The dice can roll however they may, but they’re just really underwhelming compared to other teams with better stats and interesting abilities.
Honestly, if you have a good handful of different units then you may be able to proxy some of the special units from Hierotek Circle for causal play.
With what you have, all you absolutely need to just run the Hierotek Circle, which is a much better way to run Necrons, is 1 of Chronomancer, Psychomancer or Technomancer. As well as the plasmacyte reanimator and accelerator. The Cryptek kit comes with a big that you can slap on a different base and call one of the plasmacytes and the other can be made out whatever leftover bits you got. So a crisp $35 additional investment gets you an actually decent Necron team. Additionally if you’ve got any character, you could probably just proxy them as the Cryptek for your team as well.
It’s not a requirement to run the team but eventually you’ll want to get either the Apprentek or convert one of your existing dudes into one. I’m not sure where to get one besides the KillTeam box but once again it’s only recommended, not required.
Edit: And to answer your actual question. Compendium is already mostly at the bottom of the tier list, mainly due to lack of tricks, combos or pure data sheet ability. There are decent compendium teams like Deathguard, Custodes and Daemons but Tombworld is definitely in a knife fight for last place with stuff like Hunter Cadre or Brood Coven.
Last week, I won a game with a landslide against one of my club's members. He played daemons (Khorne+ Khorne Leader+ Pink Horrors) and I played Legionnaires.
It was his 3rd KT match, but seasoned 40k player. Not really fun.
What is a nice setup for Daemons ?
I mean that’s not surprising, Legionnaires are a very good team in general and they kinda hard counter daemons in particular. They have good melee specialists and good shooters(going bolter heavy probably is even better against daemons) so they can dunk on daemons at any range. Add in that they’re way more durable which means that daemons only come out ahead on number of activations. Which is nice if you’re hiding some long range haymakers like plasma gunners in there but as is, daemons just get shredded by double shooting bolters every turn with near impunity.
As for your buddies list, the plaguebearers seem like the best fire team. They’re slow but the 5+ FNP can do work keeping those guys alive as possible. I don’t play demons but that FNP is why my Deathguard can compete with bespoke teams, as long as Grandfather blesses the dice. And then I think as the other guy said, the second fire team is khorne or Tizzy-nitch depending on if it’s open board or Into the Dark.
They’re pretty bad. We got a guy locally who has played them forever and it was like clubbing a baby seal every week. They’re so slow and have zero tricks up their sleeve.
If you're new to KT they're great to learn the game with. And if you already have the minis its a cheap way to get started!
By the time you start feeling their shortcomings you'll know whether its the game for you, then you can make an informed decision to change or upgrade.
this is great advice! this is exactly how i progressed, and the team was a dead simple way to learn the fundamentals of the game without getting tangled up in the quirks of the team. 8 immortals or 4 immortals and 5 warriors seem to be the most viable build.
100%.
A mate runs immortals and warriors. If the loadout is tailored to the mission, board and opponent they can still be lethal. Short range weapons (cant remember the name) on the warriors with the ploy to get the re-rolls, and the choice of ap1 or splash on the immortals depending on the enemy. Throw in some starfire cores on either and they become quite nasty.
They have some decent weapons, and being shot by a Deathmark's gun isn't a great experience any day of the week, but like others have said, they're just slow and don't have much to do.
At my LGS, a tomb world is in first place of our league. Death marks are snipers, and the immortals get objectives. Living metal and reanimation protocols are OP. The only loss they have at the moment is to a death guard team, and that's in third.
I will say, Compendium-only games are pretty easy to learn the game with and I actually enjoy playing with the simplified rules. Don't discount Tomb Worlds as a beginner, even though they won't do you any favors in competitive play.
Play the Tomb World for a few games to get use to the dice rolling and a few basic rules if you like (don’t expect to win or loose).
Then if you have a have some models for 40K you likely can create a Hierotek Circle:
* one of the leaders (Technomancer / Psychmancer / Chronmancer models)
* something to proxy as the Apprentek
* 2 different looking somethings to proxy as the 2 different plasmacytes
* Royal Warden to proxy as Despotek
* 3 Immortals / Deathmarks
If you really don’t have a leader / Apprentek / plasmacytes, buy the box.
