They died because the CEO wouldn’t listen to the experts telling him his vessel wasn’t safe. He cut corners to make more money and ended up killing himself and four other people. Greed killed them.
> Rush's experience and research led him to two basic conclusions: one, that submersibles had an unwarranted reputation as dangerous vehicles due to their use in ferrying commercial divers, and two, the Passenger Vessel Safety Act of 1993[7] "**needlessly prioritized passenger safety over commercial innovation**".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OceanGate
More stuff?
> Journalist David Pogue, who rode in Titan to view the Titanic in 2022, noted that Titan was **not equipped** with an **emergency locator beacon**; during his expedition, the surface support vessel **lost track of the Titan "for about five hours**, and adding such a beacon was discussed. They could still send short texts to the sub, but did not know where it was. It was quiet and very tense, and they shut off the ship's internet to keep us from tweeting."
Honestly, that dude was insane. And I'm somewhat mad that he was even allowed to take passengers to the depths in that vehicle.
It sounds like something similar happened after the surface support ship lost contact with the Titan on Sunday. The Titan stopped responding to messages about an hour and forty-five minutes into their journey but the surface ship didn’t call for search and rescue assistance until 9 hours later. They waited until the submersible was overdue for its return. It sounds like unlike properly organised expeditions, their safety protocol prioritised almost everything else above safety…
From what I read about this from others (and it could be wrong) was that it was common for them to lose contact during all of their prior trips because of their cheap decisions and cutting corners so they didn’t get concerned until it never returned.
In no way is this condoning their non-reporting/non-action but to actually expect losing contact is insane.
Yeah that’s the way I interpreted the various reports too. Safe protocol should be to notify search and rescue after I think 3 missed communication check-ins. Obviously in this case that wouldn’t have made a difference, but the idea that they so frequently lost communication with a submersible going that deep that didn’t have any safety pingers or beacons to help locate it in those instances is just…mind boggling. I’m honestly surprised they got away with it without anyone else dying for as long as they did. It’s bonkers. Rush thought safety measures that are in place after decades of experience of just this type of disaster were just bureaucratic red tape holding back his genius innovation. It’s…it’s surprising nobody was hurt or killed before this honestly.
Yeah, you are right that this was a common occurrence. I don't know what channel they used to communicate but they communicated via text messages.
But the real spicy part is that the sub didn't have any navigation tools on them. They relied on the text messages from the support vessel to navigate. So the moment they lose contact they are completely blind.
That's the problem with regulations! If we didn't have so many of them limiting our right to profit, things like this would be normal and nobody would be batting an eye! 🙄
And this shows why corporations are so gung-ho about deregulation, but also proves why we need regulations in the first place.
Every regulation on the books happened because of a tragedy.
So at this point what are we assuming happened to Rush? I'm thinking when everyone else aboard began angrily asking him what the fuck went wrong and he tried to deflect they murdered him when it became clear he had killed them all.
The leading believe at the moment is that the hull had a break and the sub got crushed. Which happened faster than the nerves even register so my believe (or willful delusion) is that they died without knowing what was happening.
That is certainly the most merciful option. Kinda strikes me like that bit in Better Call Saul after Chuck dies. Kim walks up to Jimmy and tells him the firefighters said he died peacefully in his sleep of smoke inhalation rather than burning to death and he's like "Yeah well they're gonna say that aren't they".
The Navy heard the implosion; they didn't know what it was at the time because the company didn't report anything until 8+ hours after the launch. At that point, they could have been wrong/might have revealed too much about their listening capabilities, but if the thing was imploded, it's not like anyone would have been able to save them anyway.
Based on the debris they found and the fact that an implosion sound was captured by the US Navy, the sub had a catastrophic implosion of the passenger compartment. He and the all the other people would've been crushed and then incinerated in a few milliseconds by all the energy released by the implosion. There wouldn't even be any corpses to recover.
There probably wasn't any advance warning either, outside all the numerous ones he got on the surface from people who knew the risks.
If he never went on that vessel, and therfore didn't die, he'd have paid a PR firm to scrub that and any other similar statements and interviews from the internet. And the media would be twiddling their thumbs, pretending it wasn't the billionaire CEOs fault that people died (and probably scapegoat the pilot).
And I really have to wonder at which point the cutting corners would have saved him money vs. just charging **insanely rich people** more to offset the added costs.
"Oh, this deep sea voyage is 350k instead of 250k? Guess I can't afford that third beach house for a couple more years."
Well, the pressure didn't let up.
But can you imagine that? Provided there were no early warning signs of impending implosion, you'd have no idea you were about to die. One second, excitement! The next, nothing. the entire thing took less than a twentieth of a second. So fast that your brain can't even begin to comprehend what's happening. You'd be dead before the sound of the implosion stopped.
I'd say it's an awful way to go, but really, death was instantaneous. Still awful. And still stupid.
You *VASTLY* underestimate how rich a billionaire is. 100K to him is like you buying a soda can from a dispenser. It wouldn't impact his hundreth beach house in any shape or form.
100K was literally 0.007% of that man's net worth.
I once heard that for billionaires, buying an Aventador, a car in the $500k range depending on version and options, is like buying a $20 tee for us wage slaves.
For more math on that the average person earns about $1.7million over the course of their life. Lets say both the billionaire and wage worker are halfway through their life, and the billionaire is only just at that mark with exactly $1 billion.
The wage worker has made a total of $850k over their life at this point. A $500k purchase to the billionaire is .0005% of their net worth. For the wage worker .0005% of their total earnings over their lifetime so far is $425.
That means that the cost of the half million dollar car to them is less to their current money than the cost of a current generation game system to most people for the amount that they have earned over their entire life to that point.
This doesn't even take into account the fact that the billionaires money is simply making money for them and they do not have to do any work to make that happen at that point.
The problem is this isn't how greed works. If they could have charged $350k, The CEO would have said to himself, wow I could have another $100k per person for myself!
To them, "woke" means someone who isn't WASPy did a thing.
AFAIK, the guy who owned the sub was aware that it wasn't rated for the depths he was using it at, and chose to do it anyways. Hiring the white guy wouldn't have changed a thing because it was CEO greed and recklessness that got him and the passengers killed.
Let that sink in.
