Same here. I have a Legionary killteam and my only available opponents are Starstriders and Kommandos and I pretty much always lose because I can't find a balance between 'not immediately losing marines in TP1 to dynamite rush or archeotech beam' or 'losing because I deployed so conservatively that I have no board presence'.
I've also yet to have a good experience with melee specialists because, frankly, the attrition from trying to take down any random ork never feels worth it, and I'm always jealous of the Starstrider's assassin because the unit is at least honest about being a glasscannon you have to handle with care before sending it out to probably kill a marine in two crits.
Yes, I'm frequently told Legionaries are a good team against kommandos, but never in any helpful detail. It just confirms my suspicion that I'm too dumb for Killteam. Maybe I should try a horde team so I have units whose death means someone more useful didn't get killed instead of immediately losing a unique team function. But I already kinda regret the time I invested to kitbash and paint up my legionaries, so I don't know.
Best guess against the starstriders is to play a bit concealed. They are just great at dealing with elite teams, and you'll get the canon at some point. But for that they need voidsmen, which are really squishy.
If you can pick one or two it will make it way more awkward for them to use their ship weapon. Also keep in mind that they need it already in position so you can guard and try to shoot them up before they move in.
To deal with the assassin I like the shrivetalon, and using the balefire acolyte in melee is really no joke. Striking first against it you are almost sure to get rid of it.
If they pile up reducing their APL is nice as well.
Often time the heal of the balefire allowed an operative to heal enough to be able to trade again in combat. And some blast/splash action can be really nice if they are group as it can happen with them, always fun to annihilate the medic as a collateral that they left a bit too close to use their Rez.
Starstriders are scary but they can be punished hard if they go out of position, and from having played them, and against they can struggle to hold obj.
I would maybe not take the gunner, or take it with flamer.
I hate kommandos with all my heart when I'm not the one playing them, especially dat snippa git
Bro I feel you. I have the same. I've been playing fairly regularly for a year, once a week, and during that time I've only managed to win a few times. I even took part in a tournament, where I took the penultimate place.I talked to a guy who played with the same team as me(then Corsair) and was second. I told him how I see this team, how I think they should be played, etc. He confirmed that I understood correctly and that's how he plays with them. So it comes out that I am just too dumb for this game
I play kommandos so they have no weakness because GREEN IZ BEST
Also they suck in most ranged combat and since you keep most of them concealed 80% of the time it won't even be an option. And their armor is almost non existent
Kommandos are so fun. I get half my kills with ranged with them. It's all about trading better than your opponent and putting them in bad positions to punish you.
My Rokkit Boy does a huge amount of work for me. I usually try to be pretty kunnin' with him and give him a lot of extra APL from the Comms Boy or the Nob. Then doing my best to line up the dreaded standstill get rerolls manoeuvre with him (and maybe running away after to safety).
Likewise the Snipa Boy can really put the hurt out on a good roll when firing from concealed. Otherwise he's a pesky nuisance, chipping wounds so my other Boyz can move in for the kill.
As Kasrkin, any team with more than 6 operatives lmao. I would really love for Kasrkin to get a buff, sometimes I donāt even want to play them anymore because they perform so poorly. Lately Iāve been running vet guard, who feel like Kasrkin, but better in almost every way
My issue with Kasrkin is when my opponent rolls saves. Like, cut that out. I just got two crits and a hit and you're taking 1 crit. Stop. Stop doing that.
Play a few games against elucidian starstriders.
I love my rogue traders for taking out marines, being able to shoot 2 AP2 6/7 damage 4 attacks shots in a game is a quick and easy delete button for 1/3rd of your team (24 damage if all hit and none crit it crazy)
I fully stopped using them when the guys in my group play any kind of marine team (intercessor, phobos, legionary) because most games ended by TP 2/3.
Before the q3 balance dataslate, the no-cover rule obliteretes your operatives, as you could say goodbye to your cover save and the aditional dice of roge.
It was a hard time to play kroot.
Mmmmmmm maybe, i dont really keep the record. I just know that I went to a tournament not long after the launch of in to the Dark.... and got abused of that rule.
Every match somehow they have a way to have no cover. Intercesors being the worst ofenders.
Super weird change, would be interested to see how No Cover reducing the cover dice to a single one would do; right now it's a useless rule against Kroot which feels bad.
We where dumber than that. We understand that as no cover negates auto retain of the dice, not one but any that comes from being in cover, so it negates too the one from the pasive too
.... so no retain with a 5+ save... It didnt end well
Well, that's how it worked before the Rogue ability was changed, so you did that correctly <3
I'm just curious if No Cover would still be too strong if it got rid of one of the two automatic cover dice.
At least i could read correctly and not being fooled by the oponent. That's a relief.
Well, it will be mostly the same outcome that with a normal bolter vs a vet guard or any 5+ dude. That auto dice is gold
And 2 of them makes you deceptively hard to kill, as on average on 4shoots guns only 2 goes in on a 4+ roll , so zero dmg from most "small arms" fire such as lasguns or autoguns.
Going from 2 auto to 2 rolls at 33% is painfull. Even then, going to 1 auto feels bad as it is your "unique" trait for the whole team.
