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Exactly. This is how Nixon got elected and this is how Trump gets elected.
Same as it ever was.
“The backlash against the left was a key part of the 1968 presidential race. Richard Nixon famously ran a campaign on “law and order”
[https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/05/02/why-campus-chaos-should-give-democrats-ptsd-00155537](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/05/02/why-campus-chaos-should-give-democrats-ptsd-00155537)
Didn't someone campaign on the need to rebalance the "Supreme" Court? And what is the DNC doing about Thomas' open and proven crimes and corruption??
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-promises-commission-on-overhauling-supreme-court/2020/10/22/4465ead6-121d-11eb-ba42-ec6a580836ed_story.html
The DNC is the fundraising and planning committee for the Democratic Party. They have no more ability to do anything about Thomas' corruption than Pizza Hut does.
Biden never campaigned on that, no. He promised to form a bipartisan commission to look at reforms, which he did. The commission’s (very moderate) recommendations ended up DOA when the GOP took control of the House.
I asked for my steak to be medium rare and this is clearly well done! I demand that you take this steak back right now and bring me a giant bowl of shit instead! If you won't make my steak EXACTLY how I want, I will just eat this shit all day, every day and that will show you. Look how principled I am! LOOK AT ME!!!!
Most of the people who will be choosing Trump over Biden are white college kids— they won’t be affected in the slightest by a white supremacist regime taking over.
No, they will be. That was a reasonable thing to think in 2016, but after Trump fucked the COVID respose, ran up the debt and generally trashed things, it should be clear they suffer too.
Trump is bad for everyone. Some people suffer more to be sure, but he is bad for everyone.
That’s not true at all. College educated whites break heavily democrat.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/biden-trump-and-the-4-categories-of-white-votes/
Edit: also young people 18-29 make up an extremely small portion of the overall voters in the general election. And it’s been pretty flat last two elections. I wouldn’t expect the 1000th conflict in Israel and Palestine to impact the election by any meaningful margin in the swing states.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/
They will be affected but they are too stupid to see it. Women's rights will quickly degrade even more than they have, their parents' social security and Medicare will be in immediate danger, environmental protections that have taken decades to put into place will be destroyed, unions will be gutted, climate change will get worse, income disparity will grow, the economy will decline as we shut off immigration. Total shitshow.
It is beyond me how college students, who are supposed to be able to read and think, do not see this. They are entitled brats who want attention and think it can't happen to them. It can and will.
Almost all of those things you mentioned are foregone conclusions in the minds of a lot of the Gen Z crowd— regardless of who gets into power.
SS and Medicare? Biden voted to destroy those programs when he was a senator, and I am a millennial and even I grew up hearing about how Medicare and Social Security won’t be around when I retire— Gen Z already doesn’t believe these programs will be around for them and they kind of hate older generations so the fact their parents will be fucked doesn’t matter to them.
Environmental effects and Climate Change? We’ve already passed the point of no return on climate change— https://press.un.org/en/2022/sgsm21173.doc.htm —Gen Z fully understands this world will be fucked up entirely without anyway to change it.
Income disparity? The growth in income disparity hasn’t stopped since Reagan became president, and has grown tremendously under Biden. Why would Gen Z care about something that neither party is actually going to stop?
Immigration and the economy? More and more Americans , both democrats and Republicans, favor a mass deportation of illegal immigrants due to them allegedly depreciating wages in the trades and other manual labor jobs.
—-
Gen Z is entitled, and obviously Biden is better than Trump, but let’s be honest here: the Gen Z crowd is justifiably jaded about the whole deal.
I always thought SS and Medicare would get gutted before I could get there (and here we are), I certainly wouldn't vote leaning into that direction. Same with climate, rights, unions, drug costs, etc.
Biden today is greatly improved from his early years and has done much, much more than I could have hoped for while president. What the younger voters lack is the understanding of how much worse it will be for everyone if Trump gets back in. They are as short-sighted and as propaganda ridden as their Maga counterparts.
That is what I have noticed - it's starting to remind me of the way Magas think. They have a simplistic narrative they believe in and are unable to see the implications and consequences, or to question the narrative.
If Gen Z wants a different result they need to participate more, not less. There are enough Gen zers and millennials to dictate government for the next 40 years *if they would only show up and vote.*
Exactly. The local elections are more important than the federal ones. Last city council vote in Tampa Florida had a 10% voter turnout. Then people wonder why the city is going to hell.
They are participating more. They are telling you months in advance that they won’t vote for Joe, so put up someone else. They’re telling you they will vote third party, knowing full well what a Trump presidency means. How else should they participate? Donate all the money they don’t have? Use the connections to business leaders they don’t have to leverage politicians? This is what participation looks like when you don’t have access to money or power. It’s messy, ugly, and has lots of bad side effects.
I get where you're coming from, and the issues you’re pointing out are definitely big ones. But saying things like 'this world will be messed up entirely without any way to change it' feels a bit like throwing in the towel too early, doesn’t it? History is full of examples of people turning things around when it seemed impossible.
Take climate change—it’s a huge problem, but we’re also seeing incredible strides in renewable energy and sustainability efforts worldwide. Young people are pushing for change, influencing policies and starting conversations that weren’t happening a decade ago.
And about Social Security, Medicare, and income disparity—yes, these are tough issues, but they’re not unsolvable. Plus, ideas like universal basic income are starting to get more attention.
The point is, every generation faces its challenges, and while it’s easy to feel like giving up, what we really need to do is keep pushing. Gen Z has incredible technology and passion—imagine what can happen if that’s channeled into creating solutions rather than accepting defeat.
So let’s not settle for saying it’s all going downhill. Let’s be the ones to start turning things around. *We’ve done it before, and with the right drive and innovation, we can do it again.*
The youth inherently lacks the life experience that brings foresight. They also have less to compare today’s situation with. Older adults remember worse times, and better times and we saw how they each came about. The young only know today.
If I may provide another reason, I say this.
Younger people are also disillusioned with life going forward. They feel as if the world they are going to inherit is screwed. I’ve asked several people (range of 16- mid 20s) about it and the one thing I keep hearing is “Older people ruined our world and expect us to fix it for them!? No! Why should I have to fix something I didn’t break?”
“It’s not our fault that they are failures and losers.”
They don’t have to choose Trump over Biden for Trump to win. They just have to turn their noses up in disgust and not show up. We’re looking at a repeat of 2016 and it’s entirely self-inflicted on Biden’s part.
It's not a Karen-grade complaint to ask one's government not to be complicit in genocide.
Sure, some might think that way - it's just a bunch of brown foreign people right? So the mass killing is comparable to how your steak is prepared at a restaurant?
If the Trump administration was in power, people would be protesting the situation as well as well. Should they not protest because a Democrat is in office?
But it is also how the neolibs (and leftist cohorts) ousted the New Dealers.
Without the 68' DNC riot there would have never been a McGovern-Fraser Commission.
Since Obama, the leftist-cohorts have been trying to rise and gain a permanent seat at the 'big table' vs being the 'plus one' brought occasionally by the neolibs.
If push comes to shove the moderates will choose maga over leftist.
I was with you right up until your last sentence. The dem establishment is the moderates. They would never go MAGA.
Consider Republican Saint Ronald Reagan: he raised taxes, granted amnesty to immigrants, and hated Russia. He would be vilified as “far left” today. And he’s ideologically about where moderates are.
Stupid privileged leftists falling for blatant propaganda to turn on the only party that is going to get them anything if what they want, while the people they CLAIM to support and stand for are harmed by their poor decisions and need to appear “progressive” over actually fighting for progress.
I have no patience for these idiots.
How would you recommend getting the political party that's most closely aligned with their beliefs to be more aligned with those beliefs? It seems like using political leverage is the way to get there.
I don't think the time is now, I don't know when the time is, but at some point, center-right establishment dems are going to call young progressives' bluff, and they're going to have to leave dems out to dry to prove they really do have political leverage and need to be represented.
Right now, it's mostly a parade of milquetoast, "safe" candidates who aren't really progressive at all, but they know young liberals will vote for them because the other option is worse. At some point, if they want true progressives in charge, they'll have to flex that leverage and deal with a few years of shit elected officials to get better candidates in the future. "The other guy is worse" can only win so many campaigns.
This is the way it's always gone. It's just that dems have the strongest claim they've ever had to, "Well, the other guy will end American democracy," so it's not worth it right now to follow through. For the most part, they'll vote Biden when the time comes. But they only really have leverage if leadership thinks they might not.
