Well... Not with Taylor, but Paul Tierney has been consistently fucking Liverpool and he still got assigned Liverpool games despite Klopp's consistent clear complain about him.
So probably never? Taylor will still get Chelsea games.
If Anthony Taylor has a million haters, I am one of them. If Anthony Taylor has ten haters, I am one of them. If Anthony Taylor has only one hater, that is me. If Anthony Taylor has no haters, I no longer exist.
America has done **nothing** to deserve any loathing. We eat our freedom fries and give freedom to other countries. Have you ever heard of 9/11? Checkmate, ladies and gentlemen, we got him.
« America !! We’re number one !!! - Maybe if we stopped saying that people would stop trying to cut our heads off. We should say „we’re top 10!!!“ then the terrorists’dd go „that’s fair!!“ »
- Daniel Tosh
This is so much like 2004-16 "Golden Generation" crap that we all know how this is going to go.
Get through group, probably beat someone in the second round by virtue of having a couple of individuals that can do something, go out in the QF (meekly, probably on penalties) to the first actual contender for the title we play.
I think he’s just sick of dealing with English refs. That, or he doesn’t enjoy that you can’t put an offside player blocking if the keeper can attempt a save
Premier League refs when they retire and speak to up-and-coming referees about their profession:
"The Leviathan of the Seas, is it? The terrible shadow? The PGMOL with a million eyes and a million ears? Bad decisions? cluelessness? no accountability? I studied your methods in your school, and I do know the evil that you do because I was once part of it"
The most annoying thing was the constant attacker fouls he gave against Dumfries and Depay. The Dumfries one was so stupid because Hernandez‘ position was so bad and he just got bailed out by the call.
The yellow card to Schouten for just running faster and being stronger than Griezman ? That one was so bizzarre literally nothing in it.
And I’m only bringing up ones that affect Holland cause I remember them directly, not just being biased. I think he called some fucking weak fouls both ways that just take the momentum out the game.
Na Taylor and co can do you one better, they can actually deliver an unnecessary controversial and probably unjustified result just for the entertainment value.
I'd say the English and the Dutch are quite friendly tbh. Certainly you wouldn't find many English picking France to win over Netherlands. So this is more about English refereeing specifically.
It was harsh because the keeper is “probably” not saving it, but we can’t say that for sure and the player was factually in an offside position right beside the keeper where he would have dived.
There was no way of saving it but if by some miracle he could have made a magnificent save he would have been blocked by a player in an offside position.
So it's offside.
Sucks for them but it wasn't unfair in my opinion.
What is unfair is that every game I skip is great and every game I watch sucks.
I think the problem is also that apparently there was some discussion about whether to call it offside or not in the VAR room.
So then have Taylor take a fucking gander at it. Amateurs.
>What is unfair is that every game I skip is great and every game I watch sucks.
Are you me? Actually went to a cinema viewing for this one, never again lmao.
Apparently a top referee from France has even come out and said that it should've been allowed. I think a lot of people have an issue with Taylor not checking the video himself, which would've been a fairly standard procedure.
I saw some similar sentiment in another thread (and thought he was an idiot during the match even before this moment), so I take it that this is shared widely?
I think the standard of refereeing in England is poor in general, personally. International and Champions League games seem to have better refs and better processes.
Ignoring my making fun of Taylor I did assume that the ref would be sent to the screen yesterday since they took so long but I was also surprised that it wasn't a quick decision as to me it's clear cut even if I understand why Dutch players and fans would be very annoyed.
German referee pundit also said it should have been allowed. He also said UEFA explicitly - during the referee training before the tournament - said in those situations it's a goal and even showed a clip from basically the same situation as it happened in this game.
Ahhhh so the Dutch got Anthony Taylor'd. Happens to everyone eventually.
Current referee tier lists seem to be French and German officials at the top, Italian refs in the middle, then Anthony Taylor and Gil Monzano and their respective VAR teams being dogshit at the bottom.
I also like the one dutch ref. Maybe it’s just luck from my side but everytime I watch a game he refs it’s always a banger of a game and his refereeing is decent.
It's pretty much the same as the goal Leipzig scored vs Madrid. The goalie had pretty much no intention or very little chance to go for the ball, but he theoretically could have pulled a miracle save if not for the offside player
And since the player completely eradicated this possibility, it's a correct offside call
Correct call that resulted in an unfair decision is a perfect description for it, and sums up my thoughts on it all. I'm absolutely gutted for Simons as well, getting subbed straight after that call would sting.
Whether the keeper was going to save it is completely irrelevant. It's about the player interfering with play which he was. Shouldn't even be a debate.