I picked up Royal Wardens cheap to use as my Despoteks as I like the models
https://preview.redd.it/sy0xireoklnb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46d6da817ac7bc0fccc14606973783baa72a73b2
It depends, do you have Flayed Ones and Immortals? If you have one or both of those then you should be fine. It’s a decent enough beginner team to learn the game with.
I do have Flayed Ones and Immortals. I'll probably use it to learn, but it sounds like if I want to stick with Necrons, I need to put together the newer team.
Doing 4 Immortals and 5 Flayed Ones is the only thing they can do without getting shoved off the table. Sempiternal Weave on the Immortal Leader and 3 Starfire Cores on the rest of the Immortals. Keep the Flayed Ones in Conceal, they play the objectives. Move/Dash with your Immortals in conceal on TP1 to get them in good positions to shoot on TP2. The biggest hurdle is not losing any of your guys TP1.
Deathmarks are suicide, 4 inch move and Heavy is a terrible combination. Arguably the worst shooter in the game.
Implacable March is a trap on TP1 because it forces you to be in Engage to use it and prevents you from playing objectives. It lets you Move 6 inches and Shoot in Engage instead of Move/Dash for 7 inches with the Immortals in Conceal. It also lets you Charge 8 inches and Fight with the Flayed Ones in Engage, though it’s usually better to use Skulking Killer and Charge 6 inches and Fight in Conceal.
Reanimation Protocols can only be used once per Turning Point to place a Reanimation Token.
Basically, Tomb Worlds biggest issue is 4 inch move combined with 2 APL. You will constantly feel like you want to do something on the board but you always just come up short. I’d say play a game or two at max to learn the rules and then move onto Heirotek Circle as soon as you get them.
I would suggest playing Hierotek Circle instead. For the basics of it all you need is an Immortal/Deathmark squad, a Cryptek that isn't a Plasmancer, and a couple of Plasmacytes. I believe the kit has unique plasmacytes but you could also just used the onces from the Skorpekh and Ophyidian boxes like I do. You don't get access to the unique units, Apprentek and Immortal Despotek, but both can be sourced from kitbashing or proxies, in my case I kitbashed a warrior with leftover chronomancer bits to create an Apprentek, and use a Royal Warden in place of the Immortal Despotek
I managed to create my own hierotek circle just using necron warriors to create immortals and death marks. I also made my own aprentek from a warrior too. Two plasmacytes from Skorpekh kits, and a necron warden and overlord and that’s my cryptek and despotek sorted. With a bit of creativit, very easy to do!
I played them for months starting out as I built up my collection (eventually promoting to Hierotek Circle). I can say they *are* definitely bad, but they are so close to being good that it's honestly a shame.
Pros:
1. They can kill REALLY WELL, with immortals and deathmarks both having access to AP1 4/5 dmg across the board.
2. Sempiternal weave on the leader is fantastic. 2+ saves are insane. Always take it, and that leader will feel impactful.
3. Reanimation is great. Not as good as Hierotek in how many wounds you get back, but you can revive the same model repeatedly, unlike with the circle. Get a few reanimations on your 2+ save leader, and you can do some work.
Cons:
1. They are SLOW. 4" movement is garbage. They do have implacable march, but that requires them to be in engage, prevents them from dashing, and, worst of all, prevents them from doing mission actions. In many open board layouts, objectives will be 7" away, and it will be literally impossible to reach them and do an action turn 1 without a pregame dash. This means some opposing teams can just score turn 1 and leave you too far behind to catch up the rest of the game. This is easily their biggest problem.
2. Fire teams are restrictive. Immortals are great all-rounders, and a team of 8 immortals is not a bad way to go. Deathmarks are harder hitters, but taking 4 turns the already slowest team in the game into an even slower, more clunky one. Flayed ones are cool for giving the team some melee, but giving up 4 guns is a really big hit, especially with how hard it can be to get the 4" move models into melee in the first place. Warriors are neat, but I have honestly found them to be outclassed by immortals, and GA2 is awkward on a 5-man fire team.
3. Melee is poor. This honestly seems like a reasonable downside, though, for how good the guns are, and if you *really* wanted to circumvent the issue, you could try making the flayed ones work.
IF you are playing casually with friends who have non-compendium teams, I would honestly ask them if you can make a few homebrew changes.