>How would you recommend getting the political party most closely aligned with their beliefs to be more aligned with those beliefs?
That, my friend, IS ACTUALLY a good question, and you won’t like the answer but here’s the truth:
You need to work hard at a local level to elect people that hold your beliefs. Start at the state level because those people will become your next national figures. As you do that, you have to normalize the way you think with others to build support and incentive for existing and new politicians to agree in votes.
You elect more progressives will take a lot of persistent local work convincing people to vote for them to build the momentum and get them to win primaries, and then to further counter the right wing propaganda machine that will try to paint them as out of touch extremists.
It will take understanding that you can’t get everything you want immediately and sometimes candidates will need to be more moderate than you in order to win the general election; because getting more seats in CONGRESS is what matters the most.
Then and only THEN will you see progress.
You also have to accept that the majority of democratic voters are more moderate than you. You have to convince them at a local level and it’s slow work. “we’re not gonna show up because a moderate win the primary” is an immature mentality.
Pressuring a president that largely agrees with you and risking their re-election vs an opponent that is fundamentally opposed to your viewpoint and will tear down everything you care about is fundamentally foolish and it’s a privileged viewpoint.
I sincerely doubt anyone who is in a state where they may not have abortion access and have to flee the state for health care or risk being arrested is going to agree with “stop all aid to Israel or we elect Trump”.
It’s not that I don’t care about the Palestinians; I’m just prioritizing the greatest good for them and everyone else here. You have to WIN with the best allies you can find. Winning the election IS the priority.
As for Biden in Israel? If you don’t get all your news from TikTok or super smug leftie outlets like Majority Report or The Young Turks, you see the pattern of the admin actively working on a peaceful solution. Diplomacy and foreign policy doesn’t move quickly though. Immediate changes of course are not something that will ever happen. Let them cook.
I really don’t think so. Most of these people are ultra progressives who historically don’t even vote. If they did we would have had president Bernie Sanders finishing out his second term right now.
I don't think the protests will be anything like 1968. This isn't the Vietnam War where college-aged kids were being drafted. More people will be participating on social media than in person.
It’s a different situation as well.
We’re unique in that our adversaries don’t change their executive leadership every four years.
There are an awful lot of countries and terrorist groups interested in causing unrest during this process for us.
Exactly but it feels like a good time to remember that Humphrey did eventually come around to embrace the anti war movement and nearly saved his campaign. Unfortunately it was too little to late and at the moment the modern Dem party seems determined to do the exact same thing.
The left social-democrat mayor of Chicago won’t do much unlike 1968’s Daley, but [first] the local POC community may not support the demonstrators as they just want more domestic programs.
Then [second] is Chicago is close to “New Dixie”. Protesters will draw armed counterprotestors if no massive police presence as the presence of Muslims with communist-types is an irresistible lure for the far-right.
They care *so* much about Palestine they want to elect the guy who decided that settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem weren't illegal. The same guy that supports single-state solutions and killed UNRWA funding? Yes the same guy.
Yup. I get protesting against Biden to try and make a change, but it is truly mind boggling that they aren’t protesting even harder against “Israel, finish the job” Trump and republicans.
Dozens of countries have been trying to solve the conflict and put pressure on Israel and Palestine for decades. I'm old enough to remember when Bill Clinton was hosting negotiations and it failed due to violence.
What exactly is Biden supposed to do when Hamas doesn't want a ceasefire or surrender, Netanyahu is a corrupt maniac, Israel is constantly being attacked from all directions by proxy groups, and countries like Iran and Russia are inflaming the situation for their own benefit?
People protesting may have their heart in a good place, but it's a very complicated issue with no easy answers. Biden is doing more for Palestine than any other world leader currently, even though Palestinians are still suffering. Continuing to peacefully pressure Biden to do more is great, but allowing Trump to win would be severely punishing to Palestinians, Ukraine, and America.
Anything Biden can do **now** can be reversed after Trump win and Bibi know Biden would lose election if he agree to the demands of these Pro-palestine protesters. With Biden's way of handling this right now, Bibi has no way to finish off the Palestinian for good. But if Biden cave to protesters and consequently lose election, Trump would not only allow but also send US troops to help him erasing Palestine off the Earth. Israel by themselves is superior to Palestine in every aspects, they has the capacity to hold out without US aid for a few months until Trump gain control and they got even better aids than now to make up for it. If anything, Bibi is hoping Biden would cave so he can win the long game.
Left-wings protests will not change Trump’s position on Israel/Palestine; it might change Biden’s. Protesting at the DNC is the strategically correct move here.
They might change Biden’s position, and I appreciate that, but they might also get Trump elected which is multiple orders of magnitude worse for Gaza. So my position is try and get Biden to change policy, but also make sure you demonstrate that Trump is much much worse.
Why does Biden himself get a pass, here? If his position on the conflict is liable to stir up a level of protest and dissent that will imperial his electoral chances, then perhaps some of the onus should be put on *him* to change course rather than the people who are justifiably angry about the ongoing genocide being perpetuated with their tax dollars.
Biden and his admin are actively working on creating a lasting peace, a two state solution with a regional security force between them that will protect the civilians in both ends.
You may not care for how they’re doing it, but they are working on a diplomatic full solution to the problem in the region.
Trump’s stance is to tell Bibi to finish the job. If you can’t see the difference, you’re not being serious or genuine, and are probably engaging in bad faith.
Lot of people also mistakenly think that refusing to vote for anyone but the most leftist candidates will somehow “teach the DNC” to I dunno. Support more leftist candidates?
Like it still doesn’t come down to the voters, who are going to be less inclined to support your candidates if you sabotage the cause
Electing Biden doesn't mean he is getting a "pass" here. He will be the best result for Gaza in terms of election outcomes. Protests will continue under Biden, Trump will not care about protests against him when he is President.
Protest all you want, but also go out and vote for the guy who actually pushes back against Israel and wants an independent Palestinian state. Otherwise you're just punishing Palestinians even more. (***And*** punishing Ukrainians ***and*** Americans)
The issue is risk vs. reward. Protests *might* change President Biden's policies, but frankly it's incredibly unlikely he will do a 180. Protests *might* also get Trump elected, which is an order of magnitude worse for both the U.S. **and** Palestinians.
Personally I don't think the likelihood of either is excessive, unless they get violently out of hand like the 1968 convention protests, but it's disingenuous to act like there is no risk to consider....*if* peace really is one's goal.
And as others have already mentioned, it's strange that the closest person to an ally the protesters have is the one they are protesting, and not the one almost promising genocide.
>And as others have already mentioned, it's strange that the closest person to an ally the protesters have is the one they are protesting, and not the one almost promising genocide.
Not really. You're way more likely to effectively exert leverage over someone who needs your votes than someone who doesn't.
Unreasonable, because the protests outside the DNC will definitely lure shithead counter protestors to create havoc again, ala UCLA.
Peacefully protesting continuously across the nation, not one isolated location, is the best bet with the most potential for a positive outcome from Biden.
Why do protesters who want to throw all domestic policy away get a free pass? There’s climate policy too, will we also be giving away free passes for mass extinction?
If he gets a pass, which hes not, hes getting it because the ONLY alternative (whether you like it or not) is so many magnitudes worse that you have to "give him a pass."
Whats the alternative? Yay I not only fucked the thing I was protesting about, but a significant number of other things I care about, but at least I held their feet to the fire!
Your award for the moral highground will look great on your bombed out homes mantle. Assuming you had a home before it got bombed out.
Again, the objective is to pressure the Biden administration to get it to change its actual positions — not to win some sort of symbolic moral high ground. The point about not giving him a pass is recognizing that he also has agency, here instead of acting like the only people with a choice to make are the protesters. If Biden really doesn't want Trump to win, then maybe *he* should consider making more serious concessions. Maybe the rest of the party's "centrists" should consider whether or not it's worth alternating an apparently crucial part of their coalition to support an explicit ethnostate with a far right wing nationalist government actively committing widespread atrocities.
If Biden loses the blane lands squarely on *his* shoulders — along with all the people who helped push him into winning the nomination in the first place. There are lots and lots of things he could do to stop this.
Do you think Iran will stop then?
When provoking Israel works so well, do you think the violence will end there?
When we turn our back on the region, do you think we won’t be blamed for the atrocities that follow? Do you think that we stay safe that way?
