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Just talked to my conservative Dad about this today and conservatives truly don’t understand what this means for the country. My Dad thought it was just reaffirming our existing laws, that Presidents can’t just do whatever they want, and that Supreme Court justices were non-partisan. They have no idea what’s happening in this country right now because they’re being told that this is normal politics. If you want to convince people that Trump is a serious danger to the country, you literally need to spell it out to them. Explain exactly what the new ruling says, explain what Project 2025 is, and explain how much money conservative Supreme Court justices are receiving from billionaires. You’ve got to talk to people one on one and continue explaining what’s happening
Fox News may genuinely be the worst thing to happen to modern American politics. It’s essentially brainwashed half of the country’s voters, twists news stories to fit their narrative, and even straight up lies to trick viewers. Most of the crazy Republican actions lately are never even discussed on Fox News and they definitely don’t explain why they’re important.
Dude, I'm from Canada. And I've been watching American politics get so noxious over the past 20 years. trumpism spread into Canada for fucks sakes. It's infected friends and family and it makes no sense to me. None whatsoever.
They're like we need a businessman in power... my response is, do you even know how trump operates his businesses? They're not even religious so they can't even claim that, it's terrifying. And that's in my country.
I feel for every American who's watching this obscene and dictator wannabe and putin lackey gain so much backing from the gop and elsewhere.
Literally said to people no politics and almost went no contact with a relative and warned them and since it doesn't come up we can get along reasonable because noone is pushing each others buttons.
It blows our minds too.
Most of us normies in the U.S. believe these people need to be in the loony bin. They are so far gone they need to be in a mental health care facility.
There is nothing left in there.
I dont even know how we got here and how Christians believe in Trump.
Trump is literally everything the Bible is against, if you support Trump you are disobeying God and making idols, which it specifically and unequivocally tells you not to do.
In the form of stories where the villain is always someone exactly like Trump.
It honestly boggles my mind, wtf happened, how are they so braindead???
If you support Trump as a Christian you are supporting Satan himself
This is such an excellent comment and couldn’t agree more. I didn’t know Jesus was a rapist that valued wealth and power over everything? I thought he was poor carpenter that gave all of his belongings away to other people in worse shape. I didn’t know he was a bigot that wanted to put people that were different into a Migrant Fight League, I thought he offered to break bread with them. Didn’t know he fucked a pornstar while his wife was pregnant then got himself into a WORLD of trouble trying to pay her off and cover it up. Thats wild. Didn’t realize Jesus was so full of hate towards women and minorities, since he preached love and acceptance of all. These mafuckers do mental gymnastic flips like Simone Biles. The bottom line is that these 2 individuals are completely and totally and forever juxtaposed and you’re in a fucking cult.
I really respect and appreciate you pointing this out. It really as nothing to do with just our country. The microphone for influence has been taken to a level that it is causing massive hysteria and mental health issues. A person in any country can inflect the entire globe. It's insane and scary
Exactly WHY people worship 'businessman' has never been clear to me. Ya know what the party school at every college is? Business. Not to mention that trump was garbage at that as well. Like, you want someone who works hard, let's elect a damn custodian, but I never hear 'we need someone to clean up this mess' end that way
Screams! You can not possibly hate me that much. I am a stranger, innocent, and you have corrupted my mind, infecting it with madness.
This is truly so creepy in so many ways.
I honestly wasn't sure it was real, even when that commercial aired on TV. That's the first I've ever seen one in person... I wanted to light it on fire
I am quite disturbed as well and I feel the same. It's like some wierd chucky doll that infect the minds of our emergency responders and military....... it was the setting of a horror movie advertisement
Legal Eagle talked a bit about the difference in Fox coverage vs "liberal" coverage (in an ad for a sponsor) and to my recollection Fox has been essentially differentiating as "presidents have immunity for \*official acts\*" which, when you put it exactly like that, it doesn't sound dangerous, it sounds "good."
The last thing we want is, in normal years with "normal" presidents, for one to leave office and the next to prosecute the outgoing president for something that was a legitimate act of being president. So, Fox's framing just makes it sound like the supreme court is reducing the possibility of a weaponized justice department. It's obviously disingenuous, but if that's how you're hearing it, it sounds like a positive thing.
For hundreds of years no American President was ever prosecuted for "official acts". Then along came Donald Trump with no prior experience in any branch of government. Trump thought that anything he did as President was official, even though he had no idea what the job requirements were. The one official act he could have done was to call out the national guard to suppress the Jan 6th insurrection, but he declined to do that.
> to my recollection Fox has been essentially differentiating as "presidents have immunity for *official acts*"
And for those who didn't watch LegalEagle's video : in the 43 page document, SCOTUS spend a huge time explaining all the ways that official acts are immune (including they CAN'T be used to determine motive of unofficial acts), and gave examples of core official acts which are also absolutely immune.
What they DON'T provide is an example of unofficial act. Basically nothing is non-immune.
Any investigation that may impede the Executive Branch is immune. So, if a POTUS receives a bribe, they can't be trialed for that, because the action from the bribe can't be used by the judgement.
The document lists the example of POTUS poisoning any of their aides, because "removing the position" is a legal official act, and poison is a way to free the position. So prosecuting the murder would put into review an official act.
I have talked to several people who believed, “well, crimes can’t be official acts, so everything is good.” No. Crimes can be official acts, according to the ruling.
Because, while immunity from criminal prosecution is certainly significant, it doesn’t bestow omnipotence on him or force everyone in the federal public service to happily go along with illegal acts.
I'm not sure you understand the gravity of what this ruling means.
The sentencing for the 34 felonies he was convicted for in New York was pushed back two months, because some information used during trial was from when he was in office. If communications used to commit a crime aren't a crime solely because he was in office while he was committing them, then he can do literally anything because, if the people in federal public service don't go along with his illegal acts, he can use any means necessary to replace them with someone who will with no risk of being prosecuted for it.
The case against him for inciting an insurrection was considered dead because of this ruling. If inciting an insurrection is an official act, then anything is. If a sitting president can attempt to subvert the election with no repercussions, and is legally protected from ever facing any, then the existence of the country as you know it is on a ticking timer because there's no reason not to keep trying until they succeed next time.
There is a reason why the Supreme Court justices who opposed the decision wrote what they did in their dissent. If this ruling stands we will always be one election away from the end of the country, and the one coming up in four months just happens to feature someone who tried to take over the government for himself once already.
That little amendment in the ruling that evidence of illegal acts could be suppressed if the evidence originated in the White House is a major poison pill.
A lot of Republicans think the 2020 election was stolen. Even if you get them on the side of democracy Fox News and the Republican party has told them it's the Democrats who are the threat to democracy. When Congress tries to delay presidential certification to get Trump in office they will just say "Well Democrats stole the last election so we have a right to steal it back!" It's absolutely mind boggling the percentage of people who thought the election was stolen. When you realise that those people think the US was no longer a democracy at that point January 6th makes a lot more sense and Republicans will use the message of "Saving Democracy" to destroy it.
Thank you! Increasing understanding is exactly what needs to be happening now! As long as you're both genuinely trying to increase understanding and willing to be wrong, minds can be changed and progress can be made.
I think if a lot of parents truly knew the world they are currently pushing to leave behind to their children, they would be appalled if they understood the facts. Many people just truly aren't informed well, and these conversations might be the only thing that can change that at this point.
