Always best to take the gamble out of the situation. If you have pharmaceutically certified drugs available you kill the cowboy culture that literally kills people.
Then you can address the problem of why people take drugs on its own.
Nah, I think it's important to protect people's anonymity with this kind of stuff. If you have to put your name and details on a register to take drugs, people will go right back to buying it off some dodgy guy in the street.
They already have to give a unique code formed from their initials and date of birth in order to use needle exchange services. From experience of working with the them, most users would have no problem using the same code if it got them access to free drugs.
I think a lot of people here have a serious crime and punishment (with heavy emphasis on the punishment) outlook, and anything that suggests not hurting those who they think should be punished will upset them.
It's no different to the reality that already exists. Community pharmacies currently hold the details of tens of thousands of addicts being treated for opiate/benzodiazepine/alcohol addiction, and drug service users already need to provide a unique identifiable code formed from their initials and DoB in order to access needle exchange services. Do you think we should stop offering those services to prevent a data breach?
Cannabis is a drug available on prescription but illegal to buy outside of that in Scotland, relevant to the comment you just replied to. It’s not the only one not causing problems either. Who ever caused problems sitting in their mates couch doing MDMA?
Thought it would be obvious I was talking about drugs people generally get addicted to and then commit crime to fund their habit smack, crack, meth etc
Can't have have one without the hour lost years of my life due to alcohol yet that's the drug everyone is meant to consume
Could personally go out on crack and brown binges at the height of the madness but I'd always go back to booze
Been sober just over a year and 3 months now
Getting a cannabis prescription in my early days of sobriety was pretty key for me in recovery I think
Well I could tell you a few stories. Weed is sound because every cunt is just gouched after a joint. As a functioning alcoholic I’d rather be at a party with every cunt just MWI, but as soon as Gear or Mandy come out I cannae be fucked with that because you know a scrap will end up happening.
The problem of substance abuse needs to be addressed as it is. And correctly quantified and monitored. Making it available like this allows that to happen.
And the gangsterism and street crime element can be addressed for what it is
It’s not going far enough tbh what exactly do you suggest? Only alternative on par with this would be an off licence or dispensary type situation and they once again provide a problem that products straight from a pharmacist would likely eliminate.
This idiotic logic that every social problem is someone's else's fault, we should just allow it because it's mean to punish people, eventually we will create a utopia anyway where no one will do drugs or commit crime.
Not at all. It is a social ill but prohibition exacerbates the problem by putting it behind the lens of the criminal underworld.
The social ill of substance misuse needs to be addressed as purely that regarding its effect on the individual.
Usage monitored and shared with health professionals openly.
Behind that curtain of criminality it just adds this cowboy element of bullshit. Those guys can just be circumvented at source.
Pharmaceutical level drugs for all for the right price with monitoring and treatment is the way to brush them aside and begin seriously dealing with substance abuse itself.
Dude opium was legal, there were opium dens across the UK. Go read about it. Britain unleashed opium on China as a weapon of war, that's the type of effect it has being freely available in society.
Prohibition has lots of problems and is hard. But people like you are so worried about helping someone who is already lost that you don't realise you'd be damning 10 more.
See during that time were they monitoring consumption and offering rehab by sharing such info with health professionals?
Were these opium dens staffed by health professionals?
That's the difference between an opium den and a pharmacy.
Selling them in pharmacies means private owners make massive profit while paying pharmacy workers like shit. No improvement in public funding whatsoever.
Depends how such a thing would be implemented.
If it’s literally a case of just selling in pharmacies, well that’s happened with heroin before in the early twentieth century and it led to widespread addiction.
It’s not a simple case of just legalising all drugs and thinking that will help everything, that’s not a sensible way of looking at it. And I’m a former heroin addict.
Safe injecting rooms and all that are an excellent idea though, and seem to work well; they should roll that out even more.
Everything should be legalised, taxed and regulated.
Like you get a license or ID card or whatever, everyone has access to x amount. Harder drugs are given out in lesser quantities. You scan your ID and you get your pre ordained amount.
You're not going to stop people taking it, so you may as well make it as safe as possible.
What happens when people gouge their own eyes out with a spoon? You can only legislate so much, and you can't help those who don't want it. But many addicts are desperate to fix their lives, they just don't have the tools. Much better to have Sally the Pharmacist giving them certified 100% clean heroin in a safe space off the street and give them access to addicition services, than Dodgy Bob the fentanyl and fake valium king. And we get billions in tax revenue to boot.
Bit of an obnoxious comparison. What I'm saying is that this approach doesn't eliminate the black market/drug underworld. It just forces it to operate slightly differently now that the state is supplying them with curious, newly addicted opiate dependents.
I really, really doubt anyone who isn't on one of these drugs will wander into a safe injection site, see the typical clientele and the medical environment, and decide to have a go themselves.
Harder drugs are given out in lesser quantities? What does that even mean? 😂
I don’t think that would work. I do think addicts of very hard drugs should be given it as part of treatment and moderated, but selling it freely and trying to control them from that vantage is naive.
I’m not arguing it shouldn’t be made as safe as possible but tbh people who generally have no idea about it think legalising would solve all the problems instantly, but it’s not as simple as that.
Like I said, heroin used to be legal and available to buy at pharmacies and it ended in widespread addiction and poverty and death. Hence why it ended up banned in the western world.
Even if you decriminalise all drugs which I’m in favour for, just decriminalising doesn’t solve everything (decriminalising, not legalising, there’s a difference).
It’s such a multifaceted and complex issue. Legalisation and the way you’re looking at it might solve a few issues, but it would instigate a gamut of other problems.
Right now I'm feeling tempted to find out if I can handle a full gram of pharmaceutically pure coke in one sesh.
Will never find out with the trade as it is ...dealers are bawbags
You could always get a gram of prop and see how long that lasts you. That should give you a good idea. Where you’d get it would be another story, you’d want to be careful as from what I understand cross contamination with fentanyl is still a risk, even with ching. The fact that it’s a possibility is frightening stuff.
Dealers aren’t cutting a gram at a time, that’d take forever. If the last leg dealer is doing any cutting themselves (often not the case) they’re cutting a batch at a time, probably turning two ounces into three ounces, and they’re not cutting it with fentanyl because dead customers aren’t repeat customers.
Fentanyl cross contamination happens somewhere in the chain where a dealer is also handling heroin (heroin being the drug most typically cut with fentanyl to boost the effects and make it feel stronger than the shitty heroin they’re selling actually is).
This is something that legalisation and regulation would go a long way to solving.
Semi-related, but everyone in Scotland can carry Naloxone, a drug to temporarily reverse an opioid overdose. If you don't know anyone that uses opioids or aren't a social worker etc. it's unlikely you'll ever encounter someone on an overdose, but if you ever do this does vastly increase their chances of survival. Comes in two forms, one being a nasal spray (the other is an injection, don't know how I'd personally feel about giving that to a stranger though).
More information [here](https://www.sfad.org.uk/learning-hub/overdose-awareness-and-naloxone). There's a link to a quick online course you should do to learn about how to recognise an overdose and how to use the Naloxone. You can then get a free kit from SFAD. Comes with a little pouch that you can clip onto things.
As someone who works in addictions as part of my job I think it's so important to get as many people as possible carrying as it's a genuine life saver.
These's days there's more of a chance of seeing someone overdosing on street Valium or DTs from alcohol withdrawal but the good thing about Naloxone is it can be administered to anyone and it won't cause any side effects if it's not opioids so it's always better to use it than not.
A family member of mine works in addiction counselling in Canada and gave me some to take with me to festivals. Luckily I’ve never needed it. None of my friends had even heard of it. Which, considering most drugs are getting cut with awful shit nowadays, is terrifying.
