So, as you all know, I play a Shaman. I'm currently the best geared Shaman in the world (old armory link here that doesn't work) and I have multiple world DPS records on WowMeterOnline. So I go into this Battleground because I feel like gracing my battlegroup with my presence, right? Everyone is cheering as I enter. They don't bother handing out mage water or healthstone because they know that they're not going to need it--I, the Darkness, has come.
So I cast Lightning Shield on myself, because that's what Shamans do. They call down MOTES OF ELECTRICITY FROM THE HEAVENS and they SURROUND THEMSELVES with DEADLY AMOUNTS OF LIGHTNING!!! All of my teammates are instantly electrocuted to death, but me? I merely bathe in the energy; it is my plaything. Even though my teammates are now charred corpses, they continue to cheer, because they know that I can solo this. The gates open. I run in. With Ghost Wolf, my movement speed is increased by
40% PERCENT
Alliance sees me run by but they can't do anything about it because I'm a ghost and I'm wolfing at
40 PERCENT
a Human Paladin with Devotion Aura on bubbles and flees in terror when he sees me traveling at
40 PERCENT
They can hear the howl of my ghost wolf. They are all cowering--no, literally, they type the /cower emote and just stand there--as I cap the Stables. I cast WATERWALKING on myself--WATERWALKING, like Jesus, and I careen towards the Blacksmith. The Horde there see me coming and they just /afk the !@#$ out. I put down my totems before I start capping Blacksmith's flag. A Rogue tries to sap me--
BAM!!
The Rogue is engulfed in flame as my Searing Totem SEARS him from the inside out! His leather clothing EXPLODES in a rain of fire that spirals around my beautiful female Draenei form as I continue to cap the Blacksmith. The fire rips through the Rogue's bones, but it doesn't even consider touching me--why? Because I've got
FIRE RESIST TOTEM
A Warlock swoops in in Demon Form and tries to Conflag me but his Conflag does 0 damage to me because of
FIRE RESIST TOTEM
A Gnome Mage Slowfalls in and he Pyroblasts me but it is ineffective because of
FIRE RESIST TOTEM
Blacksmith caps. I mount up on my KAEL'THAS MOUNT--no, literally, I ride Kael'thas around, the Blood Elf--and head over to Farm, because I feel like eating some potatoes.
POTATOES. BOIL 'EM, MASH 'EM, STICK 'EM IN A STEW. AND HEARTS. SHAMAN DESIRES PALADIN HEARRRRRRRTS.
Just then, I see something through my Sentry Totem. It's the WoW General Forums! --People are complaining about how overpowered I am! They're saying that Shamans need to be nerfed. I smirk.
That's when I decide to take out my HAND OF RAGNAROS.
EIGHTY POINT FOUR DAMAGE PER SECONNNNND
I slam the Hand of Ragnaros down into the ground. Arathi Basin shatters like glass--the ground falls out from under me. The fabric of SPACE itself CRUMBLES beneath my feet. I cackle as I enter the REAL REALM, becoming a TRUE ENTITY existing ON THE PLANET EARTH. I am an Orc walking around New York--the cops try to stop me, but they forget all about me when they take a gander at my
STONECLAW TOTEM
STONE AND CLAW COMBINED. CAN YOU TAKE IT?
But then, in the spaces between the gathering crowds, I see something. Someone. The smirk on my face deteriorates. .. it's one of the Alliance. A Dwarf.
I thought I had destroyed Arathi Basin. I thought I had won the Battleground. But all that time--
--But all that time--...
.. there he was. Just standing there. Regenerating 5, health,
per
second.
I glared at the Dwarf.
The Dwarf glared back at me.
Silence flooded the world.
"And there's nothing you can do about it," the Dwarf whispered.
So theres a couple things going on here:
Historically in vanilla, Horde pugs are usually better because Horde have far superior PvP racials while also being the more badass looking races. This means that assuming 0 organization, Horde will simply have better players on their team and win BGs
However, in organized PvP Alliance are usually far superior due to the incredible utility Paladins bring, making Alliance typically do better in group play and giving Alliance better players at the top end.
Furthermore, due to things like +5 Sword skill for humans, people who want to be the best in PvP AND PvE would roll alliance since they'd get the best of both worlds with paladins and maximum dps.
This got shattered with SoD which massively buffed Shamans to now out perform Paladins in PvP, making it so theres no reason for someone who's a hardcore PvPer to roll Alliance since they have inferior classes and racials, and now that they're axing Human's sword specialization, no reason to roll Human either. Horde got upgraded across the board to now be just straight up superior, so people who want to be as meta as possible, who typically are the sweatiest and best players, will roll Horde, leaving a giant talent gap in the Alliance.
Anyone suggesting its some insane RP situation like Alliance having a loss mentality are either coping or up their own ass.
I also heard horde queues are long meaning that they want to win the games they get into. Alliance gets into games far quicker and would rather give up on a lost game to quickly get into another game
Horde queues are long because they have far more pvpers than the alliance since pvpers have no reason to roll Alliance anymore
If you're a skilled pvper, you have very little reason to roll Alliance right now unless you think being shadowmelded on stables is peak gameplay
Yes, that's what I meant. It's crazy how orcs have the best melee PvE racial and arguably the best PvP racial in the game, and undead / trolls are up there for pvp / pve respectively. Meanwhile, alliance basically just has wep skill, escape artist, and stoneform, which I don't think compare to stun resist and fear/charm immunity
I forgot to mention, Dorfs having Fear Ward was another major reason alliance won out in organized play.
But they're giving Sword Specialization and Fear Ward to the Horde, so again, no real reason to roll Alliance anymore unless you like the aesthetic.
At this point they should just axe any racials and add paladins and shamans to both factions.
I would not at all be surprised if they released dwarf shamans and tauren paladins next phase. I mean it's as simple as converting healing effects from yellow to green while leaving the animations the same, same with tauren and druid to pala.
Do I think it's likely? Not at all. Would I be surprised? Nah. They opened those classes up the very next expansion anyway and people are already used to alliance shamans in every other version of wow. The only real development needed would be lore and class quests. Just do time traveling again like the stealth tauren rogue.
They'll need to do this if they want to implement bloodlust anyway, which I also think they could since it's been a thing since literally every expansion since the one after classic.
And even then (which I’m hoping they’d do from the get go) it wouldn’t matter anyway cause there would be even less incentive to roll alliance. One of those was salv too, besides the weap kills racial changes.
They won't. Aggrand said it would be too much work to add horde Pala and alli sham, probably would take up alot of the allotted work time for the upcoming phase to make sense prioritizing
Was announced before p1 that by the time lvl 60 releases all races would be able to get the equivalent of sword spec in any weapon class. They haven't said how it'll happen, just that it will
Its by no means even good in comparison to horde racials, but god damn is shadowmeld useful when it comes to playing my hunter in world pvp. Not just the meld trap burst combo, but generally getting out of shitty situations.
I played a lot of BGs as alliance during classic and TBC (not so much time during Wrath) - if things didnt instantly go the alliance way the team would start spamming "lose/give up etc" in chat. It was ridiculous
Horde queues for 5-man (or more) premades are nearly instant. It's horde solo players who have to wait 45 minutes for a queue.
So a typical game is an Alliance pug vs two 5-man premades.
Also a lot of good PvP players alliance side are not playing SoD anymore since P3, tired of the state of the game.
Maybe they gonna come back at level 60 but I doubt. Cataclysm have superior PvP and RBG.
Most PvP players that choose Alliance in SoD did it because of Paladin superiority, and because Horde had a tendency to have no healers in battleground (hence you get stomped by Alliance that have Pal + Priest, everyone that played in 2019 can remember how healers were scarce in battleground as Horde).
The reality is, this doesn't translate in SoD. Horde this time has a lot of healers, a lot of class can now heal themselves or other even if they are DPS, and Shaman was busted and still is. Add the PvP racials, and you have a strong faction. + the jumps are easier to do in Horde base to cap a flag. Everything add ups.
Meanwhile, Ret is still doing Ret thing, easily kittable and almost useless if it doesn't hit you. Holy ? They have nothing "new" that is relevant. So why play Alliance anymore outside of having instant queue ?
But weapon skill is mostly useless in BGs, right?
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Weapon_skill
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/classic-wow-weapon-skills
The alliance organized pvp comment is completely bullshit. Horde teams were winning tournaments in 2019 classic because of shamans still. Chain lightning burst was too strong.
