Just as a note: copying the battles might not work as you want. It's going to make tokens for the copies. When a battle has 0 defense you exile the battle and can then cast the other side. When a token leaves the battlefield it's just gone, so there is nothing that can be cast.
In short, with the battle tokens you can never get the back side of the card.
I kind of like the idea of creating special battle tokens for this guy which do exactly that (incentivise opponents to attack and their defenders to block), though I can't exactly think of a really good way to do that right now
How about "whenever this battle takes damage, put a +1/+1 counter on each creature that damaged it" and "when this battle leaves the battlefield, the opponent it was attached to loses life equal to the damage delt to the battle this turn" then give the battle 5 or so health. It'd make large attacks on the battle dangerous and buff small attackers. Just an idea.
Perhaps a token battle that, when flipped, becomes an enchantment that says "When this becomes an enchantment, put it onto the battlefield under the control of the player who removed the last defense counter from Token Invasion. Creatures you control get +1/+1 for each Battle you control or are defending."
Could be could have something like “Creatures must attack a battle if able.” Kinda bites you too, but it also gets your opponents to help get your battle transformed.
While true for Siege Battles, future uses of the type might still work differently (off the top of my head - defensive battles where your opponents can attack them and you get a benefit as long as you control that battle (perhaps tokens linked to the battle's survival, beneficial upkeep triggers, static abilities, sacrifice as a sorcery for a bigger payout depending on how long the battle has survived, etc), or cooperative battles which hurt everyone until removed)
"For each opponent, copy" or "copy that spell for each opponent" is different than "Each opponent copies". The main difference being you get the copies in the former version.
Honestly a sweet damn commander it just needs a few more battles to actually be printed, besides the few wording things and unflippable battles solid 10/10 no other comments needed.
Oh actually one thing good work on the colors every other battle commander I've seen is wubrg but these make a lot more sense as long as the cards actually exist
Another commenter suggested token battles, which could be neat, something like Incubator tokens that gave a keyword or an anthem effect. Perhaps even a cumulative effect that scales with the amount of the tokens you control
There's at least a few cards I know of in normal magic that don't specify that. "You may put this card in your hand" without extra saying that if you don't, it stays in the library. It's just unneeded extra words.
What do you mean by where do you put it and how long are you able to cheat it?
It's casting a battle spell, it follows normal casting rules.
I'm pretty sure "copy for each opponent" actually requires all of the battles to go to one opponent since it doesn't let you change targets.
I now see your point, if only you had included that in your initial comment instead of just leaving an unhelpful numbered list.
For this card to work, it should probably have a line like this:
"You may search your library for a battle card and exile it/put it into your graveyard. You may cast it without paying its mana cost this turn. Then, shuffle your library."
I think both exile and graveyard should work for this, and I think graveyard is cooler
Point. I'm a bit out of practice, and completely forgot most of the actual syntax for this kind of effect.
How does this sound:
Emerge from Battle 3RRWWBB *(You may cast this spell by sacrificing a battle and paying the emerge cost reduced by that battle’s mana value.)*
Trample, haste, first strike
When Ristur enters, search your library for a Battle card and exile it. You may cast it without paying its mana cost. Then, shuffle. If Ristur Emerged, repeat this process X times, where X is the number of opponents you have.
Creatures you control get +1/+1 for each battle on the battlefield.
>1: where do you put the battle card?
Although not common, you can cast the spell from your library, which is what this card would do. If you mean "where does it go after it resolves?" then it goes on the battlefield because that's what happens when a battle spell resolves.
>2: how long are you able to cheat it out for?
You just cast it, if it resolves it stays on the battlefield indefinitely (until the game ends, someone removes it...)
>3: you forgot "then shuffle"
It's not exactly required, but shuffling appears on most, if not all, cards that search the library. So you do have a good point here.
Unless the card specifies a duration like "as long as that card is exiled" or "until end of turn", any effect that says "you may cast" means NOW. You cast it immediately during the resolution of the spell/ability, and it will resolve afterwards.
The window to cast is that line of text in resolving ability. If you choose not to cast, then nothing happens and the game moves on with no more opportunity to cast. This also covers cases such as failure to find, and meets the requirement for revealing the chosen card when there are restrictions on the search (casting it makes the card public information). The only real oopsies here is the missing shuffle instruction.
I think the emerge cost on this is too high. Even sacrificing a 3-cost battle still gives you a more expensive cost. Emerge is not a trivial cost to pay, it costs you presumably a card you had to pay mana for and cast.
I can understand wanting the emerge cost to be high, but I think there’s too much mardu mana and not enough generic in the cost. I’d try removing one pip or each color and making it generic. That way sacrificing an invasion of Fiora actually gives you the full return.
No, I’m not. I’m considering that bonus to be paid for by going through the emerge process.
I just think that six mana split between three colors is an extremely steep cost that even decks with good mana bases won’t always be able to achieve.
If you’re worried about balance, I’d still just give it a larger generic cost until it feels fair. Even something like 9RWB would make sense to me. Part of what makes emerge fun is that you get to reduce the cost of your spells by a large number. Having it cap out at 3 minimizes that part of the gameplay.
