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BigDrummerGorilla

That place is still derelict? They must be 20 years in that state now. If I recall correctly (long time since I read about it), I think the O’Callaghan family owned those houses and had planned a commercial development there, but were denied demolition permission due to squatters. No. 11 was vested in Dublin City Council last August and the remainder is on the Derelict Sites Register. It’s a shame, it’s a prime location located just beside Trinity, Merrion Square…the entirety of Dublin 2. Tangentially related, but there is dereliction and lack of upkeep not just here, but across the city and particularly historical properties. Mam grew up in a historical house abroad. If you wished to own a historical house within a defined city area, you had to look after it or face fines. We actually have some of the finest Georgian residential architecture here and it should be looked after.


dubviber

Current planning application is from Gold Run Properties, a company in which members of the O'Callaghan family are directors: [https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/firm-linked-to-noel-ocallaghans-family-firm-plans-87-city-apartments/42337275.html](https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/firm-linked-to-noel-ocallaghans-family-firm-plans-87-city-apartments/42337275.html)


dubviber

A little more digging revealed that 11 Bass Place was subject to an agreement between Gold Run and DCC earlier this year whereby it and another piece of land changed hands in exchange for the withdrawal of a property claim by Goild Run on an adjacent site DCC want to develop plus an apartment. [https://councilmeetings.dublincity.ie/documents/s44300/Jan-%20Disposal%20of%20lands%2011%20Bass%20Place%20and%20Plots%20to%20the%20rear%20of%20Fenian%20St%20with%20Gold%20Run%20Properties%20Ltd.pdf](https://councilmeetings.dublincity.ie/documents/s44300/Jan-%20Disposal%20of%20lands%2011%20Bass%20Place%20and%20Plots%20to%20the%20rear%20of%20Fenian%20St%20with%20Gold%20Run%20Properties%20Ltd.pdf) I'd love to hear the opinion of a property lawyer on this deal, not because I think it's dodgy, but rather my understanding is that in the past DCC have done exchanges that would have been seen as commercially stupid.


recklessMG

I'd love to see one of these 'Gonna Get Things Done' newly-elected right-wing councilors try to steer a Dublin developer on their derelict buildings... and find themselves up to their hole in litigation five minutes later. These fuckers have \*no\* interest in the common good.


dubviber

The laneway where asylum seekers were sleeping is just around the corner on Sandwith St. Racist scumbags were able to mobilise a crowd, including some locals, to harass them, whereas widescale dereliction in the area and the real estate machinations... crickets. These bullies are always the same: strong with the weak, weak with the strong.


SaladLimp2267

Didn't Malachy Steenson fall Asleep in a recent council meeting ? They're useless , elected on a single issue "immigration" that councils have no control over


caisdara

As a property lawyer, commercial concerns are best addressed by valuers. In general, it's impossible to know how much land is worth without knowing how strong somebody's title is. The same house isn't worth the same money if you're comparing clear title to a weak one.


B_M____C

Without this agreement DCC’s planned development was deemed to be financially unviable. DCC now not only get to continue with the planned development consisting of 33 units but also have agreed to be gifted a turnkey apartment at Gold Run’s planned development and considering the market price for 1-beds in Dublin City start at €475k I think it’s a very favourable agreement for the Council.


dubviber

Yes, I read that in the document. And I'd stress that i don't have a problem with the fact that Gold Run are going to build apartments, I just wish they have done it long ago. But I'm a bit sceptical about commercial negotiations between commercial groups and the public authorities. My feeling is that the latter tend to be seriously outgunned. That suspicion has nothing particular to do with the Bass Place/Andrews Court situation, I just wondered if anyone had a view on it based on the details available and referenced in the document above. I wonder how much use of external legal and valuation services DCC make in these cases, or if it's mostly done by in-house lawyers who may be overworked and probably relatively underpaid. If that is the case conflicts may sometimes be put to bed regardless of whether the outcome is optimal. I don't know, 'just asking questions'...


CCTV_NUT

I worked in the councils 20 years ago, not in housing, but other departments, in general when the cost or value of a project was of a certain level you had to get consultants in to ensure value for money and you didn't fall foul of the auditor general. Even with consultants you can hit huge unexpected issues, while civil servants don't get fired all that often they won't get promoted if they are known for "xyz" black hole. Very easy in councils to kill your career. So they tend to make sure they have cover. Same applies to the Deputy Council Managers, they really cover their ass to the point that they will even block innovation for fear of a black hole event.


