If you go on the bridgeclimb there was a funny story they told about her crackiing the shits because the heli doing production photography/filming ran out of fuel so she was more or less stuck up there
I was reading that Sydney has 7 CBDs. I think they are based on numbers, like how they class a "City" in the LGAs. Sydney, North Sydney, Chatswood, Macquarie Park, Parramatta, Liverpool and I can't remember the 7th.
No, Bankstown is within the Central River City, where Parramatta is the regional centre. The future centres are Sydney and Parramatta, with the west being split up amongst Penrith, Campbelltown, Liverpool and Bradfield.
Yep
The fact we are living in poorly connected enclaves doesn't mean little cities are emerging
Seems a distraction - "don't worry that you'll never move, the fun is coming to you"
As much as I love the idea of density and less car-centric development - which all of this promises - is there any provision - like ANY - ANYWHERE in these plans to ensure that the housing stock built is of good quality?
Like surely smart people behind these decisions are aware of Sydney's atrocious track record of poor quality fast builds and... are going to try to address this problem?
Surely????
Anyone seen anything like this anywhere?
In fact ARE there mechanisms by which you can ensure better build quality? Or is the only answer ever available to us simply: hand it over to rapacious and couldn't-give-af developers?
:/
I’ve been on probably 100+ inspections over the years. I don’t think I’ve ever been inside a unit and thought “wow, it would be amazing to live here.” It’s always “This is what you get for this price. No more. “
I'm saving for a deposit to buy an apartment, because I can't afford a SFH, and sometimes I look at what my budget allows for and want to cry. Half the places I look at don't even have space for a fridge, what the actual fuck?
As a thought experiment, wouldn’t it be wonderful if the major realty apps had comment sections? A space for some counterprogramming and venting? Bring some direct attention to developers and REAs. “Garden photoshopped-inspection showed it’s a muddy mess of sod with an oversized, pet-unfriendly drain”. “Floorplan is pure rubbish. X&Y Architects should be out of business.” “View is neighbouring brickwork.”
Save everyone’s precious Saturdays.
Investors are the worst. Inspect an owner occupied unit that forced people to improve on the base construction-it’s OK. Investor owned? The doorknob may come off in your hand. (Saw it happen once…still sold for $800k+ in Sydney)
We kinda have this already over at [shitrentals.org](https://shitrentals.org)
people post what the condition of rentals are REALLY like. These also go up for sale too from time to time so you can see if the address is on there and get an idea for how the place was actually treated by the previous owner.
I’ve often thought this. Even for design choices. WHY IS THE ROOM ORIENTATED THIS WAY? DO YOU WATCH TV STANDING UP?
It wouldn’t be so hard to scrape the content and build a site for this purpose. Other sites do it already for other reasons.
Comment sections would be wonderful.
And yeah, basically the only option for me to own is a cheap apartment. It's very unlikely I'd be buying from an owner occupier. And I'd say 95% of what I look at is being sold by landlords. The complete lack of decor (or, if there's decor, it looks like a photoshopped waiting room) is a dead give away.
But every now and then you see listings from owner occupiers who clearly poured their hearts and souls into the place. Painted walls, wallpaper, ornaments that aren't generic... they make the place look so much more attractive than White Painted Closet #451 even though they're just as cramped.
I stand by the fact that leaving sydney is by far the best thing you can do as a FHB. Transfer jobs to literally anywhere else and you'll get a better deal for your money.
Same here.
Keep hearing how melbournians think its expensive down there when you can get a free standing house in the west <60mins to the cbd for under 700K lol. Such a thing DOES NOT EXIST AT ALL in sydney.
Also a 2 bedder apartment for 400K 30mins from the CBD as well. Thats new and decent too and not a shit box.
Too good to pass up imo.
Shit, you can *get* a $400K 2 bedder right smack in the middle of the CBD of Melbourne. You're probably better off with the 30min ones tho bc the CBD apartments are tiny except for the luxury ones.
I wanna hold out for a $400K one but I'd have to stay at home a few more years for the deposit, boo.
10% isn't enough. I'm single and the bank will give me only a tiny mortgage. Even with an equity scheme I need a big deposit. I'd need $150K to get, say, a $400K place.
This is not true at all. I'm single and max i can get is 460K from the bank.
that means i need at most 46K for a deposit. Would take me less than 12 months of hard saving if i lived at home. You can still buy a 2 bedder apartment in sydney for 460K in places like blacktown or campbelltown. Not the greatest but its something.
Get educated on this. People think they need shitloads of cash to enter in. It couldn't be further from the truth.
I used to live in one in North Sydney and I really loved that unit. 2 bedrooms 2 baths. Good quality finishes, very well located and good administration from strata. If I had the money I’d move back but $1.6mil for a 2br unit is outrageous.
yup, we could definitely learn a lot from Japan.
The high density apartments in Tokyo with only like one room or even no rooms arent flash by any means but they're at least built to a decent standard of quality to survive an earthquake.
Hell, we don't even need to make them as compact or small as Japan, but if we built to Japan's standards I would be happy.
We don't even need to learn from Japan, just look at places like NYC, Chicago, Toronto, Montreal, DC, etc and you'll find very culturally/historically similar cities with plenty of livable density and walkability.
Hell I even remember visiting apartments in Chile that were 3 bedder with living room and kitchen, the size of a small house basically. But were 10 units stacked on top of each other. Was like 2 units per floor.
Was amazing. Other than the balcony you wouldn't even know from the space. And it wasn't just the odd one at the top that cost 2m.
I saw one apartment that used a bunch of ikea cabinetslaid down as a bed (with a futon on top)
interesting way to change the layout of the room and add a lot of storage
Same here. They really got high density down right. The rooms are comfy, well insulated, small but enough to fit the essentials.
Australians would reject it in droves as we are used to "big things" but i'd happily live in a 1LDK if it was cheap enough and in the middle of the CBD.
Nah, just sell them to overseas investors trying to hide money from their governments busy hands. No one actually lives in these places, people just exist in them.
Downvotes are unjustified. You've laid out the triangle taught in every project management course and it applies to every kind of project, not only building.
There's always a tradeoff and you need to decide what to sacrifice or how to balance it.
Cheap + fast = low quality
Cheap + quality = be prepared to wait ages
Quality + fast = will cost a ton
The 4th slider is scope. Here we're assuming a fixed scope (design).
In housing, it 100% does. It’s almost always applied to housing, trades, etc.
If I want my house built next month and I want it to be the best house in Australia, I’m going to have to pay a lot of money for that. Swap these analogies out as you see fit.
Mass-developers have never built high quality or artisanal homes. The old homes we all gawk at were built by the wealthy people of the day. Those people still exist today, and they still build beautiful big homes today.
A lot of the old homes you see around are just cheap homes (of the era) maintained well, and generally speaking, if a structure lasts over a year, it’s going to be there long after we’re all gone — as long as it’s maintained to a basic degree.