There's a snowball effect to it... imagine you're down 4:1 in ab a few min in. Okay now imagine same thing but it's the 10th time in a row and the last 9 led to 20m losses.
I've played both sides, I hear you, but there is a loss mentality to it.
Alliance has the advantage in WSG given equal skilled/organised players, in my opinion. So many of the jumps / gate runs are impossible for most horde races and extremely easy for alliance. The fence one on alliance tunnel roof is most egregious. The reason horde wins mostly (I am horde and have an almost 90% win rate) is because it's a 20+ minute queue if you go solo on horde so we queue as groups of 5 and almost every group will try to have a flag carrier and a healer. Alliance don't seem to premade so much, and when they do, they don't tailor their comps very well. I face a lot of alliance who don't have a flag carrier or a single healer, and those games are basically free wins.
> Anyone suggesting its some insane RP situation like Alliance having a loss mentality are either coping or up their own ass.
I play both factions and I've got to say Alliance just give up way easier for some reason. After 1 lost mid fight at least 1 person is going to soft AFK.
I don't think Horde has better pugs TBH they are just frothing. Like I'm not even joking every game there is at least 1 guy talking about how much he hates Alliance and yelling things like "CHARGE FOR THE HORDE!"
Except Alliance do have a loss mentality. It's very easy to see when players just immediately fold after the first big fight. Alliance players constantly just wait in their own GY in a pug vs pug game because they've convinced themselves they can't win that game after going down 1-0 and have fast enough queues to get into the next one asap.
Horde racials aren't far superior, but they are definitely better, with Paladins still giving Alliance a slight advantage (at least at 60). In SOD, Alliance doesn't have the same class advantage. All that is true. But having played alliance last time around when we had instant queues, the greatest contributing factor was morale and instant queues. Beyond that, horde pugs just tried harder in PvP (more likely to use pvp abilities instead of just DPSing, more likely to focus targets, more likely to use consumes/engineering, etc.). That trend is definitely still true in SOD.
I haven't seen nearly as many afk/bot issues this time around, but those also tend to more negatively impact the faster queue faction.
Last is the knock on effect of pugs performing badly. As the pug experience got worse and worse back in 2019 Classic, more and more players who cared about winning gravitated toward premades. All the sweaties ranked up asap, and they did it in premades, so over time the quality of Alliance pugs became absolutely trash. That seems to be happening again as well.
It’s so bad and I didn’t fully realize until I switched from wsg to AB. AB is sooo much better. Everyone is actually playing and engaged most of the time. Must be because there isn’t really any great pve gear from AB.
Shaman was outrageously OP in pvp for basically all of phase 2. Then for phase 3 they BUFFED ele. Now with the recent pvp changes enh is back on top. Because shamans is only available to horde, pvp as a whole has been catastrophically damaged, because the faction without the overwhelmingly best class simply can't compete. BGs might as well not exist for alliance players.
Alliance has been at a severe disadvantage for a very long time at this point and the devs have done everything they can to ignore the problem. Because of that, all of the serious pvpers who would like to play alliance either swapped to horde out of necessity or just quit playing.
I don't think the problem is solvable tbh. Once you let the cat out of the bag and allow faction imbalance to become this one sided, a bunch of inertia builds up and simply balancing things again isn't enough to persuade enough people to return to the previously weaker faction. I genuinely think pvp is ruined for the rest of SoD. It's sad, but that's how things work in games like this. If they had nerfed shamans into the ground after a week or two, before everyone rerolled or quit, things probably would have recovered. But now it's way too late. Even if they nerfed shamans and buffed paladins to be as strong as shamans used to be, not enough people would come back.
For phase 4 i wish for a way to acquire stun resist for alliance, similar to orc racial, maybe 5% less proc chance, just like i wish they will only give horde 3 weapon skill instead of making human racial useless
I would also like a change to the engineering bracers to work like horde racial on maybe a 5 min cd instead of a 10 min cd that only gives you a 10sec budget fearward like it is implemented currently
These should have upgraded versions at 60 imo
> Now with the recent pvp changes enh is back on top
On top of ... WHAT? Damage, survivability, utility, disruption? Apparently you haven't played a Shaman before, and it clearly shows
That's because no one who cares about winning is queueing on Alliance because why would they when there's a good chance they'll just get rolled by shamans? Rather just go and do something else with my time.
They didn't buff them. Way of earth was the only time shaman were overpowered.
Paladins were two shotting me in their 4 second 1minute cd stun up until they started tweaking this reduction in damage.
The weird thing is my wsg experience in solo queue is pretty even. Ab weekend seems to be horde wins but they are close.
True :) all the shamans are just good man, especially enhancement shamans, just kite them bro! Frost shock constantly, freedom totem, insta offheals etc doesnt matter! They are not op at all! My top rating in arena in 1300 btw so I know what im talking about
Once every 5 min a paladin can be immortal for 10 seconds (but attack 100% slower)
For the other 4 min 50 seconds shaman can delete them in 2 gcds
Other than that, both sides have the same classes and horde have some nicer racials for PvP
Horde will tell you despite having the same classes being played by players who clicked red or blue, that somehow all the people who play to win clicked red
Shammies are the issue at the moment and the huge win loss disparity makes it glaringly obvious
Everyone can/could delete everyone. Burst damage is crazy high against our tiny health pools. Alliance are just big babies because they are used to shaman being a free hk.
Paladins were two shotting me in their 4 second 1minute cd stun up until they started tweaking this reduction in damage over the last two weekends. It'll be interesting to see the new balance after they have decided where to leave it.
Also it's not one shield, it's lay on hands, stun and the other shield which works against half the damage in the game.
dont use 1h cd lay on hands in a pvp argument lol.
agree with the rest of the post though. ret paladins have good burst but alliance players arent good. they dont use their utility at all. a ret will run in 1v5 and try to blow someone up and be like "what gives why are paladins so weak?" when they have to immediately bubble and cut their damage in half. though blessing of protection can be purged. shamans beat paladins 1v1 but i don't think the game should be balanced around 1v1.
Ret Pals have good burst provided:
* Seal of Command procs and crits
* Melee crits for Exorcism resets
Beside that, their damage is laughable. HoJ and bad RNG? That's a 80% HP player walking away from you.
Shaman diff, shamans didn't have burst potential in p1, they do now.
Paladins are generally considered better at high level of play but when it comes to pugs burst will always beat utility because you will never be organized enough to get the full value out of a paladin but a shammy nuking you in two gcds is always going to have mostly the same value.
Make your own premade, assign a druid as FC, tell a healer to follow him and tell the rest of your guys to engage the horde in the middle right out of the gate while the FC runs past.
If you win the first fight you push them towards GY and basically repeat.
Obviously you need some communication underway incase they have Defenders in flagroom.
You also need to keep an eye out for EFC but if you successfully beat them in the first mid fight it shouldnt be a problem to pull back and swarm him.
This is the simplest way I can explain the winning strategy in an ideal game.
Could have left out the last paragraph there but I figure its nice with some elaboration.
On a sidenote you should pick up the nifty pocket watch and skull of impending doom if you havent already - in case you do need to flag carry :-)
Shamans are a hero class. Horde like to cope and say they are just better pvpers but ask anyone outside of reddit and they will say ya shamans are incredibly strong in pvp.
Its simple really,
You either need shamans to win, oh wait alliance dont have em
Or
More shadow priests than enhs
But with pvp nerfs enhs kinda on top now.
Yes, because alliance has been known since day 1 of classic era to give up early because of shorter queues. The fact shamans are way stronger than paladins in SoD doesn't help either.
It's horrific, all Blizz need to do is fix the horde matchmaking bug so that they don't insta queue in a group rather than solo, and you'll actually start to see good games like at the start of P2. People say "well just make a premade" but the only way to have fun and not get wanked on by priest shaman premades every single match, shouldn't be to have to make a premade. I'll end up quitting entirely because of the state of PVP in SoD, I'm certain
For some reason the alliance have a lose mentality and lose fast. There are very little alliance players who actually know ot care what to do in BG's
This may be because some BIS gear is looked behind exalted WSG rep and you get the pve'ers dragged into BG's for the rep
Even in wpvp on a pvp server alliance don't want to participate.
I have no idea how this came about though.
Lol cope. Alliance can’t win a fair fight because they suck. They’ve always sucked and will always suck. It has to do with the aesthetics more than anything.
