Divot in the fairway rule is just way too subjective for competitive play.
And I don't mean the PGA. Any local league or money game would suddenly see ramped up animosity and controversy as people argue over what is or isn't a divot.
exactly. free drop 6" from your ball when in fairway. so no change for someone thats ball is just sitting pretty in the FW already. their drop (which they would not really need to take, but so what if they did) would result in their lie being the same as it was originally, only 6" left/right or back form where it was. which is not gonna change the shot one bit.
https://preview.redd.it/9dr2bzs7h17d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07cae68c6e1c5d35fbd0793033cad61637639f88
nobody said "clean and place". just a fair way lie, instead of being in a trench after you hit a good shot, that some douchebag didnt fill/fix
only it doesn't need to be subjective at all. just say prefered lies in the FW and be done with it.
say its not in a divot at all but still in FW. or its in a divot thats 99.2% grown back. -same rule as being in a 3" deep trench. bump ball 6 " either direction no nearer the hole and play on. bump it 6" even if its not in divot, i dont care. its nto gonna change yor shot.
the "fairway" should be the "fair way". its not like bumping an already perfect lie makes it any better so why care?
You don't need to define a divot. You can move your ball once per 18 holes in the fairway. It can be due to a divot, a bump, goose poop, hardpan, whatever.
I wish people would stop going on about the divot thing. Is it annoying? Yes. Is it maybe unfair sometimes? Maybe yes.
BUT it’s impossible to fix. You simply cannot do it. There is no way you can have a rule which says you can move a ball out of a divot.
Why? Two words…. Patrick Reed.
There’s no definition of what is and isn’t a divot and cheaters will always try to use that to their advantage.
It’s just part of golf, it can’t be changed.
Bang on. I also think the frequency of the 'issue' is overstated. Maybe I'm lucky, but I end up hitting out of a divot a very small percentage of the times I hit the fairway. How often are folk here actually having this problem...? Every 5 rounds? Every 10? If it's more frequent then how many divots are there in these fairways!
thats a large labor increase tho. mowing several times a week vs just one. gonna raise the greens fees to do what you want. and you're gonna hear more mowers while you play, if you care about that.
Trying to figure out what counts as a big enough divot for relief would be an even dumber rule.
Hit out of the divot and move on. Quick and easy. Or just fluff your lie like you already do anytime you catch a bad one.
doesnt matter what counts or doesnt. bump it 6". if lie is perfect thant 6" wont make it more perfect. but go ahead and do it if you want. also gives you relief from goose (and other) actual shit in the fairways. (turkey, dog, coyote ect)
Every time this comes up I suggest that you are allowed to move your ball 6 inches in the fairway once per 18 holes. Gets rid of the rally crappy bad luck divot. No need to define a divot.
Anything that wouldn't otherwise realistically affect your score or outcome of a shot but for the fact that it is a penalty. Accidentally teeing up an inch ahead of the markers, accidentally making the ball move after address but before taking your swing, not marking the spot before lifting it to clean it on the green or lifting a ball elsewhere to identify it, etc.
I agree with the "drop out of a divot" thing mentioned by OP. That should be GUR, free drop within a foot or something.
I have some frustration with how there is no provision for free relief from an area that really should be marked as GUR but isn't. Most typical public courses, especially at the lower end of the price spectrum, have lots of these areas but they are seldomly marked as GUR because management either doesn't want to bother or figures players will just take free drops anyway. If any of these areas exist on a course being played for a pro tournament, high level amateur event, or even some club's member-guest, they would be well marked as GUR by paint or ropes and you'd get a free drop. So some guy playing at Bushwood CC gets a free GUR drop off a patch of fairway hardpan, but Joe Sixpack at the muni technically has to play it as it lies or take an unplayable lie penalty. Doesn't seem fair.
The problem is not balls in divots- the problem is people not filling or fixing them. This could stop being posted on this sub every 45 minutes if people would just replace/fill their divots.
if you wiff a tee shot its a stroke, but if you hit your tee ball so incredibly bad that it never even leaves the teeing ground, its a free re-tee. no penalty.
Royal and Ancients 25.3
Use of an artificial arm or leg is not a breach of
Rule 4.3
provided the player has a medical reason to use it and the Committee decides that its use does not give the player any unfair advantage over other players (see
Rule 4.3b
). Players in doubt about the use of a device should raise the matter as soon as possible with the Committee.
A player using a prosthetic device is still subject to the prohibitions in
Rule 4.3a
against using equipment in an abnormal way.
I want to use an artificial leg to hit my ball. This is a dumb rule
Personally I think balls that are stuck beneath the bunker lip, that's virtually unplayable, are treated stupidly.
