Awful for the poor women. Just on the first story, that's a Category One Section. They're horrible but it's deemed necessary to get the baby out as quickly as possible to give it and the Mum the best possible chance. So the anaesthetist will be putting the mum to sleep at the same time the catheter is going in, at the same time as the patient is painted and draped.
These would all usually be individual unique steps, but even a proper surgical scrub for the scrub nurse and doctors doing the procedure (washing your hands for the prescribed time and correct method) goes out the window for a true Cat 1. Unfortunately the partner can't be in theatre for a general anaesthetic and the theatre nurse isn't always going to know immediately how baby is because they get taken to SCBU (special care), and the recovery nurse would have been in the same room as her, and yes it probably wasn't a bright room.
Tl;dr. It's a shit show, and the patient and their partner's experience is often terrible.
Exactly this! I've scrubbed in obstetric theatres. The lady is hardly draped and the baby is born with a cat 1 section. It's a horrendous situation to be in but the goal is to save lives with time running out extremely quickly.
You have missed the biggest problem, which is explicit in the article and for that example. The woman was not asked for her consent and nobody explained to her what was happening. That is totally unacceptable and is what made her trauma so much worse.
I didn't miss anything, I stated it was a category one section, which it clearly was, and what can happen generally in a category one section. I haven't commented on what happened to that woman because I wasn't there, don't have access to her notes and can't see what was done or why.
It would make a big difference to hear you're having a cat 1 emmergency c section, we wont be able to drape you properly/get your consent on everything. No debriefing afterward, just left in a dark room with no information on what happened, why it happened and no detailed information on the status of her babies.
Hospitals are massively understaffed, it's unacceptable that there's not enough capacity to inform people of their procedures.
I don't know the ins and outs of her care but it reads like she was getting ready for a section because she mentions her husband, up to that point, was going to be in the theatre. She must have consented then. It reads like she never consented to a catheter. Most of the time there isn't time to even explain properly to a lady about the emergency. This is because things can go wrong within seconds. I've seen ladies brought in to the theatre on a bed with a midwife holding back the umbilical cord. I had a lady on the operating table in her street clothes because she had an antenatal haemorrhage and was brought straight in. I can't even begin to imagine how traumatic this is for women but the ultimate goal is to save lives with emergency surgery.
I'm not trying to criticise at all, what you do is really important, but I think it's also important to acknowledge that this country historically has not established much trust in patients and especially not in labouring mothers. And by "historically" I mean fairly recently.
Symphysiotomy victims weren't told what was going on either, and not just in the moment but for years afterwards, just left with horrific pain and side effects with no idea what had been done to them in the hospital. Even once the facts came to light, the inquiry was incredibly cruel, and the state dragged its feet for so long that many of the victims died before any restitution was made.
And let's not forget Dr Neary who lost the run of himself giving women hysterectomies and oophorectomies they didn't need for *twenty five years* and nobody stopped him because of systemic failures.
This is just the scandals affecting peripartum women, not all the other scandals like the Cervical check and Hepatitis scandals. We have to remember that when you're giving birth and something goes wrong, a history like that is obviously going to make it even more traumatic.
Oh there's definitely failures in the system. Womens health so far behind it's scandalous. The fact endometriosis is "still a mystery" to physicians is madness. I have 4 children myself, luckily I'm in healthcare so I can advocate for myself but no matter what a woman is still very vulnerable when they're pregnant and in labour. Maternity units can be toxic environments. I've known fantastic nurses who went on to do midwifery, got their diplomas and went straight back to nursing because it was such a horrible environment to work in. Short staffed, blame culture mixed with "I was treated like that when I was training so I'll treat you the same" culture.
Literally one sentence could have made her experience easier to deal with "I'm so sorry, we need to do a section ASAP to get baby out as they're not doing well and a general anaesthetic is going to help us do that very quickly"
That's it. That's not a lot to ask for before operating on someone. Takes a few seconds.
I don't think this would have made her happy. She would have consented to this being done. She ultimately had a good outcome in a situation where mortality is prob between 5 and 10%.
I'm not saying happy, none of that situation of joyful. But it would have helped her integrate a terrible experience and help her feel less like she was being assaulted.
And it would take less than thirty seconds to say.
Who would say it? Those 30 seconds when a baby may not be breathing are absolutely of the essence.
Clearly there should have been someone to explain as soon as everyone was calm but this is as big of a birth emergency as it gets
I'd sooner my life and my baby's were saved even if there wasn't time to ask consent. But the basic lack of respect for women is the point of this story. The doctors and nurses don't sound like they're behaving like adults; in non-emergency situations, some formality and respect is a central requirement.
The biggest problem is that the first person who had an emergency section at 32 weeks and twins that needed SCBU has decided to have a private midwife to avoid the HSE. A risky decision.
I think the Journal likes clicks and the headline is obviously designed to drive that, not sure the Journal is noble enough to have an agenda other than getting eyes on its site. The headline "Overwhelming majority of Women satisfied with their maternity care in HSE" isn't going to get the page views.
In my view linking fair and poor as a category was a really bad choice by the HSE when they designed their survey and the overview, "fair" is another work for okay, meh etc. and they have categorised it with "poor" which is clearly not okay.
The women featured had a bad time under the HSE's care and highlighted issues, like people have in the responses here. I've no idea if the issues they raised have been raised with the hospitals they attended but I'd hope they were listened to, it's very sad to think people have such an awful time in HSE care.
I don't believe the HSE (generally, not just maternity services) is in a great place at the moment, there are staff shortages but more importantly skill mix is much worse than how it was a few years ago and you still have overcrowding, sub standard ward layouts and in organisations as big as the HSE you're going to get some poor staff, you have to be honest and say there are admin, portering, cleaners, nurses, midwives and doctors who aren't particularly good.
Whenever they do the next survey I doubt things will have changed much.
I was really upset and frankly traumatized by the way I was treated in hospital around the birth of my child. I doubt I'll ever be able to do it again.
As far as I can tell, the attitude is you should just be grateful if you and your baby make it out alive. Maybe my expectations are too high to expect more.
Obs-gyn was the training rotation I disliked the most. The maternity nurses were aggressive, mean, and belittling to both medical students and patients. It felt like a cult. I had no strong feelings on the profession before doing my rotation, but afterwards I've avoided maternity like the plague.
I remember having my first son, it was wonderful, nurses were very attentive and helpful and my delivery was less than 6hrs.
However, 4yrs later for my second it was absolutely dreadful, like a different hospital. The nurse went for her lunch and told me I wasn't dilated yet it would be a while. I had to scream for another nurse who also told me I was fine, I told them I had my first very fast and they need to check how many cm I was. When the nurse finally gave in and checked, there was a panic and rush because I was 10cm.
It was a terrifying experience to be left alone whilst screaming to give birth only to be told your nurse is in the canteen. I understand they have to eat but that is not a way to run a hospital, our healthcare has been collapsing for years before our very eyes. My eldest is 21 and youngest 17. The difference in those 4yrs was shocking to me.
Which hospital?
I remember being told by my mentor to go on my break even though i didn't want to as the woman we were caring for was getting close. She angrily forced me to go. I went to the canteen in the fucking far side of the basement cos my mentor and others complained about students using the tearoom in the Labour Ward when they're not full staff (????)
I missed the woman being whisked off for an emergency section, and my mentor was FURIOUS at me. Because apparently at 18-20yo with very little experience and being shunned to the far corners of the building with no phone service im also supposed to be a fucking fortune-teller. I complained and was allowed to use the tearoom from then on.
Good for you for standing up for yourself and complaining and rectifing a flaw in the system. Sounds like you're a caring and attentive medical professional. We need all the people like you in the system we can get.
>Sounds like you're a caring and attentive medical professional.
I failed the course after the same mentor straight up lied about me and i had a breakdown
Soooo much better. Im a civil servant so i have job for life and pension, no weekends unless i opt in for OT, no evenings unless i work late and bank flexitime, ability to WFH, no literal life or death decisions to make, no standing or running around all day, no crying myself to sleep over work anymore.
