That just gave me a visual of James and Harden as teammates. Bron just struggling to meet in the middle like, “Ok James, you can go to the titty bar but I’m going with you, I’m bringing film, and you’re gonna talk me through some play calls. Also, I called around and every strip club in Houston has a half court out back now.”
Kinda like Kareem with the skyhook, although with Harden the stepback 3 is a staple move of all-star shooters while the skyhook never really took off with other players in Kareem's generation or later.
He should be credited with influencing a large portion of the footwork and ball handling used to create space during this era of of NBA perimeter players
I think he’ll have a better version of Nash’s legacy. Both were repeatedly stopped by the dynasties of their time, both were elite offensive engines for revolutionary D’Antoni offenses. Both ringless but had great individual and team regular season success. Harden will hold up better because both his counting stats and the dynasty that stopped him were much better
I dunno. Harden became inefficient every playoffs (43/34/87). Nash's game did not dip at all (47/41/90 career playoffs). They're volume is incomparable. But Harden's shot deserted him most years.
They aren't really similar players though. Harden was much much more of a scorer, so of course his counting stats will be better lmao. Nash was a true PG, and shouldn't really be compared to Harden.
Harden is not a top 5 offensive player of all time lol. You can’t fall off that hard after turning 30 and in be in that convo. Just in his generation alone I’m taking kd/steph/jokic.
Both were actually mad clutch in the playoffs. Barkley was great in the 93 Finals but had the misfortune of going up against the GOAT.
Nash may not be remembered as such, but he had some monster playoff performances and just had some terrible luck on top of his teams matching up poorly against the dynastic Spurs.
Harden may not have the same quality of playoff performances, but if you’re giving Barkley/Nash credit for going up against Jordan/the Spurs, people will hopefully give some credit to Harden for having to go up against the Warriors
He was eliminated by the Warriors in 15, 16, 18 and 19. Those were the majority of his prime years in Houston and it just happened to coincide with one of the greatest dynasties/teams ever.
Yeah I have no doubt Harden would have at least 1 ring if his and the Rockets' peak didn't line up almost perfectly with one of the all time great dynasties.
It is but he played amazingly in that series. Like that was simply not a meltdown. His team was playing terribly and he's just not top 15 player all time good. Also, as you mentioned, KD was only out for game 6. If those rockets had played against a kd-less warriors, you wouldn't expect them to sweep. I think it was a little unlucky that it just was one of those games they'd lose.
> Barkley was great in the 93 Finals but had the misfortune of going up against the GOAT.
Yeah, like the pivotal G4…Barkley puts up 32/12/10/3/1 w/ only 1 TO only for Jordan to drop 55/8/4 incl a dagger point play
It’s crazy that the real finals was in the second round that year lol but yeah that suns team probably has an even better case than the 02 kings or 06 mavs for being robbed of a ring. A lot of shady shit happened while Stern was the commissioner of the league.
Barkley literally had an 0/10 playoff game against Hakeem. Nash also had a classic Harden 2/11 game and **5** 3/11 games. You might have just accidentally proven that people will forget Harden's duds lmao.
Facts lol. Revisionism happens all the time and after a while, people tend to only remember the positives (for retired players) especially if they're well liked in the media afterwards.
Thus is true but the comment said a tenth of hardens duds and it actually holds true. This list has always stuck with me but OP has deleted so I can't credit him/her anymore:
Here is hardens notable playoff duds up until 2018. Someone can add the last 7 years if you want a more complete list but it's the most damning record I've ever seen for a mvp
4-11 G4 11 wcsf down 1-2
2-9 G3 11 wcf tied 1-1
7 points G4 11 wcf down 1-2
4-13 G4 12 wcf down 1-2
2-10 G3 12 Finals tied 1-1
2-10 G4 12 Finals down 1-2
9-22 G3 13 WC1 down 0-2
4-12 G4 13 WC1 down 0-3
7-22 G6 13 WC1 down 2-3
8-28 G1 14 WC1 at home
6-19 G2 14 WC1 down 0-1
13-35 G3 14 WC1 down 0-2
9-21 G4 14 WC1 down 1-2
5-15 G5 14 WC1 tied 2-2
5-12 G4 15 WCSF down 1-2
5-20 G6 15 WCSF down 2-3
3-16 G3 15 WCF down 0-2
2-11 G5 15 WCF down 1-3
11-26 G3 16 WC1 down 0-2
4-13 G4 16 WC1 down 1-2
5-16 G4 17 WC1 up 2-1
8-25 G5 17 WC1 up 3-1
3-17 G2 17 WCSF up 1-0
2-11 G6 17 WCSF down 2-3
No one is capable of forgetting that much if you actually watched the career
That is the nuance to these conversations isn't it?
It is a team sport tying someones greatness to a title isn't especially logical even in a game like basketball where one guy can have so much impact. But I feel like the great players without titles really at least had games of note where they went out on their shield and just lost to better teams.
Harden has so many pivotal games that you can look at and really pin the loss on him.
One of the Rockets biggest playoff wins during his time there was game 6 of the 2015 WCSF against the Clippers where the Rockets came back from down 20 in the 2nd half facing elimination. The comeback was led by Josh Smith and Corey Brewer of all people with Harden shooting 5-20 and riding the bench during most of the comeback. That game along with other of his elimination game performances aren’t going to have him remembered as a winner unless he really flips it his last few years like Dirk did in 2011.
I'd say the game 7 following that game where Harden took over and secured the upset was a bigger playoff win but go ahead lmao
That team having their seeding and making the WCF is the work of Harden. Him having one bad game doesn't change that, especially when he stepped up and closed out the series.
Except he was good in Games 5 and 7 that were also elimination games. Game 6 Klay saved Curry's ass vs Thunder in 2016 so he could shine in G7, but somehow Harden isn't allowed to get carried by teammates at all.
>but they are also specifically remembered as non-winners
Just because people are fucking stupid. Just because you didn't win a ring, it doesn't mean you're a "non-winner".
Some responsibility falls on the fans that continue to tune in, click, etc. The only reason that trash like that is still on is because people eat it up. The networks don’t care. They just want money.
Nah I hate this take. It's supposed to be the whole job of an analyst to teach people the game of basketball and what is and isn't important.
They just gave up and decided to go for easy money and rage bait then actually provide value to the game itself.
If a teacher in school decides that all they gonna do for the school year is play CoD and eat cheerios it's not gonna be the kids fault for "eating it up".
