Another thing which has annoyed me is the tipping prompt in certain shops. I was in a bakery last weekend and ordered a loaf of bread. The tips were listed before I could tap +10%/+20% etc. I had to choose no tip before paying. It's a loaf of bread being placed in a paper bag
Possibly Bread 41. They have that white tablet POS machine that brings up various %s with "no tip" hidden at the bottom. Whatever if you're sitting in with a coffee and bun, but not to buy a loaf and leave.
To be fair, this is usually the result of the software applications being used and not the business itself. There are very few companies that make these Point of Sale (PoS) systems, and they are heavily US centric.
Yes, the business usually has the ability to request that it be customised to remove the "feature", but they'd have to know in advance to do it. I'd say most just don't realise or don't think about it until it's there. At that point it just gets left on.
I'm familiar with the POS system they use, it's a Clover system and the option to add tip at check out can be removed easily. I think you're being very kind
I work for an Irish made POS system. I can guarantee you that any tip option is enabled by request of the customer as 60% of credit card machines in the country come from England called Opayo / Sagepay.
Ofcourse you have the smaller EPOS systems out there, but from experience this tipping feature is a request by the customer to be enabled.
Nah, they know alright. My local small chain coffee shop recently got taken over by a larger chain. Prices have gone up and I’ve noticed the quality of coffee has now gone down. But what really gets my goat is the new cup at the till that has suddenly appeared, and the official sign saying all tips go straight to the staff.
Yes the Tip is a feature in the software but there are different versions/setting for each country.
Plus the store has access to set the default %'s and to disable that feature.
I was thinking this. My two local pubs have this, but I cannot recall a single time the waitress didn't immediately bypass it before handing me the machine (and I'm not regular enough in either to be a known face in case of a "don't ask regulars" type of policy).
The business _always_ has the ability to remove the prompt, they just choose not to.
I've seen this on the Pablo Picante terminal on Clarendon Street, and had to really press hard to get it to accept the "no, feck off with your tip, now!" option. I'm not tipping unless I'm getting table service, in which case, yes, I'm absolutely tipping unless the service is shite. If you're just putting my food in a bag and ringing it through on a till? Nope!
Green Hen in Dublin City centre did it to me at lunch time for two people recently. Went with husband. Didn't mention it either. Was snuck in on the bill and when the machine was passed over I still had to skip the tip option.
Green Hen do this.
Market Bar have the same practice.
Worse of all is The Ivy. Between management pocketing wait-staff's tips, to firing others for unionising, they can get fucked.
People need to push back against this absolute bullshit. Everyone should request it be removed because it is underhanded. They did it in London everywhere I went and every single time I had to ask them to remove the charge because it is up to me whether I want to tip or not - it is not up to them to assume I am happy to do so.
This isn't America and I absolutely detest that their culture is reaching across into Europe.
Ask for them to remove it and, if you want to leave a tip, make sure it's on your terms and not theirs.
Once again, why not name the business? I don't understand why people don't. You're not going to get sued, and it would help the rest of us to know where to avoid. No, auto service charge for two people is not good.
A service charge should never be automatically added to your bill in Ireland.
Call them out on it, don't give them a tip and tell them they have lost your business! The absolute fu$kin cheek of them!!!
Genuine question.
What about the restaurants that state bookings over x amount of people will incur a service fee of y %
Are all service charges fully optional for the consumer?
It's much more cost-effective for a restaurant to serve couples and foursomes than larger groups. Large groups require more staff than the equivalent number of covers made up of small groups.
Basically they stay longer. A full table will chat for ages. It's a whole night event. If you had 4 double tables you could possibly have two or three times as many people pass through in the same time.
With large tables, everything takes longer, drink orders, door orders, time to finish starters mains etc.
It takes time to coordinate everything so the larger group can be served as efficiently as smaller groups. In a hypothetical restaurant with one chef and one server staffing it, it's quite easy to have multiple tables on the go at once. One being served, one being plated, one resting, some cooking, etc. Once a large group needs to fire, it's very difficult for that one chef to have time to look after it and keep the next orders going. The solution is to have more staff. It's also more likely that large groups will have a number of different dishes on order, again making it more difficult for one chef. Even from the moment they sit down, the server will inevitably be occupied, and other customers' experience may not be up to standard.
Fewer staff are required to serve multiple small groups than larger groups.it is more cost effective if the number of covers is the same. You ever wonder why Valentines Day is much easier than Mothers Day?
Fewer staff is not the case, you will still have the same ammount of staff working in the restaurant.
They get the menus at the same time, drinks order taken at the same time, food order at the same time, food goes out at the same time and table gets cleared at the same time.
There's alot more work when they are all tables of 2 with everyone menus, food and drinks orders and food service and clearing are all at different times,
When the food is going out to a group you usually ask 1 or 2 others to help bring the food out so its all arriving at the same time but apart from that 1 person can take care of the whole group easily!
Nope. Staggered orders make for a more efficient service. Imagine a restaurant with one chef and one server. 10 tables of 2 is quite easy to serve well. 10 mins for starters, another 15 for mains. A single chef doing a table of 20 will struggle to serve it as efficiently. The server will also struggle. The solution is more staff. That's not to say restaurants don't want large groups. Bums on seats are what's most important.
Most restaurants have more than one chef and one server! There's different sections in the majority of kitchens making them capable of dealing with this demand. I've worked doing it myself for many years, a group is a hell of alot easier
Of course they staff appropriately to deal with large groups. If a restaurant refuses to take large groups, yet is fully booked, then they don't have to staff to deal with large groups. Therefore, fewer staff. The example I gave you scales. If you've worked in the industry, you'll know that blasting through 2s and 4s is often achievable for one chef. It becomes less so the bigger the group, so others are needed. That is literally more staff needed for large groups. The same is true for servers.
