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I can be for school protests and be against riots and violence.
I can be for Israel and be against Netanyahu.
I can be for Palestine and be against Hamas.
The biggest issue is others trying to force and pigeonhole everyone into a specific stance 'for or against' on nuanced and complicated issues.
I saw an argument elsewhere online that drove me a little bonkers. One side was saying “police using violence to end protests isn’t acceptable, but it should be expected. And as a corollary, if you participate in a protest, even a peaceful protest, you should expect that there’s a strong likelihood that the police will use violence to end it.”
And the other side was like “why are you excusing police violence against protesters? I should be able to go to a peaceful protest and not fear being attacked by police.”
To which the first group repeated that police violence wasn’t acceptable or appropriate, but it should be *expected*, because the police are a fundamentally broken institution. And the second group is like “wow, this is a real mask off moment, seeing you defend fascists like this.” To which the first group is like “…WTF?” And around it goes!
All of these people need to actually go live life offline. People are more reasonable and willing to get along in person. The internet is really awful for democracy. We need more IRL. It’s a more fulfilling life anyway.
There has been an observable change in the culture of the internet since the first generation to have 100% of their education under No Child Left Behind became old enough to participate in online discussions. There’s far less logic and critical thinking and everything has become a binary.
I’ve been a leftist openly critical of the Democratic Party and advocating for Palestinian liberation for nearly two decades. It’s great that more people have become aware, but it’s so frustrating to see people who just woke up to it in October ostracize people who have been doing the work for a long time because they didn’t say the exact words they want to hear. This generation started turning 18 in 2016, but waited until the 2024 primaries are almost over to start meaningfully questioning Biden and posting videos for one millions followers asking things like “how much worse can it really be under Trump?”
I’ve ended up in arguments with my housemate like this. Where I’ll say something and they will take one word and create new context for it and then be mad at me for something I never said. And then I won’t apologize because I never said it and then the benefits end for a week and I just sit and ask myself what the hell just happened??
> And as a corollary, if you participate in a protest, even a peaceful protest, you should expect that there’s a strong likelihood that the police will use violence to end it.”
And that it's normal and therefore acceptable, even though there's the disclaimer that it's not "acceptable," but should be "expected."
A little louder, please.
Hating IDF doesn't make me anti-semetic just like hating Hamas doesn't make me an Islamophobe. I support all human civilians not being used as pawns on any government or group's sycophantic chessboard.
Even Israeli citizens are against Netanyahu. Those Israeli citizens are not antisemitic because they oppose their own prime minister.
[Thousands of Israelis join anti-government protests | Reuters (archive.ph)](https://archive.ph/kTr1J)
It seems the folks who are trying to force and pigeonhole everyone into a specific stance on Israel are doing so to disingenuously bolster their moral high ground.
Yes, and people can be against bombing civilians in Gaza while also calling for a release of Hamas' hostages and not wanting all Jews in Israeli to be murdered. Instead, there are people proclaiming that "resistance is justified" as if rape and kidnapping innocent civilians, many not even Israeli, could ever be considered resistance.
Yeah that bill that just passed the house is so jarring considering most of my jewish friends are either actively protesting israel or passively through word of mouth, are we going to start locking up jewish college students critical of israel?
The internet is where nuance goes to die, unfortunately. So long as rage baiting, sensationalist content is profitable - social media influencers will continue to propound it.
Those with power want the masses to be pushed into the most extreme opposing positions so we fight each other instead of revolting against a system that is forcing us all into an indebted working class.
Where is the violence coming from? Did you see the footage from UCLA? Why do we have to pretend that the student protestors are violent rioters even after they got violently raided by counter protestors at UCLA? What you’re saying sounds well and good but it’s utterly disingenuous. There haven’t even been that many bad actors in relation to other big protests and yet the crackdown has been nothing short of authoritarian.
When the protests are on school campuses and disrupting school graduations, it is absolutely reasonable to say that non-students shouldn't be joining. Go find somewhere else to protest. Ideally, somewhere that's in some way actually involved in the Isreal/Gaza conflict.
If you cherry pick anecdotes you can tell whatever story you want. There have absolutely been pro-Pal protesters engaging in vandalism and false imprisonment.
If I come to your house and sit on your bed and refuse to leave and you forcibly remove me, you the violent one?
If someone can force you into a specific stance then it’s easier to manipulate you and control you. The more nuanced your view is the harder it is to get you to blindly follow orders. This goes for pretty much any situation
This! A million times!!! This is a complex geopolitical situation and war that is being massively oversimplified. The reaction on the other hand, especially by my fellow Americans, is easy to explain. You see, back in about 2012-2016 nuance officially died in this country. Everything is absolute extremes and black and white now. It's all just a series of echo chambers shouting one extreme or the other at each other. No one wants to debate, change their minds, or have their minds changed. No one actually wants to do or change a goddamned thing. It's all just arguing for the sake of arguing. Most people honestly aren't capable of having a more complex thought than yes or no anymore.
>The biggest issue is others trying to force and pigeonhole everyone into a specific stance 'for or against' on nuanced and complicated issues.
I faced this take a lot on social media and reddit. People are picking teams rather than realizing how complicated the issue is. There's also been a lot of unnecessary antisemitism and Islamophobia.
Over half arrested in Columbia not affiliated with Columbia or City College.
https://youtu.be/Pp7Rkami3-c?si=kp17ufRS3vfsCLc3
At this point it’s best for Biden not to allow these encampments popping up in college protests, why can’t they just do a hunger strike
Lol the only source for this news story is the NYPD. You know, the guys who took a standard bike lock a million college kids would have as evidence they are being financed by nefarious outside groups?
Incredibly difficult thing to lie about considering their mugshots, names and arrest records, heck, even videos of the arrests are and will be available for the world to see. Would have been disproved already if it was a hoax.
When Dr King went to Birmingham, Al, for anti-segregation protests, he was an outsider. He and the civil rights leaders and organizers were called outside agitators.
Listen I get not liking the people who pretend to be part of a peaceful protest who decide to get violent because thats really all they came there (in bad faith) to do. That happens in most modern protests. Heck the FBI will send in agents to organizing efforts to try to recruit people to commit violence to make the who movement look bad. It's sucks really no matter who the bad actors are. We're Americans, we should be able to communicate with words and peaceful actions, not violence.
For context, I think the leaders of Hamas and Bibi belong in the Hague for the rest of their life. I believe in a Two state solution, and I believe the illegal squatters from Israel should be removed, and their illegal settlements be used as refugee camps, until proper buildings and infrastructure can be built in Gaza after this is over.
Well put. Humans dont need to be constantly pigeonholed. We’re actually quite intelligent and we can consider lots of opposing concepts, weigh the pros and cons, and come to reasonable conclusions. Doesn’t sell ads or clicks but worth the effort for democracy.
You know what stopped Israel from being in a constant state of war with Egypt and Jordan?
Those countries decided to, you know, stop declaring war once a decade, and actually *sign a peace treaty.* Egypt in 1979, Jordan in 1994. And since then, Israel hasn't dropped a single bomb in either of those countries. Because they chose *peace.*
*That's* what it would take to "stop Israel". Palestinian leadership actually acknowledging Israel's existence and actually stopping all the rape, torture, kidnapping, and slaughtering of Israelis.