It was harsh because he has for sure not saved it. The ball is in the goal before he reacts to the player. It'd be a different thing if he had dove and hit the player.
Thats not the rule though. And honestly nobody can tell me they would rather the ref be able to make judgement call if a keeper is able or not able to safe a shot.
You don’t want to be in a situation where it would be legitimate for a referee to think “the keeper might have got fingertips to it but couldn’t have stopped to going in, therefore it’s a goal”
Agree that it's almost certainly going in regardless, but don't agree that it's not obstruction because he didn't dive. A keeper can be subconsciously affected by someone standing next to them in a position that blocks a dive, it's natural for a person to consciously/subconsciously not want to dive straight into another person. And we do actually see Maignan make a small motion that looks like he was going to dive, but then stops (maybe because the player is there, or maybe because he has no hope of saving it, we can't really know). That's why it's viewed as interferring with the keeper/obstruction.
Of course he's not saving it even if he does dive for it, so really sympathise with Netherlands. But from my neutral perspective it's technically it's consistent with how refs apply the rules in general. They view the foul seperate to the "what was going to happen if there was no foul" consideration. As an analogy to explain this, we do have a common scenario where two players are going for the ball and one gets to it before the other but draws a foul as a result, but their touch is super heavy and they're 100% losing possession with or without any foul. The foul is still given regardless of whether they would've retained possession or not. Like, this happens often when a keeper rushes out and the attacker knocks the ball past them but with such a heavy touch that the ball is 100% going out for a goal kick and if there's no contact the attacker is never getting it (in fact some players look for the penalty rather than trying to score, they know they can't get to the ball first and also control it perfectly whilst maintaining balance to score, so they get any touch they can to get the ball past the keeper first and then ensure there's contact). Refs always give the foul/penalty because the keeper has missed the ball and made contact with the attacker, they ignore the fact that the attacker lost all control of the ball and wouldn't score if the keeper avoided contact. They seperate the foul from the rest of the scenario and focus solely on the fact that a foul of some sort occurred. And I think this is what happened here, it didn't matter if the shot was unsaveable or not, they were only focusing on was the offside player interferring with the keeper in any way, and I think that's a definite yes (he's standing where the keeper would dive). Very harsh and unfair, but consistent.
It was offside, it's harsh on Netherlands because the keeper wouldn't have saved it anyway, but you've got to give him the chance to try and the offside player blocked that.
That said, criticisms of the English referees is still valid as it took a ridiculous amount of time to confirm that decision. There's been two problematic VAR incidents this tournament and both have involved our officials.
I think the original call should just stand in these cases, unless the VAR check is for an incident the ref missed. In this case the assistant referee judged Dumfries to be offside and affecting the play, I don’t think Taylor should be called to the screen if the VAR can’t confidently say the call was wrong in their opinion.
Yeah there really needs to be a time limit on certain things. Like if you have all these cameras at your disposal, live and slow motion, and yet an entire team cannot confidently make a decision within 30-40 seconds then what the fuck is the point? What could possibly be taking THAT long?
After that it's a case of trying to force reasons to disallow a goal OR incompetence. Neither of which should be happening at this level.
Yeah, ignoring the decision itself the VAR was disgraceful. It can’t take that long. I’m not a fan of a hard time limit for decisions because some cases can have a lot going in them, but something needs to be since at least the PL refs have shown to not be decisive enough in the VAR room.
Yes. The problem was not that he was in an offside position, the problem was that he was standing in the direction the goalkeeper would have had to dive. I think if Xavi Simmons had shot in the opposite corner, he would have been fine too
The player, in offside position, was in the way of the ball. Just by standing there, he created an impact because the opposition doesnt know if he will hit the ball or it will go though. While unlucky for Netherlands, because it is arguably a mistake by Dumfries for stickign in offside position while attack was ongoing (and it wouldn't probably change the outcome had he been onside), this decision is easily defendable by the ref imo.
As much as an Englishman (and Liverpool fan bc that’s relevant in this case) I love to shit on English referees. I can understand the frustration, and I do think it’s harsh, but if this is the most controversial decision of the tournament so far, we see one every week worse than this in the PL
The fact that it's the *only* controversial decision and the *only* time VAR took an absolute age goes to show the problem isn't the technology but the poorly trained, undeservedly arrogant and indecisive English Premier League referee's.
I mean, its the only VAR check that has taken this long because its the only subjective offside decision we have had no? There's no debate as to whether he was past the last defender (the bit that is speeding up the decisions), the debate here is whether it counts as offside, which is fair to take longer no?
I think it took as long as it did because the VAR team were bickering amongst themselves about whether or not to overturn a refereeing decision.