Its Americanisms slipping into EU cultures. However in America if I got this right, a service charge is automatically applied to large groups. But this will be stated somewhere. In Ireland, to pay 12.5% service charge for a table of 2, is just skulduggery and greed. So tell them to go fuck themselves, and remove that nonsense from your bill. They can fuck right off. They can tell me up front they are going to add a service charge, so I can then also immediately walk out the door.
> in America if I got this right, a service charge is automatically applied to large groups.
This is the norm in Ireland as well, would be printed on the menu.
A service charge automatically applied to a table of two is nuts.
It's not just Temple Bar, it's any proper restaurant. Like not pub grub and not casual food maybe, but any proper, sit-down, table service restaurant that isn't a burger joint has had "Service Charge included for parties of six or more" for donkey's years.
So does that mean that anywhere else besides south of the red cow is temple bar? Just because you don't see it where you are doesn't mean it's not the case in loads of places in town
American staff don’t get hourly minimum wages like Irish staff do, and the tips are based on a percentage pre tax, not the total that includes the tax. I would
Not pay a service charge on two people and I would not pay one on a total that includes the VAT. There is no justification for this in Europe.
They do. Federal minimum wage for tipped workers is $2.13 per hour and $7.25 for non-tipped workers. Each state (and even county) has differences (mostly) over and above that. But there are a few states that have the federal minimum.
Service charges really should be banned in Europe.
??? Yes there is. It also varies by state as I said. e.g. California has $16 irrespective of the job being tipped or non-tipped. Connecticut is ~$15 non tipped/$6 tipped. 30 states have minimums higher than federal.
First of all, as a principle, I never leave tip unless service is exceptionally good. In my opinion prices in restaurants are high enough to cover decent salary for people working.
Second there is a question of legality of adding stuff to your bill without you asking for it.
Taking this into account I do not have a problem asking why it is added on my bill without me asking and requesting it to be removed.
I agree, sometimes I leave a tip when service is exceptionally good or if I have some extra cash. I’m actually going to the same restaurant next week, because I want to try the steak. If they will apply service charge, this time I will ask to remove it.
I generally always leave a tip, if the service is bad I just won’t go back. With the gratuity added to the bill I just hate the fact I’m not giving a tip, instead they are taking a tip from me.
Just always have, the extra few bob isn’t going to break me. And no I dont tip a cashier or bus driver, most people in the entire world don’t tip these people but most do tip waiting staff, you don’t have to and that’s fine, I do, it’s not life changing money but it’s just a little something.
Few days ago was in a cafe.
Bill came with an 8% service charge. Coffee was nice so didn't care.
Went up to pay and when they turned the card machine around I was presented with a load of options to leave a tip on top of the cost of the bill with the already added service charge.
Needless to say I selected no tip...
Chancers.
If you are feeling passive-agressive, next time act the thick and press the the red cancel button instead of zero tip. They will have the hassle of setting up the transaction again.
I am almost positive this is illegal under a recent enough EU law for table sizes less then 4 if you challenge then you can tell them to feck off. Further more you can say you will take it to the small claims court as hidden charges especially if it's not disclosed anywhere.
Yes, but only if they advise you in advance of the charge, how much it will be (or how it will be calculated), otherwise you can report them to the Ccpc.
Please share where this was because whenever it happens to me it puts me in such an awful mood and I too have social anxiety so I hate pulling them up on it (though I have done it)
This is coming in places. Couple months ago in a hotel bar in Dublin I looked for a pint at the counter and the cunts put a 12.5% service. I was raging
Yeah got hit with that in a bar in Saggart and the waiting staff took our order and brought our food, they spent a total of around 2minutes at our table, I went to the bar to get our drinks myself and when we got the bill we automatically got hit with a 12% gratuity charge.
What does their opinion of you matter, *especially* if you're not going to go back?
Does it bother you *that* much what strangers think of you?
The fewer people question it, the more it'll happen.
What was the name of the place?
I hate these *pointless* posts.
"This happened to me" or "I was overcharged, but I'm not going to tell you where so you can avoid it happening to you"!!!!
I mean c'mon!
If they're charging the fee then obviously they don't expect it to be a big secret.
Why not tell people who and where it was?
I'd ask for it to be removed, and if I found the service to be really good, I'd leave a tip. I'd also query the application of a service charge for a table for two. It's often on menus that it will be applied for larger groups alright.
Don’t eat out much but have specifically asked twice in last 2 months in Dublin for the service charge to be removed - absolute piss take that they add it automatically. First restaurant told us it was added and very timidly told us we could remove it if we would like (which we did). Second restaurant (which was a BUFFET and SELF SERVICE) added charge to bill without saying a single thing and when I asked to have it removed they also acted very awkwardly and hesitatingly. Weird stuff
I would refuse to pay it, I am all for leaving a tip for good service, but that's at my discretion, I would demand they take it off the bill, give no tip and leave a review on Google and trip adviser to make other people aware
Tips are NOT mandatory in Ireland and putting a service charge on the bill is pretty brazen. I’ve worked in the service industry in very busy restaurants in Dublin and we never did that except for large groups and even then you couldn’t enforce it. Tips are not part of the salary here they’re merely a nice little bonus.
I got in trouble when I worked as a waitress for refusing to add the 12% tip to peoples bills if their table was more than 6 people. I thought it was very unfair because you could have a table of 4 or 5 right who were more demanding or more work right beside a 6 top that were easy to serve and nice.
People should be allowed to choose.
I am new to Ireland and thought this was the norm! Felt weird being an introvert and couldn’t say anything. I am gonna try and question it the next time. I also so wrong calculations on a POS tip calculator (I did question this and they told me to put in a custom amount. They promised to get it fixed and apologised profusely)
It's been common in some places in Ireland for 20 years.