What actions dod the Allies take after the surrender of Axis countries at the end of ww2? It’s important to understand Japan and Germany are better off now than many of the victorious sides of the conflict.
I know that you're trying to say here but you do see how that would be for both Israelis and Palestinians by no longer killing them right? Like, that's objectively a good way to benefit the Palestinians right now. Afterward it would be more complicated but a very very good way to benefit Palestinians would be to stop bombing them and pull out of Gaza, yes.
All life is sacred.
If Hamas surrenders the death stops.
If Israel surrenders the death multiplies.
If you don't want Hamas to surrender, you are pro death.
The protests generally aren’t violent until the cops get there. Or, like at UCLA, the “counter protestors” showing up with pipes, bear spray and fireworks.
Same playbook when i was at Occupy Wall St and then again at BLM protests
They sometimes straight up send plain clothes cops in as agitators and then use it as an excuse to unfold chaos
Then the media runs a narrative that the chaos is *because* of the protests
Then politicians say the protests are shamefully chaotic because their owners wont allow any rhetoric that might convey the proletariat has power thru protest
Why? Because I brought something up that makes you even slightly uncomfortable thinking you might not have as high of a moral ground as the rest of us?
Welcome to the realm of nuance bud. It gets even better, trust me. The world is grey.
remember, when you see all those old wholesome photos of 'peaceful protest' of proud men and women locking arms and marching across a bridge or sitting in together.
remember their arms were locked to prevent cops from tearing them apart, the bridge they're marching across was to shut down traffic unauthorized. the sit in was blocking a business or school from operating as normal.
they were trespassers, without permits, they were breaking the rules.
to the cops that brutalized them, to the schools that suspended them, the businesses that called the cops to have them trespassed did not view them as 'peaceful'.
the point is disruption. to force a conversation. the authority who refuses to entertain the conversation is the side that escalates the issue.
What's fascinating is Reading Dr. King's letter from a Birmingham jail. In it he laid out all the steps they went through to avoid a protest. They tried to work with city councilors. They even delayed the protest to not interfere with an election. And despite all their efforts they were spurned by the local political leaders, and the result was the protest, and Dr King and many others being arrested.
Tenants of civil disobedience is to break the laws, especially the unjust ones, but to also be willing to passively suffer the consequences of that law breaking. The government deciding when and where peaceful protestors can express their fundamental rights of free speech is exactly why it's a fundamental right.
To be honest, this aspect is what I actually feel is lacking in a lot of protests: they *don't* feel planned to inconvenience or concern the powerful. They're *disruptive*, but not to the people that need disruption.
Optics is everything here. If you managed to get attention, but only for causing pain to fellow working class people, what actually has been accomplished? Does that actually advance the cause?
I'm sure people absolutely believe so, but I emphatically do not.
When you learn about the Civil Rights movement and the level of organisation, it's pretty amazing. Before sit in and such, they would have meetings and trainings to get their protestors used to people getting in their face and assualting them so they wouldn't react violently to the provocation. It was something else.
Some of the college protests stem from those colleges sending money to Israel and the students are protesting that they don't want their tuition money to support a genocide.
If this is the attitude we have, it's clear we haven't moved on from the attitudes of the 1960s. These protestors have the same attitude and tactics of the anti-war protestors of the 1960s, and the public reaction has been the exact same as that we gave to those protestors.
Yep. That's the "disobedience" part of civil disobedience. You have to break rules to enact change.
However the "civil" part also means not resisting arrest and accepting the consequences. Otherwise it's just illegal behavior with no consequences, or worse is when protesters resist and it escalates to violence. This is exactly what the other side wants, because then it can be dismissed as reckless vandalism and lawbreakers getting their just desserts.
For it to be true civil disobedience, you have to break rules and face the consequences without resistance. It has a real cost (e.g. suspension from school, arrest, etc.) and those consequences are what fuel the political backlash.
The latest Gaza protests started before Israel invaded Gaza, many people see the protests as repugnant, especially those affected by 9/11.
I'm arguing that the messaging of the protests is too extreme, one thing is that the college protests are calling for divestment from Israel, that would essentially hurt the 'innocent' Israeli population. These protestors would be a lot more effective if they simply called for a ceasefire. They took it too far by calling for a lot of other things, including using their normal chants that call for the destruction of Israel.
I keep seeing the repeated point of police brutality yet honestly I have yet to see convincing evidence.
If anything by and large the police response has been well handled and restrained. Yes, people have been arrested, that is a consequence of civil disobedience. But arrests are not brutality and while a small number of campuses (notably UCLA and Arizona) have seen incidents by and large the police response has seemed to be restrained, especially in contrast to the response to the George Floyd protests of a few years ago.
Edit - mods locked chain preventing new comments but the Columbia "incident" was an accidental discharge of a weapon when no protestors were present (it happened well after removal) and nobody was injured. Dumb cop is dumb but that is hardly an example of police brutality.
Mass arrests are not violence. If you have evidence of widespread brutality against protestors please do share it. But again outside of a few isolated instances I just haven’t seen protestors getting clubbed or treated extremely poorly by police.
Columbias encampment for example was cleared without incident as have several others. I’m all for calling out police misconduct, but we also need to acknowledge when situations that have the potential to and have gone very wrong in the past are handled with relative restraint.
Sure riot police look scary, but looking scary ain’t violence.
Edit - Woooowww they blocked me for this…
> I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will.
MLK said this about the civil rights movements decades ago, but it feels relevant here. Biden is a good guy. but his focus is on maintaining order more so than doing what’s right, in this context. I fear this will cost him plenty of votes and possibly the election.
No but if you give a shit about Palestinians, Trump is certainly not the answer. He criticizes Biden for not being supportive enough of Israel and has advocated for Netanyahu to deliver a swift victory. Which to my mind says not only would he send more funding for war but he also wouldn't be calling for any ceasefires.
But what if it's the cops who are making the protests violent?
We all recall the civil rights film rolls of protestor staging a sit in and get sprayed by a water cannon, beaten by cops etc. Many right wing politicians complained about those protestors as outside agitators etc.
The US still hasn't figured out how to handle protestors and it never will.
The US has absolutely figured out how to handle protestors. The way it's currently handled stops the public from having a meaningful voice on purpose.
No matter who throws the first stone, it becomes the protestors fault, and now that the protest is violent, their message doesn't matter regardless of its merit.
If by "figure out" you mean come to the table, deliberate on demands, face the truth, and do what's right, then no, of course it never will because the state was not designed to serve the public, it's designed to serve the elite. From the very beginning.
