Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm not a conspiracy theory person, but I heard someone say once that they believed that PETA was a front by the agriculture industry to make vegans look like unhinged nutjobs and every time they pull something like this it feels more and more true.
That is the 1st time PETA has made sense... But I am an anti-conspiracy theorist... So I'm going to continue to believe PETA is populated by passionate nut-jobs.
Being an “anti-conspiracy theorist” is a form of conspiracy theorist. Conspiracies actually happen. Since the time of Julius Caesar and long before. Not as many as the nutjobs believe, but believing that they don’t exist is equally nuts.
I had to Google that one, but it fits a disturbing number of people I've cut out of my life
It also reminds me of The Onions amicus brief to the US Supreme Court
Ever since they got caught killing shelter dogs in the back of their van and dumping the carcasses, they proved they have no credibility...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna16930039
I suppose the same can be said about all types of “nut” milk.
At least peanuts are still safe - they’re not really nuts, but legumes. Real nuts grow on trees.
My gf is a vegan and she knows PETA is absolute hypocrisy at "their best". I remember they grilled a dog or something in public and told people it was pork, and then asked them if they would eat it if it was dog or something? Or it was actually pork but they said it was dog? Don't remember exactly. Either way, they grilled actual meat to prove a point. And they have done countless similar things. So yeah.
3:25 on here if you want to see where they are getting this from... not defending, arguing or anything... just referencing.. so step off my shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRZZDHGQOa4
Thanks, my first thought when I read off the wall takes like this is to wonder what insane logic lead them to that conclusion. The thought process is fascinating.
I lived in West Africa for a bit, all you could get was white rice and white bread, next time I go back I'm going to explain to them that they are all racists.
How much control should white supremacists have over our lives? If we have to start avoiding every single thing they've ever used as a symbol of their belief in their own supremacy, we're giving them quite a bit of control.
I’m sure they would just love to be allowed to have ownership of so many nice things. Rural life, classical art of all kinds, German culture, multiple valuable philosophers. I was once hounded as a nazi for reading Die Metaphysik der Sitten in its original German, quietly by myself in my Highschool. Nazis have appropriated so many nice things it’s not even funny. I’m sure they absolutely love that they are associated with such things. They do not deserve to be associated with any things other than what they truly represent; a hatred in their hearts towards all that is free and beautiful.
We are playing a short piece by Wagner in band this semester and the director talked about how his music is really good, and historically important, but he was not an awesome person.
It is used as a dog whistle because of the perceived belief that white people can digest lactose but other people can’t. It’s just another stupid thing white supremacists believe and Peta is being shitty by using this dog whistle for their bullshit.
It was one of those things white supremacists did to try to meme themselves online. They would make shit up about their habits or signals like the OK sign but then laugh at people who took them seriously or fell for it.....
The problem is that people who thought they were cool or were pro race war took it seriously and promoted it.
They would chug milk as part of this hazing. I think in the Shia lebouf stand against racism controversy, they used milk as part of a prank against him.
https://www.avclub.com/milk-chugging-alt-right-trolls-shut-down-shia-labeouf-1798257745
Peta is still shit though. Their messaging does nothing but rally the crazy few who already joined.
**Yes, white supremacists sometimes use milk as a white supremacy symbol. No, that’s not a reason to stop drinking it.**
It literally started as a 4Chan meme to make fun of white supremacists and their often comical examples of being “superior” to other races. The specific “superiority” is that adult lactose tolerance is supposedly more common in some European ethnicities.
So drink your milk. It annoys PETA and will now remind you how white supremacists are fucking clowns who think chugging a gallon of milk is an “own” of some kind.
I've often heard the claim that Black Africans are lactose intolerant from white supremacists, so I remind them that many Black Africans keep cows and milk them. If they got sick from the milk, why would they ever do that?
The idiots don't even suggest I'm wrong (I'm not); they just get angry at me for questioning their claims.
