Why would someone take a terminator sergeant over a terminator captain? Captains, chaplains, and librarians seem way too high rank for kill team, strike force justian being the notable exception.
I'm glad you asked, I was thinking of balancing the captain, chaplain, and librarian by making them take an extra slot from the other operatives (it would be a team of 4 instead of 5). In fact, Strike Force Justian was the inspiration for me wanting to make this kill team.
I agree.. you'd have to water down the characters too much to make them not disgustingly OP compared to other teams.
Captain Justian is deliciously generic, despite being an exception as you have noted.
Oh 100%, I have no intentions of making them as proportionally stronger than a regular terminator like in regular 40k, rather a more souped up terminator with different abilities.
Crypteks are freaks, they are going behind their overlords back to further their own goals, so they make since. Especially since they themselves arnt exactly high ranking in the court, shadowseers are part of the troupe. And the troupe is all about kill team esque sabotage and recon, so being there to distract disrupt and support makes since
We're talking about captains, not lieutenants.
An LT/librarians/chaplain might fit killteam under some situations, but again most leaders are sergeant equivalents. Maybe in a bespoke deathwatch killteam where chaplains or librarians have literally led a killteam.
I imagine a Chaos terminator KT with a bunch of demon familiars. 3 Terminators, and like, 5 familars that can sacrifice themselves to teleport the Terminators.
As shamefulpile said with custodes at 4 and astartes at 6 i cant see terminators being at 5 without it being too strong
Perhaps a general direction of 4 terminators but them requiring greater teamwork (overlapping buffs through chaplain/leader/comms) to function compared to the banana boys
I ever wondered if a team of 2 terminators and 3 power armour could ever work (similar to the sisters + custodes concept) but then i think the question would still be how tough should the terminators be without breaking the game
But i applaud ur efforts in trying to bring the bulky bois to the table
I do miss playing them from killteam 1.0
if 40k is anything to go by, custodes and Terms would be on about the same level except that terminators would be slower and less lethal lol.
Frankly, I don't think 4 man teams is what this game needs, likewise with terminators.
Hard agree. Talons of the Emperor are already a balance nightmare, and terminators were part of what killed the first edition of Kill Team. That said, this is fan content so go wild and have fun, but just please PLEASE don't ask for an official terminator kill team.
I had previously thought that a “1st & 10th” type unit might be an interesting way to bring terminators into kill team. Have something like 2 terminators paired with 4 scouts. And maybe a special rule that the scouts have to use an action to place a homing beacon to let the terminators teleport onto the board in that location. I’m sure it would be a nightmare to balance right, but seems to fit the idea of kill team better than just plopping a squad of 4/5 terminators down
I 100% proxy 4 Custodes as 4 generic terminators. Old school Space Hulk style. No muss no fuss, the leader is the sarg model.. yup no heavy weapon.. but 'close enough' translation, and nobody gets pissy I am trying to make shit up.
3 Bog Standard looking Termies, with a Sarg and no model confusions either.
Yeah it would be way cooler to use the Power Fist rules but I mean.. its really no biggie to just use the spear stats since theyre so solid as is comparatively. We all know some day they will make it to the game, just a matter of time..
I love Kill Team, but the rules do not match the fantasy. 4 Custodes would wipe the floor with literally any other team. 6 Astartes should would do the same with any of the 10-14 'human' teams. Five Terminators would match up to the rest of the teams in a similar fashion to how four Custodes would, but it would break my brain seeing 5 Terminators against 6 Intercessors and thinking it could be a close fight in any way.
All that said, formatting looks nice, maybe bump down to 3 or 4. 1 leader and 3 squad members or Chaplain, Librarian, Captain/Sergeant.