Imagine being capable of bullying the kasarkin out of elite points. Or the blooded the tokens. Or the charge from conceal of komandos... etc
Well, it is a Special Rule, it's not available to every weapon, and having 1 Cover Dice is still strong.
Probably would be nice to have 4+ Saves on Kroot to offset it.
Yes yes. That's true. Is not universal rule .
I think the idea was, strong in cover, toast outside cover.
I think that the last patch is something powerfull that was needed. But i prefer it to read that you gain the dice even if something negates your cover, and It would be golden.
You are killed if they flank you still, but avoids the feelsbad for example, the Pathfinders markerlight abuse, is a bit less letal.
Pathfinders : you can forget about melee. Especially against Kommandos, who will always be in Conceal and will use tis but a scratch to mess your plan.
Corsairs : really powerful ploys but oh boy if you use that ploy at a suboptimal time of the game, you will remember it. Also don't go in melee against full HP opponents. You may win, but your operative will be crippled.
Novitiates : same as Corsairs but with Faith Acts. Don't burn them too much. Duellist is useless. Except for the occasional Plasma Shot and the boosted flamer, you don't have a lot of damage spikes potential. Some of your operatives have auras, which need AP to activate. Weird when it is a melee operative.
Pathfinders are the perfect counter to commandos. Equip 5 high intensity marker lights, paint your target(s), remove cover. I absolutely annihilated a squad of commandos w this trick. Rail rifles up high, everyone else on the ground doing markersš«
My opponent was hugging walls in Conceal so Heavy Cover. He also used Skulk About on TP 2-3 when some of his operatives were behind Light Cover, so he had always at least one automatic save. Mission was about controlling three middle objectives near debris (Octarius Map).
Thatās brutal! Thatās how it goes sometimes I suppose! Be willing to lose your drones and chaff pathfinders. Try to bait the concealed charges. Utilizing the entire map is going to be important. Ideally youāre looking at building an inverse wedge imo. I run 10 guys + Recon Drone. Donāt be afraid to be aggressive with non special pathfinders. Terrain is so important to tau! Aggressive use of your two silent shooters in conjunction with your bait is most potent. Remember the kauyon, shasāo
Obviously killing the few main shooters kommandos have is first priority. It is possible with a good round one. Pushing the objectives is the hard part for sure, killing orks isnāt š Baiting charges off the objectives is ideal.
For now I am a Corsair player, and the lack of dice modificatio. Yes, the weapons are scsry specially on 2APL+free dash, but if you make your whole strategy on one punch blow, well, dice will screw you. The key I have found to work is catch your opponent off guard with fast plays and operatives scattered all over the board.
Void Dancer have Gegorach's jest, murderous entrance, ruthless derision, the saedath epic, melodrama and tragedy to change dice outcomes. They are nowhere as in a bad place as the outcast and rapid strike of the corsairs...
For the Kin it's melee and fast/aggressively plays. My goal is to basically hold me side of the board and outscore secondaries. If someone's already in my shit tp1 I struggle to come back.
But proximate fire power makes fairly short work of anyone why gets close, at least in my experience. Can't forget about dishing out lots of grudge tokens once you lose a few guys.
Oh yeah I usually take Proximate firepower 3 outta 4 turning points. That + Grudge tokens and an attack order there is not a lot of threats you can't put down in one shot. This issue is that your still gonna be fighting on your back foot, and it can be an uphill battle keeping assault intercessors or hordes of cultists in that sweet spot.
My bloodlust. I threw a whole game by charging my opponents leader trying to get Headhunter in the second turning point even though my guy was on a point and I had control of the whole map. That one stupid decision lost me the whole game and I knew it the moment I failed to get the kill and then had to play the rest of the match out even though I knew I'd given it away. Although they are Space Wolves so I think I was playing them thematically right?
Vet Guard - I hate blast, especially if it's combined with impressive mobility. The squishiness of my models means that I have to hide them out of LOS or behind heavy cover, especially in the first few turns. If you can get a good blast onto a bunch of my operatives I'm going to have a bad time.
Also, any tricks that you have that let you remove multiple models on your turn - if you've got the ability to move, fight, then somehow move again/fight again, I'll be sad.
My heavy hitters are: Sergeant with Plasma Pistol, Plasma Gunner, Melta Gunner, Demolitions, Sniper. If I lose many of these early on, I'm really going to struggle to kill anything. Killing my Commsman is also a good way of pulling my teeth early, as it neuters my orders and makes the Demolitions much less effective.
Anything that shuts down rerolls is horrible for me, as I rely heavily on Take Aim to make my shooting less shitty.
If you're an elite team I expect to lose a model against you every time you activate - that's absolutely fine for me, as I'll kill you right back, and still come out on top (I've got 14 models, I'll trade at 1 for 1 all day every day). It's when I start losing multiple models to a single activation that I start to worry, especially if I lose my heavy hitters or my ability to juice up my shooting via orders...
Void-dancers: They have 2 weaknesses - people reading their rules, and people not being afraid and just bullying them right back.
The Clowns can't take any hits, any weapon with 5+ attacks melts their 4+ saves, and any team with melee weapons with 4+ normal damage turns every single Fight into a coin flip and forces lots and lots of CP, which is how the Clowns lose <3
Warpcoven: super cp hungry, and if you lose even one sorcerer it's a major feels bad moment. I often struggle with how aggressive or not to use sorcerers. cause if you play too cagey then you're leaving off most of your damage and tricks but if you play too aggressively see the feels bad.
