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Many men have been burned and are starting to wake up to the fact that many women will only go out with them to eat at nice places for free without any further intention.
NOT all women are like this of course, but that's the reality for a lot of men these days so they are becoming more and more reluctant to go to expensive places on first dates.
My wife has never ever paid (I never let her) but being married 20+ years, it was another time... when you went on a date it meant you were exclusive right away, and if things didn't click you would say it upfront.
My (F) view is that the first date should always be something low cost and split down the middle — meet for coffee, walk in the park, etc.
It’s absurd to expect people to shell out $$$ for a first date where no one knows if they even remotely like each other yet, simply because they use he/him pronouns.
You’re saying that, as a woman, you should get to be taken out to dinner by man after man until you meet one you really like, whereas men should have to pay for dinner after dinner with virtual strangers until they meet one they really like.
Archaic, outdated, sexist nonsense.
It’s not “putting in effort” to shell out cash for dinner, it’s just paying for shit.
I’ve said this multiple times in the past (am also female). I totally agree - women need to stop expecting free meals. I’ve heard women tell me they go on apps to set up dates just to eat for free. It’s gross. I always, always offer to split the bill.
It’s just good manners in my opinion, especially in an environment when people are on apps (which I’m not) and seeing different people every few days. It’s unreasonable for all the costs to be the mens’ responsibility when these days both men and women work equally compared to years ago when the situation was different.
Girls, dating is a part of testing if someone can be a good partner in building household and childrearing. If they don't do more for you now, wait till you are burdened with child bearing, work and house chores, suddenly you will resent him and then have to try to change him. So 50/50 is great in theory but women who buy into this 50/50 myth often end up divorcing their low effort partner when they wake up to the fact in their 40 or 50.
Again, you’re defining “effort” as “buying me shit.” And a first date with a stranger isn’t “dating” — it’s *meeting for the first time* to see if you even enjoy one another’s company.
You’re spouting out nonsense “wisdom” you heard on TikTok with absolutely zero evidence to support these ludicrous claims.
Yes, of course no one of any gender should get involved with anyone of any gender who isn’t putting in effort to be a good partner. But that has nothing to do with dudes from Tinder buying your dinner for you.
You didn’t come here for advice, you just wanted everyone to say you deserve to have strangers hand you money because you’re a woman.
Good luck with that!
Girl, I’m not attacking your way of dating. No need to be heated about this. I have paid for dinners and always make sure either I pay more or even. But it’s just my move to friend zone a guy.
I’m just curious why men complain about the lack of matches, but when they get one, they are cheap on it. They pay for silly super likes and boost on Tinder but put low effort on the dates. It doesn’t make sense for me.
Also, it’s nice of you to expect less from men. I just wonder if you ever hear about guys who take a good girl like you for granted and go spend their effort on someone else before.
The modern woman, we're all equals until it comes to initiating dating and the check arrives. Then it's straight back to 1950s and men expected to invest financially.
Take this one up with the feminists.
And conscription, and primary industries, etc.
Reminder that women on average have started earning more than men on average in the 22-29 age bracket. The roles only reverse after that but that's because the average goes down due to maternity. Discounting that, women still earn as much or more than men past 29. [https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds](https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds)
I've always offered to split on the first date. I don't want this weird situation where it feels like I owe him something (like a second date...). Maybe later on we can take turns.
Who actually pays in the end doesn't matter but I feel like it comes off as entitled nowadays to expect the guy to pay when I'm employed, financially independent and perfectly capable of covering for myself.
It is about being a gentlemen showing the leadership it doesn’t mean that you cannot pay but it is disrespect imo to let a women pay ever especially if I wanna take you on a date
Sure, I agree you can do whatever you like to show your date you care.
But I wasn't talking about what a guy should or shouldn't do, I was talking about the woman's perspective.
Respect should go both ways and I would at least make the offer to split, or to cover dessert or drinks.
It depends entirely on the man, and using dating apps is not really a defining factor here.
Personally, I don't assume I'll be paying the whole bill on a first date because, y'know, it's 2024. I might offer to pay, or I might be happy to split the bill, or even be paid for if she feels like it. Or we might even just go for a walk on a first date and then it costs nothing.