Yes I can take an unplayable and drop it back in the bunker, but that's just daft. Literally a construction that stops me hitting in a hazard that already penalizes me.
only you're not correct about that ruling. you don't drop in the bunker. its almost like you're taking relief as proposed by OP from being in a divot, only they call it something else to complicate stuff and make golf as silly a game as possible. (embedded)
[https://youtu.be/ReEjKSyQbaU?si=Lx5sQQRC-tfw9YCK](https://youtu.be/ReEjKSyQbaU?si=Lx5sQQRC-tfw9YCK)
Sorry I don't understand. Can you explain?
The rules say : "The player may take unplayable ball relief for one penalty stroke under any of the options in Rule 19.2, except that: The ball must be dropped in and come to rest in the bunker if the player takes either back-on-the-line relief (see Rule 19.2b) or lateral relief (see Rule 19.2c)."
What do you mean you don't drop it in the bunker?
Dumbest rule in golf? Ryder cup captain can hit his ball off the tee on a practice swing and replace it without penalty, but someone grounds their club on an approach and it moves ever so slightly then they are assessed a 1 stroke penalty without making contact with the actual ball.
Definitely agree with that. I’d like to add the lost ball rule. I get it if you’re close to a penalty area, but if you know for sure you hit a ball in play and can’t find it, you should not be assessed a penalty. The fact that a tour pro’s have designated people to help find their ball tells me I don’t deserve a penalty.
Divot in the fairway rule is just way too subjective for competitive play. And I don't mean the PGA. Any local league or money game would suddenly see ramped up animosity and controversy as people argue over what is or isn't a divot.
Divot rule changing means free drops 100% of the time
Yeah the only way to make it work is just have a full time preferred lie in the fairway rule
Agreed. In the fairway? Cool. In the rough? Too bad.
exactly. free drop 6" from your ball when in fairway. so no change for someone thats ball is just sitting pretty in the FW already. their drop (which they would not really need to take, but so what if they did) would result in their lie being the same as it was originally, only 6" left/right or back form where it was. which is not gonna change the shot one bit.
Yup. Might as well play “lift, clean, and place” year round.
https://preview.redd.it/9dr2bzs7h17d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07cae68c6e1c5d35fbd0793033cad61637639f88 nobody said "clean and place". just a fair way lie, instead of being in a trench after you hit a good shot, that some douchebag didnt fill/fix
only it doesn't need to be subjective at all. just say prefered lies in the FW and be done with it. say its not in a divot at all but still in FW. or its in a divot thats 99.2% grown back. -same rule as being in a 3" deep trench. bump ball 6 " either direction no nearer the hole and play on. bump it 6" even if its not in divot, i dont care. its nto gonna change yor shot. the "fairway" should be the "fair way". its not like bumping an already perfect lie makes it any better so why care?
allow it once per 18 holes. Don't need to define a divot. No arguing.
Not the worst idea. Would be simple enough to track on the scorecard.
Why not allow mulligans then too, one per 9.
Because there is a huge difference between a mulligan and moving your ball 6 inches in an area that is supposed to give you a good lie. Lame argument.
So is allowing one per round, hence why I suggested it. Here's a better argument: define a divot.
You don't need to define a divot. You can move your ball once per 18 holes in the fairway. It can be due to a divot, a bump, goose poop, hardpan, whatever.
Yea, that makes a lot of sense.
I wish people would stop going on about the divot thing. Is it annoying? Yes. Is it maybe unfair sometimes? Maybe yes. BUT it’s impossible to fix. You simply cannot do it. There is no way you can have a rule which says you can move a ball out of a divot. Why? Two words…. Patrick Reed. There’s no definition of what is and isn’t a divot and cheaters will always try to use that to their advantage. It’s just part of golf, it can’t be changed.
Bang on. I also think the frequency of the 'issue' is overstated. Maybe I'm lucky, but I end up hitting out of a divot a very small percentage of the times I hit the fairway. How often are folk here actually having this problem...? Every 5 rounds? Every 10? If it's more frequent then how many divots are there in these fairways!
“Patrick Reed” Well played sir
allow moving the ball once per 18 holes. Problem solved and Patrick Reed is unaffected.
OB/lost ball rule. Punishes amateur golfers disproportionately. Should just be 1 strike penalty and drop
I always say this too. I don’t have 100 spectators watching where my ball landed for me
Lobby for your courses to cut the rough. Makes no sense people need a gallery to find their ball.
thats a large labor increase tho. mowing several times a week vs just one. gonna raise the greens fees to do what you want. and you're gonna hear more mowers while you play, if you care about that.