I'm of the belief that if the Linesman decided to keep his flag down, it would have been a goal for the Netherlands. If he put his flag up (which he did) then it would have been called off.
That part is so dumb. VAR shouldn’t take into consideration what the on field refs say. They should try to get the right call. I mean ffs the refs on the pitch also make reffing decisions based on VAR being able to intervene (calling offside early or not(
Of course we see worse every week, because ref got it absolutely right this time.
Taylor's only mistake was taking too long for a pretty obvious offside call.
Rules say if player in offside distracts or blocks the GK it will be called.
The he wouldn't save it either way is true and sucks but we also don't take that measurement when calling a penalty where the ball would have gone out of bounds either way or a player plays hand while the ball would have clearly missed the goal.
Dumfries himself didn't celebrate the goal, he walked in the opposite direction, he already knew his position was problematic.
So acting as if this decision was completely out of the blue is a bit dishonest.
My understanding of the rule is if the offside player interfered with the play, which he clearly did. That's it. It's not subjective in that sense and you don't even have to ask the question "would he have saved it?". You can think the rule sucks or whatever, but seems the right call was made.
I was watching the Fox broadcast and having to listen to Landon Donovan and Mark Clattenburg drone on and on about "subjectivity" was painful. I am again asking for a broadcast that can mute all announcers and just hear the crowd/game noises.
This sort of decision is why you should have the Comms between the officials broadcast, completely understandable that it was disallowed especially when the on field was to do that, but without the context people are free to make up their own narratives.
Goal disallowed: Offside, ain't cutting it
I don’t get why so many people are being pissy about the extended var time for the final call. The players should be getting a water break anyways. It’s a big call that needs to be done right. Feels like some folks just need something to cry about 🤷♀️
Ah right, yeah I don’t want it changed like it’s better to have something as close to black and white as you can but you’ll sometimes get these decisions which are correct but feel harsh
The "keeper is never getting to it, therefore it's a legal goal" standard is the same as "that player would never score from there, therefore it's not a penalty anyways"
I presume that's what he meant
I think more like "the ball would go out of play, the player could never catch up to it. Yet it is still a penalty if they get fouled, regardless of if they could catch up to the ball"
Nah man. The refs were completely justified in dissalowing that goal.
The fact he's bringing up the refs nationality just makes him look worse because it shows an underlying bias behind his claim.
Thank god that its not Ronaldo or Bruno saying this, because otherwise there would be hundreds of "crybaby" comments.
Instead we get a very mild comment section where almost no one mentions how fucking petty it is for him to mention the nationality of the ref, who was indeed right.
If you're offside, get out of the way. It's as simple as that. Imo it should be disallowed even if it went in the top corner at 100kph, if an offside player is in between the ball and the keeper it shouldn't count.
It was the right call but unlucky tor Holand.
He ends up beside the keeper due to natural momentum but he was totally blocking an attempt of a save, regardless of whether it could be saved
I think it was the right decision, and I say that as someone who hates Anthony Taylor and also wishes nothing but misery on the entire nation of France.
Look I wanted the Dutch to win but it was a right decision. He was offside.
I am a chelsea fan I absolutely cannot stand Taylor but this was the right decision.
I do strongly believe Taylor shouldn’t be a ref at the top flight tho.
I’m a massive footie fan and most refs I cannot name but Taylor I can. A referee should not be known by name. They should just do there job. If every fan knows who they are it just means they’re terrible at there job
Tldr Taylor is still shit shouldn’t be a ref but he made the correct call for once
Correct call even though I get why people might think it’s unfair. But you shouldn’t be mad at Taylor for applying the rules correctly for once, be mad at dumfries for just standing there in an offside position like a traffic cone lol
It's crazy how pros don't know the rules.
Yeah Anthony Taylor had a stinker in terms of killing the game via tempo but looking at the letter of the law, it's offside.
Dumfries was nearly inside the net. Usually its vision blocking offside calls in situations like this but Dumfries was literally in the only spot keeper could move to whether he could save it or not.
If they let this be a goal, me as a player or coach would cheese the game by letting someone stand beside the keeper the whole game and trying to get a similar result. Absolutely the right call as loathsome as Taylor is and its silly of Van Dijk to not recognize that.
Whichever way the officials called it, the decision was going to be controversial. I feel like disallowing the goal was the least worst call here. But the amount of time it took to review was ridiculous.
> But the amount of time it took to review was ridiculous.
Yeah it just brings up more VAR issues. What was taking so long? Is it a competence issue or does it raise questions on time limits needing to be put in place?