Talons: plasma, just fucking hate plasma.
Wyrmblade is as simple as if we can't see enough of you T1 it's gonna be a very uphill battle for the duration of the game
Cult ambush and crossfire combined are potent but once CA is gone, we are pretty weak with BS4+ and 2/3 damage on autoguns
Our biggest weakness is an opponent who's played against our team before. Bigger chance they see our shenanigans coming. That isnt to say that I dont explain how CA works and preternatural assassin works, but you have to play against it to know what's going on
Win or lose, the game is always more fun when our opponent is having fun and you can tell they dont have fun when they have all of these "gotcha" moments that comes from open information.
My Vet Guard KT hate my friends Hierotek Circle.
I've won pretty much all my games with Vet Guard because I ruthlessly go for objectives and consistently know what the game plan is.
My friends Necrons are the only team I can't beat due to my worst enemy. Lucky dice rolls. I kid you not he can roll crit after crit and then counter every move I make.
Before people say his dice are weighted, we went through 4 peoples dice sets and the results were frightening.
Some people just have luck tattooed to their ass.
Oh, I feel you...
Especially fun when you're the opposite kind of player - I rolled only 1s and 2s on 3 Gellerpox Hulk fights back to back; 16 dice all below 3...
And my opponent Rerolled normal hits to hope for and get crits xD
You've done Farstalkers, so I guess I'll talk Kasrkin.
The first thing that draws the eye is their reliance on Elite points, but the added drip-feed really helps mollify that as a weakness. In practice, if you spend Elite points wisely your individual operatives feel really good, if you misjudge a *few* expenditures throughout the game they're still fine, and if you spend them poorly you're going to have a team of glorified Guardsmen. The extra per-turn Elite points add more a buffer for making errors like those, so it all works.
Their biggest weakness, in my experience, is that they do exactly one thing well ā reliable shooting at high value targets. Almost every operative in their roster exists to do that or to help with that. If the team *can't* do that, whether because they've been successfully rushed down in melee or because they're up against hordes, then they're a bit rudderless.
Kasrkin have a few tools to escape or avoid situations they dislike ā Reposition for avoiding melee or moving onto objectives, Covering Fire for Falling Back out of melee, Demo-trooper for blocking off melee approaches, For Cadia! with a combat knife for hitting back in melee when needed, flamers and volley guns for sweeping out hordes ā but these are often underwhelming, or feel like they require more deliberate set-up and preparation for an effect that other Kill Teams get off the cuff.
When faced with a situation or match-up they don't like, Kasrkin basically just have to play the mission ā which they're not *amazing* at. The Vox-trooper helps a lot in that area, but it's still a 10-model team with APL2 and no free mission actions. Lacking the Special Forces Strategic Ploy from Tempestus Scions is a real blow in that area.
As a Death Guard player my teams biggest weakness is easily unreliable dice. Movement can be a pain but thereās ways to work around it. Dice on the other hand, if the dice gods hate you that day, then your not rolling many if any successful 5+ feel no pains. That, and my Plague Marine Champion attempts really hard to commit suicide whenever I overcharge his plasma pistol.
Oh yes one must not anger the dice gods for they are fickle, and the stinky boys are sooooo slow. Although when you negate an entire attacks worth of wounds in one shot that kinda makes it worth it.
Hunter Clade:
\- Open boards with lots of light terrain and vantage points
\- No grenades, and no ways to ignore conceal -> useless against silent
\- Some terrain layouts where it's impossible to fit 40mm bases
\- Concealed units 1" behind a barricade as they are in god-mode against charges (If you can't fit the base you can't charge). Rustalkers just can't deal with that with the current rules. Specially hard in ITD on narrow corridors.
I can think of 3 for chaos cults:
1. no real ranged weapons. we get absolutely snockered by intercessors and pathfinders if the map isn't built well enough.
2. they're very swingy. A few instances of bad rolls and the game can very well be over to blast weapons and priority targeting.
3. I'm terrible at playing them and they keep getting nerfed because apparently they're really good despite me never winning with them.
Keep getting nerfed?
I'm sorry dude, but the changes are well deserved. They were one of the strongest teams of all time.
The damage reduction brings them in line with other teams. That's fair.
I played them competitively and won 19/21 games with them.
I've got some tips for you though
https://1drv.ms/w/s!AuAMvFm03XaagjwTnFMC0ykAHdYq?e=fIEF97
Fair fights.
If HotA can't punish a weakness (mobility, clustering, exposed operatives, etc.) the plan falls apart real quick. They need to trade up constantly, take an early lead, or risk clawing defeat out of the jaws of victory.
Funnily enough, Farstalker are very strong into Gellerpox - you can kill the small buggers who Gellerpox need for scoring with impunity, and you can both redirect the Hulks with your Hounds and dish out huge damage at any range, even in melee.
I failed 5 melee dice on an injured Hulk, took 5 Mortal Wounds for failing so hard thanks to the Cutskin's ability, and then took the damage from all the melee dice he didn't fail xD
edit: This was on Open Board, of course, where Farstalker can use their mobility much much better and where Gellerpox have difficulty hiding their small guys.