My standard response has always been to pay exactly the amount including service charge (which in those situations is nearly always less than I would have tipped).
And then stop going there.
It's the law to display this
>Since 1 December 2022, employers must clearly display their policy on how cash and card tips, gratuities and service charges are distributed.
>The tips and gratuities notice must clearly state:
>Whether or not tips or gratuities are distributed to and among staff
>The way they are distributed and the amounts distributed
>Whether or not service charges (or any portion of them) are distributed and if so, how they are distributed and the amounts distributed
Who do you report the issue to?
Or is it another piece of lip-service legislation that has no agency assigned to enforce it? We see what you are doing Fine Gael (and yes, this is straight of their "we're business friendly while looking like we support the average person" playbook)!! 😬
I don’t tip anymore. The minimum wage is 12.70. No need for tips. It’s an American practice. Why tip someone for bringing you food but not for bringing you a product? Why not tip the Amazon delivery drivers? They deliver the product to your door. It’s ridiculous we tip at all
I agree with you. Restaurants are now putting down a price increase describing it a BS service charge.
You could ask about it but I suspect that would be awkward.
You will probably have to question the issue before you order. To be honest I personally wouldn't want my food prepared by someone who is pissed off with me. I used to do restaurant work when I was younger and I have seen some dodgy shit!
The obvious solution is avoid that restaurant and any other that have ridiculous charges.
It's a cliché but people need to vote with their feet and their wallet.
>You could ask about it but I suspect that would be awkward.
That's exactly what they're banking on. The majority of people will feel rude or awkward or cheap in front of their people to ask about it.
I have seen it written on the menu, only the one you get when you sit down, which is the same form. Who's going to decide to get up and leave when they see that.
Shower of cunts. Hate that shit. Eating out is gougey enough as it is.
I would question it then pay in cash the correct amount tipping is a childish idiotic American idea that instills the belief that you should get extra for just doing your goddamn job(go on any of the server life or waiting subs they are batshit insane) and it's literally infecting so many businesses outside of the service industry in ireland. I over heard a conversation at work where two lads were asking each other what's appropriate to tip their barber and tattoo artist. Hair lad pays 40 euro and 20 tip for the same fucking haircut everyone has. Tattoo lad tips over a 150 each session like wtf is wrong with people y'all making shit more expensive showing companies y'all stupidly fork over cash for nothing.
My dad is retired but worked his whole life in the hotel/restaurant business. As soon as he sees the service charge on the menu he'll ask the staff if they receive the money, if they say no he tells them he won't be paying it.
Owners or management. Some pretend it’s used for the “staff Christmas party” but it would cover like 30 Christmas parties. The Ivy in Dublin City centre got in trouble for not giving it to staff
As long as I remember there was a sit in vs take out price difference. Wasn't it that they moved that sit in charge to service charge ? I'm not justifying it, I just remember there was always some kind of price increase between sit-in and take out.
Unless it was explicitly and clear advertised around the restaurant or on then menu I would guess it's illegal, not a solicitor so don't quote me. You can try report it to the CCPC, did you keep the receipt?
I have often discussed that with friends and colleagues. Some are ok with it but the vast majority of us just don't ever darken the door of an establishment that charges a service charge ever again.
Putting on an automatic charge and handing it to me removed any tip I was going to give just for the cheek of it.
I've seen a number of similar posts but I never see people name the place... Is there a reason people don't name and shame? How can we know where to avoid?
You may be introverted. But that was you being shy/anxious. Introversion has nothing to do with social anxiety or being conflict averse.
Also, I would 100% get it removed and I'd enjoy never going back.
Employers are banned from describing a mandatory service charge applied to a customer's bill as a 'service charge' unless the payment is treated by the employer in the same way as electronic tips or gratuities. This means that mandatory service charges can only be added to a bill if the money goes to employees.
My friend and I went to Boef and Frites and got charged a service charge too, which worked out about 10 euro. We only realised when we left and looked at the teceipt. I had never seen this happen for a table of 2, and it wasn't stated in the menu either.
I work as a waiter in a 5 star hotel, service charge is the biggest load of shit. We never see any of it, it all essentially disappears, its the same with tips left on the card machines. I mean i'm still grateful for it but cash tips are what I actually get, and in your case you can ask the waiter/waitress to remove the service charge from the bill and pay it seperately in cash. It's guaranteed to get to us that way.
I work in restaurants, and though receiving tips is totally normal, I would never even CONSIDER doing this in (including in the upmarket fine dining establishments I've worked with next-level service).
This is so tacky and SO greedy. The fact that it's been upped to 12.5% and not even the standard 10% tip is particularly saucy, but it shouldn't ever be on a table of 2 at all unless disclosed beforehand.
I wouldn't return to this establishment, and I'd email the management and let them know what happened tbh.
I feel like the staff likely applied this charge without the management or owners approving, because that is weird af. Don't accept that kind of behaviour.
An auto-gratuity on tables of 5/6+ is absolutely standard (and clearly stated), but putting it on a table of 2 is so bizarre, and definitely not the norm.
Report that ish for sure.
Just started reading reviews of this restaurant online Google and noticed people mentioning service charge. It’s mandatory 10% service charge even for 1 party! Is that legal?
How are they going to know who you are from posting on here.
Also if they somehow figured out who you are from a post on reddit and cancelled the future event, they are in a bigger mess.
Name.and shame or I would be off the opinion your post is complete bullshit.
This happened to me in a place called Maneki in town when I took my father for some food. I was confused because the number on the bill wasn’t matching up to how much the food was until I saw that the service charge had been added automatically and that we could ask the server to take it off. So I did. It was expensive enough as it is!
I'd ask them to remove it and give the service staff a tip in cash, mainly because I refuse to believe that any restaurant adding a charge via their till system is going to make the effort to ensure staff get all of that money.