So what you saying is a median house can't be built good or fast but can be built at an over-hyperinflated price that is either good OR fast making it no longer a median house... Essentially saying exactly what I said but with more words that good or fast doesn't exist in that triangle, it's cheapest or cheapestest (to build not to buy)and thats it
> If I want my house built next month and I want it to be the best house in Australia, I’m going to have to pay a lot of money for that.
If you want a house built five years from now and spend a shitton of money on it, it will still be shit because why would a company use that money on materials when they can cut costs and make a bigger profit without compromising legal standards?
Sounds good but we need better quality.
I’ve been to 20 apartments and so far I’ve found half have bad defects or are maintained badly.
The building commissioner has said more than 50% of apartments are badly built too.
I don’t want to be bankrupt over an apartment …
> or are maintained badly.
that's what happens when these things are ultimately designed by and built for investors....maintenance is an extra cost they as majority nope down on pretty early in the strata meetings....I mean what do they care, they don't live there.
I’m stuck in this situation atm. I’m one of the only owner-occupiers in the building. The other owners treat the capital works fund like it’s still their money, which will be reimbursed to them one day (they’re holding out hope this place will get knocked down by developers).
If they do any meaningful maintenance, it’s only after months of me nagging or when it’s become an emergency (hello, gas leak).
It’s so frustrating living in a building dominated by slumlord investors.
So looking at the rendering for Hornsby, they’re proposing to:
1. Demolish Hornsby Westfield to build units,
2. Demolish the Heritage Protected Buildings on the Hornsby Western Side of the railway station
3. Demolish the Hornsby Industrial Complex’s on George and Hunter Streets
Yeah this is going to go over well…
I'd be ok with this but chances are they will cost an arm and a leg. The apartments on top of rouse hill town centre and ryde are insanely expensive for what you get.
I'd love to live on top of westfield though, providing parking is not a cunt. Would be convienient as hell having all of that below you. Would seriously consider selling the car tbh.
Check out what happened with eastgardens and the fuckton of meritons next door. They jammed so much stuff in there theres traffic jams just to get out every morning. Oh and btw rentals start at 750 for a 1br cos they can
5500 new dwellings are going somewhere. We got a joyful newsletter from our Lord and saviour, Phillip Ruddock (mayor) telling us this news but with zero detail. Have been wondering where they would be built.
I found it funny watching the news tonight and seeing Phil change his tune because of the lack of other amenities being included.
Despite anyone with a brain seeing that there wouldn’t be anything about extra amenities from the get go, which Ruddock seems to have missed.
I thought they were reclaiming (or the council was planning to, I should say) a bunch of old railway land? This is based on my elderly Mum's comments, she lives there.
Yeah maybe? I was thinking it was in that stretch just north of the Station itself but that doesn't match the new master plan.
There's also an empty site next to the RSL (where the Covid testing place was) which I thought was going to turn into to oldies supported living but AFAIK it's still empty.
There was talk of building over the station like Chatswood but that doesn't seem to be in that image either. Always wondered about that RSL land. I'll see if I can find some more details.
I had a quick google and there was something about them extending the [allowed height for the RSL](https://yoursay.hornsby.nsw.gov.au/plan-prop-hornsby-rsl) as well as the empty block so I guess they've been planning redevelopment for a while.
There's a heap of info online I've found since this announcement. Not sure how much was available back then. I don't recall any of this discussion at the time and I'm certain much of this will never happen. It's insanely optimistic. I'm surprised my local FB group didn't go off about it. Maybe I missed it. 36 storey towers parked on top of Westfield though...
Good. The RSL is just a pokies haven and has been for decades now. It's no longer about returning servicemen and hasn't been for ages. Hell Berowra RSL is more of an RSL than Hornsby RSL ffs.
Believe it when I see it.
1. Unless they rebuild Westfield with residential above?
2. Heritage designation means sweet F.A these days
3. This will force businesses out of the area.
I don't see points 1&3 happening.
Both sides of the train line were already due for multi-tower development, but nothing further has happened as yet.
Why is any of this bad? The Westfield won't be demolished, it will be renovated to add height and housing on top.
To another point someone else made, more people living there brings more business, doesn't destroy business activity.
I'm all for it, if we want to protect the 'bushland shire' we can't be sprawling out.
Westfield Hornsby has a big carpark on the roof, they can’t just slap buildings on top. They will need to restructure the entire building to handle the new 30 storey skyscrapers
Yes I agree, I just don't think they'll demo the whole thing. That's going to eliminate essential shopping options for people in about 20 suburbs north and south while the uplift is being done.
Yeah, seems a bit ridiculous. But there are a couple of blocks that will be built on in the near future. The “business centre” next to the library will go (to be replaced with an apartment block) which is on the east side as you approach westfield from the footbridge. On the west side, the block with the brothel and gametraders 😭 has had a DA approved but it may run out soon. So there are plans in the pipeline but all quite up in the air. Hornsby council is a keen builder though. Just look at the HSC side of epping
More info for those interested in Hornsby. The magic numbers over each building is the number of floors. So both Westfield buildings are going up to 36 floors?
https://yoursay.hornsby.nsw.gov.au/hornsby-town-centre-masterplan
More info for those interested in Hornsby. The magic numbers over each building is the number of floors. So both Westfield buildings are going up to 36 floors?
https://yoursay.hornsby.nsw.gov.au/hornsby-town-centre-masterplan
As someone who grew up in this area.
The entire Western side of the trainline needs to be annihilated and rebuilt. It's old as fuck, literally a fire hazard and needs to be heavily modernized. We don't call it the "old side of hornsby" for nothing. All of the shops should be relocated to ground floors and all of it should be medium density to high density apartments IMO. Make sure the sound proofing is great and you're golden.
Westfield aint going anywhere, its an essential part of the area.
Do agree the industrial area needs to go.
Who wants a bet these high rises will be packed full of 1 or 2 bedder shoebox apartments for investment. Not the ones that can properly house a family i.e. forever homes
Yup just you watch.
Should be mandatory to make at least 50% of them 3+ bedrooms so families can buy them.
None of them should be studio sizes. Want a studio? Go live near a uni or in the city. This is a 40min commute from the city where families want to live. Therefore the housing MUST accommodate that.
Given the price in hornsby too. Chances are even the 2 bedders will be 700 - 800K as well. So forget getting something cheap.... And by cheap i mean 500K...
That’s cause there’s no demand for it.
Most people would rather buy an old 4 bedder they can fix up 5-10 years later than a 4 bedder apartment and pay 10-20k in strata a year.
There's plenty of demand, just not a lot of supply, and what supply there is consists of mostly poorly-laid out garbage. Though I do agree that insane strata doesn't help.
Apartments (and houses I suppose) were bigger in the 80s and 90s and there were 3 bedders that were fine. This was before housing skyrocketed and became an investment addiction though
Honestly I'm not holding my breath for this happening in my life time. I'm still waiting on the promise pre Olympics to re-tar parra Rd from lidcombe to parra lol.
Edit to add maybe starting from flemington, haven't been that ways in a while but still fukn pothole-ish
Strange video there in the article. Very polished, music in the background, stock imagery like a plane on the runway overpass at General Holmes Drive exactly as he's talking about people leaving, sweeping shots of Melb & Bris.