Pvp minded people will roll horde because the horde races look badass while the pansies will play alliance because alliances races look like pansies.
I mean seriously, who plays a human in a fantasy game? I’ll tell you who, people who suck at pvp.
>because the horde races look badass while the pansies will play alliance because alliances races look like pansies.
spoken like a true 12 year old lmfao
Im multi-glad Human Warrior and player since Vanilla and enjoy my Human in SoD too. Let people enjoy things and be more open minded. It will make your life happier
This is the most Cringe inducing shit I’ve ever read. Horde super Epic badass! Alliance puny!
Do you actually believe this for real or is this ragebait?
The majority of alliance are so used to losing they don't play BGs by the objectives, they just act like every BG is a team death match even when the alliance team is significantly better than the horde team and could easily win.
Ive struggled with this for a long time and there are only 2 solutions:
1. Make a 10 man premade (2 groups of 5 que at same time, only accept que if both groups get the pop at the same time) WITH discord, with a good comp with at least 3 healers, and with geared dps (atm 3k hp or more unbuf is a good metric to go by). Having 3 healers alone GREATLY increses chances of victory, most games it seems like theres 0 or 1 healer. Communication also helps a lot. As a flag carry, i like to ask my teammates if flag room is safe to jump down, or if theres enemies in our tunnel... or in AB, we need to know where horde are heading, and how many; also need people who will listen when you demand 2 defenders on each node at all times.
2. Be a good flag carry. This alone can win games. I've picked up flag carrying recently and while it is very hard at first, with a steep learning curve, this makes all the difference in the world. Being a druid with FAPS, rocket helm, nades, sleep chest, rocket boots and stopwatch and knowing the most important WSG jumps made a HUGE in my winrate. Im not a great FC but id say I already increased my solo winrate from 30% to like 60 or 70%.
Horde plays premades to even find a match. Whatever else people will tell you in this thread is second to that.
Finding yourself a good FC druid to play with is your best bet to impact the games tbh because people don't seem to want to win on alliance anymore, just accepting fast losses for more honor.
Easy to make your own team. You need a druid flag carrier. You a warlock will be fine. You need a shadow/heals priest. You need a ranged hunter. And the last spot is flex. Probably a warrior but could be a paladin since your alliance. The priest and paladin can be either or but one has to be heals. Mage and rogue are not great currently in WSG unless they are an all star master of their class.
Generally speaking, yes. From what I understand Horde tend to run more “premades” because their queue times are longer and queue’ing solo is very inefficient for them. So, by virtue of having a premade they already have more cohesion than solo queueing Alliance players. They tend to build out a comp that gives them all the right elements such as flag carrying, CC, healing, damage, etc. Again, because they wait a lot longer for games than we (Alliance) do they have to make every game count. They likely go so far as to require comms.
Alliance have the luxury of 1 minute queues. So, most alliance are pretty chill solo queuing and just farming HKs. If we win it’s a bonus. Although, I have noticed that if you (the individual player) play an active role in trying to coordinate your team you’ll sometimes get something that resembles a team to coalesce and you have a better chance to win. But 50/50 is probably the best you’re going to do solo queueing unless you join a premade.
So horde tunnel is just far superior for the stupid druid flag shuffle terrain exploiting.
Match that with a combination of racials and **the fact horde are incentivized to group to avoid queue times vs solo alliance players** aaaaaand you can figure it out.
Also it was hilarious watching enhance shamans with the 30/50% dmg nerf still obliterate people.
Yep. Its misery pugging as alliance, especially WSG. I’ll only ever do it on a wsg weekend when ranking (7 anyway) and on LF US alliance there are never 10 stack, maybe some 5s during not weekend. Sometimes 10 stack on weekend but not often.
Alliance sucks in AB too but genuinely more tolerable. WSG is just awful without a premade, at least 5s
Met 8 Shamans in AB this mornign. Eight. Obviously they didn't even had 0 death before reaching 5:0. This is a fucking joke. Why THE FUCK are we paying Blizzard money for doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? It's so fucking stupid.
Don’t have any advice for you and Blizzard doesn’t care.
Even if you queue up with 1-2 friends you gonna have a bad time. You get matched vs living flame premades pretty much all the time.
I got banned for 1 week after going on a 15 game losing streak of 0-3 losses with only 500 rep left till exalted.
At that point I let WSG get to me and the melt down came shortly after.
I managed to limp to exalted and never again will solo queue wsg on ally side.
people will blame racials, shamans, God, anything but the brain dead players on ally side who give up after seeing more than 2 shamans or horde getting the first cap. It was a pitiful experience
Doesn't matter if we do because ain't nothing out healing shaman and one other player attacking the guy you're healing. In Era if I can freecast holy lights, my target will live forever as long as I have maja unless it's like 10v2 with MS.
I can outheal some non-OP classes for a short time usually but that's it.
The alliance organized pvp comment is completely bullshit. Horde teams were winning tournaments in 2019 classic because of shamans still. Chain lightning burst was too strong.
Alliance is actually atrocious at PvP in SoD
Horde normally had the advantage even in classic 2019 but this is on a whole other level
An example I can point to is I was in an AB the other day, we had BS, Farm and GM
Alliance had 10+ at LM and refused to advance even though there were only two of us defending farm. They kept advancing down the ramp towards us a bit but anytime we would start to approach them (just two of us) they would all turn around and run back up the hill to LM
They would have stomped us, and it wasn’t because the game was over either, this was early, like sub 500 pts a team
We didn’t have some big force at BS either. They just refused to even try
People in here will point to shamans as the reason why, but I have been in dozens of games with zero shamans on our team and we still wipe the floor with allies
Our queues are quite long so people are motivated to win and communication is usually really good
Starting in P2 the notion that Shamans were OP lead to players discouraged from doing BGs. As they became increasingly discouraged from doing BGs they begin to mentally accept its over when shaman que into them. They then proceed to decided what’s the point just lose fast for a mark.
I’m not here to say if shaman are weak, balanced, or OP. That doesn’t matter. The PERCEPTION that they were OP lead to Alliance players giving up entirely.
Good players start doing the more efficient once-a-day 1k rep or doing AB for Honor. This leaves WSG with a small pool of players who mostly just want to get it over with fast.
Alliance have insta ques, Q again is their slogan. Meanwhile horde have 30min ques so they take it semi serious because they are waiting so long to get it.
Lol cope. Alliance can’t win a fair fight because they suck. They’ve always sucked and will always suck. It has to do with the aesthetics more than anything.
Pvp minded people will roll horde because the horde races look badass while the pansies will play alliance because alliances races look like pansies.
I mean seriously, who plays a human in a fantasy game? I’ll tell you who, people who suck at pvp.
Alliance pugs are pretty lame. Id recommend joining a premade. I have had way better luck doing premades then not. Communication makes a big difference with pvp. Discord helps immensely
I wonder how much impact a faction change option would have. Goin Alliance because of my guild was the worst mistake in my WoW "career" (established 2004).
To all the ally saying horde have better pvp racials, which ones?
Am i crazy for thinking will of the forsaken is on par with stone form?
Is gnome intel and escape arist worse than 2% stam and 3 sec stun every 2 mins?
+5 axes paired with Ap but 50% less healing better than +5 to swords and better invis sight?
Increased attack speed vs shadowmeld?
What am i missing? Is commanding presences really what makes horde better? (Orc passive for pets). Maybe its troll passive for bows???? So far all i see is i agree horde amke better hunters/locks(if demo) :P
1. Yes
2. They're about the same (the active ones), I prefer Stomp though
3. Yes
4. Depends on the situation, but overrall, yes? A. Speed should be better
5. Nope, of course not, but it adds up if you want, better than nothing
Oops, you forgot the 25% permanent stun resist chance that Orcs got, probably irrelevant too
Which is a counter to all of 1 class, rogues. Pallies to a lesser extent because their stun is on a cd.
Alliance suck because they’ve always sucked. Even when alliance had the better pvp racials in wrath they still got curbstomped.
Alright so let’s break it down:
Who has stuns?
Rogues
Paladins
Warriors
Druids
To a much lesser extent: hunter & mage procs
Obviously yes it is much worse on rogues. But it affects many classes.
Additionally, in PvP the most dangerous/impactful thing you can have happen to you is. . . losing control of your character right?