We need better drug awareness campaigns. Not just for teenagers. For the 30,40 year olds that still go out and take the occasional line or two. More and more getting cut with nasty shit.
I agree that drugs should be decriminalised and taxed by the government. Absolutely nothing has been accomplished trying to defeat the war on drugs. Sending people to prison or not helping them at all with addictions is not what we should be doing. Be the drug cartel, test the drugs so they are good and not poison, have safe havens for addicts to take drugs and tax it. The money made goes towards paying for rehabilitation and for nurses and doctors. Absolutely out there idea but what we've been doing clearly hasn't worked.
Heroin dealers try to generate new customers and sell impure drugs. The cost to society is huge and people go through hell.
It's basically agreed that we should have safe consumption rooms to make it safer for users and keep needles off the street, but why still let dealers profit.
It is still criminal, just the chap is thinking in same modes, a different way. The difference in Portugal is that it’s treated as a health issue - so my sentiment is that a different approach is 100% welcome
There are far too many people out there who've read two sentences about Portugal and think it's a model to emulate.
Nothing about drug addiction is going to be easy and my big problem with the decriminalisation advocates is that they seem to think they have a silver bullet. They don't.
Its goal was to obtain a significant decrease in HIV, that’s been achieved. It has also reduced drug deaths to significantly below the European average. Overall drug use has actually decreased. Also increased number of people seeking treatment, lower burden on criminal justice system.
Moving the problem from criminal to health services has put a strain on their health service, funding especially after 20 years, and in current world is challenging, and like the U.K. has regional variability and funding varies and availability of the programmes is limited in inner city areas (dense populations, lower socioeconomic capability)
Neither side is a rose garden, people are people, but in terms of a public policy decision, it’s nudged more correctly than Scotland’s obviously failed outcome - time we looked at other ways
It’s just a matter of implementation, well thought out (and funded) implementation
The law (Drug Law 30/2000) maintained the status of illegality for using or possessing any drug for personal use without authorization. However, for persons addicted to said drug, their case was now deemed an administrative offence. The authority to impose penalties or sanctions in these cases was transferred from the police and justice system to so-called dissuasion commissions if the amount possessed was no more than a ten-day supply of that substance.
Not quite, Portugal accepted the reality of illegal drugs and they remain illegal - but in sentiment and approach, yes - what we’re doing is not working, let’s observe, learn and implement other strategies that could possibly work
I’m thinking the Portuguese approach was to take the ringfenced “war on drugs” - cash and inject it instead into safety, outreach, education and such - exactly the same funding used on prohibition was instead used on harm reduction and prevention.
Don’t know about Portland, if they did the same.
And not so much in Vancouver either. Folk need to step back from the blinkered notion that it’s the “progressive” thing to do.
Decriminalising it all leads to the tent cities and drug taking/injecting openly on the streets……. because it’s now legal and those that want to can do it where they like. The police are left powerless. Drug users all start congregating together in even greater numbers. The tent city starts to take over several blocks. If you’ve a business or you live the area you’re stuck with it and completely fücked! No one is buying your property so you can move away from it.
Criminalising people because they have an addiction isn’t the answer. The “war on drugs” does seem utterly futile. But decriminalising just ends in an utter shït show!
For those that think it’s the answer, ask yourself, you’d be quite happy if it was happening on your street or next to your kids school?
Sorry I don’t know about Vancouver either, I’m talking about something that has famously, observably, well studied and impressively worked in Portugal. The approach was to stop the ridiculous money spent on the inane prohibition and instead spend **the same** on harm reduction, eduction, targeted intervention, and so on. This is the critical part. I don’t know about Vancouver, so I can’t comment.
It’s interesting if they’ve implemented precisely the same protocol and came up with a different result. Why would that be so.
Hes from a city with one of the worst deaths in Western Europe for drug deaths btw
How hes not seen that decriminalisation is the answer is astonishing but i think he might be a bit doss bastard with that name. Daft right wing bastards that love celebrating battles fought hundreds of years ago they dress up as soldiers and play with majorettes like wee girls and go on about catholics all the time its truly tragic
Seen people use in the streets for decades here lol its a common sign in all of the uk cities al the play parks built near high rises used to be riddled with needles
"BroomhouseBear" why have i got a feeling you will be celebrating in a couple of weeks time at the 12th
If youve never seen anyone shoot up in Glasgow in public you must be fucking blind
The 12th? I couldn’t give a flying fück about the Orange Order. What a bizarre comment in reply to a what I would say is a valid point about the potential unintended consequences of decriminalising possession of illegal drugs for personal use.
Or, like, the whole of Portugal…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal#:~:text=Portugal%20signed%20all%20the%20UN,is%20not%20a%20punishable%20crime).
Especially have a look at “Table and chart comparing countries”
Problem though: not all devolved policy. The money that was previously spent on the inane “war on drugs” was reinfected and put into safe places, needle exchange, education, outreach.
Portugal went that route, very controversially, because of HIV increase due to intravenous drug use.
There is another way though, a proven, world renowned other way.
I’ve also read competing accounts of alcohol pricing being a factor. Some strongly in the direction of it was alcohol pricing that drove the spike, others strongly against. The answer is not easy to ascertain, many competing interests (alcohol lobby, politicians, moralistic sentiments all factors, so it’s hard to get down to unambiguous answers.
Pharmacies are busy enough as they are. Take the methadone users out of pharmacies and create new drug stores/centres for recreational drugs and meth/heroine users. Use all the tax to build them along with rehabilitation services. Proper programs funded for people to come off the bad stuff and facilitate the safer use of recreationals by testing and controlling strength/quality. Take back control from the drug barons and free up the jail space that’s desperately needed for the peedos and truly bad eggs!
This doesn't address why there are so many people here taking and dying of drugs in Scotland vs the rUK or other places in Europe.
Also, I assume it would need to be funded from government so presumably there would be a limit that one person could only buy so much. Would that not address anyone needing a fix inbetween and going to a dealer?
Every shop sells alcohol. Why not other things?
The only substantive difference between alcohol and heroin is political. If you believe alcohol is safee, that's cultural indoctrination talking.
Welllll there’s a bit more of a difference than political 😅. Someone having a drink at dinner is a lot different than someone injecting themselves with heroin at dinner.
Alcohol is addictive and kills loads of people, its just socially acceptable.
Heroin is a lot more addictive but if your an addict to either one you can still die and totally destroy your life so they're not that different compared with really low risk drugs.
I remember watching a profound documentary about a recovered heroin addict who did outreach work in schools, warning of the dangers, and the decline and such, harrowing stuff. Guy nipped out for a fag and the interviewer asked “you smoke, I’d have thought your experience would have put you off” - guy’s response though, heroin was easy compared to fags - chilling statement
They are absolutely nowhere near the same. I drank every weekend as a young man. I’m in my 30s and tee total. Never felt any sort of struggle to stop.
I could use heroin once and it would literally take my soul. You either don’t understand how dangerous heroin is or you’re just stupid.
I’m sorry, I generally try to understand the views of others and respect them. Comparing alcohol with heroin saying they’re the same because you can ultimately become addictive to both. Is the single stupidest thing I’ve ever seen on Reddit, and believe me there is plenty of competition for that title.
You had a few drinks at the weekend and never had a problem with it, so i must be wrong....
I have tried heroin and various opiates and i honestly never really enjoyed them, its not my thing and the same for plenty of people who do various opiates recreationally.
On the other hand i have been drinking most days for nearly 15 years and 2 of my friends have nearly died from it.
Im not saying heroin is equal but you can equally fuck your life up from both of them.
Heroin is more acutely toxic (easier to overdose) and probably more addictive in the short term, but alcohol is much worse for your body long term. If you could take pure heroin every day it wouldn’t impact your health much if you injected it properly, whereas alcohol is a group 1 carcinogen (in the same category as radiation and asbestos), causes heart disease, neurological disease, vascular disease, liver disease, it damages every organ in your body.