To be fair a glass of milk is used as a dog whistle by white supremacists. Ironically some brazilian politicians posted pictures with it thinking no one would notice.
White Supremacists really do have a thing for milk:
[https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1373&context=asj](https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1373&context=asj)
Nonwhite people are more likely to be lactose intolerant, and white supremacists have concluded that this somehow makes them superior. They ritualistically chug milk to "prove" their racial purity. They also think that adding vitamin D to milk is some sort of Jewish plot, since white people are less likely to be vitamin D deficient.
But that's not a good reason to stop consuming dairy products. White supremacists also breathe oxygen and drink water, and I'm not giving up those things.
There’s a big difference between “milk is inherently racist” and “racists have decided to adopt milk as one of their weird aesthetic trappings,” tho, and whatever you think about PETA they’re not making this up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/us/white-supremacists-science-dna.html
https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2021/03/04/white_supremacists_pride_in_drinking_milk_reveals_their_ignorance_685744.html
https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1373&context=asj
Apparently, this was an article from 2017. They associated milk with nazis because the nazi in inglorious bastards drank raw milk.
https://www.peta.org/blog/cows-milk-perfect-drink-supremacists/
My coworker, who's a HS teacher, uses this logic:
Europeans aren't lactose intolerant, and they WILLINGLY include cheese/dairy products into all their cuisines so brown/ethnically "non-white" people can't enjoy it.
I am Bengali and lactose intolerant. I kindly informed her that whether or not someone is lactose intolerant has zero to do with racism, and white supremacy. She called me ignorant and gave me a lecture about internalized racism.
She also recently got her nose broken by a 15yr old Pakistani kid because she told him he should dump his white girlfriend because, and I AM QUOTING HER "She probably thinks of you as her pet monkey in her head."
No, she isn't white.
There's a core of truth to it - white supremacists have been using milk as some kind of weird rallying cry.
Absolutely no logic in why that should make the rest of us not consume it, though.
It's peta being extreme again BUT some neo nazis have put phrases like "lactose tolerant" in their social media profiles as a code to avoid being banned.
There's also weird fucking obession with raw milk in the "hippie to nazi" pipeline.
Hey after “ Owning a dog show racist traits “ and “Frolicking in the rain is white racism “… I just want to take my dogs and leave this shitshow of a planet. First it’s sad anyone even thinks to say crap like this, worse is that 10s of thousands take it seriously.
Well, as a black man who could drink milk as a kid but can't really drink it anymore without having to run to a toilet. Maybe milk is racist on a timer? Milk tricks us into enjoying it, and then when we get older milk, just goes "hahaha fuck you go drink that almond shit you never liked! You can never enjoy chocolate milk again bitch!"
No, milk is not racist. But just like 👌🏻 and 🐸 a totally normal thing gets used as a nazi symbol. And they use regular symbols so that if leftists call them out they can simply say “look at silly SJW leftists now calling milk racist, how silly of them!”
Idiotic framing. The ability to digest milk long into adulthood is a genetic mutation common in some caucasion people. White supremacists celebrate this as a sign of superiority. It's like if black people were to celebrate skin not burning and peeling from prolonged direct sunlight.
PETA doesn't need to be flying that flag either, imo. I want no association with their bs of spending more lawyers than animals & slaughtering some 40k...
PETA, I'm gonna slap you all in the crotch.
With a hammer.
Of course, I can't actually do that, but I'd like to assume you can feel pain, unlike the animals you fucked.
Maybe raimbow milk? And rainbow cows? Cows i think were neutral for some time untill somebody notices that the milk isnt white with black spots , sooooo racist
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My days of not taking PETA seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
![gif](giphy|tnYri4n2Frnig)
I did not
Malcom Reynolds from *Firefly* talking to Janye about Vera, IIRC
It still makes me sad, referring to that show for its choice moments so long after it was inexcusably axed...
Shiney!
https://youtu.be/o_UTbf9gGVE?si=4bywdobVOeqycw5x Here's the scene.
