right to try and force their mood to change? I'd argue that at any point in a conversation if you want to "lighten the mood" you are trying to force their mood to change, if you want to improve your relationship with the person then you should hear them out instead of hitting them with a Sesame street level quote, and if you don't want them to open up to you and keep them at a distance then I guess its a tool in that sense. Which goes back to my point of it being rude to say, being rude is fine if you're trying to end a conversation.
I think we're missing some context. Do you mind sharing some details about the situation where people say this *to you*?
Because, again, I don't think any of us are saying that it's always a good, OK thing to say. But your post is that people should *never* say it, and I think my post still highlights *possible* situations where it's OK.
In general... people just say things! They don't think too hard about the specific meaning. People want to connect, to make conversation. I know you will say that this is a *counterproductive* way to make connection. But so is taking people very literally. So, please, I'm curious about your response to my first question.
Hell, don't even say that garbage line to people you DO know!
If everything happens for a reason then none of the reasons matter. The reasons are out our hands, determinism takes over! Woohoo! Nothing is my fault!
Most people I hear say this shit are avoiding personal guilt for something, and are often saying it to the person they've hurt, which makes things worse.
Its awful. There are deeper phrases that can still be rude but are at least more thoughtful like "try to find meaning in hardship" but everything happens for a reason is just so fucking useless I don't get how it became common
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
> **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1).
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. **Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.**
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
You’re right. It’s a dumb thing to say. I truly believe, for myself, that everything happens for a reason, but that is because of my religious beliefs. Let me tell you though, I don’t want anyone else telling me this, because I haven’t asked them
For spiritual guidance.
Some people cannot comfort other people or sit with their grief, pain, suffering. They have to get the other person to stop feeling a way that makes themselves uncomfortable. They aren’t trying to comfort the grieving or suffering person, they’re trying to get them to shut up for their own peace of mind. A much better way to talk to someone in this place is to simply say “I am so sorry” or “ you don’t choose this and it must feel so out of control” etc.
There are a million ways to comfort people and none of them involved spiritual bypassing.
In that vein, if the phrase came from a religious person with religious intent, you’re just saying god has a reason for something worse than death at a young age right when they were supposed to start their lives and the nature of that disease causing a prolonged financial ruin for the entire family. It’s something that’s fine to think in your head but saying it out loud is cruel to the wrong person
My own understanding of my life
Course, and the things that have happened to me, is my own understanding. It is comforting to me in a sense, but it is more of a profound trust.
Because I have this trust, however, after years and year of religious study, prayer etc, doesn’t mean that it will comfort someone else. When I comfort people, I try to allow them to feel exactly how they feel without judgment. Telling them how they should feel or think is a judgment because it’s saying they’re wrong in their thinking or beliefs.
This is why saying “everything happens for a reason” is so dismissive and hurtful. It’s basically saying “you should stop talking about this or feeling this. STOP FEELING”
I wouldn’t think that God has a reason for that. I just believe He allows us complete free will, so that includes the actions of horrible people. I’ve never once thought “Oh well God had a plan there! Derp, de Derp”
God also wants us to have compassion and charity for one another.
It is literally true though. Everything does happen for a reason. The reason isn't always a good one though.
What they are saying though is maybe there is a bigger picture and this is going to work for your benefit somehow.
Which has disconnect from the literal meaning of the phrase. Which if you wanted to take a lesson from would be actions have consequences. There is cause and effect, so maybe the lesson is think about what you are doing because nothing is inert there will be effects, and some of them you might not like. So maybe we should be telling everyone this.
So kids in africa get eye parasites. The reason is because they are repeatedly bitten by deerflies. Yes. There is always a reason for something happening, and I hope that it doesn't benefit me somehow. I guess in a way it has benefitted my case against this stupid phrase. There is a reason for everything yes and pointing it out is about as productive as announcing that you are about to put a hat on. Its a good talking point for some kind of philosophical discussion, not something you say offhand if you hear about someone's troubles.
Is it better to think about the reason for the eye parasites or not? The study of cause and effect can lead you to doing something about the cause. Then you can prevent the effects.
The point is if you're talking to a kid who has this eye parasite and he says to you "damn my eyes hurt" the last fucking thing you should say is that everything happens for a reason. Going around telling people that their pain might lead to a study that might help someone else is more helpful than saying that it happened for a reason.
Yeah in this instance.... but what if someone is bemoaning constant headaches and had some stupid habit of bashing their head on the wall and you enlighten them that everything happens for a reason?
lightbulb goes on and they realize there is a cause for their problem.
If you said that to someone crazy enough to do something like that theres a good chance they bash their head on yours instead of the wall. Not how real life works, if someone complains about sleep you could ask for more details to get an idea of what might be causing the problem, recommend good sleep patterns or supplementation. "Everything happens for a reason" is lazy and stupid
People shouldn't say "everything happens for a reason" full stop.
There's no empirical evidence or scientific basis to support the notion that everything happens for a predetermined reason. Many events occur due to a complex interplay of random chance, natural processes, human decisions, and external factors.
Suggesting that events like suffering, injustice, or tragedy, happen for a reason is insensitive or dismissive of the pain and hardship experienced by those affected - regardless of whether you know that person or not.
