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The case is not about having classified documents, its about lying about it when they asked for them back, lying to your lawyers, hiding and obfuscating the truth, refusing to give everything back they asked for.
[Not the first time he's used that excuse](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/6/7/2173812/-It-s-not-the-first-time-Trump-claimed-a-flood-destroyed-evidence)
Just like Donald Trump isn't currently on trial for having an months-long affair with a Playmate or having a sexual encounter with a pornstar mere weeks after his third wife gave birth to his fifth child. He's on trial for falsifying business records to conceal his affairs from the American public on the eve of the 2016 election.
Yet here we are. Right wing media outlets are pure propaganda and far too many Americans, even if they're not MAGA at all, are more than fine not paying any attention to the *FIRST EVER* criminal trial of a former U.S. President, a man who will be on the ballot for President once again this November. What a sad indictment of this pathetic country and its citizens.
The main problem is that
When I was a kid, me and two friends went to the theater to see a movie. While we waited in line to buy tickets, one of my friends started waiving his money in the air bragging about how he would have enough left over to buy popcorn and soda - and we didn't.
Two seconds later, he got jumped by some bigger kids who snatched his cash right out of his hands.
He starts crying, points at us and cries out, "They have money too!!"
We had to run our asses off but we managed to narrowly escape.
When I was a kid, me and two friends went to the theater to see a movie. While we waited in line to buy tickets, one of my friends started waiving his money in the air bragging about how he would have enough left over to buy popcorn and soda - and we didn't.
Two seconds later, he got jumped by some bigger kids who snatched his cash right out of his hands.
He starts crying, points at us and yells out, "They have money too!!"
The moral of the story? Only shits throw their friends into harm's way - although it's true Trump has no friends and it's not the first time Trump has tried to endanger his former VP.
Mike Pence did have classified documents but guess what when the Government asked for them back he gave them back. He didn't keep them and then lied about keeping them.
Pence and Biden are examples of how it should be handled when they find classified documents. Trump is not.
I think the bigger issue is why it’s so easy for people like I walk away with these documents.
Yeah, what should matter here is not simply possessing a classified document, but intent and the relative security risk of the document.
And to that point, Trump’s repeated refusal to return the documents and the childish games of hiding them demonstrate his intent, and as far as the public knows at least some of those secrets bare related to the nations nuclear security. That’s both clear as day intent, and possessing probably the most secret information in the entire government. We’ve executed people for less.
Comparing his behavior to Pence who immediately complied and turned over everything requested immediately is simply absurd.
Didn't HW Bush have nothing because he gave it all to the national archives on the way out and only kept the stuff they told him he could? If so, that's how it should be done.
Pence and Biden did the next best thing.
Pence did yes, as did Biden when he found some. Trump on the other hand decided to try moving them around hiding them, lying repeatedly about it, lying to his lawyers about it, and attempting to destroy evidence.
As did basically every other person it happened to. Their job is handling classified documents, and they go with them places all the time. Many of them have missed a few, then immediately returned them as soon as they became aware.
That is the whole point of the way they do it. They ask for them back because they know that if they brought the hammer down immediately it would just convince people to hide the evidence. So they assume it is an honest mistake, and only take this kind of action if the person does not give them back or does something crazy with them.
Except when he found out, he cooperated with the investigation and didn't hide things. I don't have much good to say about Mike Pence, but he did the right thing here.
Trump obstructed.
So, now he's admitting it outright?
There's a difference between simply having them and mishandling them. A couple documents being in a random box or a random filing cabinet in a former government official's basement isn't as bad as *clearly marked SI* sitting in a random fucking broom closet alongside a publicly accessible space, protected with a simple shitty padlock. And it *really* isn't as bad as said intelligence getting pulled out in order to show off to foreign nationals during some soiree.
It's like justifying driving drunk while doing 100mph over on a residental street by calling out someone doing 10 over on the highway. It's fucking insane.
Yeah, Mike Pence did keep classified documents. Once it was realized he had classified documents, he willingly handed them over.