Does that mean I'm not showing more effort? No. Paying a bill is not "effort". I make the effort to scrub up, to be interesting, to be friendly, to listen, to hold conversations and to get to know the person I'm dating. There's a thousand other ways to "make an effort" that cost nothing at all, and personally I think those are far, far more valuable than the cost of a meal or whatever else.
Quite frankly, if a woman I'm on a date with thinks I'm not "making an effort" based on how much money I spend, she won't be getting a second date anyway. I'm not here for someone who considers my value as a person based on how much money I spend.
You have to assume that a girl on dating apps is talking to 20 other guys, and sleeping with 3 to 5 other guys simultaneously.
And, then the girl takes the food you pay for in a to go bag and brings it the guy she's actually fucking.
Prolly the biggest L one can take.
When I was single I went for walks with girls on first date.
75% of women have 10 or fewer partners in their lifetimes. 47% have 4 or fewer. 86% of women have 14 or fewer. (CDC, 2021)
Having sex with 5 men at the same time is not how the vast majority of women behave.
Do we?
Every woman I know thinks a compliment from another woman is 100 times better. I've had friends start crying when I've told them how much I appreciate their intelect and insight, or that they always have great ideas, or how their creativity inspires me.
Too many men give frivolous compliments they don't mean because they want to get laid. Every woman has had the experience of a guy giving a ton of compliments only to flip and start calling you names and insults because we make it clear we're not interested.
Oh my gosh. Who the heck has time to talk to 20 guys at once and sleep with 3-5 at a time? Interesting perspective you have there, and I can tell you it isn’t true.
We simply don’t have time. I get burnout talking to 3 guys at once. I’ve had sex with 2 different men in the last 13 months. And literally 11 months apart.
Most guys I talk to on the apps I don’t end up sleeping with or seeing past date 1. Getting laid is only easy if we’re willing to sleep with anyone.
No because in an equal society you (should) pay 50/50. I want a chance to get to know someone, not a meal ticket. In fact for a first date I'd avoid a meal because going awkward can get difficult and elongated pretty quickly unless you know them prior.
Of course if you know them pretty well and a second date is already on the cards, feel free to suggest taking turns.
I don't have problem with paying for all dates, but 1st dates are usually a couple drinks and apps. You both know if you are interested enough in each other in the 1st hour to know if a relationship is possible. If a woman offers to split, it's nice. If they really want too we do.
I am 28M and I usually pay on the first date on the rare instance I meet a girl on a dating app. In my last relationship she only paid once for something the whole two and a months we were together. But again, that was just how I was raised and I usually put in a lot of effort into my relationships, even if I end up being used
Women nowadays are 10x worse than 30 years ago. Dating apps is a good example why that is overestimated expectations and giving nothing in return.
I would always pay for a women you pay nothing but who is worth doing that for? Very few I can assure you.
I always pay for first date and I don’t mind the price tag of a quality restaurant with someone I might be interested in but, don’t really know very well.
I ask someone on a date , I am paying. It’s a gesture of courting I find meaningful and upholds traditional values of a relationship.
Sounds like you're going out with the wrong kind of men. Although courtship rules are dated and misogynistic they still exist. All men aren't like the ones you described, I feel that whoever asked the person on a date should pay and going forward the couple should take turns if the find a common bond.
Thankfully, I habn't had a huge issue with this. If I think there's going to be a second date, I'll let them pay for the first and I'll cover the second. Typically I know by date 2 if it's a good connection. If I'm not feeling the first date, I'll either split it or pay it outright. That said, I also don't mind low commitment coffee dates... maybe with a walk if the weather is nice.
Coffee isn't low commitment. No date is low commitment.
The first date is literally to check red flags and see if there is any reason to not have a second.
Maybe low cost is a better term. The point I was trying to make is since I like for them to pay for the first date, I don't mind if it's low cost since, as you stated, the first date is checking compatibility.
To many people think sparks need to fly and uncontrollable lust for the first date. Maybe this is what Hollywood has started ppl thinking they need for s first date.