Coolab00la

Unfortunately dereliction is all too common right across our country. At the end of the day someone somewhere owns this but has literally zero incentive to improve the area because the current tax code rewards people for engaging in property speculation. Its far cheaper for the owner to do nothing with the property and sit on it whilst watching the value rise. If you want to remedy the situation you'd need to introduce a Land Value Tax like they have in a number of other countries like Singapore, Taiwan and Denmark etc.


sheller85

Is there not a vacant property tax? Surely if the other commenter is right in saying those properties, like many others around Dublin (city and county) which have been in such states for multiple years, then the owners are facing some sort of penalties? Genuinely asking as there is so many places like this near me


Thunderirl23

There is, however the Vacant Property Tax is simply 3x the Local Property Tax which could be as low as 270e a year.


sheller85

Ah right, seems pointless in many of these cases especially further out of the City where the properties are bigger, one might be forgiven for assuming owners of such properties are unfazed by such relatively small charges. Thank you!


RunParking3333

>because the current tax code rewards people for engaging in property speculation according to this subreddit the problem is the landlords and if we could just make sure noone rents out anything everything would be great.


SkateMMA

The O Callaghans own a lot of that area, including 3 hotels just around the corner and a fancy build to let apartment block, don’t they have enough 🤣


c0mpliant

The problem with the historical buildings is they're something of a nightmare to renovate. You are very restricted to keep anything on the exterior to the same as it currently is, which is probably not available off the shelf. Then things like windows sometimes can't be replaced with modern multi glazed options, so they're not as effective from a noise insulation or heat retention side of things. There have been cases where people buy a historical building thinking that they can afford to renovate it, only get partially through the process and find themselves in a planning battle to make the changes they want and are finding preservation objections from both the council and the public or that costs have ballooned beyond what they afford.


anarchaeologie

I do not think this is *entirely* true, I work for a company in the heritage sector and I have seen Georgian houses on the register of protected structures done up with modern double-glazed windows made in a sympathetic sash style and recieve grants for repairing a historic building for said windows. Are there a lot of rules around protectef structures? Sure, but I think the main way to bring them up to standard is more and better grants not less protection


c0mpliant

My understanding of it comes down to the local authority and how sound they are. In the same way that applying for planning permission one year might give you a different answer than the year before or the year after. Double glazing can be easier to get permission for than triple glazing because its smaller. Even with the grants the expense is most likely way higher than normal, the grants make it easier but like retrofitting your non-protected house, the grants don't need you having huge funds available.


Fyrbyk

They absolutely were not denied demolition by the squatters. They were denied demolition cos they pulled a fast one on DCC, then after 10+years some squatters moved in. Lol.


eggsbenedict17

Sandwith place is in an awful state too, crazy how it's so central and nothing has been done with it.


Dapper-Lab-9285

> We actually have some of the finest Georgian residential architecture here and it should be looked after. We should be razing the lot of these properties build on wealth from slavery and start building modern high density developments in the city, instead we are building massive apartment blocks at the end of transit systems that are already at capacity. We are destroying our countryside by going up the mountains and spreading Dublin into the surrounding farm land to protect a skyline build on misery.


GendosBeard

Dublin doesn't have a skyline, it has a Qashqai that it parks on the footpath.


fedupofbrick

Soon to be demolished and turned into 3 blocks of flats


9ONK

87 apartments, cafe and gym. 8-10 stories over basement.


Maester_Bates

That is exactly what Dublin needs. It's how we live on the continent. I hope they put parking in the basement.


micosoft

And this is it. Converting low density housing in the city centre to high density is worth the delay. This projects take time to plan, fund and find the construction workers to build.


DeltronZLB

This site is in the heart of the city, there's no need for parking here.


Zephyra_of_Carim

Less need certainly, but there are still good reasons a person might need to leave the city on a regular basis.


CheraDukatZakalwe

I don't think that's most of the people who would live there.


MouseJiggler

I don't think you get to decide for others what they do and don't need.


CheraDukatZakalwe

Parking minimums kill density by making apartments building far more complex and far more expensive. You either have to force people to dig deep in order to build underground, or else increase the size of each site per development to accommodate the empty space needed for car parks. Both of these are expensive options.


MouseJiggler

The idea of density is not above what people need and want.


CheraDukatZakalwe

People want houses to live in. They also want good public transport. Good public transport at affordable prices requires density. Requiring parking spaces is counterproductive as it forces lower density, which makes public transport less good.


DeltronZLB

If people don't want density then the city centre isn't for them. There's plenty of housing estates to live in if they prefer low density.


unsureguy2015

If they need a car space, they can choose a house or apartment with one. It is not that hard.