Trump lied, repeatedly, to the FBI about the Documents he had and what documents he could turn over. That’s the crux of the case: that Trump refused to return the documents the FBI demanded he return.
If we were Mike Pence, I would tell Trump not to put me involved with your scheme because he nearly had him murdered after we heard the crowd scream: HANG MIKE PENCE!
And that's Pence's word against Trump if he testified it in court.
We all know that Trump was never held accountable for anything but this is a really great example because the rest of us learned that this wouldn't work when we were in kindergarten.
Donnie was told multiple times he needed to give back the documents in question and just refused every time. He could have avoided all of this trouble by saying "My bad y'all. Here are all your missing documents. Let me know if I can help you with anything else."
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The case is not about having classified documents, its about lying about it when they asked for them back, lying to your lawyers, hiding and obfuscating the truth, refusing to give everything back they asked for.
You forgot about the attempt to destroy evidence of the crime being committed.
You mean when the janitor accidentally drained the pool into the server room?
[Not the first time he's used that excuse](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/6/7/2173812/-It-s-not-the-first-time-Trump-claimed-a-flood-destroyed-evidence)
And then maybe selling them to foreign agents too
Just like Donald Trump isn't currently on trial for having an months-long affair with a Playmate or having a sexual encounter with a pornstar mere weeks after his third wife gave birth to his fifth child. He's on trial for falsifying business records to conceal his affairs from the American public on the eve of the 2016 election. Yet here we are. Right wing media outlets are pure propaganda and far too many Americans, even if they're not MAGA at all, are more than fine not paying any attention to the *FIRST EVER* criminal trial of a former U.S. President, a man who will be on the ballot for President once again this November. What a sad indictment of this pathetic country and its citizens. The main problem is that
Yup - the docs don't even have to be classified for this to be a case.
Like that stupid hurricane map. That was not his property, even if it was his art. It's a work product and is owned by the government, not him.
Also, about sharing and showing and discussing with people these documents
When I was a kid, me and two friends went to the theater to see a movie. While we waited in line to buy tickets, one of my friends started waiving his money in the air bragging about how he would have enough left over to buy popcorn and soda - and we didn't. Two seconds later, he got jumped by some bigger kids who snatched his cash right out of his hands. He starts crying, points at us and cries out, "They have money too!!" We had to run our asses off but we managed to narrowly escape.
And also the sheer amount of material as well as who had access to it.
When I was a kid, me and two friends went to the theater to see a movie. While we waited in line to buy tickets, one of my friends started waiving his money in the air bragging about how he would have enough left over to buy popcorn and soda - and we didn't. Two seconds later, he got jumped by some bigger kids who snatched his cash right out of his hands. He starts crying, points at us and yells out, "They have money too!!" The moral of the story? Only shits throw their friends into harm's way - although it's true Trump has no friends and it's not the first time Trump has tried to endanger his former VP.
Was better the first time, that story.
Mike Pence did have classified documents but guess what when the Government asked for them back he gave them back. He didn't keep them and then lied about keeping them.
Pence and Biden are examples of how it should be handled when they find classified documents. Trump is not. I think the bigger issue is why it’s so easy for people like I walk away with these documents.
[удалено]
Yeah, what should matter here is not simply possessing a classified document, but intent and the relative security risk of the document. And to that point, Trump’s repeated refusal to return the documents and the childish games of hiding them demonstrate his intent, and as far as the public knows at least some of those secrets bare related to the nations nuclear security. That’s both clear as day intent, and possessing probably the most secret information in the entire government. We’ve executed people for less. Comparing his behavior to Pence who immediately complied and turned over everything requested immediately is simply absurd.
Didn't HW Bush have nothing because he gave it all to the national archives on the way out and only kept the stuff they told him he could? If so, that's how it should be done. Pence and Biden did the next best thing.
[удалено]
Same, and it’s insulting to some children I know and respect! 😂
"My Vice President actually endorsed me!" ~President Joe Biden
Umm……But didn’t he turn them over and allow the fbi to search for themselves?
