In my city Cruz Roja (The Red Cross) association runs free Spanish courses for everyone. There is a queue there, but in my case they literally called me in 3 days after I visited them and told they start a group now.
One thing that suprised us was, since we moved to a smaller rural village to cut down costs, we were obliged by the local government to own livestock, so we got a horse.
I've spent most years living in the heart of big cities but now I'm out in the country and I'm always blown away by how "empty" the country feels outside of Madrid, a couple of medium-sized cities like Sevilla, and the coasts.
It has also been interesting how, even though we are away from things, so many people are from all over. Many probably wouldn't classify themselves as "digital nomads" but many technically work in the UK or other parts of the EU. At least in my circle of "not too old parents in a pretty good area outside (but not too far) from Madrid" I feel like everybody around us is either from somewhere else, has lived somewhere else, or at least is well traveled. I had always assumed this was a phenomenon of living in the heart of a big city like Madrid, but I constantly see it outside of the city, too, where you barely hear any other language except Spanish and most people are more or less formally established here. It's definitely more of a "class" thing, I guess, but it is nice to run into so many worldly people everywhere you go. That said, I highly recommend looking outside of the big city even if you ultimately land in one. There is so much to see on this peninsula and everything isn't just Madrid, Barcelona, and Lisbon.
I wasn't expecting the honeymoon phase to wear off...
Not to disparage Spain, it is a fun place with lots of good characteristics, but after a few months it stopped seeming so magical and I realized I like other places more
If you are a westerner, the word immigrant is thrown around more because historically the more popular western countries were and are places where immigration happens. In terms of the US, there are infinitely more immigrants than expats because of the nature of how the visa system works. Generally also, the more western countries also rely on immigration more to keep their population stable as the birth rate tends to drop. Case in point. Look at Korea and Japan where they don't have white immigrants but white expats, birth rates are low and are called expats because generally they don't stay and make a permanent home there. I would also like to say that you don't seem like a digital nomad because you clearly have never met anyone or traveled much to not have noticed this.
Expats - temporarily living, often on a work/extended travel type of visa. For instance, English teachers in Asia (expat) because often they re not a path towards citizenship or permanent resident visa.
Immigrants - moving to another country for whatever reason and on a residency visa to citizenship or on a path towards residency visa.
No, it's not. People keep posting that here but it's not accurate.
Expat has always just referred to anyone residing in another country. There is nothing about "expat" that is meant to imply temporary
Oxford dictionary;
Immigrant: noun. /ˈɪmɪɡrənt/ /ˈɪmɪɡrənt/ a person who has come to live 'permanently' in a different country from the one they were born in.
Expatriate: also informal expat. /ˈekspæt/ /ˈekspæt/ ) a person living in a country that is not their own.
Just because you don't like the word immigrant to be used for a certain type of people doesn't mean it's wrong.
Edit: If I left my country to retire or live permanently in another country I would be an immigrant, if I don't plan to stay in another country permanently I am an expat. Stop trying to change the meaning of a word due to what you think is 'right'.
You are right with the technicalities of the word. But I’ve never heard a British/USA person referred to as an immigrant, when they have the intention to stay in said country.
Again, just because it's used for a certain type of people doesn't mean it's wrong and you should be brave enough to say what you really think and not dance around the fact that you don't like how white people aren't called immigrants in 'society'. It's not a technicality it is quite literally the definition of the word and has nothing to do with where you are from.
I am a British person and I said in my comment that I would be an immigrant if I moved to another country permanently.
You're not even able to be honest with your feelings but felt the need to comment echoing the same thing that I disproved? You are one of those people that secretly hate and work against others which is so much worse than someone who doesn't hide their racism.
The word immigrant comes from the word immigrate which means to move from your home country permanently.
immigrate. / (ˈɪmɪˌɡreɪt) / verb. (intr) to come to a place or country of which one is not a native in order to settle thereCompare emigrate.
If you're upset about something do something about it instead of trying to make things up.
You specifically said, you never hear British/US people being called an immigrant?
What else is it that you could mean by that other than meaning you don't like how other people are called an immigrant and some aren't?