Faction: Being shot back. Hunter Clade are one of the only teams with 7-wound operatives that don't have the numbers to back it up. Your sicarians are a bit better at 10W, but your objective grabbers and shooting power are all skitarii and they can die so fast, especially if your opponent double shoots or has buffed damage through equipment or just rolls hot.
My team specifically: trying to make the Transuranic Arquebus work. It never does but I keep trying.
I just find that against a lot of teams he can't perform because the inability tomove and shoot means you can't set up nonreciprocal shooting, the 2AP to shoot means you can't get into cover/concealment afterwards, and if you don't one-shot an opponent (which against elites you're unlikely to) you're going to be taking at least overwatch fire back (and your own lack of overwatch means if you don't kill, there's no risk to trying to set up a shot against him)
I bounce between warp coven and talons of the emperor. My biggest weakness for warp coven is that I keep forgetting about my 30 gorillion psychic powers that I have since I usually run 3 sorcerers in a team. That and also just being a bit more aggressive with my team, especially trying to get my tzangors into melee. As for my Talons, well I run them as a 4 man Custodes team so I mostly struggle with just having the numbers against me and playing things smart
The biggest weakness of my Intercession squad kill team is my sergeant. He can't take a plasma pistol and a thunder hammer into battle which is bombad stupid. (Yet Assault Intercessor Sergeants can take that load out in standard 40k) so I just don't get it
Otherwise, I'd also say that I don't have the tactical ploy like the firstborn to make them into zombies which REALLY hurts.
I play Phobos strike team. I'd say the biggest issue with them is the lack of wounds a model has. Most other teams (non-compendium anyway) tend to have either at least 80 wounds between all the models, ways to sustain health (hierotech circle), or ways to avoid taking damage through movement or restricting movement (void dancers). Phobos only have 73 wounds between all team members. I think a +1 to the wounds of both normal phobos operatives and the leader would be a positive change. Now, you could make the argument that Phobos can change to conceal to help with avoiding damage after turn point 1, but I find myself often needing to move, shoot, shoot (vanguard and bolter discipline) in order to remove key targets, score primary, and score my secondary objectives which are often recon. Unfortunately the 3/4 damage and lack of AP on most Phobos models' guns makes it difficult to kill enemies with average damage if those enemies have 8+ wounds, hence the need to often shoot twice to kill a target.
I also believe that the Phobos Strike Team's commsman model needs a buff. You see, most other commsman equivalent models on other teams tend to either add to an ally's APL or subtract from an enemy's APL. The phobos commsman, on his turn, can allow a visible ally to perform an action that isn't any form of movement. Very weak compared to other commsman models in my opinion. I think also being able to add APL would be nice, but at the very least they should allow an ally to perform movement actions.
I don't think these two changes would make phobos OP or even necessarily put them on par with A or S rank teams. I can think of a lot of other potential buffs to the team's ploys and tac ops, but I do think these two changes I pointed out are reasonable. No phobos won't be OP, but it may make them the best B tier team or even a low A tier team. I think Phobos, as they are now, are actually very well balanced. However, most teams in the game are unbalanced either positively or negatively. GW isn't great at balancing this game's teams and half the teams in the game can be considered A or S tier. Even kasrkin, wyrmblade, and pathfinders had some nice buffs this last dataslate, where kasrkin may likely be a strong contender all of a sudden. It constantly feels like GW is overbuffing or undernerfing the teams and I just want Phobos to be on par with A tier teams cause I think they deserve it.
My teams greatest weakness is the player piloting them.
This! After a lost battle, it feels that my miniatures are trying to escape my hand when putting them back into their box again š
āCommander, we canāt lose. Everything we have beats anything they have.ā āDonāt tell me what I can and cannot do!ā
Same here. I have a Legionary killteam and my only available opponents are Starstriders and Kommandos and I pretty much always lose because I can't find a balance between 'not immediately losing marines in TP1 to dynamite rush or archeotech beam' or 'losing because I deployed so conservatively that I have no board presence'. I've also yet to have a good experience with melee specialists because, frankly, the attrition from trying to take down any random ork never feels worth it, and I'm always jealous of the Starstrider's assassin because the unit is at least honest about being a glasscannon you have to handle with care before sending it out to probably kill a marine in two crits. Yes, I'm frequently told Legionaries are a good team against kommandos, but never in any helpful detail. It just confirms my suspicion that I'm too dumb for Killteam. Maybe I should try a horde team so I have units whose death means someone more useful didn't get killed instead of immediately losing a unique team function. But I already kinda regret the time I invested to kitbash and paint up my legionaries, so I don't know.