There are only a couple of MAGA types I haven’t completely cut out of my life at this point. None of them knew what kind of arguments Trump was making in court. They just assumed if he was making the argument, it must be reasonable and more or less correct. They still blamed democrats after I explained the gravity of the situation—abuser logic: look what you made me do.
I can't find a source for this. What I found was that the Supreme Court removed laws the prohibited state and local gov workers from reciving bribes from billionares. Now they can.
Here's a NYT article: [Corruption Law Allows Gifts to State and Local Officials, Supreme Court Rules](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/26/us/politics/supreme-court-corruption-bribery.html)
Clarance Thomas was accused of accepting bribes in 2023. Is there anything else you've heard?
Clarence Thomas is “close friends” with Harlan Crow, a billionaire and prominent conservative that’s been providing “gifts” to the Thomas family for years. In 2009, he provided $500K in seed money for Virginia Thomas’ political advocacy group, the same Virginia Thomas that’s connected to groups that tried to overturn the 2020 election. The true extent of Crow’s gifts to the Thomas family wasn’t revealed until last year when reporters found out about the lavish vacations, $100K+ loans, and other free gifts that weren’t financially disclosed by Thomas. Of course, while receiving these gifts, the Supreme Court has ruled on cases related to Harlan Crow and Clarence Thomas never recused himself or mentioned a conflict of interest. At best, Crow happened to provide gifts worth millions of dollars to a close friend. At worst, Crow has been bribing Thomas for years and Thomas hid the gifts to avoid getting caught.
For more on how many gifts all of the Supreme Court Justices have received, here’s an interesting article (https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/06/06/supreme-court-justices-millions-dollars-gifts-clarence-thomas.html). Basically, Thomas has received more expensive gifts than every Supreme Court justice since 2004 combined. A whopping total of 103 gifts valued at $2.4 million and that’s just what he’s disclosed. Pretty sure reporters have found even more gifts that he hasn’t disclosed since this article came out. Like you said, the Supreme Court has also just loosened bribery laws so that government officials can accept gifts after the fact as “shows of appreciation,” so expect that number to rise substantially.
You have to tell them the things they hear about in the conservative media are completely untrue. Then when they see those exact things happening in real life, in the exact way they were told they would, then you need to talk to them about colds and two week long bouts of jet lag.
Someone has to have already made this connection, but I can't help but think of Nixon's response to David Frost: "Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal."
There have been plenty of nutjobs. But I think she was the first politician on the national stage who actually bought into the populist nonsense that the others only feigned belief in to get elected.
The retaliation against democracy after Nixon got impeached, and they pushed a celebrity president that looked like a tough cowboy the elderly remembered from those movies, Reagan, who had Alzheimer's during his second term.
They pushed through so many legislative/executive poisons that are still causing damage today.
I guess it was palin lmao. At the time I thought she was totally crazy. But in hindsight…. I guess comparatively she’s a semi sort of normal run of the mill dumbass.
w. bush. i was riased in the church and i knew the fundies were getting uppity in the 90s. when bush 2 lost the election but stole the presidency i knew things were going in a bad direction.
I have a fridge magnet with a guy leaping in the air & exclaiming “I survived the Bush years!”
I modified it with “who the fuck knew Trump was coming!”
It's was written large on the wall then. It's been coming since the 70's.
Things grow exponentially now. Rome stood for a long time and then fell, now it's our turn... Only faster. In the future Rome will fall every 15 minutes. That's a joke, but it is ringing true.
I’ve watched some interviews he’s done since his presidency and he actually seems well-spoken, which feels weird to say. He at least practices decorum.
Also, he paints now. He paints soldiers who died in the never ending war after 9/11. It’s apparently part of his therapy.
I feel exactly the same except it's 2003 before I went to Iraq. I'm sorry that you learned the truth, it's really really fucking hard to get your mind wrapped around it, and then to make your peace with reality here, and then to keep waking up each day and figuring out how to put food on the table.
I remember when the Westboro Baptist Church were the biggest crazies in town as they screamed at people from across the street. Seems almost pedantic at this point.
i guess you didn't care when bush's (who lost the election, won the presidency through thuggery) first official act was to cut library funding 50% or when mormons overturned same-sex marriage in california. or when people went hog-wild racist after 9/11 and bush used the fervor to illegally launch a war in afghanistan. must be nice to live in a bubble.
You're right, I was in my early 20's then and didn't care enough. I've tried to improve myself over time and I like to think that I've become more conscious as I've grown older. There isn't much that I can do but try to be better than I was.
And funny enough with most of them being irresponsibly pro-2A those rights will go away too. There is no place for private gun ownership in a facsist, authoritarian regime. Not to mention trump at least twice in record suggested taking away guns.
Conservatives will eventually support this too. The government is never going to say “we are taking your guns to pave the way for communism” like they think. The government will say “we need to ban all guns to keep them out of illegal immigrants hands, who are at your doorstep right now waiting to use them.” And they will be told this every day until legislation is allowed to pass and the SCOTUS signs off.
So many people are delusional about the Republicans not going full fascist. They’re sleepwalking us to the next holocaust and will cry about the democrats not doing anything to stop it.
The largest single voting block in America are those that don’t vote. So there is an element of “let”.
Now the opposition, the democrats, should be leading the charge against this and instead we get….nothing. There are no rallying cries, no congressional hearings, no 24/7 screaming at the top of their lungs we are FUCKED as a country due to that ruling. Instead, Just clutched pearls.
That voting block never really voted, stop blaming them. The issue is that GOP and supporters have moved the goal posts out into the parking lot and refuse to compromise. Our gov is designed to operate with two parties that work in mostly good faith.
This is the eventual result of the crap Reagan and Gingrich started
It goes back to Nixon and his ratfuckers. Even in 1968 the Republicans were traitors, covertly sabotaging the Vietnam peace talks to make the Democrats look bad.
Ah no, we can partition out some blame onto these people that have every opportunity to vote and aren’t being oppressed by the state to prevent them to vote. Taking some time out of their day to just go and press a button on a screen, no matter who it might be for would have an impact on how our elections go.
And they’re passing law after law to restrict voting. Closing polling places in Atlanta and Houston while rural polling places stay open. ID laws, no mail in ballots. They cheat to win, again and again.
This is why I have some problem with saying, "letting them get away with it." etc.
There's some truth that apathy and ignorance have led to major weakness... But the aggression from the extremist minority in this country is insane right now. I don't blame decent people for being caught off guard, even if the takeover has been decades in the making.
It's 2024...because of Christianity...not by choice. Organized religion is extremist. Why do you think there are so many sects? They separate because of extremism.
The immunity ruling is part of a two-pronged power grab by the judiciary. The reversal of Chevron was more consequential, and if it had come second people would realize what the combo means. The judiciary said lower courts have to give broad presumption of immunity. But that just means the SC gave the heavily stacked appellate and supreme courts total control over whether a president can be prosecuted. Combined with “only the courts can say whether a regulation counts” they gave two decisions in a row that looked like rebalancing powers of the branches heavily in favor of one of the other two. But both gave the Supreme Court the ability to fuck anyone’s shit up if it doesn’t fall in line with Federalist Society horseshit.
Ironically, my mom was all about the "Left Behind" series and how we should be on alert and not fall for the "Nicholas Carpathia" when he comes. And yet! She's a total Magat now.
And all these hand ringing pansies, trying to throw Biden under the bus because he had a poor debate performance according to them.