Depends on the protest. I think screaming Genocide Joe, and demanding he stop a war the US is on neither side of might not work.
But hey, reaching out to people is only for libs right?
Hm I did word that badly. I should have said the US is not a combatant. It's not like Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. We can't just grab our troops and go home here, because it's not our troops fighting.
Where were the protests against Trump for his support of the Saudis’ war in Yemen? Over 300,000 dead there, and Trump even took direct military action, killing dozens of children.
There is exactly one historical precedent for this action, and it led to the election of Nixon. We are absolutely correct to assume that this is what these protests will accomplish a la Trump.
I just hope every protester knows that they are taking on the responsibility for whatever happens in Ukraine should Biden lose.
It will not change Biden’s position.
This is a regional proxy war with Iran, and the jockeying for position among the rest of the nations in the Middle East.
Americans have already been killed.
There is nothing strategic about protesting against the DNC unless you think (incorrectly) that this war is about Palestinians at all.
I think the people who say they won’t vote for Biden just because of his policy on Palestine aren’t being sincere. They are either republicans looking to try to criticize Biden any way they can, or actual bad actors working on behalf of foreign governments.
The lesson of 1968 isn’t “the left should stop caring about war crimes” the lesson is “Democrats hoping to win elections shouldn’t alienate their base by doing war crimes.” If Biden loses, it’s because he was too dumb and old to read the tea leaves, not because people of conscience couldn’t hold their nose and vote for his idiotic genocidal policies.
I’ll be keeping the promises I made to my LGBTQ friends, my niece, nephews and women to protect their rights to bodily autonomy this November. I won’t be turning my back on them.
Why are they only protesting democrats, when republicans control the house and are significantly more pro Israel?
Why are so many protestors not even college students?
I don't want to speak for all of them but Dems are possibly persuadable and have the capacity to do the right thing whereas Republicans never ever will
I mean...aren't they also protesting them?
What makes you think they're not also protesting them? They'll say Biden's name because he is the president...you know...the guy in charge, but they are protesting all politicians here.
Why is the RNC not bracing for protest? Because these people have no plan to protest again republicans. Democrats are expected to be perfect and republicans have no expectations at all.
Yes, because the Democrats aren't obvious fascists. This is like asking why they don't protest against Russia. Why would you bother protesting someone who gives 0 fucks about what you think and isn't going to change their mind?
Trump isn't in office at the moment. Right now the occupant of the White House is a Democrat.
Tens of thousands of dead civilians is pretty serious. It's serious when it is Ukrainians being killed by Russia, it's serious when it is Palestinians being killed with US weapons.
It's sad for me to see so many of my left leaning friends say they aren't going to support the Democrats against Trump. Like they're punishing Biden. No, we get punished.
The entire world will be punished if Trump wins. These leftists don't even care about how Trump will make climate change worse. They're willing to throw the entire planet under the bus to support a bunch of terrorists and Islamic fundamentalists who hate the left.
It’s unfortunate. If anyone protests it should be against trump. The existential threat of democracy is the most important thing to focus on. If you want to protest Gaza do it at the Republican convention. Trust me - their policies are worse.
The Democrats are the ones, in theory, who *should* change their mind about supporting a genocide based on all of their other rhetoric. Protesting Trump - who isn’t even in power - doesn’t make sense. The ball is in Biden’s court. He and the DNC should be protested every single day until they change course. Whether or not those protesting should still vote for him in November is a different conversation, but he’s losing more voters by the day and doesn’t seem to be very interested in getting them back.
Change their mind on what? Biden is the only person on the planet that's been able to get Hamas and Israel to talk and mediate a temporary cease fire. He's currently negotiating another cease fire. Peace doesn't happen without a cease fire.
There is not genocide; only a hundreds of years old war that you are suddenly caring about now. Biden is never going to alienate the huge blue pro-Israel voter bloc to please you.
And there are limits to what being allies means. It isn't a free-for-all, there's a point where enough is enough and you have to put your foot down.
Rampant war crimes seems to be a good place to draw a line.
And so far he has as the only person that's been able to negotiate a cease fire (and they're in talks for another one now), preventing Bibi from moving on Rafah (so far), and being the only country or organization to successfully get aid in to Palestine, obviously it's thwarted at times but it exists because US has been able to keep land routes in from other countries due to negotiations and sea port routes open due to our navy, and convincing Israel to back off on occasion about attacking areas with not enough intel as to who they are attacking - and no it's not perfect, nothing ever is in war, but none of that would exist without the US' influence in a place we don't have nearly as much influence as everyone seems to think.
"Yeah Biden sucks, but we can push him left"
"Ok, we will push him leftward by protesting unrestricted weapon sales to Israel"
"***NO***"
can we actually push him left, or was that all just bullshit?
It was always bullshit and has been for 40+ years in the democratic party. But the neolibs REALLY hate it when you point that out. They've always been conservatives.
Biden’s actions to this point already distinguish him from Trump. People have a right to make this their pet issue and vote accordingly. The rest of us will have a right to hold them accountable should Trump win and our (and their) vulnerable neighbors are no longer safe in the country.
Do these protesters plan to show up at the RNC also? I generally hate whataboutisms, but seriously ppl need to understand that it is essentially down to two candidates (DT vs JB). Yes, the protests votes only benefit the opposition and they silently hope you disrupt the DNC. I understand the frustration, but feel like there is so many bad actors at play. How is a culture and religious war spanning 70+ years supposed to just suddenly vanish? Will you guys be able to protest under a Trump regime?
I don't think they care. Got banned from a sub for pointing that out and the reason was it violated their "lesser of two evils" rule.
That's the problem with people, they want to do what feels good rather than what does actual good.
They are being misled by foreign agents. Russia, China and Iran want to sabotage Biden's presidency because his presidency is one of the major obstacles standing in the way of Russian, Chinese and Iranian imperialism.
That's how it works. They are raising their voices to the people who are supposed to be representing them. That's how protesting and democracy is supposed to work. That how it happened in the 60s and in the 2000s.
Republicans are actively co-opting images from these protests and feeding them into socials and every other possible outlet. When will we learn that’s NOT how it works now. They WANT us to do this! Wake up!
I agree. This is kindling for the MAGAs. I live in rural NC and I am hearing and seeing deep seated anger like never before. There are known militias here that are LOOKING for any excuse to come out. Kyle Rittenhouse is just a drop in the bucket.
What would make the analogy complete would be finding out that Trump was working with Bibi to avoid a cease fire just to keep things going here while promising massive aid and an even freer hand for Israel. We know now that Nixon was negotiating illegally behind the scenes with the South Vietnamese officials to avoid any semblance of a cease fire with the Viet Cong before the November ‘68 elections here…
Take a good look. The people who are going to get Trump elected president again.
Who will proceed to adopt a “kill them all” stance on Palestine.
They don’t care about the Palestinian people. They just want to see Joe Biden lose. And haven’t thought about what happens after that.
I’d like to remind people here that it’s the job of the political candidate to earn the support of their voters, not for voters to support their political candidate no matter what. I’d think that’s especially relevant to genocide. I’ll still be voting for Biden but saying it’s the left’s fault if Biden loses is preposterous. He is perfectly capable of losing himself, which he appears to be doing now.
These comments complaining these protests would cause Biden losing to Trump are batshit crazy. If Biden is going to lose to Trump over the issue then Biden should act on them! Which is the point of the protest!
Yeah. This sub has lost it's mind. They are so afraid of Trump that democratic voters are being told they are not allowed to make their displeasure known to the people who are supposed to represent them.
it amazes me whenever i meet left-liberals who don't plan to vote biden because of gaza. yes, we should use our significant leverage to reign in Netanyahu (and Israel, in general) more and it seems like the admin is trying to behind the scenes e.g. Raffah, though not enough given we're still giving them aid, but domestic politics plays a factor with jewish voters.
but, like, trump would only be worse in terms unequivocal support for Israel's bullshit and then like 100x worse on every other policy question. the dude is literally an open fascist who wants to end American democracy. lol
single policy / conscience voting is so incredibly dumb and naive. left liberalism is built on progress both big and small as well as minimizing backsliding by right wing forces. it sucks that we only have two meaningful choices but abstaining from voting won't change that either. advocating for electoral reform and getting a sweeping blue wave are needed for that.
