Because this stat is a little different in terms of what people watching games consider foul-baiting.
If you get easy and-ones, this will be lower. Or if your team is not in the bonus. Or if you are a poor FT shooter relative to your normal shot selection. (Like Doncic.)
Lillard, for example, gets fouled on 3s more often which gives him more FTs and is a better FT shooter, even though he draws far fewer fouls than Brunson.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/misc?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=A&sort=PFD
Brunson is 6th in personal fouls drawn last year in the regular season. The only reason Brunson is low on the chart above is because he only shot 84.7 from FT during the regular season and lack of being in the bonus.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/misc?SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=A&sort=PFD
Brunson was also 2nd in fouls drawn the playoffs with 8.4. (Much higher than his regular season of 6.2, and higher than even the regular season leader of Giannis at 8.3!)
Lillard is only 19th in fouls drawn per game in the regular season. And Butler is only 13th. However, Lillard in the regular season, as an example, has the benefit of playing with Giannis who is drawing tons of semi-intentional fouls which means the Bucks are perpetually in the bonus, combined with being a 92% FT shooter.
I think both stats are worth considering.
(Also missing from this regular season list was Devin Booker's ascension to 35.4% points from FTs in the playoffs, which even beat Embiid's 33.8%.)
I looked at this list and went
Yep, this is all the players I hate most unless it’s like Gobert a defensive center who isn’t really a foul grifter he just only scores on free throws and dunks
I feel like the reason Giannis is low on this list is bc he doesn’t make FTs at as high of a percentage. Would be interested in seeing FTA per FGA or something similar.
Tbh, we're in an era where that's 90% of the fouls anyway. Guys like Butler and Embiid throwing themselves at people full speed and launching themselves if anything even nearly touches them.
Yeah he averaged 10 ppg and played 35 games lol, Embiid averaged 35 ppg
While it’s actually shocking that he’s averaging 10ppg in 23 mpg that’s just getting fouled once or twice every game.
Frankly I’m surprised he even stayed on the active roster, the man was GARBAGE to start this season but seems to have maybe figured out a niche role. But if he’s playing in non garbage time next season, it’s over for Memphis.
Still think we give him the start of the season, I am a bit scared it could’ve been just empty stats on a bad team at the end.
Out of the ‘trash wings’ group of Ziaire, Roddy and Jake (as we call them on r/Memphisgrizzlies) we came into the season with, I think he has the highest chance of a somewhat bright future
I feel like at that point they’ll all get much more less free throws, there’s only so much you can call right??!
It’ll be funny to watch them all three flop around and the refs would roll the dice on which ones to call
It really is an art. In Jimmy’s defense though, he may get a lot of calls and drive with the intention of getting fouled and nothing else, but if the call doesn’t go his way he doesn’t throw a tantrum at the ref, which I think is what most folks don’t like to see
Winning cures everything. When they beat the super hyped wolves in the WCF 4-1 with him playing incredible and hitting game winners it’s a lot harder to criticize
I think this is largely true, but I’d argue SGA is the same, and he caught a ton of the hate this year, and the only difference between the two this year I’d say was exposure and spotlight (SGA MVP conversation + deeper playoff run vs Jimmy and the Heat having largely a dud year with injuries etc).
Jimmy definitely gets the least consistent flak for it though for sure, how much is that his attitude/the way he gets to the line, how much is it him kind of going under the radar in the RS?
Either way, I actually like watching both guys play, and maybe it is because despite them having some flopping and flailing in their game it just looks and feels different than some of the other guys (not that I don’t like watching most of the other guys on this list) for some reason.
truly an art, the thing i like about Jimmy's baiting vs someone like Harden's is that Jimmy is super crafty when he get's inside. Harden just extends his arms out, gets some soft touch, and called for the foul. and he'll drive a lot with the intention of getting fouled.
I’m still not over that game vs the bulls when Jimmy was “fouled” by Marcus with like one second left in the game and the fucking ref didn’t call the foul until the shot rimmed out.
Fucking HATE that bullshit. Refs only calling the foul because the shot didn’t go in or not calling it because the shot went in
It feels awful as a fan but that’s the route the NBA has taken. Pretty sure it’s because they think if they don’t wait to see if it affects the play they’ll blow the whistle too much an annoy fans. Dunno what the solution is but the current system ain’t it
I tend to agree but the problem with that is then the refs will be blowing whistles all the time. It reminds me of soccer maybe 5-8 years ago where they were ripping fouls on anything that was actually a foul, and as a fan it felt like shit to watch. Recently though soccer has somehow fixed this issue apparently and I hope the NBA does the same.