My first dates are usually "does this person have any glaring red flags that I don't want".
My boy is your age, and from the start, he has covered me. For pretty much everything we do. I try to like, pay when I can, but he's usually pretty adamant about it. It's an uncomfortable change of pace where I have gotten so used to paying for the guys I'm seeing that I don't know what to do when someone is paying for me instead and I feel somewhat weird about it. But yeah, he's the only person your age I've dated since...I was your age...and at that time, I was dating guys like you described. So. I'm not sure what the point of my comment is. I guess that they are out there, but maybe not so common, and in ten years, things don't seem to have changed.
In my experience, the younger the guy, the more he is likely to prioritize going 50/50. Older men tend to be more chivalrous and would even get offended if you offered to pay.
Men, pay for the first date but keep your investment low. I’ve found women to be very flakey especially in the early stages.
So yes, pay but just grab coffee or a couple of drinks until at least a couple of dates in
I only date gentlemen so, yes they will pay (I do not think that it is fair that they pay) here is what I was told by one man, when I reached for the bill. I am the man I pay, that is just the way it is. Or they will fight me for the bill. If I do not get that kind of interaction, I would feel disrespected and undesirable.
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Many men have been burned and are starting to wake up to the fact that many women will only go out with them to eat at nice places for free without any further intention. NOT all women are like this of course, but that's the reality for a lot of men these days so they are becoming more and more reluctant to go to expensive places on first dates. My wife has never ever paid (I never let her) but being married 20+ years, it was another time... when you went on a date it meant you were exclusive right away, and if things didn't click you would say it upfront.
Why don't you pay for the first date?
Obviously because having a vagina means you are absolved of efforts /s
My (F) view is that the first date should always be something low cost and split down the middle — meet for coffee, walk in the park, etc. It’s absurd to expect people to shell out $$$ for a first date where no one knows if they even remotely like each other yet, simply because they use he/him pronouns. You’re saying that, as a woman, you should get to be taken out to dinner by man after man until you meet one you really like, whereas men should have to pay for dinner after dinner with virtual strangers until they meet one they really like. Archaic, outdated, sexist nonsense. It’s not “putting in effort” to shell out cash for dinner, it’s just paying for shit.
I’ve said this multiple times in the past (am also female). I totally agree - women need to stop expecting free meals. I’ve heard women tell me they go on apps to set up dates just to eat for free. It’s gross. I always, always offer to split the bill.
Honestly, thank you for confirming this and being on our side about it.
It’s just good manners in my opinion, especially in an environment when people are on apps (which I’m not) and seeing different people every few days. It’s unreasonable for all the costs to be the mens’ responsibility when these days both men and women work equally compared to years ago when the situation was different.
^ This!
Let’s have a this is the way meme, pull that up Jamie
Girls, dating is a part of testing if someone can be a good partner in building household and childrearing. If they don't do more for you now, wait till you are burdened with child bearing, work and house chores, suddenly you will resent him and then have to try to change him. So 50/50 is great in theory but women who buy into this 50/50 myth often end up divorcing their low effort partner when they wake up to the fact in their 40 or 50.
Again, you’re defining “effort” as “buying me shit.” And a first date with a stranger isn’t “dating” — it’s *meeting for the first time* to see if you even enjoy one another’s company. You’re spouting out nonsense “wisdom” you heard on TikTok with absolutely zero evidence to support these ludicrous claims. Yes, of course no one of any gender should get involved with anyone of any gender who isn’t putting in effort to be a good partner. But that has nothing to do with dudes from Tinder buying your dinner for you. You didn’t come here for advice, you just wanted everyone to say you deserve to have strangers hand you money because you’re a woman. Good luck with that!
Girl, I’m not attacking your way of dating. No need to be heated about this. I have paid for dinners and always make sure either I pay more or even. But it’s just my move to friend zone a guy. I’m just curious why men complain about the lack of matches, but when they get one, they are cheap on it. They pay for silly super likes and boost on Tinder but put low effort on the dates. It doesn’t make sense for me. Also, it’s nice of you to expect less from men. I just wonder if you ever hear about guys who take a good girl like you for granted and go spend their effort on someone else before.