It's up to the staff to ensure that they're receiving the service charge. If they're not, they need to make a complaint to the WRC. Every restaurant can have their own system of how they distribute tips, they can have a different distribution system for cash tips however that are usually paid directly to the worker. This will vary from place to place
you are allowed to have it removed. i do it every time as it never goes to the servers. id rather my money go towards the staff that actually do the work rather than the overheads.
it’s not mandatory unless it’s going directly to staff, that’s why im telling you to tell them to remove it. i work in this industry - not in a front facing role. most places that attempt this are doing it to give to management, not to the actual staff. service charges the majority of the time are not distributed amongst staff, yet places will ignore the regulations and lead customers to believe they are. always demand it be removed, no matter if you will tip or not. this way the tip can be handed direct to the server instead of through managements hands.
Name and shame or stop fucking lying.
Posts like this without naming the place is blatant bollocks
You won't name them because you have a wedding event planned with them....
Had this before was in queue to be seated, a couple had gotten their bill and refused to pay the fee as it was a hidden charge. Manager claimed to call the Garda for not paying, couple told them to do it as the couple was going to report them to ccpc anyways. They suddenly dropped it and couple didn’t have to pay it. We decided not to dine there and told the manager it was due to that fee, our group was 20 people so decent loss to them.
I work in a restaurant. Tips are always a nice supplement, but I am fully of the view that they should always be optional and at your own discretion.
Cheap employers not wanting to pay their staff a feasible wage is not something that should be imposed on someone else, especially in such a compulsory manner.
This is common practice in London and I would hate for it to come in here. It’s not normal and you should ask to remove it before it does become the norm (no going back then)
It's not just Dublin, it's everywhere in London now too. Wouldn't be surprised to learn that it's a trend in other cities over here, too, particularly places like Manchester and Liverpool.
With the massive drop in people using cash more places are adding a tip option to the bill as tip jars etc don't really work anymore. Nobody has change. But you should always be asked unless it's clearly listed on the menu.
OK.. 25 years of hospitality work here. Service charges have been around for years, I agree it should be clearly stated on the menu but it doesn't have to be. No server cares if you ask it to be removed, but obviously tips and service charge are much appreciated in a low paying hard working industry so of course minimum wage staff are not advertising the removal as it makes working in the industry actually financially viable. As far as "tips are a new Americanism" chat goes...no..Even 20 years ago in small Town Ireland in a local bar I made decent tips, all those little bits of change you leave and 'have a drink yourself' moments really help minimum wage workers. Yes the new card machines with the first page displaying a tip are annoying, JUST PRESS NO, your server won't care but will very much appreciate if you did leave something. The kid behind the counter didn't set up the software, will they take the chance to try and get a tip rather than skipping that bit before they hand you the machine?..of course they will..you would too.
Another thing which has annoyed me is the tipping prompt in certain shops. I was in a bakery last weekend and ordered a loaf of bread. The tips were listed before I could tap +10%/+20% etc. I had to choose no tip before paying. It's a loaf of bread being placed in a paper bag
Very American
what's the name of the place
Eddie rockets in stillorgan does this
will avoid, thank you 🫡
They sell bread now?
Breddie Rockets
Love it 🤣
Empty pockets.
Possibly Bread 41. They have that white tablet POS machine that brings up various %s with "no tip" hidden at the bottom. Whatever if you're sitting in with a coffee and bun, but not to buy a loaf and leave.
Most cafes or smaller ones do this now. Agreed , it’s awful.
Some of the new point of sales have it built In but that’s no excuse because it can be turned off by the local shop.
To be fair, this is usually the result of the software applications being used and not the business itself. There are very few companies that make these Point of Sale (PoS) systems, and they are heavily US centric. Yes, the business usually has the ability to request that it be customised to remove the "feature", but they'd have to know in advance to do it. I'd say most just don't realise or don't think about it until it's there. At that point it just gets left on.
I'm familiar with the POS system they use, it's a Clover system and the option to add tip at check out can be removed easily. I think you're being very kind
I work for an Irish made POS system. I can guarantee you that any tip option is enabled by request of the customer as 60% of credit card machines in the country come from England called Opayo / Sagepay. Ofcourse you have the smaller EPOS systems out there, but from experience this tipping feature is a request by the customer to be enabled.
That's disappointing to hear. Here I was just trying to be kind and think the best of people. Oh well.
Nah, they know alright. My local small chain coffee shop recently got taken over by a larger chain. Prices have gone up and I’ve noticed the quality of coffee has now gone down. But what really gets my goat is the new cup at the till that has suddenly appeared, and the official sign saying all tips go straight to the staff.
[удалено]
I thought that was why they changed the law, so owners couldn’t take service charges or tips?
I did not know that. Don't like it.
Incorrect.
Yes the Tip is a feature in the software but there are different versions/setting for each country. Plus the store has access to set the default %'s and to disable that feature.
You think these systems don't have an option to easily remove this prompt? If this was an American system, it wouldn't start at 10%.
Nope
I was thinking this. My two local pubs have this, but I cannot recall a single time the waitress didn't immediately bypass it before handing me the machine (and I'm not regular enough in either to be a known face in case of a "don't ask regulars" type of policy).
The business _always_ has the ability to remove the prompt, they just choose not to. I've seen this on the Pablo Picante terminal on Clarendon Street, and had to really press hard to get it to accept the "no, feck off with your tip, now!" option. I'm not tipping unless I'm getting table service, in which case, yes, I'm absolutely tipping unless the service is shite. If you're just putting my food in a bag and ringing it through on a till? Nope!
Ask them do you want a tip? Fucking same the cunt.
For a table of two during lunch? I'd definitely question it. It's a lot more awkward for them than you if you ask the waiter about it.
Name and shame so we can all avoid
Green Hen in Dublin City centre did it to me at lunch time for two people recently. Went with husband. Didn't mention it either. Was snuck in on the bill and when the machine was passed over I still had to skip the tip option.