Of fucking course in a tournament that's on the whole been run really well the only controversial VAR decision comes with the English referees. It's not a coincidence.
oh, shut up. imagine France converting such a chance, there would have been a waterfall of complaints not even a thousand of Dutch dams and canals could contain
Someone is hating on Anthony Taylor? I’ve been summoned.
if Anthony Taylor has no haters I'm dead.
If Anthony taylor has one hater, it's me
If Anthony Taylor has millions of haters, 3 of us will be among the crowd
One more right here.
Anthony is a fucking criminal, how does he still have a fucking job. What he did to Roma in last year’s EL final was absolutely criminal.
And my Axe!
And my bow
And my FIM-92 Stinger
[And my Tesco trolley!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1btDc5xJe0)
anthony taylor eats corn the long way
Anthony Taylor gives dildos a bad name
That got me thinking… What is a bad name for a dildo? I mean, other than Anthony Taylor. Hole pole?
Gash Bludgeon
Let me say I’m the biggest hater
I hate the way you call fouls
We should his lauders, he’s good for us but shit for Chelsea
Taylor should never ever be allowed to ref us again. Like he’s shit for everyone but he is downright criminal against us
How long does a refs list of blunders against one team need to get before you stop giving him their games?
He's one of England's finest, I read it here on this fucking sub
Well... Not with Taylor, but Paul Tierney has been consistently fucking Liverpool and he still got assigned Liverpool games despite Klopp's consistent clear complain about him. So probably never? Taylor will still get Chelsea games.
Two FA Cups! Fucker was the first ref to get two FA Cup finals and fucked us proper in both of them.
If Anthony Taylor has a million haters, I am one of them. If Anthony Taylor has ten haters, I am one of them. If Anthony Taylor has only one hater, that is me. If Anthony Taylor has no haters, I no longer exist.
Was the call right? I guess. Fck Anthony Taylor? HELL YES!
It's a call to action for all of us. Like someone pressing a Dark Mark and summoning Chelsea fans.
If I knew how to work that announcement feature Reddit has, I’d absolutely be firing the Fuck Taylor klaxon to get all the Chelsea fans in.
I think about that free kick he gave against Alonso several times a year
Clearly it's Alonsos fault Gazzaniga fly kicked him into the chest, completely missing the ball smh
I caught one of my students sending hate mail to Anthony Taylor. We're in South Korea. I was so proud
As both a Dutchie and a Chelsea fan, I’m extra awake now
I didn't even know we had beef with the Dutch!
I think this is more about him being Liverpool captain rather than Dutch.
Yeah this is it. Feel like everyone's just forgot he puts up with Anthony Taylor and Stuart Atwell's bollocks on a weekly basis.
People don't actually make the connection he's saying this because he's used to the "English referees" in the PL?
Some people aren't smart enough to put two and two together.
And that 'some' is way too big of a number
No, he's saying English referees are bad at their jobs
Mate it’s England, everybody dislikes us
England 🤝🏻 France 🤝🏻America The unholy trio of universally loathed nations
The rest of the the UK’s PR is undefeated
Wales so good at PR people often forget to include it
That's the way we like it
scotland gets away with so much shit by just pointing at england ahaha
Surely Russia and Israel should be in there at this rate.
I think Israel and Russia have reached the next tier of hatred.
America has done **nothing** to deserve any loathing. We eat our freedom fries and give freedom to other countries. Have you ever heard of 9/11? Checkmate, ladies and gentlemen, we got him.
« America !! We’re number one !!! - Maybe if we stopped saying that people would stop trying to cut our heads off. We should say „we’re top 10!!!“ then the terrorists’dd go „that’s fair!!“ » - Daniel Tosh
We’re not number one, we’re the only one. One mile is longer than one kilometer, take that communists, can’t hear you over the sound of our FREEDOm
1 Kilo is more than 1 pound tho
Good try, but I don’t fall for fake news buddy
The sad part is that even though you're clearly joking, there are way too many people who actuay believe and parrot that stuff...
We dont have parrots here buddy, only EAGLES Rock flag and eagle
Fact checked by real McCarthyist patriots 🇱🇷🦅🇱🇷🦅🇱🇷🦅
You had me in the first half not gonna lie lmao
We're back to back World War Champs you'll never sing that
Given that we are completely stinking out the tournament with our dour football and dreadful referee's, this time the hate seems proportionate.
I really want to say "It's coming home", but I'm growing tired :(
This is so much like 2004-16 "Golden Generation" crap that we all know how this is going to go. Get through group, probably beat someone in the second round by virtue of having a couple of individuals that can do something, go out in the QF (meekly, probably on penalties) to the first actual contender for the title we play.