Best guess against the starstriders is to play a bit concealed. They are just great at dealing with elite teams, and you'll get the canon at some point. But for that they need voidsmen, which are really squishy. If you can pick one or two it will make it way more awkward for them to use their ship weapon. Also keep in mind that they need it already in position so you can guard and try to shoot them up before they move in. To deal with the assassin I like the shrivetalon, and using the balefire acolyte in melee is really no joke. Striking first against it you are almost sure to get rid of it. If they pile up reducing their APL is nice as well. Often time the heal of the balefire allowed an operative to heal enough to be able to trade again in combat. And some blast/splash action can be really nice if they are group as it can happen with them, always fun to annihilate the medic as a collateral that they left a bit too close to use their Rez. Starstriders are scary but they can be punished hard if they go out of position, and from having played them, and against they can struggle to hold obj. I would maybe not take the gunner, or take it with flamer. I hate kommandos with all my heart when I'm not the one playing them, especially dat snippa git
Bro I feel you. I have the same. I've been playing fairly regularly for a year, once a week, and during that time I've only managed to win a few times. I even took part in a tournament, where I took the penultimate place.I talked to a guy who played with the same team as me(then Corsair) and was second. I told him how I see this team, how I think they should be played, etc. He confirmed that I understood correctly and that's how he plays with them. So it comes out that I am just too dumb for this game
Ooh self burn!
those are rare
***TRUUUUUUUE***
This deserves all the upvotes
How dare you allege that I am using your models, I'm nowhere near you!
Beat me to it "my dice rolls"
Second this! most of the time I've lost so far there was always something I should not doš
I play kommandos so they have no weakness because GREEN IZ BEST Also they suck in most ranged combat and since you keep most of them concealed 80% of the time it won't even be an option. And their armor is almost non existent
Who needs Dakka when you got Choppas and Who needs armor when you have 10 wounds and tis but a scratch.
Indeed š but I still see those as their biggest weakness. Alternatively, from the orks perspective: the grot
Kommandos are so fun. I get half my kills with ranged with them. It's all about trading better than your opponent and putting them in bad positions to punish you.
My Rokkit Boy does a huge amount of work for me. I usually try to be pretty kunnin' with him and give him a lot of extra APL from the Comms Boy or the Nob. Then doing my best to line up the dreaded standstill get rerolls manoeuvre with him (and maybe running away after to safety). Likewise the Snipa Boy can really put the hurt out on a good roll when firing from concealed. Otherwise he's a pesky nuisance, chipping wounds so my other Boyz can move in for the kill.
Loooooove to play against Kommandos, there are always strong and always fun, such a good team <3
Dakka Dakka ploy will really up your ranged output. The sluggas are red hot turning point 2 for me
As Kasrkin, any team with more than 6 operatives lmao. I would really love for Kasrkin to get a buff, sometimes I donāt even want to play them anymore because they perform so poorly. Lately Iāve been running vet guard, who feel like Kasrkin, but better in almost every way
My issue with Kasrkin is when my opponent rolls saves. Like, cut that out. I just got two crits and a hit and you're taking 1 crit. Stop. Stop doing that.
Fr, like dude I just used 5 elite points so I could have a hit and a crit and then you pull this armor save BS on me.
Kasrkin look cool though
For real, our biggest strength is swagger
I'm stealing this! Hahaha
I feel you, comrade!
Intercessors: no one wants to fight me anymore lol
Play a few games against elucidian starstriders. I love my rogue traders for taking out marines, being able to shoot 2 AP2 6/7 damage 4 attacks shots in a game is a quick and easy delete button for 1/3rd of your team (24 damage if all hit and none crit it crazy) I fully stopped using them when the guys in my group play any kind of marine team (intercessor, phobos, legionary) because most games ended by TP 2/3.
I want to fight a fun Kill Team, not a bunch of angry roadblocks xD
I love fighting marines - Kasrkin player
Before the q3 balance dataslate, the no-cover rule obliteretes your operatives, as you could say goodbye to your cover save and the aditional dice of roge. It was a hard time to play kroot.
That change happened back in Q1, no?
Mmmmmmm maybe, i dont really keep the record. I just know that I went to a tournament not long after the launch of in to the Dark.... and got abused of that rule. Every match somehow they have a way to have no cover. Intercesors being the worst ofenders.
Super weird change, would be interested to see how No Cover reducing the cover dice to a single one would do; right now it's a useless rule against Kroot which feels bad.
We where dumber than that. We understand that as no cover negates auto retain of the dice, not one but any that comes from being in cover, so it negates too the one from the pasive too .... so no retain with a 5+ save... It didnt end well
Well, that's how it worked before the Rogue ability was changed, so you did that correctly <3 I'm just curious if No Cover would still be too strong if it got rid of one of the two automatic cover dice.
At least i could read correctly and not being fooled by the oponent. That's a relief. Well, it will be mostly the same outcome that with a normal bolter vs a vet guard or any 5+ dude. That auto dice is gold And 2 of them makes you deceptively hard to kill, as on average on 4shoots guns only 2 goes in on a 4+ roll , so zero dmg from most "small arms" fire such as lasguns or autoguns. Going from 2 auto to 2 rolls at 33% is painfull. Even then, going to 1 auto feels bad as it is your "unique" trait for the whole team. Imagine being capable of bullying the kasarkin out of elite points. Or the blooded the tokens. Or the charge from conceal of komandos... etc
Well, it is a Special Rule, it's not available to every weapon, and having 1 Cover Dice is still strong. Probably would be nice to have 4+ Saves on Kroot to offset it.
Yes yes. That's true. Is not universal rule . I think the idea was, strong in cover, toast outside cover. I think that the last patch is something powerfull that was needed. But i prefer it to read that you gain the dice even if something negates your cover, and It would be golden. You are killed if they flank you still, but avoids the feelsbad for example, the Pathfinders markerlight abuse, is a bit less letal.
