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Doubt.
Here's the relevant section of the order, emphasis mine:
>Because the offensive statement was made prior to this Court's Decision of April 30 and because the People are seeking only a monetary fine, the Court will, once again, fine Defendant $1,000. However, because this is now the tenth time that this Court has found Defendant in criminal contempt, spanning three separate motions, it is apparent that monetary fines have not, and will not, suffice to deter Defendant from violating this Court's lawful orders.
>THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby put on notice that if appropriate and warranted, future violations of its lawful orders ***will be punishable by incarceration***;
It feels like you're far too jaded to see this clearly.
The amount of cynicism permeating this thread is disgusting. It's practically to the point where the cynics are rooting for Trump to get away with it.
If appropriate and warranted…… leaving it up to them to make that decision, they’ll say it’s not appropriate or warranted bc his cult will riot. They’re never going to put him in prison even the cushy rich people prison. I haven’t looked into but probably a safe bet that Vegas or bookies wouldn’t take that action the odds are stacked for no prison.
It’s not intimidation. It’s terrorism. Like textbook terrorism. Death threats and such under the guise of religions or politics is literal terrorism.
ter·ror·ism
noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Watch MAGA try and technicality the word “civilian” when they do it to a judge, while ignoring the rest of it. It uh, doesn’t need to be civilians, just that it’s usually against civilians. So it’s still terrorism.
Yes. It's put up or shut up time. Trump needs to be sent to the naughty corner. Even house arrest with Internet privileges taken away would be something.
If he can't impose jail for something this blatant, how do we trust that the sentence for the actual crime he's on trial for will be just?
Conservative media and "influencers" who stoke the crazies into things like death threats, doxxing, swatting, stalking; or breaking into your home and beating your spouse senseless with a hammer. Shit like that.
But you're right. We should have protection for the judge and not be intimidated by these terrorists.
Right. Would you want to be the jail guard or anyone else on the watch when cheeto's in jail? Maybe he should be sent to military jail for everyone's safety, so at least there are a bunch of trained soldiers around.
Just take him back to Mar-o-Douche-o and lock him in the attic or something.
Or Trump Tower, I suppose. Is there a "panic room?" Stuff him in there for a weekend. They can feed him harberders every few hours. But no internet.
So the strategy is to just be always as intimidating as possible to avoid justice?
Where are all the safety protocols in place to protect judges, attorneys, juries, court staff from mobsters? Those need to be deployed ASAP and dialed up to 11 for this fucker.
Sounds dramatic but he's risking his safety. I think he gave the warning in about as cautious and leveled a manner possible and, for all that we piss and moan here about the shortcomings of a justice system, I admire his willingness to put that heat on his own shoulders. To spell it out like that. Take accountability that it will be his choice; an undesirable one, but entirely his own.
Does he really, though? He's already bitching and moaning just because of an air conditioned courtroom. If he actually had to go to literal jail as opposed to house arrest at most (fat chance), imagine the screaming and screaming and screaming. He wouldn't cope. Also, mug shot without the bronzer, maybe.
Maybe it shores up the base even more-how much more can they be shored?-but do undecided voters take a look at the guy who's not only been (we hope) convicted of a felony, but also went to jail because he couldn't fucking even behave himself for a few weeks? I mean, maybe. I don't know anything anymore.
Seems like there'd be a good way to frame it in ads, though. Like, you really trust THIS guy to lower inflation? He can't even shut up for five minutes. Then, some actual stats and promises of real future plans to give ordinary people relief, pointing out that Trump gave trillions to his rich cronies, and did we mention he's a criminal? Yeah, he's a criminal.
If you truly believe that then you're getting information from false news sources. Full stop. Not a conservative opinion, that's just factual.
Merchan warned Trump that if he violated the gag order AGAIN, Trump would go to jail. This is not another violation. This was a violation of the gag order that came BEFORE Merchan issued that warning.
Most people who violated a gag order and are held in contempt do not face jail time without a warning. You're pushing the idea that Merchan is awarding Trump special treatment by not jailing him when in reality, Merchan is acting as most judges do in these situations.
I want to see Trump in jail too. But I also want to see it done for the right reasons and following the proper procedures and policies, not because I'm angry.
This, so much. We just need to look at Harvey Weinstein to see what can happen if things don’t go perfectly by the book. The last thing anyone needs here is to give Trump’s attorney’s things to point to on appeal.
> Most people who violated a gag order and are held in contempt do not face jail time without a warning.
Most people don't violate gag orders 10 times before a judge can issue a warning. Most people don't have a dedicated national audience willing to commit acts of terror against perceived threats to their leader. Most people can't count on others to pay their fines for them so they can break the law with impunity.
The judge shouldn't be treating this like most cases. The circumstances are entirely different than most cases. The judge should be using good judgement and taking necessary measures to protect the legal process.
> You're pushing the idea that Merchan is awarding Trump special treatment
I'm pushing the idea that this judge is failing to protect the jurors and the legal process. One juror already stepped down out of fear for their safety. Trump has already been able to affect the outcome of this trial. The damage is already done, and a warning doesn't fix that.
> Most people don't violate gag orders 10 times before a judge can issue a warning.
I believe the issue was how quickly and often Trump was violating the gag order. Trump has only been sanctioned twice for violating the gag order. Last week he was sanctioned for violating it nine times and was fined $9,000 times. Then he was sanctioned today for violating it once, was fined $1,000, and then was warned.
Also the latest violation also was from an interview he had on April 22nd which was before he was sanctioned the first time. It would have been very problematic if the judge threw him in jail for violating the gag order again for something he did before he was sanctioned the first time.
So the lesson learned here is clearly to just frontload all your interference before the first round of sanctions is complete.
Just throw it all out there since it's all counted as the "first" incident.
If you can afford it, why not break the gag order 100 times prior to your first sanction? That's ~~only~~ less than $1 million in fines, and if that does the job of scaring the right people, that's money well spent.