My Mother had me there and had a miscarriage in another pregnancy there. She was so traumatised by the doctor's barbaric treatment of her that she moved to Holles St to have my three siblings.
I wish I had done the same tbh, at the time people told me I was crazy going there but I didn't think much could change in 4yrs, how wrong I was. Such a pity really because some of the nursing staff were lovely.
>Consultant who wrote report completely made it all up.
My mentor in OLOL Labour Ward did that. She left in the middle of a highrisk delivery without warning and was nowhere to be found when it went tits-up. I managed the whole thing and got a doctor in to help with the postpartum haemorrhage. Mother and baby were fine, but it could have been tragic. Mentor ripped out my notes and wrote her own, saying that my actions had caused the haemorrhage.
College believed her over me, and failed me.
No. Blonde haired bitch called Fiona. She was pregnant herself at the time.
I hope she or her OLOL colleagues are reading. FIONA IS A HEARTLESS CUNT AND HAS NO PLACE IN A JOB INVOLVING CARING FOR ANYONE.
A family member is a midwife in OLOL, and received similar treatment but not from anyone called Fiona - was just curious if it was the same person, but apparently not!
Oh, she seemed 100% certain she was doing the world a favour in personally sabotaging my career, giving me a breakdown and making me want to fucking kill myself.
I'm just going to join in on this because it seems very cathartic and relates to an experience I had.
JEN IS A CRUEL WITCH AND SHOULD BE KEPT WELL AWAY FROM VULNERABLE PATIENTS AND STUDENTS.
I had contractions a minute long and a minute apart for about 6 hours. I was howling in pain, throwing up all over myself and I didn't understand what was happening. I feel fortunate I can only remember snippets. I thought the pain would kill me. They refused to give me an epidural because the baby wasn't descending and I was barely dilated, so it wasn't considered active labour and therefore no epidural for me. Throughout all this, I'd say maybe ten sentences were exchanged with staff. There had been meconium in my waters from the start, getting worse, and eventually the contractions put the baby in distress, meaning c-section. Turned out she was totally tied up in her cord and my body had been basically turning itself inside out trying to get her out. While I screamed and was ignored, because I was 2cm dilated rather than 3, and therefore I was just being a baby.
Then of course my husband was sent home and I had to try to care for a baby for the first time by myself with no working abdominal muscles. I couldn't lift her in and out of the crib and she cried every time someone wasn't holding her, so I just held her all night and desperately tried to stay awake so I wouldn't drop her or smother her.
It's like a kind of torture.
The fact that c-section mammies are left alone all night with a brand spanking new baby is one thing I’ll never understand about the birthing process. Not only have you had 7 layers of abdominal muscles sliced though, you’ve a brand spanking new human to care for and limited ability to do so safely. It’s appalling, mothers deserve better and it’s time the entire system put mothers needs first.
I’m so sorry that happened to you, I can’t imagine the fear. I hope you had support afterward to process. Hugs x
I went through my whole labour alone in a dark room, with a woman sleeping in the next bed. I went into hospital when my waters broke, and was brought to this bedroom and told it would be ages, and to go to sleep. I was to press the buzzer when the pain got bad. The pain got bad really quick, and I called the nurse who put some monitor on me, and told me angrily that ‘those are very small contractions’. So I felt like a hypochondriac, and spent the next few hours in agony but afraid to call again. When someone finally came back I was fully dilated and gave birth 15 min later.
My very first mentor in OLOL Labour Ward laughed in a woman's face. I wrote about it in my Reflection Essay for the college term but she refused to sign off on it cos "it makes [her] look bad"
The woman was very religious (not Christian but im not specifying any further in case bigots come crashing in here) and shyly asked if she could keep her trousers/pj pants on for the exam. Mentor laughed at her instead of sensitively explaining that we needed to be able to examine her vagina for labour progression, so pants need to be discarded. The woman was mortified and i felt so bad for her.
I was cringing watching some of the episodes of The Rotunda on telly at the way some members of the staff talked to and about patients. And they were doing that knowing they were being filmed. So toxic. There's a big difference between confidently supporting someone in labour, and trying to control her. I remember an episode when two midwives were being interviewed and laughing dismissively about a woman not taking her underwear off in a similar situation to what you've described.
I think it's a very toxic culture at times in maternity and it seems to be tolerated in a way it wouldn't be in other areas of healthcare.
I think what alot of professionals forget is they might see thousands of genitals, but a person isn't having thousands of people look at theirs. It's embarrassing and not a great experience to be laughed at.
Sadly the stories in that article don't surprise me in the slightest.
The culture in maternity is shocking. Overcrowded hospitals are accepted as the norm, and there's nonsense talked about it being all girls in together in an 8 bed ward supporting each other while sharing a toilet with 20 other patients - eh, no it's hell on earth. Dignity and privacy goes out the window, staff do a cursory knock on the door while walking into the room. Doors and cubicle curtains are left open, staff have the chats with each other about weekend plans with their hands inside patients.
I have never been so patronised in my life as I have been as a maternity patient. I paid the money to go private, and the experience was better for the antenatal appointments but still not great while an inpatient in the hospital.
The maternity system is built that way. I'd watch student midwives observing the qualified midwives and then copying their patronising tone "is it your first bay-bee?". Staff don't introduce themselves, or if they do it's all first names. Thats nice if we're pals going for a drink, but I want to know which member of the team you actually are. There's a LOT of pressure to just go along with what the plan is and don't be asking questions. I asked a question of a midwife at an antenatal appt once, she asked me why I'd asked that and that I shouldn't be "reading things and getting ideas".
Lots of talk about how I "had to" agree to interventions, or really just go along in a sham of implied consent with no attempt to explain the rationale. These weren't emergency situations at all, just routine stuff. It's normal to say that the "hospital won't LET x, y or z". Obstetricians and midwives aren't the baby police - we don't have to do a damn thing they say. Of course a lot of the time it's probably advisable and would be the reasonable thing to do, but that's not how it's talked about in maternity. The coercive 'don't you want what's best for baby?' line is used a lot.
Yeah, we all want the healthy baby and mum outcome. But we shouldn't have to accept traumatised parents to get that.
My first birth was absolutely traumatic. I was a young mom and bullied badly by the staff because I was so young. I was handed a questionaire for my birth plan and ask to fill it in. The next appointment it got a glance, torn in two and I was told 'you'll get what you get'.
The second I paid privately and while it was a great deal better at seeking my input and consent alot was dictated by covid and tough luck.
I'm sorry that was your experience. Unfortunately, there is still a lot of stigma around young mothers going to appointments, and it's even worse for them if their pregnancy ends in loss.
For a country that prides its self on acceptance. Its still very much an ageist culture
That is kind of you to say. I was angry and frightened for a long time. Medically gaslit and told things I experienced weren't possible (uncommon yes but not impossible). I specifically asked for no trainee midwives as I was so scared and was told again, you get what you get. I got 2 out of 2. One of them constantly checking a text book, the other couldn't get the drip in my arm. It took 5 tries and then a more experienced doctor had to come and use the webbing between thumb and forefinger as they had destroyed the back of my hand.
When I tried to voice my complaints I was told 'but baby is ok, that's all that matters.'. I never in my life felt so small and unimportant. Like cattle almost.
Thats a sample of my experience. I'm unsure if my second experience was better due to paying or being much older but I was listened to. The smallest thing I asked for was done. I wasn't even ridiculous in my requests. But the second time I said no trainees under any circumstances due to my first experience and magically I didn't. I know people have to learn and I'm very understanding of that. But when Im was in a very vulnerable position I didn't feel comfortable with it. I felt deathly scared.
Logically the same things can go wrong with an experienced professional but when you're young, high on hormones and scared, logic doesn't help you.