Custodes do wipe. They are untouchable in most weapons and the wounds that make it through are like tickles, they can also take 2 enemies out per turn in most situations, the only way to beat them is avoid and play secondaries and/or split their attention
Space marines on the other hand, i think it 100% accurate for a narine team to get beat by vet gaurd, wyrmblade. Kasrkin ect, any hoard army makes since since they all have access to weapons that usally punch holes in tanks and are usally dropping like flies if they dont play very carefully, like most groups should against marines
Also marines are so swingy lore wise who knows what they can and cant beat
From what i've seen Custodes do wipe the floor with the other teams, i've played them a few times and rarely lost a model, they only way they lose is that the other guys are too many and they have to divide their attention between hunting them down and trying to complete their own objectives. But yes powescaling in the warhammer verse never makes sense.
Its likely a warp coven team beats 4 custodes in the lore. 3 full thousand son sorcerers and 3 rubrics, one with a soul reaper, is going to at least go even with 4 custodes.
But if they flex to 2 custodes 5 sisters of silence, I think the only team that challenges them is harlequins.
It would be interesting to see someone to try to make a rule set that balances around lore. 1 termie or custodian would be able to take on many full teams in the lore.
Came here to say this. My play group has been experimenting with adding other characters and I’d love to compare others home brews to ours and see where the balance may lie.
It needs a lot more simplification - model it like the intercession team.
Leader:
Sergeant (Stormbolter & Powersword)
Assault Sergeant (Lightning claws / Thunderhammer & Storm shield)
Operatives:
Terminator warrior (Stormbolter & Powerfist/chainfist)
Assault warrior (Lightning claws / Thunderhammer & Storm shield)
Heavy (Assault cannon / Cyclone launcher with Stormbolter / Heavy flamer & Power fist)
I'd make it 4 operatives. And then look at custodes, use their stats as a guide.
Tbh, I think a Terminator team is fine at 5 models.
Keep their movement and APL the same as Marines. *maybe* lower movement like Death Guard. Make their wounds a bit beefier.
And give them several auxiliary operatives:
CATs and servo skulls with some abilities that lets them interact with mission related actions amd any other neat interaction (like a servo skull that can be a spotter for the cyclone).
That's exactly what I was thinking of. The movement I was planning to be 4" and when I get is tested either 2 or 3 APL. I want to add more auxiliary operatives, the only problem I'm having is coming up with roles. if you have any to suggest I am more than willing to take suggestions. Pardon me for not knowing but what does CAT stand for?
I'll check when I get home, but it's the little tracked drone like Navy Breachers have. Introduced in Space Hulk tho, used by Space Marines to scout for the terminators breaching.
Hmmmm, might give this a swing with my old 90s metal deathwing termies. They’d be laughably scaled down and small, but seems like it’d be fun! Thanks for the rules OP
The terminator conversation is very cyclical.
1. They don’t fit the surgical nature of kill teams.
2. Put them up against 4 custodians, and the custodians will probably win. Put 5 or 6 terminators against anything else and the terminators clean house. They do not balance well in this setting.
3. Objectives based scenarios they might lose. Kill em all they will win, usually.
4. They should be used in GM scenarios or narratives. Making them a legit team will mess up game balance again, just like in KT18.
(I’m expecting the down votes… but I don’t want a broken game.)
I think you missed a mild trick in not adding a relic Terminator option, that and I'll join in and say should be a four man team like the banna boys
Could also be themed around a certain chapter, blood angels are classic but I think dark angels are better. Gives you the chance for nice fallen themed options
And not just any termies. We are talking about a Captain/Librarian/Chaplain running around with an Apothecary, a heavy gunner, AN ANCIENT, and an extra termie just so they dont get lonely.
And who knows what a comms terminator is capable of!
I applaud your efforts but Kill Team's core rules make it almost impossible to support a Terminator team that is both balanced and lore accurate-ish. Take Custodes, they had to go down from APL4 to APL3 to make them balanced, and in the process they both became unviable to run as 4 Custodes teams and feeling like slightly bigger, boring Space Marines.
Good luck, though, and feel free to make use of the many Terminator homebrew rules already on this sub <3
This is a fun idea. I'm painting up my Leviathon box and was gonna run the Termies as Custodes and the Infernus as Flamer Sisters, but I'd be down to test this out. Seems fun.