EDIT: I forgot the maximum penalty in New York is $1000, so it wouldn't even be $1 million if you violated the order 100 times.
I mean, okay, but he literally said in so many words that he does NOT want to put Trump in jail precisely because he is an ex president (we will ignore the "may be president again" piece because guh).
I'm not necessarily saying he's wrong to be cautious here, but he is being honest: yes, Trump is getting special treatment. Full stop.
He’s isn’t going to back down from it. This ruling was for a separate violation that occurred before his ruling on the other violations. Now that Trump knows jail time is on the menu, he hasn’t violated it
That's not how it works when it's a penalty for violating a gag order. The maximum jail time that can be imposed per violation is 30 days. It works separately from whatever verdict the jury comes to at the conclusion of this trial.
Relevant info for this. This penalty was for a violation that occurred before the judges penalty ruling on the other violations. As far as I know Trump hasn’t violated it since then (although I wish he would just so he could go to jail)
You know the worst part of it, though? I bet if he does go to jail, it'll actually make him more popular, or, even though it makes no sense, hurt Biden.
Ugh, what a time to be alive.
you overestimate how many people in the US will see through that bullshit, and not just democrats and independents. There are republicans turning on him as the days pass on and we see more of his bullshit revealed to the world.
Fair enough. I'm not in the US, and I'm not even American. I'm a neighbour, Canadian. And I will be happy to be wrong, as long as he's not elected, believe me.
>Merchan said jail time would be a last resort and one that he was trying to avoid at all costs. But he said Trump’s “continued, wilful” violations of the gag order amounted to a “direct attack on the rule of law.”“I do not want to impose a jail sanction and have done everything I can to avoid doing so. But I will if necessary,” Merchan said from the bench in the absence of the jury.Merchan said he considered jail time a “truly the last resort” for many reasons, including the disruption to the trial, political implications of jailing a leading presidential candidate ahead of an election and the extraordinary security challenges of incarcerating an ex-president with a lifetime Secret Service detail.
>Merchan said he considered jail time a “truly the last resort” for many reasons, including the disruption to the trial, political implications of jailing a leading presidential candidate ahead of an election and the extraordinary security challenges of incarcerating an ex-president with a lifetime Secret Service detail
In other words this guy gets a different, special justice system the rest of us don't. What happened to Justice being blind?
Intimidation works, plain and simple. Trump controls a huge portion of the population and Fox News is addicted to the value of being the megaphone for that control. Trump will always be treated differently. No one wants to deal with the enormous amount of death threats and actual attempts to kill the person, and their family. I hope I'm wrong and I hope this ages like milk, but there are very few people willing to risk the long term safety of themselves, their family, or their friends when the intimidation is so strong for a near god like individual who controls a huge cult.
We need our prosecutors to be courageous seekers of justice, not limp-wristed self-interested cowards. That was our mistake in the first place, letting the system get populated with the latter.
Merrick Garland seems to be the latter. Jack Smith, Alvin Bragg, and Fani Willis seem to be the former (at the very least, they charged Trump knowing the consequent barrage that would be unleashed on them). All of which is to say, we are not completely devoid of brave prosecutors.
Nah. Nearly everyone complaining in here is reading this wrong.
Here's the relevant section of the order:
>Because the offensive statement was made prior to this Court's Decision of April 30 and because the People are seeking only a monetary fine, the Court will, once again, fine Defendant $1,000. However, because this is now the tenth time that this Court has found Defendant in criminal contempt, spanning three separate motions, it is apparent that monetary fines have not, and will not, suffice to deter Defendant from violating this Court's lawful orders.
>THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby put on notice that if appropriate and warranted, ***future violations of its lawful orders will be punishable by incarceration***;
This is Merchan making it clear that he has *already* bent over backwards to avoid jailing Trump, and that this is his final warning.
I mean from a practical standpoint there just are certain realities involved, and lots of questions that have never been answered before.
You're not wrong per se, but it's also not wrong to say this is an objectively unique situation.
House arrest would be punishment, denial of a freedom for a period of time. This is one of the main functions of jail. If he keeps it up after that you can take away access to electronic devices.
I agree. I hate it but I find it so unlikely he will end up in jail next, especially over a gag order. House arrest with further instructions that additional infractions will result in jail is the way to go. That way there is an escalation of punishments.
Is it fair, no it isn’t, but we have never tried to hold someone to account for their crimes who achieved that level of office before. Right or wrong everyone is being overly cautious about how they approach this and he keeps pushing the buttons, which makes me think he wants it and will use the fact that he was jailed to show the system is going after him
>political implications of jailing a leading presidential candidate ahead of an election
The judge talking like that means he's more likely to not incarcerate Trump if found guilty. Leaving him with probation is such a slap on the wrist that voters will interpret it that he didn't really do anything wrong despite a guilty verdict.
My first thought too. He's basically telling the defense 'will you please just shut your client up so we can all get through this and I can give him a fine?'
Pretty funny how he does everything he possibly can to avoid a jail sentence when that would quite literally be the go-to for 99.9% of the population if they pulled this nonsense in court.
Trump wants to go to jail for a night to fundraise off it. In order for jailing him to have the intended effect, it would have to be at least a few days or a week.
I think strategically he wants to go to jail, but I bet he's scared shitless at the actual prospect of it. This is a guy who's never even lived like you or me, let alone like someone in jail.
Guy is so disconnected he can't even figure out "bring a jacket" to deal with a chilly room. Up till now he has had someone adjusting everything to make it perfect for him. No way he can handle a cell.
Yeah it can't be a 2 hour thing he has to really feel the consequences of being locked up and not having the luxuries he's used to for a at least a few days, terrible food, shitting in front of everyone, etc
Oh wait...