>All communities divide themselves into the few and the many. The first are the **rich and well born**, the other the **mass of the people**. The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true in fact. The people are turbulent and changing; they seldom judge or determine right. Give therefore to the first class a distinct, **permanent share in the government**. They will check the unsteadiness of the second, and as they cannot receive any advantage by a change, they therefore will ever maintain good government. Can a democratic assembly, who annually revolve in the mass of the people, be supposed steadily to pursue the public good? Nothing but a permanent body can check **the imprudence of democracy**. Their turbulent and uncontrouling disposition requires checks. - Alexander Hamilton, Monday, June 19th, 1787, Constitutional Convention
>The man who is possessed of wealth, who lolls on his sofa or rolls in his carriage, cannot judge of the wants or feelings of the day laborer. The government we mean to erect is intended to last for ages. The landed interest, at present, is prevalent; but in process of time, when we approximate to the states and kingdoms of Europe; when the number of landholders shall be comparatively small, through the various means of trade and manufactures, will not the landed interest be overbalanced in future elections, and unless wisely provided against, what will become of your government? In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of the landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect **the minority of the opulent** against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability. Various have been the propositions; but my opinion is, the longer they continue in office, the better will these views be answered. - James Madison, Tuesday, June 26th, 1787, Constitutional Convention
Consequences of the university protests:
https://x.com/Powerfulmindx/status/1784612660845162932
If it's cops making it violent you still can't be violent in return, that will make things worse in the short and long term. You document it and do your best to hold them accountable when everyone is safe.
If people in the South hadn't "trespassed" on lunch counters, we would still have segregation. I don't consider trespassing as violent or a need for overhanded police conduct. He should be more concerned with counter protesters violence than the nonviolent trespassing anti-genocide protesters.
Civil disobedience protests that are meant to disrupt everyday life are effective in 2 scenarios.
Scenario A: When the civil disobedience is meant to raise awareness for a low salience issue.
Scenario B: When the civil disobedience directly impacts individuals that are responsible for the wrong being protested.
The civil rights protests like sit ins clearly fall into category B.
Personally, I just don't see the current campus protests as effective in targeting Biden. Not when a clearly successful alternative already exists in the uncommitted movement. Now maybe they are effective at targeting universities to join the BDS movement, but evidence is slim and the schools administrators that make the decision by and large do not appear to be materially impacted. Maybe they are betting on a government overesponse to trigger nationwide sympathies like the 68 protests did. But I just am not seeing it.
I am both surprised and also not surprised that police escalation at these protests is not part of the overall discussion about the protest goals, effect, impact, or the political reaction, all things considered.
Just saying, right or wrong, police in my hometown are rougher than diamonds and known, indebted, and legitimate executioners. Kids are going to get killed soon over a sit in at the wrong place. Biden won't send in the national guard. WTF would Trump do?
From watching the UCLA protest thats not the way it looked to me Zionist showed up and violently attacked the camp for 3 hours police did nothing allowed them to leave no arrest. The next day peaceful protest yet they brought in 400 police to break up the encampment. Just like in Portland the police were always blind or gone when proud boys decided to come into town and assault people. Sure looks like police do protect violent protesters
Violent protests were never allowed. The main point I've taken from this is peaceful protests can continue, but they will not impact political decisions. Reminds me of that SouthPark bit about having your cake and eating it too.
Biden also further said the protest hasn’t changed his view on Israel and he will remain a stead fast supporter of Israel
Proof - https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/university-protests-pro-palestinian-israel-05-02-24/h_9da2d3690aa8d75b1f2830bc041be4ba
Given the polling its his best play, the GOP are probably spinning up adds tying the Dems to the protests, and that is going to hurt them a lot more then siding with the protestors. Fair or unfair the protestors are not winning the pr war right now in the US, if you did not notices the Democrats started coming out against them over the last week or so, the internals were probably looking terrible.
I would argue it is more than just an issue. It is likely THE issue, just like it was in the midterms. Especially with the number of ballot initiatives and restrictive laws being passed or dredged up.
>President Biden was sharply critical Thursday of aspects of protests that have swept across college campuses nationwide in response to the war in Gaza, condemning vandalism and trespassing even as he defended the right to peacefully demonstrate.
>He called out what has occurred at Columbia University and on other college campuses over the past week, which has garnered national attention as tensions have escalated and police disassemble encampments.
>“Destroying property is not a peaceful protest, it’s against the law. Vandalism, trespassing, breaking windows, shutting down campuses, forcing the cancellation of classes and graduation. None of this is a peaceful protest, threatening people, intimidating people,” Biden said.
For all the talk about "violence" and "law-breaking" I've heard fuck-all from politicians when these protestors were attacked by counter-demonstrators.
So those pro-Israeli counterprotestors from the other night are going to be rounded up for attacking at UCLA and throwing fireworks into crowds of people?
Yay Biden!
Then do something about the police instigating violence. This is the shit that loses Biden the support of the younger generation. We live in a police state where neo-nazis are escorted through town while waving swastika flags, but here they're getting tear gassed and shot with rubber bullets.
Let's be real and honest here. Why is no one talking about the serious threat this is. Our house of representatives has drafted and passed a bill that restricts our first amendment. Where is the outrage? This singular event is something that could, and should be used to rally the ENTIRE nation. OUR CONGRESS JUST VOTED TO RESTRICT THE FIRST AMENDMENT OF THE US CONSTITUTION AT THE BEHEST OF A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT. EVERY SINGLE REP WHO VOTED YES ON THIS SHOULD, AT MINIMUM, STEP DOWN FROM THEIR OFFICE. They swore an oath to uphold OUR constitution. This is at least dereliction of duty if not outright treason.
If the bill were to become law, it would codify a definition of anti-Semitism created by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) in Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. That is a federal anti-discrimination law that bars discrimination based on shared ancestry, ethnic characteristics or national origin.
Idk what you're raging about. Unless you planned on discriminating against Jews or something. It's literally just changing the definition in protections that already exist.
The only caveat I would add to the statement "Violent protests are not protected" is "unless they didn't become violent until the police got involved."
Because law enforcement has a long, long track record of directly causing nonviolent protests to turn into violent ones.
The only violence was perpetrated by the pro-Israel agitators. I don’t support vandalizing and all that but these protestors have only been “violent” when they’ve been attacked.
I think it should become law that the federal government send a witness to every major protest so they can determine who initiated the violence. Protestors or police.
Primarily because Biden’s entire shtick is “the other guy is worse”. Some people will tolerate that when the other guys is in the White House and is hilariously mismanaging the country during a miserable time period, but it wears thin when those previous conditions have dissipated.
Oh wow ok, so he condemns the BLM protests? Or was he kneeling with them like every other democrat who now is sending the police to beat up students in full riot gear?
He didn't have an issue with protests when Trump was President but now they're a problem?
All these people want is for the US to get tough on Israel instead of just letting them get away with killing so many innocent people and then rolling out the red carpet for them as they shoot journalists, shoot women and bomb children. How many more aid workers need to die? Israel has already killed many and then bombed people starving to death, cut off their food supply, bombed hospitals where children were being treated.
This has nothing to do with antisemitism that's just the tired old excuse being pushed by AIPAC who also funded Donald Trumps campaign along with all the other MAGA republicans, none of these protesters are being antisemitic, they just care about Palestinians
Biden did condemn the riots back in the summer of 2020 and there are some ignoramus bigots in the encampments, especially the ones who thinks all the Jewish Israelis are “colonizers.”
Honestly, shocked he took a stand.