The sub James Cameron used to go to the bottom of the Mariana Trench cost 10M almost 15 years ago, before modifications. That's without the personnel and support boats for the whole expedition. We don't have an exact figure but it probably cost the studios (because they were paying since Cameron directed Titanic) at least 20M+ for the whole ordeal. That's on the bottom end.
How can you see that and in 2023 pay 250k to a for profit corporation that has 4 spots for 1 to 2 trips a year.
Math doesn't check out.
I don’t think this was money driven. Dude was worth billions so a few customers spending 250k ain’t doing shit for him. This was a result of being too impatient and arrogant.
Yea but these people gargle the balls of billionaires as they ~~bribe~~ lobby to make everyone's lives worse for their own fiscal gain. They lick the spray tan off their lips then declare everyone else does the same thing as they carelessly brandish an assault rifle.
Safety ratings for things that don’t support human life are usually around 2x-3x. So if you need support for a building you calculate how much stress it will endure in theory and multiply it by 2 times and design it around that.
For aeronautics and aerospace they do less then 2x but are do a lot of calculations and material testing to make sure it’s accurate. In a field where weight decides if it can fly then it’s important to lose as much weight as possible.
But a sub that not only doesn’t have safety rating but the materials are known to be less then adequate is just stupid. Just the fact that there are very few subs capable of going that depth should have been a sign and the CEO ignores all warnings and went with it anyways. I feel no sympathy for the CEO who dies and I feel bad for the innocent people who were unlucky enough to have trusted him with their lives.
Aka, they died because of a lack of regulation around the construction of subs. Or, the type of policy that the Republicans very proudly support. DeReg go Dead.
It sounds like he tried to use racism to excuse "we're hiring inexperienced kids because they're cheaper" because he thought hating on white people would be more popular than being cheap.
Dude fired a guy who had concerns about using carbon fiber hulls.
Dude also sued another guy who filed a whistleblower complaint.
He wasn't going to hire a 50 year old professional submarine expert (likely with military experience), because they would have more safety concerns and be more likely to push for certifications that prove the sub could to dive to depth.
He'd rather hire someone and "train them" because he was doing the entire core business incorrectly, and couldn't have someone with training come in, then filing additional whistleblower complaints.
A 50 year old who knows how to command a submarine?
Using quick logic… that is most likely a high ranking ex-military dude… those kind of people cost a lot of money .. specialized work!
That’s exactly what Rush said in his statement. They’re almost all ex-military. He used the excuse that men like that aren’t inspirational to young people but really it was very clearly entirely about saving money. His entire venture was to make money. He was using billionaire “adventurers” as guinea pigs so he could prove his unsafe homemade submersible was actually safe and sell it to oil companies and become a billionaire himself. The entire enterprise was founded on greed.
Yeah, it’s actually the most capitalist thing ever. He didn’t want to follow safety regulations and wanted young labor who didn’t know better, who he could take advantage of, much like for one example, the tech industry. Hiring 24 year old white men vs. 50 year old is not “woke” but it seems some people thought they could capitalize on this disaster to score political points against their favorite adversaries.
It’s honestly so absurd to me that people look at this incident through the lens of politics. At no point watching this saga unfold did I think to myself, “I wonder what the captain’s political opinions were”
I mean, his political leanings were what got him killed. Libertarian means anti-regulation, which means anti-*safety*-regulations, which leads to a guy visiting the Titanic in an unsafe vehicle.
Politics are personal. It’s not like we’re talking about his opinions on the new comptroller.
Aside from libitarian leanings.
But in the dipshit way where he puts himself on the frontline of his slashed regulations, rather than hiding behind an army of expendable goons.
It's kind of like racism, the real masterminds know it's bullshit, but keeps people distracted and willing to fight against their best interests for the promise of power.
They've been conditioned almost literally since birth to defend capitalism, the root cause of the implosion, so they cannot believe capitalism is the culprit. It must be this "woke" everybody's blaming for everything. Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket.
Much like communist and socialist, the word woke has very little real meaning when being used by conservatives. It's just another one of those words they use to make things look bad while wanting to put as little effort into the claim as possible.
Exactly this point. Also very libertarian/conservative in the sense that the CEO thought regulations stunted devolvement and invention. And also meant that he wanted to cut costs because regulation meant that his cheap submarine wasn't going to pass any test.
I bet it was more like “Mr boss man, safety director and ceo. I notice a safety concern when installing the observation window is only rated for a quarter the pressure it will experience. how do i correct the issue?”
Boss’s face turned red and with intensity he answered “ Rated? Who do think does this rating magic?? A fucking engineer, You know the guys who go to school to study math and science? The same people who perched lockdowns and double masks and 2 weeks to stop the curve! You will trust that shit??? They make thousands of these windows everyday. If mean millions in use and have you or your family been hurt??
That was an open lie to cover up the fact they were firing "50 year old white guys" who brought up safety concerns. Saying they were looking for diversity was code for hiring someone less qualified and for less pay.
I would hate to be the engineer that DID get hired, and you designed this death trap personally.
That would suck. I would just quit at that point. Work at a book store or something.
["People with experience told us our vessel was unsafe, and we fired them."](https://www.al.com/news/2023/06/titanic-tourist-sub-engineer-fired-for-raising-concerns-why-were-warnings-ignored.html)
>“This was problematic because this type of acoustic analysis would only show when a component is about to fail — **often milliseconds before an implosion — and would not detect any existing flaws prior to putting pressure onto the hull,”** Lochridge’s counterclaim said.
It's worth mentioning this was all BEFORE we knew what happened. And he was there, being fired for telling them the vessel could/would implode, and telling reporters about him being sued for saying it. And he was right.
>Further, the craft was designed to reach depths of 4,000 meters (13,123 feet), where the Titanic rested. But, according to Lochridge, the passenger viewport was only certified for depths of up to 1,300 meters (4,265 feet), and OceanGate would not pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport certified for 4,000 meters.
Fuck OceanGate. They're criminally negligent.
No the CEO literally said “last thing we want is a company run by a bunch of 50y old white men” and “we want to inspire a younger generation” - so they instead hired passionate employees who they would train up. It was those “old white men” who did say “dude, this is nuts” - specifically the Marine Technology Society. But yeah.. they cut so many corners I’m 100% not surprised they died. That thing was a death trap, he used “off the shelf” components, many of which were not rated for those depths, exposure to salt water, or suitable for sub aquatic environments. I don’t know about you but if I had a choice between a blower designed for sub 3000 meter depths or a Costco blower… and my plan was to go to the titanic… I’m confident that one of those is not the right one to purchase.