It's important for people to keep in mind that the primary purpose of the fines and jail time is to deter the defendant from further violating the gag order, rather than to punish the past violations. Of course, part of the problem here is that jailing the defendant often enforces the gag order by largely cutting off their ability to make their threats.
If jailing Trump will prompt him to violate the gag order more it's counter-productive, especially if the judge believes the threat of jail still holds weight*. Of course, if Trump violates the gag order again (making it clear he'll do so jailed or not), I think it's better for the judge to jail him to at least send the signal to the witnesses that he's trying his best to protect them from threats.
*The new fine is for a violation from before the $9,000 in fines. So far, there is no reporting of new violations after that first hearing.
Some unfortunate souls don’t even get a warning. They get detained for months before their trial even begins. And not even for serious crimes but shit like unpaid parking tickets.
He's a narcissist. I doubt he's thought that far ahead. I imagine in his mind it's a game of chicken. A lifetime of never facing consequences, he knows there is little chance of it now.
However, if he does get sentenced to prison, the narcissistic rage will be... interesting to witness. I would expect him to flee back to Florida and dare them to arrest him or he'll seek asylum in a foreign country.
Lock him up and throw away the key so the whole world can move on. At this point I would pay a subscription service to not have to hear about him and what he and his stooges are up to. I would consider my taxes funding his stay in jail as the appropriate subscription fee.
To be fair to Trump, which I am not one to do, these gag order violations occurred before the judge issued his first warning. Since his first warning Trump has not violated the gag order. If he does then he should see some type of jail time.
The incident that he was sanctioned for today (the 10th violation) was from an interview Trump did on April 22nd. So I think it happened before the other instances were brought to the court's attention by the prosecution. I am sure there will probably be other instances since Trump can't keep his mouth shut where he randomly blurted out something to someone a week or two ago that would be considered a violation of the gag order.
Fully agree. I do think that everything that happened before the ruling will be considered as one event and Trump won’t be jailed for it. Anything after he was warned by the judge will be fair game
This reminds me of when [Bugs Bunny kept drawing a line in the dirt and Yosemite Sam kept stepping over the lines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkzWyOaS8kU). Except there is no cliff at the end.
The only thing these court cases are doing is proving, without a shred of doubt, that we live in a 2 tiered system. When are we going to get a Judge that actually has a spine and will do something more than just fines and warning? They need someone with the same mentality that Macron is taking against Putin right now, call their fucking bluff. If talking and reasoning with the bully has failed the past 100+ times, then you need to (metaphorically in this case) kick him in the fucking teeth because obviously something needs to change to get the point through their thick skull
tiny fines are meaningless. the judge looks like a parent who keeps lying and saying the next time their kid acts out they are going to do something but then they never do.
Considering he still defamed E. Jean Carroll again after being sued twice for it, I have a feeling we're going to see if this judge actually does what he says he's going to do.
I actually feel sort of bad for Judge Merchan having to deal with a piece of shit like Trump and likely facing death threats for simply following the law.
He has had one warning covering nine violations. Today's hearing was about a violation that occurred prior to the initial "I will throw you in jail" conversation. He hasn't violated it since then. We're still on 1 warning as of now, pending Merchan ruling on The extra violation.
Are we trapped in a time loop, it feels like we have a loop going on
"Just one more time" - Judge
::Trump does it again::
"Just one more time" - Judge
::Trump does it again::
"Just one FINAL time" - Judge
::Trump does it again::
"Just one FINAL time" - Judge
::Trump does it again::
"Just one FINAL time" - Judge
::Trump does it again::
He's completely incapable of controlling himself, so I absolutely see him doing it again...however, I simply do not see him being put in jail for this.
That said, I really do wonder what it would do for him if he was...he's obviously trying to force them to do it, because he feels it will give him a boost, but I really wonder if he is correct.
Yeah..."jail time": They will take him to a holding room, not even a cell, and leave him in there for about 90 seconds, without locking the door, before they let him out again...that ought to be enough to discourage further violations...
Amazing how few people still trust in Jail actually happening.I'm not enthusiastic about courts and such, but generally have no reason to mistrust them in my country.
The US has a problem when it comes to trusting the legal system.Understandably so, but still.
At this point I genuinely believe the jury will find him guilty, and the judge will say, "Most Honorable King Donald Trump. Smartest Man in the World, Wealthiest Man in the World, Sexiest and Healthiest and Most Physically Fit Man Who has ever Existed, the jury finds you guilty - of being truly spectacular! As such, you are being given an award for having the best trial ever, and this consists of $2B in cold hard cash for your expenses, a new limousine jet aircraft, and a set of Broyhill Luggage - the first name in quality luggage since 2012"!
He is BEGGING for jail time as he sees it as a publicity stunt. Weirdly, for Trump, "all press is good press" as has been the case since 2016. He has reasoned that it will increase his standing and likely generate donations as he "fights oppression." It will also have the effect of normalizing incarceration should he lose on some of his trials.
**Trump does stupid shit all the time. This is a plan. Guaranteed.**
Me I wanna see what Trump looks like after a night in jail and being transported directly to the courtroom like any normal defendant.
No access to his bronzer.
No access to whatever uppers he is on that don't come with a prescription.
No McDonalds.
Fines should be relative to income, not flat amounts. $1000 is ridiculous for someone with that amount of "wealth", fine him 10 million each violation.
I see three possibilities:
- Trump breaks the order again and goes to jail for a very short amount of time
- Trump stops violating this order
- Trump limits himself to minor or ambiguous infractions, the judge does not deem them worthy of jail time and the judge ignores them
I’m guessing 1 or 3.
he doesn't understand or respond to the fines. the judge is being very clear and highlights the issues of sending him to jail, but if he does not change his behavior, he ties the judges hands.
in the wrap up to the article, reuters only mentions the federal indictments and not the state one going on in GA. too many to keep track of!
Put him away. Shut him up. I think we have lost the ability to think clearly here. Obviously the rich and politically connected are ruling here. Is that what we as a nation want?