Totally a party PR piece.
Interesting the contradiction, first linking low density to high prices, then later saying essentially we're going to drip feed small amounts of housing which will make massive differences?
Also LOL @ "then young people will open clubs" as if NSW hasn't been the fun police for the past decade and anyone can afford to go out anyway.
My area (near Bella Vista station) has been earmarked for a microcity. The community groups are not happy. I don’t mind it if we can get more shops and restaurants in the hills.
Sounds fantastic. Lots of other world cities have similar versions of this going on and it always strikes me that Aussie cities feel so sparse and car dependent. My only hope is that things like hospitals and schools can keep pace. People in many of these areas will fight these changes though and prefer that we do nothing at all.
Sydney is really a sprawl of smaller cities (Penrith, Parramatta, Blacktown, Liverpool, Campbelltown, Hornsby all count as their own cities) but because all the business is in the CBD every other city is just built to compliment Sydney
>People in many of these areas will fight these changes though and prefer that we do nothing at all.
Not as many as you'd think, honestly. The population of NIMBYs is dying out and the newer residents want density.
Have you read the comments here? Reddit isn't flush with boomers, but it's flush with their kids who will inherit their assets and don't want any additional housing supply next to them.
Where I live in Sydney's inner west, most of the residents are renters. When they have local meetings about proposed developments, projects, etc, it's basically a bunch of millennials speaking in favour of change against a tiny portion of geriatric fucks who are angry about every change to the area since they bought in 19-dickety-two. There is also a sizable amount of boomer residents who are worried about housing for their kids, and are in therefore in favour of proper density.
I honestly think the housing crisis and demographics are now to the point where, in the city at least, nimbyism is much less of a factor than it was even a decade ago.
I really hope Chris Minns and future premiers grow a spine and veto all of the NIMBY's who are crying about this. WE NEED housing or else sydney is FUCKED long term. Everyone is going to leave otherwise. It's already happening. NIMBY's need to be told to shut the fuck up and get over it because no amount of lobbying will fix it.
All of these NIMBY's are home owners too and i'm sure they want to keep the value of their homes. Either we build more or tank the value so people can buy existing stuff. Can't have it both ways.
Because we don’t want shitty housing and cities.
Our people just want to buy houses they grew up in.
Expansion needs to happen but after we sort out the monopoly players.
Part of the problem is actually us.
They do say “build it and they will come” but our deliberate societal policy (over many decades) is to be a bunch of nimbys who think of “the city” as the place people disappear into to work and the come back out to the suburbs to stay.
If you want a quick fix though- demand that any apartment complex built under this plan must be at least 2 bedroom and 90sqm living space, with a bias toward 3 and 4 bedroom apartments.
You can in fact live a family oriented life in a 3 or 4 bedder, and you can even manage one kid in a two bedder, provided the living space approaches 100sqm.
There's some good stuff in the TOD plans, particularly around shortening the period to commence works from 5 years to two.
Creating the SSD pathway is interesting, but the state government is setting the same benchmark for itself that councils already have of 90 days, which are likely to blow out for the same reasons that council-assessed DAs do - applicants taking forever to respond to RFIs.
I'll also be interested to see whether the private sector bites. CBRE has already said they want apartment prices to go up by another 30% to ensure commercial viability, it's not clear that the government plans address this.
increase apartment prices by 30% .. interested to know how that supports the creation of affordable housing that is not black roofed hot boxes 3km from the nearest functional bus stop
They've changed the definition of affordable housing in the last year. It used to be housing that didn't cost more than 30% of your pay cheque, now it's housing that's 25% under the market rate
So push prices up by 30%, then make it 'affordable' and you're right back where we are now. For the affordable ones. Great
The continual problem with all these speeded up approvals is the we just end up with crumbling architecture, wghich costs everyone for decades to come.
Only if the properties are released fairly regularly it will provide some relief, builders are known to hold on to properties/ lots before even constructing to maintain the scarcity.
Nothing that I've seen planned for sydney in the last decade or so has come to reality.
They wanted to have multiple tech centers, not to have everything in the CBD, and that never really took off.
They wanted to have 3 cities connected by 30 minutes in public transport, that never took off.
Darling harbour has been reimagined a few times, never been really successful.
And so on...
They never really even tried to have multiple cbds, they just said they wanted it. But then never built what you'd need for such a thing.
Also re:Darling Harbour, I'd very much disagree. The new Darling Square area is fantastic and flows well into Darling Harbour, which looks like it'll have a great new hospo area when the construction is over.
Tech Center, in Central, is a dead project basically. All the popups at eddie avenue are gone now. Empty places everywhere.
They wanted to create this massive economy around Quantum Terminal in central, never happened.
The CBD used to have way many more flagship companies, now they have much less.
There is a few up north, but dying out.
And that's it...
Where is silicon beach? It's been promised since 2008.
Darling Harbour failed with sega...
Then they demolished and renew the whole area in 2009 or so. Not sure if it was worth it.
For example: What are two or three amazing places to visit there?
Nothing there is remarkable, at all, in my mind at least.
It definitely sounds like you haven't been to the area in a decade at least. All those project you mentioned were indeed failures, but they're all from the 00s. In modern times, the changes they've made have been pretty good. George Street is completely changed and has been a great way to revitalise a large part of the CBD, and at night it's quite busy all along the rail line from Chinatown to Circular Quay.
As for Darling Harbour, the new Darling Square is fantastic and always bustling. It's an entire plaza with a good range of restaurants, and bordered by laneways with popular eateries. The whole place is a perfect model for how to develop an urban area.
There's also the playground area further up by tumbalong park, which is always crowded with families, and that leads right along in one direction past places like Pump House and Harajuku brewery and the other direction up to the waterfront, where they've demolished the old tacky shopping centre and will put in a new mixed-use area similar to the Darling Square development.
Then on the eastern side you have Barangaroo, which has a number of restaurants and venues and is always popular at night, especially on weekends, and during the day has a lot of people walking up through the reserve which is absolutely gorgeous.
A lot has changed in the last 15 years, I suggest you check it out.
The problem with Sydney is that most of this kind of change is happening only in the CBD and immediate surrounds, while the outer areas they are meant to have the other 2 CBDs aren't getting much. The Parra light rail is definitely a great development, but the rest of the west hasn't really gotten much. And Parra is still mostly chain restaurants and a Westfield.
I go there at least once a month, and walk around it almost daily, and I still think Darling Harbour is a failed area.
It could have been such a world class entertainment area, right next to the water, but there are only shitty restaurants and tourist traps.
By the way, a ticket for imax is $40.
And yeah, not a fan of barangaroo either.
But the Circular Quay redevelopment is fantastic though, all that new Quay Quarter is great.
>It could have been such a world class entertainment
What does this actually mean though? In all my experience living in many other countries before migrating to Australia, a typical night out in a major world city involves going to good restaurants, then hitting good bars and/or clubs, then going home late night or early morning.