![gif](giphy|W3H7yzvQowNSy124C8)
![gif](giphy|W3H7yzvQowNSy124C8)
![gif](giphy|UvwI1X7XkbXq0)
Hahaha
I call her Vera ![gif](giphy|vvJ8VQo15pZ2E)
I'm not a conspiracy theory person, but I heard someone say once that they believed that PETA was a front by the agriculture industry to make vegans look like unhinged nutjobs and every time they pull something like this it feels more and more true.
PETA is just what happens when you put ideologues inside an echo chamber.
PETA is just what happens when you put ideologues inside an echo chamber.
^PETA ^is ^just ^what ^happens ^when ^you ^put ^ideologies ^inside ^an ^echo ^chamber
PETA is just what happens when you put ideologies inside an echo chamber.
*PETA is just what happens when you put ideologues inside an echo chamber.*
Echo chamber
PEtAH
Chamber
Amber
Most animal activists and vegans I’ve met actually hate PETA. This makes way too much sense
That’s because peta puts down more dogs and cats more than any other organization iirc
That is the 1st time PETA has made sense... But I am an anti-conspiracy theorist... So I'm going to continue to believe PETA is populated by passionate nut-jobs.
Being an “anti-conspiracy theorist” is a form of conspiracy theorist. Conspiracies actually happen. Since the time of Julius Caesar and long before. Not as many as the nutjobs believe, but believing that they don’t exist is equally nuts.
I'm thinking they weren't burdened with an over-abundance of schooling.
https://petakillsanimals.com/
Just wow
Euthanizing outdoor cats because they will probably be run over by a car in the future anyways. Can't argue with that logic... Lol
Aw, hell, if I wanted schoolin' I'd have gone to school.
You are about two decades late
Never too late to misbehave
I aim to misbehave
If I ever die prematurely I want you to stage it to look like a suicide caused by the unjust cancellation of Firefly
thats why to not be racist, I drink milk from black cow
Not to be sexist, I prefer male cows.
There’s a lot of hypocrisy there like insulin usage is OK for the leaders and giant freezers for all the animals they euthanize.
![gif](giphy|I5WR5cwXd4utO)
Just ask Dr Cornwallis, he’s very wise
KILL MEEEEE!
Nothing PETA says should be taken at face value, tbh
They have become a caricature of themselves. Does make for some good laughs from time to time.
They've been like that for decades.
They've become a parody of the caricature of themselves thanks to social media
Poe's Law works here too
I had to Google that one, but it fits a disturbing number of people I've cut out of my life It also reminds me of The Onions amicus brief to the US Supreme Court
Ever since they got caught killing shelter dogs in the back of their van and dumping the carcasses, they proved they have no credibility... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna16930039
Not to mention them telling people not to take insulin pretty much but then the VP taking it due to being diabetic
They shouldn't be taken at any value.
What if it’s chocolate milk?
Appropriation
I mean if we're going there then Almonds are native to Southwest Asia so almond milk produced anywhere else would be appropriation
I wonder what indians say
My guess is "Namaste away from my cashews."
Humans come from africa so humans produced anywhere else are approptiation
Fuck..... I'm a bootleg
I suppose the same can be said about all types of “nut” milk. At least peanuts are still safe - they’re not really nuts, but legumes. Real nuts grow on trees.
"Nut" milk huh? Kind of salty but ok...
"He just made me close my eyes and suck it out of a hose."
Eric, dude, uhhhh...
Would oat milk be alpropriation?
I knew it!
Damn near spit out my cider
blackface
That's just blackfacing.
That's double racist probably
Racist don’t drink chocolate milk, or eat brown eggs. But they do suck a lot of dick
Blackmilking, the dairy version of Blackface
As a vegetarian I can say I hate peta for making us look bad
Nah don’t worry, I’m not vegetarian but I’m still ashamed of sharing the same species with them.
As a cow, I hate to be defended by them
As a kangaroo I'm glad they don't know how to defend me or if they should... (Btw kangaroo is quite delicious)
Bros a cannibal
You aren’t?