Barkley didn’t win a ring but I’ve never heard people consider him a non winner
I don’t even hear people mention the suns meltdowns against the rockets two years in a row
Yeah he’ll get zero respect from me. A refball pioneer who mastered a traveling stepback with legs flinging forward. Basically unguardable but for the wrong reasons. Remember how guys would literally guard him from behind? Refball is a blight on the beautiful game and his legacy is a heaping trash can full of zero chips.
I’m with you on harden being a red ball pioneer but the warriors benefitted from the refs more than anyone. Bogut confirmed what we all saw with our eyes.
A lot of nephews will be seeing his stats on Basketball Reference asking why he isn’t ranked higher all time.
Bill Simmons said one of the reasons he wrote his book was so that people didn’t retroactively rank Karl Malone higher and he wanted to make sure the context was there for how good he actually was relative to his gaudy stats. Maybe he’ll do an updated version for Harden lol
Bill also said current Westbrook was better than Harden before the trade this season. He’s a hot take artist now, it’s been a long time since he wrote that book
Is it really a hot take if you write a compelling, well researched, and thought-out article to back it up? Bill is just a pro yapper now but back in the Grantland days he was legit a great sportwriter.
He was. But I loved him for writing 15k words on nonsense. Don't get it wrong... He had a lot of good takes too. But Lord, could he just waterboard you with words to talk you into a silly metaphor or hot take.
Those old page2 and then grantland articles got me through some long days.
I get what you're saying and agree that he's always had his own kind of odd contrarian streak but to me a hot take is just some absurd half baked shit you throw out to get as much attention as possible in the moment. Bill has always had some absurd takes but hot takes and outlandish sports debates shows are synonymous in my eyes. Just a semantic thing ultimately but even when Bill was writing novellas on whatever goofy sports shower thought he had it still hit totally different than the hot take podcast yapping that everyone including Bill does now.
People won't rank Malone high because he is a d-bag, but his resume as a player is ridiculous. Most top 10 PPG finishes NBA history:
t1: 14 Karl Malone and Lebron
t3: 13 Kareem and Kobe
Most top 5 PPG finishes
t1: 13 Karl Malone and Lebron
3: 12 Kobe
Most top 3 PPG finishes:
1: 11 MJ
2: 10 Lebron
t3: 8 Karl Malone, Shaq, AI, Kobe and Kareem
And this is PPG not total points were he really shines. Malone was also efficient, a great rebounder and a strong defender.
True, I found 4 times they lost to lower seeds under Sloan:
89 vs 51 win Jazz lost to 43 win warriors
90 vs 55 win Jazz lost to 54 win suns
95 vs 60 win Jazz lost to 47 win rockets who added Drexler midseason and won the chip
99 vs 37 win Jazz lost to 35 win Portland
Malone still has a higher playoff PPG than players like Shaq, Bird and Kareem and has the 10th highest ppg among players with 100 playoff games (would be 6th without the Laker year).
I don't really know where to rank Malone myself, but I think his career could be one of the biggest whatifs in NBA history which is wild because of how durable both he and Stockton were. Without MJ Karl Malone would 3peat as MVP and have 5 scoring titles including 4 in a row. He would also probably have 2 titles and be a clear top 5 player ever.
the thing I dislike about his Malone takes is him acting as if he was crunching tape on the Jazz in the late 80s. they were never on TV and they didn't even really get on SportsCenter that often because they did not have an exciting style of play. Stockton 16/4/14, Malone 28/12/2, Jazz win. Stockton 18/5/12, Malone 32/13/3, Jazz lose. after a decade of that people just took them for granted. his argument that KJ was better than Stockton because he was never scared of Stockton is just the absolute dumbest take ever
Win-loss only he’s 697-375. So yeah one could saying he’s a winning player. Plus a few of the accolades under his belt will help his legacy.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/james-harden-career-win-loss-record
I don’t know about winner, but I definitely think he got done dirty for how he is treated nowadays. Sure, he drew fouls alot but that aside, he was doing crazy shit we never seen, same with Westbrook and we trash both these legends. The fans nowadays ain’t got no respect and it’s a shame how we treat active legends on the tail end of their career.
I will always remember him for setting the tone for the entire NBA with the foul baiting and traveling step back 3 (and the strip clubs, and the fat suit, and all the other off the court drama). I don't know if he was the one to set the change in motion, or if he was even the first star to do it like I think he was, but that is the landmark in my memory of when I stopped watching the nba for a decade.
Things just never broke his way when he was on teams that had a chance to actually win. You don't get that many cracks at actually winning a chip, and in 2018 and 2021 when he was on teams that could actually do it they got fucked by injuries.
But never missing the playoffs, averaging 28/6/7 on 59% TS as a starter in his prime across like 150 playoff games, averaging 36ppg in a season when the next closest scorer was at 28ppg (compared to now when 5+ guys are breaking 30 every season), giving up money multiple times to try and improve his basketball situation, carrying some bumass rosters way deeper than they should've gone, and then basically sacrificing his prime playing 3 playoff games on a torn hamstring including all 53 mins of an OT game 7 to try and win in Brooklyn... dude definitely deserves more praise than he gets.
The series before his hamstring injury, he averaged 28/7/11 on 77% TS in the first round. He was playing the best brand of basketball he ever played that season - that West Coast road trip without KD was fucking awesome to watch.
Since playing on the injury, he's barely been able to average 20ppg.
There are significantly worse playoff performers than him that don't have every single thread made about them spammed with HUR DURR PLAYOFFS, and it's always a huge double standard with him when it comes to "big games." A game is only "big" if he doesn't do well in it it seems, but dude has plenty of big time clutch moments.
Another underrated part about him is how much work he puts in with the young guys on every single team he's been on. People love to talk shit about him as a teammate for some reason, but he's helped so many young players with their development and would always put in extra practice time with them. They all talk about it, but nobody ever recognizes it.
That team was 42-3 in the regular season when Harden, CP3, and Capela played together. Including post season it was like 50-5.
Prior to the post season the team as a whole never lost two games in a row.
Over a 30 game stretch at one point they went 29-1.
Health kept the regular season team to a 70+ win record and obviously from beating the Warriors.
I think a lot of his playoff criticism is an unfortunate side affect of how amazing he was during the regular season. Outside of a few elimination games, his playoff statistics measure well with many of the greats of the game. They just seem bad because his prime regular seasons are unfathomably amazing.
I always thought it was because of the rosters. Most of his rosters were meh and the stars he got were usually past their prime and declining in comparison to other greats.
They also failed to ever get another really good ball-handler until CP3. Draymond straightforward up said their strategy was to make James tired from dribbling and doing so much.