Heavy alcohol use is also much more dangerous to stop than to stop taking heroin. You will feel like shit going cold turkey, but its not a medical emergency. Drinkers that quit suddenly can drop dead from grand mal seizures, or heart attacks. Sudden alcohol withdrawl also causes cumulative brain damage that can cause memory loss, problems walking and other neurological problems.
"I could use heroino once and it would literally take my soul"
Jesus
That's not how addiction works youd probably just feel a bit stoned and nauseous trying kit for your first time
Yeah, it's weird how it's so moreish but such a crappy buzz. I did no more than a handful of times in my late 20s but narrowly avoided becoming habitual after my flatmate, and probably best bud to this day, gave me the most heartfelt berrating for planning on heading for another fix.
Mostly stuck to weed, acid, shrooms, speed, eckies and random powders that came in and out of fashion.
Drug and alcohol free since 2013. Except one time I broke a rib and drank cannabis tea to get to sleep.
Kicked cigs/nicotine back in 2016 that IS the toughest.
A combination of availability and just being very chemically addictive.
>I could use heroin once and it would literally take my soul.
>
>Is the single stupidest thing I’ve ever seen on Reddit, and believe me there is plenty of competition for that title.
"I could use heroin once and it would literally take my soul"
By that rationale, every person that's ever received morphine in a hospital has walked out a junky?
Your comment clearly hasn't went down well with people that have experienced life on that lane
Did no one remember the horizon documentary that was aired years ago with Dr David Nutt that actually ranked drugs on how harmful they were by science?
[https://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/nov/02/david-nutt-dangerous-drug-list](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/nov/02/david-nutt-dangerous-drug-list)
There was a full documentary
[https://hospitalpharmacyeurope.com/news/editors-pick/diamorphine-the-return-of-an-old-friend/](https://hospitalpharmacyeurope.com/news/editors-pick/diamorphine-the-return-of-an-old-friend/)
Thats heroin that article is talking about
Ive seen people shoot in public since ive been a kid brought up in Glasgow its a common sight here and always has been, why not have a space for them?
It’l get so much worse if they’re given legal right to do so.
Because there are people in this country in need and much more deserving of public funds.
Invest in an infrastructure that can help drug users get clean and back into society, absolutely.
Waste cash we don’t have for people who don’t want help or to change? Fucking pull the other one.
It isn’t rational to champion the cause of decriminalising drugs which is essentially just making it someone else’s problem. More than likely the people who have to deal with people lying out their tits on heroin and street Valium everywhere.
I genuinely don’t think people with ideas or notions like this live in the real world.
Decriminalise weed, should’ve been done years ago. I want the polis going through the door of scumbags peddling street Valium rather than someone that’s got 2 plants in the loft.
There has to be a hard hitting zero tolerance approach to those supplying hard drugs. Possession and use of them also has to have a deterrent or our European record drug death rate will spiral beyond the point of us ever shaking off that title.
That's disingenuous. That study ranks it at worst for society. Surprise surprise heroin ranks worst for the individual. If the same amount of people took heroin as people drink alcohol I don't doubt it would smash that #1 spot on the society rankings.
‘Clean pure heroin’ still leaves people looking like apocalyptic zombies, it still destroys lives and entire communities. Alcohol can be enjoyed responsibly regularly. If you tell me heroin can I’ll be concerned for your state of mind.
Just ignore the millions of people who enjoy alcohol responsibly worldwide so you’ve got room for your pretendy philosopher nonsense.
Heroin is pure evil and those advocating for it to be legalised should be in straight jackets
I think there’s more harm in it being illegal. Do I want it legal? When did I say that? But it being illegal does not stop people taking it, why are people injecting fentanyl over an opium tincture? Ask the gov.
I want it illegal so there is some form of a deterrent to those using it. I don’t work and live a clean life so that I have to spend time stepping over scores of people lying all over the place out their tits because liberal idiots thought it was a good idea.
If you want to just bash alcohol go for it. This is a thread about legalising all drugs which is fucking unfiltered stupidity
Legalising all drugs? It’s about selling “controlled drugs” at pharmacies what they already fucking do. Legalising means you could buy heroin at a shop 🤦♂️
Methadone was intended to be a stepping stone to getting off heroin. It needs looked at.
Fuck spending money we don’t have on shit like this. Genuinely sickens me there are people waiting years for surgery and people want to invest in heavy drugs being ‘safe’ for people who often contribute sweet fuck all to society.
Utter bollocks.
Good for you. I’ve been out my tits numerous times before going tee total. Never once had the urge to shoot up because I have a brain in my head. So do most.
You’re almost bragging about taking drugs. Shot up, snorted, fired eckies up your dungchute I don’t care. You say that as though everybody will be the same. You want to take drugs it’s your decision. Stop thinking everybody else will.
Bragging now? Most of my best friends are dead to drugs (because it wasn’t the drugs they bought) Wouldn’t call it bragging. I’m more concerned for the people that die taking something that isn’t the substance they want…..
What is your actual point here? Legalise heroin? Don’t legalise heroin? Or are we just getting drip fed your life story.
Heavy drugs have always been dangerous and have a high risk of serious injury or death. Im not signing up to have our country become a gathering ground for heavy drug users to run into the ground, all to ensure that the drugs they take are safe for them to take as an appetiser to destroying the communities they inhabit.
I have a prescription for medical weed, personally think it should be much easier IE the Canada version. That raises taxes and takes revenue from gangs
They will find something else to make money from though.
Not sure I'd want all drugs to be legal I think certain drugs need to be legal though id draw the line at heroin. Recreational drugs are fine in moderation
Scotland exports an enormous quantity of whisky to the world. The damage done is incalculable. We are so proud. Comparatively harmless drugs such as cannabis,mdma and psilocybin are punished severely. Even when the worst drugs are included the damage done isn't even on the same page.
Everybody in Scotland sees the societal damage alcohol wreaks in our communities. We are so proud.
There's already a shitload of controlled substances in these places that people could easily use to get high, and yet they're not the number one targeted shop for theft and violent robbery.
Use a wee bit of common sense.
I see Scotlands all wise overlords looked at Americas drug problem and thought that looks like a good solution we can do it too. Can’t wait for the zombies to be crowding out the normal folk in Glasgow. The town Center will be a no go zone.
Not sure if they've all died but the city centre isn't been that bad lately.
I work slap bang in the middle of the worst of it and have done for years now and it's gotten quiet the last few weeks no sure where they all went
I feel like there's a huge difference between cracking down on drug lord gangs to prevent homicides, versus trying to make sure people don't die of overdoses or bad products.
You're comparing apples to oranges. El Salvador have a war on organised crime, not a war on drugs per se.
The videos of entire companies of soldiers storming the streets are a good show of force but again, they're targeting violent drug lords and criminal gangs, not random addicts.
Unless you're suggesting that the British Army should deploy to urban Britain and shoot on sight anyone they catch smoking a spliff?
The drug murders there and Columbia, Peru, Mexico etc are caused by the drug trade.
Like any product, it only exists to satisfy a demand.
The demand comes from the West, when compartively wealthy Westerners, middle-class students etc accross the west have a bag of coke, some pills etc they bare some responsibility for the death and destruction caused in these poor countries as it is the demand that causes the problem.
If we halted the demand then the Trade would die.
Would you approve of the approach that the Government took with drink-driving? When the drink driving laws came into force people ignored them, when professionals started going to jail for it, the country had a culture change.
They don't have a drug problem in Japan or UAE - the reason being that people go to jail for serious time for possesion.