I thought cannabilsm is perfectly normal
Exactly
Kangaroos need no defense fucked up giant boxing mice that like to drown dogs
And do the occasional boxing match (yes, that exists google it, it’s very interesting to watch)
[This one is my favorite](https://youtu.be/N7M6lhzYOow?feature=shared)
Kangaroo chili was some of the best chili I ever made.
Heard it’s got a kick to it…
As a dog on a porch i hate being kindnapped (and in some cases murdered) by them
As a white person who drinks milk, I feel perfectly represented
PETA is the worst at advertising. Anyone else remember their softcore rough sex porn ad?
#their WHAT?
they don't make you look bad at all tbh. they make themselves look bad and that's it. I don't have a problem with vegans or vegetarians
I don't associate PETA with vegetarians
I just associate them with pure stupidity
That's an insult to pure stupidty.
Soon as they came after animal crossing they got put on my shit list
My gf is a vegan and she knows PETA is absolute hypocrisy at "their best". I remember they grilled a dog or something in public and told people it was pork, and then asked them if they would eat it if it was dog or something? Or it was actually pork but they said it was dog? Don't remember exactly. Either way, they grilled actual meat to prove a point. And they have done countless similar things. So yeah.
But I’m lactose intolerant, does that mean I’m a self hating white person?
You, my husband, & my best friend. Please form a line to the right.
![gif](giphy|5YuhLwDgrgtRVwI7OY|downsized)
Just be more tolerant!
Yeah! Some people just have partial feet
I laughed so hard. Thanks.
You’re not alone!
"Has long been a symbol"? I thought this was an alt-right thing of recent coinage.
since 2016 or something.
Remember: Colonel Hans Landa drank milk, and he was in the Nazi SS!
Even that reference only dates back to 2009
3:25 on here if you want to see where they are getting this from... not defending, arguing or anything... just referencing.. so step off my shit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRZZDHGQOa4
Well that’s just….something. Lol
The whole time I was watching that, I was 100% convinced an orgy was seconds away from breaking out.
I have met chuds who have an obsession with not being able to buy and drink raw milk and it never makes sense to me. It's just fucking bacteria slop
All dairy is, which is why I don't say anything. I like cheese too much.
Sometimes you can score some puss and blood in there!
mmmm mastitis
Thanks, my first thought when I read off the wall takes like this is to wonder what insane logic lead them to that conclusion. The thought process is fascinating.
If you eat white rice, potatoes, white bread, apples or pears, then you are *most likely* a racist.
I lived in West Africa for a bit, all you could get was white rice and white bread, next time I go back I'm going to explain to them that they are all racists.
Well the Japanese eat white rice and look at them…
I mean...yes? They can be.
I had a white dog once (Edit) not as food
In the 2020s there is definitely more than a few people out there where this isn't a joke and it is just hard serious facts to them.
How much control should white supremacists have over our lives? If we have to start avoiding every single thing they've ever used as a symbol of their belief in their own supremacy, we're giving them quite a bit of control.
White supremacists go to work by car, time to buy a horse.... Oh wait
I’m sure they would just love to be allowed to have ownership of so many nice things. Rural life, classical art of all kinds, German culture, multiple valuable philosophers. I was once hounded as a nazi for reading Die Metaphysik der Sitten in its original German, quietly by myself in my Highschool. Nazis have appropriated so many nice things it’s not even funny. I’m sure they absolutely love that they are associated with such things. They do not deserve to be associated with any things other than what they truly represent; a hatred in their hearts towards all that is free and beautiful.
[insert Reddit award above]
We are playing a short piece by Wagner in band this semester and the director talked about how his music is really good, and historically important, but he was not an awesome person.
Who rightly gives a fuck. He's dead, let's call it even.
Don't forget Hitler had a dog!
I think PETA is creating less vegans then it is creating vegans.