I’ve been happily married more than 15 years, but sounds like you’ve got it all figured out and it works for you. Enjoy.
I usually pay, but if the woman doesn’t at least offer to split it then there’s no second date…
Why don't you show effort by paying? Equality rules.
The modern woman, we're all equals until it comes to initiating dating and the check arrives. Then it's straight back to 1950s and men expected to invest financially. Take this one up with the feminists.
And conscription, and primary industries, etc. Reminder that women on average have started earning more than men on average in the 22-29 age bracket. The roles only reverse after that but that's because the average goes down due to maternity. Discounting that, women still earn as much or more than men past 29. [https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds](https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds)
*This* modern woman maybe, but I don't think she speaks for *all* modern women.
She speaks for a lot of women, based on my experience dating a lot of them.
Where the hell are you finding these women!?
I've always offered to split on the first date. I don't want this weird situation where it feels like I owe him something (like a second date...). Maybe later on we can take turns. Who actually pays in the end doesn't matter but I feel like it comes off as entitled nowadays to expect the guy to pay when I'm employed, financially independent and perfectly capable of covering for myself.
It is about being a gentlemen showing the leadership it doesn’t mean that you cannot pay but it is disrespect imo to let a women pay ever especially if I wanna take you on a date
Sure, I agree you can do whatever you like to show your date you care. But I wasn't talking about what a guy should or shouldn't do, I was talking about the woman's perspective. Respect should go both ways and I would at least make the offer to split, or to cover dessert or drinks.
Deep down you wouldn’t want to split but if he cares enough he pays
It depends entirely on the man, and using dating apps is not really a defining factor here. Personally, I don't assume I'll be paying the whole bill on a first date because, y'know, it's 2024. I might offer to pay, or I might be happy to split the bill, or even be paid for if she feels like it. Or we might even just go for a walk on a first date and then it costs nothing. Does that mean I'm not showing more effort? No. Paying a bill is not "effort". I make the effort to scrub up, to be interesting, to be friendly, to listen, to hold conversations and to get to know the person I'm dating. There's a thousand other ways to "make an effort" that cost nothing at all, and personally I think those are far, far more valuable than the cost of a meal or whatever else. Quite frankly, if a woman I'm on a date with thinks I'm not "making an effort" based on how much money I spend, she won't be getting a second date anyway. I'm not here for someone who considers my value as a person based on how much money I spend.
fuckin thumbs up king, this is the way to be.
You have to assume that a girl on dating apps is talking to 20 other guys, and sleeping with 3 to 5 other guys simultaneously. And, then the girl takes the food you pay for in a to go bag and brings it the guy she's actually fucking. Prolly the biggest L one can take. When I was single I went for walks with girls on first date.
75% of women have 10 or fewer partners in their lifetimes. 47% have 4 or fewer. 86% of women have 14 or fewer. (CDC, 2021) Having sex with 5 men at the same time is not how the vast majority of women behave.
Sexual partners perhaps, but women speak to lots of men for validation & attention
For me, I’m just trying to get dates and meet someone for a LTR. It’s not for validation. I’ve had enough of that for one lifetime.
Do we? Every woman I know thinks a compliment from another woman is 100 times better. I've had friends start crying when I've told them how much I appreciate their intelect and insight, or that they always have great ideas, or how their creativity inspires me. Too many men give frivolous compliments they don't mean because they want to get laid. Every woman has had the experience of a guy giving a ton of compliments only to flip and start calling you names and insults because we make it clear we're not interested.
I didn’t say anything about women giving women compliments. And yes, you do
Wow, what an interesting plane of existence your mind must've been.
Plenty of guys have had this happen to them or to atleast 1 man they know. At least. You're out of touch with ground reality.
Tiggered much? :P
Yes! I'd love to meet this woman. How did she balance it all?! It's almost fantastical 🦄
Of course you like that. That's why guys don't pay for dates anymore. Or, they shouldn't.