Green Hen do this. Market Bar have the same practice. Worse of all is The Ivy. Between management pocketing wait-staff's tips, to firing others for unionising, they can get fucked.
The Ivy take 5% of all tips for the owner as well, which I’m not even sure is legal anymore.
This is really what needs to happen
They never do for some reason
She’s explained further down she has a future booking with them and doesn’t want to annoy them. I’d be telling them to get fucked
Ah ffs, can't complain and then go back back again
This exactly.
It's the Irish way. Complain and then return to give them more business, then wonder why nothing ever changes.
That's her choice to continue going, I'd like the heads up so I can avoid or have the charge removed.
Exactly
Please name them so I know not to go there
People need to push back against this absolute bullshit. Everyone should request it be removed because it is underhanded. They did it in London everywhere I went and every single time I had to ask them to remove the charge because it is up to me whether I want to tip or not - it is not up to them to assume I am happy to do so. This isn't America and I absolutely detest that their culture is reaching across into Europe. Ask for them to remove it and, if you want to leave a tip, make sure it's on your terms and not theirs.
Tipping has been common in London at sit down restaurants for decades. I’m surprised you weren’t kicked out.
Why would they kick someone out for refusing to tip? You’re leaving shortly afterwards anyway having paid bill.
Once again, why not name the business? I don't understand why people don't. You're not going to get sued, and it would help the rest of us to know where to avoid. No, auto service charge for two people is not good.
A service charge should never be automatically added to your bill in Ireland. Call them out on it, don't give them a tip and tell them they have lost your business! The absolute fu$kin cheek of them!!!
Genuine question. What about the restaurants that state bookings over x amount of people will incur a service fee of y % Are all service charges fully optional for the consumer?
Thats aload of bullshit too, why should it cost more?? The restaurant is making more money and its less work for staff!!
It's much more cost-effective for a restaurant to serve couples and foursomes than larger groups. Large groups require more staff than the equivalent number of covers made up of small groups.
Why is that?
Basically they stay longer. A full table will chat for ages. It's a whole night event. If you had 4 double tables you could possibly have two or three times as many people pass through in the same time. With large tables, everything takes longer, drink orders, door orders, time to finish starters mains etc.
It takes time to coordinate everything so the larger group can be served as efficiently as smaller groups. In a hypothetical restaurant with one chef and one server staffing it, it's quite easy to have multiple tables on the go at once. One being served, one being plated, one resting, some cooking, etc. Once a large group needs to fire, it's very difficult for that one chef to have time to look after it and keep the next orders going. The solution is to have more staff. It's also more likely that large groups will have a number of different dishes on order, again making it more difficult for one chef. Even from the moment they sit down, the server will inevitably be occupied, and other customers' experience may not be up to standard.
Thats rubbish, god knows I worked in the industry long enough, big groups are much easier to deal with.
Fewer staff are required to serve multiple small groups than larger groups.it is more cost effective if the number of covers is the same. You ever wonder why Valentines Day is much easier than Mothers Day?
Fewer staff is not the case, you will still have the same ammount of staff working in the restaurant. They get the menus at the same time, drinks order taken at the same time, food order at the same time, food goes out at the same time and table gets cleared at the same time. There's alot more work when they are all tables of 2 with everyone menus, food and drinks orders and food service and clearing are all at different times, When the food is going out to a group you usually ask 1 or 2 others to help bring the food out so its all arriving at the same time but apart from that 1 person can take care of the whole group easily!
Nope. Staggered orders make for a more efficient service. Imagine a restaurant with one chef and one server. 10 tables of 2 is quite easy to serve well. 10 mins for starters, another 15 for mains. A single chef doing a table of 20 will struggle to serve it as efficiently. The server will also struggle. The solution is more staff. That's not to say restaurants don't want large groups. Bums on seats are what's most important.
Most restaurants have more than one chef and one server! There's different sections in the majority of kitchens making them capable of dealing with this demand. I've worked doing it myself for many years, a group is a hell of alot easier
Of course they staff appropriately to deal with large groups. If a restaurant refuses to take large groups, yet is fully booked, then they don't have to staff to deal with large groups. Therefore, fewer staff. The example I gave you scales. If you've worked in the industry, you'll know that blasting through 2s and 4s is often achievable for one chef. It becomes less so the bigger the group, so others are needed. That is literally more staff needed for large groups. The same is true for servers.
Its Americanisms slipping into EU cultures. However in America if I got this right, a service charge is automatically applied to large groups. But this will be stated somewhere. In Ireland, to pay 12.5% service charge for a table of 2, is just skulduggery and greed. So tell them to go fuck themselves, and remove that nonsense from your bill. They can fuck right off. They can tell me up front they are going to add a service charge, so I can then also immediately walk out the door.
> in America if I got this right, a service charge is automatically applied to large groups. This is the norm in Ireland as well, would be printed on the menu. A service charge automatically applied to a table of two is nuts.
And for lunch!
It's not the norm in Ireland lad, and nor should it ever become the norm.
It's the norm in every decent restaurant in the city.
It is in Dublin anyway, parties of 6 or more have a 12.5% service charge applied to the bill.
Stop eating in temple bar!
It's not just Temple Bar, it's any proper restaurant. Like not pub grub and not casual food maybe, but any proper, sit-down, table service restaurant that isn't a burger joint has had "Service Charge included for parties of six or more" for donkey's years.
Not south of the red cow I'd say. Certainly not a thing where I am from. Locals wouldn't pay it.
So does that mean that anywhere else besides south of the red cow is temple bar? Just because you don't see it where you are doesn't mean it's not the case in loads of places in town
Majority of restaurants in Dublin at this stage I would say at a service charge for groups over 6 not just temple bar.