The whole point of protesting Biden and the DNC is to show Biden how he can get them to vote for him. It is the candidate's and party's job to earn votes. They're not protesting Trump because they don't want to support him. They want to vote for Biden but he's not giving them enough reason to.
If Biden loses it will only be because he didn't do enough to get the necessary votes.
And maybe, just maybe, instead of insulting and belittling them at every point, we should try to hear where they're coming from so we don't drive them further away.
The vast majority of Americans support Israel, so if Biden wants more votes, he needs to continue supporting Israel, and be even more supportive to get some of those Haley voters who don't want Trump.
[Harvard/Harris Poll April 2024 (PDF)](https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HHP_Apr2024_KeyResults.pdf)
They can support Israel, but not how Biden has handled the conflict.
[Overall, last month's survey saw Biden's approval rating on Israel slump from plus 6 in December to –9 points. This was a result of 39 percent disapproving and only 30 percent approving. Among them, more than a fifth (22 percent) strongly disapproved.](https://www.newsweek.com/israel-joe-biden-gaza-polling-approval-rating-fall-1886966#:~:text=Overall%2C%20last%20month's%20survey%20saw,(22%20percent)%20strongly%20disapproved.)
Well, we could reconsider our disastrous support for an ongoing genocide in the Middle East..
EDIT: Someone left a drive-by comment and then immediately blocked me so I couldn't respond. And then the brigade shows up. Pretty much speaks for itself.
Okay, so Biden's team is currrently pushing hard in negotiations for a ceasefire. Talks were ended earlier this week, but the Saudi - American team have opened them up again. They have warned Bibi from invading Raffah, and launched an unprecedented aid initiative towards Gaza. What should they do? Send a peacekeeping force?
The voters in this case are demonstratably out of touch with reality though.
In every instance, Biden has used about as much pressure as he can, without Israel just shutting him out, to try and limit their responses to gazan and Iran. He defied Israeli blockades to get food air dropped into Gaza. He has now directed the US military to effectively build a new port to get aid into Gaza.
Trump, by comparison has demanded that Netenyahu should "finish the job" while his son in law openly fantasises about a beach-front property in Gaza. This is the same guy that purposefully, and knowingly, enflamed tensions and sparked riots that got a lot of Gazans killed, all while destabilising the ME and antagonising Iran too.
For some reason, though, these idiot voters are angry at Biden for enabling genocide and are acting in a way that could get an actual genocidal maniac into power.
It's our election system that is effectively designed to devolve into a 2-party system. If we switched to a ranked choice voting or some other system, 3rd party candidates might become viable.
As it is, the 2 parties have a stranglehold on our elections.
They should cancel it . The protests at Hillary’s costs her the election . No good can come from this . I’m sure the gop is organizing genocidal joe chants right now
They won't cancel the riot it because their intention is to sabotage Biden's campaign on behalf of Russia, Iran and China, their sponsors. They are being led by foreign agents and their goal is to get Trump elected as a way to cripple the US.
Oh. In that case, I disagree with that idea. Hillary lost because she ran a bad campaign and Trump had Russia and the right wing disinformation machine at his disposal. I don't think anyone cared about the protests at the convention or even remembered them on election day. Cancelling the DNC would be a show of weakness, and the Dems need to look strong and stand by their policies and what they believe in.
Being against the genocide of an entire population shouldn’t need to have an asterisk next to it because you don’t know every single second of detail is a little bit disingenuous don’t you think?
These people are all bots, just look at the usernames it’s the same people echoing the exact same talking point about “protest = foreign agent = they’re evil!” Just looks like they are trying to divide people further, intentionally.
They sound exactly like fox news addicts too. People are literally bitching about blue hair
Edit: I'm also old enough to remember when it was right wingers saying that anti-war protests were organized by Iran
I think this a good protest, we should hold the DNCs feet to the fire. HOWEVER, once November comes, we all need to vote for Biden. There's no real choice.
Biden is doing the right thing by standing with Israel. Not only is it the right thing to do because Israel is the defending nation and our ally, but it's also what the vast majority of Americans want according to the latest polls:
[Harvard/Harris Poll April 2024 (PDF)](https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HHP_Apr2024_KeyResults.pdf)
Supporting Israel is how he gets more votes.
Jfc when people just shrug off killing thousands of children as a good thing...also, the polls make shit okay,! (Oh but those kids are mostly Muslims, so who cares? It makes our invasion of Iraq and civilian drone strikes okay too!)
I changed my voter card to Democrat just so I can vote in primaries but reading shit like this makes my skin crawl enough to want to change it back to Independent.
Hamas is guilty of murdering those children by using them as human shields and starting a war against Israel. You wrongly attribute blame to Israel when it is Hamas who caused all of this. Go ahead and register as an independent. The Democratic party doesn't need people like you who support Islamic fundamentalism, terrorism and rape.
It's 1968 all over again. The Chicago Police Riot at the Democratic convention did not end well.
Here's hoping both the demonstrators and the cops have learned something since then, but we all know they haven't.
If someone’s gotta learn from 1968. It’s the fucking police. Trial materials of the Chicago 7 clearly indicated that the police were trying the shut the protests down. They were responsible for the violence. But I doubt American police has learned much.
When will the DNC stop attacking the left? They bully you into going along and then treat you like garbage. But hey, at least we are total fascists. “Vote blue no matter who!” 🤮
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Exactly. This is how Nixon got elected and this is how Trump gets elected. Same as it ever was. “The backlash against the left was a key part of the 1968 presidential race. Richard Nixon famously ran a campaign on “law and order” [https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/05/02/why-campus-chaos-should-give-democrats-ptsd-00155537](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/05/02/why-campus-chaos-should-give-democrats-ptsd-00155537)
LBJ decided not to run for re-election though. That’s what threw that convention into disarray.
This is how democracy dies.
Democracy dies in the supreme court
Didn't someone campaign on the need to rebalance the "Supreme" Court? And what is the DNC doing about Thomas' open and proven crimes and corruption?? https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-promises-commission-on-overhauling-supreme-court/2020/10/22/4465ead6-121d-11eb-ba42-ec6a580836ed_story.html
The DNC is the fundraising and planning committee for the Democratic Party. They have no more ability to do anything about Thomas' corruption than Pizza Hut does.
Biden never campaigned on that, no. He promised to form a bipartisan commission to look at reforms, which he did. The commission’s (very moderate) recommendations ended up DOA when the GOP took control of the House.
You can almost hear it the protester chant: this-is-how-dem-oc-racy-un-a-lives!
I asked for my steak to be medium rare and this is clearly well done! I demand that you take this steak back right now and bring me a giant bowl of shit instead! If you won't make my steak EXACTLY how I want, I will just eat this shit all day, every day and that will show you. Look how principled I am! LOOK AT ME!!!!
And then there is the follow up. Oh no! I have no rights!! How did this happen?!?!
Checks TikTok for scapegoat talking point…
Most of the people who will be choosing Trump over Biden are white college kids— they won’t be affected in the slightest by a white supremacist regime taking over.
No, they will be. That was a reasonable thing to think in 2016, but after Trump fucked the COVID respose, ran up the debt and generally trashed things, it should be clear they suffer too. Trump is bad for everyone. Some people suffer more to be sure, but he is bad for everyone.
That’s not true at all. College educated whites break heavily democrat. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/biden-trump-and-the-4-categories-of-white-votes/ Edit: also young people 18-29 make up an extremely small portion of the overall voters in the general election. And it’s been pretty flat last two elections. I wouldn’t expect the 1000th conflict in Israel and Palestine to impact the election by any meaningful margin in the swing states. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/
It definitely can the Muslim voting block in Midwestern swing states is key for Biden.
No shit. But the ones planning on sitting out the election are the Democrats. College Republicans are going to vote for Trump directly
Yeah, white women 30+ vote for Republicans at about a 10 point clip, but every one on Reddit thinks that XX chromosomes = liberal politics.
They will be affected but they are too stupid to see it. Women's rights will quickly degrade even more than they have, their parents' social security and Medicare will be in immediate danger, environmental protections that have taken decades to put into place will be destroyed, unions will be gutted, climate change will get worse, income disparity will grow, the economy will decline as we shut off immigration. Total shitshow. It is beyond me how college students, who are supposed to be able to read and think, do not see this. They are entitled brats who want attention and think it can't happen to them. It can and will.