Not gonna comment on the roster or rules since you didnt provide any datasheets so not really much to say there.
But I will say that I think we are long overdue a terminator killteam. I think having a captain or librarian as your leader might be a bit excessive for the sort of scope kill team aims at lore-wise but otherwise this could be a neat project.
Bonus points for allowing special warrior/assualt loadouts to be taken if the team choses certain chapters as their keyword (dark angels could take deathwing, space wolves could take wolf guard, salamanders could take firedrakes, etc.). Would be neat to get some more interesting weapon options through a choice like this when making the team!
After reading the stats and considering it, I think you could play 5 termies vs 2 other teams in a 3 way game.
If playing 1 v 1, if you play 5 termies vs another modern team, I think you need to multiply the regular team by 1.5. You don’t need to add special characters (, gunner, death jester, etc.) but you need the extra regular bodies.
Why would someone take a terminator sergeant over a terminator captain? Captains, chaplains, and librarians seem way too high rank for kill team, strike force justian being the notable exception.
I'm glad you asked, I was thinking of balancing the captain, chaplain, and librarian by making them take an extra slot from the other operatives (it would be a team of 4 instead of 5). In fact, Strike Force Justian was the inspiration for me wanting to make this kill team.
I agree.. you'd have to water down the characters too much to make them not disgustingly OP compared to other teams. Captain Justian is deliciously generic, despite being an exception as you have noted.
Oh 100%, I have no intentions of making them as proportionally stronger than a regular terminator like in regular 40k, rather a more souped up terminator with different abilities.
How does it work? He takes the space of 2 marines? A Captain is only worth 2 marines?
Pretty much the former. If you take a captain, chaplain, or librarian, your team is 4 terminators instead of 5.
Crypteks and shadowseers are in kill team, why not marine leaders? You even noted one exception yourself
Crypteks are freaks, they are going behind their overlords back to further their own goals, so they make since. Especially since they themselves arnt exactly high ranking in the court, shadowseers are part of the troupe. And the troupe is all about kill team esque sabotage and recon, so being there to distract disrupt and support makes since
And Lieutenants are part of the chapter? And lead strike teams
We're talking about captains, not lieutenants. An LT/librarians/chaplain might fit killteam under some situations, but again most leaders are sergeant equivalents. Maybe in a bespoke deathwatch killteam where chaplains or librarians have literally led a killteam.
Captains after all are just space marines too. Vastly more plot armour, but just space marines
And Captains lead special missions *all* the time in lore.
Compendium/compendium+ teams aren't a great example and crypteks are scientists generally, not leaders.
got the leader keyword though BOOOOOOOOOOM
I imagine a Chaos terminator KT with a bunch of demon familiars. 3 Terminators, and like, 5 familars that can sacrifice themselves to teleport the Terminators.
You could proxy this team fairly easily using the Talon of the Emperor Kill Team. 2x Custodes 5x sisters of silence.
As shamefulpile said with custodes at 4 and astartes at 6 i cant see terminators being at 5 without it being too strong Perhaps a general direction of 4 terminators but them requiring greater teamwork (overlapping buffs through chaplain/leader/comms) to function compared to the banana boys I ever wondered if a team of 2 terminators and 3 power armour could ever work (similar to the sisters + custodes concept) but then i think the question would still be how tough should the terminators be without breaking the game But i applaud ur efforts in trying to bring the bulky bois to the table I do miss playing them from killteam 1.0
if 40k is anything to go by, custodes and Terms would be on about the same level except that terminators would be slower and less lethal lol. Frankly, I don't think 4 man teams is what this game needs, likewise with terminators.
Hard agree. Talons of the Emperor are already a balance nightmare, and terminators were part of what killed the first edition of Kill Team. That said, this is fan content so go wild and have fun, but just please PLEASE don't ask for an official terminator kill team.