Sadly, this is common even now. There was a number of surveys done in 2022, and it stated that women aged 16-24 yo, who experienced a second trimester loss, rated their experiences of over all care as being extremely poor and was below the national average. This includes information, post natal care etc.
The main thing I noticed about having one child here and one born abroad, is the sense of stress in Ireland. The staff don't try to ensure you leave the hospital rested, and everything is about medical. While giving birth is a mixture of medical and emotional and social. I know it's customary to hail the lovely staff and blame some anonymous management at this point, but I definitely and absolutely blame the staff. They're just not great.
Had a strangely relaxed surprise birth in an ambulance, got to hospital and nurse wanted to stitch me. I explained I was very nervous with a history of assault, and she said she understood. She gave me a pain killer injection... and then started stitching IN THE SAME SENTANCE. Literally no pain killer kicked in and I had to force myself to dissociate to get through
Well this isn't what I wanted to read today as a first time pregant mom....I was scared enough already but now I'm hoping crossing my legs will keep it in there.
The best thing you can do is empower yourself with information so you can advocate for yourself and have an understanding of your options.
Cuidu do fantastic antenatal courses - https://antenatalireland.ie/what-we-offer/.
There is also the book Giving Birth in Ireland, which is filled with information and personal experiences from midwives, doulas, mothers and birth partners. https://www.organico.ie/giving-birth-in-ireland-edited-by-su-huschke-and-leigh-brosnan.html
I gave birth last year. You will be fine but you there’s a couple of key things that helps.
1. Be aware of what could happen so you’ve a sense of what an emergency c section is like or any interventions that may be needed quickly. The about pain relief for stitching and after the birth. Sometimes we avoid the practicalities but looking at them in advance pays off. Dr. Sarah Murphy has some great content on insta to help with research.
2. You do need to have a degree of assertiveness. I didn’t speak up during my birth - I gave the staff grace. It’s my biggest regret as they were very short staffed that night and I got deprioritised versus other patients. Unfortunately being nice is not the best approach for you getting the care you need when they’re so short staffed and the culture is not patient focussed. Take no shit and make sure your birth partner advocates for you. I know it might feel mean but it gets you and baby to a better standard of care. It often says online that midwives are angles or similar - that’s unfortunately largely bullshit.
I’ll just say that lots of people don’t know about all the possible interventions so become more traumatised when birth doesn’t “go to plan”.
aims ireland .ie is a good place to research birth in ireland
I've had three really positive birthing experiences, even though I had c sections with all three (unplanned but not emergency c sections), 2 of these were in the public system in Ireland in Wexford Hospital, which doesn't have a great name but I couldn't fault the maternity department.
The nurses, doctors, midwives, carers etc were all really nice to me and I felt really looked after. The nurses minded my babies for me for a few hours at night time so I could get some rest and brought them back for me to feed, helped me with getting into the right positioning for breast feeding etc.
I accidentally left the little hospital card from the cot with the babies name and time of birth etc in the hospital and was really sad as I had it from my previous two children, and one of the cleaners posted it out to me, I hadn't even considered it would still be there and thought it was gone straight in the bin so I never even enquired about it .
Hopefully everything goes well for you! I just gave birth in holles street for the 2nd time and had a great experience. My first was awful, but its been 7 years since then and they've changed a lot since then.
My best advice is go in educated about what you want and a realistic expectation of what could go wrong and what interventions you are comfortable with and go with a birth partner who knows your wants and advocates for you.
Best of luck, momma! You got this!
Just regarding the Jennifer story. Had very recent experience of this. We were in a high risk ward for premature and other high risk cases.
I left with baby after a brief moment with Mrs. Went into a recovery room where other husbands and newborns waited. She had to be stitched up. Appreciate it might have been against her wishes that the baby leave but it really isn't practical for the husband and baby to be in the room while she's being in the operating room. Mrs couldn't of possibly held baby.
The only real positive experience we had was the actual private labour room. All the others were awful. Especially when couples decided to bring the smelliest of curries into the room while other women are trying to sleep.
We'd probably look at private mainly because of other patients having no respect for others in the ward.
Only other issue I had was nurses and doctors not being transparent with concerns and then flagging X thing had to be done. I know they don't want to worry you needlessly but leaving info till last minute and then sign forms as your rushed out of the labour room.
Must best introduction to a person I've had though is.
"You must be dad?"
"Yea"
"hi, I'm the Baby Doctor"
There's actually no need for the baby to leave the operating theatre while closing after a c section. It's just more convenient for the staff. I held my babies on my chest after my c sections.
I know with my partner only her head and and shoulders were visible. No where she would've been able to hold him.
Also no one tells you about the uncontrollable shaking from the drugs or the vomiting. I did put him as close as I could to her but she wasn't capable of holding him. In reality I didn't even think it was practical for me to be there while the closed everything up.
Oh my god I had that shivering and vomiting too!! Is that from the epidural or what? It was the most weirdest thing I’ve ever experienced they were trying to shove my baby in my arms and I was lying down saying I’m going to get sick nearly choked on my own vomit
No it's from the anesthetic or something for c section.
From a partner view I was pulled in and thought something was wrong. They didn't mention it. They just gave me a sick bowl too to hold.
My own emcs was a very traumatic experience. But I was in the middle of a placental abruption at less than 30 weeks and I hadn't even begun to prepare for having my baby. It was a very serious situation and I do wish I'd had some things explained to me, but given the situation I can also understand that priority went to making sure neither of us died.
In fairness to the hosp, their NICU staff were absolutely top notch - really wonderful and so supportive - and their follow up care was very good too.
I know they don't want to worry people but I wish they were more upfront with what x thing means and simply say we don't need to worry about it now but just so you know and are not making a decision during more panicky moments
Oh wow 30 weeks!!! That must have been so scary, yeah looking back on my experience, I know it was necessary for mine and my babies health but it was just such a whirlwind. I remember saying to the midwives “you won’t ever be seeing me again” and they said “ah they all say that, you’ll be back” but no I am one and done 😂😂
When I was in the ward after my section there was a young-ish girl in the bed across from me. The night nurse for some reason decided that she was too precious to do any looking after of the baby herself and treated her like she was royalty. Kept telling her not to worry about feeding the baby, they'd give the bottles so the mam could "have a good rest".
Except when the nurse would leave the girl would just be scrolling through her phone til the baby cried again, at which point she'd press the bell and the nurse would come back to deal with it. By contrast, I had been completely ignored after the section and left in the bed for hours, struggling to reach my baby in the cot and had no one come when I pressed the bell.
At one point while her baby was asleep, I saw her lean over the cot with a plastic water bottle and crinkle it so the baby would wake up again and start bawling. To this day I have no idea WTF was going on in that maternity ward.
I felt as a partner was they were very encouraging of using bottles. There was one nurse who focused on breast feeding.
Other than that it was fairly annoying when nurses and doctors would do tests just when baby fell asleep a d gave them back screaming. Just made it hard for mrs to get sleep.
Experiences like yours make me wonder how difficult it was for women specifically during COVID .
Oh christ I had the same thing with the tests. I'd just gotten her all cleaned up and changed, ready for her first visitors. She was dozing when the (horrible) consultant came down and started wiggling her legs and hips all over the place, some sort of hip dysplasia test. Handed her back not only screaming, but with the freshly shat shite leaking all up the back of her clean little onesie.
I burst into tears and 20 mins later someone came down and accused me of having PPD, threw a pamphlet at me and left. I didn't even put shoes on when I was leaving the hospital, couldn't fucking wait to get us out of there.
Specifically during covid? Awful. Can confirm. I had mine during 2020. My SO was allowed with me for 1h after birth and after that I was completely alone in a private room (which was nice). Nurses and doctors tried to avoid me as much as possible due to restrictions. I couldn't shower as there was no one to watch the baby, the nurses said it wasn't allowed for them to take it.
I wanted out ASAP. My blood pressure was high (probably due to the stress) and I just needed to go. But they were refusing I go until my blood pressure came down. It was baffling.