Or Gareth shit houses all the way to the final and we get beat 6-0 by Germany
Oh I know that. But he's saying it like we have beef with *them*, which I'm not aware of
It's not England mate. It's English refs specifically.
Howard Webb public enemy number one in Poland
Fuck Howard Webb
Anthony Taylor public enemy number one in Rome, but maybe not only there anymore
Yeah, the refs are disappointing expecially Oliver and taylor
I don't know, pound for pound, I think Oliver has done his job excellently recently, made all the decisions you'd expect him to make since his holiday
I think he’s just sick of dealing with English refs. That, or he doesn’t enjoy that you can’t put an offside player blocking if the keeper can attempt a save
We're the Millwall of Europe aren't we? 😭
We're pretty shit but I never want to be compared to Millwall for as long as I live, that's too far
Nah we're Leeds
Rival East India Companies innit
Premier League refs when they retire and speak to up-and-coming referees about their profession: "The Leviathan of the Seas, is it? The terrible shadow? The PGMOL with a million eyes and a million ears? Bad decisions? cluelessness? no accountability? I studied your methods in your school, and I do know the evil that you do because I was once part of it"
Been going on since 1665. Virgil still not over the Battle of Lowestoft. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Anglo-Dutch_War
I think he is more pissed about the Treaty of his home town that is mentioned.
too many Liverpool players in that team for Taylor to not have beef with them
Does that explain last year’s EL final? He saw Wijnaldum on the field and was like ‘screw Roma amirite!?’
We don’t… but your refs are the worst. Not even talking about the offside. He completely took all the tempo out of the game.
The most annoying thing was the constant attacker fouls he gave against Dumfries and Depay. The Dumfries one was so stupid because Hernandez‘ position was so bad and he just got bailed out by the call.
The yellow card to Schouten for just running faster and being stronger than Griezman ? That one was so bizzarre literally nothing in it. And I’m only bringing up ones that affect Holland cause I remember them directly, not just being biased. I think he called some fucking weak fouls both ways that just take the momentum out the game.
"Managing the game" Refs should probably be drilled that they don't need to manage the game, they need to ref it.
Na Taylor and co can do you one better, they can actually deliver an unnecessary controversial and probably unjustified result just for the entertainment value.
Now think of what it's like for us having to put up with them all season and not just in internationals.
The Dutch did keep stealing your ships from the Thames estuary in the 1600s, van Dijk is simply bringing back the beef.
It all started with Austin powers.
You don't, but I thought the English people on this subreddit also had beef with English refs.
you don't Both english and dutch fans have beef with English refs. Join us brother
You must not have been following Liverpool that closely over the last couple of seasons.
I'd say the English and the Dutch are quite friendly tbh. Certainly you wouldn't find many English picking France to win over Netherlands. So this is more about English refereeing specifically.
You certainly have beef with Liverpool, including the refs
It's Taylor, VVD probably already hates any game involving him as something like this always seems to happen
Didn’t they burn your fleet down in your own home that one time?
It was harsh because the keeper is “probably” not saving it, but we can’t say that for sure and the player was factually in an offside position right beside the keeper where he would have dived.
There was no way of saving it but if by some miracle he could have made a magnificent save he would have been blocked by a player in an offside position. So it's offside. Sucks for them but it wasn't unfair in my opinion. What is unfair is that every game I skip is great and every game I watch sucks.
r/footballhighlights often has games in full FYI if you don't have access to them elsewhere.
Cheers buddy.
Thanks!
For the love of god please stop watching England games then 😂😂
I think the problem is also that apparently there was some discussion about whether to call it offside or not in the VAR room. So then have Taylor take a fucking gander at it. Amateurs.
As a general rule, not having Taylor have a look reduces the risk of error.
Stuart Atwell on VAR. A box of cereal would be more competent than that useless bastard.
>What is unfair is that every game I skip is great and every game I watch sucks. Are you me? Actually went to a cinema viewing for this one, never again lmao.
The solution is to simply watch every match so they all suck
lol stop watching England then
Apparently a top referee from France has even come out and said that it should've been allowed. I think a lot of people have an issue with Taylor not checking the video himself, which would've been a fairly standard procedure.
Yeah it's Taylor though. I wouldn't trust him either.
I saw some similar sentiment in another thread (and thought he was an idiot during the match even before this moment), so I take it that this is shared widely?
I think the standard of refereeing in England is poor in general, personally. International and Champions League games seem to have better refs and better processes. Ignoring my making fun of Taylor I did assume that the ref would be sent to the screen yesterday since they took so long but I was also surprised that it wasn't a quick decision as to me it's clear cut even if I understand why Dutch players and fans would be very annoyed.