Almost all of those things you mentioned are foregone conclusions in the minds of a lot of the Gen Z crowd— regardless of who gets into power. SS and Medicare? Biden voted to destroy those programs when he was a senator, and I am a millennial and even I grew up hearing about how Medicare and Social Security won’t be around when I retire— Gen Z already doesn’t believe these programs will be around for them and they kind of hate older generations so the fact their parents will be fucked doesn’t matter to them. Environmental effects and Climate Change? We’ve already passed the point of no return on climate change— https://press.un.org/en/2022/sgsm21173.doc.htm —Gen Z fully understands this world will be fucked up entirely without anyway to change it. Income disparity? The growth in income disparity hasn’t stopped since Reagan became president, and has grown tremendously under Biden. Why would Gen Z care about something that neither party is actually going to stop? Immigration and the economy? More and more Americans , both democrats and Republicans, favor a mass deportation of illegal immigrants due to them allegedly depreciating wages in the trades and other manual labor jobs. —- Gen Z is entitled, and obviously Biden is better than Trump, but let’s be honest here: the Gen Z crowd is justifiably jaded about the whole deal.
I always thought SS and Medicare would get gutted before I could get there (and here we are), I certainly wouldn't vote leaning into that direction. Same with climate, rights, unions, drug costs, etc. Biden today is greatly improved from his early years and has done much, much more than I could have hoped for while president. What the younger voters lack is the understanding of how much worse it will be for everyone if Trump gets back in. They are as short-sighted and as propaganda ridden as their Maga counterparts.
That is what I have noticed - it's starting to remind me of the way Magas think. They have a simplistic narrative they believe in and are unable to see the implications and consequences, or to question the narrative.
If Gen Z wants a different result they need to participate more, not less. There are enough Gen zers and millennials to dictate government for the next 40 years *if they would only show up and vote.*
Exactly. The local elections are more important than the federal ones. Last city council vote in Tampa Florida had a 10% voter turnout. Then people wonder why the city is going to hell.
They are participating more. They are telling you months in advance that they won’t vote for Joe, so put up someone else. They’re telling you they will vote third party, knowing full well what a Trump presidency means. How else should they participate? Donate all the money they don’t have? Use the connections to business leaders they don’t have to leverage politicians? This is what participation looks like when you don’t have access to money or power. It’s messy, ugly, and has lots of bad side effects.
I get where you're coming from, and the issues you’re pointing out are definitely big ones. But saying things like 'this world will be messed up entirely without any way to change it' feels a bit like throwing in the towel too early, doesn’t it? History is full of examples of people turning things around when it seemed impossible. Take climate change—it’s a huge problem, but we’re also seeing incredible strides in renewable energy and sustainability efforts worldwide. Young people are pushing for change, influencing policies and starting conversations that weren’t happening a decade ago. And about Social Security, Medicare, and income disparity—yes, these are tough issues, but they’re not unsolvable. Plus, ideas like universal basic income are starting to get more attention. The point is, every generation faces its challenges, and while it’s easy to feel like giving up, what we really need to do is keep pushing. Gen Z has incredible technology and passion—imagine what can happen if that’s channeled into creating solutions rather than accepting defeat. So let’s not settle for saying it’s all going downhill. Let’s be the ones to start turning things around. *We’ve done it before, and with the right drive and innovation, we can do it again.*
The youth inherently lacks the life experience that brings foresight. They also have less to compare today’s situation with. Older adults remember worse times, and better times and we saw how they each came about. The young only know today.
If I may provide another reason, I say this. Younger people are also disillusioned with life going forward. They feel as if the world they are going to inherit is screwed. I’ve asked several people (range of 16- mid 20s) about it and the one thing I keep hearing is “Older people ruined our world and expect us to fix it for them!? No! Why should I have to fix something I didn’t break?” “It’s not our fault that they are failures and losers.”
This is literally what every older generation says about younger generations since human history began.
I'm not saying any generation is right or wrong, just that they do view certain things differently based on each of their perspectives. Which they do.
They don’t have to choose Trump over Biden for Trump to win. They just have to turn their noses up in disgust and not show up. We’re looking at a repeat of 2016 and it’s entirely self-inflicted on Biden’s part.
Vote shaming doesn't work, no matter how pragmatic your arguments are!!! It's the candidates job to appeal to voters!
This cannot be upvoted enough
It's not a Karen-grade complaint to ask one's government not to be complicit in genocide. Sure, some might think that way - it's just a bunch of brown foreign people right? So the mass killing is comparable to how your steak is prepared at a restaurant? If the Trump administration was in power, people would be protesting the situation as well as well. Should they not protest because a Democrat is in office?
But it is also how the neolibs (and leftist cohorts) ousted the New Dealers. Without the 68' DNC riot there would have never been a McGovern-Fraser Commission. Since Obama, the leftist-cohorts have been trying to rise and gain a permanent seat at the 'big table' vs being the 'plus one' brought occasionally by the neolibs. If push comes to shove the moderates will choose maga over leftist.
I was with you right up until your last sentence. The dem establishment is the moderates. They would never go MAGA. Consider Republican Saint Ronald Reagan: he raised taxes, granted amnesty to immigrants, and hated Russia. He would be vilified as “far left” today. And he’s ideologically about where moderates are.
Idk how many moderates are anywhere close to Reagan on the economy.
My point is that Reagan is farther left than the modern gop by a lot.
Reagan / Nixon are also further left than mainstream democrats today. That's the problem.
Stupid privileged leftists falling for blatant propaganda to turn on the only party that is going to get them anything if what they want, while the people they CLAIM to support and stand for are harmed by their poor decisions and need to appear “progressive” over actually fighting for progress. I have no patience for these idiots.
How would you recommend getting the political party that's most closely aligned with their beliefs to be more aligned with those beliefs? It seems like using political leverage is the way to get there. I don't think the time is now, I don't know when the time is, but at some point, center-right establishment dems are going to call young progressives' bluff, and they're going to have to leave dems out to dry to prove they really do have political leverage and need to be represented. Right now, it's mostly a parade of milquetoast, "safe" candidates who aren't really progressive at all, but they know young liberals will vote for them because the other option is worse. At some point, if they want true progressives in charge, they'll have to flex that leverage and deal with a few years of shit elected officials to get better candidates in the future. "The other guy is worse" can only win so many campaigns. This is the way it's always gone. It's just that dems have the strongest claim they've ever had to, "Well, the other guy will end American democracy," so it's not worth it right now to follow through. For the most part, they'll vote Biden when the time comes. But they only really have leverage if leadership thinks they might not.
>How would you recommend getting the political party most closely aligned with their beliefs to be more aligned with those beliefs? That, my friend, IS ACTUALLY a good question, and you won’t like the answer but here’s the truth: You need to work hard at a local level to elect people that hold your beliefs. Start at the state level because those people will become your next national figures. As you do that, you have to normalize the way you think with others to build support and incentive for existing and new politicians to agree in votes. You elect more progressives will take a lot of persistent local work convincing people to vote for them to build the momentum and get them to win primaries, and then to further counter the right wing propaganda machine that will try to paint them as out of touch extremists. It will take understanding that you can’t get everything you want immediately and sometimes candidates will need to be more moderate than you in order to win the general election; because getting more seats in CONGRESS is what matters the most. Then and only THEN will you see progress. You also have to accept that the majority of democratic voters are more moderate than you. You have to convince them at a local level and it’s slow work. “we’re not gonna show up because a moderate win the primary” is an immature mentality. Pressuring a president that largely agrees with you and risking their re-election vs an opponent that is fundamentally opposed to your viewpoint and will tear down everything you care about is fundamentally foolish and it’s a privileged viewpoint. I sincerely doubt anyone who is in a state where they may not have abortion access and have to flee the state for health care or risk being arrested is going to agree with “stop all aid to Israel or we elect Trump”. It’s not that I don’t care about the Palestinians; I’m just prioritizing the greatest good for them and everyone else here. You have to WIN with the best allies you can find. Winning the election IS the priority. As for Biden in Israel? If you don’t get all your news from TikTok or super smug leftie outlets like Majority Report or The Young Turks, you see the pattern of the admin actively working on a peaceful solution. Diplomacy and foreign policy doesn’t move quickly though. Immediate changes of course are not something that will ever happen. Let them cook.
...Meidas Touch is as pro-Dem as it gets!
Probably is why we’ll eventually find out that Netanyahu let October 7th happen to help propel Trump back into office.
I really don’t think so. Most of these people are ultra progressives who historically don’t even vote. If they did we would have had president Bernie Sanders finishing out his second term right now.