I thought he did great answering all the questions despite the bullshit that spewed incessantly from Trump‘s mouth.
If you want nuanced, illuminating, and intelligent exploration and explanation of history and its relevance to politics and our life today, you owe it to yourself to check out the writings of Heather Cox Richardson. I subscribe to her free newsletter, and it's one of very few emails that I happily open.
Right, I start every day with her daily letter. It covers important events that don't make most news outlets, and provides a great historical perspective. I recommend it often.
I have subscribed for over a year and forward it to 14 people.
I sent today’s letter to Elise Stefanik - I hoped maybe a Harvard educated historian might help her see the error of her traitorous ways.
I’m sure she filed it with all my letters & emails for when they come to take me to the camps she’s so worried about…
I used to read her stuff from time to time, until I read something from her on a subject I’m much more familiar than her, and was shocked at how wrong she was. Now I don’t really trust anything she puts out
I’ll try and go back and find it, but it was related to tax law, the TCJA, and the Inflation Reduction Act. Pretty much everything she said about the topic was incorrect, and it was pretty clear she was just googling to try and get an understanding
After that, I can’t really trust her on other topics that aren’t directly related to her background
He really set the primary trait of modern conservatism in stone - hypocrisy. He rallies the republicans to impeach a man who had an affair, while he himself was having an affair. It’s so infuriating.
The framers of the constitution wrote that they built the republic on a foundation of virtue. They expected it to collapse as soon as kindness, goodness, honesty, integrity, love, etc..., but primarily the virtue of placing the public good above one's self interest, slipped from where it was at the time. Adams writes that commerce corrupts, working its way above selflessness to corrupt personal relationships as well as the nation. They seemed disappointed that they couldn't come up with a system that didn't require virtuous people to participate in good faith, but, report that they did their best. And, they were terrified of the alternative. For example, Washington would have just retired after the war, or his 1st term if he thought he could farm for a while without being interrupted by the sudden and rapid decline of the republic in less-virtuous hands. When he warns of political parties, the hinge is that they introduce opportunities for a degradation of virtues, a chance for people to elevate their self interest and narrow-mindedness, with people placing single issues, even valid ones, above the republic. And, none of them were particularly virtuous. But, they were serious about getting the constitution to work, considered it very carefully over a comparatively long period of discussion, and participated in good faith. And, they were generally pretty humble about their own extensive failings and shortcomings in the process and in their personal lives. And, that humility and persistence really paid off. And, maybe they were just lucky to get leaders who were as virtuous as they were. If there is a way to maintain a republic through a spell of morally corrupt people who place their self-interest above the common good, then we'd better find it soon.
This is very much a main point made in Tyranny of the Minority a book I have mentioned far too many times already on Reddit. A big point of theirs is that American politics was based on norms rather than political hard balling. It was based on politicians restraining themselves like reserving the filibuster for only extreme cases, not using political pardons for personal gain and such. Without those norms our constitution may not be strong enough to allow for a functioning democracy. Only one party is restrained in the use of their political power and it certainly isn't the one trying to overthrow democracy.
Important comment.
I try to remember my privilege... It struck home when I read somewhere that "climate anxiety" is largely a white phenomenon. Like, marginalized groups around the world and in the USA for GENERATIONS have known - not suspected, but known - that their future is dangerous and uncertain. Duh.
Or my friend in FL who, when I complained about the political drama on Facebook, said, "My family is from Haiti, we're just laughing at all this. Let me know when they're up there with machetes."
So yeah, this is bad. Mega bad. And also, not novel in every sense of the word.
That family is just spewing the relative privation fallacy. It does not matter that things are materially worse in Haiti or Sudan. People “laughing” about it because it’s worse in another country is a pathetic response. This is a very serious moment for the U.S. and people just hand-waiving it like this is part of the reason we’re in this mess.
That laughing family probably won’t vote. I hope others do take it seriously, vote, and never try to convince others that it’s no big deal.
I feel like a broken record at this point because I've recommend this book so much but Tyranny of the Minority had a really good chapter about how southern Democrats turn the south into a dictatorship towards blacks after the civil war. When southern Democrats realised that blacks can now vote them out they used all sorts of political tactics to stay in power, some tactics currently being used by Republicans today.
As a non American, it's pretty crazy seeing all the pro America, July the 4th freedom posts on Twitter today. I didnt want to ruin peoples fun but really wanted to tell people your country literally became an autocracy over night, the goons just havent been put on the board yet.
It works the same, the balance of power within government did not change. Presidents can be removed from office. The question of how to prosecute a former president was answered for the first time ever. Turns out - it’s not easy.
And CNN is "helping" by reporting nonsense stories like, "Biden privately wants to give up" and "Biden decides he needs to go to bed by 8pm."
After they help Trump back into office, I hope they're happy because they're one of the first news media outlets that Trump is going to put behind bars.
👆 THIS.
We can all agree the debate was a debacle… for both sides. And yet, (once again) tRump gets a free pass for all his lies and deflection as news media goes after Biden.
And if I hear one more democratic moron saying “well I am just not gonna vote”… YOU are contributing to the demise of any democracy as well.
Why is this called Trump immunity? Based on the laws, this ruling applies to ANY President. Why can’t the Biden camp use it to their advantage? Why, because they’re fearful they’ll be called ‘political’. No, let’s wait for the GOP to be the first to abuse this power. Biden could/should be throwing Trump’s ass in jail for high treason!!! Get some balls, Democrats!
Because the Supreme Court (who is majority republican appointed, three of whom were appointed by Trump) gets to decide what is official and immune. Trump gets a free pass. Biden will be stopped in his tracks.
Heather Cox Richardson is a badass. For years she has written daily essays to document current events, and the history behind these events. She is one of the only reasons I keep my Facebook account active
Great video. Thanks for posting, I do have a quibble though. The historian claims that the voters have spoken, by casting their votes for Biden in the primary. And that’s a bit disingenuous.
If the D’s had had an open primary, with their best electoral college talent running…
There’s no evidence Biden would have garnered the most votes. Personally, I think it’s fair to say he wouldn’t have.
Also the analogue to 1968 and that switching candidates doesn’t work… that’s also a bit disingenuous.
The D’s would have won that election easily if Sirhan Sirhan didn’t kill RFK.
Just wanted to chime in that the history of an unpopular 1 term president stepping down and making way for another candidate from his party to run… is not this “historically proven to fail” concept.
And, again just me personally, I think it’s a an intelligent tactic if a party’s goal is, solely, winning the presidency. If that’s a party’s goal… there will be plenty of historical evidence that it is a - necessary - tactic (if it’s allowed to play out and that data established).
Who do you think could have gotten nominated instead?
Does seem like we should have also had two whole younger generations of candidates from which to choose.
Honestly not sure who would have emerged from that. One of the popular governors, I imagine…
Im have at least a degree of skepticism that it would have been Biden though.
The DNC deserves some criticism for not doing a great job of nurturing talent. But there's also criticism to be leveled at candidates who seem to think running for president right out of the gate (and then flaming out) is the way. Beto actually said God wanted him to run for president for Pete's sake.
The democrats need to make it part of their platform that yes, you have to work your way up. Being president requires experience (as both Obama and Trump demonstrated, in very different ways). But some portion of the party will see that as them saying, "Wait your turn" instead of it just matching reality: no AOC is not yet ready to be president as awesome as she is and if she does work her way up, she'll be a masterful politician who can get progressive initiatives passed.