BAZLOCO

No parking - based upon the originally submitted plans 


9ONK

>A total of 20 car parking spaces, 2 motorbike spaces and 198 cycle parking spaces (comprising 142 long stay spaces in basement of Block 1; 10 long-stay spaces in Block 3; with 44 short-stay spaces and 2 cargo bike spaces in the public realm) is provided on site. City center apartments do not need one car parking space per unit.


MouseJiggler

They need AT LEAST one parking space per unit. Luddites.


ZealousidealFloor2

Surely wanting the parking space per unit is the Luddite response? Loads of people do not need parking spaces in the city centre, myself for example, no need to have a space per unit if we can provide more apartments without them or cheaper apartments.


johnydarko

You can rent it out if you don't need it, you'd make a small fortune (a safe parking space privately rented near the city center would be 4-5k a year easily)


ZealousidealFloor2

I don’t know if building spaces just so people can rent them out is the best use of space if it is quicker and cheaper to just build with less spaces.


wasabi_daddy

Not even close to those figures


unsureguy2015

If you own a car in that area, you need a psychological assessment. Why would you own a car in an area that everything is walkable or you can cycle? If you need a car, live in the suburbs. There are tons of apartments in Dublin where tenants don't use the car space in the basement and it is rented to office workers. Building more car spaces just encourages more cars...


SaladLimp2267

I wouldn't hold my breath, I saw a new development in stillorgan that's a mixture of 14 houses and about 30 or so apartments and there's barely been 1 parking space for each of the houses provided and nothing for the apartment s it seems , the new trend for development s is providing the bare minimum of parking forcing people into public transport


CheraDukatZakalwe

If they're in the very centre of the city, why would they need parking?


Maester_Bates

Because cars can be used for more than just commuting.


CheraDukatZakalwe

Most people living in a city centre area don't need a car. Some do, and there are car parking spaces available for those people elsewhere. Requiring car parking spaces for apartments in a city centre is what kills construction of apartments, by multiplying complexity and costs. Insisting on car parking spaces, either on-street or underground, is incredibly counterproductive when it comes to increasing density, and decreasing density is what worsens active and public transport.


longhairedfreakyppl

Also, many workplaces are not in the city centre


mother_a_god

Great to hear


High_Flyer87

That would be absolutely fecking perfect !


BenderRodriguez14

As someone who whinges and moans non stop about the low density sprawl or Dublin and all the issues it brings, as well as our lack of anything resembling ling term thinking when it comes to property and infrastructure, that is absolutely great news! 


A-Hind-D

That sounds great


TheRealNullPy

All the units owned by landlord companies acting in a cartel fashion and deepening the housing crisis. Business as usual.


9ONK

Better leave it as a derelict terrace then.


TheRealNullPy

Nope. Better to develop house and protect the society against predatory practices from landlord companies. Otherwise, the housing crisis won't get much better.


CheraDukatZakalwe

Lol


denismcd92

A far better use of the space


AbsolutelyDireWolf

Which is what's needed. We desperately need a higher concentration of apartment rentals in the city centre. Not to mention how damned expensive it is to make a derelict property livable to modern standards. We bought a house in need of work and wasn't derelict, but had no central heating, just fireplaces. The wiring was illegal since the 70s. The roof needed to be repaired and insulated. We tackled it 8 years ago and it still cost over 100k to do - again, this house wasn't derelict, it was inhavited but neglected.


ultratunaman

Please do so. You want to solve housing, build housing.


Franz_Werfel

Planning reference 3861/24


Jaded_Variation9111

It’s progress, I guess. At least O’Callaghan’s didn’t illegally demolish these over a bank holiday weekend. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/pressure-grows-for-action-over-demolition-of-dublin-garage-1.197977


Franz_Werfel

I love that they were forced to rebuild it: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/archer-s-garage-rebuilt-after-razing-1.1152577


yop_mayo

Irish people are like the guy from the meme with 2 buttons. “Complain about housing shortage / complain about housing.”


dubviber

I was wondering if it's a private developer, the answer is yes it is.