German referee pundit also said it should have been allowed. He also said UEFA explicitly - during the referee training before the tournament - said in those situations it's a goal and even showed a clip from basically the same situation as it happened in this game.
Ahhhh so the Dutch got Anthony Taylor'd. Happens to everyone eventually. Current referee tier lists seem to be French and German officials at the top, Italian refs in the middle, then Anthony Taylor and Gil Monzano and their respective VAR teams being dogshit at the bottom.
I also like the one dutch ref. Maybe it’s just luck from my side but everytime I watch a game he refs it’s always a banger of a game and his refereeing is decent.
It's pretty much the same as the goal Leipzig scored vs Madrid. The goalie had pretty much no intention or very little chance to go for the ball, but he theoretically could have pulled a miracle save if not for the offside player And since the player completely eradicated this possibility, it's a correct offside call
Right. It’s the call with the least amount of subjectivity applied
100% That is a correct call that resulted in an unfair decision.
Correct call that resulted in an unfair decision is a perfect description for it, and sums up my thoughts on it all. I'm absolutely gutted for Simons as well, getting subbed straight after that call would sting.
At the end of the day Dumfries just should not have been there, he was miles offside doing nothing.
Yep. In UEFA even English referees have to follow rules, not just vibes
Whether the keeper was going to save it is completely irrelevant. It's about the player interfering with play which he was. Shouldn't even be a debate.
It was harsh because he has for sure not saved it. The ball is in the goal before he reacts to the player. It'd be a different thing if he had dove and hit the player.
Thats not the rule though. And honestly nobody can tell me they would rather the ref be able to make judgement call if a keeper is able or not able to safe a shot.
You don’t want to be in a situation where it would be legitimate for a referee to think “the keeper might have got fingertips to it but couldn’t have stopped to going in, therefore it’s a goal”
*Ref has to go to the keeper and check their finger strength.*
*mediocre*
Agree that it's almost certainly going in regardless, but don't agree that it's not obstruction because he didn't dive. A keeper can be subconsciously affected by someone standing next to them in a position that blocks a dive, it's natural for a person to consciously/subconsciously not want to dive straight into another person. And we do actually see Maignan make a small motion that looks like he was going to dive, but then stops (maybe because the player is there, or maybe because he has no hope of saving it, we can't really know). That's why it's viewed as interferring with the keeper/obstruction. Of course he's not saving it even if he does dive for it, so really sympathise with Netherlands. But from my neutral perspective it's technically it's consistent with how refs apply the rules in general. They view the foul seperate to the "what was going to happen if there was no foul" consideration. As an analogy to explain this, we do have a common scenario where two players are going for the ball and one gets to it before the other but draws a foul as a result, but their touch is super heavy and they're 100% losing possession with or without any foul. The foul is still given regardless of whether they would've retained possession or not. Like, this happens often when a keeper rushes out and the attacker knocks the ball past them but with such a heavy touch that the ball is 100% going out for a goal kick and if there's no contact the attacker is never getting it (in fact some players look for the penalty rather than trying to score, they know they can't get to the ball first and also control it perfectly whilst maintaining balance to score, so they get any touch they can to get the ball past the keeper first and then ensure there's contact). Refs always give the foul/penalty because the keeper has missed the ball and made contact with the attacker, they ignore the fact that the attacker lost all control of the ball and wouldn't score if the keeper avoided contact. They seperate the foul from the rest of the scenario and focus solely on the fact that a foul of some sort occurred. And I think this is what happened here, it didn't matter if the shot was unsaveable or not, they were only focusing on was the offside player interferring with the keeper in any way, and I think that's a definite yes (he's standing where the keeper would dive). Very harsh and unfair, but consistent.
It was offside, it's harsh on Netherlands because the keeper wouldn't have saved it anyway, but you've got to give him the chance to try and the offside player blocked that. That said, criticisms of the English referees is still valid as it took a ridiculous amount of time to confirm that decision. There's been two problematic VAR incidents this tournament and both have involved our officials.
Yeah I’m not sure what took so long, especially as it was given offside on the field
And if it was up to interpretation, why wasn't Taylor called in to check it on the screen himself?
They only go to the screen if it’s recommended to be overturned, which the VAR obviously didn’t recommend
well that's weird. If it's so dubious that it takes several minutes to judge then I'd rather the main ref take the decision.
I think the original call should just stand in these cases, unless the VAR check is for an incident the ref missed. In this case the assistant referee judged Dumfries to be offside and affecting the play, I don’t think Taylor should be called to the screen if the VAR can’t confidently say the call was wrong in their opinion.