When you get an inexperienced candidate in office, you turn off democrats because nothing gets done. (Republicans don't care, they see having a seat warmer who does nothing as better than having a democrat.) Had Bernie won either of the times he ran, the pendulum swing would have been worse than Obama (ineffective) to Trump (evil) because people were far more excited about Bernie and he'd made far more specific promises, but republican voters would have seen to it that Bernie couldn't get anything done.
Without better civics education, it's virtually impossible to sell the idea of finding a candidate you think is a good person with a good platform who will be able to do what's necessary to negotiate with the other side to get their policies enacted. But that's what we all need to be doing on both a local and national level -- finding good people with good ideas with the experience to make it happen.
Or maybe Biden should just set an alarm for 2 a.m. and go live on the 'gram then. Simply say something like, "Remember when that other guy would post from the shitter at 2 a.m.? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Sleep well, America. Dark Brandon Out." Memeing seems to be the only thing that matters these days anyway, right y'all?
The Supreme Court of the United States found in Nixon v. Fitzgerald (1982) that the president has absolute immunity from civil damages actions regarding conduct within the "outer perimeter" of their duties. However, in Clinton v. Jones (1997), the court ruled against temporary immunity for sitting presidents from suits arising from pre-presidency conduct. Some scholars have suggested an immunity from arrest and criminal prosecution as well, a view which has become the practice of the Department of Justice under a pair of memoranda (1973 and 2000) from the Office of Legal Counsel. Presidents Richard Nixon, Bill Clinton, and Donald Trump were criminally investigated while in office, but none were prosecuted while still in office.[b] In February 2024, former President Trump claimed absolute immunity from being investigated for any crimes committed while in office. The Supreme Court ruled in Trump v. United States (2024) that presidents have absolute criminal immunity for official acts under core constitutional powers, presumptive immunity for other official acts, and no immunity for personal actions.[5][6] -wikipedia
Legal Eagle covered it in his recent video. He is normally not hyperbolic or click baity. The entire video is him explaining legally how absolutely screwed this is.
DR Cox-Richardson is THE BEST informed and factual source on the current political, economic, and judicial goings-on I have found.
Been following her on SM for years.
Definitely recommend her facebook or substack. Daily updates. Historical perspective. Good stuff!!
This ruling is the best thing to happen to the US. This ruling affirms AG Holders ruling in 2014 that President Obama can perform Non Judicial killing of American Citizens without due process and the President has full immunity. Thank you SCOTUS!!!!!!
this many people have never been alive at once
people have never been this rich
capitalism has never been this late-stage with this much power to destroy, employ, and exploit
the examples we have in the past of empires that reached similar levels of technology, population, and consumption *did not do well* in the long-run. they collapsed and their enemies picked their corpse dry for another empire to rise from the ashes, usually a little bit down the road because of the dead empire's polluted waters and exhausted fields.
what you can do? enegage in your community. join community organizations and local government. Build community gardens. Join the PTA. Call your congressman, reps, and senators. Make art, make it public. Educate your elders who are still voting. Tell them why you're scared. Help people who have less than you do. Be kind, be kind, be kind.
Eh... if it's whether or not democracy is at stake, people have thought that a few times in the past as well. As was recently asked on r/askhistorians.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/xVSwqAj0W1
To the people who are acting like this is something new that was carved out specifically for Donald Trump might I remind you that:
-Lincoln started a war with American citizens killing 600,000+
-Roosevelt put Japanese American citizens in internment camps
-Truman dropped nuclear weapons on civilians
-Polk, McKinley, Wilson, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2 & Obama invaded sovereign countries
-Obama ordered extrajudicial drone strikes on american citizens
All of these presidents were immune from prosecution for these heinous acts and never faced any accountability or consequences for their actions. Spare me your outrage over Trump and SCOTUS's decision; It's nothing new.
This is nonsense.
"Not charged with crimes" is not the same as having immunity. Presidents could have been charged with crimes, but none ever were until Trump. But SCOTUS made up this immunity rule to retroactively protect Trump and sets up presidents to be kings.
Also, Lincoln didn't start the Civil War, the South did (South Carolina specifically). This is just a straight up white supremacist viewpoint to act like Lincoln was the criminal, not the enslavers of the South.
"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."
-Abraham Lincoln
Like I said... Spare me your outrage.
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Just talked to my conservative Dad about this today and conservatives truly don’t understand what this means for the country. My Dad thought it was just reaffirming our existing laws, that Presidents can’t just do whatever they want, and that Supreme Court justices were non-partisan. They have no idea what’s happening in this country right now because they’re being told that this is normal politics. If you want to convince people that Trump is a serious danger to the country, you literally need to spell it out to them. Explain exactly what the new ruling says, explain what Project 2025 is, and explain how much money conservative Supreme Court justices are receiving from billionaires. You’ve got to talk to people one on one and continue explaining what’s happening
My sister is far gone. She has one of those ridiculous Trump paintings in her house where he is in combat. As if.
That’s rough. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people are too far gone, but there are some that are just ignorant of what’s happening.
The Fox News is strong with their household. When they're not in church, they are watching Fox News. It's such a cult mentality.
Fox News may genuinely be the worst thing to happen to modern American politics. It’s essentially brainwashed half of the country’s voters, twists news stories to fit their narrative, and even straight up lies to trick viewers. Most of the crazy Republican actions lately are never even discussed on Fox News and they definitely don’t explain why they’re important.
Rupert Murdoch has ruined the planet
It's the 24 hour Fear Machine.
Hey, that’s not fair! They also dabble in hate.
I've seen Fox News turn many an older person from normal to insane. It often only takes a year.
Fucked up part is that it's not half. It's 40% or less.
And church is preaching the same crap that Fox news is spewing!
All very Christian of them
Ask her if you can crash as at her place when political dissidents are being rounded up.
My condolences.
Dude, I'm from Canada. And I've been watching American politics get so noxious over the past 20 years. trumpism spread into Canada for fucks sakes. It's infected friends and family and it makes no sense to me. None whatsoever. They're like we need a businessman in power... my response is, do you even know how trump operates his businesses? They're not even religious so they can't even claim that, it's terrifying. And that's in my country. I feel for every American who's watching this obscene and dictator wannabe and putin lackey gain so much backing from the gop and elsewhere.
At least hire a “businessman” who didn’t go broke after bankrupting every business he had despite inheriting $250 million from his rich daddy lol.
"But he understands the system!!!111" - said by several of my relatives that I refuse to talk to nowadays.
Lmaooo that’s a new one.
Literally said to people no politics and almost went no contact with a relative and warned them and since it doesn't come up we can get along reasonable because noone is pushing each others buttons.
It blows our minds too. Most of us normies in the U.S. believe these people need to be in the loony bin. They are so far gone they need to be in a mental health care facility. There is nothing left in there. I dont even know how we got here and how Christians believe in Trump. Trump is literally everything the Bible is against, if you support Trump you are disobeying God and making idols, which it specifically and unequivocally tells you not to do. In the form of stories where the villain is always someone exactly like Trump. It honestly boggles my mind, wtf happened, how are they so braindead??? If you support Trump as a Christian you are supporting Satan himself
This is such an excellent comment and couldn’t agree more. I didn’t know Jesus was a rapist that valued wealth and power over everything? I thought he was poor carpenter that gave all of his belongings away to other people in worse shape. I didn’t know he was a bigot that wanted to put people that were different into a Migrant Fight League, I thought he offered to break bread with them. Didn’t know he fucked a pornstar while his wife was pregnant then got himself into a WORLD of trouble trying to pay her off and cover it up. Thats wild. Didn’t realize Jesus was so full of hate towards women and minorities, since he preached love and acceptance of all. These mafuckers do mental gymnastic flips like Simone Biles. The bottom line is that these 2 individuals are completely and totally and forever juxtaposed and you’re in a fucking cult.