ThatGuy98_

You say that like it's a bad thing? Ciry centre residential dwellings have to be compact. Can't have bungalows in a city centre and complain about a housing crisis ffs.


fedupofbrick

Where did I say it was a bad thing? I just said they're soon to be demolished


TheRealNullPy

I think that the criticism is more related with the fact that those units will belong to a landlord company that will act in a cartel fashion, keeping people locked in a life of tenancy, with constant financial pressure of abusive prices. There is almost no chace of a regular person to put their hands in one of those units. The housing crisis is not only cause by the lack of stock, but also by abusive market practices making houses less affordable. I agree with you that any new stock of houses is a good thing at this stage.


unsureguy2015

If you think landlords are acting like a cartel, you have no understanding of economics. It is hard for a market with a handful of players to act like a cartel, never mind a market where there are hundreds of thousands of landlords. >There is almost no chace of a regular person to put their hands in one of those units And? All of the new luxury rental apartments in Dublin is resulting in Dublin having the lowest rate of rental increases in the country. Just because you can't afford an apartment doesn't mean someone else can't and if that person can't find a luxury apartment in Dublin 2, they will rent a shithole of one in Dublin 7. A shithole of an apartment that a 'regular person' could put their hands on...


TheRealNullPy

Please, educate me about economics. Educate me how the players of a market in deeply need of offer will not take advantage of it, being predatory to the society. A cartel exists no matter the number of players. Having high concentration of market share in the hands of few players which also have strong political influence is enough. Netherlands has limits to units purchased by those companies in every new development. In such scenario, we need government actions to balance the game again. When I said "regular person" I mean any person at all. It doesn't matter if you have money or not. You won't be able to buy one of those units because those predatory landlord companies will buy all of them.


vanKlompf

> Having high concentration of market share in the hands of few players But there is no such thing on rental market in Dublin. There is no high concentration at all. 


TheRealNullPy

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-ten-biggest-landlords-now-own-17000-homes/41339550.html


vanKlompf

So 10 biggest landlords have less than 1% of housing stock? Yeah. Pretty much what I said. 


TheRealNullPy

You keep taking the housing crisis and rental pressure out of your considerations. 1% of houses in a situation like the current one is very significant.


vanKlompf

No it’s not. You can’t steer market having 1% of it. Not to say having 0.1%. You could divide those “big” landlords over 100 smaller and absolutely nothing would change. 


gamberro

When can we expect that to happen?


fedupofbrick

Planning permission should e granted in mid july. Tenders probably going out soon for it. Expect demolition in autumn and finished late next year. One of the building is 8 floors going in so a bit of work involved


gamberro

Denser developments like that can't come soon enough.


nalcoh

Are you saying this as if that's a bad thing?


fedupofbrick

How on earth did you read that and come to that conclusion?


40winksbandana

Which will cost 6 grand a month and will be paid into offshore bank accounts


Historical-Hat8326

Whole floors of boarded up apartments in the flats around there too. It's a fucking disgrace.


dubviber

I guess you're referring to the low-rise block on the corner of Fenian and Sandwith Street? I've been down there recently. Does anyone know what DCC have planned for the site? They could certainly go higher density, but they need to get on with it.


Historical-Hat8326

Yes and not just those ones. A lot of the council flats in that part of D2 are blocked. No clue what DCCs plans are tbh. It does feel, however, while there is a push to rebuild communities in the city centre, it is just lip service.


micosoft

But this is it. DCC don't want to replicate the mistakes of the past. I get we have a bunch of people demanding a state building company to create Ballymun/Jobstown II but most state planners want to build proper mixed communities and not sink estates/tower blocks.


Yuphrum

"dUbLiN iS fUlL" The amount of buildings/sites in this country that are allowed to be derelict and fall into disrepair is infuriating. I wish we had some shining knight to slay the dragon sitting upon his mound of gold that he's hoarding from us


O_gr

Dublin really looks like utter shiet compared to mainland Europe.


UrbanStray

Mainland Europe is a very broad category. Much of Athens looks worse.


SoloWingPixy88

It's pretty easy to find dhitty streets in most cities.


vanKlompf

This is true, and at the same time this street looks pretty usual for Dublin. This is too close to “average inner Dublin street” for my liking. 


O_gr

In the UK, maybe it's comparable. But in the mainland, MANY of the shitty streets get renovated and brought up to speed even if it means demolishing and building new.


SoloWingPixy88

In Paris, in Berlin, in Barcelona it's comparable


O_gr

The metro. population of each of those is at least 3x of metro. Dublin. And there are ACTIVITLY going ahead with renovations. Parts of Berlin are worse of due to its time under the soviets so it still has a long way to go.


TheStoicNihilist

This shit happens everywhere.


Dirtygeebag

I think you are arguing with a troll.


O_gr

It's funny how you call everyone you don't agree with a troll.


