* **Deflect** triggers before the fight starts. (Before **Attacker**)
* **Vicious Reflexes** makes you the **Attacker** if you were the **Defender**.
Edit: **Deflect** happens first. Clarified in a FAQ below.
Vicious reflexes does not change the roles. The active operative stays as attacker and the target operative as defender. It just allow to resolve a die before the attacker.
Interesting point. Enough that I hunted down the FAQ I recalled about it. So this is how they consider it. Edit: Ironically I just needed to view all the posts.
Q:
Some rules allow you to resolve a hit before the attacker (e.g. Bladed Stance ability, VOIDSCARRED KURNATHI). How do these interact with the LEGIONARY SHRIVETALON’s Vicious Reflexes ability?
A:
Vicious Reflexes changes the order of dice resolution, but rules such as Bladed Stance happen before the order of dice resolution. As a result, Bladed Stance would allow the VOIDSCARRED KURNATHI to parry first, then normal dice resolution would begin, starting with the LEGIONARY SHRIVETALON operative.
Yeah it seems the faq has this covered! The vicious works as it does and if defender the operstive gets the first resolve.
The deflect does not specify a role so the fellgor operative gets two resolves in a row
Tbh. It sounds like they interpret Vicious as swapping Attacker/Defender roles? Which is cool and the way I'd want it.
But both RAW do have identical triggers. This would be a prime rule for a rewrite if they ever get around to a rule cleanup.
Yeah this has been a wild ride :D it does seem that there is two "phases" special and normal. So the fellgor coul parry before the attacker outside the attack sequence and then attack as attacker.
Vicious would affect the attack sequence so fellgor does the parry, then vicous ability lets the legionary go first in the attack sequence.
In the FAQ of Legionary, it says that in this instance you would resolve the Deflect before the Shrivetalon.
https://preview.redd.it/hjqhqah92n7c1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c88679acfebcbca7cd342463db959c7a81ca6e30
The active operative who attacks is "attacker" and the target operative is the "defender"
So in this case I would say the if the fellgor operative is the attacker, the deflect ability has no use.
The legionary is the target so defender. Vicious reflexes say "if defender" so it triggers. Which allows them to resolve a hit dice first. The ability does not change the attacker / defender roles so wont affect the fellgor deflect ability.
The Deflect ability doesn't specify that you need to be the defender for it to apply. Even as the attacker, the Fellgor can parry before resolving it's first action as attacker.
Defender goes first. Then the Fellgor Deflect ability resolves to parry a dice. Then combat begins as normal with the attacker.
This question has been answered in the FAQ
Q: If my operative has a rule that allows me to resolve a hit before the attacker (e.g. Bladed Stance ability, VOIDSCARRED KURNATHI), can I use that rule when I’m the attacker?
A:
Yes. In such instances, the VOIDSCARRED KURNATHI could parry, then you (as the attacker) would resolve the first hit in the normal order of dice resolution.
So, in the case above :
Fellgor is attacker.
Fellgor can resolve one dice before attacker.
Legionary is defender.
Legionary always resolves before attacker.
So, in combat sequence :
1. Both players roll dice.
2. Felgor resolve 1st dice, only to Parry. If he doesn't want to Parry, he can't resolve.
3. Legionary resolve 1st dice because Vicious Reflexes. Parry or Strike.
3. Felgor resolve second dice : Parry or Strike.
4. Go on with Fight Sequence.
Looks like: the defender (shrivetalon) goes first; then it would be the attacker so the fluxbray gets to parry before the attacker (fluxbray) resolves a hit, then the attacker (fluxbray) gets to resolve a hit.
>Q: If my operative has a rule that allows me to resolve a hit before the attacker (e.g. Bladed Stance ability, VOIDSCARRED KURNATHI), can I use that rule when I’m the attacker?
>
>A: Yes. In such instances, the VOIDSCARRED KURNATHI could parry, then you (as the attacker) would resolve the first hit in the normal order of dice resolution.
From the core rules FAQ. These abilities seem to be intended to allow something the basic rules do not.
Seems so! So defender goes first, then attacker can parry, then normal fight sequence where attacker goes first!
Just painting my fellgor team so good to know as this def would have been one I would have gotten wrong
Deflect doesn't have any effect as the Fluxbray is the attacker , and it would be allowing him to go before himself; which doesn't make sense.
Then vicious reflexes allows the Shrivetalon to resolve a hit first.
But if you think using the defensive profile when attacking somehow does make sense then this is in effect:
>If more than one rule would happen simultaneously, for example two rules that take effect at the end of a Turning Point, the player with the initiative determines the order in which they take effect.
* **Deflect** triggers before the fight starts. (Before **Attacker**) * **Vicious Reflexes** makes you the **Attacker** if you were the **Defender**. Edit: **Deflect** happens first. Clarified in a FAQ below.