Yeah there really needs to be a time limit on certain things. Like if you have all these cameras at your disposal, live and slow motion, and yet an entire team cannot confidently make a decision within 30-40 seconds then what the fuck is the point? What could possibly be taking THAT long? After that it's a case of trying to force reasons to disallow a goal OR incompetence. Neither of which should be happening at this level.
Yeah, ignoring the decision itself the VAR was disgraceful. It can’t take that long. I’m not a fan of a hard time limit for decisions because some cases can have a lot going in them, but something needs to be since at least the PL refs have shown to not be decisive enough in the VAR room.
English Officials: “We don’t do that here.”
Because the on field decision was offside. He’d only be asked to got to the screen if VAR thought it should be a goal
Completely agree on time taken, Stuart Atwell took far far too long and that was an embarrassment to football. It was also the right decision.
I’m wondering, would it have counted if dumfries ran completely into the goal because maignan could dive?
Yes
If Dumfries was behind the goalie then it wouldn't be offside because he could not interfere with him.
I would think that would count
Yes. The problem was not that he was in an offside position, the problem was that he was standing in the direction the goalkeeper would have had to dive. I think if Xavi Simmons had shot in the opposite corner, he would have been fine too
Goal keeper is never saving that but the fact he can't even attempt to dive with the guy in the way means it's offside interference.
The player, in offside position, was in the way of the ball. Just by standing there, he created an impact because the opposition doesnt know if he will hit the ball or it will go though. While unlucky for Netherlands, because it is arguably a mistake by Dumfries for stickign in offside position while attack was ongoing (and it wouldn't probably change the outcome had he been onside), this decision is easily defendable by the ref imo.
I don't think it was an impossible save. Unlikely, but not impossible
As much as an Englishman (and Liverpool fan bc that’s relevant in this case) I love to shit on English referees. I can understand the frustration, and I do think it’s harsh, but if this is the most controversial decision of the tournament so far, we see one every week worse than this in the PL
The fact that it's the *only* controversial decision and the *only* time VAR took an absolute age goes to show the problem isn't the technology but the poorly trained, undeservedly arrogant and indecisive English Premier League referee's.
I mean, its the only VAR check that has taken this long because its the only subjective offside decision we have had no? There's no debate as to whether he was past the last defender (the bit that is speeding up the decisions), the debate here is whether it counts as offside, which is fair to take longer no?
I think it took as long as it did because the VAR team were bickering amongst themselves about whether or not to overturn a refereeing decision. I'm of the belief that if the Linesman decided to keep his flag down, it would have been a goal for the Netherlands. If he put his flag up (which he did) then it would have been called off.
That part is so dumb. VAR shouldn’t take into consideration what the on field refs say. They should try to get the right call. I mean ffs the refs on the pitch also make reffing decisions based on VAR being able to intervene (calling offside early or not(
Even commentary was commenting on how long it was taking compared to other referees and their decisions to do with VAR and/or offsides.
Of course we see worse every week, because ref got it absolutely right this time. Taylor's only mistake was taking too long for a pretty obvious offside call.
And it was VAR fault anyway, as they weren't able to make a decision.
He must be fucking relieved to be finally able to shit on an English ref without risking sanctions. He's wrong though, Dumfries was in the way.
English favouring Fr*nch? Come on mate
Everyone knows the brits secretly love the french
It was offside.. the goalkeeper would've never saved it. So it sucks, but it was atill offside.
Rules say if player in offside distracts or blocks the GK it will be called. The he wouldn't save it either way is true and sucks but we also don't take that measurement when calling a penalty where the ball would have gone out of bounds either way or a player plays hand while the ball would have clearly missed the goal.
Dumfries himself didn't celebrate the goal, he walked in the opposite direction, he already knew his position was problematic. So acting as if this decision was completely out of the blue is a bit dishonest.
My understanding of the rule is if the offside player interfered with the play, which he clearly did. That's it. It's not subjective in that sense and you don't even have to ask the question "would he have saved it?". You can think the rule sucks or whatever, but seems the right call was made. I was watching the Fox broadcast and having to listen to Landon Donovan and Mark Clattenburg drone on and on about "subjectivity" was painful. I am again asking for a broadcast that can mute all announcers and just hear the crowd/game noises.
I get he is sour, but blaming his nationality is hilarious
"The goal, which was mistakenly disallowed by a, I'm not going to say what nationality, referee. We know I can't say that. It was an English referee."