It will never happen. This is part of his game. Keep saying shit and forcing the trial to stall while they have a hearing about the gag order for the billionth time. He knows the judge won't put him in jail and $1k is well worth the value he gets out of delaying the trial.
I'm so sick of waking up every morning with the cloud of this asshole likely being president again hanging over my head.
Instead of just jail, the **cost** of violating the gag order should have a few 0’s added to it, maybe one extra 0 for each violation, retroactively. Wouldn’t that put the next violation at $100million? I dunno, I’ve lost count by now.
Ok, serious question, why is everyone so terrified to put him in jail? If the worst case scenario happens, and MAGA extremist riot, wouldn’t they be considered domestic terrorists, trying to undermine democracy and our constitution, leading to the deployment of the military? I certainly hope riots will not happen. Peace is always preferred. I don’t believe the extremists out number or can overpower our military.
How many chances does he get to defame witnesses, judges and prosecutors? Is he not just like a toddler more emboldened when there are no true consequences? What prevents them the judge from having him spend 48 hours in jail to then resume the trial on Wed.?
He's supported by the American oligarchs and a major political party. We all know we're not equal under the law. If Jan 6 was done by minorities, Merrick Garland would have the prisons stuffed and overflow in Cuba. Hell, there probably would have been a few on death row and others facing military tribunals.
But since it was rich, white people, kids gloves, follow the law, change the law if necessary, obfuscate, delay, allow Judges to put their thumbs on cases. It's just this time, the curtains have been pulled back and we can all see American Justice is an extension of the boys club.
Warns, warns, warns... Fucking shit or get off the pot already. If this were any other person he would have been held accountable a long, long time ago. Stop making threats and actually do what you say you are going to do.
If this court plays out like a soap opera, this is what happens next, Trump will mull around during the proceedings. He may blunt some of his BS for a bit.
As proceeding get moving along, Trump will begin once more to open his trap.
I give Trump one week. By this weekend.
He should’ve been jailed after the 2nd break of his gag order. Why is a criminal not being treated like a criminal. No one else in this country gets 10+ violations before they get slapped with shit.
If he can intimidate a witness for $1,000, that’s significantly cheaper than what he’s paying his lawyers. $1,000 is much too low a fine for what he is trying to do. I hope he goes to jail soon.
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He’s incapable of the shutting the fuck up so I give it till the end of the day before he does it again.
And a little bit longer until the judge backs down from “jail time”
Doubt. Here's the relevant section of the order, emphasis mine: >Because the offensive statement was made prior to this Court's Decision of April 30 and because the People are seeking only a monetary fine, the Court will, once again, fine Defendant $1,000. However, because this is now the tenth time that this Court has found Defendant in criminal contempt, spanning three separate motions, it is apparent that monetary fines have not, and will not, suffice to deter Defendant from violating this Court's lawful orders. >THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby put on notice that if appropriate and warranted, future violations of its lawful orders ***will be punishable by incarceration***;
I enjoy playing video games.
It feels like you're far too jaded to see this clearly. The amount of cynicism permeating this thread is disgusting. It's practically to the point where the cynics are rooting for Trump to get away with it.
If appropriate and warranted…… leaving it up to them to make that decision, they’ll say it’s not appropriate or warranted bc his cult will riot. They’re never going to put him in prison even the cushy rich people prison. I haven’t looked into but probably a safe bet that Vegas or bookies wouldn’t take that action the odds are stacked for no prison.
Merchan hasn't backed down once from issuing jail time after issuing a warning.
We're about to learn just how well intimidation actually works. Issuing jail time will result in an enormous amount of heat and pressure on the judge.
At some point, we will have to stand up in face of those intimidators or be intimidated for the years to come.
It’s not intimidation. It’s terrorism. Like textbook terrorism. Death threats and such under the guise of religions or politics is literal terrorism. ter·ror·ism noun the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Watch MAGA try and technicality the word “civilian” when they do it to a judge, while ignoring the rest of it. It uh, doesn’t need to be civilians, just that it’s usually against civilians. So it’s still terrorism.
Agreed. It's best to rip off the band-aid before it's too late. It's already been far longer than it should've been.
Any day now.
"...two... two and a half... two and three quarters..."
Two and seven eighths!
Two and fifteen sixteenths!
[удалено]
I’d say there is a strong possibility he doesn’t even know what his middle name even is
Yes. It's put up or shut up time. Trump needs to be sent to the naughty corner. Even house arrest with Internet privileges taken away would be something. If he can't impose jail for something this blatant, how do we trust that the sentence for the actual crime he's on trial for will be just?
From who? That one guy named Gary who's wrapped in a Trump flag outside the courthouse?
Conservative media and "influencers" who stoke the crazies into things like death threats, doxxing, swatting, stalking; or breaking into your home and beating your spouse senseless with a hammer. Shit like that. But you're right. We should have protection for the judge and not be intimidated by these terrorists.
Yup, stochastic terrorism - just go down the list of likely perpetrators in the YouTube algorithm.
Right. Would you want to be the jail guard or anyone else on the watch when cheeto's in jail? Maybe he should be sent to military jail for everyone's safety, so at least there are a bunch of trained soldiers around.
Just take him back to Mar-o-Douche-o and lock him in the attic or something. Or Trump Tower, I suppose. Is there a "panic room?" Stuff him in there for a weekend. They can feed him harberders every few hours. But no internet.
Maybe don’t be a judge if you’re so afraid of criminals. How do such spineless people get such powerful positions?
So the strategy is to just be always as intimidating as possible to avoid justice? Where are all the safety protocols in place to protect judges, attorneys, juries, court staff from mobsters? Those need to be deployed ASAP and dialed up to 11 for this fucker.
Appellate court will have him out within 2 hours "pending review" of w/e motion his idiot lawyers file.