Vicious reflexes does not change the roles. The active operative stays as attacker and the target operative as defender. It just allow to resolve a die before the attacker.
Interesting point. Enough that I hunted down the FAQ I recalled about it. So this is how they consider it. Edit: Ironically I just needed to view all the posts. Q: Some rules allow you to resolve a hit before the attacker (e.g. Bladed Stance ability, VOIDSCARRED KURNATHI). How do these interact with the LEGIONARY SHRIVETALON’s Vicious Reflexes ability? A: Vicious Reflexes changes the order of dice resolution, but rules such as Bladed Stance happen before the order of dice resolution. As a result, Bladed Stance would allow the VOIDSCARRED KURNATHI to parry first, then normal dice resolution would begin, starting with the LEGIONARY SHRIVETALON operative.
Yeah it seems the faq has this covered! The vicious works as it does and if defender the operstive gets the first resolve. The deflect does not specify a role so the fellgor operative gets two resolves in a row
Tbh. It sounds like they interpret Vicious as swapping Attacker/Defender roles? Which is cool and the way I'd want it. But both RAW do have identical triggers. This would be a prime rule for a rewrite if they ever get around to a rule cleanup.
Yeah this has been a wild ride :D it does seem that there is two "phases" special and normal. So the fellgor coul parry before the attacker outside the attack sequence and then attack as attacker. Vicious would affect the attack sequence so fellgor does the parry, then vicous ability lets the legionary go first in the attack sequence.
In the FAQ of Legionary, it says that in this instance you would resolve the Deflect before the Shrivetalon. https://preview.redd.it/hjqhqah92n7c1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c88679acfebcbca7cd342463db959c7a81ca6e30
Good point the ability reads very similary to the fellgore ability
The active operative who attacks is "attacker" and the target operative is the "defender" So in this case I would say the if the fellgor operative is the attacker, the deflect ability has no use. The legionary is the target so defender. Vicious reflexes say "if defender" so it triggers. Which allows them to resolve a hit dice first. The ability does not change the attacker / defender roles so wont affect the fellgor deflect ability.
The Deflect ability doesn't specify that you need to be the defender for it to apply. Even as the attacker, the Fellgor can parry before resolving it's first action as attacker. Defender goes first. Then the Fellgor Deflect ability resolves to parry a dice. Then combat begins as normal with the attacker.
Yeah seems so! Weird but the ability indees does not specify the role!
This question has been answered in the FAQ Q: If my operative has a rule that allows me to resolve a hit before the attacker (e.g. Bladed Stance ability, VOIDSCARRED KURNATHI), can I use that rule when I’m the attacker? A: Yes. In such instances, the VOIDSCARRED KURNATHI could parry, then you (as the attacker) would resolve the first hit in the normal order of dice resolution. So, in the case above : Fellgor is attacker. Fellgor can resolve one dice before attacker. Legionary is defender. Legionary always resolves before attacker. So, in combat sequence : 1. Both players roll dice. 2. Felgor resolve 1st dice, only to Parry. If he doesn't want to Parry, he can't resolve. 3. Legionary resolve 1st dice because Vicious Reflexes. Parry or Strike. 3. Felgor resolve second dice : Parry or Strike. 4. Go on with Fight Sequence.
Would it be then 1. Defender normal resolve 2. Attacker with parry 3. Attacker normal resolve ?
Looks like: the defender (shrivetalon) goes first; then it would be the attacker so the fluxbray gets to parry before the attacker (fluxbray) resolves a hit, then the attacker (fluxbray) gets to resolve a hit.
The core rules state that the players will alternate resolving dice, so I would argue the attacker cannot resolve 2 in a row.
>Q: If my operative has a rule that allows me to resolve a hit before the attacker (e.g. Bladed Stance ability, VOIDSCARRED KURNATHI), can I use that rule when I’m the attacker? > >A: Yes. In such instances, the VOIDSCARRED KURNATHI could parry, then you (as the attacker) would resolve the first hit in the normal order of dice resolution. From the core rules FAQ. These abilities seem to be intended to allow something the basic rules do not.
Seems so! So defender goes first, then attacker can parry, then normal fight sequence where attacker goes first! Just painting my fellgor team so good to know as this def would have been one I would have gotten wrong
Deflect doesn't have any effect as the Fluxbray is the attacker , and it would be allowing him to go before himself; which doesn't make sense. Then vicious reflexes allows the Shrivetalon to resolve a hit first. But if you think using the defensive profile when attacking somehow does make sense then this is in effect: >If more than one rule would happen simultaneously, for example two rules that take effect at the end of a Turning Point, the player with the initiative determines the order in which they take effect.