It isn’t a side effect. It’s because the playoffs are just significantly harder because teams prep specifically to stop you instead of hopping on a plane immediately after their previous night’s game and flying over to your city and then doing it all over again 82 times in the regular season. Harden’s legacy will always be marked by what happened to him in the playoffs, just like Demar DeRozan’s.
He was an elite player but he was stopped consistently in the playoffs.
I make fun of him a lot but Ill always remember Harden as a guy who was so good that he almost made Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson legitimate 2nd and 3rd options on title contending teams.
I think a lot of people don’t recognize how good that team was with really lack of 2nd and 3rd options. No one was getting past Golden State those years
Not even a big fan of Jim Harden, but I almost wish for his legacy that CP doesn’t hurt his hammy and/or they make like 5 out of those 27 straight missed threes
People only think of being a winner with titles. But Harden basically made the playoffs every season. Won so much in the regular season, made many conference finals. Like he is a winner in the EXACT way Chris Paul is a winner. In fact Hardens a bigger one.
Harden's gonna be remembered for his:
- Stepback threes
- Face being 85% beard
- Flailing legs while shooting a jump shot to get contact (and the rule change that followed)
- Being a diva that forced his way off 3 teams
- Dominant highs and unbelievably dogshit lows in playoffs (dude is still the only superstar player I have ever seen get benched in a 4th quarter of an elimination game for being terrible)
- Getting robbed of MVP in 2017 because voters were blinded by the triple double average by Russ, even though Harden genuinely was better and took his team to 3rd seed
- Almost beating the dominant 2018 Warriors if it wasn't for CP3's injury
Stayed with Houston until the wheels fell off
Didn’t want to be in Brooklyn with a teammate who wouldn’t take a jab to win games
Left Philly because he took a pay cut to try to help the team on the promise he’d get the money back and was lied to and not given the money back
exactly, not as some poster said "Being a diva that forced his way off 3 teams", the context matters. He played his heart out in brooklyn through injury too, never looked the same
He was also completely in the right to force his way off those teams tbh. Rockets refused to fess up the money to pay players to surround him, the nets had Kyrie being a mess, not playing half the year and harden was forced to play on a shredded hamstring that probably took years off his career, and the Sixers probably promised him a max then didn’t give it.
beating that warriors team would have ended all talks of him being not able to win. shame cp3 went down and we aren’t able to erase that from
his legacy or his even cp3s legacy
I don't hold lack of playoff success against Harden tbh. He had some very successful years, multiple CF runs, a Finals run (albeit a key bench player) ...
It's more his volatility, huge ups and huge downs.
But yeah, man they were so unlucky to with CP3 injury in 2018. Would have been an all time upset.
i think a lot of people forget what type of co stars he had during these runs in playoffs. he had a lot of weight on his shoulders to carry. and sometimes not the best coaches…
Nah, 2019 was Giannis. It was close, but the voters got it right. Giannis was a 2 way monster and led his team to 60 wins and 1st seed. Winning should matter.
Also, Giannis averaged 28/13/6 on 64% TS and finished 2nd in DPOY. Giannis should have won handily, but the voters rightfully took into account that the Rockets had so many injuries and Harden carried the fuck out of them.
36ppg when the next closest is 28 is absolutely insane. The Bucks were a really good team, the Rockets were missing CP3, Capela, and Gordon for a huge amount of the season and Harden carried hard. It shouldn't be on him that the others missed months at a time and he was having to win games with end of bench guys lol
If it were any other player but harden who had that 36ppg average they probably would have won MVP. Harden missed out on MVP in 2017 because Russ averaged a triple double which hadn't been done since Oscar Robertson so he won it but when Harden averaged 36 which hadn't been done since MJ he didn't deserve it
I’d take him over giannis that year but have no problem with giannis winning it, was close in my eyes. 2017 he lost because he averaged 2 less rebounds than russ. Had a better record and more efficient scoring season on similar volume but lost because we arbitrarily value hitting double digits in categories.
I get why he won it because kd just left okc and people were rooting for russ and were also swept up in the hype and history and magic of the season, especially the last game where he had like a 50 point triple double and hit the game winner, but I think we can retrospectively see harden had a better season
Doesn't help when you have media members like Zach Lowe and Bill Simmons actively campaigning for people to never vote for Harden again, literally saying after 2018 that no matter what happens they weren't going to vote for him again lol
Giannis was playing DPOY level *help defense* that wouldn't have been anywhere near as good if Brook played closer to 50 or 60 games like Harden's teammates than he did 80.
Harden's team wasn't whole. He had to play insane minutes and an insane amount of games to keep them afloat, and he did a really damn good job of it given the circumstances. To only win 7 less games with CP3 only playing like 55 games, and Capela and Gordon only playing like 65 is unreal.
Remember that Harden, CP3, and Capela had a like 93% winrate when they played together in 2018, but CP3 and Capela just weren't healthy enough in 2019. That's not Harden's fault.
Thank you for saying he was robbed during that westbrook season. IMO (ive always been a westbrick hater tbf) Westbrook had a great seasons but definitely stat padded and got help with his triple doubles by Steven Adams and team let him get rebounds over them. They also were like the 6th * seed that year
He absolutely will be remember fondly. He'll be remember as the team that was beating the KD warriors until CP3 went down injured.
Of everything in his legacy. His team was up there with the best team of all time, ring or not. He'll be remembered as fondly if not greater than Nash and Barkley are.
One of the greatest scores of our time. If he plays a couple more years he's ending in the top 10 all time scorers and close to top 10 in assists.
If he ends up top 10 in both, there is only 1 other person in that company. LBJ.
The man is one of the best offensive engines in history.
Harden has a rough reputation because of his foul baiting play, shot chucking in all-star games, weird mvp speech and reputation for strip clubs and porn stars. But the dude is absolutely an all time legit player who worked really really hard at his game and did his best to drag his teams further than they had any right to go. And at his peak he was right up there with LeBron, Steph and KD as a guy you could argue was the best player in the league for a period of 3-4 years.
James Harden might've been at the wrong place at the wrong time to win chips, but goddamn did his playoffs chokes not help his chances at all. That's what great winning players do, put the team on their back. Idk about being remembered as a winner.
most of his "chokes" were when series weren't winnable anyway. he's generally really great at the games *before elimination* to avoid being in like 3-0 or 3-1 situations, but once a series is hopeless it would get bad.
the other part of the coin here is that a lot of his elimination game stats come from series where his team was the one eliminating the other team in 4 or 5, and that would often be against teams like the Jazz or TWolves who were obsessed with doubling/tripling him even if it meant them getting blown out.