Which loss of control affects _also_ let you damage someone during?
Hint: one of them is stun. Stun is the only CC in the game that _will not_ break on damage, making it by far the most important cc to avoid.
What’s the second most common one?
Ah, fear. Right, right.
Having played both sides over the years, yes horde is typically the more avid/skillful players on average. Alliance used to tend to have a very high end (vampire clan as an example). Alliance had the dominant meta for WSG in classic for sure.
But let’s not downplay how incredibly strong orc racial is. I mean it is straight bonkers compared to everything else.
Wotf is mainly a counter for locks and priests
How do you not think stoneform is a counter for rogues /warriors? That seems even.
Why? If i activate bloodrage i cant heal the same, if you get some heavy hits in im done. As a shaman i cant even heal myself with -50% on top of the reduction in place. Axes vs swords is pretty even, iv been caught so many times with perception i dont see how it isnt good.
Idk what 5 is linked too, the shawdowmeld? Ill give you thag nighelfs kinda get shafted. But ive seen shadowmeld work in pvp, is it better than attack speed, yeah. But its based on health lost, full health is small gains.
Hardness i guess but its not a garenteed resist. I can count the number of times ive resisted pally stun on one hand. Been pvping all sod. Not that your wrong, big picture that is an advantage.
1. Warriors too. They also got a fear. Fear is everywhere though. Priests literally AoE fear you every 30 seconds. So yeah, Will is pretty valuable here. Stoneform is mostly used to break Blind, no? So when fighting a Rogue you won't use it to just "cleanse" yourself off of poisons anyway. Against Warriors maybe, but it's not like that huge of a deal. They will reapply the bleeds right after.
2. So you're a Shaman. Yes, you can't heal the same while you activate Bloodrage, but the keyword here is "activate". You do it when you want, when the time is right. You don't even have to use it at all and that's also okay if you don't wanna risk dying. Just use it to push for a kill / your HP is good at that moment.
Also 2. Perception. It's good indeed, never said it wasn't, BUT, it has a huge problem, that it requires you to activate it BEFORE you start the fight. Most of the time you will just get sapped / cheap shotted anyway, because you have no idea a Rogue is lurking around you.
3. Yes, Shadowmeld can work for PvP, that's why I said in the previous comment, that it depends between the two. Element of surprise can be a thing for sure, I saw it in action too, I just prefer more attack speed to push in for a kill or something. Don't really play a Troll, but that's what I'd do if I were one, I'm not into stealth business.
4. For me it's the opposite, lol. On my Paladin, my stun gets resisted by Orcs most of the time. Like 6/7 out of 10 times. It's pretty rough considering it's on 1 min CD too.
Stone is all diseases, posions, and bleeds. So its not just blind. So its not just rogues. Hunter, rogue ,warrior, druid.
Both blood and perc are both active. Ima feral so no tele for me, i get caught. Id never pop blood for the kill, getting greedy is how you die too.
Attack speed is ok if your near dead but full health its a small increase. Gnomes perma intel is better. They are both small but gnomes is on permanently.
Gnome intel barely matters, but yes escape artist is a good racial
The +5 axes and +5 swords will be irrelevant in P4 when every race gets a weapon spec
Perception has always been just OK but now rogues have a teleport, making it not so great
Shadowmeld is nice but very niche
Meanwhile Orcs get a very huge 25% stun resist while Undead get a 5s immunity to fear which hits 3 classes
Its all pretty niche / situational.
So far orc is really the only one im seeing a big advantage with the rest have matches whether ally wana admit or not. Ferals done have tele.
In Classic Alliance PUGs we’re sucking dick in all of PvP.
Idk how that translates to todays issues.
What you can do to have an impact on your WSG games, is learning how to effectively carry the flag.
You probably need to play the correct class for that, though.
Or you could learn how to defend the flag, but there you have a lot less impact.
Generally if you start dominating the game with your superior flag carrying abilities, then your team will kinda catch some wind into their sails and start playing at least a bit more seriously.
There’s a streamer TiltedX, who used to play a Gnome Mage solo queueing WSG and he was absolutely owning.
Not sure what rave he plays now, but he still streams , most probably WSG.
It doesn't matter how fucking good your flag carrying skill is if the rest of your team isn't supporting you because they're being afk camped in the gy.
It only takes one or two players to shut down a flag carrier with no support.
I see “I do well…” and “no amount of FAPs can save me”
There’s a lot of “I” and “Me” talk in there.
Horde have a very “We” and “Us” mentality.
BG’s are won in trade chat before you even queue.
There is nothing an individual can do that will stop a team. Alliance all think they’re the main character of their own story. We’re a horde of bloodthirsty rejects.
There is a lot of ludonarrative consistency with this framing in my experience. Ally think they’re all King Arthur and want a world full of justice. Horde will camp your body just for the fun of it.
Not sure how serious this post is but no, WoW players are basically the same on both sides. I've played both factions and heard "alliance/horde sucks at pvp, I hate this, you're all braindead, why do I even queue" on both factions.
Shamans are OP at the moment, though.
Yes. This is very normal
I second this statement.
Meithe to
POV: you're on the shaman adjacent faction
So, as you all know, I play a Shaman. I'm currently the best geared Shaman in the world (old armory link here that doesn't work) and I have multiple world DPS records on WowMeterOnline. So I go into this Battleground because I feel like gracing my battlegroup with my presence, right? Everyone is cheering as I enter. They don't bother handing out mage water or healthstone because they know that they're not going to need it--I, the Darkness, has come. So I cast Lightning Shield on myself, because that's what Shamans do. They call down MOTES OF ELECTRICITY FROM THE HEAVENS and they SURROUND THEMSELVES with DEADLY AMOUNTS OF LIGHTNING!!! All of my teammates are instantly electrocuted to death, but me? I merely bathe in the energy; it is my plaything. Even though my teammates are now charred corpses, they continue to cheer, because they know that I can solo this. The gates open. I run in. With Ghost Wolf, my movement speed is increased by 40% PERCENT Alliance sees me run by but they can't do anything about it because I'm a ghost and I'm wolfing at 40 PERCENT a Human Paladin with Devotion Aura on bubbles and flees in terror when he sees me traveling at 40 PERCENT They can hear the howl of my ghost wolf. They are all cowering--no, literally, they type the /cower emote and just stand there--as I cap the Stables. I cast WATERWALKING on myself--WATERWALKING, like Jesus, and I careen towards the Blacksmith. The Horde there see me coming and they just /afk the !@#$ out. I put down my totems before I start capping Blacksmith's flag. A Rogue tries to sap me-- BAM!! The Rogue is engulfed in flame as my Searing Totem SEARS him from the inside out! His leather clothing EXPLODES in a rain of fire that spirals around my beautiful female Draenei form as I continue to cap the Blacksmith. The fire rips through the Rogue's bones, but it doesn't even consider touching me--why? Because I've got FIRE RESIST TOTEM A Warlock swoops in in Demon Form and tries to Conflag me but his Conflag does 0 damage to me because of FIRE RESIST TOTEM A Gnome Mage Slowfalls in and he Pyroblasts me but it is ineffective because of FIRE RESIST TOTEM Blacksmith caps. I mount up on my KAEL'THAS MOUNT--no, literally, I ride Kael'thas around, the Blood Elf--and head over to Farm, because I feel like eating some potatoes. POTATOES. BOIL 'EM, MASH 'EM, STICK 'EM IN A STEW. AND HEARTS. SHAMAN DESIRES PALADIN HEARRRRRRRTS. Just then, I see something through my Sentry Totem. It's the WoW General Forums! --People are complaining about how overpowered I am! They're saying that Shamans need to be nerfed. I smirk. That's when I decide to take out my HAND OF RAGNAROS. EIGHTY POINT FOUR DAMAGE PER SECONNNNND I slam the Hand of Ragnaros down into the ground. Arathi Basin shatters like glass--the ground falls out from under me. The fabric of SPACE itself CRUMBLES beneath my feet. I cackle as I enter the REAL REALM, becoming a TRUE ENTITY existing ON THE PLANET EARTH. I am an Orc walking around New York--the cops try to stop me, but they forget all about me when they take a gander at my STONECLAW TOTEM STONE AND CLAW COMBINED. CAN YOU TAKE IT? But then, in the spaces between the gathering crowds, I see something. Someone. The smirk on my face deteriorates. .. it's one of the Alliance. A Dwarf. I thought I had destroyed Arathi Basin. I thought I had won the Battleground. But all that time-- --But all that time--... .. there he was. Just standing there. Regenerating 5, health, per second. I glared at the Dwarf. The Dwarf glared back at me. Silence flooded the world. "And there's nothing you can do about it," the Dwarf whispered.