It's really is just bizarre and scarily so.
I really respect and appreciate you pointing this out. It really as nothing to do with just our country. The microphone for influence has been taken to a level that it is causing massive hysteria and mental health issues. A person in any country can inflect the entire globe. It's insane and scary
Exactly WHY people worship 'businessman' has never been clear to me. Ya know what the party school at every college is? Business. Not to mention that trump was garbage at that as well. Like, you want someone who works hard, let's elect a damn custodian, but I never hear 'we need someone to clean up this mess' end that way
Literally North Korea type shit 😔
I was at my uncles house for the 4th today. They had a Trumpy Bear in their dining room sitting in a chair near me. A fucking Trumpy Bear.
What THE F is Trumpy Bear?
Christ. If I had to see it. [So do you. ](https://youtu.be/EwArMFCLmZY?si=CdGvl6Ifvzyj6QCg)
Screams! You can not possibly hate me that much. I am a stranger, innocent, and you have corrupted my mind, infecting it with madness. This is truly so creepy in so many ways.
I honestly wasn't sure it was real, even when that commercial aired on TV. That's the first I've ever seen one in person... I wanted to light it on fire
I am quite disturbed as well and I feel the same. It's like some wierd chucky doll that infect the minds of our emergency responders and military....... it was the setting of a horror movie advertisement
It is teddy ruxbin for insecure adults.
Yuck. Turn it into a dart board the next time you visit.
There is no visiting. We barely talk anymore. We used to be so close and Trump ruined that.
That’s so….tacky
I don't see how people DON'T see it. The steps to a very, very dangerous dictatorship are being done in plain sight.
How do you hear "Presidents have immunity" and think "that means the President can't just do whatever he wants"?
Legal Eagle talked a bit about the difference in Fox coverage vs "liberal" coverage (in an ad for a sponsor) and to my recollection Fox has been essentially differentiating as "presidents have immunity for \*official acts\*" which, when you put it exactly like that, it doesn't sound dangerous, it sounds "good." The last thing we want is, in normal years with "normal" presidents, for one to leave office and the next to prosecute the outgoing president for something that was a legitimate act of being president. So, Fox's framing just makes it sound like the supreme court is reducing the possibility of a weaponized justice department. It's obviously disingenuous, but if that's how you're hearing it, it sounds like a positive thing.
For hundreds of years no American President was ever prosecuted for "official acts". Then along came Donald Trump with no prior experience in any branch of government. Trump thought that anything he did as President was official, even though he had no idea what the job requirements were. The one official act he could have done was to call out the national guard to suppress the Jan 6th insurrection, but he declined to do that.
> to my recollection Fox has been essentially differentiating as "presidents have immunity for *official acts*" And for those who didn't watch LegalEagle's video : in the 43 page document, SCOTUS spend a huge time explaining all the ways that official acts are immune (including they CAN'T be used to determine motive of unofficial acts), and gave examples of core official acts which are also absolutely immune. What they DON'T provide is an example of unofficial act. Basically nothing is non-immune. Any investigation that may impede the Executive Branch is immune. So, if a POTUS receives a bribe, they can't be trialed for that, because the action from the bribe can't be used by the judgement. The document lists the example of POTUS poisoning any of their aides, because "removing the position" is a legal official act, and poison is a way to free the position. So prosecuting the murder would put into review an official act.
I have talked to several people who believed, “well, crimes can’t be official acts, so everything is good.” No. Crimes can be official acts, according to the ruling.
Because, while immunity from criminal prosecution is certainly significant, it doesn’t bestow omnipotence on him or force everyone in the federal public service to happily go along with illegal acts.
I'm not sure you understand the gravity of what this ruling means. The sentencing for the 34 felonies he was convicted for in New York was pushed back two months, because some information used during trial was from when he was in office. If communications used to commit a crime aren't a crime solely because he was in office while he was committing them, then he can do literally anything because, if the people in federal public service don't go along with his illegal acts, he can use any means necessary to replace them with someone who will with no risk of being prosecuted for it. The case against him for inciting an insurrection was considered dead because of this ruling. If inciting an insurrection is an official act, then anything is. If a sitting president can attempt to subvert the election with no repercussions, and is legally protected from ever facing any, then the existence of the country as you know it is on a ticking timer because there's no reason not to keep trying until they succeed next time. There is a reason why the Supreme Court justices who opposed the decision wrote what they did in their dissent. If this ruling stands we will always be one election away from the end of the country, and the one coming up in four months just happens to feature someone who tried to take over the government for himself once already.
That little amendment in the ruling that evidence of illegal acts could be suppressed if the evidence originated in the White House is a major poison pill.
Yep, all they need is a Reichstag fire
I’ve been waiting for one for years now; I’m surprised it’s taking this long.
That's what Project 2025 is for, filling government jobs with people who will happily commit illegal acts on the president's behalf.
That only covers the most ridiculously extreme situations There are so many illegal but not military murder things
yes but project 2025 will remove fed employees that disagree with the president.
A lot of Republicans think the 2020 election was stolen. Even if you get them on the side of democracy Fox News and the Republican party has told them it's the Democrats who are the threat to democracy. When Congress tries to delay presidential certification to get Trump in office they will just say "Well Democrats stole the last election so we have a right to steal it back!" It's absolutely mind boggling the percentage of people who thought the election was stolen. When you realise that those people think the US was no longer a democracy at that point January 6th makes a lot more sense and Republicans will use the message of "Saving Democracy" to destroy it.
Thank you! Increasing understanding is exactly what needs to be happening now! As long as you're both genuinely trying to increase understanding and willing to be wrong, minds can be changed and progress can be made. I think if a lot of parents truly knew the world they are currently pushing to leave behind to their children, they would be appalled if they understood the facts. Many people just truly aren't informed well, and these conversations might be the only thing that can change that at this point.
There are only a couple of MAGA types I haven’t completely cut out of my life at this point. None of them knew what kind of arguments Trump was making in court. They just assumed if he was making the argument, it must be reasonable and more or less correct. They still blamed democrats after I explained the gravity of the situation—abuser logic: look what you made me do.
So how do you explain exactly what the new ruling says?
i have tried explaining. Still doesn’t help. if it isn’t on fox news conservatives won’t listen.
I can't find a source for this. What I found was that the Supreme Court removed laws the prohibited state and local gov workers from reciving bribes from billionares. Now they can. Here's a NYT article: [Corruption Law Allows Gifts to State and Local Officials, Supreme Court Rules](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/26/us/politics/supreme-court-corruption-bribery.html) Clarance Thomas was accused of accepting bribes in 2023. Is there anything else you've heard?