Like in 2018 against the Timberwolves, Harden had 44 in game 1 in a 104 to 101 win. Then, the TWolves decided to triple team the fuck out of Harden in game 2 and he shot like shit but the TWolves lost by 20. Exact same thing in game 5 - they sold out way too hard to try and stop Harden all the way to a 20 pt loss and series over.
Exact same story vs the Jazz that year. When they tried to play Harden more straight up, Harden scored super efficiently and the games were a bit closer. But when they tried to execute some gimmick defense to stop Harden, Harden shot like shit but they blew them out with neither series being close to going past 5 lol
He will be remembered as one of the greatest regular season performers during his peak with the Rockets.
In the playoffs he wasn’t as bad as they make him to be but he does have multiple choke performances in key games.
His greatest achievement will be his MVP and taking the 18 Warriors to 7.
I have him around Iverson.
I think he’ll get that Barkley albatross but it may help him that he’s probably going to the Hall with a fellow albatross wearer in Westbrook (they just seem like they’ll retire around the same time). I don’t think he’ll go down as a winner similar to how we don’t think of Barkley as one. The years will be kind of him as context fades and stats remain. His step back three highlights will be really impressive. No one will watch him on defense ever again after he retires and no one will endure one of his rockets games in totality (that was not entertaining basketball). He may be one where some kids look at his stats and are confused why he wasn’t a “goat.” I think Westbrook will go down much the same.
Won’t be remembered as a winner because his prime coincided with the greatest team in the history of the sport and his one shot outside of that he got hurt and his teammate’s foot was too big
He is that. Before James Harden joined the Houston Rockets, I've always wondered how Manu Ginobili's career would have panned out if he was the star of the show.
I think I have more of a solid idea now. Not taking away from Harden when saying that, but just saying how he's taken that blueprint and ran with it. And it does pay hall-of-fame worthy dividends.
Harden put up some crazy stats in his career, but one I'll always remember was that he had drawn more fouls on 3 point shot than any **TEAM** in the league since 2009. (except Rockets)
By 2021:
1st - Harden 521
2nd - Lakers 439
[source](https://x.com/ESPNNBA/status/1432878602043920390)
KD Warriors and his hamstring injury have distorted our perception but he’ll be remembers for his Rockets run where they almost beat the greatest team assembled in this century.
Best offensive player from the 2010’s, he had some of the worst lowlight compilation but he also he never had the chance to have an healthy team during his prime and Scott Foster for that game 7 in 2018.
One of the ultimate "great career wrong time" players
The accolades he would've won had the warriors not assembled one of the great dynasties of all time right as he was peaking. Years from now there'll still be people going through bballref pages amazed at what he was doing in his prime, just an unbelievable offensive engine
I think he’s going to be remembered for his step back 3 more than anything
I’ll remember him most for having his jersey retired in strip clubs
Thats why he’s my GOAT. I don’t think LeFraud even goes to the strip club
He does, he just takes a private room and watches game film.
Lebron got a photographic memory of all the strippers moves
That just gave me a visual of James and Harden as teammates. Bron just struggling to meet in the middle like, “Ok James, you can go to the titty bar but I’m going with you, I’m bringing film, and you’re gonna talk me through some play calls. Also, I called around and every strip club in Houston has a half court out back now.”
Up there next to Wilt🙏
These are the top two things. Not sure which is the most iconic, but it's definitely one of these.
He is mentioned in one of the top 5 posts in this subs history. That's his real legacy.
[Lol yep](https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/dt0ucg/i_analyzed_james_hardens_performance_in_every_nba/)
He's gonna be remembered as a strip club merchant💔
Kinda like Kareem with the skyhook, although with Harden the stepback 3 is a staple move of all-star shooters while the skyhook never really took off with other players in Kareem's generation or later.
More like dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble step back 3
Step back 3 and foul baiting should be his legacy
Step back travel 3 and foul baiting from cp0 rings is his legacy
I'm gonna remember him for his free throws
Break ankles, shimmy shake at the three point line, probably miss. That’s the Harden I’ll remember.
Probably miss, but get fouled by a guy leaping 6 feet towards him at a 45 degree angle because they feared they if they didn’t he’d drain the shot
They guy would have landed a foot and a half off to the side of Harden, but James jumped sideways taking the shot and got the foul.
Maybe since he left Houston but his peak years he was a monster. To say otherwise is only hating
He should be credited with influencing a large portion of the footwork and ball handling used to create space during this era of of NBA perimeter players
He’ll be remembered for coming very close to defeating the greatest (or 2nd) team ever assembled and is at worst a Top 5 offensive player of all time
I think he’ll have a better version of Nash’s legacy. Both were repeatedly stopped by the dynasties of their time, both were elite offensive engines for revolutionary D’Antoni offenses. Both ringless but had great individual and team regular season success. Harden will hold up better because both his counting stats and the dynasty that stopped him were much better
I dunno. Harden became inefficient every playoffs (43/34/87). Nash's game did not dip at all (47/41/90 career playoffs). They're volume is incomparable. But Harden's shot deserted him most years.
Yeah because Nash just wouldn’t shoot unless it was a wide open shot lmao. Look at TS% harden still compares
They aren't really similar players though. Harden was much much more of a scorer, so of course his counting stats will be better lmao. Nash was a true PG, and shouldn't really be compared to Harden.
Not similar at all but casuals 20 years ago will see the superficial similarities and draw the comparison
Harden is not a top 5 offensive player of all time lol. You can’t fall off that hard after turning 30 and in be in that convo. Just in his generation alone I’m taking kd/steph/jokic.
u mean step step back 3?
He’ll probs get more respect after he retires but I don’t see many viewing him as a winner post-retirement.
yeah nash or barkley are remembered as great, but they are also specifically remembered as non-winners.
and neither of them has 1/10 of the playoff meltdowns that Harden has.
Both were actually mad clutch in the playoffs. Barkley was great in the 93 Finals but had the misfortune of going up against the GOAT. Nash may not be remembered as such, but he had some monster playoff performances and just had some terrible luck on top of his teams matching up poorly against the dynastic Spurs.
Harden may not have the same quality of playoff performances, but if you’re giving Barkley/Nash credit for going up against Jordan/the Spurs, people will hopefully give some credit to Harden for having to go up against the Warriors
that's super fair
I appreciate the rockets for at least trying in that era of Warriors dominance
I doubt many people will criticize Harden for 2018. Every year else tho…
He was eliminated by the Warriors in 15, 16, 18 and 19. Those were the majority of his prime years in Houston and it just happened to coincide with one of the greatest dynasties/teams ever.