I had previously thought that a “1st & 10th” type unit might be an interesting way to bring terminators into kill team. Have something like 2 terminators paired with 4 scouts. And maybe a special rule that the scouts have to use an action to place a homing beacon to let the terminators teleport onto the board in that location. I’m sure it would be a nightmare to balance right, but seems to fit the idea of kill team better than just plopping a squad of 4/5 terminators down
I 100% proxy 4 Custodes as 4 generic terminators. Old school Space Hulk style. No muss no fuss, the leader is the sarg model.. yup no heavy weapon.. but 'close enough' translation, and nobody gets pissy I am trying to make shit up. 3 Bog Standard looking Termies, with a Sarg and no model confusions either. Yeah it would be way cooler to use the Power Fist rules but I mean.. its really no biggie to just use the spear stats since theyre so solid as is comparatively. We all know some day they will make it to the game, just a matter of time..
I love Kill Team, but the rules do not match the fantasy. 4 Custodes would wipe the floor with literally any other team. 6 Astartes should would do the same with any of the 10-14 'human' teams. Five Terminators would match up to the rest of the teams in a similar fashion to how four Custodes would, but it would break my brain seeing 5 Terminators against 6 Intercessors and thinking it could be a close fight in any way. All that said, formatting looks nice, maybe bump down to 3 or 4. 1 leader and 3 squad members or Chaplain, Librarian, Captain/Sergeant.
Custodes do wipe. They are untouchable in most weapons and the wounds that make it through are like tickles, they can also take 2 enemies out per turn in most situations, the only way to beat them is avoid and play secondaries and/or split their attention Space marines on the other hand, i think it 100% accurate for a narine team to get beat by vet gaurd, wyrmblade. Kasrkin ect, any hoard army makes since since they all have access to weapons that usally punch holes in tanks and are usally dropping like flies if they dont play very carefully, like most groups should against marines Also marines are so swingy lore wise who knows what they can and cant beat
From what i've seen Custodes do wipe the floor with the other teams, i've played them a few times and rarely lost a model, they only way they lose is that the other guys are too many and they have to divide their attention between hunting them down and trying to complete their own objectives. But yes powescaling in the warhammer verse never makes sense.
When I play vs 4 man Custodes I just focus on scoring the objective.
As the old adage goes: *You don't have to outrun the Custode, you just have to outrun your allies.*
I played them once. Didn't even make a dent in them.
Its likely a warp coven team beats 4 custodes in the lore. 3 full thousand son sorcerers and 3 rubrics, one with a soul reaper, is going to at least go even with 4 custodes. But if they flex to 2 custodes 5 sisters of silence, I think the only team that challenges them is harlequins.
It would be interesting to see someone to try to make a rule set that balances around lore. 1 termie or custodian would be able to take on many full teams in the lore.
We need datasheets!
Came here to say this. My play group has been experimenting with adding other characters and I’d love to compare others home brews to ours and see where the balance may lie.
Need datasheet, I am excited for this project!
It needs a lot more simplification - model it like the intercession team. Leader: Sergeant (Stormbolter & Powersword) Assault Sergeant (Lightning claws / Thunderhammer & Storm shield) Operatives: Terminator warrior (Stormbolter & Powerfist/chainfist) Assault warrior (Lightning claws / Thunderhammer & Storm shield) Heavy (Assault cannon / Cyclone launcher with Stormbolter / Heavy flamer & Power fist) I'd make it 4 operatives. And then look at custodes, use their stats as a guide.
The formatting on this is great! Did you use a particular program or website? I'd love to make some of my own custom teams
Just google slides hahaha
this sub needs more people like you who trive to create new units or teams to bring our favorite models to the field, can't wait to see the full rules
my heart stopped for a moment
Tbh, I think a Terminator team is fine at 5 models. Keep their movement and APL the same as Marines. *maybe* lower movement like Death Guard. Make their wounds a bit beefier. And give them several auxiliary operatives: CATs and servo skulls with some abilities that lets them interact with mission related actions amd any other neat interaction (like a servo skull that can be a spotter for the cyclone).