I think the real fix is to get all the refs to be consistent on what constitutes a “real” foul for lack of a better term and what is “real” marginal or accidental contact. If the refs were all on the same page about what constitutes a foul, that’s a huge step in the right direction because as it currently sits it feels worse when certain refs call something a foul that other refs do not.
There's a term for when referees find find ways to cut the score down by tiny but measurable amounts
Score trimming? Point shrinking? Ah it'll come to me
This is what made MJ the GOAT. Midrange turn around fadeaway from his spot. Anytime he missed, there would be a late whistle. Was infuriating to watch.
Why does that bother you? It’s the approach soccer takes. If the foul doesn’t affect the result, play on. If it results in a turnover, a missed shot, etc., call it. It ultimately reduces the number of fouls that *could* be called.
as a celtics fan and someone who does not like the heat. Jimmy's foul baiting as a skill is pretty next level. It isn't like Embiid flopping at all imo
This is the best/most fair way to describe it. He also doesn't whine like certain other players when he doesn't get the call. He definitely will argue with a ref, but he doesn't give the incredulous look if he doesn't get the call after baiting someone. But he mostly does his work by getting the defender into a bad spot through skill. Not like certain other players that just flop, rip through, flail into people.
I'm biased about a few of my favorite players and free throw contested are boring, but there's a difference between people that draw FTs through skill, will, and flopping.
Skill being like Jimmy and Demar types with footwork and fakes while leveraging mid-post positioning.
Will being like Lebron, Giannis, or Zion types that attack the rim.
And flopping being like...well we all know who they are, who don't appear to be sincerely attempting actual shots on the goal to score, just initiating contact and then adding flinging the ball towards the rim at the last second.
Skill and will provide "earned" FT's in my mind.
Jimmy's pump fakes and foul baits are what prepped this team for the discipline it took to guard Luka the way they did. I can't be convinced otherwise.
Insane to imply Jimmy getting fouls is a skill while Embiid getting fouls is flopping lmao
Literally just watch any video that analyzes why embiid gets so many free throws. It's because he knows how to put defenders in to compromised positions and get a foul off it, for example by taking a shot out of rhythm that the defender wouldn't expect him to take. It's the same for Jimmy too I'm sure.
We did. I think we hit 38? That’s off memory though.
We had G League guys in the starting rotation filling in for injured G League guys who were filling in for injured backups who were filling in for injured starters.
In 2021 the injury-ridden hawks had some absolutely disgusting lineups. Our much-hyped christmas day matchup with the knicks featured Skylar Mays and Gorgui Dieng playing 20+ minutes each, and it's not even close to the devastation of the Grizzlies last year. You guys got about as fucked as any team I've seen, and you didn't even get a top 6 draft pick for it.
Giannis would be third on this list if he had the same FT% as Harden or Embiid.
And Embiid would be 8th on this list if he had the same FT% as Giannis.
Giannis would also be averaging like 35 PPG if that were the case. Lowkey he'd be considered the best player in the league in that case. Averaging 35/11/6 on 60% from the field and All-defense team level defense.
> Lowkey he'd be considered the best player in the league in that case
I mean it's not he hasn't been considered 1b to Jokic' 1a in the past few seasons or anything. I feel like even Giannis-sceptics will throw out the 'aruguable best player in the world' when discussing him.
giannis is def that caliber of player but i think its fair to say hes notched down bc hes sneakily injured in the last few playoffs, dude had an injury in 4 of the last 5 postseasons
Yep.
2 first round exits in a row that aren’t his fault but when you’re contending for the best in the world title it definitely isn’t doing you and favors
You can say "not his fault" but when a player's consistently not available for his team in its biggest games, it's gotta be a point against him. Same deal with like Embiid or Kawhi, great players obviously but it's clear that they're not reliable 1As at this point.
The Miami injury was kinda BS. Love pretty much slid under him in the air. This year he just kind of broke down having to carry the roster down the stretch.
He was also the far and away front runner for MVP at the time :( Really sucks that he had a significant injury. This year felt very special for him. He also finished the year damn close to 50/40/90 with 53/39/88. He's the only player I can remember in a long time that I feel personally sad that he hasn't had playoff success. He's a truly unique talent, works his ass off, but his body just can't handle the physical toll of an 82 game season. Still hoping for one magic season that he stays healthy and dominates through the playoffs. But obviously seems less likely as the years go by.