“In moments like this, there are always those who rush in to score political points. But this isn’t a moment for politics. It’s a moment for clarity. So let me be clear … Violent protest is not protected. Peaceful protest is.”
I’m impressed.
Took a stand for what? I’m pretty sure he’s condemning the students/ is willfully painting them out as thugs even though they’re almost entirely peaceful
Then why hasn’t he spoken to the mass arrests of peaceful protestors, and specifically to the violent raid at the UCLA encampment? He is being intentionally vague so that when people scan the headlines, they’ll blame the students. UCLA admin and the mayor of LA did the same thing
He did. "Peaceful protest is [protected]." That's not vague.
He doesn't have power to pardon/release them from jail for city/county/state infractions, or to issue orders to these police.
Most of those protesting were never voting for Biden, they were voting against Trump and I highly doubt the arithmetic there has changed enough to be significant. Not as it becomes clearer and clearer that Trump will be opposite the ballot from Biden come November.
He's exactly right, violence isn't protected, but peaceful dissent is protected. Obviously when outside agitators come in and purposefully cause violence (e.g. a GOP governor sending in police en masse to "control" a situation, or right-wing propagandists vandalizing property) that can instigate violence from all sides but it's imperative that people who want these universities to divest their resources from Israel and want peaceful resolution to the the Israeli/Hamas conflict, recognize that these outside agitators are not on their side and that NO violence should be tolerated.
To get people join your side, you have to convince them, not force them.
Before too many people claim “Biden will lose votes for this!” Or “I can’t vote for Biden because he said this!” … remember when Trump was president he wanted to bring in the US military to “break up” BLM protests. And even now when he’s not president he’s said multiple times he’d put the military on US streets day one. The military had to be the one to tell him this was a terrible idea.
One side is denouncing violence while supporting non violent protests. The other side is supporting using the military against our own citizens.
So yeah if you’re thinking Biden doesn’t deserve your vote because of this statement, remember the other guy would love the opportunity to make sure you don’t have the right to make any statement in protest.
These protests show how weak the West has become and how easily we can be manipulated into purist positions on complex, nuanced situations.
This is a war. War has unfortunate and mostly deadly results. War is ugly, and doesn't care what your feelings think about war.
Hamas is 100% responsible for this war and has the means of laying down their weapons and surrendering. Freeing their own people from the consequences of HAMAS' ACTIONS.
Protest the war all you want, but enough is enough with the antisemitic rhetoric, and gaslighting anyone who dares push back on the antisemitism coming out of these "encampments", and screaming bUt tHe gEnOcIdE.
Wake up, because you're going to usher in Project 2025 if you don't.
I'm going to be flippant because the situation merits flippancy. I'm sick and tired of emotionally charged responses of, " bUt thE gEnOcIdE" or "tEns oF tHoUsanDs oF chIlDrEn". . enough. Hamas started this war and Hamas can end the war.
Not one single protester chants for Hamas to end the war, for Hamas to end the terror, for Iran to stop the funding of generational terror, etc. Not a single one. All I hear is antisemitic rhetoric and hate being spewed all over PUBLIC property. I see Palestinian flags replacing the US'. What is happening to the Far Left?
Since 2014, Yemen was bombed by Saudi Arabia with WEAPONS FROM THE US, almost a half million dead. Not a single college campus was "liberated" in the US during that war. Not one tent was pitched on a campus. No buildings ransacked and "taken over".
Give me a break. This is about ISRAEL and Jewish people, not a war, not a gEnOcIdE and not about tHe cHiLdReN.
Both Hamas's actions and Israel's actions can be simultaneously bad. Just because Hamas is worse, that doesn't give us the go-ahead to allow Israel to abandon morality.
That's how you enable a new Hamas to be created. Thank goodness people are aware of Israel's war crimes.
yeah, I agree with him. This is 100% is not what you said, but HOW you said it situation.
If you want to protest. Go for it there are peaceful and legitimately legal ways to do so.
You want to disturb the peace, and create potentially violent situations, then you can go fuck yourselves. 🤷🏽♂️
The US foreign policy has always supported Israel even in its current apartheid genocidal state. If people vote against Biden for continuing to support a major US ally enjoy more Trump years part 2. I doubt his administration will support public protests of any kind.
Every Biden admin statement on these protests have been critical. Every statement has highlighted violence or accused them of antisemitism. In no way has this admin supported the protests beyond the heavily asterisked "we support peaceful protests" that has no specifics.
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I can be for school protests and be against riots and violence. I can be for Israel and be against Netanyahu. I can be for Palestine and be against Hamas. The biggest issue is others trying to force and pigeonhole everyone into a specific stance 'for or against' on nuanced and complicated issues.
I saw an argument elsewhere online that drove me a little bonkers. One side was saying “police using violence to end protests isn’t acceptable, but it should be expected. And as a corollary, if you participate in a protest, even a peaceful protest, you should expect that there’s a strong likelihood that the police will use violence to end it.” And the other side was like “why are you excusing police violence against protesters? I should be able to go to a peaceful protest and not fear being attacked by police.” To which the first group repeated that police violence wasn’t acceptable or appropriate, but it should be *expected*, because the police are a fundamentally broken institution. And the second group is like “wow, this is a real mask off moment, seeing you defend fascists like this.” To which the first group is like “…WTF?” And around it goes!
All of these people need to actually go live life offline. People are more reasonable and willing to get along in person. The internet is really awful for democracy. We need more IRL. It’s a more fulfilling life anyway.
There has been an observable change in the culture of the internet since the first generation to have 100% of their education under No Child Left Behind became old enough to participate in online discussions. There’s far less logic and critical thinking and everything has become a binary. I’ve been a leftist openly critical of the Democratic Party and advocating for Palestinian liberation for nearly two decades. It’s great that more people have become aware, but it’s so frustrating to see people who just woke up to it in October ostracize people who have been doing the work for a long time because they didn’t say the exact words they want to hear. This generation started turning 18 in 2016, but waited until the 2024 primaries are almost over to start meaningfully questioning Biden and posting videos for one millions followers asking things like “how much worse can it really be under Trump?”
I’ve ended up in arguments with my housemate like this. Where I’ll say something and they will take one word and create new context for it and then be mad at me for something I never said. And then I won’t apologize because I never said it and then the benefits end for a week and I just sit and ask myself what the hell just happened??
There's a fallacy for that: https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-straw-man/
> And as a corollary, if you participate in a protest, even a peaceful protest, you should expect that there’s a strong likelihood that the police will use violence to end it.” And that it's normal and therefore acceptable, even though there's the disclaimer that it's not "acceptable," but should be "expected."
Just because something is normal doesn’t make it acceptable. Progress happens when the unacceptable stops being normal.
My point is they're normalizing violence.
A little louder, please. Hating IDF doesn't make me anti-semetic just like hating Hamas doesn't make me an Islamophobe. I support all human civilians not being used as pawns on any government or group's sycophantic chessboard.
Even Israeli citizens are against Netanyahu. Those Israeli citizens are not antisemitic because they oppose their own prime minister. [Thousands of Israelis join anti-government protests | Reuters (archive.ph)](https://archive.ph/kTr1J) It seems the folks who are trying to force and pigeonhole everyone into a specific stance on Israel are doing so to disingenuously bolster their moral high ground.