Well done *washes your back
Damn I'm playing the wrong class
So theres a couple things going on here: Historically in vanilla, Horde pugs are usually better because Horde have far superior PvP racials while also being the more badass looking races. This means that assuming 0 organization, Horde will simply have better players on their team and win BGs However, in organized PvP Alliance are usually far superior due to the incredible utility Paladins bring, making Alliance typically do better in group play and giving Alliance better players at the top end. Furthermore, due to things like +5 Sword skill for humans, people who want to be the best in PvP AND PvE would roll alliance since they'd get the best of both worlds with paladins and maximum dps. This got shattered with SoD which massively buffed Shamans to now out perform Paladins in PvP, making it so theres no reason for someone who's a hardcore PvPer to roll Alliance since they have inferior classes and racials, and now that they're axing Human's sword specialization, no reason to roll Human either. Horde got upgraded across the board to now be just straight up superior, so people who want to be as meta as possible, who typically are the sweatiest and best players, will roll Horde, leaving a giant talent gap in the Alliance. Anyone suggesting its some insane RP situation like Alliance having a loss mentality are either coping or up their own ass.
Horde also has to play in premades to even find a match, whereas alliance can soloQ so they are at a disadvantage by default
I also heard horde queues are long meaning that they want to win the games they get into. Alliance gets into games far quicker and would rather give up on a lost game to quickly get into another game
Horde queues are long because they have far more pvpers than the alliance since pvpers have no reason to roll Alliance anymore If you're a skilled pvper, you have very little reason to roll Alliance right now unless you think being shadowmelded on stables is peak gameplay
Yes, that's what I meant. It's crazy how orcs have the best melee PvE racial and arguably the best PvP racial in the game, and undead / trolls are up there for pvp / pve respectively. Meanwhile, alliance basically just has wep skill, escape artist, and stoneform, which I don't think compare to stun resist and fear/charm immunity
I forgot to mention, Dorfs having Fear Ward was another major reason alliance won out in organized play. But they're giving Sword Specialization and Fear Ward to the Horde, so again, no real reason to roll Alliance anymore unless you like the aesthetic. At this point they should just axe any racials and add paladins and shamans to both factions.
I would not at all be surprised if they released dwarf shamans and tauren paladins next phase. I mean it's as simple as converting healing effects from yellow to green while leaving the animations the same, same with tauren and druid to pala. Do I think it's likely? Not at all. Would I be surprised? Nah. They opened those classes up the very next expansion anyway and people are already used to alliance shamans in every other version of wow. The only real development needed would be lore and class quests. Just do time traveling again like the stealth tauren rogue. They'll need to do this if they want to implement bloodlust anyway, which I also think they could since it's been a thing since literally every expansion since the one after classic.
And even then (which I’m hoping they’d do from the get go) it wouldn’t matter anyway cause there would be even less incentive to roll alliance. One of those was salv too, besides the weap kills racial changes.
They won't. Aggrand said it would be too much work to add horde Pala and alli sham, probably would take up alot of the allotted work time for the upcoming phase to make sense prioritizing
Wait what? Where did they give sword spec to horde? I don’t see that anywhere
Was announced before p1 that by the time lvl 60 releases all races would be able to get the equivalent of sword spec in any weapon class. They haven't said how it'll happen, just that it will
Its by no means even good in comparison to horde racials, but god damn is shadowmeld useful when it comes to playing my hunter in world pvp. Not just the meld trap burst combo, but generally getting out of shitty situations.
Hey until you’ve shadowmelded on stables and rattled off a couple instant aimed shots, don’t you talk down to my joy!
I thought if you shadowmelded on top of stables, your main job was to tell everyone else in the BG how terrible they are.
I'll double chimera to that brother.
I played a lot of BGs as alliance during classic and TBC (not so much time during Wrath) - if things didnt instantly go the alliance way the team would start spamming "lose/give up etc" in chat. It was ridiculous
Horde queues for 5-man (or more) premades are nearly instant. It's horde solo players who have to wait 45 minutes for a queue. So a typical game is an Alliance pug vs two 5-man premades.
horde ques are instant if you que as a grp of 5. thats why theres so many premades
On CS-EU, AB queues are typically 2-5 min, and i usually have a 80-90% win rate during my sessions.
Also a lot of good PvP players alliance side are not playing SoD anymore since P3, tired of the state of the game. Maybe they gonna come back at level 60 but I doubt. Cataclysm have superior PvP and RBG. Most PvP players that choose Alliance in SoD did it because of Paladin superiority, and because Horde had a tendency to have no healers in battleground (hence you get stomped by Alliance that have Pal + Priest, everyone that played in 2019 can remember how healers were scarce in battleground as Horde). The reality is, this doesn't translate in SoD. Horde this time has a lot of healers, a lot of class can now heal themselves or other even if they are DPS, and Shaman was busted and still is. Add the PvP racials, and you have a strong faction. + the jumps are easier to do in Horde base to cap a flag. Everything add ups. Meanwhile, Ret is still doing Ret thing, easily kittable and almost useless if it doesn't hit you. Holy ? They have nothing "new" that is relevant. So why play Alliance anymore outside of having instant queue ?
this is correct, and why I was so against stopping premades, as alliance it was our only shot
If we do not stomp a pug we cannot win 🤡
But weapon skill is mostly useless in BGs, right? https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Weapon_skill https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/classic-wow-weapon-skills
Well add to that the fact that horde can do premades and alliance can’t.
The alliance organized pvp comment is completely bullshit. Horde teams were winning tournaments in 2019 classic because of shamans still. Chain lightning burst was too strong.
lol you’re vastly overestimating human weapon skill in pvp, gnome has always been the superior pvp race. SoD’s change here is a good one.
You clearly misread my post
Yea I guess escape artist and stoneform/fear ward no longer exist.
You're aware Horde is getting fear ward right?
I am not
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Yes I was agreeing with you in the fact that OP left these out in in the racial comparison.
Ahhh ok!
There's a snowball effect to it... imagine you're down 4:1 in ab a few min in. Okay now imagine same thing but it's the 10th time in a row and the last 9 led to 20m losses. I've played both sides, I hear you, but there is a loss mentality to it.
Imagine Qing into your 7th BG you look at whos in there. You see 6 shamans, 4 priest, 4 hunters. You look at your second monitor and turn on netflix.
Alliance has the advantage in WSG given equal skilled/organised players, in my opinion. So many of the jumps / gate runs are impossible for most horde races and extremely easy for alliance. The fence one on alliance tunnel roof is most egregious. The reason horde wins mostly (I am horde and have an almost 90% win rate) is because it's a 20+ minute queue if you go solo on horde so we queue as groups of 5 and almost every group will try to have a flag carrier and a healer. Alliance don't seem to premade so much, and when they do, they don't tailor their comps very well. I face a lot of alliance who don't have a flag carrier or a single healer, and those games are basically free wins.
> Anyone suggesting its some insane RP situation like Alliance having a loss mentality are either coping or up their own ass. I play both factions and I've got to say Alliance just give up way easier for some reason. After 1 lost mid fight at least 1 person is going to soft AFK. I don't think Horde has better pugs TBH they are just frothing. Like I'm not even joking every game there is at least 1 guy talking about how much he hates Alliance and yelling things like "CHARGE FOR THE HORDE!"
What are you talking about bro alliance is still 3:1 to horde
Cause every horde race is hunched over like they are about to get it over the couch
Good explanation but sadly I have to say, suck it pally lovers.
Paladins still massively outperform shamans in group pvp if played correctly. Unsure why you say it’s the opposite.