I don't think the protests will be anything like 1968. This isn't the Vietnam War where college-aged kids were being drafted. More people will be participating on social media than in person.
It doesn’t take massive protests. ANY protest is run on Fox on repeat. They are already doing this and the campaign is building momentum accordingly.
If a voter is watching Fox news, Joe Biden has already lost that vote.
It's not just fox. ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, and the rest of the infotainment networks will be agitating for more unrest throughout the summer.
People watching Fox aren't considering Biden.
So when Biden comes out and says chill it down a little they won’t like that?
It’s a different situation as well. We’re unique in that our adversaries don’t change their executive leadership every four years. There are an awful lot of countries and terrorist groups interested in causing unrest during this process for us.
Digital Performa-testing.
It's easier to take the risks of protesting when it is your ass that is personally on the line.
Even without a Daley in the Mayor's office, I'm sure we'll be seeing plenty of rioting Chicago cops and Illinois state troopers.
No one wants a riot more than cops in riot gear!
Especially when their targets are leftists! They can use as much violence as they want without fear of reprisal!
Yea, in my experience they are not neutral participants.
Exactly but it feels like a good time to remember that Humphrey did eventually come around to embrace the anti war movement and nearly saved his campaign. Unfortunately it was too little to late and at the moment the modern Dem party seems determined to do the exact same thing.
The left social-democrat mayor of Chicago won’t do much unlike 1968’s Daley, but [first] the local POC community may not support the demonstrators as they just want more domestic programs. Then [second] is Chicago is close to “New Dixie”. Protesters will draw armed counterprotestors if no massive police presence as the presence of Muslims with communist-types is an irresistible lure for the far-right.
It worked so well then. I'm sure it will work as well this time.
They care *so* much about Palestine they want to elect the guy who decided that settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem weren't illegal. The same guy that supports single-state solutions and killed UNRWA funding? Yes the same guy.
The guy who told Netanyahu to "finish the job."
Who's son in law is discussing beach side property investments in Gaza!
Yup. I get protesting against Biden to try and make a change, but it is truly mind boggling that they aren’t protesting even harder against “Israel, finish the job” Trump and republicans.
Because Biden is the one that can do something **now**?
Dozens of countries have been trying to solve the conflict and put pressure on Israel and Palestine for decades. I'm old enough to remember when Bill Clinton was hosting negotiations and it failed due to violence. What exactly is Biden supposed to do when Hamas doesn't want a ceasefire or surrender, Netanyahu is a corrupt maniac, Israel is constantly being attacked from all directions by proxy groups, and countries like Iran and Russia are inflaming the situation for their own benefit? People protesting may have their heart in a good place, but it's a very complicated issue with no easy answers. Biden is doing more for Palestine than any other world leader currently, even though Palestinians are still suffering. Continuing to peacefully pressure Biden to do more is great, but allowing Trump to win would be severely punishing to Palestinians, Ukraine, and America.
Anything Biden can do **now** can be reversed after Trump win and Bibi know Biden would lose election if he agree to the demands of these Pro-palestine protesters. With Biden's way of handling this right now, Bibi has no way to finish off the Palestinian for good. But if Biden cave to protesters and consequently lose election, Trump would not only allow but also send US troops to help him erasing Palestine off the Earth. Israel by themselves is superior to Palestine in every aspects, they has the capacity to hold out without US aid for a few months until Trump gain control and they got even better aids than now to make up for it. If anything, Bibi is hoping Biden would cave so he can win the long game.
Left-wings protests will not change Trump’s position on Israel/Palestine; it might change Biden’s. Protesting at the DNC is the strategically correct move here.
They might change Biden’s position, and I appreciate that, but they might also get Trump elected which is multiple orders of magnitude worse for Gaza. So my position is try and get Biden to change policy, but also make sure you demonstrate that Trump is much much worse.
Why does Biden himself get a pass, here? If his position on the conflict is liable to stir up a level of protest and dissent that will imperial his electoral chances, then perhaps some of the onus should be put on *him* to change course rather than the people who are justifiably angry about the ongoing genocide being perpetuated with their tax dollars.
Biden and his admin are actively working on creating a lasting peace, a two state solution with a regional security force between them that will protect the civilians in both ends. You may not care for how they’re doing it, but they are working on a diplomatic full solution to the problem in the region. Trump’s stance is to tell Bibi to finish the job. If you can’t see the difference, you’re not being serious or genuine, and are probably engaging in bad faith.
People are reacting purely emotionally about the topic and not considering the practical outcomes. It happens with far more than this conflict.
Lot of people also mistakenly think that refusing to vote for anyone but the most leftist candidates will somehow “teach the DNC” to I dunno. Support more leftist candidates? Like it still doesn’t come down to the voters, who are going to be less inclined to support your candidates if you sabotage the cause
Electing Biden doesn't mean he is getting a "pass" here. He will be the best result for Gaza in terms of election outcomes. Protests will continue under Biden, Trump will not care about protests against him when he is President.
Ok so then it's reasonable for people to keep protesting to try to get Biden to change his position. Not sure what the issue is, here.
Protest all you want, but also go out and vote for the guy who actually pushes back against Israel and wants an independent Palestinian state. Otherwise you're just punishing Palestinians even more. (***And*** punishing Ukrainians ***and*** Americans)
The issue is risk vs. reward. Protests *might* change President Biden's policies, but frankly it's incredibly unlikely he will do a 180. Protests *might* also get Trump elected, which is an order of magnitude worse for both the U.S. **and** Palestinians. Personally I don't think the likelihood of either is excessive, unless they get violently out of hand like the 1968 convention protests, but it's disingenuous to act like there is no risk to consider....*if* peace really is one's goal. And as others have already mentioned, it's strange that the closest person to an ally the protesters have is the one they are protesting, and not the one almost promising genocide.
>And as others have already mentioned, it's strange that the closest person to an ally the protesters have is the one they are protesting, and not the one almost promising genocide. Not really. You're way more likely to effectively exert leverage over someone who needs your votes than someone who doesn't.
Unreasonable, because the protests outside the DNC will definitely lure shithead counter protestors to create havoc again, ala UCLA. Peacefully protesting continuously across the nation, not one isolated location, is the best bet with the most potential for a positive outcome from Biden.
Why do protesters who want to throw all domestic policy away get a free pass? There’s climate policy too, will we also be giving away free passes for mass extinction?
If he gets a pass, which hes not, hes getting it because the ONLY alternative (whether you like it or not) is so many magnitudes worse that you have to "give him a pass." Whats the alternative? Yay I not only fucked the thing I was protesting about, but a significant number of other things I care about, but at least I held their feet to the fire! Your award for the moral highground will look great on your bombed out homes mantle. Assuming you had a home before it got bombed out.
Again, the objective is to pressure the Biden administration to get it to change its actual positions — not to win some sort of symbolic moral high ground. The point about not giving him a pass is recognizing that he also has agency, here instead of acting like the only people with a choice to make are the protesters. If Biden really doesn't want Trump to win, then maybe *he* should consider making more serious concessions. Maybe the rest of the party's "centrists" should consider whether or not it's worth alternating an apparently crucial part of their coalition to support an explicit ethnostate with a far right wing nationalist government actively committing widespread atrocities.
That’s a great objective. I’m down with it. But I hope that there isn’t a miscalculation that gets Trump elected. That’s all I’m cautioning about.
If Biden loses the blane lands squarely on *his* shoulders — along with all the people who helped push him into winning the nomination in the first place. There are lots and lots of things he could do to stop this.
Do you think Iran will stop then? When provoking Israel works so well, do you think the violence will end there? When we turn our back on the region, do you think we won’t be blamed for the atrocities that follow? Do you think that we stay safe that way?
Depends on the protest. I think screaming Genocide Joe, and demanding he stop a war the US is on neither side of might not work. But hey, reaching out to people is only for libs right?
Kind of disingenuous to suggest US is a neutral party in Israel/Palestine. We are funding Israel pretty heavily and have been for decades
Hm I did word that badly. I should have said the US is not a combatant. It's not like Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. We can't just grab our troops and go home here, because it's not our troops fighting.
The US is only sending guns to one participant in that war. That's picking a side.
Where were the protests against Trump for his support of the Saudis’ war in Yemen? Over 300,000 dead there, and Trump even took direct military action, killing dozens of children. There is exactly one historical precedent for this action, and it led to the election of Nixon. We are absolutely correct to assume that this is what these protests will accomplish a la Trump. I just hope every protester knows that they are taking on the responsibility for whatever happens in Ukraine should Biden lose.