Pathfinders : you can forget about melee. Especially against Kommandos, who will always be in Conceal and will use tis but a scratch to mess your plan. Corsairs : really powerful ploys but oh boy if you use that ploy at a suboptimal time of the game, you will remember it. Also don't go in melee against full HP opponents. You may win, but your operative will be crippled. Novitiates : same as Corsairs but with Faith Acts. Don't burn them too much. Duellist is useless. Except for the occasional Plasma Shot and the boosted flamer, you don't have a lot of damage spikes potential. Some of your operatives have auras, which need AP to activate. Weird when it is a melee operative.
Pathfinders are the perfect counter to commandos. Equip 5 high intensity marker lights, paint your target(s), remove cover. I absolutely annihilated a squad of commandos w this trick. Rail rifles up high, everyone else on the ground doing markersš«
My opponent was hugging walls in Conceal so Heavy Cover. He also used Skulk About on TP 2-3 when some of his operatives were behind Light Cover, so he had always at least one automatic save. Mission was about controlling three middle objectives near debris (Octarius Map).
Thatās brutal! Thatās how it goes sometimes I suppose! Be willing to lose your drones and chaff pathfinders. Try to bait the concealed charges. Utilizing the entire map is going to be important. Ideally youāre looking at building an inverse wedge imo. I run 10 guys + Recon Drone. Donāt be afraid to be aggressive with non special pathfinders. Terrain is so important to tau! Aggressive use of your two silent shooters in conjunction with your bait is most potent. Remember the kauyon, shasāo
Obviously killing the few main shooters kommandos have is first priority. It is possible with a good round one. Pushing the objectives is the hard part for sure, killing orks isnāt š Baiting charges off the objectives is ideal.
are you telling me Eldar and Sisters are suspiciously similar in Killteam too?
Happy cake day ! I did not, I was pointing to my opinion that Faith Acts are powerful but you must be careful to not overuse them.
For now I am a Corsair player, and the lack of dice modificatio. Yes, the weapons are scsry specially on 2APL+free dash, but if you make your whole strategy on one punch blow, well, dice will screw you. The key I have found to work is catch your opponent off guard with fast plays and operatives scattered all over the board.
Well, at least the ploys are bad enough to leave you with CPs for a few rerolls!
Same on Void-dancers but at least you can chicken out once per Turning Point with Curtain Falls...
Void Dancer have Gegorach's jest, murderous entrance, ruthless derision, the saedath epic, melodrama and tragedy to change dice outcomes. They are nowhere as in a bad place as the outcast and rapid strike of the corsairs...
For the Kin it's melee and fast/aggressively plays. My goal is to basically hold me side of the board and outscore secondaries. If someone's already in my shit tp1 I struggle to come back.
But proximate fire power makes fairly short work of anyone why gets close, at least in my experience. Can't forget about dishing out lots of grudge tokens once you lose a few guys.
Oh yeah I usually take Proximate firepower 3 outta 4 turning points. That + Grudge tokens and an attack order there is not a lot of threats you can't put down in one shot. This issue is that your still gonna be fighting on your back foot, and it can be an uphill battle keeping assault intercessors or hordes of cultists in that sweet spot.
lore accurate Dwarves
My bloodlust. I threw a whole game by charging my opponents leader trying to get Headhunter in the second turning point even though my guy was on a point and I had control of the whole map. That one stupid decision lost me the whole game and I knew it the moment I failed to get the kill and then had to play the rest of the match out even though I knew I'd given it away. Although they are Space Wolves so I think I was playing them thematically right?
yes
Vet Guard - I hate blast, especially if it's combined with impressive mobility. The squishiness of my models means that I have to hide them out of LOS or behind heavy cover, especially in the first few turns. If you can get a good blast onto a bunch of my operatives I'm going to have a bad time. Also, any tricks that you have that let you remove multiple models on your turn - if you've got the ability to move, fight, then somehow move again/fight again, I'll be sad. My heavy hitters are: Sergeant with Plasma Pistol, Plasma Gunner, Melta Gunner, Demolitions, Sniper. If I lose many of these early on, I'm really going to struggle to kill anything. Killing my Commsman is also a good way of pulling my teeth early, as it neuters my orders and makes the Demolitions much less effective. Anything that shuts down rerolls is horrible for me, as I rely heavily on Take Aim to make my shooting less shitty. If you're an elite team I expect to lose a model against you every time you activate - that's absolutely fine for me, as I'll kill you right back, and still come out on top (I've got 14 models, I'll trade at 1 for 1 all day every day). It's when I start losing multiple models to a single activation that I start to worry, especially if I lose my heavy hitters or my ability to juice up my shooting via orders...
I play novitiates, the biggest weakness is 2 of my stat ploys are garbage and im weak as shit with 7 wounds
Void-dancers: They have 2 weaknesses - people reading their rules, and people not being afraid and just bullying them right back. The Clowns can't take any hits, any weapon with 5+ attacks melts their 4+ saves, and any team with melee weapons with 4+ normal damage turns every single Fight into a coin flip and forces lots and lots of CP, which is how the Clowns lose <3
Warpcoven: super cp hungry, and if you lose even one sorcerer it's a major feels bad moment. I often struggle with how aggressive or not to use sorcerers. cause if you play too cagey then you're leaving off most of your damage and tricks but if you play too aggressively see the feels bad. Talons: plasma, just fucking hate plasma.