Sounds dramatic but he's risking his safety. I think he gave the warning in about as cautious and leveled a manner possible and, for all that we piss and moan here about the shortcomings of a justice system, I admire his willingness to put that heat on his own shoulders. To spell it out like that. Take accountability that it will be his choice; an undesirable one, but entirely his own.
To say nothing of the fact that Trump wants to go to jail because he thinks that will be game, set, and match for the election.
He could write a book from jail.
Something about his struggles.
Does he really, though? He's already bitching and moaning just because of an air conditioned courtroom. If he actually had to go to literal jail as opposed to house arrest at most (fat chance), imagine the screaming and screaming and screaming. He wouldn't cope. Also, mug shot without the bronzer, maybe. Maybe it shores up the base even more-how much more can they be shored?-but do undecided voters take a look at the guy who's not only been (we hope) convicted of a felony, but also went to jail because he couldn't fucking even behave himself for a few weeks? I mean, maybe. I don't know anything anymore. Seems like there'd be a good way to frame it in ads, though. Like, you really trust THIS guy to lower inflation? He can't even shut up for five minutes. Then, some actual stats and promises of real future plans to give ordinary people relief, pointing out that Trump gave trillions to his rich cronies, and did we mention he's a criminal? Yeah, he's a criminal.
He hasn't backed down once. He has backed down ten times so far. This judge is going to break his own spine the way he bends backwards to help Trump.
If you truly believe that then you're getting information from false news sources. Full stop. Not a conservative opinion, that's just factual. Merchan warned Trump that if he violated the gag order AGAIN, Trump would go to jail. This is not another violation. This was a violation of the gag order that came BEFORE Merchan issued that warning. Most people who violated a gag order and are held in contempt do not face jail time without a warning. You're pushing the idea that Merchan is awarding Trump special treatment by not jailing him when in reality, Merchan is acting as most judges do in these situations. I want to see Trump in jail too. But I also want to see it done for the right reasons and following the proper procedures and policies, not because I'm angry.
This, so much. We just need to look at Harvey Weinstein to see what can happen if things don’t go perfectly by the book. The last thing anyone needs here is to give Trump’s attorney’s things to point to on appeal.
He is awarding him special treatment he all but said if you were anybody else I would have already thrown you in jail.
> Most people who violated a gag order and are held in contempt do not face jail time without a warning. Most people don't violate gag orders 10 times before a judge can issue a warning. Most people don't have a dedicated national audience willing to commit acts of terror against perceived threats to their leader. Most people can't count on others to pay their fines for them so they can break the law with impunity. The judge shouldn't be treating this like most cases. The circumstances are entirely different than most cases. The judge should be using good judgement and taking necessary measures to protect the legal process. > You're pushing the idea that Merchan is awarding Trump special treatment I'm pushing the idea that this judge is failing to protect the jurors and the legal process. One juror already stepped down out of fear for their safety. Trump has already been able to affect the outcome of this trial. The damage is already done, and a warning doesn't fix that.
> Most people don't violate gag orders 10 times before a judge can issue a warning. I believe the issue was how quickly and often Trump was violating the gag order. Trump has only been sanctioned twice for violating the gag order. Last week he was sanctioned for violating it nine times and was fined $9,000 times. Then he was sanctioned today for violating it once, was fined $1,000, and then was warned. Also the latest violation also was from an interview he had on April 22nd which was before he was sanctioned the first time. It would have been very problematic if the judge threw him in jail for violating the gag order again for something he did before he was sanctioned the first time.
So the lesson learned here is clearly to just frontload all your interference before the first round of sanctions is complete. Just throw it all out there since it's all counted as the "first" incident. If you can afford it, why not break the gag order 100 times prior to your first sanction? That's ~~only~~ less than $1 million in fines, and if that does the job of scaring the right people, that's money well spent. EDIT: I forgot the maximum penalty in New York is $1000, so it wouldn't even be $1 million if you violated the order 100 times.
I mean, okay, but he literally said in so many words that he does NOT want to put Trump in jail precisely because he is an ex president (we will ignore the "may be president again" piece because guh). I'm not necessarily saying he's wrong to be cautious here, but he is being honest: yes, Trump is getting special treatment. Full stop.
He has to. It’s a smart play. The Supreme Court has a majority of trump puppets in place, he can’t risk giving any easy grounds for appeal.
OK this is your second last warning Trump then Jail Time
He’s isn’t going to back down from it. This ruling was for a separate violation that occurred before his ruling on the other violations. Now that Trump knows jail time is on the menu, he hasn’t violated it
Can’t Trump also just post bail right after getting incarcerated though?
That's not how it works when it's a penalty for violating a gag order. The maximum jail time that can be imposed per violation is 30 days. It works separately from whatever verdict the jury comes to at the conclusion of this trial.
No, for real guys, I'm serious this time. Guys....I'm serious. Seriously. Guys.
Judge giving him enough rope to hang himself.
He has enough rope to cover his legal expenses.
The world will freeze over first.
Relevant info for this. This penalty was for a violation that occurred before the judges penalty ruling on the other violations. As far as I know Trump hasn’t violated it since then (although I wish he would just so he could go to jail)
You know the worst part of it, though? I bet if he does go to jail, it'll actually make him more popular, or, even though it makes no sense, hurt Biden. Ugh, what a time to be alive.
Doubt it. Anyone who claims persecution will have to bury their heads in the sand and ignore a planetary amount of evidence that says otherwise
> ignore a planetary amount of evidence Precisely what they are very good at, with help of Fox et al
you overestimate how many people in the US will see through that bullshit, and not just democrats and independents. There are republicans turning on him as the days pass on and we see more of his bullshit revealed to the world.
Fair enough. I'm not in the US, and I'm not even American. I'm a neighbour, Canadian. And I will be happy to be wrong, as long as he's not elected, believe me.
Yeah it’s probably his nap time right now. He’s in court.