If they are not an immigrant it doesn't matter where they are from.. you could of course explain what it is that you meant instead of trying to insult someone?
Again, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not true.
In the US, we use the word immigrant more often because we have a huge number of foreigners who come to live and become US citizens. No one really is an expat in the US because its not a great or easy place to live temporarily. There are some people who get work visas but more often than not, they have h1bs that they are trying to win the green card lottery.
This is straight from google.
immigrant - a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.
expatriate -
[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/expatriate.asp#:\~:text=Kirsten%20Rohrs%20Schmitt-,What%20Is%20an%20Expatriate%3F,become%20a%20citizen%20of%20another](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/expatriate.asp#:~:text=Kirsten%20Rohrs%20Schmitt-,What%20Is%20an%20Expatriate%3F,become%20a%20citizen%20of%20another).
it generally means that and thats how people use it. Some expats are immigrants but all immigrants are expats, in the formal definition. However expat is used for like people who are working in the country or (now a days) retiring in the country with a pension/investment. Immigrants are usually the step before they become naturalized citizens or permanent residents
Perhaps I feel stronger about this because I do not and have never felt a bad thing about immigration is my parents are immigrants. It seems like only non immigrants are getting offended by the word.
No, I find that people are getting offended by the use of expat and saying that "white" people call themselves expats and call people of color immigrants. The reality is that those words **should** describe two different scenarios. As I have descended from immigrants in terms of where I was born, I do not find this to be a real thing. If you look at the other comments in this post and other posts, there is a lot of lashing out at these "western/white" people going to foreign countries and calling themselves expats while at home, they complain about "immigrants"
Well you and I have similar backgrounds it seems and I still do not appreciate the distinction between migrant and expat. It’s the same in practice and colloquially is used to refer to people with more means or are white especially from the US. If you’re living abroad you migrated, if you are just passing through, you’re a tourist.
* Spanish bureaucracy is an absolute nightmare, worse even than I've heard. Still doable, but it is a massive, massive pain.
* Mexican food that's remotely authentic is pretty hard to come by, especially outside of like Madrid or Barcelona. There's tons of South Americans but there's less Mexicans than Americans. I do miss real Mexican food, especially corn tortillas.
* Topless sunbathing is actually pretty common in Spain, especially on the slightly less touristy beaches. Moreso than all the other countries in Europe I've visited, which surprised me some.
* Catalan/Valenciano is very common in the Catalonia region - all the street signs and most of the signage is in Catalan, which is pretty similar to Spanish but still different enough that it really threw me. Between Barcelona and Valencia you'll probably not find any situations where you can't communicate with someone in Spanish, but you'd be surprised how few conversations on the street are in castellano.
* Things shut down for siesta still. Like by 2pm most shops are closed, and reopen between 4-8pm. I'd heard the siesta had died out, and maybe in certain aspects it has, but not the schedule. Also lots of stores don't open on Sundays or only for a few hours.
* English is a pretty common lingua franca, especially in the larger cities, so it's not too hard to get around. It's far more common to hear UK accents though than Americans; I've learned the Americans go to Italy and Brits go to Spain :)
* It's very tricky to find fast food outside of McDonalds & Burger King (& 1-2 others depending on the region, like Popeyes in the east). Other countries in Europe still have like a quick fast food option readily available usually, but in Spain it's unusual to want to eat food "fast" very often; even in those restaurants people sit down for a while more often than drive through for take-out.
Immigrant is such a dirty word in the US that immigrants hate being called immigrants and must sanitize the word because immigrant means poor working class different looking “not sending their best” types.
We’re all immigrants
The title is literally about ppl moving (thus immigrating) to some countries lol.
And you are the one commenting like u have a point telling the guy there a difference while you have no clue what the difference is
It must suck to be that clueless but very confident
LPT for you; next time keep quiet and some will mistaken you for a bright person
More like people watch too much news and social media and think they know what America and Americans are like and will tell you that your country sucks immediately after asking where you're from. Meanwhile, every Spanish person I've met who have actually been to the States were very friendly and loved talking about where they had been to there.