Howling at you trying to pin drugs on the middle classes, people of all classes are rattling coke, pills whatever every weekend in Scotland. Secondly you must be a proper spacker to think emulating the policies of some theocratic Middle Eastern shithole with no freedom or fucking suicide and functional alcoholism capital Japan.
There are different groups yes, middle-class studenty types like to portray themselves as socially concious than others, I assume you are or was part of that group otherwise you wouldn't have taken issue with it.
When anyone snorts a line it is the realisation of torture, murders, terrorism, oppresion in many financially deprived areas of the globe in order for that powder to go from a leaf to up the nose. It is a production line of mayhem and hell and people do not care.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_El_Salvador
El Salvador has a population 1million higher than here, these are the murder rates etc.
The issue there was street gangs deported from socal, the el Salvador government and police didn't know what hit them literally and the gangs took over quickly.
They killed anybody including police, soldiers, politicians and civilians. Scotland the vast majority of gang related crime is gang on gang violence it's very rare for police or civilians to be murdered randomly by gangs
Bukele suspended the right to a fair trial, allowing up to 900 people to be tried collectively at once. Do you really want to live under a regime that has powers like that?
They basically locked up 80K Salvadorans based on little evidence or due process. If you even look a bit like a gang member, prison. Tattoos, prison. If someone doesnt like you and says youre in a gang, prison. They’ve reduced the rate of gang violence, but there is still a huge drug problem
We’ll see if you feel that way as you step over someone in the midst of a heroin high as you take the weans to school.
Decriminalisation is absolutely not the answer. Reforming our drug rehabilitation services to meet the needs of modern drugs instead of trying to solve everything with methadone is a good first step.
If someone is going to take heroin, they will do it. Making them legal allows for taxation and control, and reduction in organised crime making money from them.
You're hypothetical situation isn't going to happen unless you deal with that already.
Explain to me how it wouldn’t happen?
Zero consequence for taking heroin openly in the street? You think a heroin user who is at rock bottom is going to think twice about doing it in front of a school?
You don't really see many people openly drinking outside of schools.
To your point on rehabs, yes that's needed, but where's the money coming from? Punishment for petty crimes of drug users is a drain financially and does nothing to help drug users.
I don't think anyone is saying "yeah free drugs", but why not reallocate funding needed to persecute addicts to help rehabilitate them.
Drinking in the street is illegal and has been for a while.
You need to have a legal deterrent for strong drugs and the crimes that are spawned by their use.
Drugs like heroin are utterly deadly and destroy lives as well as entire communities.
Legalising cannabis? Go for it. It won’t ever kill anyone. Heroin? I genuinely cannot believe there are people in favour of it being legalised.
Decriminalised is not legalisation. It would likely still be illegal to distribute it, and there would be a process for getting it through governmental means. Weed is already available that way.
Such a parochial viewpoint.
The drug problem would be resolved if we took the Japanese or UAE approach to drugs.
Caught in possesion? - 2 years in jail, no matter the amount. Drug Dealer? 25 years, fulltime.
That is a war on drugs, there is no war on drugs in this country - just the illusion of one.
You could argue America has tried this and it hasn’t worked. Sadly we lack the infrastructure to deal with a sudden ride in drug conviction penalties, as well as the funds to improve the infrastructure needed to facilitate it.
Agree with you on the dealing part though. I’d happily give people peddling heroin, Valium, gear etc a 20 year sentence.
It is the demand that creates the problem, the supply is a response to that.
America has not tried it as the justice system there is so fractured and inconsistent. Federal, State, Local, ATF, FBI, Sherifs, etc. Different states and principalites etc. There may be pockets of areas that have tried it and if we dig into the detail of that, we might find that when someone is severely punished for an infraction then people mighy think twice.
Until the demand is dealt with, supply will always be an issue
I'm not ant-drugs, but we already tried this in victorian times & some of our best literature describes the absolutely horrendous conditions that led to.
You make drugs more open & easier to obtain & you'll open the floodgates. Especially with life in the UK being harder than it's been for a while.
Weed & ecstasy might be OK as we can grow or manufacture here. But coke, heroin etc would be funding crime & terrorism either way because of where it comes from.
I'm so glad HMRC takes money away from my wages and therefore my family to provide safe consumption rooms for those who have failed to face up to life's challenges and decided to stick poison in their blood instead. I'm so glad normal folk think this is a good idea.
I believe we need to offer a lifeline to people who have fallen into drugs, a way back into society must always be there. Trouble is not everybody in that pot wants the lifeline.
Agree there are parts of society far more in need of investment than people having a safe, tax payer funded room to inject smack.
Barely any of them do. It's smack. They've made their choice. Stick them all on Inchmurrin with a couple baggies and let them get on with it.
Or if wealthy philanthropists want to fund these rooms then fine. Hardworking taxpayers should not be footing the bill.
We already foot the bill you spacker, paying for court system every time they go through it and then paying to keep them in jail where no doubt they can still get a bag of smack if they want
Always best to take the gamble out of the situation. If you have pharmaceutically certified drugs available you kill the cowboy culture that literally kills people. Then you can address the problem of why people take drugs on its own.
I'd agree but make users register and take them in injecting centres etc - petty crime would plummet - can't really see any downside to this
Nah, I think it's important to protect people's anonymity with this kind of stuff. If you have to put your name and details on a register to take drugs, people will go right back to buying it off some dodgy guy in the street.
They already have to give a unique code formed from their initials and date of birth in order to use needle exchange services. From experience of working with the them, most users would have no problem using the same code if it got them access to free drugs.
Forcing people to register is asking for a data leak that’ll destroy people’s families and prospects.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. It's exactly the kind of thing that would get hacked/leaked and it absolutely would ruin people's lives.
I think a lot of people here have a serious crime and punishment (with heavy emphasis on the punishment) outlook, and anything that suggests not hurting those who they think should be punished will upset them.
It's no different to the reality that already exists. Community pharmacies currently hold the details of tens of thousands of addicts being treated for opiate/benzodiazepine/alcohol addiction, and drug service users already need to provide a unique identifiable code formed from their initials and DoB in order to access needle exchange services. Do you think we should stop offering those services to prevent a data breach?
Agree
I’m not taking edibles (brownies) in an injecting centre. Fuck off either that idea. Nobody ever caused problems by eating them.
Ya what???
Cannabis is a drug available on prescription but illegal to buy outside of that in Scotland, relevant to the comment you just replied to. It’s not the only one not causing problems either. Who ever caused problems sitting in their mates couch doing MDMA?
Thought it would be obvious I was talking about drugs people generally get addicted to and then commit crime to fund their habit smack, crack, meth etc
Can't have have one without the hour lost years of my life due to alcohol yet that's the drug everyone is meant to consume Could personally go out on crack and brown binges at the height of the madness but I'd always go back to booze Been sober just over a year and 3 months now Getting a cannabis prescription in my early days of sobriety was pretty key for me in recovery I think
My apologies Was never stated and I’m used to people here lumping all drugs into the same basket so to speak.
Injection sights should have been a giveaway unless your boofing your brownies.
Need them for the steroid users too. They REALLY need monitored, many under the impression that they are just being hard lifters.
Brown in, brown out.
The basket of drugs
You clearly haven’t been subjected to my patter on mdma
Well I could tell you a few stories. Weed is sound because every cunt is just gouched after a joint. As a functioning alcoholic I’d rather be at a party with every cunt just MWI, but as soon as Gear or Mandy come out I cannae be fucked with that because you know a scrap will end up happening.
A scrap on mandy? Sort a parties was that 🤣
Here's a chance to seriously decrease crime, help addicts, and keep safer communities but nah. You want your fucking edibles. Muppet.
Personally think there's a way to solve this, not sure this is it.