Sydney nightlife is shit but it's getting better after a decade of sabotage, and the entire zone from Darling Quarter to Barangaroo is bustling at night, with lots of places to go.
It was dumb to put an IMAX in Darling Harbour, I'll definitely agree. No one goes to the cinema anymore, and it's not an experience that needs to be located in an area meant for socialising. It would have been better to just provide more public space and more venues instead.
But besides that, they've done a good job of developing the area, and they're building more where harbourside used to be. I frequently take my daughter to the playground on a weekend, then have a great lunch somewhere and let her run around. Then we hop on the light rail and go home.
On the occasional Friday night, I'll meet up with some friends for dinner and drinks, sometimes leading over into Chinatown or to the light rail and on to Surry Hills.
Like I said earlier, I just don't know what else you'd want in such a space that isn't already there or in the works.
The real problem is that Sydney culture overall is hostile to night life, and tends to also favour suburban sprawl when developing outer areas, so we have a lot of people with nothing to do in their suburb who then crowd into the city and expect a life-changing experience that can never be lived up to.
we've seem some very promising planning on this scale, then watched it get scaled back on all the community facilities once the profitable part of the development is done.
See all those small CBDs out there that call themselves cities? Liverpool, Fairfield, Blacktown, etc etc. they’re all micro coties at one point that hoped to develop but really only peaked at having a Westfield, if that!. They’ve mostly been cbd’s with two story max building since the 80s. There’s really only just Sydney CBD and parra is the microcity. And unlike other cities in the world, nobody really lives in Sydney CBD. They merely commute there for work or a night out. With our current prices, the hopes of another coty are slim and none
Like there hasn't already been enough high density crap housing thrown up around Hornsby and Macquarie park.
Are they going to improve the associated infrastructure (schools, roads etc) before they pull this shit? I bet not.
*shakes head*
2 bedroom apartment works, 1 bedroom is honestly not worth building. If you're well off and single, you want a bit of space, somewhere for friends to stay over, space in the event you ever have a partner and a kid, or even just somewhere for your hobby. For a married couple, 1 bed only makes sense if they don't have kids, but you have the problem of feeling cramped doubled so no sane couple would want it if they could afford anything else.
I'd go 1bedroom rn if it was affordable, but long term I realistically want three rooms (living, bedroom, office/spare bed), kitchen and bathroom. Otherwise I don't care if it's crammed into a giant building with 5000 others or out on half an acre as long as I have parking or public transport.
2 bedroom isn't viable as a long-term home for families though. I have a family of 3 in a 2 bedroom right now and it's okay, but it's not ideal for the long term as we want another kid, maybe 2 more. We could have a 2 bedder while the kids are little, but it's gonna be tough to have 2 or 3 teens, plus 2 adults, all in a 2 bedroom apartment clearly designed to be rented by yuppies or a couple of uni kids.
There is no reason that our apartment blocks shouldn't have a mandatory minimum amount of 3 and 4 bedroom units. It is simply poor policy and inefficient use of land to shuffle all families off to suburban detached home car parks simply because we value developer and investor returns more than the ongoing viability of our city
yeah means sweet fuck all when 99% of corporate INSIST of being located in the CBD and won't even remotely consider areas like parramatta or penrith which are both considered "CBD" areas.
Both Sydney and Melbourne are big places. Blacktown is the largest LGA (2nd??) in NSW. It has a similar population to the NT and about half the population of the ACT.
Any place that has 200,000 people odd should have some automy.
If both Sydney and Melbourne could be devolved into several smaller entities each being about 250-300,000 people. It may simplify democracy .
I am bordering right of one of these areas - just had a little read of https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/plans-for-your-area/priority-growth-areas-and-precincts/sydney-metro-northwest-urban-renewal-corridor/kellyville-and-bella-vista
The traffic is already horrific (1 way lane in/out of the area they want to rezone to high density). The schools area already busting (school enrolment zones just changed and my son will have to go to a high school further away than our local that my oldest goes to currently).
I’ll have a longer read and voice my concerns I guess …
The entire concept of a 'precinct' is ridiculous. There is precious little value in clustering all of one type of activity in one area and making everyone travel there. Spread it all out.
Er... really? If you live within walking distance of a train station - I would have thought there would be far less reason to buy and therefore have to park a car.
Also access to shops and just... you know - cafes and nice places to go.
Which equates to... vibrant neighbourhoods?
I absolutely loathe endless suburban wastelands. Such a cultural vacuum. Bring on density, buzz, street-life, etc...
Or is there actually some data or planning principle behind your statement?
Confused.
Keen to expand on that thought? I would have thought (like most every other contemporary planner) that clustering, particularly around rail infrastructure makes accessing something like health services or retail, or pubs and clubs much easier.
Is it my imagination or does some variant of this story get chewed up and spat back out every year?
2 CBD model, 3 CBD model, multi CBD model !
I'm seeing the Sydney Opera House superimposed onto Oprah's face.
The Oprah House?
Wasn't it jokingly "renamed" that when she visited Sydney a while back?
If you go on the bridgeclimb there was a funny story they told about her crackiing the shits because the heli doing production photography/filming ran out of fuel so she was more or less stuck up there
I was reading that Sydney has 7 CBDs. I think they are based on numbers, like how they class a "City" in the LGAs. Sydney, North Sydney, Chatswood, Macquarie Park, Parramatta, Liverpool and I can't remember the 7th.
Rotates with news about high speed rail every year
Yeah 10 years ago it was Parra and Penrith being the new CBDs
Thats still there. Kinda. Parra is the government city, Sydney is the history/business city and Bankstown is the commercial city.
Bankstown? Must've changed heaps since I last went. Wasn't any bigger than Hurstville or Liverpool?
https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/plans-for-your-area/priority-growth-areas-and-precincts/western-sydney-aerotropolis
Sydney CBD is the centre of business, legal, finance and commercial real estate in Sydney.
No, Bankstown is within the Central River City, where Parramatta is the regional centre. The future centres are Sydney and Parramatta, with the west being split up amongst Penrith, Campbelltown, Liverpool and Bradfield.
Yep The fact we are living in poorly connected enclaves doesn't mean little cities are emerging Seems a distraction - "don't worry that you'll never move, the fun is coming to you"
Yes the new 10yr plan that gets released every four years.
I first heard of this in the 1990s.
As much as I love the idea of density and less car-centric development - which all of this promises - is there any provision - like ANY - ANYWHERE in these plans to ensure that the housing stock built is of good quality? Like surely smart people behind these decisions are aware of Sydney's atrocious track record of poor quality fast builds and... are going to try to address this problem? Surely???? Anyone seen anything like this anywhere? In fact ARE there mechanisms by which you can ensure better build quality? Or is the only answer ever available to us simply: hand it over to rapacious and couldn't-give-af developers? :/
I’ve been on probably 100+ inspections over the years. I don’t think I’ve ever been inside a unit and thought “wow, it would be amazing to live here.” It’s always “This is what you get for this price. No more. “
I'm saving for a deposit to buy an apartment, because I can't afford a SFH, and sometimes I look at what my budget allows for and want to cry. Half the places I look at don't even have space for a fridge, what the actual fuck?