Also, because of Franco, there's a lot of love for communism in the Spanish youth as a sort of generic rebellious spirit and this sometimes just turns into people being outright tankies. And if you're a tankie nobody is worse than the big evil American imperialists.
Personally, I’ve found that a lot of Portuguese people seem to dislike foreigners (probably from driving up prices? I dk)
But when I’m out and about I get ignored a lot, received rudely, or exasperated looks as soon as they hear my accent
It kinda sucks tbh.
A lot of their revenue relies on tourists. They have no idea whether I’m here for holiday or a long time. I don’t think they understand how fucked they would be economically without tourists (not including expats)
One thing that suprised us was the local government offers free language classes, so we didn't have to pay to study Spanish.
Do you mind sharing more information about this?
In my city Cruz Roja (The Red Cross) association runs free Spanish courses for everyone. There is a queue there, but in my case they literally called me in 3 days after I visited them and told they start a group now.
All EU countries do this.
One thing that suprised us was, since we moved to a smaller rural village to cut down costs, we were obliged by the local government to own livestock, so we got a horse.
This is super interesting? Which pueblo?
Upvoted because it was downvoted for some reason. That’s sweet.
it's Reddit, ppl down vote for any reason. hell I'll probably be down voted for saying this.
>hell I'll probably be down voted for saying this. Downvoted
Wait, *whaaat?*
I've spent most years living in the heart of big cities but now I'm out in the country and I'm always blown away by how "empty" the country feels outside of Madrid, a couple of medium-sized cities like Sevilla, and the coasts. It has also been interesting how, even though we are away from things, so many people are from all over. Many probably wouldn't classify themselves as "digital nomads" but many technically work in the UK or other parts of the EU. At least in my circle of "not too old parents in a pretty good area outside (but not too far) from Madrid" I feel like everybody around us is either from somewhere else, has lived somewhere else, or at least is well traveled. I had always assumed this was a phenomenon of living in the heart of a big city like Madrid, but I constantly see it outside of the city, too, where you barely hear any other language except Spanish and most people are more or less formally established here. It's definitely more of a "class" thing, I guess, but it is nice to run into so many worldly people everywhere you go. That said, I highly recommend looking outside of the big city even if you ultimately land in one. There is so much to see on this peninsula and everything isn't just Madrid, Barcelona, and Lisbon.
66 comments, and like 10 are actually addressing OP, and the rest are arguing about definitions between immigrant and expat.
If you're white and have a computer job they call you an "expat," otherwise they call you an immigrant.
I wasn't expecting the honeymoon phase to wear off... Not to disparage Spain, it is a fun place with lots of good characteristics, but after a few months it stopped seeming so magical and I realized I like other places more
What began to wear on you in Spain?
That has happened in every city I’ve lived. But What characteristics of other places did you prefer to Spain?
Immigrants*
No, no you see these are westerners with money so they are expats.
If you are a westerner, the word immigrant is thrown around more because historically the more popular western countries were and are places where immigration happens. In terms of the US, there are infinitely more immigrants than expats because of the nature of how the visa system works. Generally also, the more western countries also rely on immigration more to keep their population stable as the birth rate tends to drop. Case in point. Look at Korea and Japan where they don't have white immigrants but white expats, birth rates are low and are called expats because generally they don't stay and make a permanent home there. I would also like to say that you don't seem like a digital nomad because you clearly have never met anyone or traveled much to not have noticed this. Expats - temporarily living, often on a work/extended travel type of visa. For instance, English teachers in Asia (expat) because often they re not a path towards citizenship or permanent resident visa. Immigrants - moving to another country for whatever reason and on a residency visa to citizenship or on a path towards residency visa.
Expats and immigrants are not always used interchangeably. For example, expats tend to be of a more temporary nature.
That is the definition of expat, living somewhere else temporarily, an immigrant stays for a long time/forever.