You gotta watch the Oceans Gate videos floating around. He’s insane.
Also, isn’t his Board of Directors comprised entirely of middle aged white guys? I saw that a couple days ago, but it’s hard to keep up with what’s legit.
To sue they'd have to apply for the job and be denied based on their age. No one with that experience was going to touch this thing with a 20 foot pole
Not only is "let that sink in" the most infuriating phrase that most dumb posts have in common, but using it in the context of a submarine accident... Bro.
I don't even think it's used on purpose to be "clever". They wouldn't know clever if it bit them in the arse.
I hate it so much. It comes from such a smug, deluded place most of the time. And at the same time, it's such a self-report: "it took me a little while to grasp this, so I assume you won't immediately get it either".
It's also a self report in another way: they took *pleanty* of time pondering it, letting it "sink in" y'know, and *still* came out with their ignorant-ass opinion.
Understandably so...He was retweeted by trump in 2016 and it propelled his account up, his instant bot replies, auto tweets and just utter bullshit kept his interactions up, then he was busted buying followers and secondary accounts, and along with some other right wing cockheads, like brenden dilley, he was banned.. he chose to keep buying dodgy old accounts, but he could never resist using his own name somehow, so kept getting banned... My guess is his original account on twitter was reinstated when Elon took over and this is the result...Lets just say he was never good at any of it ... We chased him a lot, it was good fun
[https://i.imgur.com/6cBvlEE.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6cBvlEE.jpg)
[https://i.imgur.com/ymea0gn.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ymea0gn.jpg)
nasa engineers and engineers from Mercedes-AMG PETRONAS warned him. CFTF, Hexcel, Zoltek, nippon all warned him even went so far as to demonstrate implosion failure for his design. Ignored.
The more I read about the CEO the more I think this same thing. The total disregard for regulation and the opinions of literally anyone who has more than a books worth of education
I saw someone refer to the sub as the “libertarian idiotmobile.” He lived his little Ayn Rand fantasy until, you know, he was pulverized to atoms by his own hubris.
Is it just me, or do conservatives flip out every time someone gets a good job and isn't a white male?
Do they want all well paying jobs to be a white only club?
The same people get mad when the doctor they get isn't named Whitey Christianson.
To be fair, CEO was an idiot for disregarding the advice of subject matter experts.
For various reasons, the world's subject matter experts in this area are '50+ year old white guys'. Being woke doesn't change that. the people who have actual experience in this area, who are knowledgeable in hyperbaric environments and who understand submarines are almost exclusively ex-military, ex-medicine, or ex-aerospace.
The safety concerns were outlined to him by a list of said 50 year old white guys.
He went ahead and hired a team of 25 year-olds who he knew would be reluctant to question any of his decisions due to him being... a rich old white guy.
To be honest, from what it looks like, he may actually have tried working with subject matter experts initially, but got upset that every time he had a 'revolutionary idea' they told him it wouldn't work.
Plan B was 'hire a bunch of recent graduates' and 'hope they don't question his grand plan too much'
When I started learning to cave dive, I remember having a bunch of amateur level questions that we asked my instructor - who took great pains to help us resolve questions that came from a position of ignorance.
He pointed out that in a cave team, if even the most inexperienced, unqualified member of the group points out an issue, a hole in the plan, or whatever, they were to be taken seriously, and answered fully at all times.
This CEO had global level certification agencies telling him that it was possible that he didn't know what he was doing, and he brushed them off, ran an unlicensed sub, and killed himself and 4 customers due to believing that inclusive hiring practices could replace decades of experience in hyperbaric safety.
Yep, this is the even shittier part of this bullshit, they are just trying to 'meme' that it was 'non-white people who designed and built the sub, when it was in fact.. white people who designed and built the sub.
Yeah, it's not 'woke' to hire people you can manipulate and exploit.
Bet this guy would go to a factory with child labourers and declair it 'woke' for not hiring 50 year olds instead.
Yeah my first thought was that he didn't hire the 50 year old with experience because then he'd have to pay them what a 50 year old with experience would require being paid and everyone in the room will know they know more than he does. A 25 year old recent grad is going to ask for *way* less money and be way more afraid to say no to him.
>believing that inclusive hiring practices could replace decades of experience in hyperbaric safety.
Was his team all Indian and Chinese kids? Where are people getting this idea that he prioritized diversity? Dude sounds like he would've hired the Proud Boys if they could build a sub and told him what he wanted to hear. Lmao folks are making it sound like he had the cast of Captain Planet as his team lol
There was nothing to do with "inclusive" hiring practices. He hired yes-men, younger guys who would do what he told them. Everyone in this picture was white.
If you watch the interview, he basically said at some point risk mitigation exceeds mans desire to experience shit. Like, you could get hit by a bus and die tomorrow, why not live a little.
Almost always you have to be standing in the street to get hit by a bus. That sounds like a cop out for someone who doesn’t want to spend the money to do it right. It’s one thing to endanger yourself and it’s another to purposefully risk others who are trusting you. Waiver or no waiver.
Yea, it was totally not a throw away line that was used to justify hiring people who wouldn't question dangerous designs this idiot wanted to use.
This guy truly was just so committed to wokeness that he *checks notes* didn't hire old white men instead only hiring young white men...
“So you agree you shouldn’t trust potentially dangerous matters to inexperienced upstarts who Do Their Own Research but rather seek out the experience and expertise of those with a body of peer reviewed work in their field?”
Let’s be clear, the reason he hired young college kids is because he was cheap and didn’t want to pay a proper wage for experts in their field. The CEO was not woke, he was cheap.
They have the rich's boots so far down their throats they rather focus on their woke brigading rather than actually criticize a dumbass rich person for making the world's most predictable death trap.
The repubs have been removing or blocking common sense regulation for decades.
We have the records.
To the red party. Please stop pandering to the folks who can’t read.
We need to ban together and protect the dumb folks, they are literally killing themselves and bringing us along for the ride.
It's an excessively weird feeling looking at something and thinking it's a ridiculous stretch and grasping at straws to try and make your point. Then have your immediate next thought be the amount of people who will agree/believe him.