Clarence Thomas is “close friends” with Harlan Crow, a billionaire and prominent conservative that’s been providing “gifts” to the Thomas family for years. In 2009, he provided $500K in seed money for Virginia Thomas’ political advocacy group, the same Virginia Thomas that’s connected to groups that tried to overturn the 2020 election. The true extent of Crow’s gifts to the Thomas family wasn’t revealed until last year when reporters found out about the lavish vacations, $100K+ loans, and other free gifts that weren’t financially disclosed by Thomas. Of course, while receiving these gifts, the Supreme Court has ruled on cases related to Harlan Crow and Clarence Thomas never recused himself or mentioned a conflict of interest. At best, Crow happened to provide gifts worth millions of dollars to a close friend. At worst, Crow has been bribing Thomas for years and Thomas hid the gifts to avoid getting caught. For more on how many gifts all of the Supreme Court Justices have received, here’s an interesting article (https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/06/06/supreme-court-justices-millions-dollars-gifts-clarence-thomas.html). Basically, Thomas has received more expensive gifts than every Supreme Court justice since 2004 combined. A whopping total of 103 gifts valued at $2.4 million and that’s just what he’s disclosed. Pretty sure reporters have found even more gifts that he hasn’t disclosed since this article came out. Like you said, the Supreme Court has also just loosened bribery laws so that government officials can accept gifts after the fact as “shows of appreciation,” so expect that number to rise substantially.
You have to tell them the things they hear about in the conservative media are completely untrue. Then when they see those exact things happening in real life, in the exact way they were told they would, then you need to talk to them about colds and two week long bouts of jet lag.
Don't forget Agenda 47.
Someone has to have already made this connection, but I can't help but think of Nixon's response to David Frost: "Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal."
One has to feel sorry for Nixon, a man ahead of his time. /s
Nixon was a saint next to Trump. But he was a domino that lead to us falling.
And that line was considered an extreme fucked up position to take
I cannot properly put into words how much that I miss the relatively boring years of my life prior to 2016.
Remember when we thought W.Bush was the bottom of the barrel…
I remember when I thought everything would start to get better after Jerry Falwell and Newt Gingrich were out of the spotlight.
What was the tipping point from bad politician to total nutjob? Was it Sarah Palin?
There have been plenty of nutjobs. But I think she was the first politician on the national stage who actually bought into the populist nonsense that the others only feigned belief in to get elected.
She did not just bought into populism, she made her stupidity one of her selling point
Bough?
The retaliation against democracy after Nixon got impeached, and they pushed a celebrity president that looked like a tough cowboy the elderly remembered from those movies, Reagan, who had Alzheimer's during his second term. They pushed through so many legislative/executive poisons that are still causing damage today.
I guess it was palin lmao. At the time I thought she was totally crazy. But in hindsight…. I guess comparatively she’s a semi sort of normal run of the mill dumbass.
w. bush. i was riased in the church and i knew the fundies were getting uppity in the 90s. when bush 2 lost the election but stole the presidency i knew things were going in a bad direction.
I have a fridge magnet with a guy leaping in the air & exclaiming “I survived the Bush years!” I modified it with “who the fuck knew Trump was coming!”
It's was written large on the wall then. It's been coming since the 70's. Things grow exponentially now. Rome stood for a long time and then fell, now it's our turn... Only faster. In the future Rome will fall every 15 minutes. That's a joke, but it is ringing true.
Scraped the bottom of that barrel so hard we found another barrel.
Turns out it’s a Mary Poppins’ bottomless barrel
I’ve watched some interviews he’s done since his presidency and he actually seems well-spoken, which feels weird to say. He at least practices decorum. Also, he paints now. He paints soldiers who died in the never ending war after 9/11. It’s apparently part of his therapy.
What a decade it’s been
A little over 9 years since Trump descended that escalator, I am so exhausted
Yeah. Me too.
Even 2016 seems kinda like innocent times compared to 2024.
I feel exactly the same except it's 2003 before I went to Iraq. I'm sorry that you learned the truth, it's really really fucking hard to get your mind wrapped around it, and then to make your peace with reality here, and then to keep waking up each day and figuring out how to put food on the table.
I remember when the Westboro Baptist Church were the biggest crazies in town as they screamed at people from across the street. Seems almost pedantic at this point.
I was just saying to my wife "Remember the 2012 election? It seems so stupid that we got worked up at all about it."
i guess you didn't care when bush's (who lost the election, won the presidency through thuggery) first official act was to cut library funding 50% or when mormons overturned same-sex marriage in california. or when people went hog-wild racist after 9/11 and bush used the fervor to illegally launch a war in afghanistan. must be nice to live in a bubble.
You're right, I was in my early 20's then and didn't care enough. I've tried to improve myself over time and I like to think that I've become more conscious as I've grown older. There isn't much that I can do but try to be better than I was.
Thanks for doing that. Please vote with others' needs in mind. We are all guilty of the good we didn't do.
The majority of actual Americans are letting the minority Christian Nationalist terrorists take our First amendment rights away.
And funny enough with most of them being irresponsibly pro-2A those rights will go away too. There is no place for private gun ownership in a facsist, authoritarian regime. Not to mention trump at least twice in record suggested taking away guns.
I definitely see this SCOTUS reviewing the “well regulated militia” bit to make sure the firearms are owned by the “right thinking” people.
Well, Clarence wanted people with domestic violence restraining orders to be able to have guns. Are these the ones we are talking about?
Most likely.
Conservatives will eventually support this too. The government is never going to say “we are taking your guns to pave the way for communism” like they think. The government will say “we need to ban all guns to keep them out of illegal immigrants hands, who are at your doorstep right now waiting to use them.” And they will be told this every day until legislation is allowed to pass and the SCOTUS signs off.
They're going to take away a lot more than that.
So many people are delusional about the Republicans not going full fascist. They’re sleepwalking us to the next holocaust and will cry about the democrats not doing anything to stop it.
People keep saying "let", and I really don't know why.
The largest single voting block in America are those that don’t vote. So there is an element of “let”. Now the opposition, the democrats, should be leading the charge against this and instead we get….nothing. There are no rallying cries, no congressional hearings, no 24/7 screaming at the top of their lungs we are FUCKED as a country due to that ruling. Instead, Just clutched pearls.
That voting block never really voted, stop blaming them. The issue is that GOP and supporters have moved the goal posts out into the parking lot and refuse to compromise. Our gov is designed to operate with two parties that work in mostly good faith. This is the eventual result of the crap Reagan and Gingrich started
It goes back to Nixon and his ratfuckers. Even in 1968 the Republicans were traitors, covertly sabotaging the Vietnam peace talks to make the Democrats look bad.
Ah no, we can partition out some blame onto these people that have every opportunity to vote and aren’t being oppressed by the state to prevent them to vote. Taking some time out of their day to just go and press a button on a screen, no matter who it might be for would have an impact on how our elections go.
If they never voted, yes I will definitely blame them for not voting. It's not the only issue. But it's a problem too.
Because they don't vote. If you don't vote, you do not have a right to complain about the consequences. IE* you let it happen.
You guys are gonna need a lot more than voting to get outta this one.
Voting participation in America has always been super low. If everyone actually came out to vote they would never win another election
And they’re passing law after law to restrict voting. Closing polling places in Atlanta and Houston while rural polling places stay open. ID laws, no mail in ballots. They cheat to win, again and again.
This is why I have some problem with saying, "letting them get away with it." etc. There's some truth that apathy and ignorance have led to major weakness... But the aggression from the extremist minority in this country is insane right now. I don't blame decent people for being caught off guard, even if the takeover has been decades in the making.
First amendment? How? Terrorists?