This is so wrong now with SoD changes shamans are powerhouses
Except Alliance do have a loss mentality. It's very easy to see when players just immediately fold after the first big fight. Alliance players constantly just wait in their own GY in a pug vs pug game because they've convinced themselves they can't win that game after going down 1-0 and have fast enough queues to get into the next one asap. Horde racials aren't far superior, but they are definitely better, with Paladins still giving Alliance a slight advantage (at least at 60). In SOD, Alliance doesn't have the same class advantage. All that is true. But having played alliance last time around when we had instant queues, the greatest contributing factor was morale and instant queues. Beyond that, horde pugs just tried harder in PvP (more likely to use pvp abilities instead of just DPSing, more likely to focus targets, more likely to use consumes/engineering, etc.). That trend is definitely still true in SOD. I haven't seen nearly as many afk/bot issues this time around, but those also tend to more negatively impact the faster queue faction. Last is the knock on effect of pugs performing badly. As the pug experience got worse and worse back in 2019 Classic, more and more players who cared about winning gravitated toward premades. All the sweaties ranked up asap, and they did it in premades, so over time the quality of Alliance pugs became absolutely trash. That seems to be happening again as well.
The cope to STILL call paladins better is hilarious
Did you not read the part that says, "In SOD, Alliance doesn't have the same class advantage," or do you struggle with reading?
It’s so bad and I didn’t fully realize until I switched from wsg to AB. AB is sooo much better. Everyone is actually playing and engaged most of the time. Must be because there isn’t really any great pve gear from AB.
I play horde and love me some AB. The groups I'm in win probably 8-9/10 games. I love winning but it feels off
Yes AB is much more balanced, had some very good and close games even when you queue solo.
Shaman was outrageously OP in pvp for basically all of phase 2. Then for phase 3 they BUFFED ele. Now with the recent pvp changes enh is back on top. Because shamans is only available to horde, pvp as a whole has been catastrophically damaged, because the faction without the overwhelmingly best class simply can't compete. BGs might as well not exist for alliance players. Alliance has been at a severe disadvantage for a very long time at this point and the devs have done everything they can to ignore the problem. Because of that, all of the serious pvpers who would like to play alliance either swapped to horde out of necessity or just quit playing. I don't think the problem is solvable tbh. Once you let the cat out of the bag and allow faction imbalance to become this one sided, a bunch of inertia builds up and simply balancing things again isn't enough to persuade enough people to return to the previously weaker faction. I genuinely think pvp is ruined for the rest of SoD. It's sad, but that's how things work in games like this. If they had nerfed shamans into the ground after a week or two, before everyone rerolled or quit, things probably would have recovered. But now it's way too late. Even if they nerfed shamans and buffed paladins to be as strong as shamans used to be, not enough people would come back.
For phase 4 i wish for a way to acquire stun resist for alliance, similar to orc racial, maybe 5% less proc chance, just like i wish they will only give horde 3 weapon skill instead of making human racial useless I would also like a change to the engineering bracers to work like horde racial on maybe a 5 min cd instead of a 10 min cd that only gives you a 10sec budget fearward like it is implemented currently These should have upgraded versions at 60 imo
> Now with the recent pvp changes enh is back on top On top of ... WHAT? Damage, survivability, utility, disruption? Apparently you haven't played a Shaman before, and it clearly shows
Honestly it’s not just shamans. I have been in a lot of games as horde where we don’t even have a shaman at all and we still win 90% +
That's because no one who cares about winning is queueing on Alliance because why would they when there's a good chance they'll just get rolled by shamans? Rather just go and do something else with my time.
Then why queue at all?
For honor.. alot of pvp gear stuff is bis for many classes
Right but if you want honor why wouldn’t you care about winning?
Yeah like cry on Reddit
That's because the vast majority of decent pvpers/people that actually want to win left alliance for horde or quit already.
hunter and boomie is higher burst.
They didn't buff them. Way of earth was the only time shaman were overpowered. Paladins were two shotting me in their 4 second 1minute cd stun up until they started tweaking this reduction in damage. The weird thing is my wsg experience in solo queue is pretty even. Ab weekend seems to be horde wins but they are close.
True :) all the shamans are just good man, especially enhancement shamans, just kite them bro! Frost shock constantly, freedom totem, insta offheals etc doesnt matter! They are not op at all! My top rating in arena in 1300 btw so I know what im talking about
Once every 5 min a paladin can be immortal for 10 seconds (but attack 100% slower) For the other 4 min 50 seconds shaman can delete them in 2 gcds Other than that, both sides have the same classes and horde have some nicer racials for PvP Horde will tell you despite having the same classes being played by players who clicked red or blue, that somehow all the people who play to win clicked red Shammies are the issue at the moment and the huge win loss disparity makes it glaringly obvious
Judging by the number of kills in bgs at the moment it seems to be hunters. This was during the age reduction and after
Hunter cranks damage yeah, but is honestly so much easier to deal with.
Guess what class can cleanse 5 poisons in 1 gcd
I have been in a ton of games as horde where we have zero shamans and we still win every game
you still have the stronger racials.
Everyone can/could delete everyone. Burst damage is crazy high against our tiny health pools. Alliance are just big babies because they are used to shaman being a free hk. Paladins were two shotting me in their 4 second 1minute cd stun up until they started tweaking this reduction in damage over the last two weekends. It'll be interesting to see the new balance after they have decided where to leave it. Also it's not one shield, it's lay on hands, stun and the other shield which works against half the damage in the game.
dont use 1h cd lay on hands in a pvp argument lol. agree with the rest of the post though. ret paladins have good burst but alliance players arent good. they dont use their utility at all. a ret will run in 1v5 and try to blow someone up and be like "what gives why are paladins so weak?" when they have to immediately bubble and cut their damage in half. though blessing of protection can be purged. shamans beat paladins 1v1 but i don't think the game should be balanced around 1v1.
Ret Pals have good burst provided: * Seal of Command procs and crits * Melee crits for Exorcism resets Beside that, their damage is laughable. HoJ and bad RNG? That's a 80% HP player walking away from you.
u can say that for any class lol. stuff procs? good damage. stuff doesnt proc? bad damage.
SPriests, Boomies, Mages, Warlocks, Rogues. Pretty sure none of those heavily rely on procs to deal solid damage.
"2 GCD" are you seriously crying about ele? A class with no inherent pushback protection and has to hard cast spells?
They win at sitting in ashenvale incursions ramp all day tho
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well.. shamans weren't broken in p1, it was mainly hunters priests and boomkins, so there was no strong faction restricted class, unlike now.
Shaman diff, shamans didn't have burst potential in p1, they do now. Paladins are generally considered better at high level of play but when it comes to pugs burst will always beat utility because you will never be organized enough to get the full value out of a paladin but a shammy nuking you in two gcds is always going to have mostly the same value.
Paladins were busted p1
Lol?
Such insane revisionism by some people it’s crazy. Hunters, priests, and boomies dominated p1.
paladins were also busted, but most people have no clue how to play them (which circles back to the main topic of this post)
I mean shamans being overtuned for PvP probably has nothing to do with it
Make your own premade, assign a druid as FC, tell a healer to follow him and tell the rest of your guys to engage the horde in the middle right out of the gate while the FC runs past. If you win the first fight you push them towards GY and basically repeat. Obviously you need some communication underway incase they have Defenders in flagroom. You also need to keep an eye out for EFC but if you successfully beat them in the first mid fight it shouldnt be a problem to pull back and swarm him. This is the simplest way I can explain the winning strategy in an ideal game. Could have left out the last paragraph there but I figure its nice with some elaboration. On a sidenote you should pick up the nifty pocket watch and skull of impending doom if you havent already - in case you do need to flag carry :-)
With premades being banned and all the good pumpers doing this content in phase 1, only the dregs and casuals are left doing bgs
Yes horse have shaman and we have paladin. Ggwp on that alone. Not too mention they premade a lot more often
Do AB. 70% win rate solo queue as alliance. If you need WS rep just do the daily.
you don't have any hero classes or hero races on your side so it's natural to lose
Shamans are a hero class. Horde like to cope and say they are just better pvpers but ask anyone outside of reddit and they will say ya shamans are incredibly strong in pvp.
Yes, your bloodline is weak and you will be forgotten.
Its simple really, You either need shamans to win, oh wait alliance dont have em Or More shadow priests than enhs But with pvp nerfs enhs kinda on top now.
Horde win BGs, without shamans
Why does everybody talk about long q times horde has like 1 min q on sod
Yes, because alliance has been known since day 1 of classic era to give up early because of shorter queues. The fact shamans are way stronger than paladins in SoD doesn't help either.