The problem of substance abuse needs to be addressed as it is. And correctly quantified and monitored. Making it available like this allows that to happen. And the gangsterism and street crime element can be addressed for what it is
I'm going to assume you don't drink alcohol if you're this into prohibition.
I'm not into prohibition at all just don't think legalization of all drugs is the way to go.
Literally prohibition...
What’s your solution then?
It’s not going far enough tbh what exactly do you suggest? Only alternative on par with this would be an off licence or dispensary type situation and they once again provide a problem that products straight from a pharmacist would likely eliminate.
This idiotic logic that every social problem is someone's else's fault, we should just allow it because it's mean to punish people, eventually we will create a utopia anyway where no one will do drugs or commit crime.
Not at all. It is a social ill but prohibition exacerbates the problem by putting it behind the lens of the criminal underworld. The social ill of substance misuse needs to be addressed as purely that regarding its effect on the individual. Usage monitored and shared with health professionals openly. Behind that curtain of criminality it just adds this cowboy element of bullshit. Those guys can just be circumvented at source. Pharmaceutical level drugs for all for the right price with monitoring and treatment is the way to brush them aside and begin seriously dealing with substance abuse itself.
Dude opium was legal, there were opium dens across the UK. Go read about it. Britain unleashed opium on China as a weapon of war, that's the type of effect it has being freely available in society. Prohibition has lots of problems and is hard. But people like you are so worried about helping someone who is already lost that you don't realise you'd be damning 10 more.
See during that time were they monitoring consumption and offering rehab by sharing such info with health professionals? Were these opium dens staffed by health professionals? That's the difference between an opium den and a pharmacy.
Opium isn’t currently illegal, it’s just heavily controlled. Ever taken codeine? Welcome to the world of opiates.
Wow you're so right, I already take codeine that's just like heroin. When you put it like that I'm totally up for taxpayer funded heroin for kids.
Would take away a huge chunk of criminal revenue in one fell swoop, while swelling public coffers. It's a no brainer
Selling them in pharmacies means private owners make massive profit while paying pharmacy workers like shit. No improvement in public funding whatsoever.
You could make it a state monopoly? Work's fine for alcohol in Norway
No on in charge around here is going to do that.
Depends how such a thing would be implemented. If it’s literally a case of just selling in pharmacies, well that’s happened with heroin before in the early twentieth century and it led to widespread addiction. It’s not a simple case of just legalising all drugs and thinking that will help everything, that’s not a sensible way of looking at it. And I’m a former heroin addict. Safe injecting rooms and all that are an excellent idea though, and seem to work well; they should roll that out even more.
Everything should be legalised, taxed and regulated. Like you get a license or ID card or whatever, everyone has access to x amount. Harder drugs are given out in lesser quantities. You scan your ID and you get your pre ordained amount. You're not going to stop people taking it, so you may as well make it as safe as possible.
What happens when people want more than the regulated X amount?
What happens when people gouge their own eyes out with a spoon? You can only legislate so much, and you can't help those who don't want it. But many addicts are desperate to fix their lives, they just don't have the tools. Much better to have Sally the Pharmacist giving them certified 100% clean heroin in a safe space off the street and give them access to addicition services, than Dodgy Bob the fentanyl and fake valium king. And we get billions in tax revenue to boot.
Bit of an obnoxious comparison. What I'm saying is that this approach doesn't eliminate the black market/drug underworld. It just forces it to operate slightly differently now that the state is supplying them with curious, newly addicted opiate dependents.
I really, really doubt anyone who isn't on one of these drugs will wander into a safe injection site, see the typical clientele and the medical environment, and decide to have a go themselves.
I'm sure every heroin addict looked and thought "that'll never be me" at some point.
Harder drugs are given out in lesser quantities? What does that even mean? 😂 I don’t think that would work. I do think addicts of very hard drugs should be given it as part of treatment and moderated, but selling it freely and trying to control them from that vantage is naive. I’m not arguing it shouldn’t be made as safe as possible but tbh people who generally have no idea about it think legalising would solve all the problems instantly, but it’s not as simple as that. Like I said, heroin used to be legal and available to buy at pharmacies and it ended in widespread addiction and poverty and death. Hence why it ended up banned in the western world. Even if you decriminalise all drugs which I’m in favour for, just decriminalising doesn’t solve everything (decriminalising, not legalising, there’s a difference). It’s such a multifaceted and complex issue. Legalisation and the way you’re looking at it might solve a few issues, but it would instigate a gamut of other problems.
Right now I'm feeling tempted to find out if I can handle a full gram of pharmaceutically pure coke in one sesh. Will never find out with the trade as it is ...dealers are bawbags
Unless you’ve got a major habit (and thus a gargantuan tolerance), that gram will last you days.
Will I ever know? 😢
You could always get a gram of prop and see how long that lasts you. That should give you a good idea. Where you’d get it would be another story, you’d want to be careful as from what I understand cross contamination with fentanyl is still a risk, even with ching. The fact that it’s a possibility is frightening stuff.
And therein the problem lies...a dealer hears someone wants a full gram and that shit is getting cut mate ..
Dealers aren’t cutting a gram at a time, that’d take forever. If the last leg dealer is doing any cutting themselves (often not the case) they’re cutting a batch at a time, probably turning two ounces into three ounces, and they’re not cutting it with fentanyl because dead customers aren’t repeat customers. Fentanyl cross contamination happens somewhere in the chain where a dealer is also handling heroin (heroin being the drug most typically cut with fentanyl to boost the effects and make it feel stronger than the shitty heroin they’re selling actually is). This is something that legalisation and regulation would go a long way to solving.
Semi-related, but everyone in Scotland can carry Naloxone, a drug to temporarily reverse an opioid overdose. If you don't know anyone that uses opioids or aren't a social worker etc. it's unlikely you'll ever encounter someone on an overdose, but if you ever do this does vastly increase their chances of survival. Comes in two forms, one being a nasal spray (the other is an injection, don't know how I'd personally feel about giving that to a stranger though). More information [here](https://www.sfad.org.uk/learning-hub/overdose-awareness-and-naloxone). There's a link to a quick online course you should do to learn about how to recognise an overdose and how to use the Naloxone. You can then get a free kit from SFAD. Comes with a little pouch that you can clip onto things.
As someone who works in addictions as part of my job I think it's so important to get as many people as possible carrying as it's a genuine life saver. These's days there's more of a chance of seeing someone overdosing on street Valium or DTs from alcohol withdrawal but the good thing about Naloxone is it can be administered to anyone and it won't cause any side effects if it's not opioids so it's always better to use it than not.
A family member of mine works in addiction counselling in Canada and gave me some to take with me to festivals. Luckily I’ve never needed it. None of my friends had even heard of it. Which, considering most drugs are getting cut with awful shit nowadays, is terrifying. We need better drug awareness campaigns. Not just for teenagers. For the 30,40 year olds that still go out and take the occasional line or two. More and more getting cut with nasty shit.
What a daft headline, illegal drugs already are available from pharmacies that's the point.
ITT: drugs are bad (except anything I do that's bad for me and society, that's my decision.)
Glasgow Live takes worst possible interpretation of reasonable suggestion for clicks; film at 11
I agree that drugs should be decriminalised and taxed by the government. Absolutely nothing has been accomplished trying to defeat the war on drugs. Sending people to prison or not helping them at all with addictions is not what we should be doing. Be the drug cartel, test the drugs so they are good and not poison, have safe havens for addicts to take drugs and tax it. The money made goes towards paying for rehabilitation and for nurses and doctors. Absolutely out there idea but what we've been doing clearly hasn't worked.
Heroin dealers try to generate new customers and sell impure drugs. The cost to society is huge and people go through hell. It's basically agreed that we should have safe consumption rooms to make it safer for users and keep needles off the street, but why still let dealers profit.