Only knowing racism and capitalism while growing up makes them blind to the fact that most CEOs would rather hire a toddler for coins an hour than hire someone who has years of experience for the right price.
The ceo died because he was cool with being in a submarine that was *at best* tested to a fraction of the planned depth. They did the dive like forty times problem(ish) free(it never did well just didn’t kill the occupants), but they weren’t testing the hull between trips. It was the equivalent of pushing the button on a bear trap with your fucking forehead and being shocked when you’re lookin at your own feet. He was an idiot that took four others with him. The whole company was, and the dives should never have been allowed. It was like a dude taking a ski boat into a hurricane, one time failure isn’t guaranteed but eventually it’s gonna fail. If they’d hired experienced operators they’d have said fuck no, regardless of their heritage. It’s not woke, it’s stupid. Stupid doesn’t have a political affiliation. They hired inexperience because only inexperienced people would continue.
He didn’t hire experienced people because they would walk away once the saw they death trap. 5000+ psi doesn’t care about how cleverly you “broke” the rules you either build it to those specs or you become meat paste in a carbon fiber tube. You also have to do rigorous inspection procedures before and after every dive to see where stresses are accumulating etc. The guy was running on the tech bro mantra of “move fast and break things” and that’s a silly risk to take at the bottom of the ocean.
When in reality it is a matter of small government, lack of regulations, and lack of oversight. Everything the Republicans want... almost like that is an incredibly stupid idea.
This is so frustrating. He didn’t want to hire “50yo white guys” with submarine/submersible piloting experience because he didn’t want to pay them the wage their experience would require. He opted to hire inexperienced young people and train them because he could pay them far far less. His excuse was that the experts he didn’t want to hire weren’t “inspirational” but it was all about the money.
"The wealthy capitalist CEO cut corners and didn't listen to safety recommendations from scientific experts in search of higher profits off his $250k/pp dive. This led to the implosion of the vessel, the deaths of his 4 customers, and the remains dropping to the bottom of the ocean floor.
That's next level Trickle Down Economics."
There, I fixed it.
This is funny, because I would find this to be a perfect example of why libertarianism doesn’t work. Hubris is a bitch, and regulations are written in blood.
The pilot of the sub was a 62 year old white man. The “woke” CEO was the pilot.
Does he think the sub imploded because the guy made too sharp of a turn? It was a design flaw.
Talk about a ridiculous take.
My understanding is that he hired the people he did because he was trying to be a cheap motherfucker, not because he was advancing some liberal social agenda.
Always has been. Add it to the pile of "Communist," "Socialist," "Liberal," "Leftist," and "Democratic" that have absolutely no definition for them other than a way to describe something they don't like.
Yea, this guy asked if chickfila was going to be adding *that* to their frosted lemonade after they hired a diversity manager or something, but its not the only tweet he's made about *it*
I don't think I'm allowed to link to things here tho
They died because the CEO wouldn’t listen to the experts telling him his vessel wasn’t safe. He cut corners to make more money and ended up killing himself and four other people. Greed killed them.
> Rush's experience and research led him to two basic conclusions: one, that submersibles had an unwarranted reputation as dangerous vehicles due to their use in ferrying commercial divers, and two, the Passenger Vessel Safety Act of 1993[7] "**needlessly prioritized passenger safety over commercial innovation**". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OceanGate More stuff? > Journalist David Pogue, who rode in Titan to view the Titanic in 2022, noted that Titan was **not equipped** with an **emergency locator beacon**; during his expedition, the surface support vessel **lost track of the Titan "for about five hours**, and adding such a beacon was discussed. They could still send short texts to the sub, but did not know where it was. It was quiet and very tense, and they shut off the ship's internet to keep us from tweeting." Honestly, that dude was insane. And I'm somewhat mad that he was even allowed to take passengers to the depths in that vehicle.
They shut off the internet to hide problems that seemed like they could have killed the reporter? Awesome. Awesome plan guys.
It sounds like something similar happened after the surface support ship lost contact with the Titan on Sunday. The Titan stopped responding to messages about an hour and forty-five minutes into their journey but the surface ship didn’t call for search and rescue assistance until 9 hours later. They waited until the submersible was overdue for its return. It sounds like unlike properly organised expeditions, their safety protocol prioritised almost everything else above safety…
From what I read about this from others (and it could be wrong) was that it was common for them to lose contact during all of their prior trips because of their cheap decisions and cutting corners so they didn’t get concerned until it never returned. In no way is this condoning their non-reporting/non-action but to actually expect losing contact is insane.
Yeah that’s the way I interpreted the various reports too. Safe protocol should be to notify search and rescue after I think 3 missed communication check-ins. Obviously in this case that wouldn’t have made a difference, but the idea that they so frequently lost communication with a submersible going that deep that didn’t have any safety pingers or beacons to help locate it in those instances is just…mind boggling. I’m honestly surprised they got away with it without anyone else dying for as long as they did. It’s bonkers. Rush thought safety measures that are in place after decades of experience of just this type of disaster were just bureaucratic red tape holding back his genius innovation. It’s…it’s surprising nobody was hurt or killed before this honestly.
Yeah, you are right that this was a common occurrence. I don't know what channel they used to communicate but they communicated via text messages. But the real spicy part is that the sub didn't have any navigation tools on them. They relied on the text messages from the support vessel to navigate. So the moment they lose contact they are completely blind.
That's the problem with regulations! If we didn't have so many of them limiting our right to profit, things like this would be normal and nobody would be batting an eye! 🙄
And this shows why corporations are so gung-ho about deregulation, but also proves why we need regulations in the first place. Every regulation on the books happened because of a tragedy.
Republicans hate regulations for the same reasons that criminals hate the police.
Sounds like arrogance killed them, not wokeness.
So at this point what are we assuming happened to Rush? I'm thinking when everyone else aboard began angrily asking him what the fuck went wrong and he tried to deflect they murdered him when it became clear he had killed them all.
The leading believe at the moment is that the hull had a break and the sub got crushed. Which happened faster than the nerves even register so my believe (or willful delusion) is that they died without knowing what was happening.
That is certainly the most merciful option. Kinda strikes me like that bit in Better Call Saul after Chuck dies. Kim walks up to Jimmy and tells him the firefighters said he died peacefully in his sleep of smoke inhalation rather than burning to death and he's like "Yeah well they're gonna say that aren't they".