Wyrmblade is as simple as if we can't see enough of you T1 it's gonna be a very uphill battle for the duration of the game Cult ambush and crossfire combined are potent but once CA is gone, we are pretty weak with BS4+ and 2/3 damage on autoguns
Our biggest weakness is an opponent who's played against our team before. Bigger chance they see our shenanigans coming. That isnt to say that I dont explain how CA works and preternatural assassin works, but you have to play against it to know what's going on
There's an element of that too, I'll explain both but that's always to our detriment as it takes away our strongest ability, surprise
Win or lose, the game is always more fun when our opponent is having fun and you can tell they dont have fun when they have all of these "gotcha" moments that comes from open information.
Yeah I've still had some fun moments when my opponent has tried to counter my gotchas and I hit with another he forgot about lol
My own hubris usually, haha.
My Vet Guard KT hate my friends Hierotek Circle. I've won pretty much all my games with Vet Guard because I ruthlessly go for objectives and consistently know what the game plan is. My friends Necrons are the only team I can't beat due to my worst enemy. Lucky dice rolls. I kid you not he can roll crit after crit and then counter every move I make. Before people say his dice are weighted, we went through 4 peoples dice sets and the results were frightening. Some people just have luck tattooed to their ass.
Oh, I feel you... Especially fun when you're the opposite kind of player - I rolled only 1s and 2s on 3 Gellerpox Hulk fights back to back; 16 dice all below 3... And my opponent Rerolled normal hits to hope for and get crits xD
You've done Farstalkers, so I guess I'll talk Kasrkin. The first thing that draws the eye is their reliance on Elite points, but the added drip-feed really helps mollify that as a weakness. In practice, if you spend Elite points wisely your individual operatives feel really good, if you misjudge a *few* expenditures throughout the game they're still fine, and if you spend them poorly you're going to have a team of glorified Guardsmen. The extra per-turn Elite points add more a buffer for making errors like those, so it all works. Their biggest weakness, in my experience, is that they do exactly one thing well ā reliable shooting at high value targets. Almost every operative in their roster exists to do that or to help with that. If the team *can't* do that, whether because they've been successfully rushed down in melee or because they're up against hordes, then they're a bit rudderless. Kasrkin have a few tools to escape or avoid situations they dislike ā Reposition for avoiding melee or moving onto objectives, Covering Fire for Falling Back out of melee, Demo-trooper for blocking off melee approaches, For Cadia! with a combat knife for hitting back in melee when needed, flamers and volley guns for sweeping out hordes ā but these are often underwhelming, or feel like they require more deliberate set-up and preparation for an effect that other Kill Teams get off the cuff. When faced with a situation or match-up they don't like, Kasrkin basically just have to play the mission ā which they're not *amazing* at. The Vox-trooper helps a lot in that area, but it's still a 10-model team with APL2 and no free mission actions. Lacking the Special Forces Strategic Ploy from Tempestus Scions is a real blow in that area.
I fell you, comrade! That's so fucked up that such a cool looking gang is so bad designed :(
My ability to actually have peo0le to play games with.
As a Death Guard player my teams biggest weakness is easily unreliable dice. Movement can be a pain but thereās ways to work around it. Dice on the other hand, if the dice gods hate you that day, then your not rolling many if any successful 5+ feel no pains. That, and my Plague Marine Champion attempts really hard to commit suicide whenever I overcharge his plasma pistol.
Oh yes one must not anger the dice gods for they are fickle, and the stinky boys are sooooo slow. Although when you negate an entire attacks worth of wounds in one shot that kinda makes it worth it.
Farstalker are und good in melee?
Remind yourself that overconficence is a slow and incidious killer.
These nightmarish creatures can be felled, they can be beaten!
We fall so that we may learn to pick ourselves up
Hunter Clade: \- Open boards with lots of light terrain and vantage points \- No grenades, and no ways to ignore conceal -> useless against silent \- Some terrain layouts where it's impossible to fit 40mm bases \- Concealed units 1" behind a barricade as they are in god-mode against charges (If you can't fit the base you can't charge). Rustalkers just can't deal with that with the current rules. Specially hard in ITD on narrow corridors.
I can think of 3 for chaos cults: 1. no real ranged weapons. we get absolutely snockered by intercessors and pathfinders if the map isn't built well enough. 2. they're very swingy. A few instances of bad rolls and the game can very well be over to blast weapons and priority targeting. 3. I'm terrible at playing them and they keep getting nerfed because apparently they're really good despite me never winning with them.
Keep getting nerfed? I'm sorry dude, but the changes are well deserved. They were one of the strongest teams of all time. The damage reduction brings them in line with other teams. That's fair. I played them competitively and won 19/21 games with them. I've got some tips for you though https://1drv.ms/w/s!AuAMvFm03XaagjwTnFMC0ykAHdYq?e=fIEF97
I play with Hinter Cadre (yay eggsuits!) and their biggest weakness is melee. You stand almost no chance there.
