I was an apple care rep when iCloud and iMessages first released. I remember tons of calls about dad’s text messages going to the kids because the entire family shared one Apple ID lol.
A friend of mine still has his family's iPhones tied to only his iCloud account, instead of them each having one. Every now and then I'll text him and one of his kids or wife will answer from their phone. They're aware, they just don't care.
One of the hosts of a radio show I was listening to was lamenting the fact that sometimes he and his wife get each other's calls and they had no idea why. I was screaming inside my head that it had to have been because they shared an Apple ID.
What's even the point of that? If it's app store purchases, don't they have family sharing?
I got at least one example of why someone would share an account. My boomer mom doesn't have an email address, and she'll probably die before she learns "new age tech," so it's just easier for her to piggy back off my email and accounts if she really needs one.
She literally still drives to the electric company and pays with a check. Old people be wild sometimes!
But on the good news side of things, she's so tech illiterate, that she would never get scammed. She literally will not send, interact, or do anything money related if it's not LITERALLY face to face with a clerk. She inherently thinks it's all scams, which is fine by me, lol!
So if she wants something like Paramount+ or anything online or credit card--it runs through my accounts.
--
A husband/wife duo should be young enough that they would each have their own email, but I could still see if one of them just hates tech, the other can do it.
I do tech for a few law firms. I got called in to consult with a male client in divorce proceedings who was "worried that his ex was hacking his phones".
Asked him to explain his reasoning, and it was something like "she keeps finding out about lawyer contact stuff as soon as we talk about it, like she's reading my phone".
Uh... Do you have an iPhone?
"Yeah I've gotten like two new ones and it keeps happening"
Did you ever share your iCloud info with her?
"Yeah we use the same one"
Case closed. You're a fuckin idiot. No hacking here.
My brother and his goofy narcissist wife are like this. It’s so weird. You can never have a private conversation with him because she’s ALWAYS in on the conversation. I will never understand people that value privacy so little. These phones are an extension of our brains. Even in a relationship, you have to have privacy of thought. We honestly feel like he’s been swept away in a “marriage cult.” He lives out of state and we barely ever talk to him.
Disregarding the potential for abuse and overreach, the best argument I've ever heard for curtailing surveillance and imo a perfect counter to "If you're not doing anything wrong..." is the example of shower singing:
Many of us don't like to sing in public. Maybe we are embarrassed at our skill, maybe we just don't like the attention it would bring. But a lot of the same people *will* sing in the shower, when alone.
We are simply different people when we don't feel surveilled, regardless of whether we are doing anything wrong/illegal or not.
Your brother has obviously been accustomed to always being under observation, and I cannot imagine that it hasn't had an effect on your interactions, but I also imagine it's salvable if he's able to set some boundaries.
the main issue with surveillance is that you cant know what would be deemed "criminal/inappropriate" in the future.
ask the jews that were living in the netherlands when hitler came into power. they were found because they dutch had documents about where the jews lived.
imagine you get put into a concentration camp in like 20 years from now because now you say something thats not an issue at all at this moment.
Yeah Civil records would also list religion together with name and address, dob etc. All religions, not specifically Jewish. Unfortunately this also made it very easy for a bad actor to target a specific religion by just searching through those records as happened in ww2. It's not done anymore, but surprisingly it was only abandoned quite recently. Like in the last 30 years or so.
I've broken off friendships with folks who operate like this. I don't mind being cool with their significant other, but when they start monitoring conversations or chiming in on discussions that don't include them... I'm like "peace out".
Had an old friend who's wife messaged me out of the blue regarding why I didn't talk to her husband anymore. I was like..."Hey....when you let him be an adult again, maybe I'll talk to him, but chiming in on his number ain't cool".
> They also have no friends. Literally none
I also just cut out a pair of friends out of my life (they are a couple) who I used to consider good friends for the last 4 years. They similarly had no concept of boundaries (the guy had access to all of his girlfriend’s social media accounts, banking info, tax info etc) and also had no friends other than me and my partner.
People that have no concept of boundaries find it hard to make friends. It *can* be a sign of narcissism. In my case, I found out that they did in fact have narcissistic traits that ultimately forced us to cut them out.
Just wanna point out social media access and bank/tax info access is wildly different. My wife and I both have access to all bank and tax info cause that’s like one of the main legal parts of marriage. Social media sharing is insane though.
No doubt but I’m guessing you guys waited till you were pretty serious till you shared all that info? Because the guy I knew basically got all this info from his girlfriend within 2-3 months of dating. Even love bombed her within a week of getting to know her. And they had a whole bunch of other red flags which creates a pattern of problematic behaviour.
But yeah, it can be a normal thing for healthy couples to have that kind of access, especially when you have joint finances and whatnot. Sadly not the case with my ex friends lol
Way back in the day my buddy started dating a chick who would check his phone every night and she hated me and another friend so he got a burner phone he left at the office and we only texted during business hours.
Then one day his wife shows up to go to lunch and his fucking assistant goes “hey you forgot your phone and runs up to him with it”. We didn’t hear from him for almost two years
Sounds like he is in an abusive relationship. You would need to contact him in person when he is alone. Just knowing you are willing to help him escape might be enough.
Just got out of a relationship with a woman that was like this. We didn’t share an Apple ID, but she wanted to be the person that everyone talked to in order to make plans with me. Especially other women. Glad I didn’t marry her and get swept away from everyone I know.
My brother’s marriage is like this. His wife controls everything about the family. Controls my brother and the kids. I don’t understand how he turned out like that.