They can’t answer that question.
It will not change Biden’s position. This is a regional proxy war with Iran, and the jockeying for position among the rest of the nations in the Middle East. Americans have already been killed. There is nothing strategic about protesting against the DNC unless you think (incorrectly) that this war is about Palestinians at all.
What is there to protest? The Republicans don’t have the whitehouse.
Didn't Biden kill UNRWA funding?
Trump canceled it, then Biden reinstated it in 2021 until earlier this year after more reporting on UNRWA’s ties to and cooperation with Hamas.
To be fair, getting Trump elected in the name of protecting Palestine would be extremely on-brand for the movement.
It’s called the Palestinian strategy to elect psychotic authoritarians in protest of Israel lol.
Their motto is “Surely THIS time it will work!”
I believe the saying goes “Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.”
Refusing to vote for Biden because disagree over one issue is rather petty.
I think the people who say they won’t vote for Biden just because of his policy on Palestine aren’t being sincere. They are either republicans looking to try to criticize Biden any way they can, or actual bad actors working on behalf of foreign governments.
The lesson of 1968 isn’t “the left should stop caring about war crimes” the lesson is “Democrats hoping to win elections shouldn’t alienate their base by doing war crimes.” If Biden loses, it’s because he was too dumb and old to read the tea leaves, not because people of conscience couldn’t hold their nose and vote for his idiotic genocidal policies.
No one in that camp wants Trump. They just want Biden to do better
I’ll be keeping the promises I made to my LGBTQ friends, my niece, nephews and women to protect their rights to bodily autonomy this November. I won’t be turning my back on them.
Trump will burn this country to the ground and these people want to lob insults at the DNC. These are not serious people.
Why are they only protesting democrats, when republicans control the house and are significantly more pro Israel? Why are so many protestors not even college students?
I don't want to speak for all of them but Dems are possibly persuadable and have the capacity to do the right thing whereas Republicans never ever will
^ The only logical response.
I mean...aren't they also protesting them? What makes you think they're not also protesting them? They'll say Biden's name because he is the president...you know...the guy in charge, but they are protesting all politicians here.
Why is the RNC not bracing for protest? Because these people have no plan to protest again republicans. Democrats are expected to be perfect and republicans have no expectations at all.
Yes, because the Democrats aren't obvious fascists. This is like asking why they don't protest against Russia. Why would you bother protesting someone who gives 0 fucks about what you think and isn't going to change their mind?
They are foreign agents who are trying to get Trump elected to harm the US.
They 100% are Russian useful idiots.
Trump isn't in office at the moment. Right now the occupant of the White House is a Democrat. Tens of thousands of dead civilians is pretty serious. It's serious when it is Ukrainians being killed by Russia, it's serious when it is Palestinians being killed with US weapons.
It's sad for me to see so many of my left leaning friends say they aren't going to support the Democrats against Trump. Like they're punishing Biden. No, we get punished.
The entire world will be punished if Trump wins. These leftists don't even care about how Trump will make climate change worse. They're willing to throw the entire planet under the bus to support a bunch of terrorists and Islamic fundamentalists who hate the left.
In their eyes, they're already getting punished. It's inevitable unless...the guy in power does something...and who is that?
The sheer amount of privilege is astounding
It’s unfortunate. If anyone protests it should be against trump. The existential threat of democracy is the most important thing to focus on. If you want to protest Gaza do it at the Republican convention. Trust me - their policies are worse.
What you think Republican monsters are suddenly going to change their mind?
No but the Democrats aren’t either. We lose more voters pandering to the extreme views of the students than backing a long time ally.
Yep. Most Americans support Israel by a huge margin.
While closer under 35, all adult age brackets have majority support. Jumps to minimum 75% above 34
The Democrats are the ones, in theory, who *should* change their mind about supporting a genocide based on all of their other rhetoric. Protesting Trump - who isn’t even in power - doesn’t make sense. The ball is in Biden’s court. He and the DNC should be protested every single day until they change course. Whether or not those protesting should still vote for him in November is a different conversation, but he’s losing more voters by the day and doesn’t seem to be very interested in getting them back.
Change their mind on what? Biden is the only person on the planet that's been able to get Hamas and Israel to talk and mediate a temporary cease fire. He's currently negotiating another cease fire. Peace doesn't happen without a cease fire.
There is not genocide; only a hundreds of years old war that you are suddenly caring about now. Biden is never going to alienate the huge blue pro-Israel voter bloc to please you.
This isn't two armies going at. Israel holds all the power and is doing all of the killing. (mostly women and children)
Biden said the protests haven't changed his policies. He is a good President for standing up for democratic ideals, our allies and the rule of law.
Netanyahu is not an ally whom Biden should be putting much stock or faith in.
The US and Israel are officially allies no matter who leads either country.
And there are limits to what being allies means. It isn't a free-for-all, there's a point where enough is enough and you have to put your foot down. Rampant war crimes seems to be a good place to draw a line.
Trump isn't in the one in office at the moment.
You don't think the sitting president is the one most able to effect changes?
And so far he has as the only person that's been able to negotiate a cease fire (and they're in talks for another one now), preventing Bibi from moving on Rafah (so far), and being the only country or organization to successfully get aid in to Palestine, obviously it's thwarted at times but it exists because US has been able to keep land routes in from other countries due to negotiations and sea port routes open due to our navy, and convincing Israel to back off on occasion about attacking areas with not enough intel as to who they are attacking - and no it's not perfect, nothing ever is in war, but none of that would exist without the US' influence in a place we don't have nearly as much influence as everyone seems to think.
That’s his point. Trump as sitting president will effect the exact opposite changes these protestors want
"Yeah Biden sucks, but we can push him left" "Ok, we will push him leftward by protesting unrestricted weapon sales to Israel" "***NO***" can we actually push him left, or was that all just bullshit?
It was always bullshit and has been for 40+ years in the democratic party. But the neolibs REALLY hate it when you point that out. They've always been conservatives.
Biden’s actions to this point already distinguish him from Trump. People have a right to make this their pet issue and vote accordingly. The rest of us will have a right to hold them accountable should Trump win and our (and their) vulnerable neighbors are no longer safe in the country.
You always have the right to be a destructive idiot, but that doesn't mean everyone else won't hate you for it.
It’s the same argument we throw at the right wing “free speech absolutists” when they say they’ve been cancelled.
Do these protesters plan to show up at the RNC also? I generally hate whataboutisms, but seriously ppl need to understand that it is essentially down to two candidates (DT vs JB). Yes, the protests votes only benefit the opposition and they silently hope you disrupt the DNC. I understand the frustration, but feel like there is so many bad actors at play. How is a culture and religious war spanning 70+ years supposed to just suddenly vanish? Will you guys be able to protest under a Trump regime?
They will be in jail. Trump has already said so.
I don't think they care. Got banned from a sub for pointing that out and the reason was it violated their "lesser of two evils" rule. That's the problem with people, they want to do what feels good rather than what does actual good.
I wouldn't worry. That sub is basically just a psy-op for the left, much like Conservative is For the right.
Protesting against the only people that might support you. How very intelligent of them!
They are being misled by foreign agents. Russia, China and Iran want to sabotage Biden's presidency because his presidency is one of the major obstacles standing in the way of Russian, Chinese and Iranian imperialism.
That's how it works. They are raising their voices to the people who are supposed to be representing them. That's how protesting and democracy is supposed to work. That how it happened in the 60s and in the 2000s.
You mean both times we got some of the worst Republicans in office and caused permanent damage to the country?
Republicans are actively co-opting images from these protests and feeding them into socials and every other possible outlet. When will we learn that’s NOT how it works now. They WANT us to do this! Wake up!
[удалено]
I agree. This is kindling for the MAGAs. I live in rural NC and I am hearing and seeing deep seated anger like never before. There are known militias here that are LOOKING for any excuse to come out. Kyle Rittenhouse is just a drop in the bucket.
What would make the analogy complete would be finding out that Trump was working with Bibi to avoid a cease fire just to keep things going here while promising massive aid and an even freer hand for Israel. We know now that Nixon was negotiating illegally behind the scenes with the South Vietnamese officials to avoid any semblance of a cease fire with the Viet Cong before the November ‘68 elections here…
“Massive protests” like that picture?