"There's no empirical evidence or scientific basis to support the notion that everything happens for a predetermined reason."
There's also no "empirical evidence or scientific basis" to support the notion that human life has any value at all. In fact, the vast majority of the population are entrenched in postmodernism and materialism and believe there is no inherent value to life and they worship death.
That's not a "whataboutism."
It's 100% on topic.
Your viewpoint is illogical and an example of cult worship.
You said:
"People shouldn't say "everything happens for a reason" full stop.
There's no empirical evidence or scientific basis to support the notion that everything happens for a predetermined reason. Many events occur due to a complex interplay of random chance, natural processes, human decisions, and external factors."
Based on this line of reasoning, people shouldn't say that humans have inherent value or that life has any worth.
Trying to use the modern day scientific establishment to pigeon hole the Cosmos in the way you do is an example of superstitious and anti-scientific cult worship.
Whataboutism: the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue.
We were talking about predetermined reason, not about human life which you *claim* has no inherent value without a predermined reason - without any evidence for that claim whatsoever - and then start blabbing about not agreeing with that being anti-scientific.
Gimme a break, if anything here is anti-scientific and smells of cult worship it's the "no unmoved mover = no values" BS.
"We were talking about predetermined reason, not about human life (having inherent value)-- "
Both of these are metaphysical statements and outside the scope of scientific materialism.
-which you claim has no inherent value without a predetermined reason"-
I never claimed this. I simply stated that within the scope of scientific materialism, there is no proof or evidence that human life has any inherent value. You are using scientific materialism to make claims that are beyond its scope.
>Both of these are metaphysical statements and outside the scope of scientific materialism.
The question of whether the universe has a cause is not outside the scope of science, and science definitely has somethign to say about morality as well (and a lot more coherent than bronze age texts)
In addition, you just tried to wedge materialism into the conversation, another whataboutism.
Enjoy your bubble.
Cause and effect is not the same as "happening for a reason". Again, there's no empirical evidence or scientific basis to support the notion that everything happens for a predetermined reason. Many events occur due to a complex interplay of random chance, natural processes, human decisions, and external factors.
1. **Quantum Tunneling**: Particles, such as electrons, can "tunnel" through potential energy barriers that would be impossible to surmount according to classical physics. The exact timing and occurrence of such tunneling events are considered inherently random.
2. **Radioactive Decay**: The decay of unstable atomic nuclei is a random process. While the decay rates follow statistical patterns, the exact timing of when a particular nucleus will decay cannot be predicted.
3. **Photon Emission**: The emission of photons by excited atoms or molecules is random. The timing and direction of photon emission cannot be precisely determined in advance.
4. **Brownian Motion**: The random motion of particles suspended in a fluid, as observed in Brownian motion, is due to collisions with molecules of the fluid. While the statistical properties of Brownian motion can be described, the exact trajectory of a single particle is unpredictable.
5. **Quantum Fluctuations**: Empty space is not truly empty according to quantum mechanics. It is filled with virtual particles popping in and out of existence due to quantum fluctuations. The timing and location of these fluctuations are considered random.
6. **Photon Absorption and Emission**: The absorption and emission of photons by atoms or molecules occur randomly. The exact timing and energy of these processes depend on probabilities governed by quantum mechanics.
7. **Noise in Electronic Devices**: In electronic circuits and devices, there is inherent noise caused by random fluctuations in electrical currents and voltages. This noise can be described statistically but is fundamentally random.
Yeah, but it's not random, we just can't predict it.
Again, not random, we just can't predict it.
Again, not random, we just can't predict it.
Again, not random, we just can't predict it.
This we don't understand, so it could or could not be random.
Again, not random, we just can't predict it.
Again, not random, we just can't predict it.
There is a difference between random, and unpredictable. Just because we can't predict it doesn't make it random, like how in medieval times they couldn't predict a dice roll, but a dice roll isn't random.
>There is a difference between random, and unpredictable
**Randomness specifically refers to a lack of pattern or predictability in events**. Random events occur without a discernible pattern, **meaning that each outcome has an equal chance of happening**.
For example, flipping a fair coin is considered a random event because the outcome (heads or tails) cannot be reliably predicted in advance.
You mean physics? It would require the use of dynamics, I'm not sure what you mean here, it's just physics? You would obviously need to know the information being used, which is why the prediction is so hard, but that doesn't make it actually random, under the same conditions the same thing would happen everytime.
I do not think you should should not trivialize other people struggles.
Personally, i don't believe in God or energy crystals, and I don't think that everything happens for a reason. I think life is filled with random chaos.
A few years ago, (embarrassingly late in my life) i learned from my father in law that i don't have to disagree with people when they say something I disagree with. I can just leave it be. I can let them be wrong. Maybe sometimes i ought to argue with them, but not always.
If somebody tells me that everything happens for a reason, i think that is childish nonsense.
>The people saying it have good intentions
I can just appreciate their good intentions and move one with my day.
The only caveat I can think of is "sometimes things happen for a bad reason".
Sometimes the thing that happens is a result of a larger (often structural) reason.
I think "everything happens for a reason" can be a secular liturgy to explain how you should respond. "Everything happens for a reason" can be a way to explain why lay-offs happen even when companies are profiting.
That's not how other people use it, so I do agree with your argument, but the open ended approach can give you some room to work with.