Yes, and people can be against bombing civilians in Gaza while also calling for a release of Hamas' hostages and not wanting all Jews in Israeli to be murdered. Instead, there are people proclaiming that "resistance is justified" as if rape and kidnapping innocent civilians, many not even Israeli, could ever be considered resistance.
Yeah that bill that just passed the house is so jarring considering most of my jewish friends are either actively protesting israel or passively through word of mouth, are we going to start locking up jewish college students critical of israel?
Yes because they're obviously following the teachings of the well known anti-Semite Bernie Sanders /s
More like Adolph Sanders, amiright?
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They failed to manufacturer their human tragedy into another "9/11" campaign.
Funny what happens when you start bombing civilians... tell the civilians to evacuate where it's safe, then bomb the civilians.
Screw you I'm blaming tic toc
So, are you saying all Israelis are guilty because the state was seeking vengeance?
No, but Benjamin Netanyahu is. It's his fault that Israel is facing the predicament .
The internet is where nuance goes to die, unfortunately. So long as rage baiting, sensationalist content is profitable - social media influencers will continue to propound it.
Yes, exactly that. There is no contradiction in wanting to support both the Israeli and Palestinian people.
Bingo. Wish more people understood this.
Those with power want the masses to be pushed into the most extreme opposing positions so we fight each other instead of revolting against a system that is forcing us all into an indebted working class.
Biden said the exact same message as a candidate during BLM too.
Where is the violence coming from? Did you see the footage from UCLA? Why do we have to pretend that the student protestors are violent rioters even after they got violently raided by counter protestors at UCLA? What you’re saying sounds well and good but it’s utterly disingenuous. There haven’t even been that many bad actors in relation to other big protests and yet the crackdown has been nothing short of authoritarian.
Half of those arrested aren’t even students.
And not every person protesting for civil rights were black. Its not unusual for outsiders to join political protest.
When the protests are on school campuses and disrupting school graduations, it is absolutely reasonable to say that non-students shouldn't be joining. Go find somewhere else to protest. Ideally, somewhere that's in some way actually involved in the Isreal/Gaza conflict.
If you cherry pick anecdotes you can tell whatever story you want. There have absolutely been pro-Pal protesters engaging in vandalism and false imprisonment. If I come to your house and sit on your bed and refuse to leave and you forcibly remove me, you the violent one?
If someone can force you into a specific stance then it’s easier to manipulate you and control you. The more nuanced your view is the harder it is to get you to blindly follow orders. This goes for pretty much any situation
This! A million times!!! This is a complex geopolitical situation and war that is being massively oversimplified. The reaction on the other hand, especially by my fellow Americans, is easy to explain. You see, back in about 2012-2016 nuance officially died in this country. Everything is absolute extremes and black and white now. It's all just a series of echo chambers shouting one extreme or the other at each other. No one wants to debate, change their minds, or have their minds changed. No one actually wants to do or change a goddamned thing. It's all just arguing for the sake of arguing. Most people honestly aren't capable of having a more complex thought than yes or no anymore.
Thank you for acknowledging that the world isn't a binary condition. Wish more people were capable of this.
This is exactly right. Well said.
>The biggest issue is others trying to force and pigeonhole everyone into a specific stance 'for or against' on nuanced and complicated issues. I faced this take a lot on social media and reddit. People are picking teams rather than realizing how complicated the issue is. There's also been a lot of unnecessary antisemitism and Islamophobia.
Over half arrested in Columbia not affiliated with Columbia or City College. https://youtu.be/Pp7Rkami3-c?si=kp17ufRS3vfsCLc3 At this point it’s best for Biden not to allow these encampments popping up in college protests, why can’t they just do a hunger strike
Ahhh yes YouTube my favorite source for valid information
Lol the only source for this news story is the NYPD. You know, the guys who took a standard bike lock a million college kids would have as evidence they are being financed by nefarious outside groups?
Incredibly difficult thing to lie about considering their mugshots, names and arrest records, heck, even videos of the arrests are and will be available for the world to see. Would have been disproved already if it was a hoax.
When Dr King went to Birmingham, Al, for anti-segregation protests, he was an outsider. He and the civil rights leaders and organizers were called outside agitators. Listen I get not liking the people who pretend to be part of a peaceful protest who decide to get violent because thats really all they came there (in bad faith) to do. That happens in most modern protests. Heck the FBI will send in agents to organizing efforts to try to recruit people to commit violence to make the who movement look bad. It's sucks really no matter who the bad actors are. We're Americans, we should be able to communicate with words and peaceful actions, not violence. For context, I think the leaders of Hamas and Bibi belong in the Hague for the rest of their life. I believe in a Two state solution, and I believe the illegal squatters from Israel should be removed, and their illegal settlements be used as refugee camps, until proper buildings and infrastructure can be built in Gaza after this is over.
Thank you. If only more people understood the concept of this.
This is why I say(and I seen others) say. Fuck Bibi specifically. Rather then fuck Isreal.
Well put. Humans dont need to be constantly pigeonholed. We’re actually quite intelligent and we can consider lots of opposing concepts, weigh the pros and cons, and come to reasonable conclusions. Doesn’t sell ads or clicks but worth the effort for democracy.
This is the most important point that absolutely nobody is talking about
Genocide is not complicated. Stop the genocide, pretty fucking simple
Oh wow. If only someone had thought of that earlier! I'm real glad you were able to finally solve the middle east.
How does one go about stopping this “genocide” Like what actions can foreign countries take to actually stop Israel?
You know what stopped Israel from being in a constant state of war with Egypt and Jordan? Those countries decided to, you know, stop declaring war once a decade, and actually *sign a peace treaty.* Egypt in 1979, Jordan in 1994. And since then, Israel hasn't dropped a single bomb in either of those countries. Because they chose *peace.* *That's* what it would take to "stop Israel". Palestinian leadership actually acknowledging Israel's existence and actually stopping all the rape, torture, kidnapping, and slaughtering of Israelis.
What actions dod the Allies take after the surrender of Axis countries at the end of ww2? It’s important to understand Japan and Germany are better off now than many of the victorious sides of the conflict.
Stop falling for this crap
Okay, let's say tomorrow Israel surrenders and completely pulls out of Gaza. Then what? How does that help both Israelis and Palestinians long term?
I know that you're trying to say here but you do see how that would be for both Israelis and Palestinians by no longer killing them right? Like, that's objectively a good way to benefit the Palestinians right now. Afterward it would be more complicated but a very very good way to benefit Palestinians would be to stop bombing them and pull out of Gaza, yes.
Hamas needs to stop killing their own people, I agree. Nothing complicated about it
But Israel can kill Palestinians all they want?
All life is sacred. If Hamas surrenders the death stops. If Israel surrenders the death multiplies. If you don't want Hamas to surrender, you are pro death.
No. If Hamas surrenders, the deaths will continue unabated. Netanyahu wants that land and will kill everyone there to get it.
I see. If this is the "west bank is worse" idea. Which is unfathomable to anyone with regard for human life.