It looks like you've made a grammatical error. You've written "couldn't of ", when it should be "have" instead of "of". You _should have_ known that. Bosco is not proud of you today.
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Absolutely- had this experience, everytime I tried to drift off there’s be someone making a commotion, or bringing in fast food etc that woke me. I ended up with a kind of insomnia that didn’t subside for 5 days. Had to stop breastfeeding for a time so the doctor could give me sleeping tablets and get my body to relax.
I won't even go into my experience too much but it's taken me almost three years to come to terms with it. I have physical injuries and will never be the same due to the negiligents and poor care. It is unacceptable. Thankfully I could afford my own therapy and my baby survived. However, it easily could have been a very different story.
Honestly we had our first at the coombe and second at Holles street and all aspects were like night and day.
We were semi private at both, had an emergency c section at the coombe due to factors outside their control of course but the hse’s own guidance on the issue online was schedule an early c section to avoid the situation which our consultant said there was “no need to do it’ll be fine”… righttt. Anyways they did nothing to try and accommodate the nice things mentioned during the antenatal classes and also whisked our son away to nicu for 6 ish hours to use the hot plate for about 30mins (something that’s in every delivery room….). During that time my wife never held her son on birth for over six hours, I’d even had to dress him alone in the nicu and she hadn’t a clue what was happening / I hadn’t a clue how she was. It was horrendous. The post care maternity ward staff were shite. We only encountered one midwife in 4 days of being stuck there that took some time to chat to my wife about breastfeeding. I’ll never forget when we finally got to bring my son to my wife in the maternity ward and she wanted to start breastfeeding immediately so asked for help. The midwife there at that stage was like ohhhhh oh *sigh* ok… my wife had just had surgery, can’t use her legs and can barely move and the nurse is telling me it’s time for partners to leave btw - all while not fucked helping her 😂 it was hectic and shit. Even her explanation of breastfeeding was comically bad / put the baby on breast ‘ NOW child is feeding good good ok bye bye…. And off she went 😭😭😭 I stayed till about 5am ignoring them commenting I should leave as they wouldn’t help her at all it was horrific. They consistently offered formula over and over as an alternative while is totally against their antenatal classes content….
Holles street on the other hand - the maternity ward staff we met were all good to great … which is so frustrating thinking back on our first experience they were also superb at helping with breastfeeding
My nanny’s first born child was stillborn, she gave birth to him and they whisked him away and she never got to even see him. We’re not even too sure where he’s buried
It’s also because birth is constantly being portrayed on social media as so beautiful and perfect when it’s actually incredibly dangerous. Many women used to die in childbirth before modern medical interventions. The traumatic experiences described in this article are so common but we’re not really allowed to talk about it because “you have your beautiful baby and that resolves everything”
The ultimate goal with any emergency c section is to saves lives with emergency surgery. There are different categories of c section. A category 1 means the baby has to be born within 30 minutes of it being declared an emergency. 30 minutes is very generous, it usually happens within minutes.
There’s obviously a bit of both but the lack of explanation afterwards is a bigger issue. If someone has just had an emergency c section under these circumstances then there should be a debrief as standard and it should happen as early as possible. Likely the women will need some help with PTSD and may have serious injuries
I'd imagine the overall priority for the doctors and nurses is to have a safe delivery for mom and baby. We didn't have a birth plan but the impression we got was they tended to interfere with everything.
That’s it. Most of these traumatic births are emergency life and death situations where a birth plan means nothing
One of the women wrote that she wasn’t warned that this might happen because staff were trying to keep things calm and not worry her. That’s valid. Maybe there needs to be a little more discussion around “worst case scenarios” so that people will at least understand what’s happening when there’s no time for doctors to be nice and explain. But even then a lot of women would refuse that module because they won’t engage with any negatives
I do wonder would it help if they understood that if something goes wrong the doctors and nurses will do everything in their power and more to help you and the baby. But if that happens the doctors have to focus on doing medical things very quickly without time to explain and be kind. The kindness in this is the fact that they’re doing everything possible to save your life and the baby. But when you’re used to people fawning over you because you’re pregnant this change of atmosphere is of course horrendously upsetting at a time when you’re very, very vulnerable
Re the consent thing: I would say that the lady who said she didn’t consent actually did consent. Because she definitely must have signed something saying she’d accept medical intervention in an emergency. Her life or that of her baby was most likely in grave danger at the point she felt she didn’t consent and she would have consented to having her life saved
All the interventions should be covered in maternity education imo. So much time is wasted teaching about how to bathe and swaddle a baby when it’s much more pertinent that women know the proceedures and can be reassured when the hospital are following them
This isn't women complaining because they didn't get the right essential oil as they stated in their birth plan. Why is it so common to dismiss legitimate complaints and ignore women's experiences...?
It's not a matter of niceness or kindness to fail to communicate with patients, fail to obtain informed consent and to not listen to their concerns. It's professional misconduct.
That doesn't excuse the lack of empathy. It's not actually more work to ensure a patient is decently informed. It's because we used to select autistic savants as doctors when there was the points race, without filtering for ability to work with patients.
It also doesn't mention the countless incidents of women presenting to hospitals with concerns that are commonly dismissed. Women know when something is wrong with their bodies and baby, but when presenting these concerns, they meet dismissal. This then could result in second trimester loss or still birth.
From my own experience, on my third pregnancy, after having 2 miscarriages, which I disclosed, at twelve weeks, I had a threatened miscarriage, no interventions were applied to me, just in case of loss, Baby stuck and I demanded a stitch. They refused, "you're not severe enough", at 20 weeks I began leaking fluid, I called them " your not high risk" and expected to go from 13 weeks to 32 weeks without a scan. Sure enough, baby was born a week later but looked very big for a 21 weeker. Ultimately, my baby was left to die with again no intervention.
Even had some nurse tell me to stop taking gas and air because I was using it alot, but was offered no other pain relief.
Then was put back on the same ward with all these pregnant ladies. While my baby was laying in a cuddle cot. Again some nurses were lovely, one came in and Said that my crying was disrupting other patients.
Eventually a doctor came around and told me that I should have been given a stitch straight after the first bleed.
This was 3 years ago, don't imagine it's gotten better
I am so sorry this happened to you and absolutely horrified at the standard of care described here.
Frankly, everyone I know who has given birth in the last 5 years has had a horror story about the experience - chaotic environments that don't allow for privacy or dignity, terrible communication between staff and parents, dismissive attitudes towards pain management, lack of consent sought for just about anything, the list goes on.
There are hospitals in this country that are constantly under litigation and trying to quell lawsuits because of malpractice and negligence. It's completely unacceptable.
Was at the materinity ward yesterday, and there was a lady getting induced with the gel. She was on a 3 third and was in pain. When the staff was applying the gel, she was shouting stop consistently and crying, staff didn't stop and kept on going, then the lady cried some more and just had to bear with it.
That is life......
It’s not though. When someone withdraws consent they’re supposed to stop. They might need to go again but they should have stopped that and discussed the implications with her. Or looked at pain relief to ease her pain whilst they were applying the gel. It’s not ok to keep going.
Awful for the poor women. Just on the first story, that's a Category One Section. They're horrible but it's deemed necessary to get the baby out as quickly as possible to give it and the Mum the best possible chance. So the anaesthetist will be putting the mum to sleep at the same time the catheter is going in, at the same time as the patient is painted and draped. These would all usually be individual unique steps, but even a proper surgical scrub for the scrub nurse and doctors doing the procedure (washing your hands for the prescribed time and correct method) goes out the window for a true Cat 1. Unfortunately the partner can't be in theatre for a general anaesthetic and the theatre nurse isn't always going to know immediately how baby is because they get taken to SCBU (special care), and the recovery nurse would have been in the same room as her, and yes it probably wasn't a bright room. Tl;dr. It's a shit show, and the patient and their partner's experience is often terrible.