Christians are in the majority
Don't put that evil on us. Republicans aren't christian. They just claim to be.
It's 2024...because of Christianity...not by choice. Organized religion is extremist. Why do you think there are so many sects? They separate because of extremism.
Thank you. My sect is extremely adamant on not touching politics. I gain so much from going each week with no stress.
Giving away money stress free to a cult is not a flex
I don’t really donate as I’ve been laid off twice in the last year. They don’t care
True but most of them are not extremists.
"This is a coup."
The immunity ruling is part of a two-pronged power grab by the judiciary. The reversal of Chevron was more consequential, and if it had come second people would realize what the combo means. The judiciary said lower courts have to give broad presumption of immunity. But that just means the SC gave the heavily stacked appellate and supreme courts total control over whether a president can be prosecuted. Combined with “only the courts can say whether a regulation counts” they gave two decisions in a row that looked like rebalancing powers of the branches heavily in favor of one of the other two. But both gave the Supreme Court the ability to fuck anyone’s shit up if it doesn’t fall in line with Federalist Society horseshit.
All those "good Christians" throwing away the nation for a child rapist named Donald Trump...
He’s the anti-Christ and they are his disciples
Ironically, my mom was all about the "Left Behind" series and how we should be on alert and not fall for the "Nicholas Carpathia" when he comes. And yet! She's a total Magat now.
I wish we could have gotten the anti-Christ from “Good Omens” instead of mango mussolini
Kinda tracks that so many priests would support him tho
They were always gonna. Even the fucking Bible says it's "good Christians" that follow the Antichrist.
And all these hand ringing pansies, trying to throw Biden under the bus because he had a poor debate performance according to them. I thought he did great answering all the questions despite the bullshit that spewed incessantly from Trump‘s mouth.
If you want nuanced, illuminating, and intelligent exploration and explanation of history and its relevance to politics and our life today, you owe it to yourself to check out the writings of Heather Cox Richardson. I subscribe to her free newsletter, and it's one of very few emails that I happily open.
I would seriously have died already without her!
Right, I start every day with her daily letter. It covers important events that don't make most news outlets, and provides a great historical perspective. I recommend it often.
Her writing, research and perspective are truly incredible.
Same, but I wouldn't say I 'happily' open them!
I have subscribed for over a year and forward it to 14 people. I sent today’s letter to Elise Stefanik - I hoped maybe a Harvard educated historian might help her see the error of her traitorous ways. I’m sure she filed it with all my letters & emails for when they come to take me to the camps she’s so worried about…
I used to read her stuff from time to time, until I read something from her on a subject I’m much more familiar than her, and was shocked at how wrong she was. Now I don’t really trust anything she puts out
Care to elaborate?
I’ll try and go back and find it, but it was related to tax law, the TCJA, and the Inflation Reduction Act. Pretty much everything she said about the topic was incorrect, and it was pretty clear she was just googling to try and get an understanding After that, I can’t really trust her on other topics that aren’t directly related to her background
Ah, okay. I do believe she’s open and appreciative of being corrected. If what she wrote was factually incorrect, she would want to fix it.
I can't believe that people thought January 6 wasn't a sign of a dictator.
They did and do. His cult ACTIVELY WANTS A DICTATOR. They are practically begging for it. They don't know what America is and they don't care.
Newt. He still is a major scum bag.
He really set the primary trait of modern conservatism in stone - hypocrisy. He rallies the republicans to impeach a man who had an affair, while he himself was having an affair. It’s so infuriating.
The framers of the constitution wrote that they built the republic on a foundation of virtue. They expected it to collapse as soon as kindness, goodness, honesty, integrity, love, etc..., but primarily the virtue of placing the public good above one's self interest, slipped from where it was at the time. Adams writes that commerce corrupts, working its way above selflessness to corrupt personal relationships as well as the nation. They seemed disappointed that they couldn't come up with a system that didn't require virtuous people to participate in good faith, but, report that they did their best. And, they were terrified of the alternative. For example, Washington would have just retired after the war, or his 1st term if he thought he could farm for a while without being interrupted by the sudden and rapid decline of the republic in less-virtuous hands. When he warns of political parties, the hinge is that they introduce opportunities for a degradation of virtues, a chance for people to elevate their self interest and narrow-mindedness, with people placing single issues, even valid ones, above the republic. And, none of them were particularly virtuous. But, they were serious about getting the constitution to work, considered it very carefully over a comparatively long period of discussion, and participated in good faith. And, they were generally pretty humble about their own extensive failings and shortcomings in the process and in their personal lives. And, that humility and persistence really paid off. And, maybe they were just lucky to get leaders who were as virtuous as they were. If there is a way to maintain a republic through a spell of morally corrupt people who place their self-interest above the common good, then we'd better find it soon.
This is very much a main point made in Tyranny of the Minority a book I have mentioned far too many times already on Reddit. A big point of theirs is that American politics was based on norms rather than political hard balling. It was based on politicians restraining themselves like reserving the filibuster for only extreme cases, not using political pardons for personal gain and such. Without those norms our constitution may not be strong enough to allow for a functioning democracy. Only one party is restrained in the use of their political power and it certainly isn't the one trying to overthrow democracy.
Good read appreciate u sharing that
White Americans have never been here
Important comment. I try to remember my privilege... It struck home when I read somewhere that "climate anxiety" is largely a white phenomenon. Like, marginalized groups around the world and in the USA for GENERATIONS have known - not suspected, but known - that their future is dangerous and uncertain. Duh. Or my friend in FL who, when I complained about the political drama on Facebook, said, "My family is from Haiti, we're just laughing at all this. Let me know when they're up there with machetes." So yeah, this is bad. Mega bad. And also, not novel in every sense of the word.
That family is just spewing the relative privation fallacy. It does not matter that things are materially worse in Haiti or Sudan. People “laughing” about it because it’s worse in another country is a pathetic response. This is a very serious moment for the U.S. and people just hand-waiving it like this is part of the reason we’re in this mess. That laughing family probably won’t vote. I hope others do take it seriously, vote, and never try to convince others that it’s no big deal.
I feel like a broken record at this point because I've recommend this book so much but Tyranny of the Minority had a really good chapter about how southern Democrats turn the south into a dictatorship towards blacks after the civil war. When southern Democrats realised that blacks can now vote them out they used all sorts of political tactics to stay in power, some tactics currently being used by Republicans today.
As a non American, it's pretty crazy seeing all the pro America, July the 4th freedom posts on Twitter today. I didnt want to ruin peoples fun but really wanted to tell people your country literally became an autocracy over night, the goons just havent been put on the board yet.
No celebrating from me, I can assure you. And to the a-holes still shooting off fireworks at midnight, go to sleep!
How does impeachment work if the president has immunity??
Because everything comes down to perspective and judgement. Who has the final say? SCOTUS. They made *themselves* king
It works the same, the balance of power within government did not change. Presidents can be removed from office. The question of how to prosecute a former president was answered for the first time ever. Turns out - it’s not easy.
Yeah we may need to arm ourselves.
I’ve never wanted a gun, but that message from the Heritage Foundation really has me worried.
We gotta stick together.
What message?
“We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless—if the left allows it to be,”
Well that is terrifying. CIA needs to go after these evil ones
The CIA has no power within the US. You are thinking of the FBI and DHS.