No, it's not. People keep posting that here but it's not accurate. Expat has always just referred to anyone residing in another country. There is nothing about "expat" that is meant to imply temporary
Oxford dictionary; Immigrant: noun. /ˈɪmɪɡrənt/ /ˈɪmɪɡrənt/ a person who has come to live 'permanently' in a different country from the one they were born in. Expatriate: also informal expat. /ˈekspæt/ /ˈekspæt/ ) a person living in a country that is not their own. Just because you don't like the word immigrant to be used for a certain type of people doesn't mean it's wrong. Edit: If I left my country to retire or live permanently in another country I would be an immigrant, if I don't plan to stay in another country permanently I am an expat. Stop trying to change the meaning of a word due to what you think is 'right'.
You are right with the technicalities of the word. But I’ve never heard a British/USA person referred to as an immigrant, when they have the intention to stay in said country.
Again, just because it's used for a certain type of people doesn't mean it's wrong and you should be brave enough to say what you really think and not dance around the fact that you don't like how white people aren't called immigrants in 'society'. It's not a technicality it is quite literally the definition of the word and has nothing to do with where you are from. I am a British person and I said in my comment that I would be an immigrant if I moved to another country permanently. You're not even able to be honest with your feelings but felt the need to comment echoing the same thing that I disproved? You are one of those people that secretly hate and work against others which is so much worse than someone who doesn't hide their racism. The word immigrant comes from the word immigrate which means to move from your home country permanently. immigrate. / (ˈɪmɪˌɡreɪt) / verb. (intr) to come to a place or country of which one is not a native in order to settle thereCompare emigrate. If you're upset about something do something about it instead of trying to make things up.
Wtf? Who said I’m hiding my feelings 😂 that’s the first comment I made. you’re a weird weird man.
You specifically said, you never hear British/US people being called an immigrant? What else is it that you could mean by that other than meaning you don't like how other people are called an immigrant and some aren't? If they are not an immigrant it doesn't matter where they are from.. you could of course explain what it is that you meant instead of trying to insult someone? Again, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not true.
Lol that shut him up really quickly
How about long-term tourist?
One is not an immigrant if they are temporarily living somewhere, that's by definition
A google for the definition disagrees.
Per google: immigrant - a person who comes to live **permanently** in a foreign country.
Try expat now
In the US, we use the word immigrant more often because we have a huge number of foreigners who come to live and become US citizens. No one really is an expat in the US because its not a great or easy place to live temporarily. There are some people who get work visas but more often than not, they have h1bs that they are trying to win the green card lottery. This is straight from google. immigrant - a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country. expatriate -
Expat does not have anything about temporary in the definition.
[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/expatriate.asp#:\~:text=Kirsten%20Rohrs%20Schmitt-,What%20Is%20an%20Expatriate%3F,become%20a%20citizen%20of%20another](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/expatriate.asp#:~:text=Kirsten%20Rohrs%20Schmitt-,What%20Is%20an%20Expatriate%3F,become%20a%20citizen%20of%20another). it generally means that and thats how people use it. Some expats are immigrants but all immigrants are expats, in the formal definition. However expat is used for like people who are working in the country or (now a days) retiring in the country with a pension/investment. Immigrants are usually the step before they become naturalized citizens or permanent residents
Perhaps I feel stronger about this because I do not and have never felt a bad thing about immigration is my parents are immigrants. It seems like only non immigrants are getting offended by the word.
I think I’m misunderstanding you, you don’t feel bad about using expat as a term in place of immigration because you’re descended from immigrants?
No, I find that people are getting offended by the use of expat and saying that "white" people call themselves expats and call people of color immigrants. The reality is that those words **should** describe two different scenarios. As I have descended from immigrants in terms of where I was born, I do not find this to be a real thing. If you look at the other comments in this post and other posts, there is a lot of lashing out at these "western/white" people going to foreign countries and calling themselves expats while at home, they complain about "immigrants"
Well you and I have similar backgrounds it seems and I still do not appreciate the distinction between migrant and expat. It’s the same in practice and colloquially is used to refer to people with more means or are white especially from the US. If you’re living abroad you migrated, if you are just passing through, you’re a tourist.