Exactly this! I've scrubbed in obstetric theatres. The lady is hardly draped and the baby is born with a cat 1 section. It's a horrendous situation to be in but the goal is to save lives with time running out extremely quickly.
Yes, this reads like life saving quick intervention but that she absolutely should have been debriefed about afterwards
That sounds terrifying for everyone involved.
You have missed the biggest problem, which is explicit in the article and for that example. The woman was not asked for her consent and nobody explained to her what was happening. That is totally unacceptable and is what made her trauma so much worse.
I didn't miss anything, I stated it was a category one section, which it clearly was, and what can happen generally in a category one section. I haven't commented on what happened to that woman because I wasn't there, don't have access to her notes and can't see what was done or why.
It would make a big difference to hear you're having a cat 1 emmergency c section, we wont be able to drape you properly/get your consent on everything. No debriefing afterward, just left in a dark room with no information on what happened, why it happened and no detailed information on the status of her babies. Hospitals are massively understaffed, it's unacceptable that there's not enough capacity to inform people of their procedures.
I don't know the ins and outs of her care but it reads like she was getting ready for a section because she mentions her husband, up to that point, was going to be in the theatre. She must have consented then. It reads like she never consented to a catheter. Most of the time there isn't time to even explain properly to a lady about the emergency. This is because things can go wrong within seconds. I've seen ladies brought in to the theatre on a bed with a midwife holding back the umbilical cord. I had a lady on the operating table in her street clothes because she had an antenatal haemorrhage and was brought straight in. I can't even begin to imagine how traumatic this is for women but the ultimate goal is to save lives with emergency surgery.
I'm not trying to criticise at all, what you do is really important, but I think it's also important to acknowledge that this country historically has not established much trust in patients and especially not in labouring mothers. And by "historically" I mean fairly recently. Symphysiotomy victims weren't told what was going on either, and not just in the moment but for years afterwards, just left with horrific pain and side effects with no idea what had been done to them in the hospital. Even once the facts came to light, the inquiry was incredibly cruel, and the state dragged its feet for so long that many of the victims died before any restitution was made. And let's not forget Dr Neary who lost the run of himself giving women hysterectomies and oophorectomies they didn't need for *twenty five years* and nobody stopped him because of systemic failures. This is just the scandals affecting peripartum women, not all the other scandals like the Cervical check and Hepatitis scandals. We have to remember that when you're giving birth and something goes wrong, a history like that is obviously going to make it even more traumatic.
Oh there's definitely failures in the system. Womens health so far behind it's scandalous. The fact endometriosis is "still a mystery" to physicians is madness. I have 4 children myself, luckily I'm in healthcare so I can advocate for myself but no matter what a woman is still very vulnerable when they're pregnant and in labour. Maternity units can be toxic environments. I've known fantastic nurses who went on to do midwifery, got their diplomas and went straight back to nursing because it was such a horrible environment to work in. Short staffed, blame culture mixed with "I was treated like that when I was training so I'll treat you the same" culture.
Literally one sentence could have made her experience easier to deal with "I'm so sorry, we need to do a section ASAP to get baby out as they're not doing well and a general anaesthetic is going to help us do that very quickly" That's it. That's not a lot to ask for before operating on someone. Takes a few seconds.
I don't think this would have made her happy. She would have consented to this being done. She ultimately had a good outcome in a situation where mortality is prob between 5 and 10%.
I'm not saying happy, none of that situation of joyful. But it would have helped her integrate a terrible experience and help her feel less like she was being assaulted. And it would take less than thirty seconds to say.
Who would say it? Those 30 seconds when a baby may not be breathing are absolutely of the essence. Clearly there should have been someone to explain as soon as everyone was calm but this is as big of a birth emergency as it gets
I'd sooner my life and my baby's were saved even if there wasn't time to ask consent. But the basic lack of respect for women is the point of this story. The doctors and nurses don't sound like they're behaving like adults; in non-emergency situations, some formality and respect is a central requirement.
The biggest problem is that the first person who had an emergency section at 32 weeks and twins that needed SCBU has decided to have a private midwife to avoid the HSE. A risky decision.
Yep, and they could unfortunately still end up in the same operating theatre having the same emergency section, private midwife or not.
thanks for your reasoned and informed response. Can I ask? Do you think there's an agenda in the original article?
I think the Journal likes clicks and the headline is obviously designed to drive that, not sure the Journal is noble enough to have an agenda other than getting eyes on its site. The headline "Overwhelming majority of Women satisfied with their maternity care in HSE" isn't going to get the page views. In my view linking fair and poor as a category was a really bad choice by the HSE when they designed their survey and the overview, "fair" is another work for okay, meh etc. and they have categorised it with "poor" which is clearly not okay. The women featured had a bad time under the HSE's care and highlighted issues, like people have in the responses here. I've no idea if the issues they raised have been raised with the hospitals they attended but I'd hope they were listened to, it's very sad to think people have such an awful time in HSE care. I don't believe the HSE (generally, not just maternity services) is in a great place at the moment, there are staff shortages but more importantly skill mix is much worse than how it was a few years ago and you still have overcrowding, sub standard ward layouts and in organisations as big as the HSE you're going to get some poor staff, you have to be honest and say there are admin, portering, cleaners, nurses, midwives and doctors who aren't particularly good. Whenever they do the next survey I doubt things will have changed much.
I was really upset and frankly traumatized by the way I was treated in hospital around the birth of my child. I doubt I'll ever be able to do it again. As far as I can tell, the attitude is you should just be grateful if you and your baby make it out alive. Maybe my expectations are too high to expect more.
Same.
Obs-gyn was the training rotation I disliked the most. The maternity nurses were aggressive, mean, and belittling to both medical students and patients. It felt like a cult. I had no strong feelings on the profession before doing my rotation, but afterwards I've avoided maternity like the plague.
I remember having my first son, it was wonderful, nurses were very attentive and helpful and my delivery was less than 6hrs. However, 4yrs later for my second it was absolutely dreadful, like a different hospital. The nurse went for her lunch and told me I wasn't dilated yet it would be a while. I had to scream for another nurse who also told me I was fine, I told them I had my first very fast and they need to check how many cm I was. When the nurse finally gave in and checked, there was a panic and rush because I was 10cm. It was a terrifying experience to be left alone whilst screaming to give birth only to be told your nurse is in the canteen. I understand they have to eat but that is not a way to run a hospital, our healthcare has been collapsing for years before our very eyes. My eldest is 21 and youngest 17. The difference in those 4yrs was shocking to me.
Which hospital? I remember being told by my mentor to go on my break even though i didn't want to as the woman we were caring for was getting close. She angrily forced me to go. I went to the canteen in the fucking far side of the basement cos my mentor and others complained about students using the tearoom in the Labour Ward when they're not full staff (????) I missed the woman being whisked off for an emergency section, and my mentor was FURIOUS at me. Because apparently at 18-20yo with very little experience and being shunned to the far corners of the building with no phone service im also supposed to be a fucking fortune-teller. I complained and was allowed to use the tearoom from then on.
Good for you for standing up for yourself and complaining and rectifing a flaw in the system. Sounds like you're a caring and attentive medical professional. We need all the people like you in the system we can get.
>Sounds like you're a caring and attentive medical professional. I failed the course after the same mentor straight up lied about me and i had a breakdown
Omg I’m so sorry. How are you doing now if you don’t mind my asking
Soooo much better. Im a civil servant so i have job for life and pension, no weekends unless i opt in for OT, no evenings unless i work late and bank flexitime, ability to WFH, no literal life or death decisions to make, no standing or running around all day, no crying myself to sleep over work anymore.
Delighted hear that!! My friend has a very similar story. She was a nurse, now in hospital admin. She’s a million times happier
Fuck Sassy. That'll stick with ya. So sorry. X
Rotunda.
My Mother had me there and had a miscarriage in another pregnancy there. She was so traumatised by the doctor's barbaric treatment of her that she moved to Holles St to have my three siblings.