The Navy heard the implosion; they didn't know what it was at the time because the company didn't report anything until 8+ hours after the launch. At that point, they could have been wrong/might have revealed too much about their listening capabilities, but if the thing was imploded, it's not like anyone would have been able to save them anyway.
Based on the debris they found and the fact that an implosion sound was captured by the US Navy, the sub had a catastrophic implosion of the passenger compartment. He and the all the other people would've been crushed and then incinerated in a few milliseconds by all the energy released by the implosion. There wouldn't even be any corpses to recover. There probably wasn't any advance warning either, outside all the numerous ones he got on the surface from people who knew the risks.
If he never went on that vessel, and therfore didn't die, he'd have paid a PR firm to scrub that and any other similar statements and interviews from the internet. And the media would be twiddling their thumbs, pretending it wasn't the billionaire CEOs fault that people died (and probably scapegoat the pilot).
And I really have to wonder at which point the cutting corners would have saved him money vs. just charging **insanely rich people** more to offset the added costs. "Oh, this deep sea voyage is 350k instead of 250k? Guess I can't afford that third beach house for a couple more years."
[удалено]
[удалено]
He crushed it
It was admittedly a lot of pressure
Only 30 milliseconds worth.
Well, the pressure didn't let up. But can you imagine that? Provided there were no early warning signs of impending implosion, you'd have no idea you were about to die. One second, excitement! The next, nothing. the entire thing took less than a twentieth of a second. So fast that your brain can't even begin to comprehend what's happening. You'd be dead before the sound of the implosion stopped. I'd say it's an awful way to go, but really, death was instantaneous. Still awful. And still stupid.
He went down to observe history, and became it.
A true, modern day John Galt. Ayn Rand's undead panties just moistened in her grave.
Well, it’s 8:53 am EDT and that’s enough Reddit for today.
Wait...she's undead, so she left her panties in her grave? 😱
No no no you misunderstand, just the panties are undead
Ahhh of course! Thank you! 🧐
About 10 years ago Rand was somewhat popular on Reddit. I'm glad it's become a meme how nasty some of her writing is.
Plus the added layer of irony that he was diving to see the titanic: a famous symbol of the hubris of man. The unsinkable ship.
On a boat named Titan, no less.
It's too bad he went to the grave not getting to sit with the proof of just how wrong he was.
You *VASTLY* underestimate how rich a billionaire is. 100K to him is like you buying a soda can from a dispenser. It wouldn't impact his hundreth beach house in any shape or form. 100K was literally 0.007% of that man's net worth.
I once heard that for billionaires, buying an Aventador, a car in the $500k range depending on version and options, is like buying a $20 tee for us wage slaves.
Elon Musk could lose 99.999% of his wealth and still have more money than most people would ever earn in their lifetime.
For more math on that the average person earns about $1.7million over the course of their life. Lets say both the billionaire and wage worker are halfway through their life, and the billionaire is only just at that mark with exactly $1 billion. The wage worker has made a total of $850k over their life at this point. A $500k purchase to the billionaire is .0005% of their net worth. For the wage worker .0005% of their total earnings over their lifetime so far is $425. That means that the cost of the half million dollar car to them is less to their current money than the cost of a current generation game system to most people for the amount that they have earned over their entire life to that point. This doesn't even take into account the fact that the billionaires money is simply making money for them and they do not have to do any work to make that happen at that point.
Couple more *days* FTFY
The problem is this isn't how greed works. If they could have charged $350k, The CEO would have said to himself, wow I could have another $100k per person for myself!
My brother in Christ, these people don't know what "woke" even means anymore...it's like a verbal tic.
It really does illustrate that point. It means "anything that I think is bad".
To them, "woke" means someone who isn't WASPy did a thing. AFAIK, the guy who owned the sub was aware that it wasn't rated for the depths he was using it at, and chose to do it anyways. Hiring the white guy wouldn't have changed a thing because it was CEO greed and recklessness that got him and the passengers killed. Let that sink in.
> Greed killed them. Go chode, implode
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The sub James Cameron used to go to the bottom of the Mariana Trench cost 10M almost 15 years ago, before modifications. That's without the personnel and support boats for the whole expedition. We don't have an exact figure but it probably cost the studios (because they were paying since Cameron directed Titanic) at least 20M+ for the whole ordeal. That's on the bottom end. How can you see that and in 2023 pay 250k to a for profit corporation that has 4 spots for 1 to 2 trips a year. Math doesn't check out.
Lesssgo capitalism!!!
I don’t think this was money driven. Dude was worth billions so a few customers spending 250k ain’t doing shit for him. This was a result of being too impatient and arrogant.
The invisible hand of the free market crushed him.
Yea but these people gargle the balls of billionaires as they ~~bribe~~ lobby to make everyone's lives worse for their own fiscal gain. They lick the spray tan off their lips then declare everyone else does the same thing as they carelessly brandish an assault rifle.
Safety ratings for things that don’t support human life are usually around 2x-3x. So if you need support for a building you calculate how much stress it will endure in theory and multiply it by 2 times and design it around that. For aeronautics and aerospace they do less then 2x but are do a lot of calculations and material testing to make sure it’s accurate. In a field where weight decides if it can fly then it’s important to lose as much weight as possible. But a sub that not only doesn’t have safety rating but the materials are known to be less then adequate is just stupid. Just the fact that there are very few subs capable of going that depth should have been a sign and the CEO ignores all warnings and went with it anyways. I feel no sympathy for the CEO who dies and I feel bad for the innocent people who were unlucky enough to have trusted him with their lives.
Aka, they died because of a lack of regulation around the construction of subs. Or, the type of policy that the Republicans very proudly support. DeReg go Dead.
“We won’t hire 50 year olds” sounds like “people with experience in the field refused to work on our death trap”
Either that or "we refuse to pay what 50 year olds with experience are willing to work for"
They also want to validate their racism/sexism/ageism
It sounds like he tried to use racism to excuse "we're hiring inexperienced kids because they're cheaper" because he thought hating on white people would be more popular than being cheap.
Or the 50 years olds saw it, said it was unsafe but here’s how you fix it, and the CEO didn’t want that kind of accountability around the project.