Sharting his pants
Stephen Miller’s about to send the most intense angry post onto Trump’s social media pages any second now…
It won't take that long. I give it two days. Assuming someone takes his phone away when he shits.
[As predicted](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/s/yeJM8PJQPd)
>Merchan said jail time would be a last resort and one that he was trying to avoid at all costs. But he said Trump’s “continued, wilful” violations of the gag order amounted to a “direct attack on the rule of law.”“I do not want to impose a jail sanction and have done everything I can to avoid doing so. But I will if necessary,” Merchan said from the bench in the absence of the jury.Merchan said he considered jail time a “truly the last resort” for many reasons, including the disruption to the trial, political implications of jailing a leading presidential candidate ahead of an election and the extraordinary security challenges of incarcerating an ex-president with a lifetime Secret Service detail.
>Merchan said he considered jail time a “truly the last resort” for many reasons, including the disruption to the trial, political implications of jailing a leading presidential candidate ahead of an election and the extraordinary security challenges of incarcerating an ex-president with a lifetime Secret Service detail In other words this guy gets a different, special justice system the rest of us don't. What happened to Justice being blind?
Intimidation works, plain and simple. Trump controls a huge portion of the population and Fox News is addicted to the value of being the megaphone for that control. Trump will always be treated differently. No one wants to deal with the enormous amount of death threats and actual attempts to kill the person, and their family. I hope I'm wrong and I hope this ages like milk, but there are very few people willing to risk the long term safety of themselves, their family, or their friends when the intimidation is so strong for a near god like individual who controls a huge cult.
We need our prosecutors to be courageous seekers of justice, not limp-wristed self-interested cowards. That was our mistake in the first place, letting the system get populated with the latter.
Merrick Garland seems to be the latter. Jack Smith, Alvin Bragg, and Fani Willis seem to be the former (at the very least, they charged Trump knowing the consequent barrage that would be unleashed on them). All of which is to say, we are not completely devoid of brave prosecutors.
Indeed, but it's a problem that the big boss prosecutor is in the second bucket.
Nah. Nearly everyone complaining in here is reading this wrong. Here's the relevant section of the order: >Because the offensive statement was made prior to this Court's Decision of April 30 and because the People are seeking only a monetary fine, the Court will, once again, fine Defendant $1,000. However, because this is now the tenth time that this Court has found Defendant in criminal contempt, spanning three separate motions, it is apparent that monetary fines have not, and will not, suffice to deter Defendant from violating this Court's lawful orders. >THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby put on notice that if appropriate and warranted, ***future violations of its lawful orders will be punishable by incarceration***; This is Merchan making it clear that he has *already* bent over backwards to avoid jailing Trump, and that this is his final warning.
good.
I mean from a practical standpoint there just are certain realities involved, and lots of questions that have never been answered before. You're not wrong per se, but it's also not wrong to say this is an objectively unique situation.
So put him on house arrest. There are options before jail.
The law doesn't allow the judge to impose a penalty that isn't laid out in the statute. He can't just do whatever he wants.
What’s stopping him from violating his gag order at home?
House arrest would be punishment, denial of a freedom for a period of time. This is one of the main functions of jail. If he keeps it up after that you can take away access to electronic devices.
I agree. I hate it but I find it so unlikely he will end up in jail next, especially over a gag order. House arrest with further instructions that additional infractions will result in jail is the way to go. That way there is an escalation of punishments. Is it fair, no it isn’t, but we have never tried to hold someone to account for their crimes who achieved that level of office before. Right or wrong everyone is being overly cautious about how they approach this and he keeps pushing the buttons, which makes me think he wants it and will use the fact that he was jailed to show the system is going after him
you get more freedom of speech for being in politics i guess
Sure would be nice if judges only used jail as a last resort punishment in real life.
Any other (normal) defendant would have been incarcerated and attending these hearings virtually from a prison terminal.
>political implications of jailing a leading presidential candidate ahead of an election The judge talking like that means he's more likely to not incarcerate Trump if found guilty. Leaving him with probation is such a slap on the wrist that voters will interpret it that he didn't really do anything wrong despite a guilty verdict.
My first thought too. He's basically telling the defense 'will you please just shut your client up so we can all get through this and I can give him a fine?'
Just put him in a room without a phone or a TV for awhile. Or however else you parents would deal with a kid.
Pretty funny how he does everything he possibly can to avoid a jail sentence when that would quite literally be the go-to for 99.9% of the population if they pulled this nonsense in court.
Trump wants to go to jail for a night to fundraise off it. In order for jailing him to have the intended effect, it would have to be at least a few days or a week.
I think strategically he wants to go to jail, but I bet he's scared shitless at the actual prospect of it. This is a guy who's never even lived like you or me, let alone like someone in jail.
He has stayed in luxury properties his whole life. He complained the White House wasn't nice enough, what about a jail cell
He won't get an actual jail experience
Guy is so disconnected he can't even figure out "bring a jacket" to deal with a chilly room. Up till now he has had someone adjusting everything to make it perfect for him. No way he can handle a cell.
Trump would be sent into a tail spin just by being weighed-in during processing and the number becoming public.
Is that public information?
I'm not enough of an expert New York specifically, but yes, some states publish booking info like this.
Yeah it can't be a 2 hour thing he has to really feel the consequences of being locked up and not having the luxuries he's used to for a at least a few days, terrible food, shitting in front of everyone, etc Oh wait...
you just described florida
It will definitely be 2 hours or less. He’ll most certainly get to post bail right after
It's important for people to keep in mind that the primary purpose of the fines and jail time is to deter the defendant from further violating the gag order, rather than to punish the past violations. Of course, part of the problem here is that jailing the defendant often enforces the gag order by largely cutting off their ability to make their threats. If jailing Trump will prompt him to violate the gag order more it's counter-productive, especially if the judge believes the threat of jail still holds weight*. Of course, if Trump violates the gag order again (making it clear he'll do so jailed or not), I think it's better for the judge to jail him to at least send the signal to the witnesses that he's trying his best to protect them from threats. *The new fine is for a violation from before the $9,000 in fines. So far, there is no reporting of new violations after that first hearing.