The protests generally aren’t violent until the cops get there. Or, like at UCLA, the “counter protestors” showing up with pipes, bear spray and fireworks.
Same playbook when i was at Occupy Wall St and then again at BLM protests They sometimes straight up send plain clothes cops in as agitators and then use it as an excuse to unfold chaos Then the media runs a narrative that the chaos is *because* of the protests Then politicians say the protests are shamefully chaotic because their owners wont allow any rhetoric that might convey the proletariat has power thru protest
The protests were 100% non-violent. Just want this to be said.
100% is a hard claim to make there is always one person that messes things up for some a movement
Non-violent, probably. Peaceful? No. Destruction of property is not peaceful. Look at the videos of UCLAs library.
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Why? Because I brought something up that makes you even slightly uncomfortable thinking you might not have as high of a moral ground as the rest of us? Welcome to the realm of nuance bud. It gets even better, trust me. The world is grey.
remember, when you see all those old wholesome photos of 'peaceful protest' of proud men and women locking arms and marching across a bridge or sitting in together. remember their arms were locked to prevent cops from tearing them apart, the bridge they're marching across was to shut down traffic unauthorized. the sit in was blocking a business or school from operating as normal. they were trespassers, without permits, they were breaking the rules. to the cops that brutalized them, to the schools that suspended them, the businesses that called the cops to have them trespassed did not view them as 'peaceful'. the point is disruption. to force a conversation. the authority who refuses to entertain the conversation is the side that escalates the issue.
What's fascinating is Reading Dr. King's letter from a Birmingham jail. In it he laid out all the steps they went through to avoid a protest. They tried to work with city councilors. They even delayed the protest to not interfere with an election. And despite all their efforts they were spurned by the local political leaders, and the result was the protest, and Dr King and many others being arrested. Tenants of civil disobedience is to break the laws, especially the unjust ones, but to also be willing to passively suffer the consequences of that law breaking. The government deciding when and where peaceful protestors can express their fundamental rights of free speech is exactly why it's a fundamental right.
Protests carefully planned to not inconvenience the powerful rarely enact change.
To be honest, this aspect is what I actually feel is lacking in a lot of protests: they *don't* feel planned to inconvenience or concern the powerful. They're *disruptive*, but not to the people that need disruption. Optics is everything here. If you managed to get attention, but only for causing pain to fellow working class people, what actually has been accomplished? Does that actually advance the cause? I'm sure people absolutely believe so, but I emphatically do not.
When you learn about the Civil Rights movement and the level of organisation, it's pretty amazing. Before sit in and such, they would have meetings and trainings to get their protestors used to people getting in their face and assualting them so they wouldn't react violently to the provocation. It was something else.
The wealthy and powerful have insulated themselves more and more, away from the peasants. They're behind security and in private neighborhoods now.
Some of the college protests stem from those colleges sending money to Israel and the students are protesting that they don't want their tuition money to support a genocide.
If this is the attitude we have, it's clear we haven't moved on from the attitudes of the 1960s. These protestors have the same attitude and tactics of the anti-war protestors of the 1960s, and the public reaction has been the exact same as that we gave to those protestors.
There’s no war but class war.
America is all about celebrating the illegal but effective protests of the past while demonizing the protests of the present.
The “liberal” is for all protests except the current one. They are against all wars except the current one.
Yep. That's the "disobedience" part of civil disobedience. You have to break rules to enact change. However the "civil" part also means not resisting arrest and accepting the consequences. Otherwise it's just illegal behavior with no consequences, or worse is when protesters resist and it escalates to violence. This is exactly what the other side wants, because then it can be dismissed as reckless vandalism and lawbreakers getting their just desserts. For it to be true civil disobedience, you have to break rules and face the consequences without resistance. It has a real cost (e.g. suspension from school, arrest, etc.) and those consequences are what fuel the political backlash.
Thank you!
Nonviolent civil disobedience 101.
The latest Gaza protests started before Israel invaded Gaza, many people see the protests as repugnant, especially those affected by 9/11. I'm arguing that the messaging of the protests is too extreme, one thing is that the college protests are calling for divestment from Israel, that would essentially hurt the 'innocent' Israeli population. These protestors would be a lot more effective if they simply called for a ceasefire. They took it too far by calling for a lot of other things, including using their normal chants that call for the destruction of Israel.
I keep seeing the repeated point of police brutality yet honestly I have yet to see convincing evidence. If anything by and large the police response has been well handled and restrained. Yes, people have been arrested, that is a consequence of civil disobedience. But arrests are not brutality and while a small number of campuses (notably UCLA and Arizona) have seen incidents by and large the police response has seemed to be restrained, especially in contrast to the response to the George Floyd protests of a few years ago. Edit - mods locked chain preventing new comments but the Columbia "incident" was an accidental discharge of a weapon when no protestors were present (it happened well after removal) and nobody was injured. Dumb cop is dumb but that is hardly an example of police brutality.
Been revealed a cop fired his weapon inside the hall at Columbia, sounds pretty brutal to me.
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Mass arrests are not violence. If you have evidence of widespread brutality against protestors please do share it. But again outside of a few isolated instances I just haven’t seen protestors getting clubbed or treated extremely poorly by police. Columbias encampment for example was cleared without incident as have several others. I’m all for calling out police misconduct, but we also need to acknowledge when situations that have the potential to and have gone very wrong in the past are handled with relative restraint. Sure riot police look scary, but looking scary ain’t violence. Edit - Woooowww they blocked me for this…
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I have friends who are proud of their felony records from civil rights protests the 50s/60s, who are still diligently breaking unjust laws.
> I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. MLK said this about the civil rights movements decades ago, but it feels relevant here. Biden is a good guy. but his focus is on maintaining order more so than doing what’s right, in this context. I fear this will cost him plenty of votes and possibly the election.
...and said it from jail, no less.
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No but if you give a shit about Palestinians, Trump is certainly not the answer. He criticizes Biden for not being supportive enough of Israel and has advocated for Netanyahu to deliver a swift victory. Which to my mind says not only would he send more funding for war but he also wouldn't be calling for any ceasefires.
i wonder if mlks ghost ever gets exhausted with every dumbass college student pretending to be his spiritual successor
Probably more exhausted with every vapid centrist pretending they wouldnt have absolutely hated everything he stood for at the time.
that college student had a family
But what if it's the cops who are making the protests violent? We all recall the civil rights film rolls of protestor staging a sit in and get sprayed by a water cannon, beaten by cops etc. Many right wing politicians complained about those protestors as outside agitators etc. The US still hasn't figured out how to handle protestors and it never will.
The US has absolutely figured out how to handle protestors. The way it's currently handled stops the public from having a meaningful voice on purpose. No matter who throws the first stone, it becomes the protestors fault, and now that the protest is violent, their message doesn't matter regardless of its merit.