Giannis with solid free throw shooting is the best player in the league no questions asked. because like msf97 said that would mean he is probably a respectable midrange shooter as well. that's like his only weakness as a player.
If he shot like that he’d turn into a more frustrating version of Embiid, actually willing and able to muscle in and try to score but also benefiting and seeking the fouls to hit 10%+ higher than he does now from the FT line
2022-2023 was a wild year for scoring. Joel was at about 30% again but he also lead the league in FGM and FTM. Tatum finished 2nd in FGM but first in total points. He made one fewer FG than Joel, but 174 more 3PM and finished with 42 more total points.
Gobert being up there is more because he can't score shit if he's a few steps away from the basket, and opponents would rather foul him than anyone else on the team.
That was always such a weird angle I saw Philly fans take. Like anyone with eyes and a brain can see the difference in the two of their playstyles and why people prefer to watch one over the other.
Esp after Brunson dropped 60+ on SIX free throws not even a month or two before our series
Trash ass narrative to absolve their flopping mattress of a big man
Imagine Giannis actually being able to make his free throws. Also its always insane to see 35+ ppg Joel Embid get almost 30% of his points from free throws.
In Giannis’s case, he’d probably also get to the line less if he was better at them though. There are times when the other team barely even tries to defend him once he gets half a step and they just hack him because they expect him to miss at least one.
Obviously it wouldn’t be exact, but Giannis averaged 30 PPG in his last 5 years. If he made 80% of free throws we’re then looking at 31.2 PPG, over a 5 year period. That, plus the true shooting bump would potentially make him the best scorer in the game .
Scoring bump would likely be even more because defenders would be less hesitant to play aggressive D which means he scores more from the field.
He also would probably get a little bump by getting the ball more at the end of games (such as foul and chase for example).
Eh. Luka shot 79% from the line this year. He’ll have random games where he goes 5/10 but he isn’t a bad shooter by any means. He’s actually improved a good deal from his 71% rookie year
49/38/79 is actually a pretty tidy shooting split for Luka
Don’t know why you are being downvoted for a reasonable question
He’s a wing who was drafted in 2022 where we acquired him on draft night in a trade that included Kessler, so far he’s had a pretty underwhelming career (that’s putting it kindly, he was BAD) and a few injuries affects him, but last 2 months or so of the season during the injury crisis he stepped
His usage % probably took a fair jump after Randle got hurt. That's relevant because I think there's a correlation between the offense running almost entirely through one guy and foul baiting. Don't know what the main reason would be but I know there's probably multiple factors
Doesn't this favor poor ft shooters like Luka or Giannis, punish good ft shooters like Embiid and Shai? Seems like a weird metric to use because people don't care about how many you make, they complain about how many you shoot and how you get them.
It favors perimeter players who take a lot of jumpshots. Players draw more fouls on 3s than they used to but vast majority are still from 2s and you draw more at the rim than taking long 2s.
So if players like Embiid, Jimmy, Derozan Zion and SGA are going yo be high up because they are interior scorers who don't take a lot of 3s. It isn't really the gotcha stat that people are acting like.
But yeah Giannis is lower because he is making his ftas. If he shot 90% from the line, he'd have 29.1% of points from fts. If Luka was a 90% free throw shooter, he'd only go up to like 22%.
1% above league average, which factors bigs and everyone who can't shoot. I don't know what the average for guards would be, but I'm guessing it's a fair bit higher. This year was his best year, before that he was a 73.9% shooter. And despite it being his career high, he was still below average.
Luka is great at many things, shooting freethrows is not one of them
Like someone else said, he'd still only be at 24% if he shot 100% from the FT, which is an absurd idea. He'd still be outside of the top 8 if he shot 100% and outside of the top 10 if he shot 90% So this line of reasoning goes nowhere.
INTERPOL's most wanted.