How many warnings would a normal person get before going to jail?
Between zero and one.
Some unfortunate souls don’t even get a warning. They get detained for months before their trial even begins. And not even for serious crimes but shit like unpaid parking tickets.
How many normal people could afford to just blow $1000 on easily preventable fines?
Trump has obviously decided that jail is good for his campaign. Right now he's acting like a baseball manager trying to get thrown out of the game.
He's a narcissist. I doubt he's thought that far ahead. I imagine in his mind it's a game of chicken. A lifetime of never facing consequences, he knows there is little chance of it now. However, if he does get sentenced to prison, the narcissistic rage will be... interesting to witness. I would expect him to flee back to Florida and dare them to arrest him or he'll seek asylum in a foreign country.
Lock him up and throw away the key so the whole world can move on. At this point I would pay a subscription service to not have to hear about him and what he and his stooges are up to. I would consider my taxes funding his stay in jail as the appropriate subscription fee.
It’s pretty easy to avoid if you don’t seek it out. I don’t, and I barely hear about the guy….
*"well, trial is over except for one detail: Mr Trump will serve 20 days for contempt...."* - some judge with a spine
The judge shouldn't make threats he's clearly not going to follow through on.
To be fair to Trump, which I am not one to do, these gag order violations occurred before the judge issued his first warning. Since his first warning Trump has not violated the gag order. If he does then he should see some type of jail time.
Did it occur after the first set of violations were filed by the prosecution (or after the hearing) but before the ruling?
The incident that he was sanctioned for today (the 10th violation) was from an interview Trump did on April 22nd. So I think it happened before the other instances were brought to the court's attention by the prosecution. I am sure there will probably be other instances since Trump can't keep his mouth shut where he randomly blurted out something to someone a week or two ago that would be considered a violation of the gag order.
Fully agree. I do think that everything that happened before the ruling will be considered as one event and Trump won’t be jailed for it. Anything after he was warned by the judge will be fair game
correct.
This reminds me of when [Bugs Bunny kept drawing a line in the dirt and Yosemite Sam kept stepping over the lines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkzWyOaS8kU). Except there is no cliff at the end.
Lock him up, we will deal with consequences later.
Stop Warning
Next time the judge will wag a finger at Trump, and that'll really teach him a lesson!
Stop! Or I'll say Stop again!
The only thing these court cases are doing is proving, without a shred of doubt, that we live in a 2 tiered system. When are we going to get a Judge that actually has a spine and will do something more than just fines and warning? They need someone with the same mentality that Macron is taking against Putin right now, call their fucking bluff. If talking and reasoning with the bully has failed the past 100+ times, then you need to (metaphorically in this case) kick him in the fucking teeth because obviously something needs to change to get the point through their thick skull
tiny fines are meaningless. the judge looks like a parent who keeps lying and saying the next time their kid acts out they are going to do something but then they never do.
Considering he still defamed E. Jean Carroll again after being sued twice for it, I have a feeling we're going to see if this judge actually does what he says he's going to do. I actually feel sort of bad for Judge Merchan having to deal with a piece of shit like Trump and likely facing death threats for simply following the law.
Warn and warn and warn.. just put him in jail. Jesust..
He's following standard legal procedure. If he throws Trump in jail without warnings or hearings he is handing his lawyers grounds for appeal.
He has how many warnings to shut the fuck up.. it's not even about justice. Just basic accountability would be nice to see..
He has had one warning covering nine violations. Today's hearing was about a violation that occurred prior to the initial "I will throw you in jail" conversation. He hasn't violated it since then. We're still on 1 warning as of now, pending Merchan ruling on The extra violation.
Are we trapped in a time loop, it feels like we have a loop going on "Just one more time" - Judge ::Trump does it again:: "Just one more time" - Judge ::Trump does it again:: "Just one FINAL time" - Judge ::Trump does it again:: "Just one FINAL time" - Judge ::Trump does it again:: "Just one FINAL time" - Judge ::Trump does it again::
Stop! Or we'll say "stop" again.
He's completely incapable of controlling himself, so I absolutely see him doing it again...however, I simply do not see him being put in jail for this. That said, I really do wonder what it would do for him if he was...he's obviously trying to force them to do it, because he feels it will give him a boost, but I really wonder if he is correct.
"I swear, if you violate the gag order thirteen or fourteen more times, than you're going to jail!"
Maybe, possibly, might, there’s a chance that…
Yeah..."jail time": They will take him to a holding room, not even a cell, and leave him in there for about 90 seconds, without locking the door, before they let him out again...that ought to be enough to discourage further violations...
Amazing how few people still trust in Jail actually happening.I'm not enthusiastic about courts and such, but generally have no reason to mistrust them in my country. The US has a problem when it comes to trusting the legal system.Understandably so, but still.
At this point I genuinely believe the jury will find him guilty, and the judge will say, "Most Honorable King Donald Trump. Smartest Man in the World, Wealthiest Man in the World, Sexiest and Healthiest and Most Physically Fit Man Who has ever Existed, the jury finds you guilty - of being truly spectacular! As such, you are being given an award for having the best trial ever, and this consists of $2B in cold hard cash for your expenses, a new limousine jet aircraft, and a set of Broyhill Luggage - the first name in quality luggage since 2012"!
He won’t go to jail and will get away with everything like he always does 🙄
Enough warnings already
pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
i predict we will see this headline again before Trump ever sees jail
Judge warns, again, and again, and again… yup, warns of jail time, again
Following standard progressive discipline procedures so the defendant has no basis for appeal due to bias. Yep. So terrible.
