i refuse to believe people who make these memes played previous games, there is no way they have only now noticed the camera problem. You can google reddit posts about the camera problems from ds1 era
I fully agree - some god awful ones like Royal Rat Authority come to mind.
But I would say that as the games get faster small things like having visibility issues (particular effects and camera fuckery) become more and more impactful
Yeah, the camera issues with a slow moving enemy with maybe one jump attack are manageable; the camera issues with divine beast constantly having a seizure over and across the arena make it near impossible to tell what's going on
Dude it’s like Rockstar and their default controller scheme. Everyone has been complaining about these things forever and they’re such simple fixes, I can’t believe they still choose to do it this way.
Sekiro already made visual obstructions become transparent, and Ludwig from BB and Rykard from ER zoom out the camera. Fromsoft just needs to actually use these features they already made.
It's the issue with being unable to see wtf large bosses are doing (and with the lock-on point whipping around a huge amount relative to the size of the screen).
The walls thing would also have to be addressed for sure, but it's not as though that hasn't been addressed by plenty of games.
Either make the walls transparent, or when the player is pinned against the wall, turn the camera around so its facing the player character's face (with a good fov)
No no no we can’t have the camera suddenly turning when we hit a wall. If I’m backing up and suddenly get my camera turned around either my controls go with it and I get hit by whatever I was trying to avoid or my controls stay the same and until I can get out of the corner I’m playing backwards. No winning in that scenario.
Imo it's probably the fact Elden ring made the souls series much more Mainstream in the sense It hit a massive audience, even those who weren't really "Souls fans"
Although. It does seem like extreme negativity with complaint's is more common in the Elden ring community
I once spent about 5 hours helping a host beat Nameless King (NG+8, SL11, it was a whole thing), it is a major memory of DS3 for me, but to this day, I barely remember the chicken portion. Every memory pretty much starts at Nameless King. Chicken phase is not memorable for any good reason beyond “holy fuck, Nameless King really sat there on the overgrown bird while I fuce-facked him”, and “stupid fucking camera” is the main memory at all from phase 1
If you play freeaim, the camera is actually worse in ER compared to older souls games because you can outrun it and it fucks with your controls for some reason when your character is at the edge of the camera. Older Souls games, this wasn't an issue (at least for freeaim)
A streamer I used to watch had a soundboard button for every time the DS1-3 camera fucked him, or a spell missed a stationary target, that just said “Thanks, Lock-on!”
I think it was his most used soundboard button.
Boss rush wouldn't fit ER but Bonfire Ascetics absolutely would, it's perfect for a game like ER.
Boss rush works so well when there's no build variety or even weapon variety and it never got DLC so it's probably their way of making that up
They were already zooming it out in DS3. Even with the first boss Ludix Gundyr they zoom it out a bit as he transitions into the second phase. Heck, it goes even further back, they zoomed out camera in Bloodborne DLC, for example during Ludwig's second phase.
I'm pretty sure it actually does, I was very surprised looking back on dancing lion footage to see that it does at times
But never when you really need it
It baffles me that Super Mario 64 came out in 1996, and we are still battling that idiot Lakitu whenever our character gets too friendly with a piece of architecture.
You'd think in nearly 30 years someone would've come up with a better way.
There isn't a better way, as long as we want to maintain third person, over the shoulder cameras. First person and isometric cameras are a solution, but that's a pretty fundamental design difference, not just a camera difference.
Just started replaying DS3 and I died more times because the camera decided it wanted to go up my characters asshole because I got close to a wall! I don’t remember having issues with the camera until I replay them then realize “Oh yea, the camera was always a boss in and of itself.”
The camera problem has existed throughout the whole series but it was nowhere near as bad in practice because in the earlier games bosses were less mobile and didn't usually take up the whole screen. Now, fuckhueg bosses doing olympic gymnastics routines are the norm, and Fromsoft refuses to rework the camera tech to actually keep up with how fast they want the game to be.
Bro, the cam with that boss is insane. Is like: why are you moving up and down, just stay still, I don't even have to see the boss, I just don't have to puke!!!
demons souls fans are hardcore jerkers they hate the best version of their game *because* it doesn’t look like a colostomy bag and runs at more than 5 frames a minute
I'm far from a demons souls circle jerker, but I do dislike the removal of some of the atmosphere of the original game, especially with the changes to the musical score. It really does affect the way the game feels. I don't think it's all just nostalgia and "remake bad" doing that.
yeah i agree to a certain extent; not necessarily on the music but on a lot of small changes made. it’s still not like, the end of the world though. i think people entirely overstate how much the tone of the game is changed. tower of latria and valley of defilement are like, literally 99% identical and are definitely the most true to the original areas, yet they are the ones i see bashed the most. there are valid criticisms and all that but the pure hate and vitriol for the remake that comes from the true jerkers is 100% the result of dozens of pairs of extra strength prescription rose tinted glasses. it’s still the best way to play the game, i’d even put it above rspc3 for the load times and stockpile thomas rework alone.
Absolutely, it is overly hated. Dark Souls Remastered is probably in a similar boat, but hated moreso because they didn't change enough for some people. It's the same game but with password summons and a new bonfire in the catacombs.