From what I’ve read it worked in Portugal
Was it not simply decriminalisation in Portugal rather than actual dispensaries?
It is still criminal, just the chap is thinking in same modes, a different way. The difference in Portugal is that it’s treated as a health issue - so my sentiment is that a different approach is 100% welcome
There are far too many people out there who've read two sentences about Portugal and think it's a model to emulate. Nothing about drug addiction is going to be easy and my big problem with the decriminalisation advocates is that they seem to think they have a silver bullet. They don't.
I agree, are you applying that mindset to me?
Sadly Portugal is badly struggling with that policy atm, if you google recent articles on it they break down the failure of it.
Its goal was to obtain a significant decrease in HIV, that’s been achieved. It has also reduced drug deaths to significantly below the European average. Overall drug use has actually decreased. Also increased number of people seeking treatment, lower burden on criminal justice system. Moving the problem from criminal to health services has put a strain on their health service, funding especially after 20 years, and in current world is challenging, and like the U.K. has regional variability and funding varies and availability of the programmes is limited in inner city areas (dense populations, lower socioeconomic capability) Neither side is a rose garden, people are people, but in terms of a public policy decision, it’s nudged more correctly than Scotland’s obviously failed outcome - time we looked at other ways
Not what happened in Portugal though
It’s just a matter of implementation, well thought out (and funded) implementation The law (Drug Law 30/2000) maintained the status of illegality for using or possessing any drug for personal use without authorization. However, for persons addicted to said drug, their case was now deemed an administrative offence. The authority to impose penalties or sanctions in these cases was transferred from the police and justice system to so-called dissuasion commissions if the amount possessed was no more than a ten-day supply of that substance.
Which is not what this article is suggesting.
Not quite, Portugal accepted the reality of illegal drugs and they remain illegal - but in sentiment and approach, yes - what we’re doing is not working, let’s observe, learn and implement other strategies that could possibly work
Not so much in Portland unfortunately.
I’m thinking the Portuguese approach was to take the ringfenced “war on drugs” - cash and inject it instead into safety, outreach, education and such - exactly the same funding used on prohibition was instead used on harm reduction and prevention. Don’t know about Portland, if they did the same.
And not so much in Vancouver either. Folk need to step back from the blinkered notion that it’s the “progressive” thing to do. Decriminalising it all leads to the tent cities and drug taking/injecting openly on the streets……. because it’s now legal and those that want to can do it where they like. The police are left powerless. Drug users all start congregating together in even greater numbers. The tent city starts to take over several blocks. If you’ve a business or you live the area you’re stuck with it and completely fücked! No one is buying your property so you can move away from it. Criminalising people because they have an addiction isn’t the answer. The “war on drugs” does seem utterly futile. But decriminalising just ends in an utter shït show! For those that think it’s the answer, ask yourself, you’d be quite happy if it was happening on your street or next to your kids school?
Sorry I don’t know about Vancouver either, I’m talking about something that has famously, observably, well studied and impressively worked in Portugal. The approach was to stop the ridiculous money spent on the inane prohibition and instead spend **the same** on harm reduction, eduction, targeted intervention, and so on. This is the critical part. I don’t know about Vancouver, so I can’t comment. It’s interesting if they’ve implemented precisely the same protocol and came up with a different result. Why would that be so.
Hes from a city with one of the worst deaths in Western Europe for drug deaths btw How hes not seen that decriminalisation is the answer is astonishing but i think he might be a bit doss bastard with that name. Daft right wing bastards that love celebrating battles fought hundreds of years ago they dress up as soldiers and play with majorettes like wee girls and go on about catholics all the time its truly tragic
Seen people use in the streets for decades here lol its a common sign in all of the uk cities al the play parks built near high rises used to be riddled with needles "BroomhouseBear" why have i got a feeling you will be celebrating in a couple of weeks time at the 12th If youve never seen anyone shoot up in Glasgow in public you must be fucking blind
The 12th? I couldn’t give a flying fück about the Orange Order. What a bizarre comment in reply to a what I would say is a valid point about the potential unintended consequences of decriminalising possession of illegal drugs for personal use.
Biggest objections for making drugs legal comes from drug dealers. Anybody else is just a willing idiot.
Or, like, the whole of Portugal… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal#:~:text=Portugal%20signed%20all%20the%20UN,is%20not%20a%20punishable%20crime). Especially have a look at “Table and chart comparing countries” Problem though: not all devolved policy. The money that was previously spent on the inane “war on drugs” was reinfected and put into safe places, needle exchange, education, outreach. Portugal went that route, very controversially, because of HIV increase due to intravenous drug use. There is another way though, a proven, world renowned other way. I’ve also read competing accounts of alcohol pricing being a factor. Some strongly in the direction of it was alcohol pricing that drove the spike, others strongly against. The answer is not easy to ascertain, many competing interests (alcohol lobby, politicians, moralistic sentiments all factors, so it’s hard to get down to unambiguous answers.
Pharmacies are busy enough as they are. Take the methadone users out of pharmacies and create new drug stores/centres for recreational drugs and meth/heroine users. Use all the tax to build them along with rehabilitation services. Proper programs funded for people to come off the bad stuff and facilitate the safer use of recreationals by testing and controlling strength/quality. Take back control from the drug barons and free up the jail space that’s desperately needed for the peedos and truly bad eggs!
This doesn't address why there are so many people here taking and dying of drugs in Scotland vs the rUK or other places in Europe. Also, I assume it would need to be funded from government so presumably there would be a limit that one person could only buy so much. Would that not address anyone needing a fix inbetween and going to a dealer?
I could be wrong but I think Switzerland is somewhere close to what you've described.
I don't know what you mean?
A beautiful exercise in the art of writing terribly loaded headlines
Magine gon to the chemist for 3 for a ton yeehaw
Every shop sells alcohol. Why not other things? The only substantive difference between alcohol and heroin is political. If you believe alcohol is safee, that's cultural indoctrination talking.
Welllll there’s a bit more of a difference than political 😅. Someone having a drink at dinner is a lot different than someone injecting themselves with heroin at dinner.
Did I specify injection? People smoked opium socially in the 19th century
You are at it aren’t you? You’re not seriously suggesting alcohol and heroin are basically the same?
From an alcoholic in recovery that's also dabbled in opiates/kit Booze for me was so much more destructive it was a no brainer
Alcohol is addictive and kills loads of people, its just socially acceptable. Heroin is a lot more addictive but if your an addict to either one you can still die and totally destroy your life so they're not that different compared with really low risk drugs.
I remember watching a profound documentary about a recovered heroin addict who did outreach work in schools, warning of the dangers, and the decline and such, harrowing stuff. Guy nipped out for a fag and the interviewer asked “you smoke, I’d have thought your experience would have put you off” - guy’s response though, heroin was easy compared to fags - chilling statement
They are absolutely nowhere near the same. I drank every weekend as a young man. I’m in my 30s and tee total. Never felt any sort of struggle to stop. I could use heroin once and it would literally take my soul. You either don’t understand how dangerous heroin is or you’re just stupid. I’m sorry, I generally try to understand the views of others and respect them. Comparing alcohol with heroin saying they’re the same because you can ultimately become addictive to both. Is the single stupidest thing I’ve ever seen on Reddit, and believe me there is plenty of competition for that title.
You had a few drinks at the weekend and never had a problem with it, so i must be wrong.... I have tried heroin and various opiates and i honestly never really enjoyed them, its not my thing and the same for plenty of people who do various opiates recreationally. On the other hand i have been drinking most days for nearly 15 years and 2 of my friends have nearly died from it. Im not saying heroin is equal but you can equally fuck your life up from both of them.