I wish I had done the same tbh, at the time people told me I was crazy going there but I didn't think much could change in 4yrs, how wrong I was. Such a pity really because some of the nursing staff were lovely.
FFG (+4)
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>Consultant who wrote report completely made it all up. My mentor in OLOL Labour Ward did that. She left in the middle of a highrisk delivery without warning and was nowhere to be found when it went tits-up. I managed the whole thing and got a doctor in to help with the postpartum haemorrhage. Mother and baby were fine, but it could have been tragic. Mentor ripped out my notes and wrote her own, saying that my actions had caused the haemorrhage. College believed her over me, and failed me.
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Could you share how long ago this was? I'd like to hope some time has passed and improvements have been made
Said mentor was hardly a tall red-head by any chance?
No. Blonde haired bitch called Fiona. She was pregnant herself at the time. I hope she or her OLOL colleagues are reading. FIONA IS A HEARTLESS CUNT AND HAS NO PLACE IN A JOB INVOLVING CARING FOR ANYONE.
A family member is a midwife in OLOL, and received similar treatment but not from anyone called Fiona - was just curious if it was the same person, but apparently not!
There were a few bullies in there. And my experience was 2007-2011
Well before her time so, she wasn't even in college by 2011! Sad to say in that case that it obviously hasn't improved much.
I bet she doesn't even remember the incident if she is reading. And thinks 'nah its another fiona'.
Or will claim im lying
Nah. People like her never think they're the bad guy.
Oh, she seemed 100% certain she was doing the world a favour in personally sabotaging my career, giving me a breakdown and making me want to fucking kill myself.
I'm just going to join in on this because it seems very cathartic and relates to an experience I had. JEN IS A CRUEL WITCH AND SHOULD BE KEPT WELL AWAY FROM VULNERABLE PATIENTS AND STUDENTS.
I had contractions a minute long and a minute apart for about 6 hours. I was howling in pain, throwing up all over myself and I didn't understand what was happening. I feel fortunate I can only remember snippets. I thought the pain would kill me. They refused to give me an epidural because the baby wasn't descending and I was barely dilated, so it wasn't considered active labour and therefore no epidural for me. Throughout all this, I'd say maybe ten sentences were exchanged with staff. There had been meconium in my waters from the start, getting worse, and eventually the contractions put the baby in distress, meaning c-section. Turned out she was totally tied up in her cord and my body had been basically turning itself inside out trying to get her out. While I screamed and was ignored, because I was 2cm dilated rather than 3, and therefore I was just being a baby. Then of course my husband was sent home and I had to try to care for a baby for the first time by myself with no working abdominal muscles. I couldn't lift her in and out of the crib and she cried every time someone wasn't holding her, so I just held her all night and desperately tried to stay awake so I wouldn't drop her or smother her. It's like a kind of torture.
Wow we had exactly the same experience almost to a t.
The fact that c-section mammies are left alone all night with a brand spanking new baby is one thing I’ll never understand about the birthing process. Not only have you had 7 layers of abdominal muscles sliced though, you’ve a brand spanking new human to care for and limited ability to do so safely. It’s appalling, mothers deserve better and it’s time the entire system put mothers needs first. I’m so sorry that happened to you, I can’t imagine the fear. I hope you had support afterward to process. Hugs x
I went through my whole labour alone in a dark room, with a woman sleeping in the next bed. I went into hospital when my waters broke, and was brought to this bedroom and told it would be ages, and to go to sleep. I was to press the buzzer when the pain got bad. The pain got bad really quick, and I called the nurse who put some monitor on me, and told me angrily that ‘those are very small contractions’. So I felt like a hypochondriac, and spent the next few hours in agony but afraid to call again. When someone finally came back I was fully dilated and gave birth 15 min later.
My very first mentor in OLOL Labour Ward laughed in a woman's face. I wrote about it in my Reflection Essay for the college term but she refused to sign off on it cos "it makes [her] look bad" The woman was very religious (not Christian but im not specifying any further in case bigots come crashing in here) and shyly asked if she could keep her trousers/pj pants on for the exam. Mentor laughed at her instead of sensitively explaining that we needed to be able to examine her vagina for labour progression, so pants need to be discarded. The woman was mortified and i felt so bad for her.
I was cringing watching some of the episodes of The Rotunda on telly at the way some members of the staff talked to and about patients. And they were doing that knowing they were being filmed. So toxic. There's a big difference between confidently supporting someone in labour, and trying to control her. I remember an episode when two midwives were being interviewed and laughing dismissively about a woman not taking her underwear off in a similar situation to what you've described. I think it's a very toxic culture at times in maternity and it seems to be tolerated in a way it wouldn't be in other areas of healthcare.
I think what alot of professionals forget is they might see thousands of genitals, but a person isn't having thousands of people look at theirs. It's embarrassing and not a great experience to be laughed at.
Sadly the stories in that article don't surprise me in the slightest. The culture in maternity is shocking. Overcrowded hospitals are accepted as the norm, and there's nonsense talked about it being all girls in together in an 8 bed ward supporting each other while sharing a toilet with 20 other patients - eh, no it's hell on earth. Dignity and privacy goes out the window, staff do a cursory knock on the door while walking into the room. Doors and cubicle curtains are left open, staff have the chats with each other about weekend plans with their hands inside patients. I have never been so patronised in my life as I have been as a maternity patient. I paid the money to go private, and the experience was better for the antenatal appointments but still not great while an inpatient in the hospital. The maternity system is built that way. I'd watch student midwives observing the qualified midwives and then copying their patronising tone "is it your first bay-bee?". Staff don't introduce themselves, or if they do it's all first names. Thats nice if we're pals going for a drink, but I want to know which member of the team you actually are. There's a LOT of pressure to just go along with what the plan is and don't be asking questions. I asked a question of a midwife at an antenatal appt once, she asked me why I'd asked that and that I shouldn't be "reading things and getting ideas". Lots of talk about how I "had to" agree to interventions, or really just go along in a sham of implied consent with no attempt to explain the rationale. These weren't emergency situations at all, just routine stuff. It's normal to say that the "hospital won't LET x, y or z". Obstetricians and midwives aren't the baby police - we don't have to do a damn thing they say. Of course a lot of the time it's probably advisable and would be the reasonable thing to do, but that's not how it's talked about in maternity. The coercive 'don't you want what's best for baby?' line is used a lot. Yeah, we all want the healthy baby and mum outcome. But we shouldn't have to accept traumatised parents to get that.
My first birth was absolutely traumatic. I was a young mom and bullied badly by the staff because I was so young. I was handed a questionaire for my birth plan and ask to fill it in. The next appointment it got a glance, torn in two and I was told 'you'll get what you get'. The second I paid privately and while it was a great deal better at seeking my input and consent alot was dictated by covid and tough luck.
I'm sorry that was your experience. Unfortunately, there is still a lot of stigma around young mothers going to appointments, and it's even worse for them if their pregnancy ends in loss. For a country that prides its self on acceptance. Its still very much an ageist culture
That is kind of you to say. I was angry and frightened for a long time. Medically gaslit and told things I experienced weren't possible (uncommon yes but not impossible). I specifically asked for no trainee midwives as I was so scared and was told again, you get what you get. I got 2 out of 2. One of them constantly checking a text book, the other couldn't get the drip in my arm. It took 5 tries and then a more experienced doctor had to come and use the webbing between thumb and forefinger as they had destroyed the back of my hand. When I tried to voice my complaints I was told 'but baby is ok, that's all that matters.'. I never in my life felt so small and unimportant. Like cattle almost. Thats a sample of my experience. I'm unsure if my second experience was better due to paying or being much older but I was listened to. The smallest thing I asked for was done. I wasn't even ridiculous in my requests. But the second time I said no trainees under any circumstances due to my first experience and magically I didn't. I know people have to learn and I'm very understanding of that. But when Im was in a very vulnerable position I didn't feel comfortable with it. I felt deathly scared. Logically the same things can go wrong with an experienced professional but when you're young, high on hormones and scared, logic doesn't help you.