Lack of people to play with ~~And the custodes really need a re-release~~
Fair fights. If HotA can't punish a weakness (mobility, clustering, exposed operatives, etc.) the plan falls apart real quick. They need to trade up constantly, take an early lead, or risk clawing defeat out of the jaws of victory.
This is why I love the Torment Grenade. You can practically guarantee that someone is going to get wrecked by it TP1.
Phantasm can also do some absolute silliness if it lands, I love it on a 4+.
Me.
GW nerfing them
Hearthkin salvagers weakness is they're short
Their big weapons are compensating
Funnily enough, Farstalker are very strong into Gellerpox - you can kill the small buggers who Gellerpox need for scoring with impunity, and you can both redirect the Hulks with your Hounds and dish out huge damage at any range, even in melee. I failed 5 melee dice on an injured Hulk, took 5 Mortal Wounds for failing so hard thanks to the Cutskin's ability, and then took the damage from all the melee dice he didn't fail xD edit: This was on Open Board, of course, where Farstalker can use their mobility much much better and where Gellerpox have difficulty hiding their small guys.
Faction: Being shot back. Hunter Clade are one of the only teams with 7-wound operatives that don't have the numbers to back it up. Your sicarians are a bit better at 10W, but your objective grabbers and shooting power are all skitarii and they can die so fast, especially if your opponent double shoots or has buffed damage through equipment or just rolls hot. My team specifically: trying to make the Transuranic Arquebus work. It never does but I keep trying.
Depends on the map mostly, my arquebus is always the mcp cause he'll get up into a covered vantage point. If he doesn't make it up there he's doomed
I just find that against a lot of teams he can't perform because the inability tomove and shoot means you can't set up nonreciprocal shooting, the 2AP to shoot means you can't get into cover/concealment afterwards, and if you don't one-shot an opponent (which against elites you're unlikely to) you're going to be taking at least overwatch fire back (and your own lack of overwatch means if you don't kill, there's no risk to trying to set up a shot against him)
I think our maps just need work cause mine can usually just see the half the map. And i get gross dice rolls
> mine can usually just see the half the map From a vantage? Yeah that definitely sounds a bit broken.
Yeah we use random shit for it, but also it's just my friends so we really don't care
I play wyrmblade and all our operatives except our heroes are made of wet tissue paper and a light breeze will kill then
The time it takes me to plan out the sequence of activations and their initial placement.
I bounce between warp coven and talons of the emperor. My biggest weakness for warp coven is that I keep forgetting about my 30 gorillion psychic powers that I have since I usually run 3 sorcerers in a team. That and also just being a bit more aggressive with my team, especially trying to get my tzangors into melee. As for my Talons, well I run them as a 4 man Custodes team so I mostly struggle with just having the numbers against me and playing things smart
Dying
doing anything that requires more than 4 people
Me
Being a compendium team.
They die to pathfinder Markerlight bullsht
:)
its kasrkin
The biggest weakness of my Intercession squad kill team is my sergeant. He can't take a plasma pistol and a thunder hammer into battle which is bombad stupid. (Yet Assault Intercessor Sergeants can take that load out in standard 40k) so I just don't get it Otherwise, I'd also say that I don't have the tactical ploy like the firstborn to make them into zombies which REALLY hurts.
Compendium tyranids. Torrent/blast
My biggest weakness? The fact that I play tomb world crons cause i cant find an HC box
I play Phobos strike team. I'd say the biggest issue with them is the lack of wounds a model has. Most other teams (non-compendium anyway) tend to have either at least 80 wounds between all the models, ways to sustain health (hierotech circle), or ways to avoid taking damage through movement or restricting movement (void dancers). Phobos only have 73 wounds between all team members. I think a +1 to the wounds of both normal phobos operatives and the leader would be a positive change. Now, you could make the argument that Phobos can change to conceal to help with avoiding damage after turn point 1, but I find myself often needing to move, shoot, shoot (vanguard and bolter discipline) in order to remove key targets, score primary, and score my secondary objectives which are often recon. Unfortunately the 3/4 damage and lack of AP on most Phobos models' guns makes it difficult to kill enemies with average damage if those enemies have 8+ wounds, hence the need to often shoot twice to kill a target. I also believe that the Phobos Strike Team's commsman model needs a buff. You see, most other commsman equivalent models on other teams tend to either add to an ally's APL or subtract from an enemy's APL. The phobos commsman, on his turn, can allow a visible ally to perform an action that isn't any form of movement. Very weak compared to other commsman models in my opinion. I think also being able to add APL would be nice, but at the very least they should allow an ally to perform movement actions. I don't think these two changes would make phobos OP or even necessarily put them on par with A or S rank teams. I can think of a lot of other potential buffs to the team's ploys and tac ops, but I do think these two changes I pointed out are reasonable. No phobos won't be OP, but it may make them the best B tier team or even a low A tier team. I think Phobos, as they are now, are actually very well balanced. However, most teams in the game are unbalanced either positively or negatively. GW isn't great at balancing this game's teams and half the teams in the game can be considered A or S tier. Even kasrkin, wyrmblade, and pathfinders had some nice buffs this last dataslate, where kasrkin may likely be a strong contender all of a sudden. It constantly feels like GW is overbuffing or undernerfing the teams and I just want Phobos to be on par with A tier teams cause I think they deserve it.