Heroin is more acutely toxic (easier to overdose) and probably more addictive in the short term, but alcohol is much worse for your body long term. If you could take pure heroin every day it wouldn’t impact your health much if you injected it properly, whereas alcohol is a group 1 carcinogen (in the same category as radiation and asbestos), causes heart disease, neurological disease, vascular disease, liver disease, it damages every organ in your body. Heavy alcohol use is also much more dangerous to stop than to stop taking heroin. You will feel like shit going cold turkey, but its not a medical emergency. Drinkers that quit suddenly can drop dead from grand mal seizures, or heart attacks. Sudden alcohol withdrawl also causes cumulative brain damage that can cause memory loss, problems walking and other neurological problems.
"I could use heroino once and it would literally take my soul" Jesus That's not how addiction works youd probably just feel a bit stoned and nauseous trying kit for your first time
Yeah, it's weird how it's so moreish but such a crappy buzz. I did no more than a handful of times in my late 20s but narrowly avoided becoming habitual after my flatmate, and probably best bud to this day, gave me the most heartfelt berrating for planning on heading for another fix. Mostly stuck to weed, acid, shrooms, speed, eckies and random powders that came in and out of fashion. Drug and alcohol free since 2013. Except one time I broke a rib and drank cannabis tea to get to sleep. Kicked cigs/nicotine back in 2016 that IS the toughest. A combination of availability and just being very chemically addictive.
>I could use heroin once and it would literally take my soul. > >Is the single stupidest thing I’ve ever seen on Reddit, and believe me there is plenty of competition for that title.
"I could use heroin once and it would literally take my soul" By that rationale, every person that's ever received morphine in a hospital has walked out a junky?
Your comment clearly hasn't went down well with people that have experienced life on that lane Did no one remember the horizon documentary that was aired years ago with Dr David Nutt that actually ranked drugs on how harmful they were by science? [https://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/nov/02/david-nutt-dangerous-drug-list](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/nov/02/david-nutt-dangerous-drug-list) There was a full documentary
That list makes for interesting reading. Cannot fucking believe there are people who actively want heroin legalised.
I want everything legalised its the only way forward
it is legal its just know as diamorphine, you will get the very rare junkie that gets a script
Decriminalise it and let people shoot up wherever they want. I can’t see any potential issue there.
[https://hospitalpharmacyeurope.com/news/editors-pick/diamorphine-the-return-of-an-old-friend/](https://hospitalpharmacyeurope.com/news/editors-pick/diamorphine-the-return-of-an-old-friend/) Thats heroin that article is talking about Ive seen people shoot in public since ive been a kid brought up in Glasgow its a common sight here and always has been, why not have a space for them?
It’l get so much worse if they’re given legal right to do so. Because there are people in this country in need and much more deserving of public funds. Invest in an infrastructure that can help drug users get clean and back into society, absolutely. Waste cash we don’t have for people who don’t want help or to change? Fucking pull the other one.
Sorry mate it seems you've taken the moral high ground instead of looking at anything rationally, sad really
It isn’t rational to champion the cause of decriminalising drugs which is essentially just making it someone else’s problem. More than likely the people who have to deal with people lying out their tits on heroin and street Valium everywhere. I genuinely don’t think people with ideas or notions like this live in the real world. Decriminalise weed, should’ve been done years ago. I want the polis going through the door of scumbags peddling street Valium rather than someone that’s got 2 plants in the loft. There has to be a hard hitting zero tolerance approach to those supplying hard drugs. Possession and use of them also has to have a deterrent or our European record drug death rate will spiral beyond the point of us ever shaking off that title.
No, [alcohol is more harmful than heroin.](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11660210)
That's disingenuous. That study ranks it at worst for society. Surprise surprise heroin ranks worst for the individual. If the same amount of people took heroin as people drink alcohol I don't doubt it would smash that #1 spot on the society rankings.
Nah alcohol probably kills more globally. Than clean pure heroin.
‘Clean pure heroin’ still leaves people looking like apocalyptic zombies, it still destroys lives and entire communities. Alcohol can be enjoyed responsibly regularly. If you tell me heroin can I’ll be concerned for your state of mind.
Yet if you ask the majority they started through alcohol. Same with any other drug.
Just ignore the millions of people who enjoy alcohol responsibly worldwide so you’ve got room for your pretendy philosopher nonsense. Heroin is pure evil and those advocating for it to be legalised should be in straight jackets
I think there’s more harm in it being illegal. Do I want it legal? When did I say that? But it being illegal does not stop people taking it, why are people injecting fentanyl over an opium tincture? Ask the gov.
I want it illegal so there is some form of a deterrent to those using it. I don’t work and live a clean life so that I have to spend time stepping over scores of people lying all over the place out their tits because liberal idiots thought it was a good idea. If you want to just bash alcohol go for it. This is a thread about legalising all drugs which is fucking unfiltered stupidity
Legalising all drugs? It’s about selling “controlled drugs” at pharmacies what they already fucking do. Legalising means you could buy heroin at a shop 🤦♂️
Methadone was intended to be a stepping stone to getting off heroin. It needs looked at. Fuck spending money we don’t have on shit like this. Genuinely sickens me there are people waiting years for surgery and people want to invest in heavy drugs being ‘safe’ for people who often contribute sweet fuck all to society. Utter bollocks.
Every drug I ever tried was through being drunk with alcohol…
Good for you. I’ve been out my tits numerous times before going tee total. Never once had the urge to shoot up because I have a brain in my head. So do most.
When did I say I have “shot up”? Please remind me and stop putting words in my mouth…
You’re almost bragging about taking drugs. Shot up, snorted, fired eckies up your dungchute I don’t care. You say that as though everybody will be the same. You want to take drugs it’s your decision. Stop thinking everybody else will.
Bragging now? Most of my best friends are dead to drugs (because it wasn’t the drugs they bought) Wouldn’t call it bragging. I’m more concerned for the people that die taking something that isn’t the substance they want…..
What is your actual point here? Legalise heroin? Don’t legalise heroin? Or are we just getting drip fed your life story. Heavy drugs have always been dangerous and have a high risk of serious injury or death. Im not signing up to have our country become a gathering ground for heavy drug users to run into the ground, all to ensure that the drugs they take are safe for them to take as an appetiser to destroying the communities they inhabit.
I have a prescription for medical weed, personally think it should be much easier IE the Canada version. That raises taxes and takes revenue from gangs They will find something else to make money from though. Not sure I'd want all drugs to be legal I think certain drugs need to be legal though id draw the line at heroin. Recreational drugs are fine in moderation
No the only way forward is legalizing the lot
Decriminalisation yes legalization not so sure
Scotland exports an enormous quantity of whisky to the world. The damage done is incalculable. We are so proud. Comparatively harmless drugs such as cannabis,mdma and psilocybin are punished severely. Even when the worst drugs are included the damage done isn't even on the same page. Everybody in Scotland sees the societal damage alcohol wreaks in our communities. We are so proud.
Yass. Weed on "minor ailments". Ali G's policy if prescription weed for "itchy scroat" is one step closer.
Weed prescription is already a thing mate, try keep up. Cannabis is legal for medical use if you go private
Yeah, but not for minor ailments like itchy scroat
Just for anxiety and desperation which you could give yourself at any time 😂😂
Great idea......now tackle poverty and jobs
Never worked in America & look at the the state of the place
Muppet
Who wouldn’t go to their local boots for a bit of smack?
I used to be for legalisation, but now worry it'll end up like the bits of America where they did the same - now scary zombie cities.
What are they all escaping from?. Treat that first.
They do this in Portugal i think, if its working there then why are we so special?
Sell it out ice cream vans.
That already happens today the local icy in possil has a wide variety of narcotics on offer
And then pharmacies become the number one targeted shop for theft and violent robbery.
There's already a shitload of controlled substances in these places that people could easily use to get high, and yet they're not the number one targeted shop for theft and violent robbery. Use a wee bit of common sense.