Get out of the house more
Yeah, thats exactly what I said.
Oh for sure, I was just so shocked and felt awkward to ask about it, but next time I definitely need to man up and say something
Eh... yeah!
American staff don’t get hourly minimum wages like Irish staff do, and the tips are based on a percentage pre tax, not the total that includes the tax. I would Not pay a service charge on two people and I would not pay one on a total that includes the VAT. There is no justification for this in Europe.
They do. Federal minimum wage for tipped workers is $2.13 per hour and $7.25 for non-tipped workers. Each state (and even county) has differences (mostly) over and above that. But there are a few states that have the federal minimum. Service charges really should be banned in Europe.
So, not like Ireland, where minimum wage is 12.70.
??? Yes there is. It also varies by state as I said. e.g. California has $16 irrespective of the job being tipped or non-tipped. Connecticut is ~$15 non tipped/$6 tipped. 30 states have minimums higher than federal.
Yes, I am aware. I was in the US a few times.
Are you legally allowed to refuse to pay a service charge in Ireland?
Yep, done it plenty of times.
Why would you not be legally allowed to do that?
If it’s on the menu and stated then it’s part of the bill.
I would ask for it to be removed, especially for a table of 2.
First of all, as a principle, I never leave tip unless service is exceptionally good. In my opinion prices in restaurants are high enough to cover decent salary for people working. Second there is a question of legality of adding stuff to your bill without you asking for it. Taking this into account I do not have a problem asking why it is added on my bill without me asking and requesting it to be removed.
I agree, sometimes I leave a tip when service is exceptionally good or if I have some extra cash. I’m actually going to the same restaurant next week, because I want to try the steak. If they will apply service charge, this time I will ask to remove it.
Never go back.
I generally always leave a tip, if the service is bad I just won’t go back. With the gratuity added to the bill I just hate the fact I’m not giving a tip, instead they are taking a tip from me.
Why do you always leave a tip, especially if the service is bad? Do you tip a cashier or a bus driver?
Just always have, the extra few bob isn’t going to break me. And no I dont tip a cashier or bus driver, most people in the entire world don’t tip these people but most do tip waiting staff, you don’t have to and that’s fine, I do, it’s not life changing money but it’s just a little something.
This has to be stopped. This is not USA.
This Is ~~Sparta~~ A Spar!
I tell them I didn't order any service charge so please will they remove it
Name and Shame! It was their choice to do this, now these are the repercussions!!!
Few days ago was in a cafe. Bill came with an 8% service charge. Coffee was nice so didn't care. Went up to pay and when they turned the card machine around I was presented with a load of options to leave a tip on top of the cost of the bill with the already added service charge. Needless to say I selected no tip... Chancers.
Is the restaurant taking the service charge for themselves? I would ask the employee at the till.
That’s illegal since last year
If you are feeling passive-agressive, next time act the thick and press the the red cancel button instead of zero tip. They will have the hassle of setting up the transaction again.
I like how you think. I’m definitely going to try this. If enough people do it they’ll get sick of it and get rid of the tip option 😁
I am almost positive this is illegal under a recent enough EU law for table sizes less then 4 if you challenge then you can tell them to feck off. Further more you can say you will take it to the small claims court as hidden charges especially if it's not disclosed anywhere.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/pay-and-employment/tips-gratuities-service-charges/#db4a01
Oh okay yea that's it. I suppose you could ask for proof of it going to the employees they might begin to back down then.
Just read some reviews and it’s MANDATORY 10% service charge even for one person. Is that legal???
Yes, but only if they advise you in advance of the charge, how much it will be (or how it will be calculated), otherwise you can report them to the Ccpc.
That's a tourist trap thing, fuck that. We don't want those Americanisms here. Where did you go to eat? You should name and shame them here.
Please share where this was because whenever it happens to me it puts me in such an awful mood and I too have social anxiety so I hate pulling them up on it (though I have done it)
Ask them to remove it, tips aren't mandatory
This is coming in places. Couple months ago in a hotel bar in Dublin I looked for a pint at the counter and the cunts put a 12.5% service. I was raging
What one was that so I can avoid it? Putting a service charge for 1 pint is disgraceful
The morrison on Ormond quay
Why not just say who it was? They're not gonna sue you
Name and shame, that's a disgrace
Yeah got hit with that in a bar in Saggart and the waiting staff took our order and brought our food, they spent a total of around 2minutes at our table, I went to the bar to get our drinks myself and when we got the bill we automatically got hit with a 12% gratuity charge.
What happened when you queried it?
I didn’t, that’s how they run their business and my opinion won’t mean shit to them, they will only think I’m been cheap. I’ll just never go back.
What does their opinion of you matter, *especially* if you're not going to go back? Does it bother you *that* much what strangers think of you? The fewer people question it, the more it'll happen. What was the name of the place?
I hate these *pointless* posts. "This happened to me" or "I was overcharged, but I'm not going to tell you where so you can avoid it happening to you"!!!! I mean c'mon! If they're charging the fee then obviously they don't expect it to be a big secret. Why not tell people who and where it was?
I'd ask for it to be removed, and if I found the service to be really good, I'd leave a tip. I'd also query the application of a service charge for a table for two. It's often on menus that it will be applied for larger groups alright.
Would have to have been advertised on the menu I would say. If it wasn’t don’t think it’s allowed. Either way pretty dodgy practice imo
Don’t eat out much but have specifically asked twice in last 2 months in Dublin for the service charge to be removed - absolute piss take that they add it automatically. First restaurant told us it was added and very timidly told us we could remove it if we would like (which we did). Second restaurant (which was a BUFFET and SELF SERVICE) added charge to bill without saying a single thing and when I asked to have it removed they also acted very awkwardly and hesitatingly. Weird stuff
I would refuse to pay it, I am all for leaving a tip for good service, but that's at my discretion, I would demand they take it off the bill, give no tip and leave a review on Google and trip adviser to make other people aware
I’m not accustomed, is that basically a tip added to the bill?