I've done better since I've changed my mindset.
I've stopped taking things as a personal attack to me. Now I see it as things that just HAPPEN, and they happen to affect me.
Not all of them make me feel good. That's OK. Variety. But I get to choose how I take it.
That said, I agree it's tone deaf to see someone suffering and go "it's for a reason!!" Even if you feel that way, someone suffering is the moment to express empathy.
I've learned that the saying is something someone ought to know or recognise _before_ the situation arises, because in the thick if the situation it's no help. What people need in the middle of those times is someone to be sad with them and validate their sadness and cry out "why?!" without actually caring to know the answer right now. Otherwise what it actually sounds like is "you have no reason to be sad, so stop it".
Forget science. Forget all of the b.s. EVERYONE is talking about. I don't know if "ghosts" exist but there is something out there doing sh**. Don't know what. Don't want to either. I've seen it. None of it made sense. But it was real. Whatever it was . If you only believe everything has to have a scientific answer, then you DON'T believe in God. That's all I've got to say.
I don't see why not.
It seems to have pretty good utility as a conversation killer, to placate those those who might be receptive to such an empty comment (i.e., dude is just talking *at* you, not with you), OR to pick a fight with the truly sensitive.
I'm not sure how much time you hang out in depressing watering holes, but all three have a time and a place.
Honestly, I'd take it further and say no one should say that to anyone. I can say that about my circumstances if I believe it, but I'm not telling someone else that stuff unless they introduce it themselves 😬 I'm also atheist and don't believe in karma so I'm less likely so say it anyway. I def let them take the lead on those sort of platitudes.
You got cancer because thousands of years ago, a fusion reaction happened inside that gas ball you call the sun. The energy of that fusion reaction took its sweet time snaking up to the surface, beamed out as a ray of light, which hit one of your cells just the right way to make it break in a very specific manner, and keeps making more of itself uncontrollably. And for some reason your body's mechanisms to deal with shit like this, didn't.
Everything happens because of a lot of reasons. The past shapes the present, the present shapes the future. Free will is bullshit. There is no inherent meaning in anything. Live however the fuck you want.
Well instead of finding the negative in everything and going out of my way to be as miserable as possible I take this and other platitudes in the spirit they are meant and be happy that some one took a second to Try and console me even if it's empty
But each to their own
It may not always be polite to say, but it is an axiomatic fact that every happens for a reason, at least at the macro scale. It is baked into the causal nature of the universe.
oh relax, they're just trying to be nice. Sorry it wasn't exactly what you needed to hear but it's better than everyone just ignoring each other or being intentionally rude.
>asking them to explain why kids in africa have loiasis
Odd, unnecessarily confrontational response to a benign phrase.
>If I'm having a bad day and someone says this to me
Does this really happen? Honestly, do you tell people you're having a bad day and they reply "everything happens for a reason"?
This has never happened to me and I just can't believe it's that common.
You also say people shouldn't say it to those they don't know. Well, why are you telling these people about your bad day? You know nothing about them either. Maybe they've been through it all recently and aren't interested in your trivial problem of the day.
>If someone just lost a sibling and their inheritance just doubled, yeah theres a bright side to that situation
Have you just made up this example? Of course, that's a callous and inconsiderate way to say "everything happens for a reason". But I don't think any right-thinking person would say anything close to "sorry for your loss but at least the payout was good".
Ultimately, I just don't accept people are going around using this phrase in the way you claim here.
Probably breaking a sub rule, but I can't begin to change your view because I simply don't believe there are people out there who are telling people who have just lost loved ones that "everything happens for a reason" because they are now better off financially.
Sorry, I think you've invented a person to be mad at.
Everyone should say anything they want to say. You have all the right to dislike what they say and tell them so though.
“How arrogant are you to think that you deserve to go through life with no one ever saying anything that you do not agree or don’t like?”
- Ricky Gervais
Maybe the reason they say it is that God wants to break you free of this mental model you have of Him, and is working through those who agree to do His will, to plant this seed in your mind in order to finally make you understand why suffering exists.
Sometimes the reason is epic and awesome.
But if you’re not reminded of it, you’ll live in drudgery, and you’ll never look for it.
[удалено]
Its like randomly stopping a conversation to tell them the exact time for no reason. Its like no shit, the sky is blue. Shit happens. Its trite to the person saying it and just a reminder of trauma to people that have it
>Its like randomly stopping a conversation to tell them the exact time for no reason. Its like no shit, the sky is blue. Shit happens. Its trite to the person saying it and just a reminder of trauma to people that have it Yeah, I totally agree with you
You see it as a reminder of trauma, I see it as a reminder of triumph after trauma. When people say it to me I am reminded of trauma that I have experienced, and then think of where I am now and how it positively shaped me. When something bad happens there is no use dwelling on it and stewing in negative emotions. Think of the positives, move on and strive for a better life. Everyone is different so the feeling is personal, I don't think that you can say your way is the best and that no one should say it because it's offensive, same as I wouldn't say that you are wrong for not appreciating it the way I mean it or think of it.
My fiance is still waiting for the triumph after being molested her entire child hood. Not to mention having a spin shaped like a J hook because doctors didn't really examine a baby that had a "dislocated hip".