Jalen Brunson vindication thread
Refs: no blood no foul
Because this stat is a little different in terms of what people watching games consider foul-baiting. If you get easy and-ones, this will be lower. Or if your team is not in the bonus. Or if you are a poor FT shooter relative to your normal shot selection. (Like Doncic.) Lillard, for example, gets fouled on 3s more often which gives him more FTs and is a better FT shooter, even though he draws far fewer fouls than Brunson. https://www.nba.com/stats/players/misc?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=A&sort=PFD Brunson is 6th in personal fouls drawn last year in the regular season. The only reason Brunson is low on the chart above is because he only shot 84.7 from FT during the regular season and lack of being in the bonus. https://www.nba.com/stats/players/misc?SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=A&sort=PFD Brunson was also 2nd in fouls drawn the playoffs with 8.4. (Much higher than his regular season of 6.2, and higher than even the regular season leader of Giannis at 8.3!) Lillard is only 19th in fouls drawn per game in the regular season. And Butler is only 13th. However, Lillard in the regular season, as an example, has the benefit of playing with Giannis who is drawing tons of semi-intentional fouls which means the Bucks are perpetually in the bonus, combined with being a 92% FT shooter. I think both stats are worth considering. (Also missing from this regular season list was Devin Booker's ascension to 35.4% points from FTs in the playoffs, which even beat Embiid's 33.8%.)
Wow, turns out players with the highest usage % in the nba also generate the most fouls…
I looked at this list and went Yep, this is all the players I hate most unless it’s like Gobert a defensive center who isn’t really a foul grifter he just only scores on free throws and dunks
They’re mostly intentional fouls to prevent an easy dunk
Yea, def not a grifter
I mean same with Giannis right? Like Giannis is never TRYING to shoot free throws because he sucks at them lol.
I feel like the reason Giannis is low on this list is bc he doesn’t make FTs at as high of a percentage. Would be interested in seeing FTA per FGA or something similar.
Giannis led the league in fouls drawn per game I believe.
Hmmm lotta times Giannis at the stripe bc his elbow got fouled by the defenders face
Tbh, we're in an era where that's 90% of the fouls anyway. Guys like Butler and Embiid throwing themselves at people full speed and launching themselves if anything even nearly touches them.
yeah but thats to create room for himself. His preference would be that it doesn't get called so the play can continue
Jake LaRavia is a FRAUD
unethical hooper
When he’s giving his hall of fame speech, I’ll remember the truth about his career…
lol my first thought when I saw this…. I was like, wait, the bench dude on the Grizzlies?
>the bench dude on the grizzlies That could really be anyone
Sure but in this case it’s Jake LaRavia.
Jesus Christ, it's Jake LaRavia
J for “Jake LaRavia” A for “Another free throw for Jake LaRavia” K for “Kristaps, stop fouling Jake LaRavia”…
If only. I'd be somebody then.
Yeah he averaged 10 ppg and played 35 games lol, Embiid averaged 35 ppg While it’s actually shocking that he’s averaging 10ppg in 23 mpg that’s just getting fouled once or twice every game.
Jake: > I was just excited to be involved in the conversation
Figures Jake the Fake would be on this list
Jake the snake slithers his way to unethical buckets
Hey you dont slander arizona football legend jake the snake plummer like that
Getting those veteran calls??? Wtf, someone investigate!!!!
*LaFraud
Free throw merchant
Frankly I’m surprised he even stayed on the active roster, the man was GARBAGE to start this season but seems to have maybe figured out a niche role. But if he’s playing in non garbage time next season, it’s over for Memphis.
Still think we give him the start of the season, I am a bit scared it could’ve been just empty stats on a bad team at the end. Out of the ‘trash wings’ group of Ziaire, Roddy and Jake (as we call them on r/Memphisgrizzlies) we came into the season with, I think he has the highest chance of a somewhat bright future
Which is crazy. Everyone, including myself, thought he was by far the worst of the 3. I was a Roddy fan but I was proven wrong
Roddy is that bad? I thought he looked like he could be a decent role player in the few Grizzlies games I watched his rookie year
He regressed sadly. Hopefully he gets it together with the Suns
I won't stand for the slawdog slander
and to think the top 2 players on that list were on the same team at one point
Imagine if Jimmy stayed and they traded Maxey for Harden. Each 76er game would last for 5 hours 💀
NBA would fit in so many ads
so much beer/truck/army/nuggets!
I feel like at that point they’ll all get much more less free throws, there’s only so much you can call right??! It’ll be funny to watch them all three flop around and the refs would roll the dice on which ones to call
Much more less indeed. Definitely not fewer though.