1. Update Implacable March with the Hierotek Circle's Intractable March. It is the exact same thing, but it doesn't have the action restrictions. This would be a good band-aid for a lot of their problems with mission play.
2. Update their reanimation protocols to match the Hierotek Circle rules. That is, let them come back within 3" of the token, with the order you choose, and with D3+3 wounds (plus living metal) instead of just D3. But in exchange, make each model only targetable by the strat once. This helps keep each model from dying instantly after resurrection and was a great update the Hierotek Circle was given.
3. Get rid of the fire team restrictions and let you mix and match 8 operatives (or 9 if at least 2 of them are Necron Warriors). I think this would make the team more interesting to play and play against. You could have, say, a team with 4 immortals (1 leader), a deathmark, 2 flayed ones, and 2 warriors. It would play much more akin to the special operatives every modern team gets, with each model having unique advantages and disadvantages without increasing the actual number of models. And if the warriors bother you with the model count, you can say they have to stay in a fire team of 5.
These are just my thoughts. I played the team against my friend for months and probably only beat his intercession team 2/15 games. If you're okay with fighting against the odds, you can use them as a starter team as you build toward something else. But if you want to have a fighting chance, it will be rough without a few tweaks.
I once played a guy in a compendium only event who was playing tomb world vs my death guard. He wasn't an inexperienced player or anything but wasn't having a great run. He pulled out his models and had a few more models available so i made the joke "Woah tomb world get a lot of models!" He said he wished they had that many, bringing me to the fun idea of "Fuck it take 4 extra guys anyway"
He still lost by 7 pts. Tomb world sadly has problems with its core mechanics. The rules arent very cohesive and the fire team breakdowns dont really blend well, This is a team that needed a free pick roster.
The dice can roll however they may, but they’re just really underwhelming compared to other teams with better stats and interesting abilities. Honestly, if you have a good handful of different units then you may be able to proxy some of the special units from Hierotek Circle for causal play.
With what you have, all you absolutely need to just run the Hierotek Circle, which is a much better way to run Necrons, is 1 of Chronomancer, Psychomancer or Technomancer. As well as the plasmacyte reanimator and accelerator. The Cryptek kit comes with a big that you can slap on a different base and call one of the plasmacytes and the other can be made out whatever leftover bits you got. So a crisp $35 additional investment gets you an actually decent Necron team. Additionally if you’ve got any character, you could probably just proxy them as the Cryptek for your team as well. It’s not a requirement to run the team but eventually you’ll want to get either the Apprentek or convert one of your existing dudes into one. I’m not sure where to get one besides the KillTeam box but once again it’s only recommended, not required. Edit: And to answer your actual question. Compendium is already mostly at the bottom of the tier list, mainly due to lack of tricks, combos or pure data sheet ability. There are decent compendium teams like Deathguard, Custodes and Daemons but Tombworld is definitely in a knife fight for last place with stuff like Hunter Cadre or Brood Coven.
Last week, I won a game with a landslide against one of my club's members. He played daemons (Khorne+ Khorne Leader+ Pink Horrors) and I played Legionnaires. It was his 3rd KT match, but seasoned 40k player. Not really fun. What is a nice setup for Daemons ?
Sadly demons aren’t great rn. It’s either run gellerpox or try to blaze a new trail with compendium demons.
With compendium daemons plaguebearers are practically an auto take, then I like pink horrors or bloodletters depending on board/match-up
I mean that’s not surprising, Legionnaires are a very good team in general and they kinda hard counter daemons in particular. They have good melee specialists and good shooters(going bolter heavy probably is even better against daemons) so they can dunk on daemons at any range. Add in that they’re way more durable which means that daemons only come out ahead on number of activations. Which is nice if you’re hiding some long range haymakers like plasma gunners in there but as is, daemons just get shredded by double shooting bolters every turn with near impunity. As for your buddies list, the plaguebearers seem like the best fire team. They’re slow but the 5+ FNP can do work keeping those guys alive as possible. I don’t play demons but that FNP is why my Deathguard can compete with bespoke teams, as long as Grandfather blesses the dice. And then I think as the other guy said, the second fire team is khorne or Tizzy-nitch depending on if it’s open board or Into the Dark.