I understand that, that's why I said it's a personal subject. 1 person may find it hurtful, someone else may find it helpful.
Sorry, u/Nanocyborgasm – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, [**you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal%20Nanocyborgasm&message=Nanocyborgasm%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1ciwu3k/-/l2cfxae/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
[удалено]
Damn you like it even less than I do. I'm a cynic so I like where you're going with this, “things happen the way God wants them to.” when I talk to these types I'll throw in "inshallah" at the end of a sentence to show them how it feels
Sorry, u/BreadfruitSouth342 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, [**you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal%20BreadfruitSouth342&message=BreadfruitSouth342%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1ciwu3k/-/l2cph3r/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
No one should say this ever, because it's not what they mean. Yes, everything has a cause, but that comes before the event (the thing if you will) -- and you could say that that is the reason it happened. "You got wet because you went out in a rain shower without an umbrella" is an example. What people tend to mean is that some lesson that you might learn or some subsequent development is the *purpose* of the event. If you were to say "Everything happens for a reason" to someone who lost a relative in a freak accident or whose relationship ended due to infidelity, then you are saying "this bad thing happened for you to learn from it." It attempts to make the universe seem less randomly cruel, but at best is a screwy sense of causality. At worst it suggests the universe or God has it out for us.
[удалено]
>No, I doubt when someone says this, they mean that the reason is it is a learning experience. They instead think this thing happens for a reason which is not clear at all yet. A colleague a few years ago lost a relative to cancer. Someone posted on Facebook that "Everything happens for a reason. God has a plan." A friend of mine was fond of saying "Everything happens for a reason" as though what just happened would have some silver lining down the road -- that the cause of the current event would be revealed by the good fortune to come; for example, if I hadn't met my narcissistic now-ex-wife, I wouldn't have gotten my wonderful dog, so the dog was the purpose of meeting her. Could sometimes people mean "well, we don't know the cause of this yet, but eventually something that has already happened will be identified"? Sure, I guess. But it's not the common usage in my experience. >this way of looking at causality goes all the way back to Aristotle, and was taken for granted for 2000 years by pagans and Christians and secularists They believed all sorts of screwy things regarding causality 2000 years ago and even more recently. They thought rotting meat generated maggots on their own. They believed in humors. They believed in phlogiston. They thought cleanliness caused disease. I will agree that screwy understandings of causality have a long history, but *argumentum ad antiquitatem* is not a strong ground for preserving those understandings. >please note that the *reason* that something happens is not equivalent to the *purpose* of it. Yes, that was my point: people mean *purpose* when they say *reason*. I'm critiquing that.
You're assuming their intentions or that they've ever given any thought towards the difference between purpose and reason. When some people say it they will follow it up with "god has a plan" the reason is god. Some people say it because they believe life trauma is experience and you'll benefit from that, others say it because they think you should look always try and find some positives that result from terrible situation. My point is that its rude to say, theres a time and a place for everything and the place to say everything happens for a reason is in your head where other people can't hear it.
A few times the people saying it to me have gone off on a story about "Bad thing happens" and then "New door opens, works out in the end". I totally get it, its a great way to look at lifes obstacles and to try and always see the positives or to work towards something. I like your explanation of what it means more but I've never heard someone in the wild phrase it in this way, its always in a good comes after the bad sort of light. "If I never got in that car crash, I would have never met this person". And any time I hear it thats what I think of, look for the positives from this awful situation. If you knew someone just lost a child you wouldn't say this to them, and my point is that you have no idea what someones going through and no matter what your intentions or weird life stories are its not ever appropriate to say to strangers
> "Bad thing happens" and then "New door opens, works out in the end" IMO there is nothing a person could say to be more demeaning and dismissive to another person. Saying something like that nearly falls in the "get punched in the face" (eVeRyThInG hApPeNs fOr A rEaSoN) category of disrespectful. If someone tries to shoehorn their religion into the conversation at that point they are absolutely dead to me for using someone's misfortune to push an agenda >"If I never got in that car crash, I would have never met this person" That puts future events ahead of past events. Its magical thinking. Dismissive of observable reality. Completely fucking stupid
Well, you’d be surprised. I remember when Justin Bieber got flak for giving the “everything happens for a reason” response after being told that some fetuses, sought to be aborted by their mothers, occur because of rape or incest.
Totally get where you're coming from—it can be really frustrating to hear "everything happens for a reason" when you're dealing with tough stuff. People often say this trying to offer some comfort, kind of like throwing a lifeline in a conversation when they’re not sure what else to say. It’s sort of a cultural go-to phrase for some, deeply rooted in how they’ve learned to respond to distress. They might not realize it doesn’t always land right, especially if it's helped them in their tough times. It’s like, if it works for them, they hope it might help others too, you know? Sometimes, I think people use it as a way to open up a deeper conversation about life’s ups and downs, hoping to find a common ground on a philosophical level. They might really believe that adversities are part of a bigger picture or a personal growth journey and want to share that perspective, thinking it could offer some solace. Of course, there’s also a huge difference between what someone intends by saying it and how it actually impacts the person hearing it. They might be aiming to comfort, not to trivialize the pain or complexity of your experiences. It’s tricky—knowing that the phrase is well-meant might help a bit, but it doesn’t necessarily change how it makes you feel when you hear it.