It's horrific, all Blizz need to do is fix the horde matchmaking bug so that they don't insta queue in a group rather than solo, and you'll actually start to see good games like at the start of P2. People say "well just make a premade" but the only way to have fun and not get wanked on by priest shaman premades every single match, shouldn't be to have to make a premade. I'll end up quitting entirely because of the state of PVP in SoD, I'm certain
For some reason the alliance have a lose mentality and lose fast. There are very little alliance players who actually know ot care what to do in BG's This may be because some BIS gear is looked behind exalted WSG rep and you get the pve'ers dragged into BG's for the rep Even in wpvp on a pvp server alliance don't want to participate. I have no idea how this came about though.
I always thought it's because everyone who's really into pvp already did all the rep and whatnot in P1 and P2. I had much better luck back then.
The reason is shamans, at least partly - Alliance currently feel they can't win a fair fight because of class balance.
Lol cope. Alliance can’t win a fair fight because they suck. They’ve always sucked and will always suck. It has to do with the aesthetics more than anything. Pvp minded people will roll horde because the horde races look badass while the pansies will play alliance because alliances races look like pansies. I mean seriously, who plays a human in a fantasy game? I’ll tell you who, people who suck at pvp.
>because the horde races look badass while the pansies will play alliance because alliances races look like pansies. spoken like a true 12 year old lmfao
Enjoy being free honor ✌️
Enjoy being free honor ✌️
A bunch of bullshit
W/e dude. Keep coping with those losses 👌
Im multi-glad Human Warrior and player since Vanilla and enjoy my Human in SoD too. Let people enjoy things and be more open minded. It will make your life happier
Riiiiiiiight 😂
This is the most Cringe inducing shit I’ve ever read. Horde super Epic badass! Alliance puny! Do you actually believe this for real or is this ragebait?
Hello free honor ✌️
The majority of alliance are so used to losing they don't play BGs by the objectives, they just act like every BG is a team death match even when the alliance team is significantly better than the horde team and could easily win.
They are weak minded
Ive struggled with this for a long time and there are only 2 solutions: 1. Make a 10 man premade (2 groups of 5 que at same time, only accept que if both groups get the pop at the same time) WITH discord, with a good comp with at least 3 healers, and with geared dps (atm 3k hp or more unbuf is a good metric to go by). Having 3 healers alone GREATLY increses chances of victory, most games it seems like theres 0 or 1 healer. Communication also helps a lot. As a flag carry, i like to ask my teammates if flag room is safe to jump down, or if theres enemies in our tunnel... or in AB, we need to know where horde are heading, and how many; also need people who will listen when you demand 2 defenders on each node at all times. 2. Be a good flag carry. This alone can win games. I've picked up flag carrying recently and while it is very hard at first, with a steep learning curve, this makes all the difference in the world. Being a druid with FAPS, rocket helm, nades, sleep chest, rocket boots and stopwatch and knowing the most important WSG jumps made a HUGE in my winrate. Im not a great FC but id say I already increased my solo winrate from 30% to like 60 or 70%.
Honestly, you have more wins than I expected.
Horde plays premades to even find a match. Whatever else people will tell you in this thread is second to that. Finding yourself a good FC druid to play with is your best bet to impact the games tbh because people don't seem to want to win on alliance anymore, just accepting fast losses for more honor.
alliance are generally shitters who get carried in pve by racials and paladins and afk through AV to get pvp gear
New to WoW?
Easy to make your own team. You need a druid flag carrier. You a warlock will be fine. You need a shadow/heals priest. You need a ranged hunter. And the last spot is flex. Probably a warrior but could be a paladin since your alliance. The priest and paladin can be either or but one has to be heals. Mage and rogue are not great currently in WSG unless they are an all star master of their class.
Generally speaking, yes. From what I understand Horde tend to run more “premades” because their queue times are longer and queue’ing solo is very inefficient for them. So, by virtue of having a premade they already have more cohesion than solo queueing Alliance players. They tend to build out a comp that gives them all the right elements such as flag carrying, CC, healing, damage, etc. Again, because they wait a lot longer for games than we (Alliance) do they have to make every game count. They likely go so far as to require comms. Alliance have the luxury of 1 minute queues. So, most alliance are pretty chill solo queuing and just farming HKs. If we win it’s a bonus. Although, I have noticed that if you (the individual player) play an active role in trying to coordinate your team you’ll sometimes get something that resembles a team to coalesce and you have a better chance to win. But 50/50 is probably the best you’re going to do solo queueing unless you join a premade.
since day one of WoW, brother
Play Cata or retail my boy, alliance wins most bgs in both. Fun!
Yeah, when solo queuing my win % in either of the BGs was around 10-20% in p2. Haven’t done it much this phase though.
Alliance are trash, always have been, pretty simple. (feed me alliance tears you shitters)
So horde tunnel is just far superior for the stupid druid flag shuffle terrain exploiting. Match that with a combination of racials and **the fact horde are incentivized to group to avoid queue times vs solo alliance players** aaaaaand you can figure it out. Also it was hilarious watching enhance shamans with the 30/50% dmg nerf still obliterate people.
Yep. Its misery pugging as alliance, especially WSG. I’ll only ever do it on a wsg weekend when ranking (7 anyway) and on LF US alliance there are never 10 stack, maybe some 5s during not weekend. Sometimes 10 stack on weekend but not often. Alliance sucks in AB too but genuinely more tolerable. WSG is just awful without a premade, at least 5s
We should just delete alliance and make Azeroth for the horde!
Met 8 Shamans in AB this mornign. Eight. Obviously they didn't even had 0 death before reaching 5:0. This is a fucking joke. Why THE FUCK are we paying Blizzard money for doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? It's so fucking stupid.
Don’t have any advice for you and Blizzard doesn’t care. Even if you queue up with 1-2 friends you gonna have a bad time. You get matched vs living flame premades pretty much all the time.
I got banned for 1 week after going on a 15 game losing streak of 0-3 losses with only 500 rep left till exalted. At that point I let WSG get to me and the melt down came shortly after. I managed to limp to exalted and never again will solo queue wsg on ally side. people will blame racials, shamans, God, anything but the brain dead players on ally side who give up after seeing more than 2 shamans or horde getting the first cap. It was a pitiful experience
There is a greater chance that a shaman will heal a fellow player, than a ret paladin ever consider doing that.
Doesn't matter if we do because ain't nothing out healing shaman and one other player attacking the guy you're healing. In Era if I can freecast holy lights, my target will live forever as long as I have maja unless it's like 10v2 with MS. I can outheal some non-OP classes for a short time usually but that's it.
The alliance organized pvp comment is completely bullshit. Horde teams were winning tournaments in 2019 classic because of shamans still. Chain lightning burst was too strong.
Yes
Don't worry about shamans, paladins can bubble once every 5 mins.
Is it normal for SOD yes. For normal classic No. Are the devs to blame, Yes.
Go next brother
Alliance is mostly soloplayers. Horde in WSG is always 2x 5 player groups.
theres a reason for this horde solo que= 22 minutes horde 5 man que= instant most people just type LFM AB in trade and invite the first who pm
Alliance is actually atrocious at PvP in SoD Horde normally had the advantage even in classic 2019 but this is on a whole other level An example I can point to is I was in an AB the other day, we had BS, Farm and GM Alliance had 10+ at LM and refused to advance even though there were only two of us defending farm. They kept advancing down the ramp towards us a bit but anytime we would start to approach them (just two of us) they would all turn around and run back up the hill to LM They would have stomped us, and it wasn’t because the game was over either, this was early, like sub 500 pts a team We didn’t have some big force at BS either. They just refused to even try People in here will point to shamans as the reason why, but I have been in dozens of games with zero shamans on our team and we still wipe the floor with allies Our queues are quite long so people are motivated to win and communication is usually really good
Yes
Never been so happy that I decided to roll shaman when SoD came out 😎
Starting in P2 the notion that Shamans were OP lead to players discouraged from doing BGs. As they became increasingly discouraged from doing BGs they begin to mentally accept its over when shaman que into them. They then proceed to decided what’s the point just lose fast for a mark. I’m not here to say if shaman are weak, balanced, or OP. That doesn’t matter. The PERCEPTION that they were OP lead to Alliance players giving up entirely. Good players start doing the more efficient once-a-day 1k rep or doing AB for Honor. This leaves WSG with a small pool of players who mostly just want to get it over with fast.
Horde is just beter, delete your char and start over
Alliance have insta ques, Q again is their slogan. Meanwhile horde have 30min ques so they take it semi serious because they are waiting so long to get it.