If by "figure out" you mean come to the table, deliberate on demands, face the truth, and do what's right, then no, of course it never will because the state was not designed to serve the public, it's designed to serve the elite. From the very beginning. >All communities divide themselves into the few and the many. The first are the **rich and well born**, the other the **mass of the people**. The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true in fact. The people are turbulent and changing; they seldom judge or determine right. Give therefore to the first class a distinct, **permanent share in the government**. They will check the unsteadiness of the second, and as they cannot receive any advantage by a change, they therefore will ever maintain good government. Can a democratic assembly, who annually revolve in the mass of the people, be supposed steadily to pursue the public good? Nothing but a permanent body can check **the imprudence of democracy**. Their turbulent and uncontrouling disposition requires checks. - Alexander Hamilton, Monday, June 19th, 1787, Constitutional Convention >The man who is possessed of wealth, who lolls on his sofa or rolls in his carriage, cannot judge of the wants or feelings of the day laborer. The government we mean to erect is intended to last for ages. The landed interest, at present, is prevalent; but in process of time, when we approximate to the states and kingdoms of Europe; when the number of landholders shall be comparatively small, through the various means of trade and manufactures, will not the landed interest be overbalanced in future elections, and unless wisely provided against, what will become of your government? In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of the landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect **the minority of the opulent** against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability. Various have been the propositions; but my opinion is, the longer they continue in office, the better will these views be answered. - James Madison, Tuesday, June 26th, 1787, Constitutional Convention Consequences of the university protests: https://x.com/Powerfulmindx/status/1784612660845162932
If it's cops making it violent you still can't be violent in return, that will make things worse in the short and long term. You document it and do your best to hold them accountable when everyone is safe.
violent protests where? all i’ve seen with my own eyes are people camping and cops being aggressive.
If people in the South hadn't "trespassed" on lunch counters, we would still have segregation. I don't consider trespassing as violent or a need for overhanded police conduct. He should be more concerned with counter protesters violence than the nonviolent trespassing anti-genocide protesters.
Civil disobedience protests that are meant to disrupt everyday life are effective in 2 scenarios. Scenario A: When the civil disobedience is meant to raise awareness for a low salience issue. Scenario B: When the civil disobedience directly impacts individuals that are responsible for the wrong being protested. The civil rights protests like sit ins clearly fall into category B. Personally, I just don't see the current campus protests as effective in targeting Biden. Not when a clearly successful alternative already exists in the uncommitted movement. Now maybe they are effective at targeting universities to join the BDS movement, but evidence is slim and the schools administrators that make the decision by and large do not appear to be materially impacted. Maybe they are betting on a government overesponse to trigger nationwide sympathies like the 68 protests did. But I just am not seeing it.
I am both surprised and also not surprised that police escalation at these protests is not part of the overall discussion about the protest goals, effect, impact, or the political reaction, all things considered. Just saying, right or wrong, police in my hometown are rougher than diamonds and known, indebted, and legitimate executioners. Kids are going to get killed soon over a sit in at the wrong place. Biden won't send in the national guard. WTF would Trump do?
The difference is: segregation was real, the genocide is not.
This is some gaslighting bullshit.
Police and right-wing provocateur violence included.
There were no violent protests until the cops showed up
And anti-protestors
It must be so convenient that police can attack peaceful protesters and the media will use passive voice to report that protests "turned violent."
They weren't violent until the police got involved in most cases.
From watching the UCLA protest thats not the way it looked to me Zionist showed up and violently attacked the camp for 3 hours police did nothing allowed them to leave no arrest. The next day peaceful protest yet they brought in 400 police to break up the encampment. Just like in Portland the police were always blind or gone when proud boys decided to come into town and assault people. Sure looks like police do protect violent protesters
It was confirmed that a Jewish woman was attacked by the pro-Palestinian crowd, and were facing retaliation.
Confirmed by who?
Violent protests were never allowed. The main point I've taken from this is peaceful protests can continue, but they will not impact political decisions. Reminds me of that SouthPark bit about having your cake and eating it too.
Biden also further said the protest hasn’t changed his view on Israel and he will remain a stead fast supporter of Israel Proof - https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/university-protests-pro-palestinian-israel-05-02-24/h_9da2d3690aa8d75b1f2830bc041be4ba
And this will cost him the election
Given the polling its his best play, the GOP are probably spinning up adds tying the Dems to the protests, and that is going to hurt them a lot more then siding with the protestors. Fair or unfair the protestors are not winning the pr war right now in the US, if you did not notices the Democrats started coming out against them over the last week or so, the internals were probably looking terrible.
And the idiots that stay home as a result of this will whine even louder when the other guy burns it all down.
Unlikely imo. Young voters were by and large never voting for Biden but against Trump, that hasn’t changed.
A lot of young women will still vote. Abortion is still an issue.
I would argue it is more than just an issue. It is likely THE issue, just like it was in the midterms. Especially with the number of ballot initiatives and restrictive laws being passed or dredged up.
Nah, he'll be fine.
>President Biden was sharply critical Thursday of aspects of protests that have swept across college campuses nationwide in response to the war in Gaza, condemning vandalism and trespassing even as he defended the right to peacefully demonstrate. >He called out what has occurred at Columbia University and on other college campuses over the past week, which has garnered national attention as tensions have escalated and police disassemble encampments. >“Destroying property is not a peaceful protest, it’s against the law. Vandalism, trespassing, breaking windows, shutting down campuses, forcing the cancellation of classes and graduation. None of this is a peaceful protest, threatening people, intimidating people,” Biden said.
For all the talk about "violence" and "law-breaking" I've heard fuck-all from politicians when these protestors were attacked by counter-demonstrators.
So those pro-Israeli counterprotestors from the other night are going to be rounded up for attacking at UCLA and throwing fireworks into crowds of people? Yay Biden!
Then do something about the police instigating violence. This is the shit that loses Biden the support of the younger generation. We live in a police state where neo-nazis are escorted through town while waving swastika flags, but here they're getting tear gassed and shot with rubber bullets.
Let's be real and honest here. Why is no one talking about the serious threat this is. Our house of representatives has drafted and passed a bill that restricts our first amendment. Where is the outrage? This singular event is something that could, and should be used to rally the ENTIRE nation. OUR CONGRESS JUST VOTED TO RESTRICT THE FIRST AMENDMENT OF THE US CONSTITUTION AT THE BEHEST OF A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT. EVERY SINGLE REP WHO VOTED YES ON THIS SHOULD, AT MINIMUM, STEP DOWN FROM THEIR OFFICE. They swore an oath to uphold OUR constitution. This is at least dereliction of duty if not outright treason.
If the bill were to become law, it would codify a definition of anti-Semitism created by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) in Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. That is a federal anti-discrimination law that bars discrimination based on shared ancestry, ethnic characteristics or national origin. Idk what you're raging about. Unless you planned on discriminating against Jews or something. It's literally just changing the definition in protections that already exist.
Tell it to the pro-genocide agent provocateurs
Biden really trying to lose the youth vote.
Snatch defeat from the jaws of victory as is tradition.
The inevitable outcome in the lead-in to a most contentious election season. People don’t learn from history, they just misquote it.
The only caveat I would add to the statement "Violent protests are not protected" is "unless they didn't become violent until the police got involved." Because law enforcement has a long, long track record of directly causing nonviolent protests to turn into violent ones.
The protesters havent havested anyone organs or executed them into a mass grave.