Yeah I have no doubt Harden would have at least 1 ring if his and the Rockets' peak didn't line up almost perfectly with one of the all time great dynasties.
Yeah but 2019 is 100% a knock on Harden losong an elimination game when the Warriors didn't have KD.
It is but he played amazingly in that series. Like that was simply not a meltdown. His team was playing terribly and he's just not top 15 player all time good. Also, as you mentioned, KD was only out for game 6. If those rockets had played against a kd-less warriors, you wouldn't expect them to sweep. I think it was a little unlucky that it just was one of those games they'd lose.
People forget that that same warriors core, sans KD, went 73-9 a few years before that. Memories are short
And also getting to the finals as young 6th man on thunder losing to the heatles
as Horry polishes his ring
rangz, rddi0201018, rangz
Tim Donoghey polishes Horry’s ring
I mean 1 of his 7 yeah
> Barkley was great in the 93 Finals but had the misfortune of going up against the GOAT. Yeah, like the pivotal G4…Barkley puts up 32/12/10/3/1 w/ only 1 TO only for Jordan to drop 55/8/4 incl a dagger point play
Plus in 07 it was basically rigged against them. Stupid decision from the NBA that basically gave the Spurs another title
It’s crazy that the real finals was in the second round that year lol but yeah that suns team probably has an even better case than the 02 kings or 06 mavs for being robbed of a ring. A lot of shady shit happened while Stern was the commissioner of the league.
Barkley literally had an 0/10 playoff game against Hakeem. Nash also had a classic Harden 2/11 game and **5** 3/11 games. You might have just accidentally proven that people will forget Harden's duds lmao.
Not to mention barkley blew a 3-1 lead too
Against Houston lmao. Kiss of death
With homecourt.
man that hurts
IKR, no one remembers duds.
Facts lol. Revisionism happens all the time and after a while, people tend to only remember the positives (for retired players) especially if they're well liked in the media afterwards.
Thus is true but the comment said a tenth of hardens duds and it actually holds true. This list has always stuck with me but OP has deleted so I can't credit him/her anymore: Here is hardens notable playoff duds up until 2018. Someone can add the last 7 years if you want a more complete list but it's the most damning record I've ever seen for a mvp 4-11 G4 11 wcsf down 1-2 2-9 G3 11 wcf tied 1-1 7 points G4 11 wcf down 1-2 4-13 G4 12 wcf down 1-2 2-10 G3 12 Finals tied 1-1 2-10 G4 12 Finals down 1-2 9-22 G3 13 WC1 down 0-2 4-12 G4 13 WC1 down 0-3 7-22 G6 13 WC1 down 2-3 8-28 G1 14 WC1 at home 6-19 G2 14 WC1 down 0-1 13-35 G3 14 WC1 down 0-2 9-21 G4 14 WC1 down 1-2 5-15 G5 14 WC1 tied 2-2 5-12 G4 15 WCSF down 1-2 5-20 G6 15 WCSF down 2-3 3-16 G3 15 WCF down 0-2 2-11 G5 15 WCF down 1-3 11-26 G3 16 WC1 down 0-2 4-13 G4 16 WC1 down 1-2 5-16 G4 17 WC1 up 2-1 8-25 G5 17 WC1 up 3-1 3-17 G2 17 WCSF up 1-0 2-11 G6 17 WCSF down 2-3 No one is capable of forgetting that much if you actually watched the career
11/26 is a dud now? I feel that for a guy who averages 44% FG, shooting above 40% is well within a standard deviation and is a typical performance
That is the nuance to these conversations isn't it? It is a team sport tying someones greatness to a title isn't especially logical even in a game like basketball where one guy can have so much impact. But I feel like the great players without titles really at least had games of note where they went out on their shield and just lost to better teams. Harden has so many pivotal games that you can look at and really pin the loss on him.
One of the Rockets biggest playoff wins during his time there was game 6 of the 2015 WCSF against the Clippers where the Rockets came back from down 20 in the 2nd half facing elimination. The comeback was led by Josh Smith and Corey Brewer of all people with Harden shooting 5-20 and riding the bench during most of the comeback. That game along with other of his elimination game performances aren’t going to have him remembered as a winner unless he really flips it his last few years like Dirk did in 2011.
Did you know that Dwight Howard and Josh Smith were AAU teammates?
I'd say the game 7 following that game where Harden took over and secured the upset was a bigger playoff win but go ahead lmao That team having their seeding and making the WCF is the work of Harden. Him having one bad game doesn't change that, especially when he stepped up and closed out the series.
Except he was good in Games 5 and 7 that were also elimination games. Game 6 Klay saved Curry's ass vs Thunder in 2016 so he could shine in G7, but somehow Harden isn't allowed to get carried by teammates at all.
>but they are also specifically remembered as non-winners Just because people are fucking stupid. Just because you didn't win a ring, it doesn't mean you're a "non-winner".
It’s almost like maybe a little more nuance is required than “no chips he’s a loser”
Rings culture fucked up sports talk. I'd be more specific but I don't want my inbox flooded with dumbass stans.
Stephen A Smith and Skip bayless destroyed an entire generation of sports fans. They are going down in history with Hitler
Some responsibility falls on the fans that continue to tune in, click, etc. The only reason that trash like that is still on is because people eat it up. The networks don’t care. They just want money.
Nah I hate this take. It's supposed to be the whole job of an analyst to teach people the game of basketball and what is and isn't important. They just gave up and decided to go for easy money and rage bait then actually provide value to the game itself. If a teacher in school decides that all they gonna do for the school year is play CoD and eat cheerios it's not gonna be the kids fault for "eating it up".
come on let's hear it
Barkley didn’t win a ring but I’ve never heard people consider him a non winner I don’t even hear people mention the suns meltdowns against the rockets two years in a row
I’ll remember him as one of the best hunters of arms.
They reached, he teached
Yeah he’ll get zero respect from me. A refball pioneer who mastered a traveling stepback with legs flinging forward. Basically unguardable but for the wrong reasons. Remember how guys would literally guard him from behind? Refball is a blight on the beautiful game and his legacy is a heaping trash can full of zero chips.
I’m with you on harden being a red ball pioneer but the warriors benefitted from the refs more than anyone. Bogut confirmed what we all saw with our eyes.