Yes. The win rate has nothing to do with the power of racials and Shamans in pvp. It is the ally players who are bad. /s
Lol cope. Alliance can’t win a fair fight because they suck. They’ve always sucked and will always suck. It has to do with the aesthetics more than anything. Pvp minded people will roll horde because the horde races look badass while the pansies will play alliance because alliances races look like pansies. I mean seriously, who plays a human in a fantasy game? I’ll tell you who, people who suck at pvp.
Horde have 1 min queues in a group
And there ya go is the answer even more. Alliance can not premade Qs are insane long, Meanwhile horde can insta Q premades.
You must be new here
Alliance pugs are pretty lame. Id recommend joining a premade. I have had way better luck doing premades then not. Communication makes a big difference with pvp. Discord helps immensely
I wonder how much impact a faction change option would have. Goin Alliance because of my guild was the worst mistake in my WoW "career" (established 2004).
Yes.
Yes... well... yeah If you wanna win pvp you need to be horde, been like that since vanilla. Only thing alliance used to win was alterac valley
What isn't normal is thinking this isn't normal. I love our cities and towns, but I hate our armies.
Shamans.
I queued as horde the other day, got put on alliance with an entire team of horde players, and then we still lost. Yes. That’s how it be.
In classic? Yes. Horde got more bad players with the launch of belves, but before all of the casuals went to alliance because of looking good.
To all the ally saying horde have better pvp racials, which ones? Am i crazy for thinking will of the forsaken is on par with stone form? Is gnome intel and escape arist worse than 2% stam and 3 sec stun every 2 mins? +5 axes paired with Ap but 50% less healing better than +5 to swords and better invis sight? Increased attack speed vs shadowmeld? What am i missing? Is commanding presences really what makes horde better? (Orc passive for pets). Maybe its troll passive for bows???? So far all i see is i agree horde amke better hunters/locks(if demo) :P
Stomp is amazing on Shamans as it matches Lava Burst cast time perfectly.
1. Yes 2. They're about the same (the active ones), I prefer Stomp though 3. Yes 4. Depends on the situation, but overrall, yes? A. Speed should be better 5. Nope, of course not, but it adds up if you want, better than nothing Oops, you forgot the 25% permanent stun resist chance that Orcs got, probably irrelevant too
Dude left out the most important racial 🤣
Which is a counter to all of 1 class, rogues. Pallies to a lesser extent because their stun is on a cd. Alliance suck because they’ve always sucked. Even when alliance had the better pvp racials in wrath they still got curbstomped.
Alright so let’s break it down: Who has stuns? Rogues Paladins Warriors Druids To a much lesser extent: hunter & mage procs Obviously yes it is much worse on rogues. But it affects many classes. Additionally, in PvP the most dangerous/impactful thing you can have happen to you is. . . losing control of your character right? Which loss of control affects _also_ let you damage someone during? Hint: one of them is stun. Stun is the only CC in the game that _will not_ break on damage, making it by far the most important cc to avoid. What’s the second most common one? Ah, fear. Right, right. Having played both sides over the years, yes horde is typically the more avid/skillful players on average. Alliance used to tend to have a very high end (vampire clan as an example). Alliance had the dominant meta for WSG in classic for sure. But let’s not downplay how incredibly strong orc racial is. I mean it is straight bonkers compared to everything else.
Wotf is mainly a counter for locks and priests How do you not think stoneform is a counter for rogues /warriors? That seems even. Why? If i activate bloodrage i cant heal the same, if you get some heavy hits in im done. As a shaman i cant even heal myself with -50% on top of the reduction in place. Axes vs swords is pretty even, iv been caught so many times with perception i dont see how it isnt good. Idk what 5 is linked too, the shawdowmeld? Ill give you thag nighelfs kinda get shafted. But ive seen shadowmeld work in pvp, is it better than attack speed, yeah. But its based on health lost, full health is small gains. Hardness i guess but its not a garenteed resist. I can count the number of times ive resisted pally stun on one hand. Been pvping all sod. Not that your wrong, big picture that is an advantage.
1. Warriors too. They also got a fear. Fear is everywhere though. Priests literally AoE fear you every 30 seconds. So yeah, Will is pretty valuable here. Stoneform is mostly used to break Blind, no? So when fighting a Rogue you won't use it to just "cleanse" yourself off of poisons anyway. Against Warriors maybe, but it's not like that huge of a deal. They will reapply the bleeds right after. 2. So you're a Shaman. Yes, you can't heal the same while you activate Bloodrage, but the keyword here is "activate". You do it when you want, when the time is right. You don't even have to use it at all and that's also okay if you don't wanna risk dying. Just use it to push for a kill / your HP is good at that moment. Also 2. Perception. It's good indeed, never said it wasn't, BUT, it has a huge problem, that it requires you to activate it BEFORE you start the fight. Most of the time you will just get sapped / cheap shotted anyway, because you have no idea a Rogue is lurking around you. 3. Yes, Shadowmeld can work for PvP, that's why I said in the previous comment, that it depends between the two. Element of surprise can be a thing for sure, I saw it in action too, I just prefer more attack speed to push in for a kill or something. Don't really play a Troll, but that's what I'd do if I were one, I'm not into stealth business. 4. For me it's the opposite, lol. On my Paladin, my stun gets resisted by Orcs most of the time. Like 6/7 out of 10 times. It's pretty rough considering it's on 1 min CD too.
Stone is all diseases, posions, and bleeds. So its not just blind. So its not just rogues. Hunter, rogue ,warrior, druid. Both blood and perc are both active. Ima feral so no tele for me, i get caught. Id never pop blood for the kill, getting greedy is how you die too. Attack speed is ok if your near dead but full health its a small increase. Gnomes perma intel is better. They are both small but gnomes is on permanently.
As a Warrior Perception is completely useless, if i want to find a stealthed player i can just spam Demo Shout.
Ur actually trolling if you don’t think off stun resist and will of forsaken aren’t better by miles
No im asking. You wana be a dick be a dick i guess, thanks.
[удалено]
Fear ward being given to horde lol
Gnome intel barely matters, but yes escape artist is a good racial The +5 axes and +5 swords will be irrelevant in P4 when every race gets a weapon spec Perception has always been just OK but now rogues have a teleport, making it not so great Shadowmeld is nice but very niche Meanwhile Orcs get a very huge 25% stun resist while Undead get a 5s immunity to fear which hits 3 classes
Its all pretty niche / situational. So far orc is really the only one im seeing a big advantage with the rest have matches whether ally wana admit or not. Ferals done have tele.
How is WotF niche or situational, it negates the CC of 3 classes
Because thats what situational means. So worf is good for fighting shaman? Also what niche means.
true vanilla experience
Go horde dude
In Classic Alliance PUGs we’re sucking dick in all of PvP. Idk how that translates to todays issues. What you can do to have an impact on your WSG games, is learning how to effectively carry the flag. You probably need to play the correct class for that, though. Or you could learn how to defend the flag, but there you have a lot less impact. Generally if you start dominating the game with your superior flag carrying abilities, then your team will kinda catch some wind into their sails and start playing at least a bit more seriously. There’s a streamer TiltedX, who used to play a Gnome Mage solo queueing WSG and he was absolutely owning. Not sure what rave he plays now, but he still streams , most probably WSG.
It doesn't matter how fucking good your flag carrying skill is if the rest of your team isn't supporting you because they're being afk camped in the gy. It only takes one or two players to shut down a flag carrier with no support.
Watch TiltedX play.
I see “I do well…” and “no amount of FAPs can save me” There’s a lot of “I” and “Me” talk in there. Horde have a very “We” and “Us” mentality. BG’s are won in trade chat before you even queue. There is nothing an individual can do that will stop a team. Alliance all think they’re the main character of their own story. We’re a horde of bloodthirsty rejects. There is a lot of ludonarrative consistency with this framing in my experience. Ally think they’re all King Arthur and want a world full of justice. Horde will camp your body just for the fun of it.
Not sure how serious this post is but no, WoW players are basically the same on both sides. I've played both factions and heard "alliance/horde sucks at pvp, I hate this, you're all braindead, why do I even queue" on both factions. Shamans are OP at the moment, though.
+1 for rp but players are players only difference is enhancement.
But then why do they always lose BG’s? OP isn’t being hyperbolic.
Horde has better PvP players because of their superior racials and superior faction specific class
Because alliance doesn't have shamans.