Yes. The issue here is that trump lies so much that he forgets everything.
Pence did yes, as did Biden when he found some. Trump on the other hand decided to try moving them around hiding them, lying repeatedly about it, lying to his lawyers about it, and attempting to destroy evidence.
As did basically every other person it happened to. Their job is handling classified documents, and they go with them places all the time. Many of them have missed a few, then immediately returned them as soon as they became aware. That is the whole point of the way they do it. They ask for them back because they know that if they brought the hammer down immediately it would just convince people to hide the evidence. So they assume it is an honest mistake, and only take this kind of action if the person does not give them back or does something crazy with them.
Except when he found out, he cooperated with the investigation and didn't hide things. I don't have much good to say about Mike Pence, but he did the right thing here. Trump obstructed.
But Pence didn't hide them or move them or lie about them and tell others to lie about them. That's the difference.
So, now he's admitting it outright? There's a difference between simply having them and mishandling them. A couple documents being in a random box or a random filing cabinet in a former government official's basement isn't as bad as *clearly marked SI* sitting in a random fucking broom closet alongside a publicly accessible space, protected with a simple shitty padlock. And it *really* isn't as bad as said intelligence getting pulled out in order to show off to foreign nationals during some soiree. It's like justifying driving drunk while doing 100mph over on a residental street by calling out someone doing 10 over on the highway. It's fucking insane.
Don't forget having one of his employees take photos of them all and upload them to the cloud. Pretty sure Pence didn't do that either.
So he is a snitch as well.
Yeah, Mike Pence did keep classified documents. Once it was realized he had classified documents, he willingly handed them over. Trump lied, repeatedly, to the FBI about the Documents he had and what documents he could turn over. That’s the crux of the case: that Trump refused to return the documents the FBI demanded he return.
If everyone commits crimes, no one commits crimes amirite?
Is it happening? Is this him draining the swamp?
I thought it was more of that “winning” we were gonna be sick of by now.
Just like the toddler he is. Doesn’t make it right, Donny, now let me change your diaper.
The difference is Pence gave them back when asked
If those two ever ended up sharing a cell, I want the audio of that.
Oh look, a snitch too.
Wow, his mind is like a steel trap. Someone else is guilty too, so I must be innocent.
I love this, but he broke the law too!!! Most of us learned as kids how this backfires but not these people.
But he did it too!
A 6 year old child.
Yes and when the record department contacted him about them he handed them over. He didn't hide them in a bathroom and say he didn't have any more.
He is such a baby.
Snitch.
Pence didn't lie. Pence didn't have his attorneys lie. Pence didn't need the NARA to raid his home to collect their property.
Is this guy a fucking toddler? But he did it too!!Great defense cheesedick…
Not relevant to your crime asshole.
Not comparable…one’s inadvertent, the other was deliberate
You love to see it.
Did he give them back when he found them or was told to? That is the problem here not just having them.
Didn’t he already admit this??
Trump: I demand unconditional loyalty but fuck you. Like both ways. Give me loyalty or not. Fuck you.
Soon Trump will reveal that Pence participated in the three-way with Trump and Stormy. And that Pence made him do it.
Lol his lawyers must be so embarrassed to be submitting such ridiculous arguments. This is the legal equivalent of "the dog are my homework".
Donny the rat
If we were Mike Pence, I would tell Trump not to put me involved with your scheme because he nearly had him murdered after we heard the crowd scream: HANG MIKE PENCE! And that's Pence's word against Trump if he testified it in court.
We all know that Trump was never held accountable for anything but this is a really great example because the rest of us learned that this wouldn't work when we were in kindergarten.
Everybody learned in kindergarten that two wrongs don’t make a right … oops not everyone send him back for a redo!
Donnie was told multiple times he needed to give back the documents in question and just refused every time. He could have avoided all of this trouble by saying "My bad y'all. Here are all your missing documents. Let me know if I can help you with anything else."
Ah yes, the "he did it too" defense. Doesn't work as a kid why would it work here?
Ghouliani tried the “he did it too” defense and didn’t get very far.