I’m half convinced PETA is a straw man/false flag done by some animal product megacorp, nobody can generate this much public ill will unintentionally.
It is used as a dog whistle because of the perceived belief that white people can digest lactose but other people can’t. It’s just another stupid thing white supremacists believe and Peta is being shitty by using this dog whistle for their bullshit.
Huh, that's actually kinda interesting. And crazy that white supremacists believe that.
How do you know PETA is saying something stupid? Their lips are moving.
It's Peta....the same group that thinks putting animals down is better than them being pets....
It was one of those things white supremacists did to try to meme themselves online. They would make shit up about their habits or signals like the OK sign but then laugh at people who took them seriously or fell for it..... The problem is that people who thought they were cool or were pro race war took it seriously and promoted it. They would chug milk as part of this hazing. I think in the Shia lebouf stand against racism controversy, they used milk as part of a prank against him. https://www.avclub.com/milk-chugging-alt-right-trolls-shut-down-shia-labeouf-1798257745 Peta is still shit though. Their messaging does nothing but rally the crazy few who already joined.
**Yes, white supremacists sometimes use milk as a white supremacy symbol. No, that’s not a reason to stop drinking it.** It literally started as a 4Chan meme to make fun of white supremacists and their often comical examples of being “superior” to other races. The specific “superiority” is that adult lactose tolerance is supposedly more common in some European ethnicities. So drink your milk. It annoys PETA and will now remind you how white supremacists are fucking clowns who think chugging a gallon of milk is an “own” of some kind.
based
I've often heard the claim that Black Africans are lactose intolerant from white supremacists, so I remind them that many Black Africans keep cows and milk them. If they got sick from the milk, why would they ever do that? The idiots don't even suggest I'm wrong (I'm not); they just get angry at me for questioning their claims.
Strawberry milk it is, damn it, I hate that stuff.
What do you have against pink people?
They're communists. /s
Peta is full of sheeta
And now Fox News is gonna say that this is what critical race theory really is, calling milk racist.
Oh god, I think you're right.
To be fair a glass of milk is used as a dog whistle by white supremacists. Ironically some brazilian politicians posted pictures with it thinking no one would notice.
Not limited to Brazilian politicians.
White Supremacists really do have a thing for milk: [https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1373&context=asj](https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1373&context=asj) Nonwhite people are more likely to be lactose intolerant, and white supremacists have concluded that this somehow makes them superior. They ritualistically chug milk to "prove" their racial purity. They also think that adding vitamin D to milk is some sort of Jewish plot, since white people are less likely to be vitamin D deficient. But that's not a good reason to stop consuming dairy products. White supremacists also breathe oxygen and drink water, and I'm not giving up those things.
There’s a big difference between “milk is inherently racist” and “racists have decided to adopt milk as one of their weird aesthetic trappings,” tho, and whatever you think about PETA they’re not making this up. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/us/white-supremacists-science-dna.html https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2021/03/04/white_supremacists_pride_in_drinking_milk_reveals_their_ignorance_685744.html https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1373&context=asj
I am racist but I don’t like milk, should I ?
of course! hence hitler’s book “my calf”
I was like “what the f- oh…it’s PETA”
Apparently, this was an article from 2017. They associated milk with nazis because the nazi in inglorious bastards drank raw milk. https://www.peta.org/blog/cows-milk-perfect-drink-supremacists/
My coworker, who's a HS teacher, uses this logic: Europeans aren't lactose intolerant, and they WILLINGLY include cheese/dairy products into all their cuisines so brown/ethnically "non-white" people can't enjoy it. I am Bengali and lactose intolerant. I kindly informed her that whether or not someone is lactose intolerant has zero to do with racism, and white supremacy. She called me ignorant and gave me a lecture about internalized racism. She also recently got her nose broken by a 15yr old Pakistani kid because she told him he should dump his white girlfriend because, and I AM QUOTING HER "She probably thinks of you as her pet monkey in her head." No, she isn't white.