Jimmy is the best foul grifter in the league
And gets the least flack for it from r/nba, truly generational
It really is an art. In Jimmy’s defense though, he may get a lot of calls and drive with the intention of getting fouled and nothing else, but if the call doesn’t go his way he doesn’t throw a tantrum at the ref, which I think is what most folks don’t like to see
This was shown by Luka. Everyone was on the luka train until they started losing and Luka was whining on every play on the biggest stage
Winning cures everything. When they beat the super hyped wolves in the WCF 4-1 with him playing incredible and hitting game winners it’s a lot harder to criticize
No, it wasn't. His ass was annoying as fuck the whole series lol.
are you from Minnesota?
I think this is largely true, but I’d argue SGA is the same, and he caught a ton of the hate this year, and the only difference between the two this year I’d say was exposure and spotlight (SGA MVP conversation + deeper playoff run vs Jimmy and the Heat having largely a dud year with injuries etc). Jimmy definitely gets the least consistent flak for it though for sure, how much is that his attitude/the way he gets to the line, how much is it him kind of going under the radar in the RS? Either way, I actually like watching both guys play, and maybe it is because despite them having some flopping and flailing in their game it just looks and feels different than some of the other guys (not that I don’t like watching most of the other guys on this list) for some reason.
truly an art, the thing i like about Jimmy's baiting vs someone like Harden's is that Jimmy is super crafty when he get's inside. Harden just extends his arms out, gets some soft touch, and called for the foul. and he'll drive a lot with the intention of getting fouled.
I’m still not over that game vs the bulls when Jimmy was “fouled” by Marcus with like one second left in the game and the fucking ref didn’t call the foul until the shot rimmed out. Fucking HATE that bullshit. Refs only calling the foul because the shot didn’t go in or not calling it because the shot went in
It feels awful as a fan but that’s the route the NBA has taken. Pretty sure it’s because they think if they don’t wait to see if it affects the play they’ll blow the whistle too much an annoy fans. Dunno what the solution is but the current system ain’t it
Easy solution if it’s a foul it’s a foul. There are and ones for a reason
I tend to agree but the problem with that is then the refs will be blowing whistles all the time. It reminds me of soccer maybe 5-8 years ago where they were ripping fouls on anything that was actually a foul, and as a fan it felt like shit to watch. Recently though soccer has somehow fixed this issue apparently and I hope the NBA does the same. I think the real fix is to get all the refs to be consistent on what constitutes a “real” foul for lack of a better term and what is “real” marginal or accidental contact. If the refs were all on the same page about what constitutes a foul, that’s a huge step in the right direction because as it currently sits it feels worse when certain refs call something a foul that other refs do not.
I think both go hand in hand. Call a foul when it’s committed but get everyone on the same page as to what a foul is.
Exactly. That’s seems to be what Soccer has done and it’s a much better viewing experience and I’d assume is a much better playing experience.
There's a term for when referees find find ways to cut the score down by tiny but measurable amounts Score trimming? Point shrinking? Ah it'll come to me
This is what made MJ the GOAT. Midrange turn around fadeaway from his spot. Anytime he missed, there would be a late whistle. Was infuriating to watch.
Why does that bother you? It’s the approach soccer takes. If the foul doesn’t affect the result, play on. If it results in a turnover, a missed shot, etc., call it. It ultimately reduces the number of fouls that *could* be called.
My 'crafty baiting' vs your 'driving with the intention of getting fouled'
the mental gymnastics are hilarious
It almost reads like satire but I think they’re serious
cognitive dissonance stays undefeated
Jesus Christ lol this is absurd. Just say you’ll hate harden no matter what. This attempt at mental gymnastics is just pathetic
Jimmy has perfected the up fake
His boy Embiid catching all the strays for him
they’re too busy typing 150 comments per Austin Reaves free throw
31 percent is actually crazier than it sounds. Dude scores a FT for atleast every FG lol
He’s better than prime Harden statistically when it comes to the grifting lol
as a celtics fan and someone who does not like the heat. Jimmy's foul baiting as a skill is pretty next level. It isn't like Embiid flopping at all imo
He does flop but he is great at getting a defender in a bad spot as well.