Sadly, this is common even now. There was a number of surveys done in 2022, and it stated that women aged 16-24 yo, who experienced a second trimester loss, rated their experiences of over all care as being extremely poor and was below the national average. This includes information, post natal care etc.
It doesn't shock me in the slightest.
The main thing I noticed about having one child here and one born abroad, is the sense of stress in Ireland. The staff don't try to ensure you leave the hospital rested, and everything is about medical. While giving birth is a mixture of medical and emotional and social. I know it's customary to hail the lovely staff and blame some anonymous management at this point, but I definitely and absolutely blame the staff. They're just not great.
Had a strangely relaxed surprise birth in an ambulance, got to hospital and nurse wanted to stitch me. I explained I was very nervous with a history of assault, and she said she understood. She gave me a pain killer injection... and then started stitching IN THE SAME SENTANCE. Literally no pain killer kicked in and I had to force myself to dissociate to get through
Left in afterbirth for an hour whilst nurse had a tea break. So gross still upsets me.
Well this isn't what I wanted to read today as a first time pregant mom....I was scared enough already but now I'm hoping crossing my legs will keep it in there.
The best thing you can do is empower yourself with information so you can advocate for yourself and have an understanding of your options. Cuidu do fantastic antenatal courses - https://antenatalireland.ie/what-we-offer/. There is also the book Giving Birth in Ireland, which is filled with information and personal experiences from midwives, doulas, mothers and birth partners. https://www.organico.ie/giving-birth-in-ireland-edited-by-su-huschke-and-leigh-brosnan.html
I gave birth last year. You will be fine but you there’s a couple of key things that helps. 1. Be aware of what could happen so you’ve a sense of what an emergency c section is like or any interventions that may be needed quickly. The about pain relief for stitching and after the birth. Sometimes we avoid the practicalities but looking at them in advance pays off. Dr. Sarah Murphy has some great content on insta to help with research. 2. You do need to have a degree of assertiveness. I didn’t speak up during my birth - I gave the staff grace. It’s my biggest regret as they were very short staffed that night and I got deprioritised versus other patients. Unfortunately being nice is not the best approach for you getting the care you need when they’re so short staffed and the culture is not patient focussed. Take no shit and make sure your birth partner advocates for you. I know it might feel mean but it gets you and baby to a better standard of care. It often says online that midwives are angles or similar - that’s unfortunately largely bullshit.
I’ll just say that lots of people don’t know about all the possible interventions so become more traumatised when birth doesn’t “go to plan”. aims ireland .ie is a good place to research birth in ireland
I've had three really positive birthing experiences, even though I had c sections with all three (unplanned but not emergency c sections), 2 of these were in the public system in Ireland in Wexford Hospital, which doesn't have a great name but I couldn't fault the maternity department. The nurses, doctors, midwives, carers etc were all really nice to me and I felt really looked after. The nurses minded my babies for me for a few hours at night time so I could get some rest and brought them back for me to feed, helped me with getting into the right positioning for breast feeding etc. I accidentally left the little hospital card from the cot with the babies name and time of birth etc in the hospital and was really sad as I had it from my previous two children, and one of the cleaners posted it out to me, I hadn't even considered it would still be there and thought it was gone straight in the bin so I never even enquired about it .
Hopefully everything goes well for you! I just gave birth in holles street for the 2nd time and had a great experience. My first was awful, but its been 7 years since then and they've changed a lot since then. My best advice is go in educated about what you want and a realistic expectation of what could go wrong and what interventions you are comfortable with and go with a birth partner who knows your wants and advocates for you. Best of luck, momma! You got this!
Just regarding the Jennifer story. Had very recent experience of this. We were in a high risk ward for premature and other high risk cases. I left with baby after a brief moment with Mrs. Went into a recovery room where other husbands and newborns waited. She had to be stitched up. Appreciate it might have been against her wishes that the baby leave but it really isn't practical for the husband and baby to be in the room while she's being in the operating room. Mrs couldn't of possibly held baby. The only real positive experience we had was the actual private labour room. All the others were awful. Especially when couples decided to bring the smelliest of curries into the room while other women are trying to sleep. We'd probably look at private mainly because of other patients having no respect for others in the ward. Only other issue I had was nurses and doctors not being transparent with concerns and then flagging X thing had to be done. I know they don't want to worry you needlessly but leaving info till last minute and then sign forms as your rushed out of the labour room. Must best introduction to a person I've had though is. "You must be dad?" "Yea" "hi, I'm the Baby Doctor"
There's actually no need for the baby to leave the operating theatre while closing after a c section. It's just more convenient for the staff. I held my babies on my chest after my c sections.
I know with my partner only her head and and shoulders were visible. No where she would've been able to hold him. Also no one tells you about the uncontrollable shaking from the drugs or the vomiting. I did put him as close as I could to her but she wasn't capable of holding him. In reality I didn't even think it was practical for me to be there while the closed everything up.
Oh my god I had that shivering and vomiting too!! Is that from the epidural or what? It was the most weirdest thing I’ve ever experienced they were trying to shove my baby in my arms and I was lying down saying I’m going to get sick nearly choked on my own vomit
No it's from the anesthetic or something for c section. From a partner view I was pulled in and thought something was wrong. They didn't mention it. They just gave me a sick bowl too to hold.
Yeah I had an emergency c section and I hadn’t a clue what to expect, it was a woeful experience and horrible recovery also
My own emcs was a very traumatic experience. But I was in the middle of a placental abruption at less than 30 weeks and I hadn't even begun to prepare for having my baby. It was a very serious situation and I do wish I'd had some things explained to me, but given the situation I can also understand that priority went to making sure neither of us died. In fairness to the hosp, their NICU staff were absolutely top notch - really wonderful and so supportive - and their follow up care was very good too.
I know they don't want to worry people but I wish they were more upfront with what x thing means and simply say we don't need to worry about it now but just so you know and are not making a decision during more panicky moments
Oh wow 30 weeks!!! That must have been so scary, yeah looking back on my experience, I know it was necessary for mine and my babies health but it was just such a whirlwind. I remember saying to the midwives “you won’t ever be seeing me again” and they said “ah they all say that, you’ll be back” but no I am one and done 😂😂
When I was in the ward after my section there was a young-ish girl in the bed across from me. The night nurse for some reason decided that she was too precious to do any looking after of the baby herself and treated her like she was royalty. Kept telling her not to worry about feeding the baby, they'd give the bottles so the mam could "have a good rest". Except when the nurse would leave the girl would just be scrolling through her phone til the baby cried again, at which point she'd press the bell and the nurse would come back to deal with it. By contrast, I had been completely ignored after the section and left in the bed for hours, struggling to reach my baby in the cot and had no one come when I pressed the bell. At one point while her baby was asleep, I saw her lean over the cot with a plastic water bottle and crinkle it so the baby would wake up again and start bawling. To this day I have no idea WTF was going on in that maternity ward.
I felt as a partner was they were very encouraging of using bottles. There was one nurse who focused on breast feeding. Other than that it was fairly annoying when nurses and doctors would do tests just when baby fell asleep a d gave them back screaming. Just made it hard for mrs to get sleep. Experiences like yours make me wonder how difficult it was for women specifically during COVID .
Oh christ I had the same thing with the tests. I'd just gotten her all cleaned up and changed, ready for her first visitors. She was dozing when the (horrible) consultant came down and started wiggling her legs and hips all over the place, some sort of hip dysplasia test. Handed her back not only screaming, but with the freshly shat shite leaking all up the back of her clean little onesie. I burst into tears and 20 mins later someone came down and accused me of having PPD, threw a pamphlet at me and left. I didn't even put shoes on when I was leaving the hospital, couldn't fucking wait to get us out of there.