So does drinking chocolate milk make me safe? Does drinking pink milk make me a pink supremacist? Can we just petition to ban fucking peta?
Every day is a facepalm at PETA.
Whats next, sperm = racist?
There's a core of truth to it - white supremacists have been using milk as some kind of weird rallying cry. Absolutely no logic in why that should make the rest of us not consume it, though.
Everything peta says is a bunch of bologna.
It's peta being extreme again BUT some neo nazis have put phrases like "lactose tolerant" in their social media profiles as a code to avoid being banned. There's also weird fucking obession with raw milk in the "hippie to nazi" pipeline.
Hey after “ Owning a dog show racist traits “ and “Frolicking in the rain is white racism “… I just want to take my dogs and leave this shitshow of a planet. First it’s sad anyone even thinks to say crap like this, worse is that 10s of thousands take it seriously.
Peta = idiots
That is the dumbest thing I've read today. Where did you get this from?
Use to call my really white friends skim milk
For too long only white Cows got milked. Now its Time for the Black and hispanic ones, to get choclate milk
Please stop giving them attention. They know exactly what they're doing when they post crap like this.
Free enslaved chocolate milk.
White people (and now even white objects) are racist. /s
Save the animals, absolutely. Sure. But really, fuck PETA
PETA never ceases to amaze me with the shit they come up with
Couldn't you just drink... chocolate milk?
That statement means my family are black white supremists.
I’ll just drink chocolate milk. Racism solved
![gif](giphy|aacOScXMXvjpK)
That’s why i drink it /s
So what does this make chocolate milk?
Vegan milk is also white - > vegans are racists Cows have differend colors - > non vegans are not racists
Dang. So what does that make soy milk? 😂
Well, as a black man who could drink milk as a kid but can't really drink it anymore without having to run to a toilet. Maybe milk is racist on a timer? Milk tricks us into enjoying it, and then when we get older milk, just goes "hahaha fuck you go drink that almond shit you never liked! You can never enjoy chocolate milk again bitch!"
That's why I use only choccy milk for everything 😋
PETA are fucking stupid.
They are just trying the 2020s idea of using racism and sensationalism to gain traction on a on a subject that has nothing to do with either.
The only thing milk has in common with white supremacy is the fact that it is gross and I don't understand why people are still into it.
You know who drank milk? Hitler.
No, milk is not racist. But just like 👌🏻 and 🐸 a totally normal thing gets used as a nazi symbol. And they use regular symbols so that if leftists call them out they can simply say “look at silly SJW leftists now calling milk racist, how silly of them!”
Um, sorry, chocolate milk was invented, right?
Watch them try to cancel clouds next.
Try tell to us Italians to stop using mozzarella, I dare you PETA
Yeah, let's drink oat milk instead! That's... mildly less white.
*Starts drinking a bottle of goats milk* Don't think PETA saw that coming. ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|sunglasses)
Idiotic framing. The ability to digest milk long into adulthood is a genetic mutation common in some caucasion people. White supremacists celebrate this as a sign of superiority. It's like if black people were to celebrate skin not burning and peeling from prolonged direct sunlight.
What happened to milk being misogynistic because it only came from female cows?
![gif](giphy|2q9bpGWGS9DkQ)
Drugs are bad m’kay?!
![gif](giphy|oCtTDNhZoQe3e)
I didn't realise I was a white supremist all along
Apparently, I've been a racist for years.
PETA doesn't need to be flying that flag either, imo. I want no association with their bs of spending more lawyers than animals & slaughtering some 40k...
As far as I know both white and black people drink milk
One more reason to drink milk.
PETA, I'm gonna slap you all in the crotch. With a hammer. Of course, I can't actually do that, but I'd like to assume you can feel pain, unlike the animals you fucked.
Maybe raimbow milk? And rainbow cows? Cows i think were neutral for some time untill somebody notices that the milk isnt white with black spots , sooooo racist
Mother fuckers will come up with any bullshit they can won't they? Laughable.