I disagree. The bonus for emerging is waaayyyyy too massive. For sacrificing a 3 mana battle and a single more mana you get to get *any* battle from your deck and *triple* it while also giving your creatures +3/+3 and a small haste bonus. That is well worth the cost even strictly with CMC and cards:
-you lose 3 cmc invested, a card, and pay 6 mana for a 5 mana creature.
-you get THREE cards (that you get to pick from your library) totaling anywhere from 6 to 15 mana.
I could maybe see wanting more generic mana in the emerge but if anything the total cmc of the emerge should be even higher.
I like the battle synergy, but if I may make a suggestion. Instead of tutoring for them, exile off the top until you find a battle, and then cast it for free. If it Emerged, repeat this process, assigning one to each opponent. Would take it away from a combo-samey style like [[Light-paws]] has, and put it more into fun stuff like [[Atla Palani]]. And if the sweaty nerds feel the need to, they can still only build the deck with 3 battles, but at that point, it's a real deckbuilding cost.
Just as a note: copying the battles might not work as you want. It's going to make tokens for the copies. When a battle has 0 defense you exile the battle and can then cast the other side. When a token leaves the battlefield it's just gone, so there is nothing that can be cast. In short, with the battle tokens you can never get the back side of the card.
Good point. It would probably need to be "If Ristur emerged, repeat this process for each opponent." to get a sequence of fully functional battles.
I still like the copy idea because leaving them in play just buffs your creatures.
There's something here about thriving on meaningless conflicts
Manufactured war, also in America's colors!
Those aren't America's colours. America's jeskai.
Maybe create a colorless Eternal War token that is a Battle?
Not only that, it incentivizes opponents to attack the battles they aren't in which none of the current battles do which is interesting.
Too bad it doesn't also incentivize blocking for the token battle.
I kind of like the idea of creating special battle tokens for this guy which do exactly that (incentivise opponents to attack and their defenders to block), though I can't exactly think of a really good way to do that right now
How about "whenever this battle takes damage, put a +1/+1 counter on each creature that damaged it" and "when this battle leaves the battlefield, the opponent it was attached to loses life equal to the damage delt to the battle this turn" then give the battle 5 or so health. It'd make large attacks on the battle dangerous and buff small attackers. Just an idea.
Or you could invent a defined battle token type (like the phyrexian/incubator token)
Perhaps a token battle that, when flipped, becomes an enchantment that says "When this becomes an enchantment, put it onto the battlefield under the control of the player who removed the last defense counter from Token Invasion. Creatures you control get +1/+1 for each Battle you control or are defending."
I like that, it's got a classic "build-around floor of one" vibe to it that limited cards often have.
Could be could have something like “Creatures must attack a battle if able.” Kinda bites you too, but it also gets your opponents to help get your battle transformed.
While true for Siege Battles, future uses of the type might still work differently (off the top of my head - defensive battles where your opponents can attack them and you get a benefit as long as you control that battle (perhaps tokens linked to the battle's survival, beneficial upkeep triggers, static abilities, sacrifice as a sorcery for a bigger payout depending on how long the battle has survived, etc), or cooperative battles which hurt everyone until removed)
But then you may not want to create copies for your opponents. If anything this card should specify 'sieges'
"For each opponent, copy" or "copy that spell for each opponent" is different than "Each opponent copies". The main difference being you get the copies in the former version.
what if instead it created battle tokens of a different nature? instead of having a flip side they did something else static like buffs or taxes?
Design aside, "Emerge from Battle" goes incredibly hard just on an aesthetic level.
That's the idea it built it around!
This is such a cool concept for a card, I wish emerge was used way more, you can do so many cool things with it
Thank you!
Honestly a sweet damn commander it just needs a few more battles to actually be printed, besides the few wording things and unflippable battles solid 10/10 no other comments needed.
Oh actually one thing good work on the colors every other battle commander I've seen is wubrg but these make a lot more sense as long as the cards actually exist
Another commenter suggested token battles, which could be neat, something like Incubator tokens that gave a keyword or an anthem effect. Perhaps even a cumulative effect that scales with the amount of the tokens you control
1: where do you put the battle card? 2: how long are you able to cheat it out for? 3: you forgot "then shuffle"
It just says "cast it without paying its mana cost", so it would follow all the same rules as any other battle when cast, no?
"you *may* cast it without paying its mana cost" this means you have a choice. if you choose not to cast it, where does the card go?
It remains in your library. It should get shuffled back in, but the card omitted that bit.
then the card needs to specify that.
It never tells you to move it to another zone so why would it need to tell you to leave it there?
There's at least a few cards I know of in normal magic that don't specify that. "You may put this card in your hand" without extra saying that if you don't, it stays in the library. It's just unneeded extra words.
What do you mean by where do you put it and how long are you able to cheat it? It's casting a battle spell, it follows normal casting rules. I'm pretty sure "copy for each opponent" actually requires all of the battles to go to one opponent since it doesn't let you change targets.
but where are you casting it from? and where does the card go if you choose not to cast it?