A lot of nephews will be seeing his stats on Basketball Reference asking why he isn’t ranked higher all time. Bill Simmons said one of the reasons he wrote his book was so that people didn’t retroactively rank Karl Malone higher and he wanted to make sure the context was there for how good he actually was relative to his gaudy stats. Maybe he’ll do an updated version for Harden lol
Bill also said current Westbrook was better than Harden before the trade this season. He’s a hot take artist now, it’s been a long time since he wrote that book
He has always been a massive Harden hater and definitely lets his biased inform his takes.
Which is ironic because he was the lead cheerleader for Harden when Westbrook had his MVP, then immediately turned on him the next season.
Bill has been a hot-take artist his whole career. But he will do a lot of legwork to retroactively justify his hot-takes.
Is it really a hot take if you write a compelling, well researched, and thought-out article to back it up? Bill is just a pro yapper now but back in the Grantland days he was legit a great sportwriter.
He was. But I loved him for writing 15k words on nonsense. Don't get it wrong... He had a lot of good takes too. But Lord, could he just waterboard you with words to talk you into a silly metaphor or hot take. Those old page2 and then grantland articles got me through some long days.
I get what you're saying and agree that he's always had his own kind of odd contrarian streak but to me a hot take is just some absurd half baked shit you throw out to get as much attention as possible in the moment. Bill has always had some absurd takes but hot takes and outlandish sports debates shows are synonymous in my eyes. Just a semantic thing ultimately but even when Bill was writing novellas on whatever goofy sports shower thought he had it still hit totally different than the hot take podcast yapping that everyone including Bill does now.
People won't rank Malone high because he is a d-bag, but his resume as a player is ridiculous. Most top 10 PPG finishes NBA history: t1: 14 Karl Malone and Lebron t3: 13 Kareem and Kobe Most top 5 PPG finishes t1: 13 Karl Malone and Lebron 3: 12 Kobe Most top 3 PPG finishes: 1: 11 MJ 2: 10 Lebron t3: 8 Karl Malone, Shaq, AI, Kobe and Kareem And this is PPG not total points were he really shines. Malone was also efficient, a great rebounder and a strong defender.
He and Stockton (before 2 finals appearances) were known as chockers. They lost multiple times with lower ranked teams in playofs
True, I found 4 times they lost to lower seeds under Sloan: 89 vs 51 win Jazz lost to 43 win warriors 90 vs 55 win Jazz lost to 54 win suns 95 vs 60 win Jazz lost to 47 win rockets who added Drexler midseason and won the chip 99 vs 37 win Jazz lost to 35 win Portland Malone still has a higher playoff PPG than players like Shaq, Bird and Kareem and has the 10th highest ppg among players with 100 playoff games (would be 6th without the Laker year). I don't really know where to rank Malone myself, but I think his career could be one of the biggest whatifs in NBA history which is wild because of how durable both he and Stockton were. Without MJ Karl Malone would 3peat as MVP and have 5 scoring titles including 4 in a row. He would also probably have 2 titles and be a clear top 5 player ever.
About that first number… wasn’t 14 also the age of his victim?
the thing I dislike about his Malone takes is him acting as if he was crunching tape on the Jazz in the late 80s. they were never on TV and they didn't even really get on SportsCenter that often because they did not have an exciting style of play. Stockton 16/4/14, Malone 28/12/2, Jazz win. Stockton 18/5/12, Malone 32/13/3, Jazz lose. after a decade of that people just took them for granted. his argument that KJ was better than Stockton because he was never scared of Stockton is just the absolute dumbest take ever
That’s basically what he did with Russell>Wilt.
Win-loss only he’s 697-375. So yeah one could saying he’s a winning player. Plus a few of the accolades under his belt will help his legacy. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/james-harden-career-win-loss-record
I will never forget him wearing that fat suit 🙃
I just see him as the dude who can straight up just drape himself over someone and get a foul called on them.
He may be one of those guys who ultimately disappears from many conversations because he just didn’t win enough.
*George Gervin enters the chat.*
I don’t know about winner, but I definitely think he got done dirty for how he is treated nowadays. Sure, he drew fouls alot but that aside, he was doing crazy shit we never seen, same with Westbrook and we trash both these legends. The fans nowadays ain’t got no respect and it’s a shame how we treat active legends on the tail end of their career.
The dude averaged 50 PPG **FOR A MONTH** July 2020. That was fucking nuts!
That put the money aside?!
I will always remember him for setting the tone for the entire NBA with the foul baiting and traveling step back 3 (and the strip clubs, and the fat suit, and all the other off the court drama). I don't know if he was the one to set the change in motion, or if he was even the first star to do it like I think he was, but that is the landmark in my memory of when I stopped watching the nba for a decade.
> that I was a teacher prime Harden was the pinnacle of “you reach, I teach”
Also a big philanthropist in sending women to colleges
"Put the money aside... their thongs"
Hero shit
The young guys seem to like him
That Wesley Johnson crossover was legendary
Things just never broke his way when he was on teams that had a chance to actually win. You don't get that many cracks at actually winning a chip, and in 2018 and 2021 when he was on teams that could actually do it they got fucked by injuries. But never missing the playoffs, averaging 28/6/7 on 59% TS as a starter in his prime across like 150 playoff games, averaging 36ppg in a season when the next closest scorer was at 28ppg (compared to now when 5+ guys are breaking 30 every season), giving up money multiple times to try and improve his basketball situation, carrying some bumass rosters way deeper than they should've gone, and then basically sacrificing his prime playing 3 playoff games on a torn hamstring including all 53 mins of an OT game 7 to try and win in Brooklyn... dude definitely deserves more praise than he gets. The series before his hamstring injury, he averaged 28/7/11 on 77% TS in the first round. He was playing the best brand of basketball he ever played that season - that West Coast road trip without KD was fucking awesome to watch. Since playing on the injury, he's barely been able to average 20ppg. There are significantly worse playoff performers than him that don't have every single thread made about them spammed with HUR DURR PLAYOFFS, and it's always a huge double standard with him when it comes to "big games." A game is only "big" if he doesn't do well in it it seems, but dude has plenty of big time clutch moments. Another underrated part about him is how much work he puts in with the young guys on every single team he's been on. People love to talk shit about him as a teammate for some reason, but he's helped so many young players with their development and would always put in extra practice time with them. They all talk about it, but nobody ever recognizes it.
That 2018 Rockets team was better than most champions, unfortunate to run into a super team then Chris Paul gets injured when they're up 3-2.
That team was 42-3 in the regular season when Harden, CP3, and Capela played together. Including post season it was like 50-5. Prior to the post season the team as a whole never lost two games in a row. Over a 30 game stretch at one point they went 29-1. Health kept the regular season team to a 70+ win record and obviously from beating the Warriors.