Specifically during covid? Awful. Can confirm. I had mine during 2020. My SO was allowed with me for 1h after birth and after that I was completely alone in a private room (which was nice). Nurses and doctors tried to avoid me as much as possible due to restrictions. I couldn't shower as there was no one to watch the baby, the nurses said it wasn't allowed for them to take it. I wanted out ASAP. My blood pressure was high (probably due to the stress) and I just needed to go. But they were refusing I go until my blood pressure came down. It was baffling.
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Smell of a curry doesn't really seem like the biggest concern
If your trying to sleep in a ward with 10-12 other heavily pregnant women it can make it really difficult in a time that's already stressful.
Absolutely- had this experience, everytime I tried to drift off there’s be someone making a commotion, or bringing in fast food etc that woke me. I ended up with a kind of insomnia that didn’t subside for 5 days. Had to stop breastfeeding for a time so the doctor could give me sleeping tablets and get my body to relax.
I won't even go into my experience too much but it's taken me almost three years to come to terms with it. I have physical injuries and will never be the same due to the negiligents and poor care. It is unacceptable. Thankfully I could afford my own therapy and my baby survived. However, it easily could have been a very different story.
I hope all these mothers go en masse to the annual meeting of the nurses' union and the doctors' and consultants' unions and demand change.
Honestly we had our first at the coombe and second at Holles street and all aspects were like night and day. We were semi private at both, had an emergency c section at the coombe due to factors outside their control of course but the hse’s own guidance on the issue online was schedule an early c section to avoid the situation which our consultant said there was “no need to do it’ll be fine”… righttt. Anyways they did nothing to try and accommodate the nice things mentioned during the antenatal classes and also whisked our son away to nicu for 6 ish hours to use the hot plate for about 30mins (something that’s in every delivery room….). During that time my wife never held her son on birth for over six hours, I’d even had to dress him alone in the nicu and she hadn’t a clue what was happening / I hadn’t a clue how she was. It was horrendous. The post care maternity ward staff were shite. We only encountered one midwife in 4 days of being stuck there that took some time to chat to my wife about breastfeeding. I’ll never forget when we finally got to bring my son to my wife in the maternity ward and she wanted to start breastfeeding immediately so asked for help. The midwife there at that stage was like ohhhhh oh *sigh* ok… my wife had just had surgery, can’t use her legs and can barely move and the nurse is telling me it’s time for partners to leave btw - all while not fucked helping her 😂 it was hectic and shit. Even her explanation of breastfeeding was comically bad / put the baby on breast ‘ NOW child is feeding good good ok bye bye…. And off she went 😭😭😭 I stayed till about 5am ignoring them commenting I should leave as they wouldn’t help her at all it was horrific. They consistently offered formula over and over as an alternative while is totally against their antenatal classes content…. Holles street on the other hand - the maternity ward staff we met were all good to great … which is so frustrating thinking back on our first experience they were also superb at helping with breastfeeding
My nanny’s first born child was stillborn, she gave birth to him and they whisked him away and she never got to even see him. We’re not even too sure where he’s buried
I wonder were the doctors trying to save them and their babies lives? Maybe the doctors knew more than the patients but didn't have time to tell them.
It’s also because birth is constantly being portrayed on social media as so beautiful and perfect when it’s actually incredibly dangerous. Many women used to die in childbirth before modern medical interventions. The traumatic experiences described in this article are so common but we’re not really allowed to talk about it because “you have your beautiful baby and that resolves everything”
The ultimate goal with any emergency c section is to saves lives with emergency surgery. There are different categories of c section. A category 1 means the baby has to be born within 30 minutes of it being declared an emergency. 30 minutes is very generous, it usually happens within minutes.
There’s obviously a bit of both but the lack of explanation afterwards is a bigger issue. If someone has just had an emergency c section under these circumstances then there should be a debrief as standard and it should happen as early as possible. Likely the women will need some help with PTSD and may have serious injuries
You sound like the nurses i worked with who still defended Doctor Neary when he was in the headlines
I'd imagine the overall priority for the doctors and nurses is to have a safe delivery for mom and baby. We didn't have a birth plan but the impression we got was they tended to interfere with everything.
That’s it. Most of these traumatic births are emergency life and death situations where a birth plan means nothing One of the women wrote that she wasn’t warned that this might happen because staff were trying to keep things calm and not worry her. That’s valid. Maybe there needs to be a little more discussion around “worst case scenarios” so that people will at least understand what’s happening when there’s no time for doctors to be nice and explain. But even then a lot of women would refuse that module because they won’t engage with any negatives I do wonder would it help if they understood that if something goes wrong the doctors and nurses will do everything in their power and more to help you and the baby. But if that happens the doctors have to focus on doing medical things very quickly without time to explain and be kind. The kindness in this is the fact that they’re doing everything possible to save your life and the baby. But when you’re used to people fawning over you because you’re pregnant this change of atmosphere is of course horrendously upsetting at a time when you’re very, very vulnerable Re the consent thing: I would say that the lady who said she didn’t consent actually did consent. Because she definitely must have signed something saying she’d accept medical intervention in an emergency. Her life or that of her baby was most likely in grave danger at the point she felt she didn’t consent and she would have consented to having her life saved
All the interventions should be covered in maternity education imo. So much time is wasted teaching about how to bathe and swaddle a baby when it’s much more pertinent that women know the proceedures and can be reassured when the hospital are following them
This isn't women complaining because they didn't get the right essential oil as they stated in their birth plan. Why is it so common to dismiss legitimate complaints and ignore women's experiences...? It's not a matter of niceness or kindness to fail to communicate with patients, fail to obtain informed consent and to not listen to their concerns. It's professional misconduct.
That doesn't excuse the lack of empathy. It's not actually more work to ensure a patient is decently informed. It's because we used to select autistic savants as doctors when there was the points race, without filtering for ability to work with patients.
It also doesn't mention the countless incidents of women presenting to hospitals with concerns that are commonly dismissed. Women know when something is wrong with their bodies and baby, but when presenting these concerns, they meet dismissal. This then could result in second trimester loss or still birth. From my own experience, on my third pregnancy, after having 2 miscarriages, which I disclosed, at twelve weeks, I had a threatened miscarriage, no interventions were applied to me, just in case of loss, Baby stuck and I demanded a stitch. They refused, "you're not severe enough", at 20 weeks I began leaking fluid, I called them " your not high risk" and expected to go from 13 weeks to 32 weeks without a scan. Sure enough, baby was born a week later but looked very big for a 21 weeker. Ultimately, my baby was left to die with again no intervention. Even had some nurse tell me to stop taking gas and air because I was using it alot, but was offered no other pain relief. Then was put back on the same ward with all these pregnant ladies. While my baby was laying in a cuddle cot. Again some nurses were lovely, one came in and Said that my crying was disrupting other patients. Eventually a doctor came around and told me that I should have been given a stitch straight after the first bleed. This was 3 years ago, don't imagine it's gotten better
You deserved better.
I did, like so many others.
I am so sorry this happened to you and absolutely horrified at the standard of care described here. Frankly, everyone I know who has given birth in the last 5 years has had a horror story about the experience - chaotic environments that don't allow for privacy or dignity, terrible communication between staff and parents, dismissive attitudes towards pain management, lack of consent sought for just about anything, the list goes on. There are hospitals in this country that are constantly under litigation and trying to quell lawsuits because of malpractice and negligence. It's completely unacceptable.
Thank you x
Was at the materinity ward yesterday, and there was a lady getting induced with the gel. She was on a 3 third and was in pain. When the staff was applying the gel, she was shouting stop consistently and crying, staff didn't stop and kept on going, then the lady cried some more and just had to bear with it. That is life......
It’s not though. When someone withdraws consent they’re supposed to stop. They might need to go again but they should have stopped that and discussed the implications with her. Or looked at pain relief to ease her pain whilst they were applying the gel. It’s not ok to keep going.