The only violence was perpetrated by the pro-Israel agitators. I don’t support vandalizing and all that but these protestors have only been “violent” when they’ve been attacked.
Biden, there is such a thing as nuance.
So are they going to start locking up those zoinist protesters starting the violence?
Biden needs to differentiate between “violent” and “illegal”. Occupying a building and graffiti is not violent. Sitting is a lawn is not violent.
Reality: Peaceful protesters got “violently” attacked by not-so-peaceful pro-Israel mob. Blinken: “Violent protest” not protected. Gaslighting much?
I think it should become law that the federal government send a witness to every major protest so they can determine who initiated the violence. Protestors or police.
The only violence at these protest are from the cops and the Zionists.
Destroying property isn’t “violent”…. I mean, it’s not a lawful act, but it doesn’t constitute violence IMO
Sure, Joe. We all know you're not talking about the Zionists or the cops who are actually initiating the violence.
I was listening to some young people and they really don’t like Biden.
Primarily because Biden’s entire shtick is “the other guy is worse”. Some people will tolerate that when the other guys is in the White House and is hilariously mismanaging the country during a miserable time period, but it wears thin when those previous conditions have dissipated.
They're literally sitting there in tents for most of the campus protests. Even the ones that have occupied buildings, who have they physically harmed?
Oh wow ok, so he condemns the BLM protests? Or was he kneeling with them like every other democrat who now is sending the police to beat up students in full riot gear? He didn't have an issue with protests when Trump was President but now they're a problem? All these people want is for the US to get tough on Israel instead of just letting them get away with killing so many innocent people and then rolling out the red carpet for them as they shoot journalists, shoot women and bomb children. How many more aid workers need to die? Israel has already killed many and then bombed people starving to death, cut off their food supply, bombed hospitals where children were being treated. This has nothing to do with antisemitism that's just the tired old excuse being pushed by AIPAC who also funded Donald Trumps campaign along with all the other MAGA republicans, none of these protesters are being antisemitic, they just care about Palestinians
Biden did condemn the riots back in the summer of 2020 and there are some ignoramus bigots in the encampments, especially the ones who thinks all the Jewish Israelis are “colonizers.”
Viewing Israel as a settler-colonial endeavor isn’t a bigoted stance
Honestly, shocked he took a stand. “In moments like this, there are always those who rush in to score political points. But this isn’t a moment for politics. It’s a moment for clarity. So let me be clear … Violent protest is not protected. Peaceful protest is.” I’m impressed.
Took a stand for what? I’m pretty sure he’s condemning the students/ is willfully painting them out as thugs even though they’re almost entirely peaceful
No, he was purposefully specific. The peaceful protests are fine. If a protest gets violent, it's bad.
Then why hasn’t he spoken to the mass arrests of peaceful protestors, and specifically to the violent raid at the UCLA encampment? He is being intentionally vague so that when people scan the headlines, they’ll blame the students. UCLA admin and the mayor of LA did the same thing
He did. "Peaceful protest is [protected]." That's not vague. He doesn't have power to pardon/release them from jail for city/county/state infractions, or to issue orders to these police.
The phrase empire of rust comes to mind.
Are police riots protected?
Hamas is the problem not Israel
Well, yeah
No one was violent until the cops came and started rioting on students. Congrats on loosing the election though genocide joe. Free Palestine,
Most of those protesting were never voting for Biden, they were voting against Trump and I highly doubt the arithmetic there has changed enough to be significant. Not as it becomes clearer and clearer that Trump will be opposite the ballot from Biden come November.
Vote Trump, I'm sure he'll do right by Palestine
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He's exactly right, violence isn't protected, but peaceful dissent is protected. Obviously when outside agitators come in and purposefully cause violence (e.g. a GOP governor sending in police en masse to "control" a situation, or right-wing propagandists vandalizing property) that can instigate violence from all sides but it's imperative that people who want these universities to divest their resources from Israel and want peaceful resolution to the the Israeli/Hamas conflict, recognize that these outside agitators are not on their side and that NO violence should be tolerated. To get people join your side, you have to convince them, not force them.
we’ll see if yall keep this energy the next time the klan tries to burn a cross
Before too many people claim “Biden will lose votes for this!” Or “I can’t vote for Biden because he said this!” … remember when Trump was president he wanted to bring in the US military to “break up” BLM protests. And even now when he’s not president he’s said multiple times he’d put the military on US streets day one. The military had to be the one to tell him this was a terrible idea. One side is denouncing violence while supporting non violent protests. The other side is supporting using the military against our own citizens. So yeah if you’re thinking Biden doesn’t deserve your vote because of this statement, remember the other guy would love the opportunity to make sure you don’t have the right to make any statement in protest.
And he’s right
Now we just need to redefine "violent"!
These protests show how weak the West has become and how easily we can be manipulated into purist positions on complex, nuanced situations. This is a war. War has unfortunate and mostly deadly results. War is ugly, and doesn't care what your feelings think about war. Hamas is 100% responsible for this war and has the means of laying down their weapons and surrendering. Freeing their own people from the consequences of HAMAS' ACTIONS. Protest the war all you want, but enough is enough with the antisemitic rhetoric, and gaslighting anyone who dares push back on the antisemitism coming out of these "encampments", and screaming bUt tHe gEnOcIdE. Wake up, because you're going to usher in Project 2025 if you don't.
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I'm going to be flippant because the situation merits flippancy. I'm sick and tired of emotionally charged responses of, " bUt thE gEnOcIdE" or "tEns oF tHoUsanDs oF chIlDrEn". . enough. Hamas started this war and Hamas can end the war. Not one single protester chants for Hamas to end the war, for Hamas to end the terror, for Iran to stop the funding of generational terror, etc. Not a single one. All I hear is antisemitic rhetoric and hate being spewed all over PUBLIC property. I see Palestinian flags replacing the US'. What is happening to the Far Left? Since 2014, Yemen was bombed by Saudi Arabia with WEAPONS FROM THE US, almost a half million dead. Not a single college campus was "liberated" in the US during that war. Not one tent was pitched on a campus. No buildings ransacked and "taken over". Give me a break. This is about ISRAEL and Jewish people, not a war, not a gEnOcIdE and not about tHe cHiLdReN.
Both Hamas's actions and Israel's actions can be simultaneously bad. Just because Hamas is worse, that doesn't give us the go-ahead to allow Israel to abandon morality. That's how you enable a new Hamas to be created. Thank goodness people are aware of Israel's war crimes.
yeah, I agree with him. This is 100% is not what you said, but HOW you said it situation. If you want to protest. Go for it there are peaceful and legitimately legal ways to do so. You want to disturb the peace, and create potentially violent situations, then you can go fuck yourselves. 🤷🏽♂️
The US foreign policy has always supported Israel even in its current apartheid genocidal state. If people vote against Biden for continuing to support a major US ally enjoy more Trump years part 2. I doubt his administration will support public protests of any kind.
Every Biden admin statement on these protests have been critical. Every statement has highlighted violence or accused them of antisemitism. In no way has this admin supported the protests beyond the heavily asterisked "we support peaceful protests" that has no specifics.