Posted right after Bryson’s drive on 1 landed in a divot?
Trying to figure out what counts as a big enough divot for relief would be an even dumber rule. Hit out of the divot and move on. Quick and easy. Or just fluff your lie like you already do anytime you catch a bad one.
doesnt matter what counts or doesnt. bump it 6". if lie is perfect thant 6" wont make it more perfect. but go ahead and do it if you want. also gives you relief from goose (and other) actual shit in the fairways. (turkey, dog, coyote ect)
Every time this comes up I suggest that you are allowed to move your ball 6 inches in the fairway once per 18 holes. Gets rid of the rally crappy bad luck divot. No need to define a divot.
Anything that wouldn't otherwise realistically affect your score or outcome of a shot but for the fact that it is a penalty. Accidentally teeing up an inch ahead of the markers, accidentally making the ball move after address but before taking your swing, not marking the spot before lifting it to clean it on the green or lifting a ball elsewhere to identify it, etc. I agree with the "drop out of a divot" thing mentioned by OP. That should be GUR, free drop within a foot or something. I have some frustration with how there is no provision for free relief from an area that really should be marked as GUR but isn't. Most typical public courses, especially at the lower end of the price spectrum, have lots of these areas but they are seldomly marked as GUR because management either doesn't want to bother or figures players will just take free drops anyway. If any of these areas exist on a course being played for a pro tournament, high level amateur event, or even some club's member-guest, they would be well marked as GUR by paint or ropes and you'd get a free drop. So some guy playing at Bushwood CC gets a free GUR drop off a patch of fairway hardpan, but Joe Sixpack at the muni technically has to play it as it lies or take an unplayable lie penalty. Doesn't seem fair.
Divot rule is good, in my opinion. I think all stakes should be red.
Make all the stakes white. If you hit into something classified as a hazard you shouldn't be able to hit out of it.
The problem is not balls in divots- the problem is people not filling or fixing them. This could stop being posted on this sub every 45 minutes if people would just replace/fill their divots.
If I had to pick one, yes the divot in the fairway rule (or lack thereof).
if you wiff a tee shot its a stroke, but if you hit your tee ball so incredibly bad that it never even leaves the teeing ground, its a free re-tee. no penalty.
Royal and Ancients 25.3 Use of an artificial arm or leg is not a breach of Rule 4.3 provided the player has a medical reason to use it and the Committee decides that its use does not give the player any unfair advantage over other players (see Rule 4.3b ). Players in doubt about the use of a device should raise the matter as soon as possible with the Committee. A player using a prosthetic device is still subject to the prohibitions in Rule 4.3a against using equipment in an abnormal way. I want to use an artificial leg to hit my ball. This is a dumb rule
Well, that’s a new one!
Are you an amputee? I ask cause it's gonna make a difference in the advice.
Personally I think balls that are stuck beneath the bunker lip, that's virtually unplayable, are treated stupidly. Yes I can take an unplayable and drop it back in the bunker, but that's just daft. Literally a construction that stops me hitting in a hazard that already penalizes me.
only you're not correct about that ruling. you don't drop in the bunker. its almost like you're taking relief as proposed by OP from being in a divot, only they call it something else to complicate stuff and make golf as silly a game as possible. (embedded) [https://youtu.be/ReEjKSyQbaU?si=Lx5sQQRC-tfw9YCK](https://youtu.be/ReEjKSyQbaU?si=Lx5sQQRC-tfw9YCK)
Sorry I don't understand. Can you explain? The rules say : "The player may take unplayable ball relief for one penalty stroke under any of the options in Rule 19.2, except that: The ball must be dropped in and come to rest in the bunker if the player takes either back-on-the-line relief (see Rule 19.2b) or lateral relief (see Rule 19.2c)." What do you mean you don't drop it in the bunker?
Dumbest rule in golf? Ryder cup captain can hit his ball off the tee on a practice swing and replace it without penalty, but someone grounds their club on an approach and it moves ever so slightly then they are assessed a 1 stroke penalty without making contact with the actual ball.
Definitely agree with that. I’d like to add the lost ball rule. I get it if you’re close to a penalty area, but if you know for sure you hit a ball in play and can’t find it, you should not be assessed a penalty. The fact that a tour pro’s have designated people to help find their ball tells me I don’t deserve a penalty.
This is why amateur golfers shouldn’t just pick up any ball they “find” that isn’t theirs.
In match play your opponent can cancel a stroke if you play out of turn
Playing in turn in match play is extremely important
Then all shots played out of turn should be cancelled, it shouldn’t be a choice.
If your ball ends up next to the hole, and falls in after 10 seconds, you have to take a penalty. WTF???