Tips are NOT mandatory in Ireland and putting a service charge on the bill is pretty brazen. I’ve worked in the service industry in very busy restaurants in Dublin and we never did that except for large groups and even then you couldn’t enforce it. Tips are not part of the salary here they’re merely a nice little bonus.
I got in trouble when I worked as a waitress for refusing to add the 12% tip to peoples bills if their table was more than 6 people. I thought it was very unfair because you could have a table of 4 or 5 right who were more demanding or more work right beside a 6 top that were easy to serve and nice. People should be allowed to choose.
There’s a place in limerick that charges you automatically online for take away, it’s a joke, don’t even know if I’m gonna like my meal
I am new to Ireland and thought this was the norm! Felt weird being an introvert and couldn’t say anything. I am gonna try and question it the next time. I also so wrong calculations on a POS tip calculator (I did question this and they told me to put in a custom amount. They promised to get it fixed and apologised profusely)
It's been common in some places in Ireland for 20 years. My standard response has always been to pay exactly the amount including service charge (which in those situations is nearly always less than I would have tipped). And then stop going there.
Was it the market bar? They're renowned for doing it and possibly some other establishments have started to implement it
Was there any mention of this on the menu?
No!
It's the law to display this >Since 1 December 2022, employers must clearly display their policy on how cash and card tips, gratuities and service charges are distributed. >The tips and gratuities notice must clearly state: >Whether or not tips or gratuities are distributed to and among staff >The way they are distributed and the amounts distributed >Whether or not service charges (or any portion of them) are distributed and if so, how they are distributed and the amounts distributed
Who do you report the issue to? Or is it another piece of lip-service legislation that has no agency assigned to enforce it? We see what you are doing Fine Gael (and yes, this is straight of their "we're business friendly while looking like we support the average person" playbook)!! 😬
The WRC
What was the restaurant called?
I don’t tip anymore. The minimum wage is 12.70. No need for tips. It’s an American practice. Why tip someone for bringing you food but not for bringing you a product? Why not tip the Amazon delivery drivers? They deliver the product to your door. It’s ridiculous we tip at all
I agree with you. Restaurants are now putting down a price increase describing it a BS service charge. You could ask about it but I suspect that would be awkward. You will probably have to question the issue before you order. To be honest I personally wouldn't want my food prepared by someone who is pissed off with me. I used to do restaurant work when I was younger and I have seen some dodgy shit! The obvious solution is avoid that restaurant and any other that have ridiculous charges. It's a cliché but people need to vote with their feet and their wallet.
>You could ask about it but I suspect that would be awkward. That's exactly what they're banking on. The majority of people will feel rude or awkward or cheap in front of their people to ask about it. I have seen it written on the menu, only the one you get when you sit down, which is the same form. Who's going to decide to get up and leave when they see that. Shower of cunts. Hate that shit. Eating out is gougey enough as it is.
I would question it then pay in cash the correct amount tipping is a childish idiotic American idea that instills the belief that you should get extra for just doing your goddamn job(go on any of the server life or waiting subs they are batshit insane) and it's literally infecting so many businesses outside of the service industry in ireland. I over heard a conversation at work where two lads were asking each other what's appropriate to tip their barber and tattoo artist. Hair lad pays 40 euro and 20 tip for the same fucking haircut everyone has. Tattoo lad tips over a 150 each session like wtf is wrong with people y'all making shit more expensive showing companies y'all stupidly fork over cash for nothing.
It's a bullshit method to pretend their prices are lower. They should be honest about their prices and pay their staff properly
And their prices are not even low. €20 for a burger with chips.
Ah name them t'fuck
OP will you come on and name them, the people demand to know
Just name them. They're likely not going to see it, and won't know who you are anyway.
My dad is retired but worked his whole life in the hotel/restaurant business. As soon as he sees the service charge on the menu he'll ask the staff if they receive the money, if they say no he tells them he won't be paying it.
Who does it go to if not the staff? The owner?
Owners or management. Some pretend it’s used for the “staff Christmas party” but it would cover like 30 Christmas parties. The Ivy in Dublin City centre got in trouble for not giving it to staff
It's illegal now, but yeah.
Same thing happened to two of us in a Steakhouse last week. It seems to be happening more often here.
What city?
No tip so.. I wonder if the waiter actually gets anything from it.
You need to ask them to remove it
As long as I remember there was a sit in vs take out price difference. Wasn't it that they moved that sit in charge to service charge ? I'm not justifying it, I just remember there was always some kind of price increase between sit-in and take out.
Unless it was explicitly and clear advertised around the restaurant or on then menu I would guess it's illegal, not a solicitor so don't quote me. You can try report it to the CCPC, did you keep the receipt?
I have often discussed that with friends and colleagues. Some are ok with it but the vast majority of us just don't ever darken the door of an establishment that charges a service charge ever again. Putting on an automatic charge and handing it to me removed any tip I was going to give just for the cheek of it.
I've seen a number of similar posts but I never see people name the place... Is there a reason people don't name and shame? How can we know where to avoid?
You may be introverted. But that was you being shy/anxious. Introversion has nothing to do with social anxiety or being conflict averse. Also, I would 100% get it removed and I'd enjoy never going back.
Employers are banned from describing a mandatory service charge applied to a customer's bill as a 'service charge' unless the payment is treated by the employer in the same way as electronic tips or gratuities. This means that mandatory service charges can only be added to a bill if the money goes to employees.
My friend and I went to Boef and Frites and got charged a service charge too, which worked out about 10 euro. We only realised when we left and looked at the teceipt. I had never seen this happen for a table of 2, and it wasn't stated in the menu either.