As a thought experiment, wouldn’t it be wonderful if the major realty apps had comment sections? A space for some counterprogramming and venting? Bring some direct attention to developers and REAs. “Garden photoshopped-inspection showed it’s a muddy mess of sod with an oversized, pet-unfriendly drain”. “Floorplan is pure rubbish. X&Y Architects should be out of business.” “View is neighbouring brickwork.” Save everyone’s precious Saturdays. Investors are the worst. Inspect an owner occupied unit that forced people to improve on the base construction-it’s OK. Investor owned? The doorknob may come off in your hand. (Saw it happen once…still sold for $800k+ in Sydney)
We kinda have this already over at [shitrentals.org](https://shitrentals.org) people post what the condition of rentals are REALLY like. These also go up for sale too from time to time so you can see if the address is on there and get an idea for how the place was actually treated by the previous owner.
I didn’t know! Thanks for this, I’ll check it out
I’ve often thought this. Even for design choices. WHY IS THE ROOM ORIENTATED THIS WAY? DO YOU WATCH TV STANDING UP? It wouldn’t be so hard to scrape the content and build a site for this purpose. Other sites do it already for other reasons.
Comment sections would be wonderful. And yeah, basically the only option for me to own is a cheap apartment. It's very unlikely I'd be buying from an owner occupier. And I'd say 95% of what I look at is being sold by landlords. The complete lack of decor (or, if there's decor, it looks like a photoshopped waiting room) is a dead give away. But every now and then you see listings from owner occupiers who clearly poured their hearts and souls into the place. Painted walls, wallpaper, ornaments that aren't generic... they make the place look so much more attractive than White Painted Closet #451 even though they're just as cramped.
I stand by the fact that leaving sydney is by far the best thing you can do as a FHB. Transfer jobs to literally anywhere else and you'll get a better deal for your money.
Yep. My goal is Melbourne. I wouldn't even consider buying a closet here in Sydney.
Same here. Keep hearing how melbournians think its expensive down there when you can get a free standing house in the west <60mins to the cbd for under 700K lol. Such a thing DOES NOT EXIST AT ALL in sydney. Also a 2 bedder apartment for 400K 30mins from the CBD as well. Thats new and decent too and not a shit box. Too good to pass up imo.
Shit, you can *get* a $400K 2 bedder right smack in the middle of the CBD of Melbourne. You're probably better off with the 30min ones tho bc the CBD apartments are tiny except for the luxury ones. I wanna hold out for a $400K one but I'd have to stay at home a few more years for the deposit, boo.
Get a 10% deposit and you're in. This can easily be achieved in 12 - 18 months of staying at home and rigorously saving.
10% isn't enough. I'm single and the bank will give me only a tiny mortgage. Even with an equity scheme I need a big deposit. I'd need $150K to get, say, a $400K place.
This is not true at all. I'm single and max i can get is 460K from the bank. that means i need at most 46K for a deposit. Would take me less than 12 months of hard saving if i lived at home. You can still buy a 2 bedder apartment in sydney for 460K in places like blacktown or campbelltown. Not the greatest but its something. Get educated on this. People think they need shitloads of cash to enter in. It couldn't be further from the truth.
I used to live in one in North Sydney and I really loved that unit. 2 bedrooms 2 baths. Good quality finishes, very well located and good administration from strata. If I had the money I’d move back but $1.6mil for a 2br unit is outrageous.
This will never happen while housing is seen as an investment to speculate and not a necessity and human right.
It would be nice if they could build apartments that aren’t going to fall down, flood or develop concrete cancer.
yup, we could definitely learn a lot from Japan. The high density apartments in Tokyo with only like one room or even no rooms arent flash by any means but they're at least built to a decent standard of quality to survive an earthquake. Hell, we don't even need to make them as compact or small as Japan, but if we built to Japan's standards I would be happy.
We don't even need to learn from Japan, just look at places like NYC, Chicago, Toronto, Montreal, DC, etc and you'll find very culturally/historically similar cities with plenty of livable density and walkability.
Hell I even remember visiting apartments in Chile that were 3 bedder with living room and kitchen, the size of a small house basically. But were 10 units stacked on top of each other. Was like 2 units per floor. Was amazing. Other than the balcony you wouldn't even know from the space. And it wasn't just the odd one at the top that cost 2m.
I imagine a no room apartment would not only withstand an earthquake, but also be cheap as. We should get onto that.
cheap to decorate too
You could go minimalistic. Marie Kondo the shit out of it.
I saw one apartment that used a bunch of ikea cabinetslaid down as a bed (with a futon on top) interesting way to change the layout of the room and add a lot of storage
As a student I did that, but with milk crates :)
Same here. They really got high density down right. The rooms are comfy, well insulated, small but enough to fit the essentials. Australians would reject it in droves as we are used to "big things" but i'd happily live in a 1LDK if it was cheap enough and in the middle of the CBD.
Nah, just sell them to overseas investors trying to hide money from their governments busy hands. No one actually lives in these places, people just exist in them.
Good, cheap, fast. Pick two. Applies to housing as well my friend. I’d say redditors are in the “cheap and fast” camp.
Downvotes are unjustified. You've laid out the triangle taught in every project management course and it applies to every kind of project, not only building. There's always a tradeoff and you need to decide what to sacrifice or how to balance it. Cheap + fast = low quality Cheap + quality = be prepared to wait ages Quality + fast = will cost a ton The 4th slider is scope. Here we're assuming a fixed scope (design).
My guy good or fast doesn't exist in that triangle, it's cheapest or cheapestest (to build not to buy ofc)and thats it
In housing, it 100% does. It’s almost always applied to housing, trades, etc. If I want my house built next month and I want it to be the best house in Australia, I’m going to have to pay a lot of money for that. Swap these analogies out as you see fit. Mass-developers have never built high quality or artisanal homes. The old homes we all gawk at were built by the wealthy people of the day. Those people still exist today, and they still build beautiful big homes today. A lot of the old homes you see around are just cheap homes (of the era) maintained well, and generally speaking, if a structure lasts over a year, it’s going to be there long after we’re all gone — as long as it’s maintained to a basic degree.
So what you saying is a median house can't be built good or fast but can be built at an over-hyperinflated price that is either good OR fast making it no longer a median house... Essentially saying exactly what I said but with more words that good or fast doesn't exist in that triangle, it's cheapest or cheapestest (to build not to buy)and thats it
> If I want my house built next month and I want it to be the best house in Australia, I’m going to have to pay a lot of money for that. If you want a house built five years from now and spend a shitton of money on it, it will still be shit because why would a company use that money on materials when they can cut costs and make a bigger profit without compromising legal standards?