Yeah that Rockets team wins a ring most years. Shame what happened
Yeah they were the only team that was able to beat down the kd warriors where it wasn’t even close, game 2 of the wcf 127-105
I think a lot of his playoff criticism is an unfortunate side affect of how amazing he was during the regular season. Outside of a few elimination games, his playoff statistics measure well with many of the greats of the game. They just seem bad because his prime regular seasons are unfathomably amazing.
I always thought it was because of the rosters. Most of his rosters were meh and the stars he got were usually past their prime and declining in comparison to other greats. They also failed to ever get another really good ball-handler until CP3. Draymond straightforward up said their strategy was to make James tired from dribbling and doing so much.
It isn’t a side effect. It’s because the playoffs are just significantly harder because teams prep specifically to stop you instead of hopping on a plane immediately after their previous night’s game and flying over to your city and then doing it all over again 82 times in the regular season. Harden’s legacy will always be marked by what happened to him in the playoffs, just like Demar DeRozan’s. He was an elite player but he was stopped consistently in the playoffs.
I make fun of him a lot but Ill always remember Harden as a guy who was so good that he almost made Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson legitimate 2nd and 3rd options on title contending teams.
I think a lot of people don’t recognize how good that team was with really lack of 2nd and 3rd options. No one was getting past Golden State those years
Not even a big fan of Jim Harden, but I almost wish for his legacy that CP doesn’t hurt his hammy and/or they make like 5 out of those 27 straight missed threes
We did make multiple of them. Waved off for no reason.
Ill remember how fat he looked that one year
People only think of being a winner with titles. But Harden basically made the playoffs every season. Won so much in the regular season, made many conference finals. Like he is a winner in the EXACT way Chris Paul is a winner. In fact Hardens a bigger one.
His career record of 697-375 is pretty great
Harden's gonna be remembered for his: - Stepback threes - Face being 85% beard - Flailing legs while shooting a jump shot to get contact (and the rule change that followed) - Being a diva that forced his way off 3 teams - Dominant highs and unbelievably dogshit lows in playoffs (dude is still the only superstar player I have ever seen get benched in a 4th quarter of an elimination game for being terrible) - Getting robbed of MVP in 2017 because voters were blinded by the triple double average by Russ, even though Harden genuinely was better and took his team to 3rd seed - Almost beating the dominant 2018 Warriors if it wasn't for CP3's injury
Perfected the art of shooting into people’s arms for an easy foul.
Its weird how Wade did this same thing but he’s beloved & Harden is hated.
Stayed with Houston until the wheels fell off Didn’t want to be in Brooklyn with a teammate who wouldn’t take a jab to win games Left Philly because he took a pay cut to try to help the team on the promise he’d get the money back and was lied to and not given the money back
exactly, not as some poster said "Being a diva that forced his way off 3 teams", the context matters. He played his heart out in brooklyn through injury too, never looked the same
Don’t forget broke the record for most turnovers in a playoff game twice, both elimination games.
I forgot about that lol. Yikes.
He was also completely in the right to force his way off those teams tbh. Rockets refused to fess up the money to pay players to surround him, the nets had Kyrie being a mess, not playing half the year and harden was forced to play on a shredded hamstring that probably took years off his career, and the Sixers probably promised him a max then didn’t give it.
HoF head snap
beating that warriors team would have ended all talks of him being not able to win. shame cp3 went down and we aren’t able to erase that from his legacy or his even cp3s legacy
I don't hold lack of playoff success against Harden tbh. He had some very successful years, multiple CF runs, a Finals run (albeit a key bench player) ... It's more his volatility, huge ups and huge downs. But yeah, man they were so unlucky to with CP3 injury in 2018. Would have been an all time upset.
i think a lot of people forget what type of co stars he had during these runs in playoffs. he had a lot of weight on his shoulders to carry. and sometimes not the best coaches…
And bouncing the bball back into his face
Intentionally fouling out of an elimination game is worse than being benched. That's the one I'll remember.
Robbed in 2019 for MVP too. Bro averaged 41/8/7 for **three months**
Nah, 2019 was Giannis. It was close, but the voters got it right. Giannis was a 2 way monster and led his team to 60 wins and 1st seed. Winning should matter. Also, Giannis averaged 28/13/6 on 64% TS and finished 2nd in DPOY. Giannis should have won handily, but the voters rightfully took into account that the Rockets had so many injuries and Harden carried the fuck out of them.
36ppg when the next closest is 28 is absolutely insane. The Bucks were a really good team, the Rockets were missing CP3, Capela, and Gordon for a huge amount of the season and Harden carried hard. It shouldn't be on him that the others missed months at a time and he was having to win games with end of bench guys lol
If it were any other player but harden who had that 36ppg average they probably would have won MVP. Harden missed out on MVP in 2017 because Russ averaged a triple double which hadn't been done since Oscar Robertson so he won it but when Harden averaged 36 which hadn't been done since MJ he didn't deserve it
I’d take him over giannis that year but have no problem with giannis winning it, was close in my eyes. 2017 he lost because he averaged 2 less rebounds than russ. Had a better record and more efficient scoring season on similar volume but lost because we arbitrarily value hitting double digits in categories. I get why he won it because kd just left okc and people were rooting for russ and were also swept up in the hype and history and magic of the season, especially the last game where he had like a 50 point triple double and hit the game winner, but I think we can retrospectively see harden had a better season
Doesn't help when you have media members like Zach Lowe and Bill Simmons actively campaigning for people to never vote for Harden again, literally saying after 2018 that no matter what happens they weren't going to vote for him again lol
Defense
Giannis was also playing DPOY level defense whereas Harden did nothing at all on that end
Giannis was playing DPOY level *help defense* that wouldn't have been anywhere near as good if Brook played closer to 50 or 60 games like Harden's teammates than he did 80. Harden's team wasn't whole. He had to play insane minutes and an insane amount of games to keep them afloat, and he did a really damn good job of it given the circumstances. To only win 7 less games with CP3 only playing like 55 games, and Capela and Gordon only playing like 65 is unreal. Remember that Harden, CP3, and Capela had a like 93% winrate when they played together in 2018, but CP3 and Capela just weren't healthy enough in 2019. That's not Harden's fault.
til the nba regular season only lasts 3 months
Thank you for saying he was robbed during that westbrook season. IMO (ive always been a westbrick hater tbf) Westbrook had a great seasons but definitely stat padded and got help with his triple doubles by Steven Adams and team let him get rebounds over them. They also were like the 6th * seed that year
One of the most skilled players of all time
And the Goat foul committed against him by MCW
Don’t forget hooking his arm around the defender, then flopping like he just got shot by a sniper.
nba circlejerk-ass thread
Teaching mfs how to take four steps on a stepback 3 and somehow not get called for travelling. Good shit 👍🏻
That 2018 Rockets team is one of the biggest what ifs of the modern NBA, and will forever haunt the Rockets fanbase
He absolutely will be remember fondly. He'll be remember as the team that was beating the KD warriors until CP3 went down injured. Of everything in his legacy. His team was up there with the best team of all time, ring or not. He'll be remembered as fondly if not greater than Nash and Barkley are. One of the greatest scores of our time. If he plays a couple more years he's ending in the top 10 all time scorers and close to top 10 in assists. If he ends up top 10 in both, there is only 1 other person in that company. LBJ. The man is one of the best offensive engines in history.