Ngl being one of the many people who discovered AC after the Soulslikes,i was genuinely shocked to learn that Patches's 1st appearance was actually in AC For Answer
First time he was called that name, but he has been around longer than that (at least his character archetype). Dude was in Shadow Tower Abyss and was still a lying pos trying to trick you
Ahh and eldritch sort of space creature enjoyer! Not particularly my thing, much more into beasts myself but all monsters deserve to have a group of loyal fuckers
Honestly, I preferred it that way. I like the slower, more methodical fights from Dark Souls 1. It felt like a good balance to match the player having to work with their own slow and rigid movements.
They did improve player mobility in Dark Souls 3, and they improved it even more in Elden Ring, so it makes sense to improve boss mobility as well, but the ratio just doesn't feel as in sync like it did back in the Demon/Dark Souls 1 days.
Same. Ds1 and 2 are really addictive and hard to put down for me, because every time I die I can see exactly what I did wrong, often before the death even occurs.
In Elden Ring a lot of fights I see a blur of particle effects and movement and then am dead. Bosses are visually overwhelming and john eldenring hasn’t changed much from player movement and attacks in DS1.
Before anyone says nostalgia, I played ER first, before working my way back through the series.
If they kept it like that, the series would have died out long ago. If you played Elden Ring first you shouldn't get hit by very much. Most attacks have a rather clear telegraph, and since bosses have very few attacks you learn them very quickly. I love Dark Souls to death, but playing the Remastered version made me realize how far we've come. I think I died less than 10 times in the Remaster. Dark Souls was a great foundation that I am beyond grateful they built upon.
Personally I think Elden’s Ring original sin was the fact that From seemed to try and compromise on having ER have fast pace Sekiro-esque elements combined with Dark Souls standard gameplay.
I honestly think ER would’ve been truly perfect if From had chosen one or another instead of the compromise they had here
i think what he meant was "input buffering" and what you meant was "attack delay"
input delay is when there is a delay between you pressing a button and the action appearing on your screen
There is a good .25-5 sec delay in every action starting. When moves have small telegraphs and are extremely fast with strong tracking that absolutely matters. Plus adding onto the buffering it adds another half second
>but the ratio just doesn't feel as in sync like it did back in the Demon/Dark Souls 1 days.
You mean bosses launching themselves from one side of the arena to the other 5 times in a row doesn't match my character's sprinting and rolling capabilities?
I thoroughly enjoyed Elden Ring, but this DLC is making me realize how much fromsoft is relying on hypermobility and unstaggerable 10+ attack combos to add difficulty to the bosses.
Up the damage and kill me in one hit for all I care, just please stop fucking running away from me in gigantic boss arenas.
Try lies of P, after every combo you have a big enough window to hit a fully charged heavy and the parry mechanic is very rewarding. I love the flow of combat in that game
The people who complain about Elden Ring enemy combos would get an aneurysm with LoP's 20-hit, no windup, unnatural delay, trial-and-error type enemy combos. I'm just saying Swamp Monster and Laxasia. I love it, but if someone complains about ER and prefers old souls combat LoP is not the game for them
The only huge amazing monsters in elden ring are dragons and if you actually lock onto their heads and only attack there it’s pretty cinematic. Barely even have to look at the toes.
I try to delock sometimes but it's too much work for me. I can't handle my heal, my rolls and the camera with a single thumb. I do unlock the camera in specific instances, like the Elden Beast breath where it gets freaky, but that's about it.
Yeah if you're going to play unlocked on the sticks you really want to be using the claw grip(middle finger on R1/R2, index finger on the face buttons and thumb on the right thumbstick) so you can hit the buttons while moving the camera.
Unlocked combat is the one place where mouse and keyboard is actually more comfortable because of how much better mouselook is than the analog stick for panning/tracking.
I’d rather just deal with the occasional camera bs tbh. Some of my weapons have pretty skinny hitboxes and I’d rather have lock on point me the right way so I can focus on other stuff like getting my ass out of a corner
For stuff like margits staff attack I get the complaints, he holds it for a year and a half lol. But I’ve seen complaints about messmers floor scraping spear attack. Like the thing is delayed the least amount of time possible while still being a delayed hit.
A lot of delayed attacks are opportunities in disguise. Like on both examples mentioned, you can run around to their backs and get a good opening for a charged heavy
Yeah, depending on your positioning you don't even have to dodge that attack, just slightly move to the side and keep attacking him for a lot of free damage.
Midra has some attacks similar to it that are so stupidly easy to punish too.
Yeah, I far prefer Elden ring delays to lies of P. I feel like in P you just have to memorize the timing. You can do that in Elden ring to, but the delays are at least followed by attacks you can react to
Lies of P drove me up the fuckin wall with delayed, unreactable red attacks that you will eat every time until you learn the perfect parry timing. I side-eye anyone who says "now Lies of P, that's a fair soulslike unlike newer From games".
I finished Lies of P just in time for the release of the ER DLC. I liked it but that game was made for people with clairvoyance, like 95% of the combo must be perfectly memorized or else you're better off rolling or eating the red moves.