Sounds good but we need better quality. I’ve been to 20 apartments and so far I’ve found half have bad defects or are maintained badly. The building commissioner has said more than 50% of apartments are badly built too. I don’t want to be bankrupt over an apartment …
> or are maintained badly. that's what happens when these things are ultimately designed by and built for investors....maintenance is an extra cost they as majority nope down on pretty early in the strata meetings....I mean what do they care, they don't live there.
I’m stuck in this situation atm. I’m one of the only owner-occupiers in the building. The other owners treat the capital works fund like it’s still their money, which will be reimbursed to them one day (they’re holding out hope this place will get knocked down by developers). If they do any meaningful maintenance, it’s only after months of me nagging or when it’s become an emergency (hello, gas leak). It’s so frustrating living in a building dominated by slumlord investors.
You can buy good quality apartments, they just cost 10-15% more.
Try telling that to the people who bought mascot towers or any other apartment owners that paid over 600k.
600k gets you a low quality, my child.
Entertainment precinct in Sydney = gambling den that happens to also sell shit beer, a donut chain store, and a Hungry Jacks with a playground.
Some of those gambling dens have decent beer. I know Bankstown Sports Club has a brewery in the basement, and Club Rivers has a craft beer bar.
So looking at the rendering for Hornsby, they’re proposing to: 1. Demolish Hornsby Westfield to build units, 2. Demolish the Heritage Protected Buildings on the Hornsby Western Side of the railway station 3. Demolish the Hornsby Industrial Complex’s on George and Hunter Streets Yeah this is going to go over well…
Yea I was trying to get my head around what would have to go in Hornsby to build what is proposed as well?
I think it's more likely the Westfield be renovated (probably significantly) to support apartments on top.
i mean, it worked for Top Ryde...
I'd be ok with this but chances are they will cost an arm and a leg. The apartments on top of rouse hill town centre and ryde are insanely expensive for what you get. I'd love to live on top of westfield though, providing parking is not a cunt. Would be convienient as hell having all of that below you. Would seriously consider selling the car tbh.
Check out what happened with eastgardens and the fuckton of meritons next door. They jammed so much stuff in there theres traffic jams just to get out every morning. Oh and btw rentals start at 750 for a 1br cos they can
Yup. They love laying on the "convenience tax" hard with these types of apartments.
5500 new dwellings are going somewhere. We got a joyful newsletter from our Lord and saviour, Phillip Ruddock (mayor) telling us this news but with zero detail. Have been wondering where they would be built.
I found it funny watching the news tonight and seeing Phil change his tune because of the lack of other amenities being included. Despite anyone with a brain seeing that there wouldn’t be anything about extra amenities from the get go, which Ruddock seems to have missed.
I thought they were reclaiming (or the council was planning to, I should say) a bunch of old railway land? This is based on my elderly Mum's comments, she lives there.
I think there's a multi level car park going over the existing car park. Maybe that's a part of it with a residential tower.
Yeah maybe? I was thinking it was in that stretch just north of the Station itself but that doesn't match the new master plan. There's also an empty site next to the RSL (where the Covid testing place was) which I thought was going to turn into to oldies supported living but AFAIK it's still empty.
There was talk of building over the station like Chatswood but that doesn't seem to be in that image either. Always wondered about that RSL land. I'll see if I can find some more details.
I had a quick google and there was something about them extending the [allowed height for the RSL](https://yoursay.hornsby.nsw.gov.au/plan-prop-hornsby-rsl) as well as the empty block so I guess they've been planning redevelopment for a while.
A few months ago there was an open exhibition with the plans in Hornsby library
There's a heap of info online I've found since this announcement. Not sure how much was available back then. I don't recall any of this discussion at the time and I'm certain much of this will never happen. It's insanely optimistic. I'm surprised my local FB group didn't go off about it. Maybe I missed it. 36 storey towers parked on top of Westfield though...
They seem to want to demolish the RSL which won’t be popular, Hornsby is not exactly swimming in places to get a beer.
With the level of density being proposed I'd rather take the other eating and drinking options that's bound to come with it than the RSL
Good. The RSL is just a pokies haven and has been for decades now. It's no longer about returning servicemen and hasn't been for ages. Hell Berowra RSL is more of an RSL than Hornsby RSL ffs.
But... My cheap pints...
Believe it when I see it. 1. Unless they rebuild Westfield with residential above? 2. Heritage designation means sweet F.A these days 3. This will force businesses out of the area. I don't see points 1&3 happening. Both sides of the train line were already due for multi-tower development, but nothing further has happened as yet.
No way are they shutting down Westfield for the 3-4 years it’ll take to rebuild it
Why is any of this bad? The Westfield won't be demolished, it will be renovated to add height and housing on top. To another point someone else made, more people living there brings more business, doesn't destroy business activity. I'm all for it, if we want to protect the 'bushland shire' we can't be sprawling out.
Westfield Hornsby has a big carpark on the roof, they can’t just slap buildings on top. They will need to restructure the entire building to handle the new 30 storey skyscrapers
Yes I agree, I just don't think they'll demo the whole thing. That's going to eliminate essential shopping options for people in about 20 suburbs north and south while the uplift is being done.
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Yeah, seems a bit ridiculous. But there are a couple of blocks that will be built on in the near future. The “business centre” next to the library will go (to be replaced with an apartment block) which is on the east side as you approach westfield from the footbridge. On the west side, the block with the brothel and gametraders 😭 has had a DA approved but it may run out soon. So there are plans in the pipeline but all quite up in the air. Hornsby council is a keen builder though. Just look at the HSC side of epping
More info for those interested in Hornsby. The magic numbers over each building is the number of floors. So both Westfield buildings are going up to 36 floors? https://yoursay.hornsby.nsw.gov.au/hornsby-town-centre-masterplan
Hornsby is way past the time for some revamp. See no issue with demolishing those run down buildings for some apartments and shops.
More info for those interested in Hornsby. The magic numbers over each building is the number of floors. So both Westfield buildings are going up to 36 floors? https://yoursay.hornsby.nsw.gov.au/hornsby-town-centre-masterplan
As someone who grew up in this area. The entire Western side of the trainline needs to be annihilated and rebuilt. It's old as fuck, literally a fire hazard and needs to be heavily modernized. We don't call it the "old side of hornsby" for nothing. All of the shops should be relocated to ground floors and all of it should be medium density to high density apartments IMO. Make sure the sound proofing is great and you're golden. Westfield aint going anywhere, its an essential part of the area. Do agree the industrial area needs to go.
Oh sweet jesus
Who wants a bet these high rises will be packed full of 1 or 2 bedder shoebox apartments for investment. Not the ones that can properly house a family i.e. forever homes
but property investors need properties to invest in! don't be so selfish
Yup just you watch. Should be mandatory to make at least 50% of them 3+ bedrooms so families can buy them. None of them should be studio sizes. Want a studio? Go live near a uni or in the city. This is a 40min commute from the city where families want to live. Therefore the housing MUST accommodate that. Given the price in hornsby too. Chances are even the 2 bedders will be 700 - 800K as well. So forget getting something cheap.... And by cheap i mean 500K...