This is the best/most fair way to describe it. He also doesn't whine like certain other players when he doesn't get the call. He definitely will argue with a ref, but he doesn't give the incredulous look if he doesn't get the call after baiting someone. But he mostly does his work by getting the defender into a bad spot through skill. Not like certain other players that just flop, rip through, flail into people. I'm biased about a few of my favorite players and free throw contested are boring, but there's a difference between people that draw FTs through skill, will, and flopping. Skill being like Jimmy and Demar types with footwork and fakes while leveraging mid-post positioning. Will being like Lebron, Giannis, or Zion types that attack the rim. And flopping being like...well we all know who they are, who don't appear to be sincerely attempting actual shots on the goal to score, just initiating contact and then adding flinging the ball towards the rim at the last second. Skill and will provide "earned" FT's in my mind.
plus you'll see the defender when they foul Jimmy, they are like "oh maaaan!" not like "where's the foul?"
Jimmy's pump fakes and foul baits are what prepped this team for the discipline it took to guard Luka the way they did. I can't be convinced otherwise.
Insane to imply Jimmy getting fouls is a skill while Embiid getting fouls is flopping lmao Literally just watch any video that analyzes why embiid gets so many free throws. It's because he knows how to put defenders in to compromised positions and get a foul off it, for example by taking a shot out of rhythm that the defender wouldn't expect him to take. It's the same for Jimmy too I'm sure.
Gotta give him props for not yelling at the refs when they don’t call it though but yeah lol also idk jimmys baiting seems more crafty than cheesy
Apparently I really didn’t watch the Grizzlies this year because I had to look up who LaRavia was
Our roster was FULL of guys that no one has heard of this year. I’m pretty sure we broke the record for number of players used.
We did. I think we hit 38? That’s off memory though. We had G League guys in the starting rotation filling in for injured G League guys who were filling in for injured backups who were filling in for injured starters.
In 2021 the injury-ridden hawks had some absolutely disgusting lineups. Our much-hyped christmas day matchup with the knicks featured Skylar Mays and Gorgui Dieng playing 20+ minutes each, and it's not even close to the devastation of the Grizzlies last year. You guys got about as fucked as any team I've seen, and you didn't even get a top 6 draft pick for it.
At one point u guys probably let some random street ballers on the NBA court in garbage time, so they can later flex that they made it to the very top
I'm not sure who some of our starters were this year
I know the goon squad in 15/16 probably comes close
That game where they beat the healthy Bucks despite playing like 10 G-leaguers (hyperbole) real minutes was porn for rival Eastern teams.
Love how the general public just dismissed that as ‘lol doc rivers’
Dude fucked up the 6ers in the spring
His last 3 games of the season were an efficient 30 ppg against the Lakers, Cavs, and Nuggets. Pretty hilarious.
no lie I think I watched that game and thought he was Luke Kennard the whole time
Dawg I was AT that game and I thought it was Kennard
Honestly though it was a typo and he meant Luka
Jake LaRavia u fking foul merchant. we gotchu u sucker
I don't know why I read that with Dana White's voice
Giannis would be third on this list if he had the same FT% as Harden or Embiid. And Embiid would be 8th on this list if he had the same FT% as Giannis.
Giannis would also be averaging like 35 PPG if that were the case. Lowkey he'd be considered the best player in the league in that case. Averaging 35/11/6 on 60% from the field and All-defense team level defense.
Well he’d also have a shot if he was a good FT shooter i’m assuming which is the only thing he’s missing
> Lowkey he'd be considered the best player in the league in that case I mean it's not he hasn't been considered 1b to Jokic' 1a in the past few seasons or anything. I feel like even Giannis-sceptics will throw out the 'aruguable best player in the world' when discussing him.
giannis is def that caliber of player but i think its fair to say hes notched down bc hes sneakily injured in the last few playoffs, dude had an injury in 4 of the last 5 postseasons
Yep. 2 first round exits in a row that aren’t his fault but when you’re contending for the best in the world title it definitely isn’t doing you and favors
You can say "not his fault" but when a player's consistently not available for his team in its biggest games, it's gotta be a point against him. Same deal with like Embiid or Kawhi, great players obviously but it's clear that they're not reliable 1As at this point.
The Miami injury was kinda BS. Love pretty much slid under him in the air. This year he just kind of broke down having to carry the roster down the stretch.
I do still think Giannis and Jokic are the 1A and 1B in the league, although I don’t mind seeing Giannis put anywhere else in a top 4
It's not low-key, Giannis would be like a GOAT-level guy if he shot almost 90% from the line. The statistical difference on offense would be colossal.
I mean Embiid did average 35/11/6 before his injury with great defense. FG is 53% only but TS is right up there.
People get so caught up talking about free throws or whatever that they forget Embiid's a walking top 5 defense for years now.