"Of course, there’s also a huge difference between what someone intends by saying it and how it actually impacts the person hearing it. They might be aiming to comfort, not to trivialize the pain or complexity of your experiences. It’s tricky—knowing that the phrase is well-meant might help a bit, but it doesn’t necessarily change how it makes you feel when you hear it." I just don't get how you could give it 5 seconds of thought and think, hey maybe this person got raped, falsely imprisoned for years, lost children to freak accidents, etc. Theres countless tragedies a stranger could have been through and saying it not only reminds them of it but absolutely does trivialize it. I've just been giving it some thought and it just doesnt make sense that its normal for people to say the phrase to people they don't know much about.
I think you’re hitting on a really crucial point about sensitivity and awareness. It’s true, a lot of times, people don’t pause to consider the depth of someone else's experiences before they speak. That phrase can indeed come off as incredibly tone-deaf if it’s tossed out without understanding the gravity of what someone might have gone through. Saying "everything happens for a reason" to someone who has endured profound losses or injustices can feel like their pain is being minimized or neatly categorized, which is the last thing they need. It’s a reminder that sometimes, what’s intended as a comforting statement can actually reopen wounds or imply that unspeakable traumas serve some greater purpose, which can be a harsh and even cruel suggestion. This highlights a bigger issue about the kind of emotional literacy we need in our interactions—taking that moment to think about who we’re speaking to and what they might have gone through. Perhaps we need to shift towards asking more about what someone needs in their moment of distress or simply offering an ear without any assumptions or platitudes. It's about matching our intentions with the actual impact of our words, and sometimes, the best support is just being there and listening. What I’ve learned is that when tragedy happens, everyone wants to say the “magic words” to make things right. But there are none, and so people go with what they feel makes sense, or what would help them.
"What I’ve learned is that when tragedy happens, everyone wants to say the “magic words” to make things right." Not sure the exact quote but its something along the lines of "Sometimes people don't want a solution, they just want to be understood". And I really hope I'm not quoting batman with that but I think people would benefit from watching more tragedies like the deer hunter or ordinary people so they have some reference for low points that other people might have been at. I would hope people who are saying it are naïve and fortunately have never seen someone close to them go through something terrible.
On the niavety note, Interestingly enough, in my anecdotal experience, it's the people who've gone through the worst wringer imaginable that end up using the line the most. Which unfortunately can have the same accidental trivializing effect. When you're going through something incredibly difficult, you don't have to be reminded that the person who's supposed to be comforting you had it worse. It's never their intention to do so - but it can come off as patronizing. Philosophically speaking, I genuinely believe that "everything happens for a reason" - even the terrible tragedies so dark I can't personally see the light at the end of the tunnel. But most people in the thick of that tragedy don't need to hear that, it's not productive in their healing at all. It just doesn't need to be said.
It doesn't always trivialize it. Saying it to someone who has lost someone is saying "at least they enjoyed the life they had, and you can remember them as they lived. And that they aren't suffering anymore" I never cried when I lost my grandad, he wasn't ill, he fell down the stairs and hit his head on a sideboard in the hall, so it wasn't expected but he missed my gran so he would have been happy to be reunited with her and other relatives, he was a proud man so it was good he passed before he got ill and too old as that would have saddened him, I chose to look at the positive because I loved him, and he would have been disappointed in me if I just sat and moped about. And it isn't always as simple as meaning look on the brightside, it's a way of saying you can use the negative experience to make you stronger and make your future better or you can fester in negativity.
[удалено]
I guess I should have elaborated on the "know". Im not meeting random people and trauma dumping them. I meant know as in close acquaintances that have more of an understanding than say a coworker or person you deal with on occasion does. My point still stands for strangers though, If I go and buy coffee and they ask how I'm doing I might say its been a rough week or something along those lines. Thats not a reason try and remind me that everything happens for a reason
> If I go and buy coffee and they ask how I'm doing I might say its been a rough week Yeah, they're just being polite in asking, and being polite in saying "everything happens for a reason" to extricate themselves from a conversation with you about your rough week. It's just one of those quirks of our basic communication model.
Haha you're not wrong
"Everything happens for a reason" is a well-known saying. Like, it's not a unique thought that the person is having in the moment for the very first time. So, someone is invoking it and all its associations *rather than* saying precisely what they mean. Depending on the way that they say it, someone might mean one of two things: 1. I genuinely believe that in the future you will look back on this and be able to put it in some larger, more positive context. For example, you might learn some important lesson. I trust that this difficult situation will pass, or at least I hope it will. 2. I do not like the negative tone of our conversation, and I would like to remind you that there are more positive frameworks for the difficult situation you're describing. I think these *can be* perfectly OK things to communicate to someone either, "Hey, it'll be OK" or "Oh, let's look on the bright side and talk about something nicer." Of course sometimes they would be inappropriate things to say, like in the situation you describe where someone is dying of cancer. But your stated view is that people should never say this. And that just can't be true. The saying has survived this long because it's good and useful in lots of contexts.