And CNN is "helping" by reporting nonsense stories like, "Biden privately wants to give up" and "Biden decides he needs to go to bed by 8pm." After they help Trump back into office, I hope they're happy because they're one of the first news media outlets that Trump is going to put behind bars.
👆 THIS. We can all agree the debate was a debacle… for both sides. And yet, (once again) tRump gets a free pass for all his lies and deflection as news media goes after Biden. And if I hear one more democratic moron saying “well I am just not gonna vote”… YOU are contributing to the demise of any democracy as well.
Yep
Thank you, OP. I can’t tell you how much it means to have my thoughts and feelings confirmed.
America was here as a country, under King George.
The American DREAM is nothing more than a European fantasy.
So if the president is above the law but also “all men are created equal!”…… does that make me above the law?
Why is this called Trump immunity? Based on the laws, this ruling applies to ANY President. Why can’t the Biden camp use it to their advantage? Why, because they’re fearful they’ll be called ‘political’. No, let’s wait for the GOP to be the first to abuse this power. Biden could/should be throwing Trump’s ass in jail for high treason!!! Get some balls, Democrats!
Because the Supreme Court (who is majority republican appointed, three of whom were appointed by Trump) gets to decide what is official and immune. Trump gets a free pass. Biden will be stopped in his tracks.
Heather Cox Richardson is a badass. For years she has written daily essays to document current events, and the history behind these events. She is one of the only reasons I keep my Facebook account active
Great video. Thanks for posting, I do have a quibble though. The historian claims that the voters have spoken, by casting their votes for Biden in the primary. And that’s a bit disingenuous. If the D’s had had an open primary, with their best electoral college talent running… There’s no evidence Biden would have garnered the most votes. Personally, I think it’s fair to say he wouldn’t have. Also the analogue to 1968 and that switching candidates doesn’t work… that’s also a bit disingenuous. The D’s would have won that election easily if Sirhan Sirhan didn’t kill RFK. Just wanted to chime in that the history of an unpopular 1 term president stepping down and making way for another candidate from his party to run… is not this “historically proven to fail” concept. And, again just me personally, I think it’s a an intelligent tactic if a party’s goal is, solely, winning the presidency. If that’s a party’s goal… there will be plenty of historical evidence that it is a - necessary - tactic (if it’s allowed to play out and that data established).
Who do you think could have gotten nominated instead? Does seem like we should have also had two whole younger generations of candidates from which to choose.
Honestly not sure who would have emerged from that. One of the popular governors, I imagine… Im have at least a degree of skepticism that it would have been Biden though.
The DNC deserves some criticism for not doing a great job of nurturing talent. But there's also criticism to be leveled at candidates who seem to think running for president right out of the gate (and then flaming out) is the way. Beto actually said God wanted him to run for president for Pete's sake. The democrats need to make it part of their platform that yes, you have to work your way up. Being president requires experience (as both Obama and Trump demonstrated, in very different ways). But some portion of the party will see that as them saying, "Wait your turn" instead of it just matching reality: no AOC is not yet ready to be president as awesome as she is and if she does work her way up, she'll be a masterful politician who can get progressive initiatives passed. When you get an inexperienced candidate in office, you turn off democrats because nothing gets done. (Republicans don't care, they see having a seat warmer who does nothing as better than having a democrat.) Had Bernie won either of the times he ran, the pendulum swing would have been worse than Obama (ineffective) to Trump (evil) because people were far more excited about Bernie and he'd made far more specific promises, but republican voters would have seen to it that Bernie couldn't get anything done. Without better civics education, it's virtually impossible to sell the idea of finding a candidate you think is a good person with a good platform who will be able to do what's necessary to negotiate with the other side to get their policies enacted. But that's what we all need to be doing on both a local and national level -- finding good people with good ideas with the experience to make it happen. Or maybe Biden should just set an alarm for 2 a.m. and go live on the 'gram then. Simply say something like, "Remember when that other guy would post from the shitter at 2 a.m.? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Sleep well, America. Dark Brandon Out." Memeing seems to be the only thing that matters these days anyway, right y'all?
The Supreme Court of the United States found in Nixon v. Fitzgerald (1982) that the president has absolute immunity from civil damages actions regarding conduct within the "outer perimeter" of their duties. However, in Clinton v. Jones (1997), the court ruled against temporary immunity for sitting presidents from suits arising from pre-presidency conduct. Some scholars have suggested an immunity from arrest and criminal prosecution as well, a view which has become the practice of the Department of Justice under a pair of memoranda (1973 and 2000) from the Office of Legal Counsel. Presidents Richard Nixon, Bill Clinton, and Donald Trump were criminally investigated while in office, but none were prosecuted while still in office.[b] In February 2024, former President Trump claimed absolute immunity from being investigated for any crimes committed while in office. The Supreme Court ruled in Trump v. United States (2024) that presidents have absolute criminal immunity for official acts under core constitutional powers, presumptive immunity for other official acts, and no immunity for personal actions.[5][6] -wikipedia
Legal Eagle covered it in his recent video. He is normally not hyperbolic or click baity. The entire video is him explaining legally how absolutely screwed this is.
DR Cox-Richardson is THE BEST informed and factual source on the current political, economic, and judicial goings-on I have found. Been following her on SM for years. Definitely recommend her facebook or substack. Daily updates. Historical perspective. Good stuff!!
This ruling is the best thing to happen to the US. This ruling affirms AG Holders ruling in 2014 that President Obama can perform Non Judicial killing of American Citizens without due process and the President has full immunity. Thank you SCOTUS!!!!!!
this many people have never been alive at once people have never been this rich capitalism has never been this late-stage with this much power to destroy, employ, and exploit the examples we have in the past of empires that reached similar levels of technology, population, and consumption *did not do well* in the long-run. they collapsed and their enemies picked their corpse dry for another empire to rise from the ashes, usually a little bit down the road because of the dead empire's polluted waters and exhausted fields. what you can do? enegage in your community. join community organizations and local government. Build community gardens. Join the PTA. Call your congressman, reps, and senators. Make art, make it public. Educate your elders who are still voting. Tell them why you're scared. Help people who have less than you do. Be kind, be kind, be kind.
Eh... if it's whether or not democracy is at stake, people have thought that a few times in the past as well. As was recently asked on r/askhistorians. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/xVSwqAj0W1
Does this historian not know of the many insurrections this country has had
To the people who are acting like this is something new that was carved out specifically for Donald Trump might I remind you that: -Lincoln started a war with American citizens killing 600,000+ -Roosevelt put Japanese American citizens in internment camps -Truman dropped nuclear weapons on civilians -Polk, McKinley, Wilson, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2 & Obama invaded sovereign countries -Obama ordered extrajudicial drone strikes on american citizens All of these presidents were immune from prosecution for these heinous acts and never faced any accountability or consequences for their actions. Spare me your outrage over Trump and SCOTUS's decision; It's nothing new.
This is nonsense. "Not charged with crimes" is not the same as having immunity. Presidents could have been charged with crimes, but none ever were until Trump. But SCOTUS made up this immunity rule to retroactively protect Trump and sets up presidents to be kings. Also, Lincoln didn't start the Civil War, the South did (South Carolina specifically). This is just a straight up white supremacist viewpoint to act like Lincoln was the criminal, not the enslavers of the South.
"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." -Abraham Lincoln Like I said... Spare me your outrage.
oH oK! They did criminal things but weren't "charged", I see now. I award you the gold medal in mental gymnastics.