I now see your point, if only you had included that in your initial comment instead of just leaving an unhelpful numbered list. For this card to work, it should probably have a line like this: "You may search your library for a battle card and exile it/put it into your graveyard. You may cast it without paying its mana cost this turn. Then, shuffle your library." I think both exile and graveyard should work for this, and I think graveyard is cooler
Point. I'm a bit out of practice, and completely forgot most of the actual syntax for this kind of effect. How does this sound: Emerge from Battle 3RRWWBB *(You may cast this spell by sacrificing a battle and paying the emerge cost reduced by that battle’s mana value.)* Trample, haste, first strike When Ristur enters, search your library for a Battle card and exile it. You may cast it without paying its mana cost. Then, shuffle. If Ristur Emerged, repeat this process X times, where X is the number of opponents you have. Creatures you control get +1/+1 for each battle on the battlefield.
>1: where do you put the battle card? Although not common, you can cast the spell from your library, which is what this card would do. If you mean "where does it go after it resolves?" then it goes on the battlefield because that's what happens when a battle spell resolves. >2: how long are you able to cheat it out for? You just cast it, if it resolves it stays on the battlefield indefinitely (until the game ends, someone removes it...) >3: you forgot "then shuffle" It's not exactly required, but shuffling appears on most, if not all, cards that search the library. So you do have a good point here.
i'm talking about how long the "you may cast it without paying its mana cost" ability lasts. if it's indefinite, then the card needs to go to exile.
Unless the card specifies a duration like "as long as that card is exiled" or "until end of turn", any effect that says "you may cast" means NOW. You cast it immediately during the resolution of the spell/ability, and it will resolve afterwards.
The window to cast is that line of text in resolving ability. If you choose not to cast, then nothing happens and the game moves on with no more opportunity to cast. This also covers cases such as failure to find, and meets the requirement for revealing the chosen card when there are restrictions on the search (casting it makes the card public information). The only real oopsies here is the missing shuffle instruction.
I think the emerge cost on this is too high. Even sacrificing a 3-cost battle still gives you a more expensive cost. Emerge is not a trivial cost to pay, it costs you presumably a card you had to pay mana for and cast. I can understand wanting the emerge cost to be high, but I think there’s too much mardu mana and not enough generic in the cost. I’d try removing one pip or each color and making it generic. That way sacrificing an invasion of Fiora actually gives you the full return.
Are you missing the part where you get a massive bonus for having it emerge?
No, I’m not. I’m considering that bonus to be paid for by going through the emerge process. I just think that six mana split between three colors is an extremely steep cost that even decks with good mana bases won’t always be able to achieve. If you’re worried about balance, I’d still just give it a larger generic cost until it feels fair. Even something like 9RWB would make sense to me. Part of what makes emerge fun is that you get to reduce the cost of your spells by a large number. Having it cap out at 3 minimizes that part of the gameplay.
I disagree. The bonus for emerging is waaayyyyy too massive. For sacrificing a 3 mana battle and a single more mana you get to get *any* battle from your deck and *triple* it while also giving your creatures +3/+3 and a small haste bonus. That is well worth the cost even strictly with CMC and cards: -you lose 3 cmc invested, a card, and pay 6 mana for a 5 mana creature. -you get THREE cards (that you get to pick from your library) totaling anywhere from 6 to 15 mana. I could maybe see wanting more generic mana in the emerge but if anything the total cmc of the emerge should be even higher.
As I said in my second reply, if the balance is a problem, increase the generic cost. 6 pips of three colors of mana makes this extremely restrictive.
Ah, it's always nice seeing that art. Gevurah, Emanation of Judgment from Angelarium. Cool card though
Angelarium art is always top tier! Always my go to for Gods or anything abstract.
I like the battle synergy, but if I may make a suggestion. Instead of tutoring for them, exile off the top until you find a battle, and then cast it for free. If it Emerged, repeat this process, assigning one to each opponent. Would take it away from a combo-samey style like [[Light-paws]] has, and put it more into fun stuff like [[Atla Palani]]. And if the sweaty nerds feel the need to, they can still only build the deck with 3 battles, but at that point, it's a real deckbuilding cost.
[Light-paws](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39555a72-a57b-45ee-9222-ce3b9e8de126.jpg?1654566391) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=light-paws%2C%20emperor%27s%20voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/25/light-paws-emperors-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39555a72-a57b-45ee-9222-ce3b9e8de126?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Atla Palani](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b8414f7-22c3-4e1c-934b-4a0e7acf951d.jpg?1673305450) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=atla%20palani%2C%20nest%20tender) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/142/atla-palani-nest-tender?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b8414f7-22c3-4e1c-934b-4a0e7acf951d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Many battles want you to attack them down. I wonder if this should have some pay off for saccing a battle that's been ticked down a lot
Difficult to pull of though. Since battles you cast enter under the control if an opponent.
No, it's under your control, but is *defended* by an opponent. If it entered under their control, they'd get the ETB trigger.
Cool, I learned something new.