Name and shame the place and stop being a wimp
I work as a waiter in a 5 star hotel, service charge is the biggest load of shit. We never see any of it, it all essentially disappears, its the same with tips left on the card machines. I mean i'm still grateful for it but cash tips are what I actually get, and in your case you can ask the waiter/waitress to remove the service charge from the bill and pay it seperately in cash. It's guaranteed to get to us that way.
I work in restaurants, and though receiving tips is totally normal, I would never even CONSIDER doing this in (including in the upmarket fine dining establishments I've worked with next-level service). This is so tacky and SO greedy. The fact that it's been upped to 12.5% and not even the standard 10% tip is particularly saucy, but it shouldn't ever be on a table of 2 at all unless disclosed beforehand. I wouldn't return to this establishment, and I'd email the management and let them know what happened tbh. I feel like the staff likely applied this charge without the management or owners approving, because that is weird af. Don't accept that kind of behaviour. An auto-gratuity on tables of 5/6+ is absolutely standard (and clearly stated), but putting it on a table of 2 is so bizarre, and definitely not the norm. Report that ish for sure.
It's becoming more common around Dublin and it'll probably become the norm as it has in London. It's bullshit
Just started reading reviews of this restaurant online Google and noticed people mentioning service charge. It’s mandatory 10% service charge even for 1 party! Is that legal?
Is there a reason you won’t name the restaurant?
Because it's bullshit
Why do we think it's bullshit?
I have a wedding event planned with them and don’t want to piss them off, so they won’t cancel it. I’m sorry!
You're not the only person who eats there. I highly doubt they'd track you down personally.
Oh for god sake imagine coming on to bitch about them but still giving them your custom. Put them on blast
😂 you’re still going to give them your business. You could’ve just named them. You haven’t said what day of the week & exact time you were there like
How are they going to know who you are from posting on here. Also if they somehow figured out who you are from a post on reddit and cancelled the future event, they are in a bigger mess. Name.and shame or I would be off the opinion your post is complete bullshit.
OK, we'll guess. Is it Morrison grill?
This happened to me in a place called Maneki in town when I took my father for some food. I was confused because the number on the bill wasn’t matching up to how much the food was until I saw that the service charge had been added automatically and that we could ask the server to take it off. So I did. It was expensive enough as it is!
I'd ask them to remove it and give the service staff a tip in cash, mainly because I refuse to believe that any restaurant adding a charge via their till system is going to make the effort to ensure staff get all of that money.
Why would you give a tip if the service staff failed to inform you about the service charge to begin with? That's surely not a great service
Fair point!
It's up to the staff to ensure that they're receiving the service charge. If they're not, they need to make a complaint to the WRC. Every restaurant can have their own system of how they distribute tips, they can have a different distribution system for cash tips however that are usually paid directly to the worker. This will vary from place to place
you are allowed to have it removed. i do it every time as it never goes to the servers. id rather my money go towards the staff that actually do the work rather than the overheads.
Reviews about this restaurant say that 10% service charge is mandatory. Is that possible to be mandatory? Seems sketchy
Where was this?
OP has pointedly ignored every request to name the restaurant for some reason.
it’s not mandatory unless it’s going directly to staff, that’s why im telling you to tell them to remove it. i work in this industry - not in a front facing role. most places that attempt this are doing it to give to management, not to the actual staff. service charges the majority of the time are not distributed amongst staff, yet places will ignore the regulations and lead customers to believe they are. always demand it be removed, no matter if you will tip or not. this way the tip can be handed direct to the server instead of through managements hands.
Name and shame or stop fucking lying. Posts like this without naming the place is blatant bollocks You won't name them because you have a wedding event planned with them....
Had this before was in queue to be seated, a couple had gotten their bill and refused to pay the fee as it was a hidden charge. Manager claimed to call the Garda for not paying, couple told them to do it as the couple was going to report them to ccpc anyways. They suddenly dropped it and couple didn’t have to pay it. We decided not to dine there and told the manager it was due to that fee, our group was 20 people so decent loss to them.
Can anything be put in to law to stop this tipp8ng culture creeping in? I'm ex bar and waiter staff and would hate to see this become common place
I work in a restaurant. Tips are always a nice supplement, but I am fully of the view that they should always be optional and at your own discretion. Cheap employers not wanting to pay their staff a feasible wage is not something that should be imposed on someone else, especially in such a compulsory manner.
This is common practice in London and I would hate for it to come in here. It’s not normal and you should ask to remove it before it does become the norm (no going back then)
It's not just Dublin, it's everywhere in London now too. Wouldn't be surprised to learn that it's a trend in other cities over here, too, particularly places like Manchester and Liverpool.
With the massive drop in people using cash more places are adding a tip option to the bill as tip jars etc don't really work anymore. Nobody has change. But you should always be asked unless it's clearly listed on the menu.
Was in London recently and this was the norm in every restaurant we ate in, just 2 people. Seems to be the trend now.
If that's the policy of the restaurant, then that's the price of a meal there. If the service is bad, don't go back.
Appropriate username
OK.. 25 years of hospitality work here. Service charges have been around for years, I agree it should be clearly stated on the menu but it doesn't have to be. No server cares if you ask it to be removed, but obviously tips and service charge are much appreciated in a low paying hard working industry so of course minimum wage staff are not advertising the removal as it makes working in the industry actually financially viable. As far as "tips are a new Americanism" chat goes...no..Even 20 years ago in small Town Ireland in a local bar I made decent tips, all those little bits of change you leave and 'have a drink yourself' moments really help minimum wage workers. Yes the new card machines with the first page displaying a tip are annoying, JUST PRESS NO, your server won't care but will very much appreciate if you did leave something. The kid behind the counter didn't set up the software, will they take the chance to try and get a tip rather than skipping that bit before they hand you the machine?..of course they will..you would too.