Dude fired a guy who had concerns about using carbon fiber hulls. Dude also sued another guy who filed a whistleblower complaint. He wasn't going to hire a 50 year old professional submarine expert (likely with military experience), because they would have more safety concerns and be more likely to push for certifications that prove the sub could to dive to depth. He'd rather hire someone and "train them" because he was doing the entire core business incorrectly, and couldn't have someone with training come in, then filing additional whistleblower complaints.
A 50 year old who knows how to command a submarine? Using quick logic… that is most likely a high ranking ex-military dude… those kind of people cost a lot of money .. specialized work!
That’s exactly what Rush said in his statement. They’re almost all ex-military. He used the excuse that men like that aren’t inspirational to young people but really it was very clearly entirely about saving money. His entire venture was to make money. He was using billionaire “adventurers” as guinea pigs so he could prove his unsafe homemade submersible was actually safe and sell it to oil companies and become a billionaire himself. The entire enterprise was founded on greed.
Most enterprises are founded on greed
It has been reported that he wanted young, easily impressionable/manipulated engineers.
Yeah, it’s actually the most capitalist thing ever. He didn’t want to follow safety regulations and wanted young labor who didn’t know better, who he could take advantage of, much like for one example, the tech industry. Hiring 24 year old white men vs. 50 year old is not “woke” but it seems some people thought they could capitalize on this disaster to score political points against their favorite adversaries.
It’s honestly so absurd to me that people look at this incident through the lens of politics. At no point watching this saga unfold did I think to myself, “I wonder what the captain’s political opinions were”
I mean, his political leanings were what got him killed. Libertarian means anti-regulation, which means anti-*safety*-regulations, which leads to a guy visiting the Titanic in an unsafe vehicle. Politics are personal. It’s not like we’re talking about his opinions on the new comptroller.
> It’s not like we’re talking about his opinions on the new comptroller. He did seem to favour Logitech over Microsoft and Sony though
Aside from libitarian leanings. But in the dipshit way where he puts himself on the frontline of his slashed regulations, rather than hiding behind an army of expendable goons.
Earnest libertarians are the funniest/dumbest people! (Google 'toaster license' for more)
It's kind of like racism, the real masterminds know it's bullshit, but keeps people distracted and willing to fight against their best interests for the promise of power.
They've been conditioned almost literally since birth to defend capitalism, the root cause of the implosion, so they cannot believe capitalism is the culprit. It must be this "woke" everybody's blaming for everything. Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket.
Me neither, but that's because it obvious what they were. I couldn't find a better example of capitalist, narcissistic, hubris if i tried.
Much like communist and socialist, the word woke has very little real meaning when being used by conservatives. It's just another one of those words they use to make things look bad while wanting to put as little effort into the claim as possible.
Exactly this point. Also very libertarian/conservative in the sense that the CEO thought regulations stunted devolvement and invention. And also meant that he wanted to cut costs because regulation meant that his cheap submarine wasn't going to pass any test.
When you can perform the mental gymnastics that these people do, *everything* is a chance to score political points
Or, possibly, employees without the experience necessary to recognize a deathtrap when they see one.
I bet it was more like “Mr boss man, safety director and ceo. I notice a safety concern when installing the observation window is only rated for a quarter the pressure it will experience. how do i correct the issue?” Boss’s face turned red and with intensity he answered “ Rated? Who do think does this rating magic?? A fucking engineer, You know the guys who go to school to study math and science? The same people who perched lockdowns and double masks and 2 weeks to stop the curve! You will trust that shit??? They make thousands of these windows everyday. If mean millions in use and have you or your family been hurt??
Well he sure showed us
That was an open lie to cover up the fact they were firing "50 year old white guys" who brought up safety concerns. Saying they were looking for diversity was code for hiring someone less qualified and for less pay.
Less qualified, less pay, but more importantly- who won’t call me out on my cheap, unsafe decisions.
I would hate to be the engineer that DID get hired, and you designed this death trap personally. That would suck. I would just quit at that point. Work at a book store or something.
["People with experience told us our vessel was unsafe, and we fired them."](https://www.al.com/news/2023/06/titanic-tourist-sub-engineer-fired-for-raising-concerns-why-were-warnings-ignored.html) >“This was problematic because this type of acoustic analysis would only show when a component is about to fail — **often milliseconds before an implosion — and would not detect any existing flaws prior to putting pressure onto the hull,”** Lochridge’s counterclaim said. It's worth mentioning this was all BEFORE we knew what happened. And he was there, being fired for telling them the vessel could/would implode, and telling reporters about him being sued for saying it. And he was right. >Further, the craft was designed to reach depths of 4,000 meters (13,123 feet), where the Titanic rested. But, according to Lochridge, the passenger viewport was only certified for depths of up to 1,300 meters (4,265 feet), and OceanGate would not pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport certified for 4,000 meters. Fuck OceanGate. They're criminally negligent.
No the CEO literally said “last thing we want is a company run by a bunch of 50y old white men” and “we want to inspire a younger generation” - so they instead hired passionate employees who they would train up. It was those “old white men” who did say “dude, this is nuts” - specifically the Marine Technology Society. But yeah.. they cut so many corners I’m 100% not surprised they died. That thing was a death trap, he used “off the shelf” components, many of which were not rated for those depths, exposure to salt water, or suitable for sub aquatic environments. I don’t know about you but if I had a choice between a blower designed for sub 3000 meter depths or a Costco blower… and my plan was to go to the titanic… I’m confident that one of those is not the right one to purchase. You gotta watch the Oceans Gate videos floating around. He’s insane.
Also, isn’t his Board of Directors comprised entirely of middle aged white guys? I saw that a couple days ago, but it’s hard to keep up with what’s legit.
Or, we're too cheap to hire actual talent.
Also, it's illegal. Did no one sue?
To sue they'd have to apply for the job and be denied based on their age. No one with that experience was going to touch this thing with a 20 foot pole
That plus you actually gotta pay them money
Or the guy who was fired for raising safety concerns.
Not only is "let that sink in" the most infuriating phrase that most dumb posts have in common, but using it in the context of a submarine accident... Bro. I don't even think it's used on purpose to be "clever". They wouldn't know clever if it bit them in the arse.
I’m starting to hate it as much as “do your research”.
I hate it so much. It comes from such a smug, deluded place most of the time. And at the same time, it's such a self-report: "it took me a little while to grasp this, so I assume you won't immediately get it either".