Just because something has [survived long](https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSyy08rNQ7FQNb2YX9DbMHdHbTksBool5M2OxS9VAY5gYlApthM) doesn't mean its good. Useful maybe in some situations but good? That's relative. In the case of 1. No 2. Understandable if you don't really know someone, try to keep things positive. But if someone is visibly not in the best spirits is it right to try and force their mood to change? I'd argue that at any point in a conversation if you want to "lighten the mood" you are trying to force their mood to change, if you want to improve your relationship with the person then you should hear them out instead of hitting them with a Sesame street level quote, and if you don't want them to open up to you and keep them at a distance then I guess its a tool in that sense. Which goes back to my point of it being rude to say, being rude is fine if you're trying to end a conversation.
I think we're missing some context. Do you mind sharing some details about the situation where people say this *to you*? Because, again, I don't think any of us are saying that it's always a good, OK thing to say. But your post is that people should *never* say it, and I think my post still highlights *possible* situations where it's OK. In general... people just say things! They don't think too hard about the specific meaning. People want to connect, to make conversation. I know you will say that this is a *counterproductive* way to make connection. But so is taking people very literally. So, please, I'm curious about your response to my first question.
Alright, I'll dm you because its not something I want out there
Hell, don't even say that garbage line to people you DO know! If everything happens for a reason then none of the reasons matter. The reasons are out our hands, determinism takes over! Woohoo! Nothing is my fault! Most people I hear say this shit are avoiding personal guilt for something, and are often saying it to the person they've hurt, which makes things worse.
Its awful. There are deeper phrases that can still be rude but are at least more thoughtful like "try to find meaning in hardship" but everything happens for a reason is just so fucking useless I don't get how it became common
[удалено]
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. **Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.** Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
Haha thank you., I have a bad habit of letting little things irritate me and I thought I might be overthinking it so I figured I'd post here
Sounds like you’re having a bad day right now..
You know its better now that I've vented about this
You’re right. It’s a dumb thing to say. I truly believe, for myself, that everything happens for a reason, but that is because of my religious beliefs. Let me tell you though, I don’t want anyone else telling me this, because I haven’t asked them For spiritual guidance. Some people cannot comfort other people or sit with their grief, pain, suffering. They have to get the other person to stop feeling a way that makes themselves uncomfortable. They aren’t trying to comfort the grieving or suffering person, they’re trying to get them to shut up for their own peace of mind. A much better way to talk to someone in this place is to simply say “I am so sorry” or “ you don’t choose this and it must feel so out of control” etc. There are a million ways to comfort people and none of them involved spiritual bypassing.
In that vein, if the phrase came from a religious person with religious intent, you’re just saying god has a reason for something worse than death at a young age right when they were supposed to start their lives and the nature of that disease causing a prolonged financial ruin for the entire family. It’s something that’s fine to think in your head but saying it out loud is cruel to the wrong person
My own understanding of my life Course, and the things that have happened to me, is my own understanding. It is comforting to me in a sense, but it is more of a profound trust. Because I have this trust, however, after years and year of religious study, prayer etc, doesn’t mean that it will comfort someone else. When I comfort people, I try to allow them to feel exactly how they feel without judgment. Telling them how they should feel or think is a judgment because it’s saying they’re wrong in their thinking or beliefs. This is why saying “everything happens for a reason” is so dismissive and hurtful. It’s basically saying “you should stop talking about this or feeling this. STOP FEELING”
I wouldn’t think that God has a reason for that. I just believe He allows us complete free will, so that includes the actions of horrible people. I’ve never once thought “Oh well God had a plan there! Derp, de Derp” God also wants us to have compassion and charity for one another.
It is literally true though. Everything does happen for a reason. The reason isn't always a good one though. What they are saying though is maybe there is a bigger picture and this is going to work for your benefit somehow. Which has disconnect from the literal meaning of the phrase. Which if you wanted to take a lesson from would be actions have consequences. There is cause and effect, so maybe the lesson is think about what you are doing because nothing is inert there will be effects, and some of them you might not like. So maybe we should be telling everyone this.
So kids in africa get eye parasites. The reason is because they are repeatedly bitten by deerflies. Yes. There is always a reason for something happening, and I hope that it doesn't benefit me somehow. I guess in a way it has benefitted my case against this stupid phrase. There is a reason for everything yes and pointing it out is about as productive as announcing that you are about to put a hat on. Its a good talking point for some kind of philosophical discussion, not something you say offhand if you hear about someone's troubles.
Is it better to think about the reason for the eye parasites or not? The study of cause and effect can lead you to doing something about the cause. Then you can prevent the effects.
The point is if you're talking to a kid who has this eye parasite and he says to you "damn my eyes hurt" the last fucking thing you should say is that everything happens for a reason. Going around telling people that their pain might lead to a study that might help someone else is more helpful than saying that it happened for a reason.
Yeah in this instance.... but what if someone is bemoaning constant headaches and had some stupid habit of bashing their head on the wall and you enlighten them that everything happens for a reason? lightbulb goes on and they realize there is a cause for their problem.
If you said that to someone crazy enough to do something like that theres a good chance they bash their head on yours instead of the wall. Not how real life works, if someone complains about sleep you could ask for more details to get an idea of what might be causing the problem, recommend good sleep patterns or supplementation. "Everything happens for a reason" is lazy and stupid
People shouldn't say "everything happens for a reason" full stop. There's no empirical evidence or scientific basis to support the notion that everything happens for a predetermined reason. Many events occur due to a complex interplay of random chance, natural processes, human decisions, and external factors. Suggesting that events like suffering, injustice, or tragedy, happen for a reason is insensitive or dismissive of the pain and hardship experienced by those affected - regardless of whether you know that person or not.