That’s cause there’s no demand for it. Most people would rather buy an old 4 bedder they can fix up 5-10 years later than a 4 bedder apartment and pay 10-20k in strata a year.
There's plenty of demand, just not a lot of supply, and what supply there is consists of mostly poorly-laid out garbage. Though I do agree that insane strata doesn't help.
Apartments (and houses I suppose) were bigger in the 80s and 90s and there were 3 bedders that were fine. This was before housing skyrocketed and became an investment addiction though
A lot of things were different back in the 80s and 90s.
Honestly I'm not holding my breath for this happening in my life time. I'm still waiting on the promise pre Olympics to re-tar parra Rd from lidcombe to parra lol. Edit to add maybe starting from flemington, haven't been that ways in a while but still fukn pothole-ish
Strange video there in the article. Very polished, music in the background, stock imagery like a plane on the runway overpass at General Holmes Drive exactly as he's talking about people leaving, sweeping shots of Melb & Bris. Totally a party PR piece. Interesting the contradiction, first linking low density to high prices, then later saying essentially we're going to drip feed small amounts of housing which will make massive differences? Also LOL @ "then young people will open clubs" as if NSW hasn't been the fun police for the past decade and anyone can afford to go out anyway.
My area (near Bella Vista station) has been earmarked for a microcity. The community groups are not happy. I don’t mind it if we can get more shops and restaurants in the hills.
Why are they not happy? Do they not want easily accessible retail, services and transport links?
Overdevelopment, narrow streets and roads, at capacity with schools and other facilities
Sounds fantastic. Lots of other world cities have similar versions of this going on and it always strikes me that Aussie cities feel so sparse and car dependent. My only hope is that things like hospitals and schools can keep pace. People in many of these areas will fight these changes though and prefer that we do nothing at all.
Sydney is really a sprawl of smaller cities (Penrith, Parramatta, Blacktown, Liverpool, Campbelltown, Hornsby all count as their own cities) but because all the business is in the CBD every other city is just built to compliment Sydney
>People in many of these areas will fight these changes though and prefer that we do nothing at all. Not as many as you'd think, honestly. The population of NIMBYs is dying out and the newer residents want density.
Have you read the comments here? Reddit isn't flush with boomers, but it's flush with their kids who will inherit their assets and don't want any additional housing supply next to them.
Where I live in Sydney's inner west, most of the residents are renters. When they have local meetings about proposed developments, projects, etc, it's basically a bunch of millennials speaking in favour of change against a tiny portion of geriatric fucks who are angry about every change to the area since they bought in 19-dickety-two. There is also a sizable amount of boomer residents who are worried about housing for their kids, and are in therefore in favour of proper density. I honestly think the housing crisis and demographics are now to the point where, in the city at least, nimbyism is much less of a factor than it was even a decade ago.
I really hope Chris Minns and future premiers grow a spine and veto all of the NIMBY's who are crying about this. WE NEED housing or else sydney is FUCKED long term. Everyone is going to leave otherwise. It's already happening. NIMBY's need to be told to shut the fuck up and get over it because no amount of lobbying will fix it. All of these NIMBY's are home owners too and i'm sure they want to keep the value of their homes. Either we build more or tank the value so people can buy existing stuff. Can't have it both ways.
Yeah look honestly - I think it needs doing, although it came up at my gen-X dominated boot camp this morning and I was the only one in favour of it.
Because we don’t want shitty housing and cities. Our people just want to buy houses they grew up in. Expansion needs to happen but after we sort out the monopoly players.
Part of the problem is actually us. They do say “build it and they will come” but our deliberate societal policy (over many decades) is to be a bunch of nimbys who think of “the city” as the place people disappear into to work and the come back out to the suburbs to stay. If you want a quick fix though- demand that any apartment complex built under this plan must be at least 2 bedroom and 90sqm living space, with a bias toward 3 and 4 bedroom apartments. You can in fact live a family oriented life in a 3 or 4 bedder, and you can even manage one kid in a two bedder, provided the living space approaches 100sqm.
And there’s a decent kitchen and laundry. Why is it so poplar to have cupboards for both these days and no bench space
Oh absolutely, a proper kitchen (a French laundry is okay) is a must
There's some good stuff in the TOD plans, particularly around shortening the period to commence works from 5 years to two. Creating the SSD pathway is interesting, but the state government is setting the same benchmark for itself that councils already have of 90 days, which are likely to blow out for the same reasons that council-assessed DAs do - applicants taking forever to respond to RFIs. I'll also be interested to see whether the private sector bites. CBRE has already said they want apartment prices to go up by another 30% to ensure commercial viability, it's not clear that the government plans address this.
increase apartment prices by 30% .. interested to know how that supports the creation of affordable housing that is not black roofed hot boxes 3km from the nearest functional bus stop
They've changed the definition of affordable housing in the last year. It used to be housing that didn't cost more than 30% of your pay cheque, now it's housing that's 25% under the market rate So push prices up by 30%, then make it 'affordable' and you're right back where we are now. For the affordable ones. Great
The continual problem with all these speeded up approvals is the we just end up with crumbling architecture, wghich costs everyone for decades to come.
Entertainment precincts? So some mix of a GYG, Grill'd and a chain pizza place below a bunch of units ? Sounds lively
Only if the properties are released fairly regularly it will provide some relief, builders are known to hold on to properties/ lots before even constructing to maintain the scarcity.
Nothing that I've seen planned for sydney in the last decade or so has come to reality. They wanted to have multiple tech centers, not to have everything in the CBD, and that never really took off. They wanted to have 3 cities connected by 30 minutes in public transport, that never took off. Darling harbour has been reimagined a few times, never been really successful. And so on...
They never really even tried to have multiple cbds, they just said they wanted it. But then never built what you'd need for such a thing. Also re:Darling Harbour, I'd very much disagree. The new Darling Square area is fantastic and flows well into Darling Harbour, which looks like it'll have a great new hospo area when the construction is over.
Tech Center, in Central, is a dead project basically. All the popups at eddie avenue are gone now. Empty places everywhere. They wanted to create this massive economy around Quantum Terminal in central, never happened. The CBD used to have way many more flagship companies, now they have much less. There is a few up north, but dying out. And that's it... Where is silicon beach? It's been promised since 2008. Darling Harbour failed with sega... Then they demolished and renew the whole area in 2009 or so. Not sure if it was worth it. For example: What are two or three amazing places to visit there? Nothing there is remarkable, at all, in my mind at least.