Dirtygeebag

Sounds like troll talk to me


Signal_Cut_1162

I’m in Spain atm and passed about 30 streets on my morning walk like this one


weenusdifficulthouse

Plás Bás?


Nkuri37

It’s sad so much in Dublin is just all shut up like this


stellar14

The incompetence of this country is making me want to move everyday.


AlmostOperational

Bass in the place Dublin


dedloq

Dereliction is vandalism and should be severely punished


Key-Lie-364

It was pretty common in Dublin to let sites go derelict to enable larger developments to happen.


WeDoingThisAgainRWe

It’s a common practice in lots of places. “It’s too far gone to be maintained and not safe for use. We’ll have to knock it down and build something else”


Key-Lie-364

Exactly this It's how a lot of Georgian Dublin was pulled down


Ok_Albatross_3284

Good spot to open a few hipster coffee shops?


qwerty_1965

Vape shop, Turkish barber, American sweet shop. Plenty of opportunities for laundering money!


Signal_Cut_1162

You forgot the electric gadget shop that is dotted all over the city centre


vanKlompf

We have too many hipster coffee shops and to little apartments 


Ok_Albatross_3284

Yeah I know, was a joke.


longhairedfreakyppl

Gluck with fitting an apartment into most hipster coffee shops - most of them operate in a space smaller than your average 1 bed apartment. And they employ a number of people, and provide both a service and provide a place to be


vanKlompf

I mean sure. If someone wants to open it, let them. But market seems to be fully saturated. There is not much more money to be made on this market, competition is very strong already. So if someone else wants to build new apartaments - also let them. 


marquess_rostrevor

It's clearly a place for community art.


Infinaris

Street Seems a bit Fishy...


UrbanStray

They need to replace the sign as there's a missing I. But given the low frequency of maintenance it's doubtful they will.


Illustrious-Race-617

It's the bottom half right?


SituationNumerous257

I lived in the first house there about 18 years ago. Was boarded up soon after.


Danny_Mc_71

Jeez, what did you do?


SituationNumerous257

We actually had our front door kicked in at least once a week by teenagers for laughs the last month or so we wwre there. Great place to live for convenience but them little shits ruined the place


Galway1012

Architecturally the red brick houses of Dublin are beautiful. Its a sin that they are allowed to fall into such disrepair.


JourneyThiefer

Same thing is happening in Belfast


Galway1012

Its such a shame. So often they are placed by generic glass office towers/apartment blocks


JourneyThiefer

Or just demolished like in North Street :/ https://maps.app.goo.gl/qn4HuE8MArfoEWMs5?g_st=ic https://maps.app.goo.gl/zzNsFYHo5fHsxnst6?g_st=ic


Galway1012

Being able to look back at the locations from the street imagery years ago is stark


JourneyThiefer

Flip I didn’t even realise that, Jesus Belfast has downgraded so badly


Galway1012

Unfortunately i think a lot of places in Ireland, not just Belfast, have gone the same way


JourneyThiefer

Yea Ireland as a whole seems to place very little on making places look architecturally nice


DelGurifisu

I hate it here.


stellar14

Yeah that should be the DCC slogan.


Signal_Cut_1162

You’re free to leave


PDP-11

Those houses all have alarms from the same company. Someone is protecting them and keeping squatters out.


damian314159

https://www.instagram.com/p/CEmDzzfn9A5/?igsh=ZndjZ2FyZjhhMjh4


Charming-Tension212

Charge the owner 10% of value for the area per annum in tax, won't be empty for long then. If there is a dispute over ownership, charge each of the parties an equal cut of the 10%.


thisistheSnydercut

More of a street half full guy myself


MaelduinTamhlacht

Until they make the dereliction tax a serious proportion of the price - and **give it to Revenue to collect** - this will go on.


Deep-Pension-1841

Classic Dublin


Traolach1888

Ahhh, That’s Bass (street)!


senditup

Flatten it and build fifteen-storey apartments.


senditup

Flatten it and build fifteen-storey apartments.


CampaignSwimming6276

Lived in Ireland in the 1970s. What the hell happened?


Foxblood

Unusual to see a street light not on a pole.


MrMiracle27

Surprised it hasn't been claimed for refugees yet.


Fyrbyk

It was a few years ago


MrMiracle27

Has it since been occupied?


Fyrbyk

It was occupied during the pandemic by some punks with dogs. They played nice music all day and made a bunch of community gardens around the area. They were run out after a year or two.


MrMiracle27

That's a pity. Sounds cool.


DJLeapCard

What do you think?