"There's no empirical evidence or scientific basis to support the notion that everything happens for a predetermined reason." There's also no "empirical evidence or scientific basis" to support the notion that human life has any value at all. In fact, the vast majority of the population are entrenched in postmodernism and materialism and believe there is no inherent value to life and they worship death.
Trying to divert attention with a whataboutism? That's not the topic of discussion.
That's not a "whataboutism." It's 100% on topic. Your viewpoint is illogical and an example of cult worship. You said: "People shouldn't say "everything happens for a reason" full stop. There's no empirical evidence or scientific basis to support the notion that everything happens for a predetermined reason. Many events occur due to a complex interplay of random chance, natural processes, human decisions, and external factors." Based on this line of reasoning, people shouldn't say that humans have inherent value or that life has any worth. Trying to use the modern day scientific establishment to pigeon hole the Cosmos in the way you do is an example of superstitious and anti-scientific cult worship.
Whataboutism: the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue. We were talking about predetermined reason, not about human life which you *claim* has no inherent value without a predermined reason - without any evidence for that claim whatsoever - and then start blabbing about not agreeing with that being anti-scientific. Gimme a break, if anything here is anti-scientific and smells of cult worship it's the "no unmoved mover = no values" BS.
"We were talking about predetermined reason, not about human life (having inherent value)-- " Both of these are metaphysical statements and outside the scope of scientific materialism. -which you claim has no inherent value without a predetermined reason"- I never claimed this. I simply stated that within the scope of scientific materialism, there is no proof or evidence that human life has any inherent value. You are using scientific materialism to make claims that are beyond its scope.
>Both of these are metaphysical statements and outside the scope of scientific materialism. The question of whether the universe has a cause is not outside the scope of science, and science definitely has somethign to say about morality as well (and a lot more coherent than bronze age texts) In addition, you just tried to wedge materialism into the conversation, another whataboutism. Enjoy your bubble.
I mean, to be fair, all of that is a reason, that is what the idea of cause and effect is.
Cause and effect is not the same as "happening for a reason". Again, there's no empirical evidence or scientific basis to support the notion that everything happens for a predetermined reason. Many events occur due to a complex interplay of random chance, natural processes, human decisions, and external factors.
I don't think we know of anything truly random though, even quark spins ended up being not random if I remember correctly.
1. **Quantum Tunneling**: Particles, such as electrons, can "tunnel" through potential energy barriers that would be impossible to surmount according to classical physics. The exact timing and occurrence of such tunneling events are considered inherently random. 2. **Radioactive Decay**: The decay of unstable atomic nuclei is a random process. While the decay rates follow statistical patterns, the exact timing of when a particular nucleus will decay cannot be predicted. 3. **Photon Emission**: The emission of photons by excited atoms or molecules is random. The timing and direction of photon emission cannot be precisely determined in advance. 4. **Brownian Motion**: The random motion of particles suspended in a fluid, as observed in Brownian motion, is due to collisions with molecules of the fluid. While the statistical properties of Brownian motion can be described, the exact trajectory of a single particle is unpredictable. 5. **Quantum Fluctuations**: Empty space is not truly empty according to quantum mechanics. It is filled with virtual particles popping in and out of existence due to quantum fluctuations. The timing and location of these fluctuations are considered random. 6. **Photon Absorption and Emission**: The absorption and emission of photons by atoms or molecules occur randomly. The exact timing and energy of these processes depend on probabilities governed by quantum mechanics. 7. **Noise in Electronic Devices**: In electronic circuits and devices, there is inherent noise caused by random fluctuations in electrical currents and voltages. This noise can be described statistically but is fundamentally random.
Yeah, but it's not random, we just can't predict it. Again, not random, we just can't predict it. Again, not random, we just can't predict it. Again, not random, we just can't predict it. This we don't understand, so it could or could not be random. Again, not random, we just can't predict it. Again, not random, we just can't predict it. There is a difference between random, and unpredictable. Just because we can't predict it doesn't make it random, like how in medieval times they couldn't predict a dice roll, but a dice roll isn't random.
>There is a difference between random, and unpredictable **Randomness specifically refers to a lack of pattern or predictability in events**. Random events occur without a discernible pattern, **meaning that each outcome has an equal chance of happening**. For example, flipping a fair coin is considered a random event because the outcome (heads or tails) cannot be reliably predicted in advance.
No? We know it's predictable, we just can't predict it. There is only one outcome that will ever occur, we just do not know how to predict it.
>We know it's predictable Prove it. Show me the math.
You mean physics? It would require the use of dynamics, I'm not sure what you mean here, it's just physics? You would obviously need to know the information being used, which is why the prediction is so hard, but that doesn't make it actually random, under the same conditions the same thing would happen everytime.
If everything happens for a reason, what is the reason little kids get trafficked for sex? Usually a show stopper.