It definitely sounds like you haven't been to the area in a decade at least. All those project you mentioned were indeed failures, but they're all from the 00s. In modern times, the changes they've made have been pretty good. George Street is completely changed and has been a great way to revitalise a large part of the CBD, and at night it's quite busy all along the rail line from Chinatown to Circular Quay. As for Darling Harbour, the new Darling Square is fantastic and always bustling. It's an entire plaza with a good range of restaurants, and bordered by laneways with popular eateries. The whole place is a perfect model for how to develop an urban area. There's also the playground area further up by tumbalong park, which is always crowded with families, and that leads right along in one direction past places like Pump House and Harajuku brewery and the other direction up to the waterfront, where they've demolished the old tacky shopping centre and will put in a new mixed-use area similar to the Darling Square development. Then on the eastern side you have Barangaroo, which has a number of restaurants and venues and is always popular at night, especially on weekends, and during the day has a lot of people walking up through the reserve which is absolutely gorgeous. A lot has changed in the last 15 years, I suggest you check it out. The problem with Sydney is that most of this kind of change is happening only in the CBD and immediate surrounds, while the outer areas they are meant to have the other 2 CBDs aren't getting much. The Parra light rail is definitely a great development, but the rest of the west hasn't really gotten much. And Parra is still mostly chain restaurants and a Westfield.
I go there at least once a month, and walk around it almost daily, and I still think Darling Harbour is a failed area. It could have been such a world class entertainment area, right next to the water, but there are only shitty restaurants and tourist traps. By the way, a ticket for imax is $40. And yeah, not a fan of barangaroo either. But the Circular Quay redevelopment is fantastic though, all that new Quay Quarter is great.
>It could have been such a world class entertainment What does this actually mean though? In all my experience living in many other countries before migrating to Australia, a typical night out in a major world city involves going to good restaurants, then hitting good bars and/or clubs, then going home late night or early morning. Sydney nightlife is shit but it's getting better after a decade of sabotage, and the entire zone from Darling Quarter to Barangaroo is bustling at night, with lots of places to go. It was dumb to put an IMAX in Darling Harbour, I'll definitely agree. No one goes to the cinema anymore, and it's not an experience that needs to be located in an area meant for socialising. It would have been better to just provide more public space and more venues instead. But besides that, they've done a good job of developing the area, and they're building more where harbourside used to be. I frequently take my daughter to the playground on a weekend, then have a great lunch somewhere and let her run around. Then we hop on the light rail and go home. On the occasional Friday night, I'll meet up with some friends for dinner and drinks, sometimes leading over into Chinatown or to the light rail and on to Surry Hills. Like I said earlier, I just don't know what else you'd want in such a space that isn't already there or in the works. The real problem is that Sydney culture overall is hostile to night life, and tends to also favour suburban sprawl when developing outer areas, so we have a lot of people with nothing to do in their suburb who then crowd into the city and expect a life-changing experience that can never be lived up to.
we've seem some very promising planning on this scale, then watched it get scaled back on all the community facilities once the profitable part of the development is done.
The 3 cities is locked in and well underway
Can you get to parramata from Martin Place in less than 30 minutes? Maybe with the upcoming Metro?
Parra to Hunter Street will be around 25 minutes.
See all those small CBDs out there that call themselves cities? Liverpool, Fairfield, Blacktown, etc etc. they’re all micro coties at one point that hoped to develop but really only peaked at having a Westfield, if that!. They’ve mostly been cbd’s with two story max building since the 80s. There’s really only just Sydney CBD and parra is the microcity. And unlike other cities in the world, nobody really lives in Sydney CBD. They merely commute there for work or a night out. With our current prices, the hopes of another coty are slim and none
Yep. I see barely any businesses in Liverpool, Cabramatta etc. People are only there out of convenience and cost.
Like there hasn't already been enough high density crap housing thrown up around Hornsby and Macquarie park. Are they going to improve the associated infrastructure (schools, roads etc) before they pull this shit? I bet not. *shakes head*
The high density thrown up in those places isn't fit for purpose. It's almost entirely 1 and 2 bedroom apartments
2 bedroom apartment works, 1 bedroom is honestly not worth building. If you're well off and single, you want a bit of space, somewhere for friends to stay over, space in the event you ever have a partner and a kid, or even just somewhere for your hobby. For a married couple, 1 bed only makes sense if they don't have kids, but you have the problem of feeling cramped doubled so no sane couple would want it if they could afford anything else. I'd go 1bedroom rn if it was affordable, but long term I realistically want three rooms (living, bedroom, office/spare bed), kitchen and bathroom. Otherwise I don't care if it's crammed into a giant building with 5000 others or out on half an acre as long as I have parking or public transport.
2 bedroom isn't viable as a long-term home for families though. I have a family of 3 in a 2 bedroom right now and it's okay, but it's not ideal for the long term as we want another kid, maybe 2 more. We could have a 2 bedder while the kids are little, but it's gonna be tough to have 2 or 3 teens, plus 2 adults, all in a 2 bedroom apartment clearly designed to be rented by yuppies or a couple of uni kids. There is no reason that our apartment blocks shouldn't have a mandatory minimum amount of 3 and 4 bedroom units. It is simply poor policy and inefficient use of land to shuffle all families off to suburban detached home car parks simply because we value developer and investor returns more than the ongoing viability of our city
Nope, why bother right. Keep building carton houses that’ll collapse in 15 years.
yeah means sweet fuck all when 99% of corporate INSIST of being located in the CBD and won't even remotely consider areas like parramatta or penrith which are both considered "CBD" areas.
Imagine having to build new cities because you can’t limit immigration to sustainable levels.
Is this Utopia?
Both Sydney and Melbourne are big places. Blacktown is the largest LGA (2nd??) in NSW. It has a similar population to the NT and about half the population of the ACT. Any place that has 200,000 people odd should have some automy. If both Sydney and Melbourne could be devolved into several smaller entities each being about 250-300,000 people. It may simplify democracy .
Thats why Blacktown needs to be broken up.
Came to the comments to see what my opinion is /s
I am bordering right of one of these areas - just had a little read of https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/plans-for-your-area/priority-growth-areas-and-precincts/sydney-metro-northwest-urban-renewal-corridor/kellyville-and-bella-vista The traffic is already horrific (1 way lane in/out of the area they want to rezone to high density). The schools area already busting (school enrolment zones just changed and my son will have to go to a high school further away than our local that my oldest goes to currently). I’ll have a longer read and voice my concerns I guess …
Up to 65m/19 storey developments in St Leonards? Nice lol
I sure am going to miss the sky..
They’ll build everything except the infrastructure to support it all.
Well a lot of them are on the train and Metro lines.
Govt’s will propose anything but the obvious solutions because the obvious solutions piss off their rich buddies and they’ll never be elected again.
wtf is a micro city? I've always known these things as SATELLITE CITIES... Para and The Gong are Syd's satellite cities.
Sydney's property developers consider all those political donations as money well spent lol
The entire concept of a 'precinct' is ridiculous. There is precious little value in clustering all of one type of activity in one area and making everyone travel there. Spread it all out.
Er... really? If you live within walking distance of a train station - I would have thought there would be far less reason to buy and therefore have to park a car. Also access to shops and just... you know - cafes and nice places to go. Which equates to... vibrant neighbourhoods? I absolutely loathe endless suburban wastelands. Such a cultural vacuum. Bring on density, buzz, street-life, etc... Or is there actually some data or planning principle behind your statement? Confused.
Keen to expand on that thought? I would have thought (like most every other contemporary planner) that clustering, particularly around rail infrastructure makes accessing something like health services or retail, or pubs and clubs much easier.