If the combat system wasn't crippled by this questionable design choice, ruining some very cool bosses, the game would be much much better.
But in the first one he is accepting that it's his mistake, while in the latter he's blaming the game.
Ofc we all panic roll into delayed attacks, because that's their purpose, to feint us
HEY! Not so fast, buddy! Dont you dare make fun of my Elden Ring!!!!
The camera was already shit in the Dark Souls games, it just got slightly worse. Bitch.
Elden ring is a faster paced game with larger arenas, longer and more dynamic attack strings, and more fluid enemy design. The camera system in DS already had flaws but it has been highlighted through the boss design of ER.
This. The issue is the discongruence between their boss design (both the visual clutter and movesets) and older aspects of things that haven’t been changed much since Demon’s Souls.
People are just forgetting ds1 capra demon in the smallest room possible with 2 dogs , and moonlight butterfly shitty gimmick boss in a tight ass bridge , bed of chaos,ceaseless discharge is just running back and killing the boss in 5 hits, stray demon and fire sage demon hitting you with a huge ass explosion with one swipe (unless you make them spam same one buttslam)
Capra is an easy fight after the first few times. Run up to the wall, kill the dogs chasing you, then it's just one slow demon in what feels like a substantially bigger space.
the people who bitch like this havent actually learned how to play elden ring its definitely not free from critisism theres a lot fucked about it but the camera is no worse than it used to be and you've always gotten punished for staying locked on 24/7 since thats a stupid thing to do.
The problem is that the camera works basically the same way, but bosses are substantially more mobile than they used to be and are just faster in general.
Sekiro is the only game that's come kinda close to solving the camera issues in my experience. And part of that is just not having many huge bosses.
like the second half of ds3 onwards started punishing spam rolling, 'souls veterans' somehow still continue to spam dodge they're actually ass. I can understand not liking delayed attacks but there's genuinely nothing unfair about them either.
You: I want better cameras so I can actually see how large bosses telegraph attacks.
Me: I want better cameras so I can CURSE YOU BAYLE! I HEREBY VOW! YOU WILL RUE THIS DAY! BEHOLD, A TRUE DRAKE WARRIOR! AND I, IGON! YOUR FEAR MADE FLESH! SOLID OF SCALE YOU MIGHT BE, FOUL DRAGON … BUT I WILL RIDDLE WITH HOLES YOUR ROTTEN HIDE! WITH A HAIL OF HARPOONS! WITH EVERY LAST DROP OF MY BEING!
The only one of those below that is valid is the stun lock combo, and there are moves that is too hard to even dodge, I don't these things are fair, but besides that, it's basically ok.
I've replayed DS3, and it def zoomes out more (and better) than it does in ER.
Plus, ER has a lot of big bosses, bigger than many of DS3's (somehow faster aswell).
me when I get stunlocked upon entering the 2 square foot capra demon boss room by two random dogs and the actual 'boss' itself and killed immediately.
me when the third asylum demon clone hits me with the delayed lingering aoe explosion for the fifteenth time.
me trying to swat kalameet's legs while the camera has a panic attack whenever he raises his head more than a centimetre
me having a long an fulfilling life, getting married, having kids, succeeding in my career and then dying surrounded by loved ones in the time it takes for manus to finish his gorilla combo.
such a shame they don't make bosses like that anymore. only cringe shit like messmer and midra
No fuckin way lmao, delayed attacks and camera issues with large bosses have existed since fucking Demon's Souls
Like if you're gonna complain about shit in Elden Ring you better make damn sure those same complaints can't be applied to the other games too
Mf acting like DS1 didn't have shit hitboxes. Oh sure, it's called "lingering hitbox" and it's due to the shockwave, sure, it's totally intentional and very fair. Sure, I've been hit because I need to git gud, the game is flawless. And don't get me started on grab attacks
Ceaseless Discharge can also be a pain in the ass if you want to fight them legitimately. His attacks are slow and easy to see, but they have some of the most broken-ass hitboxes I've ever seen.
Wait isn't the last one a complaint since the beginning of the series? Like didn't people say the same thing while fighting Nameless king and Medir or am I misremembering?
me when dying to the capra demon and his dogs because the fog wall hasn’t dissipated yet vs. me when i don’t dodge the bosses attack because im summoning a whole other version of me for the fight to trivialize it
Dark souls 1 also had bullshit bosses and camera issues. Do you not remember that boss in the narrow corridor with the 2 dogs? (forgot the name, but im sure you guys know)
Man i hate posts like this. One comment from a post i saw said how artorias and manus runied ds1 bosses and other games bosses. Really? You want every game to have bosses that only uses same 3 moves? At this point you are mentally a grandparent when it comes to souls games
The final boss is one thing. Every other DLC boss difficulty was greatly overhyped they’ve all been fun, challenging and fair in my experience. Legitimately a skill isssue if you keep getting bodied by Rellana
The amount of attacks from rellana that you can straight up straif makes it a bit easier….Plus this dlc wants you to be more aggressive AKA attacking when the bosses are in their combo strings instead of waiting an eternity for it to end
I’m gonna be real, nothing gets my blood boiling like getting stunlocked, in *any* game
But in a Souls game/Soulslike, I kinda *wanna* be pissed off, so I embrace it
I’m all here for a challenge, but stunlocks are probably my least favourite way to die, even over camera freak outs and VFX blindness. There’s literally nothing you can do about it. You just have to sit there and watch a one shot, but fancy cause it’s actually three attacks.