That's exactly what I was thinking of. The movement I was planning to be 4" and when I get is tested either 2 or 3 APL. I want to add more auxiliary operatives, the only problem I'm having is coming up with roles. if you have any to suggest I am more than willing to take suggestions. Pardon me for not knowing but what does CAT stand for?
I'll check when I get home, but it's the little tracked drone like Navy Breachers have. Introduced in Space Hulk tho, used by Space Marines to scout for the terminators breaching.
Hmmmm, might give this a swing with my old 90s metal deathwing termies. They’d be laughably scaled down and small, but seems like it’d be fun! Thanks for the rules OP
The terminator conversation is very cyclical. 1. They don’t fit the surgical nature of kill teams. 2. Put them up against 4 custodians, and the custodians will probably win. Put 5 or 6 terminators against anything else and the terminators clean house. They do not balance well in this setting. 3. Objectives based scenarios they might lose. Kill em all they will win, usually. 4. They should be used in GM scenarios or narratives. Making them a legit team will mess up game balance again, just like in KT18. (I’m expecting the down votes… but I don’t want a broken game.)
I think you missed a mild trick in not adding a relic Terminator option, that and I'll join in and say should be a four man team like the banna boys Could also be themed around a certain chapter, blood angels are classic but I think dark angels are better. Gives you the chance for nice fallen themed options
its way too strong in so many ways, dude.
I would like to create a team for fun, is there a website I should go to create lists and edit data cards ?
S’all photoshop and illustrator for miles my dude
I just used google slides to make this. If you want the datacard templates I do have them saved.
That would be awesome ! :)
Damn… 5 termies that’s a lot
And not just any termies. We are talking about a Captain/Librarian/Chaplain running around with an Apothecary, a heavy gunner, AN ANCIENT, and an extra termie just so they dont get lonely. And who knows what a comms terminator is capable of!
Imagine how the 10 kroot feel , or the 12 random chaos guardsman fighting 5 terminators 💀
I applaud your efforts but Kill Team's core rules make it almost impossible to support a Terminator team that is both balanced and lore accurate-ish. Take Custodes, they had to go down from APL4 to APL3 to make them balanced, and in the process they both became unviable to run as 4 Custodes teams and feeling like slightly bigger, boring Space Marines. Good luck, though, and feel free to make use of the many Terminator homebrew rules already on this sub <3
i dunno about a comms guy, these fellas are all already linked into each others vox channels and vid feeds.
This is a fun idea. I'm painting up my Leviathon box and was gonna run the Termies as Custodes and the Infernus as Flamer Sisters, but I'd be down to test this out. Seems fun.
Didn't someone made a really good termie killteam at ine point Also tbh I'd just proxy heavy intercessors
why can't the captain take a thunder hammer?
Awesome! I made a terminator KT myself but only with Sgts, warriors and gunner, for shoot and assault. Hope to see how it goes with your version :D
Not gonna comment on the roster or rules since you didnt provide any datasheets so not really much to say there. But I will say that I think we are long overdue a terminator killteam. I think having a captain or librarian as your leader might be a bit excessive for the sort of scope kill team aims at lore-wise but otherwise this could be a neat project. Bonus points for allowing special warrior/assualt loadouts to be taken if the team choses certain chapters as their keyword (dark angels could take deathwing, space wolves could take wolf guard, salamanders could take firedrakes, etc.). Would be neat to get some more interesting weapon options through a choice like this when making the team!
There should only be 4 like the custodes
Im amazed that Terminator Kill Team isnt a thing since theres a Genestealer KT and the Void Wars terrain. Itd be like the old Space Hulk games.
After reading the stats and considering it, I think you could play 5 termies vs 2 other teams in a 3 way game. If playing 1 v 1, if you play 5 termies vs another modern team, I think you need to multiply the regular team by 1.5. You don’t need to add special characters (, gunner, death jester, etc.) but you need the extra regular bodies.
A terminator fire squad has includes one Terminator. He has 50 wounds.
Stats, plz :')