It’s genuinely fucking stupid. And he had a good game yesterday
I just kept watching that game thinking Jurgen was somewhere in Ibiza watching Virg yell at Anthony Taylor and laughing
This sort of decision is why you should have the Comms between the officials broadcast, completely understandable that it was disallowed especially when the on field was to do that, but without the context people are free to make up their own narratives. Goal disallowed: Offside, ain't cutting it
I don’t get why so many people are being pissy about the extended var time for the final call. The players should be getting a water break anyways. It’s a big call that needs to be done right. Feels like some folks just need something to cry about 🤷♀️
Keeper was never getting to it. Feels harsh in the spirit of things but by law he’s interfered
Completly irrelevant, we don't take this measurement for penalty, so why would it count here?
What? I don’t get what you’re saying sorry
I think he's saying that if the player was never getting the ball and is fouled it's still a pen. Or similar. Basically ifs and buts don't matter
Ah right, yeah I don’t want it changed like it’s better to have something as close to black and white as you can but you’ll sometimes get these decisions which are correct but feel harsh
The "keeper is never getting to it, therefore it's a legal goal" standard is the same as "that player would never score from there, therefore it's not a penalty anyways" I presume that's what he meant
I think more like "the ball would go out of play, the player could never catch up to it. Yet it is still a penalty if they get fouled, regardless of if they could catch up to the ball"
One of the biggest whiner crybabies in world football.
Those pesky English; notoriously biased toward the French.
Nah man. The refs were completely justified in dissalowing that goal. The fact he's bringing up the refs nationality just makes him look worse because it shows an underlying bias behind his claim.
Also since when did the english favour the french
I mean yeah, he plays Premier League.. English refs and Anthony Taylor in particular fuck him over all the time.
#NoToAnglophobia
Nah feel free, we can actually take it
Yeah I like it. It's fun winding people up and being hated.
Thank god that its not Ronaldo or Bruno saying this, because otherwise there would be hundreds of "crybaby" comments. Instead we get a very mild comment section where almost no one mentions how fucking petty it is for him to mention the nationality of the ref, who was indeed right.
If you're offside, get out of the way. It's as simple as that. Imo it should be disallowed even if it went in the top corner at 100kph, if an offside player is in between the ball and the keeper it shouldn't count.
It was the right call but unlucky tor Holand. He ends up beside the keeper due to natural momentum but he was totally blocking an attempt of a save, regardless of whether it could be saved
He saw Van Dijk and Gakpo in the team and thought he was reffing Liverpool.
I think it was the right decision, and I say that as someone who hates Anthony Taylor and also wishes nothing but misery on the entire nation of France.
Not all English Referees, but always an English Referee.
Look I wanted the Dutch to win but it was a right decision. He was offside. I am a chelsea fan I absolutely cannot stand Taylor but this was the right decision. I do strongly believe Taylor shouldn’t be a ref at the top flight tho. I’m a massive footie fan and most refs I cannot name but Taylor I can. A referee should not be known by name. They should just do there job. If every fan knows who they are it just means they’re terrible at there job Tldr Taylor is still shit shouldn’t be a ref but he made the correct call for once
Disappointed he didn't mention how long it took for him to disallow it
Clear offside. Sucks, but clear.
It was the correct call though.
lets just put 1 player on the keeper the whole game then
Correct call even though I get why people might think it’s unfair. But you shouldn’t be mad at Taylor for applying the rules correctly for once, be mad at dumfries for just standing there in an offside position like a traffic cone lol
It's crazy how pros don't know the rules. Yeah Anthony Taylor had a stinker in terms of killing the game via tempo but looking at the letter of the law, it's offside.
Yea after saying that I'm glad it was disallowed.
Why’s he always so passive aggressive
He just felt like being a dijk
he’s Dutch
Dumfries was nearly inside the net. Usually its vision blocking offside calls in situations like this but Dumfries was literally in the only spot keeper could move to whether he could save it or not. If they let this be a goal, me as a player or coach would cheese the game by letting someone stand beside the keeper the whole game and trying to get a similar result. Absolutely the right call as loathsome as Taylor is and its silly of Van Dijk to not recognize that.
Whichever way the officials called it, the decision was going to be controversial. I feel like disallowing the goal was the least worst call here. But the amount of time it took to review was ridiculous.
> But the amount of time it took to review was ridiculous. Yeah it just brings up more VAR issues. What was taking so long? Is it a competence issue or does it raise questions on time limits needing to be put in place? Of fucking course in a tournament that's on the whole been run really well the only controversial VAR decision comes with the English referees. It's not a coincidence.
Boom roasted
oh, shut up. imagine France converting such a chance, there would have been a waterfall of complaints not even a thousand of Dutch dams and canals could contain