He is BEGGING for jail time as he sees it as a publicity stunt. Weirdly, for Trump, "all press is good press" as has been the case since 2016. He has reasoned that it will increase his standing and likely generate donations as he "fights oppression." It will also have the effect of normalizing incarceration should he lose on some of his trials. **Trump does stupid shit all the time. This is a plan. Guaranteed.**
Me I wanna see what Trump looks like after a night in jail and being transported directly to the courtroom like any normal defendant. No access to his bronzer. No access to whatever uppers he is on that don't come with a prescription. No McDonalds.
Plus intake searches, & weigh in. No access to electronics etc. A full weekend would be great.
Seriously. Do it already. It definitely will shut him up.
Fines should be relative to income, not flat amounts. $1000 is ridiculous for someone with that amount of "wealth", fine him 10 million each violation.
Here we go…and next time, Trump will go to jail…
Well, if Trump gets convicted, seems like he’ll get house arrest…
Ha, ha, let's be real! He isn't going to see a day in jail. Remember different rules for us vs them.
I see three possibilities: - Trump breaks the order again and goes to jail for a very short amount of time - Trump stops violating this order - Trump limits himself to minor or ambiguous infractions, the judge does not deem them worthy of jail time and the judge ignores them I’m guessing 1 or 3.
Damn two tiered justice system
Put the dude in jail already.
Warn, fine, warn of jail, warn, fine, warn of jail time. And so the cycle repeats until the end of time.
I really mean it this time, like, super duper serious.
Trump is so crooked that when he dies they'll have to screw him into the ground
Did the jury witness this?
Prepare the oubliette!
the judge is super duper serious this time mister, final final line
Trump publicly attacks witnesses. Judge: Stop that. Trump publicly attacks witnesses. Judge: Stop that, here's a gag order. Trump publicly attacks witnesses. Judge: No seriously, stop that. Trump publicly attacks witnesses. Judge: I'm fining you a pittance for violating the gag order. Please stop. Trump publicly attacks witnesses. Judge: I'm fining you again, I really don't want to escalate this further. Trump publicly attacks witnesses. I wonder what won't happen next!
This judge better keep his word!
he doesn't understand or respond to the fines. the judge is being very clear and highlights the issues of sending him to jail, but if he does not change his behavior, he ties the judges hands. in the wrap up to the article, reuters only mentions the federal indictments and not the state one going on in GA. too many to keep track of!
"he's had 50 chances, maybe 50 more will teach him".
….Again….
Put him away. Shut him up. I think we have lost the ability to think clearly here. Obviously the rich and politically connected are ruling here. Is that what we as a nation want?
This is Merchan's version of "Will you shut up, man?"
Lock him up! Lock him up!
Must be Monday.
He wants to goto jail for breaking the gag order first before going to jail for the actual crime. That ways he can spin it off.
*yawn*. Big deal. Judge has been threatening jail for so long it’s meaningless and Trump knows it.
Empty threat. Jail would just be another avenue of stalling with appeals. Delay is the game.
It will never happen. This is part of his game. Keep saying shit and forcing the trial to stall while they have a hearing about the gag order for the billionth time. He knows the judge won't put him in jail and $1k is well worth the value he gets out of delaying the trial. I'm so sick of waking up every morning with the cloud of this asshole likely being president again hanging over my head.
“I really mean it this time”
Instead of just jail, the **cost** of violating the gag order should have a few 0’s added to it, maybe one extra 0 for each violation, retroactively. Wouldn’t that put the next violation at $100million? I dunno, I’ve lost count by now.
Ok, serious question, why is everyone so terrified to put him in jail? If the worst case scenario happens, and MAGA extremist riot, wouldn’t they be considered domestic terrorists, trying to undermine democracy and our constitution, leading to the deployment of the military? I certainly hope riots will not happen. Peace is always preferred. I don’t believe the extremists out number or can overpower our military.
Another warning, I’m sure he’ll take it to heart…
A dozen more times and they might even slap him on the wrist. Maybe. Yeah right. American judicial system is a joke and two tiered.
Talk is cheap. Threatening jail time after only 10 repeat offenses? Ooh, I bet he's so scared...
Won't happen. It'll be another 'warning' and another pittiful fine.
He’s BEEN warned. Just do it already.
Stop, or I'll say "stop" again!
This crap is proof America is a joke hole that only farts can pass through.
How many chances does he get to defame witnesses, judges and prosecutors? Is he not just like a toddler more emboldened when there are no true consequences? What prevents them the judge from having him spend 48 hours in jail to then resume the trial on Wed.?
He's supported by the American oligarchs and a major political party. We all know we're not equal under the law. If Jan 6 was done by minorities, Merrick Garland would have the prisons stuffed and overflow in Cuba. Hell, there probably would have been a few on death row and others facing military tribunals. But since it was rich, white people, kids gloves, follow the law, change the law if necessary, obfuscate, delay, allow Judges to put their thumbs on cases. It's just this time, the curtains have been pulled back and we can all see American Justice is an extension of the boys club.
Warns, warns, warns... Fucking shit or get off the pot already. If this were any other person he would have been held accountable a long, long time ago. Stop making threats and actually do what you say you are going to do.
If this court plays out like a soap opera, this is what happens next, Trump will mull around during the proceedings. He may blunt some of his BS for a bit. As proceeding get moving along, Trump will begin once more to open his trap. I give Trump one week. By this weekend.
So what happens when they get tired of warning him... after two years of warning him?
He should’ve been jailed after the 2nd break of his gag order. Why is a criminal not being treated like a criminal. No one else in this country gets 10+ violations before they get slapped with shit.
Trump wants to be held in contempt and be held at the jail because he knows it would a logistically nightmare for New York State and the USSS.
If he can intimidate a witness for $1,000, that’s significantly cheaper than what he’s paying his lawyers. $1,000 is much too low a fine for what he is trying to do. I hope he goes to jail soon.