we aint gonna sit here and pretend the camera is only now an issue in these games
i refuse to believe people who make these memes played previous games, there is no way they have only now noticed the camera problem. You can google reddit posts about the camera problems from ds1 era
I fully agree - some god awful ones like Royal Rat Authority come to mind. But I would say that as the games get faster small things like having visibility issues (particular effects and camera fuckery) become more and more impactful
Yeah, the camera issues with a slow moving enemy with maybe one jump attack are manageable; the camera issues with divine beast constantly having a seizure over and across the arena make it near impossible to tell what's going on
Every dragon fight in Elden Ring be like (assuming your not using torrent.)
It's fine for normal dragons if you stay in front of them and hit their head. Wailing at their feet can fuck up the cam though
I dont think many, or any, bosses in elden ring come close to the abysmal dogshit that is the royal rat authority.
Yeah not even close lmao, that’s why it’s the example that stuck out to me
Dude it’s like Rockstar and their default controller scheme. Everyone has been complaining about these things forever and they’re such simple fixes, I can’t believe they still choose to do it this way.
Sekiro already made visual obstructions become transparent, and Ludwig from BB and Rykard from ER zoom out the camera. Fromsoft just needs to actually use these features they already made.
Yeah exactly. It really annoys me how some larger bosses have the camera zoom out but others don't even though the bosses are the same size.
What's the simple fix for the camera issues?
Move the camera back a few meters during fights with large bosses That’d already do a fair amount.
But that’s not the issue is it? The issue is how the camera interacts with walls. And this would make that much much worse.
It's the issue with being unable to see wtf large bosses are doing (and with the lock-on point whipping around a huge amount relative to the size of the screen). The walls thing would also have to be addressed for sure, but it's not as though that hasn't been addressed by plenty of games.
Either make the walls transparent, or when the player is pinned against the wall, turn the camera around so its facing the player character's face (with a good fov)
No no no we can’t have the camera suddenly turning when we hit a wall. If I’m backing up and suddenly get my camera turned around either my controls go with it and I get hit by whatever I was trying to avoid or my controls stay the same and until I can get out of the corner I’m playing backwards. No winning in that scenario.
Occasionally hit the button to unlock from the boss
Imo it's probably the fact Elden ring made the souls series much more Mainstream in the sense It hit a massive audience, even those who weren't really "Souls fans" Although. It does seem like extreme negativity with complaint's is more common in the Elden ring community
I still suck at Nameless King phase 1 because I spend an eternity trying to find the bird lmao Phase 2 is a total non-issue comparatively.
I once spent about 5 hours helping a host beat Nameless King (NG+8, SL11, it was a whole thing), it is a major memory of DS3 for me, but to this day, I barely remember the chicken portion. Every memory pretty much starts at Nameless King. Chicken phase is not memorable for any good reason beyond “holy fuck, Nameless King really sat there on the overgrown bird while I fuce-facked him”, and “stupid fucking camera” is the main memory at all from phase 1
If you play freeaim, the camera is actually worse in ER compared to older souls games because you can outrun it and it fucks with your controls for some reason when your character is at the edge of the camera. Older Souls games, this wasn't an issue (at least for freeaim)
A streamer I used to watch had a soundboard button for every time the DS1-3 camera fucked him, or a spell missed a stationary target, that just said “Thanks, Lock-on!” I think it was his most used soundboard button.
I just don't get how they perfectly fixed that shit in sekiro only to never zoom out against boss fights ever again?
Same with the boss replay mode. Sekiro really did a lot of things right
Boss rush wouldn't fit ER but Bonfire Ascetics absolutely would, it's perfect for a game like ER. Boss rush works so well when there's no build variety or even weapon variety and it never got DLC so it's probably their way of making that up
Boss rush, or similar, works in Code Vein. That has build and weapon variety
But... you could just use your build that you use in the save file for the boss rush... Wtf do you mean?
They were already zooming it out in DS3. Even with the first boss Ludix Gundyr they zoom it out a bit as he transitions into the second phase. Heck, it goes even further back, they zoomed out camera in Bloodborne DLC, for example during Ludwig's second phase.
I'm pretty sure it actually does, I was very surprised looking back on dancing lion footage to see that it does at times But never when you really need it
It baffles me that Super Mario 64 came out in 1996, and we are still battling that idiot Lakitu whenever our character gets too friendly with a piece of architecture. You'd think in nearly 30 years someone would've come up with a better way.
it's just the nature of 3rd person video games honestly
It's almost like we went 30 years without "coming up with a better way" because it's a hard problem to solve
There isn't a better way, as long as we want to maintain third person, over the shoulder cameras. First person and isometric cameras are a solution, but that's a pretty fundamental design difference, not just a camera difference.