It's also a self report in another way: they took *pleanty* of time pondering it, letting it "sink in" y'know, and *still* came out with their ignorant-ass opinion.
Read that again.
I read it again. Now what?
Let that sink in
Like to agree, comment Amen to praise the lord.
let that research in do your sink
Do your own research, here’s the 50 YouTube videos I’ve watched that have made me a medical and geopolitical expert.
Nah probably just one tweet.
What about "make it make sense"
And “hear me out.”
That sink can come back with a fucking warrant.
It's purpose is also to move the conversational line past "is this assertion true?" right to "have an emotional reaction about it now"
Also using "let that sink in" before you've actually explained your point is pretty stupid just from a purely rhetorical standpoint.
It was already dead long before Elron carried the sink into Twitter, too. “Fellow kids!”
*I suggest you let that one marinate!
Joey is the dumbest of the dumb. He hasn't changed in many years across many banned twitter accounts
The 41.1K likes has me absolutely baffled
Understandably so...He was retweeted by trump in 2016 and it propelled his account up, his instant bot replies, auto tweets and just utter bullshit kept his interactions up, then he was busted buying followers and secondary accounts, and along with some other right wing cockheads, like brenden dilley, he was banned.. he chose to keep buying dodgy old accounts, but he could never resist using his own name somehow, so kept getting banned... My guess is his original account on twitter was reinstated when Elon took over and this is the result...Lets just say he was never good at any of it ... We chased him a lot, it was good fun [https://i.imgur.com/6cBvlEE.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6cBvlEE.jpg) [https://i.imgur.com/ymea0gn.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ymea0gn.jpg)
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Have a read of Joeys twitter, and you'll see many patterns to his attempts to gain notoriety
Fun fact, author of the rape tweet is Patti Labelles adopted son
Do you really trust Twitter numbers considering who is in charge?
nasa engineers and engineers from Mercedes-AMG PETRONAS warned him. CFTF, Hexcel, Zoltek, nippon all warned him even went so far as to demonstrate implosion failure for his design. Ignored.
He wouldn't hire old pros because they cost money and will tell him he's wrong.
Woke: When something ~~bad~~ happens and I don't like it! /s
No, no, that's not a /s. That's pretty much exactly their thought process
This is actually just libertarianism in a nutshell.
The more I read about the CEO the more I think this same thing. The total disregard for regulation and the opinions of literally anyone who has more than a books worth of education
I saw someone refer to the sub as the “libertarian idiotmobile.” He lived his little Ayn Rand fantasy until, you know, he was pulverized to atoms by his own hubris.
Wokeness is when a billionaire doesn't want to pay someone experienced at a job when he can underpay a desperate young person.
Is it just me, or do conservatives flip out every time someone gets a good job and isn't a white male? Do they want all well paying jobs to be a white only club? The same people get mad when the doctor they get isn't named Whitey Christianson.
Pretty much, in their eyes, "if they're not white, then they're not right"
To be fair, CEO was an idiot for disregarding the advice of subject matter experts. For various reasons, the world's subject matter experts in this area are '50+ year old white guys'. Being woke doesn't change that. the people who have actual experience in this area, who are knowledgeable in hyperbaric environments and who understand submarines are almost exclusively ex-military, ex-medicine, or ex-aerospace. The safety concerns were outlined to him by a list of said 50 year old white guys. He went ahead and hired a team of 25 year-olds who he knew would be reluctant to question any of his decisions due to him being... a rich old white guy. To be honest, from what it looks like, he may actually have tried working with subject matter experts initially, but got upset that every time he had a 'revolutionary idea' they told him it wouldn't work. Plan B was 'hire a bunch of recent graduates' and 'hope they don't question his grand plan too much' When I started learning to cave dive, I remember having a bunch of amateur level questions that we asked my instructor - who took great pains to help us resolve questions that came from a position of ignorance. He pointed out that in a cave team, if even the most inexperienced, unqualified member of the group points out an issue, a hole in the plan, or whatever, they were to be taken seriously, and answered fully at all times. This CEO had global level certification agencies telling him that it was possible that he didn't know what he was doing, and he brushed them off, ran an unlicensed sub, and killed himself and 4 customers due to believing that inclusive hiring practices could replace decades of experience in hyperbaric safety.
A guy he hired brought up issues with the carbon fiber hull and was fired in 2018.
And he openly mocked him in an interview where they got lost for 2.5 hours!
His hiring practices weren't inclusive at all. Instead of having a bunch of over 50 white men, he had a bunch of younger white men.
Yep, this is the even shittier part of this bullshit, they are just trying to 'meme' that it was 'non-white people who designed and built the sub, when it was in fact.. white people who designed and built the sub.
Watching videos of him, he was doing this to prove safety measures and regulations were a waste of money. Felt like a commercial for libertarianism
I dont think inclusive hiring practices had anything to do with him hiring unqualified workers. It was hubris and greed
Yeah, it's not 'woke' to hire people you can manipulate and exploit. Bet this guy would go to a factory with child labourers and declair it 'woke' for not hiring 50 year olds instead.
Yeah my first thought was that he didn't hire the 50 year old with experience because then he'd have to pay them what a 50 year old with experience would require being paid and everyone in the room will know they know more than he does. A 25 year old recent grad is going to ask for *way* less money and be way more afraid to say no to him.
This whole thing smacks of Hank Scorpio
That's an insult to Hank. He had free dental care and three weeks paid vacation.
>believing that inclusive hiring practices could replace decades of experience in hyperbaric safety. Was his team all Indian and Chinese kids? Where are people getting this idea that he prioritized diversity? Dude sounds like he would've hired the Proud Boys if they could build a sub and told him what he wanted to hear. Lmao folks are making it sound like he had the cast of Captain Planet as his team lol
There was nothing to do with "inclusive" hiring practices. He hired yes-men, younger guys who would do what he told them. Everyone in this picture was white.
Didn’t he also literally say that safety was a waste of time
If you watch the interview, he basically said at some point risk mitigation exceeds mans desire to experience shit. Like, you could get hit by a bus and die tomorrow, why not live a little.
Almost always you have to be standing in the street to get hit by a bus. That sounds like a cop out for someone who doesn’t want to spend the money to do it right. It’s one thing to endanger yourself and it’s another to purposefully risk others who are trusting you. Waiver or no waiver.