He was also the far and away front runner for MVP at the time :( Really sucks that he had a significant injury. This year felt very special for him. He also finished the year damn close to 50/40/90 with 53/39/88. He's the only player I can remember in a long time that I feel personally sad that he hasn't had playoff success. He's a truly unique talent, works his ass off, but his body just can't handle the physical toll of an 82 game season. Still hoping for one magic season that he stays healthy and dominates through the playoffs. But obviously seems less likely as the years go by.
He already is the best player in the league 🤷♂️
Giannis with solid free throw shooting is the best player in the league no questions asked. because like msf97 said that would mean he is probably a respectable midrange shooter as well. that's like his only weakness as a player.
Giannis with a good shot would be the greatest ever. Not that his shot is bad for lack of trying, he’s no Shaq.
If he shot like that he’d turn into a more frustrating version of Embiid, actually willing and able to muscle in and try to score but also benefiting and seeking the fouls to hit 10%+ higher than he does now from the FT line
Isn’t he already considered either the best in the world or maybe a very close second to jokic?
He’d probably get fouled less if he could hit them
Idk, I still consider him the best player in the league.
If Embiid missed as many free throws as Giannis, he would instantly become an ethical hooper.
Giannis gets legit hammered though.
He also legit hammers half the defence on his way to the basket.
2022-2023 was a wild year for scoring. Joel was at about 30% again but he also lead the league in FGM and FTM. Tatum finished 2nd in FGM but first in total points. He made one fewer FG than Joel, but 174 more 3PM and finished with 42 more total points.
3>2
Least ethical hooper list
Gobert being up there is more because he can't score shit if he's a few steps away from the basket, and opponents would rather foul him than anyone else on the team.
I was told Jalen Brunson was a FT merchant on the same level as Embiid. Typical Philadelphia education can’t number
That was always such a weird angle I saw Philly fans take. Like anyone with eyes and a brain can see the difference in the two of their playstyles and why people prefer to watch one over the other.
Esp after Brunson dropped 60+ on SIX free throws not even a month or two before our series Trash ass narrative to absolve their flopping mattress of a big man
Moses malone averaged 30.5% over his 20 year career.
Imagine Giannis actually being able to make his free throws. Also its always insane to see 35+ ppg Joel Embid get almost 30% of his points from free throws.
In Giannis’s case, he’d probably also get to the line less if he was better at them though. There are times when the other team barely even tries to defend him once he gets half a step and they just hack him because they expect him to miss at least one.
Obviously it wouldn’t be exact, but Giannis averaged 30 PPG in his last 5 years. If he made 80% of free throws we’re then looking at 31.2 PPG, over a 5 year period. That, plus the true shooting bump would potentially make him the best scorer in the game .
Scoring bump would likely be even more because defenders would be less hesitant to play aggressive D which means he scores more from the field. He also would probably get a little bump by getting the ball more at the end of games (such as foul and chase for example).
Same goes for Luka. To score 30+ ppg with bad FTM is insane.
Luka actually shot a career high 78% from the line this year. And he was good the first 3 rounds of the playoffs, but awful in the finals.
Eh. Luka shot 79% from the line this year. He’ll have random games where he goes 5/10 but he isn’t a bad shooter by any means. He’s actually improved a good deal from his 71% rookie year 49/38/79 is actually a pretty tidy shooting split for Luka
It’s elite with 34ppg
Every single player here is a star. No exceptions
Jake SuperstaRavia
He gonna evolve into Staraptor after making all nba
Star merchants
luka 20.2%. Tied for 27th
I expected him to have more. He gets to deal with a lot of physicality and drives into the paint a lot.
He would be much higher if he wasn’t such a bad free throw shooter compared to his other shots.
Yeah, but even with 100% FT shooting he'd only be at spot 8.
Sorry Jake, I was unfamiliar with your game.
It's always the ones you most suspect
Where is well-documented-by-NBA-reddit free-throw merchant, Austin Reaves?
I checked his last couple seasons: * 2022-23: 27.5% * 2023-24: 17.8%
Bullying the refs worked
he went from getting some extremely questionable calls to getting absolutely molested in the paint with nothing this year lol
Based on r/nfl, I expected no less than 5 Lakers in the top 10. This is very interesting.
Yeah, there is a distinct lack of the team that gets all the calls on this list.
Or Jalen Brunson ?!
Where lakers?
Where is free throw wizard sorcerer supreme Jalen Brunson? I thought he was a free throw grifter?