Back then I played the original Dark Souls with Keyboard & Mouse, without the camera fix. In comparison the ER camera is a thing of beauty.
first phase nameless king camera had me so unbelievably tilted
Just started replaying DS3 and I died more times because the camera decided it wanted to go up my characters asshole because I got close to a wall! I don’t remember having issues with the camera until I replay them then realize “Oh yea, the camera was always a boss in and of itself.”
The camera problem has existed throughout the whole series but it was nowhere near as bad in practice because in the earlier games bosses were less mobile and didn't usually take up the whole screen. Now, fuckhueg bosses doing olympic gymnastics routines are the norm, and Fromsoft refuses to rework the camera tech to actually keep up with how fast they want the game to be.
Someone here never found Nameless King's first phase
Bro, the cam with that boss is insane. Is like: why are you moving up and down, just stay still, I don't even have to see the boss, I just don't have to puke!!!
Demons Souls Chad: Another boss with bullshit gimmick. Excellent
Demons souls chad: its actually way better than people make it out to be, unless you like the bad one then you deserve death
demons souls fans are hardcore jerkers they hate the best version of their game *because* it doesn’t look like a colostomy bag and runs at more than 5 frames a minute
I'm far from a demons souls circle jerker, but I do dislike the removal of some of the atmosphere of the original game, especially with the changes to the musical score. It really does affect the way the game feels. I don't think it's all just nostalgia and "remake bad" doing that.
yeah i agree to a certain extent; not necessarily on the music but on a lot of small changes made. it’s still not like, the end of the world though. i think people entirely overstate how much the tone of the game is changed. tower of latria and valley of defilement are like, literally 99% identical and are definitely the most true to the original areas, yet they are the ones i see bashed the most. there are valid criticisms and all that but the pure hate and vitriol for the remake that comes from the true jerkers is 100% the result of dozens of pairs of extra strength prescription rose tinted glasses. it’s still the best way to play the game, i’d even put it above rspc3 for the load times and stockpile thomas rework alone.
Absolutely, it is overly hated. Dark Souls Remastered is probably in a similar boat, but hated moreso because they didn't change enough for some people. It's the same game but with password summons and a new bonfire in the catacombs.
Elden ring has messmer therefore it's better All the FromSoft games sucks because they are made by FromSoft
Except Armored Peak 6 because it has Rusty
Yeah buddy, rollin' like a big shot, AC tuned up like a Redgun pit stop!
Rusty is in the top 10 best Fromsoft boys for me
This is why Patches is so great, his first appearance was as an AC pilot.
Ngl being one of the many people who discovered AC after the Soulslikes,i was genuinely shocked to learn that Patches's 1st appearance was actually in AC For Answer
First time he was called that name, but he has been around longer than that (at least his character archetype). Dude was in Shadow Tower Abyss and was still a lying pos trying to trick you
I think you mean Chatty, the true goat.
what I do is I just say “okay.” That’s it. Nothing else. Easiest way to not get tilted.
you can also turn the game off and do something else
That is true, sometimes I turn it off and watch meme videos or jack off to bbw Vicar Amelia like a true Fromsoft fan
Almost forgot I was on this damned sub
Nah I post like this everywhere
Hell yeah bother! Although I’m more on the Ebritas side of things myself
Ahh and eldritch sort of space creature enjoyer! Not particularly my thing, much more into beasts myself but all monsters deserve to have a group of loyal fuckers
Attack pattern in Dark Souls 1? You mean the 3 total moves the bosses have?
TRUE
Honestly, I preferred it that way. I like the slower, more methodical fights from Dark Souls 1. It felt like a good balance to match the player having to work with their own slow and rigid movements. They did improve player mobility in Dark Souls 3, and they improved it even more in Elden Ring, so it makes sense to improve boss mobility as well, but the ratio just doesn't feel as in sync like it did back in the Demon/Dark Souls 1 days.
Same. Ds1 and 2 are really addictive and hard to put down for me, because every time I die I can see exactly what I did wrong, often before the death even occurs. In Elden Ring a lot of fights I see a blur of particle effects and movement and then am dead. Bosses are visually overwhelming and john eldenring hasn’t changed much from player movement and attacks in DS1. Before anyone says nostalgia, I played ER first, before working my way back through the series.
If they kept it like that, the series would have died out long ago. If you played Elden Ring first you shouldn't get hit by very much. Most attacks have a rather clear telegraph, and since bosses have very few attacks you learn them very quickly. I love Dark Souls to death, but playing the Remastered version made me realize how far we've come. I think I died less than 10 times in the Remaster. Dark Souls was a great foundation that I am beyond grateful they built upon.