I do not think you should should not trivialize other people struggles. Personally, i don't believe in God or energy crystals, and I don't think that everything happens for a reason. I think life is filled with random chaos. A few years ago, (embarrassingly late in my life) i learned from my father in law that i don't have to disagree with people when they say something I disagree with. I can just leave it be. I can let them be wrong. Maybe sometimes i ought to argue with them, but not always. If somebody tells me that everything happens for a reason, i think that is childish nonsense. >The people saying it have good intentions I can just appreciate their good intentions and move one with my day.
The only caveat I can think of is "sometimes things happen for a bad reason". Sometimes the thing that happens is a result of a larger (often structural) reason. I think "everything happens for a reason" can be a secular liturgy to explain how you should respond. "Everything happens for a reason" can be a way to explain why lay-offs happen even when companies are profiting. That's not how other people use it, so I do agree with your argument, but the open ended approach can give you some room to work with.
I've done better since I've changed my mindset. I've stopped taking things as a personal attack to me. Now I see it as things that just HAPPEN, and they happen to affect me. Not all of them make me feel good. That's OK. Variety. But I get to choose how I take it. That said, I agree it's tone deaf to see someone suffering and go "it's for a reason!!" Even if you feel that way, someone suffering is the moment to express empathy.
I've learned that the saying is something someone ought to know or recognise _before_ the situation arises, because in the thick if the situation it's no help. What people need in the middle of those times is someone to be sad with them and validate their sadness and cry out "why?!" without actually caring to know the answer right now. Otherwise what it actually sounds like is "you have no reason to be sad, so stop it".
Forget science. Forget all of the b.s. EVERYONE is talking about. I don't know if "ghosts" exist but there is something out there doing sh**. Don't know what. Don't want to either. I've seen it. None of it made sense. But it was real. Whatever it was . If you only believe everything has to have a scientific answer, then you DON'T believe in God. That's all I've got to say.
I don't see why not. It seems to have pretty good utility as a conversation killer, to placate those those who might be receptive to such an empty comment (i.e., dude is just talking *at* you, not with you), OR to pick a fight with the truly sensitive. I'm not sure how much time you hang out in depressing watering holes, but all three have a time and a place.
Honestly, I'd take it further and say no one should say that to anyone. I can say that about my circumstances if I believe it, but I'm not telling someone else that stuff unless they introduce it themselves 😬 I'm also atheist and don't believe in karma so I'm less likely so say it anyway. I def let them take the lead on those sort of platitudes.
You got cancer because thousands of years ago, a fusion reaction happened inside that gas ball you call the sun. The energy of that fusion reaction took its sweet time snaking up to the surface, beamed out as a ray of light, which hit one of your cells just the right way to make it break in a very specific manner, and keeps making more of itself uncontrollably. And for some reason your body's mechanisms to deal with shit like this, didn't. Everything happens because of a lot of reasons. The past shapes the present, the present shapes the future. Free will is bullshit. There is no inherent meaning in anything. Live however the fuck you want.
Well instead of finding the negative in everything and going out of my way to be as miserable as possible I take this and other platitudes in the spirit they are meant and be happy that some one took a second to Try and console me even if it's empty But each to their own
It may not always be polite to say, but it is an axiomatic fact that every happens for a reason, at least at the macro scale. It is baked into the causal nature of the universe.
oh relax, they're just trying to be nice. Sorry it wasn't exactly what you needed to hear but it's better than everyone just ignoring each other or being intentionally rude.
It’s not my place to say what people should or shouldn’t say. Unless I truly value their opinion, I really don’t care.
>asking them to explain why kids in africa have loiasis Odd, unnecessarily confrontational response to a benign phrase. >If I'm having a bad day and someone says this to me Does this really happen? Honestly, do you tell people you're having a bad day and they reply "everything happens for a reason"? This has never happened to me and I just can't believe it's that common. You also say people shouldn't say it to those they don't know. Well, why are you telling these people about your bad day? You know nothing about them either. Maybe they've been through it all recently and aren't interested in your trivial problem of the day. >If someone just lost a sibling and their inheritance just doubled, yeah theres a bright side to that situation Have you just made up this example? Of course, that's a callous and inconsiderate way to say "everything happens for a reason". But I don't think any right-thinking person would say anything close to "sorry for your loss but at least the payout was good". Ultimately, I just don't accept people are going around using this phrase in the way you claim here. Probably breaking a sub rule, but I can't begin to change your view because I simply don't believe there are people out there who are telling people who have just lost loved ones that "everything happens for a reason" because they are now better off financially. Sorry, I think you've invented a person to be mad at.
I've never understood that mindset, it's just needlessly optimistic which is annoying. Its not realistic.
I always respond that: actually, there is a reason why things happen.
Everything does happen for a reason, and that reason is: Physics.
But everything does happen for a reason.
Not here to CYV. I agree. That is all.
Everyone should say anything they want to say. You have all the right to dislike what they say and tell them so though. “How arrogant are you to think that you deserve to go through life with no one ever saying anything that you do not agree or don’t like?” - Ricky Gervais
It's a blatant lie; don't say it to anybody... lmao
Maybe the reason they say it is that God wants to break you free of this mental model you have of Him, and is working through those who agree to do His will, to plant this seed in your mind in order to finally make you understand why suffering exists. Sometimes the reason is epic and awesome. But if you’re not reminded of it, you’ll live in drudgery, and you’ll never look for it.
Or anybody