I checked out of curiosity, he's at 19%. 421 free throws out of 2212 points.
Man anybody that watches Brunson knows he deserves them free throws. Dude be penetrating like a mad man
Anybody who actually watches the Knicks knows that Brunson has a [really bad whistle](https://i.imgur.com/duiOP6b.png)
mavs fans remember. he got a bad whistle with us too
Dude was getting mauled as an undersized guard. It was one of the biggest issues later in the season. That really wears you down.
During the playoffs you’d think he was embiid the way sixers and pacers fans were calling it. Morons
A whole lot of projection from Philly fans was happening.
Who is LaRavia?
Don’t know why you are being downvoted for a reasonable question He’s a wing who was drafted in 2022 where we acquired him on draft night in a trade that included Kessler, so far he’s had a pretty underwhelming career (that’s putting it kindly, he was BAD) and a few injuries affects him, but last 2 months or so of the season during the injury crisis he stepped
Thanks 👍
Yep, that's about right.
Suck it Windhorst
Not a lot of champions on this list
Hmmmm no Lakers?
And people call Brunson a foul merchant smh
To be fair i think that was just a playoff thing because he was getting an amazing whistle then
His usage % probably took a fair jump after Randle got hurt. That's relevant because I think there's a correlation between the offense running almost entirely through one guy and foul baiting. Don't know what the main reason would be but I know there's probably multiple factors
Because he's tiny, plays within 18 feet of the hoop and took 40 shots a game. Yeah, he's gonna get calls.
He’s not on the list cause every time he gets fouled he still makes the shot. These other cats can’t hang with the and-1 merchant.
Now do Lebron
Jimmy, I'm bout to pump fake 31 times, Buckets does not get enough heat for his generational foul baiting
where's brunson the recently labeled foul baiter? doesn't he have one of the highest drive % and paint attempts in the league?
Watched a bunch of Miami games this last season, and that definitely checks out.
For those who don’t know, Laravia gets his ass kicked every night. Always hits the floor hard
I was told Brunson was a bum without his free throws 🤷♂️
(where's wallace voice) where's brunson at?? where's brunson string?? where's brunson???
Jake LaFraudvia
NBA University presents Foul Merchants
How do you make this something used to complain about the Lakers?
Good look for Luka and Brunson
Doesn't this favor poor ft shooters like Luka or Giannis, punish good ft shooters like Embiid and Shai? Seems like a weird metric to use because people don't care about how many you make, they complain about how many you shoot and how you get them.
It favors perimeter players who take a lot of jumpshots. Players draw more fouls on 3s than they used to but vast majority are still from 2s and you draw more at the rim than taking long 2s. So if players like Embiid, Jimmy, Derozan Zion and SGA are going yo be high up because they are interior scorers who don't take a lot of 3s. It isn't really the gotcha stat that people are acting like. But yeah Giannis is lower because he is making his ftas. If he shot 90% from the line, he'd have 29.1% of points from fts. If Luka was a 90% free throw shooter, he'd only go up to like 22%.
Wouldn't qualify Luka as a poor ft shooter. He shot 79% last year which is 1% above the league average. Giannis is at 67%
1% above league average, which factors bigs and everyone who can't shoot. I don't know what the average for guards would be, but I'm guessing it's a fair bit higher. This year was his best year, before that he was a 73.9% shooter. And despite it being his career high, he was still below average. Luka is great at many things, shooting freethrows is not one of them
Like someone else said, he'd still only be at 24% if he shot 100% from the FT, which is an absurd idea. He'd still be outside of the top 8 if he shot 100% and outside of the top 10 if he shot 90% So this line of reasoning goes nowhere.
Yea but Luka shot the 2nd most FTA attempts and isn’t even on the list cause he missed too many of them
He's not on the list because he's scoring shitton of points in other ways.
I don't see any Lakers on there, despite the complaints
Hope Jimmy goes to Philly just to make Sixers fans watch ft all game, every game. Bonus if they get bounced in the second round.
Embiid would be #1 if Jimmy took as many FGA per game as him
Giannis would be top 3 if he was a better FT shooter.
I imagine Jokic is low on the list?
Somebody called the Better Business Bureau on these Foul Merchants
Sixers need to get Butler, DeRozan, and Embiid together
Interesting that the team that had the biggest ft disparity has no players on the top 10 largest portion of points from the ft line.
Disgusting FT merchants.