Personally I think Elden’s Ring original sin was the fact that From seemed to try and compromise on having ER have fast pace Sekiro-esque elements combined with Dark Souls standard gameplay. I honestly think ER would’ve been truly perfect if From had chosen one or another instead of the compromise they had here
The way they improved mobility in elden ring was making the jump not dogshit and adding input delay
The input delay infuriates me sometimes, its like you have to predict when an attack is coming rather than react to it
i think what he meant was "input buffering" and what you meant was "attack delay" input delay is when there is a delay between you pressing a button and the action appearing on your screen
There is a good .25-5 sec delay in every action starting. When moves have small telegraphs and are extremely fast with strong tracking that absolutely matters. Plus adding onto the buffering it adds another half second
Nah I got it confused with weapon animation recoveries, sometimes they do feel like input delay
>but the ratio just doesn't feel as in sync like it did back in the Demon/Dark Souls 1 days. You mean bosses launching themselves from one side of the arena to the other 5 times in a row doesn't match my character's sprinting and rolling capabilities? I thoroughly enjoyed Elden Ring, but this DLC is making me realize how much fromsoft is relying on hypermobility and unstaggerable 10+ attack combos to add difficulty to the bosses. Up the damage and kill me in one hit for all I care, just please stop fucking running away from me in gigantic boss arenas.
Try lies of P, after every combo you have a big enough window to hit a fully charged heavy and the parry mechanic is very rewarding. I love the flow of combat in that game
The people who complain about Elden Ring enemy combos would get an aneurysm with LoP's 20-hit, no windup, unnatural delay, trial-and-error type enemy combos. I'm just saying Swamp Monster and Laxasia. I love it, but if someone complains about ER and prefers old souls combat LoP is not the game for them
nah that camera one is valid, the camera in these games is dogshit
Once fromsoft update their camera logic in future games, the difficulty will drop significantly.
I don't get if this meme is making fun of sOuLs VeTeRaNs, or is it advocating for them
one could argue good trolling is supposed to hit a sweet spot of ambiguity
People forgot these were intended for joy and not to spark 300 comment long arguments lmao
Ancient Dragon Senessax: What about all of the above?
I straight up skipped him, not worth it
It astounds me that the lock non point for those dragons is so high up and mobile. At least let me switch lock on to a foot or something!
Am i one of the rare mfs that doesnt lock on onto boss 24/7? Especially big one like dragon, giant, etc
I love fighting this huge amazing monsters and only being able to see their toes
You’re goddamn right I’m keeping my eyes locked on those grippers
Why midir is peak dragon fighting
I believe Bayle has taken that title now
Me when I lock on to Bayle and it shows me the inside of his abdomen while I'm trying to dodge
Bayle is peak cinematically, visually, and lore wise. I'm personally still more of a fan of midir mechanically but that's subjective
Kalameet will always be peak dragon fighting
I have to agree on this one but maybe nostalgia is blinding me
Kalameet was a blast Although....getting that tail cut would drive any one into madness Bloody worth it though
Or locking onto a dragons toes and somehow looking straight up
As Miyazaki intended
The only huge amazing monsters in elden ring are dragons and if you actually lock onto their heads and only attack there it’s pretty cinematic. Barely even have to look at the toes.
I try to delock sometimes but it's too much work for me. I can't handle my heal, my rolls and the camera with a single thumb. I do unlock the camera in specific instances, like the Elden Beast breath where it gets freaky, but that's about it.
Yeah if you're going to play unlocked on the sticks you really want to be using the claw grip(middle finger on R1/R2, index finger on the face buttons and thumb on the right thumbstick) so you can hit the buttons while moving the camera. Unlocked combat is the one place where mouse and keyboard is actually more comfortable because of how much better mouselook is than the analog stick for panning/tracking.
>Unlocks >Boss is highly mobile and moves faster then camera speed >Loses consistency in most hitbox porn situations
bosses in ER take flight and teleport around too much to play unlocked
I’d rather just deal with the occasional camera bs tbh. Some of my weapons have pretty skinny hitboxes and I’d rather have lock on point me the right way so I can focus on other stuff like getting my ass out of a corner
The *really* big boys, I won’t lock onto. I’ll go into Monster Hunter mode for those kinds of fights
All of their games have each row of these lol
Yup.. bc ds1 is known for having the best camera ever made 😂😂
This sub when a boss can't be killed by circling around it and waiting for him to attack like in 2011
peak souls 2 dragonrizzler duo
To be fair the big enemies are moreso a camera fight than unpredictable
Dude that was my favorite freaking tactic man. Screw From for taking it away
"Panic rolled into the hitbox" and "delayed attacks" sound awfully similar to me
I need to learn the boss' attack patterns but delayed attacks don't count those are bullshit
For stuff like margits staff attack I get the complaints, he holds it for a year and a half lol. But I’ve seen complaints about messmers floor scraping spear attack. Like the thing is delayed the least amount of time possible while still being a delayed hit.
A lot of delayed attacks are opportunities in disguise. Like on both examples mentioned, you can run around to their backs and get a good opening for a charged heavy
Yeah, depending on your positioning you don't even have to dodge that attack, just slightly move to the side and keep attacking him for a lot of free damage. Midra has some attacks similar to it that are so stupidly easy to punish too.
Lies of P was really bad for that too, game had a lot of unreactable delayed attacks. Margits is bad, but there’s a few frames before it hits.
Yeah, I far prefer Elden ring delays to lies of P. I feel like in P you just have to memorize the timing. You can do that in Elden ring to, but the delays are at least followed by attacks you can react to
Lies of P drove me up the fuckin wall with delayed, unreactable red attacks that you will eat every time until you learn the perfect parry timing. I side-eye anyone who says "now Lies of P, that's a fair soulslike unlike newer From games".