Harden has a rough reputation because of his foul baiting play, shot chucking in all-star games, weird mvp speech and reputation for strip clubs and porn stars. But the dude is absolutely an all time legit player who worked really really hard at his game and did his best to drag his teams further than they had any right to go. And at his peak he was right up there with LeBron, Steph and KD as a guy you could argue was the best player in the league for a period of 3-4 years.
He did a great job mentoring Tyrese Maxey. I think him for that from his time in Philly. Wish it ended better.
James Harden might've been at the wrong place at the wrong time to win chips, but goddamn did his playoffs chokes not help his chances at all. That's what great winning players do, put the team on their back. Idk about being remembered as a winner.
most of his "chokes" were when series weren't winnable anyway. he's generally really great at the games *before elimination* to avoid being in like 3-0 or 3-1 situations, but once a series is hopeless it would get bad. the other part of the coin here is that a lot of his elimination game stats come from series where his team was the one eliminating the other team in 4 or 5, and that would often be against teams like the Jazz or TWolves who were obsessed with doubling/tripling him even if it meant them getting blown out. Like in 2018 against the Timberwolves, Harden had 44 in game 1 in a 104 to 101 win. Then, the TWolves decided to triple team the fuck out of Harden in game 2 and he shot like shit but the TWolves lost by 20. Exact same thing in game 5 - they sold out way too hard to try and stop Harden all the way to a 20 pt loss and series over. Exact same story vs the Jazz that year. When they tried to play Harden more straight up, Harden scored super efficiently and the games were a bit closer. But when they tried to execute some gimmick defense to stop Harden, Harden shot like shit but they blew them out with neither series being close to going past 5 lol
“I’d like to be remembered as pretty much the opposite of my choices and behaviour. Can we do that?”
Strippers gonna say Harden is the GOAT!
He will be remembered as one of the greatest regular season performers during his peak with the Rockets. In the playoffs he wasn’t as bad as they make him to be but he does have multiple choke performances in key games. His greatest achievement will be his MVP and taking the 18 Warriors to 7. I have him around Iverson.
A teacher of being a foul merchant
Going to be hard to be remembered as a winner if you don't win a ring. Fair or not, that's just how it is.
I think he’ll get that Barkley albatross but it may help him that he’s probably going to the Hall with a fellow albatross wearer in Westbrook (they just seem like they’ll retire around the same time). I don’t think he’ll go down as a winner similar to how we don’t think of Barkley as one. The years will be kind of him as context fades and stats remain. His step back three highlights will be really impressive. No one will watch him on defense ever again after he retires and no one will endure one of his rockets games in totality (that was not entertaining basketball). He may be one where some kids look at his stats and are confused why he wasn’t a “goat.” I think Westbrook will go down much the same.
I’ll remember him for: 1) large responsibility for the epidemic of flopping getting worse. 2) Always losing in the playoffs
I think he's going to be remembered for them having to make a rule to combat his bullshit foul baiting.
Strip clubs and step backs
Jajajajajajajaj. You’re the next Carmelo. All empty numbers and you disappeared in the playoffs
Won’t be remembered as a winner because his prime coincided with the greatest team in the history of the sport and his one shot outside of that he got hurt and his teammate’s foot was too big
What was he supposed to say? "My love for women, especially strippers. I really knew how to make it rain on them hoes"
He is that. Before James Harden joined the Houston Rockets, I've always wondered how Manu Ginobili's career would have panned out if he was the star of the show. I think I have more of a solid idea now. Not taking away from Harden when saying that, but just saying how he's taken that blueprint and ran with it. And it does pay hall-of-fame worthy dividends.
Harden put up some crazy stats in his career, but one I'll always remember was that he had drawn more fouls on 3 point shot than any **TEAM** in the league since 2009. (except Rockets) By 2021: 1st - Harden 521 2nd - Lakers 439 [source](https://x.com/ESPNNBA/status/1432878602043920390)
My guy had humongous minutes for a few years there. Impressive
He can definitely be one of those things
That 18 month span where he was an unstoppable offensive machine with the Rockets is something I’ll always remember him by
All his most memorable playoff moments are mostly duds so I very much doubt the majority will ever look at him that way lol.
Lol
KD Warriors and his hamstring injury have distorted our perception but he’ll be remembers for his Rockets run where they almost beat the greatest team assembled in this century.
Best offensive player from the 2010’s, he had some of the worst lowlight compilation but he also he never had the chance to have an healthy team during his prime and Scott Foster for that game 7 in 2018.
I'll remember him for innovating the foul bait game, and bitching and moaning for a trade every couple years. Teacher and winner? Nah
He'll be remembered for not showing up in the biggest playoff games year after year!
An amazing dude and an amazing player.
Delusional asf
One of the ultimate "great career wrong time" players The accolades he would've won had the warriors not assembled one of the great dynasties of all time right as he was peaking. Years from now there'll still be people going through bballref pages amazed at what he was doing in his prime, just an unbelievable offensive engine
Its not even wrong time. He was perfect for the era he played in. He just got fucked over by bus rider KD just like Lebron.
A *teacher?* What the fuck has he taught? How to flop while taking off balance 3's? What a prick. STFU James.
I think he will widely be forgotten
great regular season player and one of the greatest foul merchants to every do it no shade. he could draw a foul on anybody
I would say he one of the most influential players. So he could say he was a teacher in a way. Harden changed the way people play basketball.
Def won't remember him as a winner, that's for sure
Nets really fucked this mans career Bringing him back from injury and playing him 40 minutes in the regular season
Get this man to Miami. They just need a steady 20 points a game.
Does anyone talk about how much money someone made as part of their legacy?
Salute sir 🫡
To be a winner first you gotta win
The beard
I really thought he was going to get a chip when he was in OKC with KD and WB