Oh my gosh. Who the heck has time to talk to 20 guys at once and sleep with 3-5 at a time? Interesting perspective you have there, and I can tell you it isn’t true. We simply don’t have time. I get burnout talking to 3 guys at once. I’ve had sex with 2 different men in the last 13 months. And literally 11 months apart. Most guys I talk to on the apps I don’t end up sleeping with or seeing past date 1. Getting laid is only easy if we’re willing to sleep with anyone.
No because in an equal society you (should) pay 50/50. I want a chance to get to know someone, not a meal ticket. In fact for a first date I'd avoid a meal because going awkward can get difficult and elongated pretty quickly unless you know them prior. Of course if you know them pretty well and a second date is already on the cards, feel free to suggest taking turns.
I don't have problem with paying for all dates, but 1st dates are usually a couple drinks and apps. You both know if you are interested enough in each other in the 1st hour to know if a relationship is possible. If a woman offers to split, it's nice. If they really want too we do.
Typically yes
Obviously not, wtf. Split
I am 28M and I usually pay on the first date on the rare instance I meet a girl on a dating app. In my last relationship she only paid once for something the whole two and a months we were together. But again, that was just how I was raised and I usually put in a lot of effort into my relationships, even if I end up being used
Women nowadays are 10x worse than 30 years ago. Dating apps is a good example why that is overestimated expectations and giving nothing in return. I would always pay for a women you pay nothing but who is worth doing that for? Very few I can assure you.
I always pay for first date and I don’t mind the price tag of a quality restaurant with someone I might be interested in but, don’t really know very well. I ask someone on a date , I am paying. It’s a gesture of courting I find meaningful and upholds traditional values of a relationship.
Sounds like you're going out with the wrong kind of men. Although courtship rules are dated and misogynistic they still exist. All men aren't like the ones you described, I feel that whoever asked the person on a date should pay and going forward the couple should take turns if the find a common bond.
Thankfully, I habn't had a huge issue with this. If I think there's going to be a second date, I'll let them pay for the first and I'll cover the second. Typically I know by date 2 if it's a good connection. If I'm not feeling the first date, I'll either split it or pay it outright. That said, I also don't mind low commitment coffee dates... maybe with a walk if the weather is nice.
Coffee isn't low commitment. No date is low commitment. The first date is literally to check red flags and see if there is any reason to not have a second.
Maybe low cost is a better term. The point I was trying to make is since I like for them to pay for the first date, I don't mind if it's low cost since, as you stated, the first date is checking compatibility.
To many people think sparks need to fly and uncontrollable lust for the first date. Maybe this is what Hollywood has started ppl thinking they need for s first date. My first dates are usually "does this person have any glaring red flags that I don't want".
My boy is your age, and from the start, he has covered me. For pretty much everything we do. I try to like, pay when I can, but he's usually pretty adamant about it. It's an uncomfortable change of pace where I have gotten so used to paying for the guys I'm seeing that I don't know what to do when someone is paying for me instead and I feel somewhat weird about it. But yeah, he's the only person your age I've dated since...I was your age...and at that time, I was dating guys like you described. So. I'm not sure what the point of my comment is. I guess that they are out there, but maybe not so common, and in ten years, things don't seem to have changed.
I am not dating, but I always pay 1,2,3……. 10 date. But that was just me.
In my experience, the younger the guy, the more he is likely to prioritize going 50/50. Older men tend to be more chivalrous and would even get offended if you offered to pay.
Men, pay for the first date but keep your investment low. I’ve found women to be very flakey especially in the early stages. So yes, pay but just grab coffee or a couple of drinks until at least a couple of dates in
Yes men are expected to pay for all the dates. But the closer she is to 30, the cheaper place I take her to.
Whoever asked the other person should pay. You can't ask someone out and expect them to pay
I only date gentlemen so, yes they will pay (I do not think that it is fair that they pay) here is what I was told by one man, when I reached for the bill. I am the man I pay, that is just the way it is. Or they will fight me for the bill. If I do not get that kind of interaction, I would feel disrespected and undesirable.
Yes (or they should)
Yeah it’s the standard