🤦🏻
Yup
Is our council that bad there giving a Walter white a go
Well said about time someone spoke the truth
Do whatever it takes to get the ned cunts out the chemist when I'm in picking up my prescription.
I see Scotlands all wise overlords looked at Americas drug problem and thought that looks like a good solution we can do it too. Can’t wait for the zombies to be crowding out the normal folk in Glasgow. The town Center will be a no go zone.
Not sure if they've all died but the city centre isn't been that bad lately. I work slap bang in the middle of the worst of it and have done for years now and it's gotten quiet the last few weeks no sure where they all went
That’s coz they are all round of back of st Enochs at the smack ambulance 😅
War on drugs isn't lost. You should look at what el Salvador a country with less than 10% of Scotland's budget has done
I feel like there's a huge difference between cracking down on drug lord gangs to prevent homicides, versus trying to make sure people don't die of overdoses or bad products.
You're comparing apples to oranges. El Salvador have a war on organised crime, not a war on drugs per se. The videos of entire companies of soldiers storming the streets are a good show of force but again, they're targeting violent drug lords and criminal gangs, not random addicts. Unless you're suggesting that the British Army should deploy to urban Britain and shoot on sight anyone they catch smoking a spliff?
They should go after the drug dealers and organized criminals here. Pretty obvious no?
They locked up gang members due to murders like record breaking numbers of murders the drugs were a secondary thing
And why can't we do that here?
We don't have 30k murders per year
The drug murders there and Columbia, Peru, Mexico etc are caused by the drug trade. Like any product, it only exists to satisfy a demand. The demand comes from the West, when compartively wealthy Westerners, middle-class students etc accross the west have a bag of coke, some pills etc they bare some responsibility for the death and destruction caused in these poor countries as it is the demand that causes the problem. If we halted the demand then the Trade would die. Would you approve of the approach that the Government took with drink-driving? When the drink driving laws came into force people ignored them, when professionals started going to jail for it, the country had a culture change. They don't have a drug problem in Japan or UAE - the reason being that people go to jail for serious time for possesion.
Howling at you trying to pin drugs on the middle classes, people of all classes are rattling coke, pills whatever every weekend in Scotland. Secondly you must be a proper spacker to think emulating the policies of some theocratic Middle Eastern shithole with no freedom or fucking suicide and functional alcoholism capital Japan.
There are different groups yes, middle-class studenty types like to portray themselves as socially concious than others, I assume you are or was part of that group otherwise you wouldn't have taken issue with it. When anyone snorts a line it is the realisation of torture, murders, terrorism, oppresion in many financially deprived areas of the globe in order for that powder to go from a leaf to up the nose. It is a production line of mayhem and hell and people do not care.
People will do drugs and drink if it's illegal or not, mass incarceration and tanks patroling the streets isn't the way to go to stop that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_El_Salvador El Salvador has a population 1million higher than here, these are the murder rates etc. The issue there was street gangs deported from socal, the el Salvador government and police didn't know what hit them literally and the gangs took over quickly. They killed anybody including police, soldiers, politicians and civilians. Scotland the vast majority of gang related crime is gang on gang violence it's very rare for police or civilians to be murdered randomly by gangs
Bukele suspended the right to a fair trial, allowing up to 900 people to be tried collectively at once. Do you really want to live under a regime that has powers like that?
They basically locked up 80K Salvadorans based on little evidence or due process. If you even look a bit like a gang member, prison. Tattoos, prison. If someone doesnt like you and says youre in a gang, prison. They’ve reduced the rate of gang violence, but there is still a huge drug problem
Leftist woke propaganda. The guys are all covered head to toe in gang tattoos. Tattoos which depict their crimes and how many people they have killed.
Everything I don’t like is woke leftism lol
We’ll see if you feel that way as you step over someone in the midst of a heroin high as you take the weans to school. Decriminalisation is absolutely not the answer. Reforming our drug rehabilitation services to meet the needs of modern drugs instead of trying to solve everything with methadone is a good first step.
If someone is going to take heroin, they will do it. Making them legal allows for taxation and control, and reduction in organised crime making money from them. You're hypothetical situation isn't going to happen unless you deal with that already.
Explain to me how it wouldn’t happen? Zero consequence for taking heroin openly in the street? You think a heroin user who is at rock bottom is going to think twice about doing it in front of a school?
You don't really see many people openly drinking outside of schools. To your point on rehabs, yes that's needed, but where's the money coming from? Punishment for petty crimes of drug users is a drain financially and does nothing to help drug users. I don't think anyone is saying "yeah free drugs", but why not reallocate funding needed to persecute addicts to help rehabilitate them.
Drinking in the street is illegal and has been for a while. You need to have a legal deterrent for strong drugs and the crimes that are spawned by their use. Drugs like heroin are utterly deadly and destroy lives as well as entire communities. Legalising cannabis? Go for it. It won’t ever kill anyone. Heroin? I genuinely cannot believe there are people in favour of it being legalised.
Decriminalised is not legalisation. It would likely still be illegal to distribute it, and there would be a process for getting it through governmental means. Weed is already available that way.
Drinking in the street is illegal in Glasgow. Only Glasgow. Not because of drink.
Why has the polis not called in on Boteco De Brasil.... (Sorry)
That’s what decriminalisation does!
Such a parochial viewpoint. The drug problem would be resolved if we took the Japanese or UAE approach to drugs. Caught in possesion? - 2 years in jail, no matter the amount. Drug Dealer? 25 years, fulltime. That is a war on drugs, there is no war on drugs in this country - just the illusion of one.
Ever heard of the three strike law in America? The threat of 25-life doesn’t stop the drug trade.
nice strawman as 3-strike law isn't drug specific. Any answer to the UAE or Japan example?
Which made little impact. It also made no impact in the states or anywhere else it’s been tried.
America tried that, it failed so next plan is maybe somewhere in the middle?
You could argue America has tried this and it hasn’t worked. Sadly we lack the infrastructure to deal with a sudden ride in drug conviction penalties, as well as the funds to improve the infrastructure needed to facilitate it. Agree with you on the dealing part though. I’d happily give people peddling heroin, Valium, gear etc a 20 year sentence.
It is the demand that creates the problem, the supply is a response to that. America has not tried it as the justice system there is so fractured and inconsistent. Federal, State, Local, ATF, FBI, Sherifs, etc. Different states and principalites etc. There may be pockets of areas that have tried it and if we dig into the detail of that, we might find that when someone is severely punished for an infraction then people mighy think twice. Until the demand is dealt with, supply will always be an issue
I'm not ant-drugs, but we already tried this in victorian times & some of our best literature describes the absolutely horrendous conditions that led to. You make drugs more open & easier to obtain & you'll open the floodgates. Especially with life in the UK being harder than it's been for a while. Weed & ecstasy might be OK as we can grow or manufacture here. But coke, heroin etc would be funding crime & terrorism either way because of where it comes from.
I'm so glad HMRC takes money away from my wages and therefore my family to provide safe consumption rooms for those who have failed to face up to life's challenges and decided to stick poison in their blood instead. I'm so glad normal folk think this is a good idea.
I believe we need to offer a lifeline to people who have fallen into drugs, a way back into society must always be there. Trouble is not everybody in that pot wants the lifeline. Agree there are parts of society far more in need of investment than people having a safe, tax payer funded room to inject smack.
Barely any of them do. It's smack. They've made their choice. Stick them all on Inchmurrin with a couple baggies and let them get on with it. Or if wealthy philanthropists want to fund these rooms then fine. Hardworking taxpayers should not be footing the bill.
We already foot the bill you spacker, paying for court system every time they go through it and then paying to keep them in jail where no doubt they can still get a bag of smack if they want