The subsafe program would have given him a thrashing, as would the families of the crew of the USS Thresher and Scorpion.
Yea, it was totally not a throw away line that was used to justify hiring people who wouldn't question dangerous designs this idiot wanted to use. This guy truly was just so committed to wokeness that he *checks notes* didn't hire old white men instead only hiring young white men...
“So you agree you shouldn’t trust potentially dangerous matters to inexperienced upstarts who Do Their Own Research but rather seek out the experience and expertise of those with a body of peer reviewed work in their field?”
And sadly, many people will believe this twat. I mean tweet.
You were right the first time.
Little Joey sure loved eating those sweet yummy paint chips his mother gave him as a child.
Right wingers have zero idea what woke is and can’t define it
They know. They also know they'll get in trouble if they say out loud why they're anti-woke.
And then they'll whine about "typical liberal talking points" when you point out that it's all dog-whistle politics.
Ha true enough, party of fascists
Let’s be clear, the reason he hired young college kids is because he was cheap and didn’t want to pay a proper wage for experts in their field. The CEO was not woke, he was cheap.
100% plus he didn't want people with experience who might stand up to him.
Here I was thinking it was ignoring safety regulations.
They have the rich's boots so far down their throats they rather focus on their woke brigading rather than actually criticize a dumbass rich person for making the world's most predictable death trap.
The repubs have been removing or blocking common sense regulation for decades. We have the records. To the red party. Please stop pandering to the folks who can’t read. We need to ban together and protect the dumb folks, they are literally killing themselves and bringing us along for the ride.
I dunno, the CEO was the captain of the sub, and he looks pretty old and white to me
Truly, the word "woke" has lost all of its meaning. How the fuck is ignoring experts "woke", if anything, it sounds more right-wing than anything
It's an excessively weird feeling looking at something and thinking it's a ridiculous stretch and grasping at straws to try and make your point. Then have your immediate next thought be the amount of people who will agree/believe him.
Only knowing racism and capitalism while growing up makes them blind to the fact that most CEOs would rather hire a toddler for coins an hour than hire someone who has years of experience for the right price.
I feel like that's not the only reason the sub failed...
“Let that sink in.” Ha. Ha.
The ceo died because he was cool with being in a submarine that was *at best* tested to a fraction of the planned depth. They did the dive like forty times problem(ish) free(it never did well just didn’t kill the occupants), but they weren’t testing the hull between trips. It was the equivalent of pushing the button on a bear trap with your fucking forehead and being shocked when you’re lookin at your own feet. He was an idiot that took four others with him. The whole company was, and the dives should never have been allowed. It was like a dude taking a ski boat into a hurricane, one time failure isn’t guaranteed but eventually it’s gonna fail. If they’d hired experienced operators they’d have said fuck no, regardless of their heritage. It’s not woke, it’s stupid. Stupid doesn’t have a political affiliation. They hired inexperience because only inexperienced people would continue.
ROFL, so it wasnt cutting corners, it wasnt spitting in the face of safety regulations to save money. it was being "woke" ahuh
Texas's power grid is so woke.
He didn’t hire experienced people because they would walk away once the saw they death trap. 5000+ psi doesn’t care about how cleverly you “broke” the rules you either build it to those specs or you become meat paste in a carbon fiber tube. You also have to do rigorous inspection procedures before and after every dive to see where stresses are accumulating etc. The guy was running on the tech bro mantra of “move fast and break things” and that’s a silly risk to take at the bottom of the ocean.
To be fair, he did move fast and he did break things. So mission accomplished, I guess.
This is the dumbest shit I’ve read in a long time.
Wokeness kills billionaires? Where do I sign up?
When in reality it is a matter of small government, lack of regulations, and lack of oversight. Everything the Republicans want... almost like that is an incredibly stupid idea.
This is so frustrating. He didn’t want to hire “50yo white guys” with submarine/submersible piloting experience because he didn’t want to pay them the wage their experience would require. He opted to hire inexperienced young people and train them because he could pay them far far less. His excuse was that the experts he didn’t want to hire weren’t “inspirational” but it was all about the money.
Didn't he fire a guy that called out the company on cutting corners with safety protocols?
"The wealthy capitalist CEO cut corners and didn't listen to safety recommendations from scientific experts in search of higher profits off his $250k/pp dive. This led to the implosion of the vessel, the deaths of his 4 customers, and the remains dropping to the bottom of the ocean floor. That's next level Trickle Down Economics." There, I fixed it.
I was going to say I got the opposite of a woke vibe from this guy.
This is funny, because I would find this to be a perfect example of why libertarianism doesn’t work. Hubris is a bitch, and regulations are written in blood.
Capitalism killed those people. He didn't want to pay people with experience and didn't want red tape to get in the way.
Was way more maga than woke. No experts, fuck the science, fuck the safety certification. Maga af
6,977 retweets. Let THAT sink in.
He hired people he could bend to his will to make this hunk of shit as quick and cheap as possible.
I'm sure the submarine wouldn't have imploded if a white man was sitting inside... Blatant disregard of safety precautions killed these people.
Let that SINK in
The pilot of the sub was a 62 year old white man. The “woke” CEO was the pilot. Does he think the sub imploded because the guy made too sharp of a turn? It was a design flaw. Talk about a ridiculous take.
Is woke in this room right now?
Right now, there are maga Republicans trying to pin that submersible on Hunter Biden's lap top.
Seems pretty right leaning to ignore safety standards and not listen to scientific experts….
Ignoring safety warnings and experts to maximize profits sounds like exactly the sort of thing that people who complain about woke things do.
My understanding is that he hired the people he did because he was trying to be a cheap motherfucker, not because he was advancing some liberal social agenda.
They died because this moron thought too much regulation was hurting his business. Sound familiar?
is wokeness just anything these dumb fucks don't like now?
Always has been. Add it to the pile of "Communist," "Socialist," "Liberal," "Leftist," and "Democratic" that have absolutely no definition for them other than a way to describe something they don't like.
Oh wait isnt this the guy that asked a bunch of establisments if they were adding t\*\*ny semen to their food?
I'm sorry, WHAT?!?!
Yea, this guy asked if chickfila was going to be adding *that* to their frosted lemonade after they hired a diversity manager or something, but its not the only tweet he's made about *it* I don't think I'm allowed to link to things here tho