Big enough to enrage the righteous nightly news watchers.
It could be one person and people would be enraged
Take a good look. The people who are going to get Trump elected president again. Who will proceed to adopt a “kill them all” stance on Palestine. They don’t care about the Palestinian people. They just want to see Joe Biden lose. And haven’t thought about what happens after that.
Biden can stop this though, why is none of the blame on him? Stop unrestricted weapon sales to Israel. That's the main thing they're asking.
You know MAGA operatives, Proud Boiz, etc are already renting the UHauls to travel to the convention and make trouble.
I’d like to remind people here that it’s the job of the political candidate to earn the support of their voters, not for voters to support their political candidate no matter what. I’d think that’s especially relevant to genocide. I’ll still be voting for Biden but saying it’s the left’s fault if Biden loses is preposterous. He is perfectly capable of losing himself, which he appears to be doing now.
This is how Democrats lost before and ushered in worse warfare by their absence. As Mark Twain put it, History doesn’t repeat but it does often rhyme.
This is dumb obvious shit to get Trump elected. Please don't fall for it.
Cancel it, what a waste of money anyway, donate it to needy people or use for campaigns and voter turnout.
These comments complaining these protests would cause Biden losing to Trump are batshit crazy. If Biden is going to lose to Trump over the issue then Biden should act on them! Which is the point of the protest!
Yeah. This sub has lost it's mind. They are so afraid of Trump that democratic voters are being told they are not allowed to make their displeasure known to the people who are supposed to represent them.
it amazes me whenever i meet left-liberals who don't plan to vote biden because of gaza. yes, we should use our significant leverage to reign in Netanyahu (and Israel, in general) more and it seems like the admin is trying to behind the scenes e.g. Raffah, though not enough given we're still giving them aid, but domestic politics plays a factor with jewish voters. but, like, trump would only be worse in terms unequivocal support for Israel's bullshit and then like 100x worse on every other policy question. the dude is literally an open fascist who wants to end American democracy. lol single policy / conscience voting is so incredibly dumb and naive. left liberalism is built on progress both big and small as well as minimizing backsliding by right wing forces. it sucks that we only have two meaningful choices but abstaining from voting won't change that either. advocating for electoral reform and getting a sweeping blue wave are needed for that.
The whole point of protesting Biden and the DNC is to show Biden how he can get them to vote for him. It is the candidate's and party's job to earn votes. They're not protesting Trump because they don't want to support him. They want to vote for Biden but he's not giving them enough reason to. If Biden loses it will only be because he didn't do enough to get the necessary votes. And maybe, just maybe, instead of insulting and belittling them at every point, we should try to hear where they're coming from so we don't drive them further away.
The vast majority of Americans support Israel, so if Biden wants more votes, he needs to continue supporting Israel, and be even more supportive to get some of those Haley voters who don't want Trump. [Harvard/Harris Poll April 2024 (PDF)](https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HHP_Apr2024_KeyResults.pdf)
They can support Israel, but not how Biden has handled the conflict. [Overall, last month's survey saw Biden's approval rating on Israel slump from plus 6 in December to –9 points. This was a result of 39 percent disapproving and only 30 percent approving. Among them, more than a fifth (22 percent) strongly disapproved.](https://www.newsweek.com/israel-joe-biden-gaza-polling-approval-rating-fall-1886966#:~:text=Overall%2C%20last%20month's%20survey%20saw,(22%20percent)%20strongly%20disapproved.)
Eh I think it’s overblown. It’s good people are protesting. It’s also the end of the school year and a lot can change by August.
Yet another reminder that democrats love to shoot themselves in the foot. Fucking morons, Goodluck with 2024.
Well, we could reconsider our disastrous support for an ongoing genocide in the Middle East.. EDIT: Someone left a drive-by comment and then immediately blocked me so I couldn't respond. And then the brigade shows up. Pretty much speaks for itself.
Maybe listen to your fucking voters then
Okay, so Biden's team is currrently pushing hard in negotiations for a ceasefire. Talks were ended earlier this week, but the Saudi - American team have opened them up again. They have warned Bibi from invading Raffah, and launched an unprecedented aid initiative towards Gaza. What should they do? Send a peacekeeping force?
The voters in this case are demonstratably out of touch with reality though. In every instance, Biden has used about as much pressure as he can, without Israel just shutting him out, to try and limit their responses to gazan and Iran. He defied Israeli blockades to get food air dropped into Gaza. He has now directed the US military to effectively build a new port to get aid into Gaza. Trump, by comparison has demanded that Netenyahu should "finish the job" while his son in law openly fantasises about a beach-front property in Gaza. This is the same guy that purposefully, and knowingly, enflamed tensions and sparked riots that got a lot of Gazans killed, all while destabilising the ME and antagonising Iran too. For some reason, though, these idiot voters are angry at Biden for enabling genocide and are acting in a way that could get an actual genocidal maniac into power.
Why don't the protestors create a new political party. Why do Americans hate a multi party election
It's our election system that is effectively designed to devolve into a 2-party system. If we switched to a ranked choice voting or some other system, 3rd party candidates might become viable. As it is, the 2 parties have a stranglehold on our elections.
They should cancel it . The protests at Hillary’s costs her the election . No good can come from this . I’m sure the gop is organizing genocidal joe chants right now
What? There are many causes but I’d put protestors pretty low on the list.
Hillary cost Hillary her election
They won't cancel the riot it because their intention is to sabotage Biden's campaign on behalf of Russia, Iran and China, their sponsors. They are being led by foreign agents and their goal is to get Trump elected as a way to cripple the US.
They meant cancel the convention.
Oh. In that case, I disagree with that idea. Hillary lost because she ran a bad campaign and Trump had Russia and the right wing disinformation machine at his disposal. I don't think anyone cared about the protests at the convention or even remembered them on election day. Cancelling the DNC would be a show of weakness, and the Dems need to look strong and stand by their policies and what they believe in.
Hillary ignoring the voters cost her the election. Maybe Biden shouldn't make the same mistake.
Most of the protesters can’t tell you when the conflict began, What the conflict is about and even WHERE the conflict is happening on a map
Yep. They'll just repeat slogans that were concocted by foreign agents who organized the protests.
Being against the genocide of an entire population shouldn’t need to have an asterisk next to it because you don’t know every single second of detail is a little bit disingenuous don’t you think?
These people are all bots, just look at the usernames it’s the same people echoing the exact same talking point about “protest = foreign agent = they’re evil!” Just looks like they are trying to divide people further, intentionally.
They sound exactly like fox news addicts too. People are literally bitching about blue hair Edit: I'm also old enough to remember when it was right wingers saying that anti-war protests were organized by Iran
the republicans are probably laughing their ass off. This is why democrats always lose. Always tripping over themselves
I think this a good protest, we should hold the DNCs feet to the fire. HOWEVER, once November comes, we all need to vote for Biden. There's no real choice.
Maybe take a proper stand with Israel and people won't be angry in a few months.
Biden is doing the right thing by standing with Israel. Not only is it the right thing to do because Israel is the defending nation and our ally, but it's also what the vast majority of Americans want according to the latest polls: [Harvard/Harris Poll April 2024 (PDF)](https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HHP_Apr2024_KeyResults.pdf) Supporting Israel is how he gets more votes.
Jfc when people just shrug off killing thousands of children as a good thing...also, the polls make shit okay,! (Oh but those kids are mostly Muslims, so who cares? It makes our invasion of Iraq and civilian drone strikes okay too!) I changed my voter card to Democrat just so I can vote in primaries but reading shit like this makes my skin crawl enough to want to change it back to Independent.
Hamas is guilty of murdering those children by using them as human shields and starting a war against Israel. You wrongly attribute blame to Israel when it is Hamas who caused all of this. Go ahead and register as an independent. The Democratic party doesn't need people like you who support Islamic fundamentalism, terrorism and rape.
It's 1968 all over again. The Chicago Police Riot at the Democratic convention did not end well. Here's hoping both the demonstrators and the cops have learned something since then, but we all know they haven't.
If someone’s gotta learn from 1968. It’s the fucking police. Trial materials of the Chicago 7 clearly indicated that the police were trying the shut the protests down. They were responsible for the violence. But I doubt American police has learned much.
When will the DNC stop attacking the left? They bully you into going along and then treat you like garbage. But hey, at least we are total fascists. “Vote blue no matter who!” 🤮