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* Spanish bureaucracy is an absolute nightmare, worse even than I've heard. Still doable, but it is a massive, massive pain. * Mexican food that's remotely authentic is pretty hard to come by, especially outside of like Madrid or Barcelona. There's tons of South Americans but there's less Mexicans than Americans. I do miss real Mexican food, especially corn tortillas. * Topless sunbathing is actually pretty common in Spain, especially on the slightly less touristy beaches. Moreso than all the other countries in Europe I've visited, which surprised me some. * Catalan/Valenciano is very common in the Catalonia region - all the street signs and most of the signage is in Catalan, which is pretty similar to Spanish but still different enough that it really threw me. Between Barcelona and Valencia you'll probably not find any situations where you can't communicate with someone in Spanish, but you'd be surprised how few conversations on the street are in castellano. * Things shut down for siesta still. Like by 2pm most shops are closed, and reopen between 4-8pm. I'd heard the siesta had died out, and maybe in certain aspects it has, but not the schedule. Also lots of stores don't open on Sundays or only for a few hours. * English is a pretty common lingua franca, especially in the larger cities, so it's not too hard to get around. It's far more common to hear UK accents though than Americans; I've learned the Americans go to Italy and Brits go to Spain :) * It's very tricky to find fast food outside of McDonalds & Burger King (& 1-2 others depending on the region, like Popeyes in the east). Other countries in Europe still have like a quick fast food option readily available usually, but in Spain it's unusual to want to eat food "fast" very often; even in those restaurants people sit down for a while more often than drive through for take-out.
Immigrants you mean, and to answer your question: The fact that ąmericans are not seen with good eyes, so we have to work with that
Immigrant is such a dirty word in the US that immigrants hate being called immigrants and must sanitize the word because immigrant means poor working class different looking “not sending their best” types. We’re all immigrants
Native Americans and descendents of imported slaves aren't immigrants.
Are they expats? You’re being facetious. Edit: Sir this is the digital nomad subreddit
I was responding to "We're all immigrants". Not everyone has ancestors who immigrated.
Sir this is r/digitalnomad
If you go back far enough, all humans are immigrants from Africa originally
Immigrants are those who move for a better life to make more money. Expats are those moving from rich countries to actually enjoy their life.
Everyone moves for a better life. The distinction is completely subjective and makes the icky association of the “I” word not apply to you.
dude you know theres a difference between immigrants and expats lol
I don’t think they do. They often come this ignorant
well i suppose they were too lazy to google it or just use a dictionary
The only difference is immigrants are poor expats and expats are rich immigrants.
Have you been to Medellin? Most of the expats here are pensioners and volunteer workers that go back and forth lol
Yes, not my cup of tea. My list of places I visit is more like: - Bodrum, Turkey - Sarandë, Albania - Zarqa, Jordan
The guy is fucking telling you and others the difference lol. The post is for immigrants not expats, so what is ur point?
Dude this is a digital nomad sub, not people immigrating. Take your anger elsewhere
The title is literally about ppl moving (thus immigrating) to some countries lol. And you are the one commenting like u have a point telling the guy there a difference while you have no clue what the difference is It must suck to be that clueless but very confident LPT for you; next time keep quiet and some will mistaken you for a bright person
I hope to be as smart as you one day
Meaning American’s politics or just that we are seen as gentrifiers jacking up all the prices?
More like people watch too much news and social media and think they know what America and Americans are like and will tell you that your country sucks immediately after asking where you're from. Meanwhile, every Spanish person I've met who have actually been to the States were very friendly and loved talking about where they had been to there. Also, because of Franco, there's a lot of love for communism in the Spanish youth as a sort of generic rebellious spirit and this sometimes just turns into people being outright tankies. And if you're a tankie nobody is worse than the big evil American imperialists.
Read a book, you might learn the difference between an expat and an immigrant.
And for a good reason ;)
Personally, I’ve found that a lot of Portuguese people seem to dislike foreigners (probably from driving up prices? I dk) But when I’m out and about I get ignored a lot, received rudely, or exasperated looks as soon as they hear my accent It kinda sucks tbh. A lot of their revenue relies on tourists. They have no idea whether I’m here for holiday or a long time. I don’t think they understand how fucked they would be economically without tourists (not including expats)
definitely feel this in servie level jobs
It’s part of the adventure