They’re pretty bad. We got a guy locally who has played them forever and it was like clubbing a baby seal every week. They’re so slow and have zero tricks up their sleeve.
If you're new to KT they're great to learn the game with. And if you already have the minis its a cheap way to get started! By the time you start feeling their shortcomings you'll know whether its the game for you, then you can make an informed decision to change or upgrade.
this is great advice! this is exactly how i progressed, and the team was a dead simple way to learn the fundamentals of the game without getting tangled up in the quirks of the team. 8 immortals or 4 immortals and 5 warriors seem to be the most viable build.
100%. A mate runs immortals and warriors. If the loadout is tailored to the mission, board and opponent they can still be lethal. Short range weapons (cant remember the name) on the warriors with the ploy to get the re-rolls, and the choice of ap1 or splash on the immortals depending on the enemy. Throw in some starfire cores on either and they become quite nasty.
They have some decent weapons, and being shot by a Deathmark's gun isn't a great experience any day of the week, but like others have said, they're just slow and don't have much to do.
You might talk to your opponants about homebrewing in a deathmark for one immortal, and maybe some other stuff to bring them up to snuff
At my LGS, a tomb world is in first place of our league. Death marks are snipers, and the immortals get objectives. Living metal and reanimation protocols are OP. The only loss they have at the moment is to a death guard team, and that's in third.
Wtf what are the other teams being played? How is this person winning with deathmarks and immortals hahaha
I will say, Compendium-only games are pretty easy to learn the game with and I actually enjoy playing with the simplified rules. Don't discount Tomb Worlds as a beginner, even though they won't do you any favors in competitive play.
Play the Tomb World for a few games to get use to the dice rolling and a few basic rules if you like (don’t expect to win or loose). Then if you have a have some models for 40K you likely can create a Hierotek Circle: * one of the leaders (Technomancer / Psychmancer / Chronmancer models) * something to proxy as the Apprentek * 2 different looking somethings to proxy as the 2 different plasmacytes * Royal Warden to proxy as Despotek * 3 Immortals / Deathmarks If you really don’t have a leader / Apprentek / plasmacytes, buy the box. I picked up Royal Wardens cheap to use as my Despoteks as I like the models https://preview.redd.it/sy0xireoklnb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46d6da817ac7bc0fccc14606973783baa72a73b2
Great team if you're not looking to do a ton of thinking. Otherwise, well, others have pointed out the cons.
It depends, do you have Flayed Ones and Immortals? If you have one or both of those then you should be fine. It’s a decent enough beginner team to learn the game with.
I do have Flayed Ones and Immortals. I'll probably use it to learn, but it sounds like if I want to stick with Necrons, I need to put together the newer team.
Doing 4 Immortals and 5 Flayed Ones is the only thing they can do without getting shoved off the table. Sempiternal Weave on the Immortal Leader and 3 Starfire Cores on the rest of the Immortals. Keep the Flayed Ones in Conceal, they play the objectives. Move/Dash with your Immortals in conceal on TP1 to get them in good positions to shoot on TP2. The biggest hurdle is not losing any of your guys TP1. Deathmarks are suicide, 4 inch move and Heavy is a terrible combination. Arguably the worst shooter in the game. Implacable March is a trap on TP1 because it forces you to be in Engage to use it and prevents you from playing objectives. It lets you Move 6 inches and Shoot in Engage instead of Move/Dash for 7 inches with the Immortals in Conceal. It also lets you Charge 8 inches and Fight with the Flayed Ones in Engage, though it’s usually better to use Skulking Killer and Charge 6 inches and Fight in Conceal. Reanimation Protocols can only be used once per Turning Point to place a Reanimation Token. Basically, Tomb Worlds biggest issue is 4 inch move combined with 2 APL. You will constantly feel like you want to do something on the board but you always just come up short. I’d say play a game or two at max to learn the rules and then move onto Heirotek Circle as soon as you get them.