I finished Lies of P just in time for the release of the ER DLC. I liked it but that game was made for people with clairvoyance, like 95% of the combo must be perfectly memorized or else you're better off rolling or eating the red moves. If the combat system wasn't crippled by this questionable design choice, ruining some very cool bosses, the game would be much much better.
But in the first one he is accepting that it's his mistake, while in the latter he's blaming the game. Ofc we all panic roll into delayed attacks, because that's their purpose, to feint us
HEY! Not so fast, buddy! Dont you dare make fun of my Elden Ring!!!! The camera was already shit in the Dark Souls games, it just got slightly worse. Bitch.
Didn't even get worse imo, it's just been shit against large bosses since the dawn of time
Yep, if you fight Elden ring bosses like you fight any big boss in souls the camera works fine, just like it’s always been
I don’t see how it got worse than DS3 First phase Nameless King, Midir, Dancer, etc The camera in those fights is pure cancer
Acting like these problems are exclusive to Elden Ring is bonkers
Elden ring is a faster paced game with larger arenas, longer and more dynamic attack strings, and more fluid enemy design. The camera system in DS already had flaws but it has been highlighted through the boss design of ER.
This. The issue is the discongruence between their boss design (both the visual clutter and movesets) and older aspects of things that haven’t been changed much since Demon’s Souls.
Why are people pretending like delayed attacks are new in, or unique to Elden Ring??
there's literally way less of them in the dlc too
People are just forgetting ds1 capra demon in the smallest room possible with 2 dogs , and moonlight butterfly shitty gimmick boss in a tight ass bridge , bed of chaos,ceaseless discharge is just running back and killing the boss in 5 hits, stray demon and fire sage demon hitting you with a huge ass explosion with one swipe (unless you make them spam same one buttslam)
I forget Capra Demon because I always take the master key and skip all of that BS.
I always do the fight for souls before getting the first ember and unlocking the shortcut to the moss merchant.
Capra is an easy fight after the first few times. Run up to the wall, kill the dogs chasing you, then it's just one slow demon in what feels like a substantially bigger space.
the people who bitch like this havent actually learned how to play elden ring its definitely not free from critisism theres a lot fucked about it but the camera is no worse than it used to be and you've always gotten punished for staying locked on 24/7 since thats a stupid thing to do.
The problem is that the camera works basically the same way, but bosses are substantially more mobile than they used to be and are just faster in general. Sekiro is the only game that's come kinda close to solving the camera issues in my experience. And part of that is just not having many huge bosses.
>Delayed attacks For the love of fucking christ just don’t spam dodge roll
like the second half of ds3 onwards started punishing spam rolling, 'souls veterans' somehow still continue to spam dodge they're actually ass. I can understand not liking delayed attacks but there's genuinely nothing unfair about them either.
What boss stunlocks you outside the final DLC boss? And do any bosses have lingering AOE outside of Mohg? These feel very cherry picked
It’s literally the same mechanics as dark souls.
Don’t get that camera shit twisted a lot of bosses have bad arenas where the camera gets stuck in the wall
You must've not fought Manus if you think ER introduced stunlock combos.
mods rename the sub to r/shittyatdarksouls please
The unironic complaining has been crazy lol
We're really upvoting fucking chad and wojak memes again huh?
Delayed attack compliant is always laughable
The motherfuckers that complain about the camera never played DS3 or Bloodborne
I wouldn’t wish any man to know the eldritch horror of Camerabeast Paarl in the chalice dungeon
You: I want better cameras so I can actually see how large bosses telegraph attacks. Me: I want better cameras so I can CURSE YOU BAYLE! I HEREBY VOW! YOU WILL RUE THIS DAY! BEHOLD, A TRUE DRAKE WARRIOR! AND I, IGON! YOUR FEAR MADE FLESH! SOLID OF SCALE YOU MIGHT BE, FOUL DRAGON … BUT I WILL RIDDLE WITH HOLES YOUR ROTTEN HIDE! WITH A HAIL OF HARPOONS! WITH EVERY LAST DROP OF MY BEING!
The only one of those below that is valid is the stun lock combo, and there are moves that is too hard to even dodge, I don't these things are fair, but besides that, it's basically ok.
Whining aside: I'm 99% sure Elden Ring uses Dark Souls 3s camera. As in the **exact** same one with zero changes applied. Edit: I was wrong
I don’t know man. I just fought Vordt and it seemed like the camera zoomed out farther (in a good way) than it did for bosses 10x his size in ER.
I've replayed DS3, and it def zoomes out more (and better) than it does in ER. Plus, ER has a lot of big bosses, bigger than many of DS3's (somehow faster aswell).
https://preview.redd.it/sv04mz9u64ad1.jpeg?width=1116&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6455b7b8724928c017da927212317ffd055d97b
me when I get stunlocked upon entering the 2 square foot capra demon boss room by two random dogs and the actual 'boss' itself and killed immediately. me when the third asylum demon clone hits me with the delayed lingering aoe explosion for the fifteenth time. me trying to swat kalameet's legs while the camera has a panic attack whenever he raises his head more than a centimetre me having a long an fulfilling life, getting married, having kids, succeeding in my career and then dying surrounded by loved ones in the time it takes for manus to finish his gorilla combo. such a shame they don't make bosses like that anymore. only cringe shit like messmer and midra
The aoes in elden ring are so much easier to dodge too than the old games too, becauss of the jump button
Gud, git gud.