Every time ive played tomb world theyve done me well. I like to combine warriors with immortals, gives a good balance of troop count and heavy hitting
I would suggest playing Hierotek Circle instead. For the basics of it all you need is an Immortal/Deathmark squad, a Cryptek that isn't a Plasmancer, and a couple of Plasmacytes. I believe the kit has unique plasmacytes but you could also just used the onces from the Skorpekh and Ophyidian boxes like I do. You don't get access to the unique units, Apprentek and Immortal Despotek, but both can be sourced from kitbashing or proxies, in my case I kitbashed a warrior with leftover chronomancer bits to create an Apprentek, and use a Royal Warden in place of the Immortal Despotek
I managed to create my own hierotek circle just using necron warriors to create immortals and death marks. I also made my own aprentek from a warrior too. Two plasmacytes from Skorpekh kits, and a necron warden and overlord and that’s my cryptek and despotek sorted. With a bit of creativit, very easy to do!
They are bad. If people in your area have dedicated kill team teams, they will table you even in casual play
Just run Hierotek circle my dude. You don't have to suffer playing on Index rules
I played them for months starting out as I built up my collection (eventually promoting to Hierotek Circle). I can say they *are* definitely bad, but they are so close to being good that it's honestly a shame. Pros: 1. They can kill REALLY WELL, with immortals and deathmarks both having access to AP1 4/5 dmg across the board. 2. Sempiternal weave on the leader is fantastic. 2+ saves are insane. Always take it, and that leader will feel impactful. 3. Reanimation is great. Not as good as Hierotek in how many wounds you get back, but you can revive the same model repeatedly, unlike with the circle. Get a few reanimations on your 2+ save leader, and you can do some work. Cons: 1. They are SLOW. 4" movement is garbage. They do have implacable march, but that requires them to be in engage, prevents them from dashing, and, worst of all, prevents them from doing mission actions. In many open board layouts, objectives will be 7" away, and it will be literally impossible to reach them and do an action turn 1 without a pregame dash. This means some opposing teams can just score turn 1 and leave you too far behind to catch up the rest of the game. This is easily their biggest problem. 2. Fire teams are restrictive. Immortals are great all-rounders, and a team of 8 immortals is not a bad way to go. Deathmarks are harder hitters, but taking 4 turns the already slowest team in the game into an even slower, more clunky one. Flayed ones are cool for giving the team some melee, but giving up 4 guns is a really big hit, especially with how hard it can be to get the 4" move models into melee in the first place. Warriors are neat, but I have honestly found them to be outclassed by immortals, and GA2 is awkward on a 5-man fire team. 3. Melee is poor. This honestly seems like a reasonable downside, though, for how good the guns are, and if you *really* wanted to circumvent the issue, you could try making the flayed ones work. IF you are playing casually with friends who have non-compendium teams, I would honestly ask them if you can make a few homebrew changes. 1. Update Implacable March with the Hierotek Circle's Intractable March. It is the exact same thing, but it doesn't have the action restrictions. This would be a good band-aid for a lot of their problems with mission play. 2. Update their reanimation protocols to match the Hierotek Circle rules. That is, let them come back within 3" of the token, with the order you choose, and with D3+3 wounds (plus living metal) instead of just D3. But in exchange, make each model only targetable by the strat once. This helps keep each model from dying instantly after resurrection and was a great update the Hierotek Circle was given. 3. Get rid of the fire team restrictions and let you mix and match 8 operatives (or 9 if at least 2 of them are Necron Warriors). I think this would make the team more interesting to play and play against. You could have, say, a team with 4 immortals (1 leader), a deathmark, 2 flayed ones, and 2 warriors. It would play much more akin to the special operatives every modern team gets, with each model having unique advantages and disadvantages without increasing the actual number of models. And if the warriors bother you with the model count, you can say they have to stay in a fire team of 5. These are just my thoughts. I played the team against my friend for months and probably only beat his intercession team 2/15 games. If you're okay with fighting against the odds, you can use them as a starter team as you build toward something else. But if you want to have a fighting chance, it will be rough without a few tweaks.
I once played a guy in a compendium only event who was playing tomb world vs my death guard. He wasn't an inexperienced player or anything but wasn't having a great run. He pulled out his models and had a few more models available so i made the joke "Woah tomb world get a lot of models!" He said he wished they had that many, bringing me to the fun idea of "Fuck it take 4 extra guys anyway" He still lost by 7 pts. Tomb world sadly has problems with its core mechanics. The rules arent very cohesive and the fire team breakdowns dont really blend well, This is a team that needed a free pick roster.