Top row still applies to ER, though
if you had the mentality from the top part you wouldn’t suck at ER
but have you tried getting good
Tried it. Too hard. Heavy attacks spam + stance break is much easier.
sounds like you got good to me
I don't think trading blows with the final boss until they die counts as getting good. But at the end of the day he's dead and I'm happy.
Then you are worthy of lordship, it’s just that simple!
Straight up misinformation. We all remember fighting the capra demon inside of a fucking shoebox with an angry dog on each of our testicles.
No fuckin way lmao, delayed attacks and camera issues with large bosses have existed since fucking Demon's Souls Like if you're gonna complain about shit in Elden Ring you better make damn sure those same complaints can't be applied to the other games too
It’s the same for every game. They are all fun to die in (unless it’s to a gank boss then it’s bullshit)
Mf acting like DS1 didn't have shit hitboxes. Oh sure, it's called "lingering hitbox" and it's due to the shockwave, sure, it's totally intentional and very fair. Sure, I've been hit because I need to git gud, the game is flawless. And don't get me started on grab attacks
https://preview.redd.it/9ok0gi32n8ad1.png?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8a8c85848f8435bb6353c837f43c89c9cb97297
Ah yes, because, as we all know, Dark Souls 1 has some VERY fair and forgiving bosses, where 95% of the time, the fault is on the player, right?
well most of the time bosses are afk in ds1 so yeah kinda
Yeah pretty much. The most unforgiving boss in ds1 is ornstein and smough, where you need to just run in circles around the room..
Ceaseless Discharge can also be a pain in the ass if you want to fight them legitimately. His attacks are slow and easy to see, but they have some of the most broken-ass hitboxes I've ever seen.
Both can be true ya know. I can suck dick while the game itself is also unbalanced.
Wait isn't the last one a complaint since the beginning of the series? Like didn't people say the same thing while fighting Nameless king and Medir or am I misremembering?
me when dying to the capra demon and his dogs because the fog wall hasn’t dissipated yet vs. me when i don’t dodge the bosses attack because im summoning a whole other version of me for the fight to trivialize it
Dark souls 1 also had bullshit bosses and camera issues. Do you not remember that boss in the narrow corridor with the 2 dogs? (forgot the name, but im sure you guys know)
Nameless King stage 1 is still to this day the worst camera boss fight. And yes, that makes me not like the second stage as much.
Me when bootlicking
“Delayed attacks” aka I didn’t remember the attack pattern
"delayed attacks" learn the attack pattern lol
Delayed attacks? Those are awesome, they make me brain harder and adda more variety to learn in a boss. Taught me to have patience and not panic roll
The camera is a valid issue. That purple ninja fuck in the hole outside Ashina Castle in Sekiro is the prime example.
Wow the bosses get more complex move sets as games go on, who would’ve guessed.
Man i hate posts like this. One comment from a post i saw said how artorias and manus runied ds1 bosses and other games bosses. Really? You want every game to have bosses that only uses same 3 moves? At this point you are mentally a grandparent when it comes to souls games
Bro what boss has lingering aoe in elden ring, that shits the dark souls special
ER bosses have it too, it’s just telegraphed better. Far less invisible hitboxes.
What’s the difference between “need to remember that attack pattern” and delayed attacks
I mean one of the hardest tricks from Des->BB, delayed timing in combos, gets used by the first mandatory boss in Elden Ring.
Gamer when change
The final boss is one thing. Every other DLC boss difficulty was greatly overhyped they’ve all been fun, challenging and fair in my experience. Legitimately a skill isssue if you keep getting bodied by Rellana
The amount of attacks from rellana that you can straight up straif makes it a bit easier….Plus this dlc wants you to be more aggressive AKA attacking when the bosses are in their combo strings instead of waiting an eternity for it to end
That was also the case in the base game. The whole "waiting your turn" thing has always been exaggeration at best.
Add must be underleveled down
Op forgot about bed of chaos
I throw my hands in the air and curse Miyazaki like I’m a cartoon villain before trying again
What boss was it that made your camera spin 360° when you dodge one of it's attacks right in their face? I think it was in DS3 or maybe Bloodborne.
indomitable human spirit versus constantly downcast defeated mindset!
All of these issues are interchangeable
Its always a good thing when you realize your own mistake and get better rather than raging (idk where I'm going with this comment)
Delayed attacks is the dumbest thing to complain about
I’m gonna be real, nothing gets my blood boiling like getting stunlocked, in *any* game But in a Souls game/Soulslike, I kinda *wanna* be pissed off, so I embrace it
I’m all here for a challenge, but stunlocks are probably my least favourite way to die, even over camera freak outs and VFX blindness. There’s literally nothing you can do about it. You just have to sit there and watch a one shot, but fancy cause it’s actually three attacks.