I got a good one. Worked for a company and we had hundreds of iPads to check out. All using one Apple ID. Well we started discovering people using these iPads to take spicy photos all backed up to that one ID. I don’t think anyone ever got formally in trouble but until we switched to everyone getting their own Apple ID we would warn them that these are for work and you should be careful about using it for personal things. It would be pictures of empty lots and construction sites then ass, titties n dicks. 😂
I work in infosec. We don't really care about porn unless it comes up during an investigation and is relevant, or the person is dumb enough to go somewhere that downloads malware or it causes other issues. Once I was working on dealing with some adware someone had on their laptop. I was reviewing logs to ensure nothing worse was downloaded. I found he had been moving copious amounts of porn to and from some personal USB drives (this was before we had software that'd block USB).
I tried to warn him about doing that because it showed up in our logs, by mentioning that he may want to lay off using his work computer to transport "certain files" between drives. I didn't use air quotes, but I put a strong emphasis on it. He didn't pick up on what I was trying to say though, and he goes "Oh, I was moving that stuff for my wife. I'll stop".
I bit my tongue.
How do people not grasp the concept of "keep your work electronics for work" at this point? I won't even let my personal phone connect to the work WiFi.
I was pretty shocked about the Tiktok/other apps on government phones thing. Why TF are people doing that?
Did tech support and was sorting out a HDD. TL;DR old guy had tickle porn all over his pc.
Women in underwear getting tickled with feathers. I don’t kink shame - but I couldn’t wrap my head around it.
Edit:
They were lying face up on a table and had no sounds or movement…. Just blinked…
As someone who used to do remote tech support for users...trust me tickle porn is the least creepy shit you could have found.
Its weird but basically harmless.
I mean, I also did a data recovery job for this woman in her 20’s.
Ended up finding her ‘deleted’ stash of herself. Stayed professional and gave her everything anyway.
As the 'company IT geek', I'd get bothered a lot by people wanting me to "just take a quick look at (whateverHardwareTheyHad/BoughtLastWeekendFromSomeDodgyMarket/etc), enough that my boss had to send out an email to knock it off, we don't have time for fixing some computer you found at the side of the road.
<1 hour after the email went out, Manager of the Import Department wanders in with his son's PC if we could just take a quick look at it, won't take long. /groan.
Was actually curious as it was the first time I'd ever seen one of the Sega PC's up close, and wanted to know how it was at gaming, so we took it on. The Manager followed the boss and me into the 'geek den' with the workbench, got it plonked on the desk, blew out enough dust to refill 1/10th of the Sahara, and got it booting up. First thing, by default, lets just check the temp folder, clear the trashcan, do a defrag, see what files are using the most space, and oh ho! we've found a hidden folder.
The manager was laughing "oh, that's my boy, what's he got?" and I was fully expecting.. dunno, something fairly mild?
Animal porn. The first (and only in a very full folder) video was some chick taking on a horse.
I'm just glad I didn't plug in the speakers.
"well, ok, lets just close that, take it home, see how it goes for the fella, eh?".
Looking back, I don't know what we should have done. No idea if it was legal or not, and this is...25ish years ago. Should we have said "ok, leave it with us" and rummaged through if there was freakier stuff? Just closing it up, handing it over, and never speaking of it again seemed the right thing to do at the time.
Oh, and fixing the chairman's computer. He'd just discovered usenet it appeared. Had some reader in the autorun folder, and as booting up, got a full list of all the channels he was perusing. There were rumours at work what he was into, I knew for sure, but figured it wasn't my place to out him. THAT wasn't anything too bad, looked like he just liked looking at nekkid men, good for him.
Very happy not stumbled into /really/ dark stuff.
I worked on a machine that was a friend of my gf at the time and his bookmarks were LOADED with pro-Hitler articles and dom/scat. Fixed his issues and never went there again.
When I was in tech support I found bestiality on a guy's work unit. I was young and didn't know I should have reported that sick fuck to HR, which I regret in hindsight.
Found CP on a farmer's computer as i was setting up an internet connection. Drove off and called the cops. They needed proof so the guys i worked for turned off his internet, rang him saying "yeah, the tech will be back in an hour, looks like something went wrong."
Using a phone the cops gave me (to avoid having to turn in my phone), i went in, rang my boss, asked him to go reboot the router while i kept tabs on it on my end, snapped some pics, texted to turn his net back on and left.
They grabbed him at the grocery store a few weeks later. Apparently his computer helped them locate one of the producers.
I got a pretty tough stomach, but when i realized what i was looking at i damn near puked. Fotunately i was put in touch with a good therapist.
Don't gather evidence yourself unless the cops need you to, they rarely do, this was just the easiest way to get it without cluing him in. If i hadn't, they were just gonna wiretap his connectikn back at the headend.
I could not have played it as cool as you did. You happened to stumble upon one of the darkest things humanity has to offer. Absolutely horrifying.
Glad it led to a larger arrest and that you are taking care of yourself after such an experience.
I'm one hell of a stoic and pretty neutral when it comes to expressing myself. There was a moment or twp of "oh fuck... that's kids..." before i closed the window and finished the job.
Dude had like... 20 guns in the house. I was being very careful not to let him catch on, and after that i didn't let him leave my sight.
I did have a panic button when i went back. Only reason i felt comfortable. There were at least 3 cops hidden in the bushes nearby.
Dude, you're an awesome human being for doing what you did. Cool and calm even under pressure. I hope that shit never happens to you again.
And you did something good in the world. Cheers man!
I have a similar story too. It was my first day working as an Advanced Repair Technician at GeekSquad. This old guy comes in with his old ASUS gaming laptop stating that he needed his data backed up and the OS reinstalled because he was having issues with Windows.
As we were wrapping up the consultation he mentioned to me that he has porn in his computer, but isn’t sure if it’s considered CP and then asked me if that would be a problem. I immediately finished the check-in process as fast as I could without making it obvious that this was in fact a HUGE problem, waited for the guy to leave the store, and then called my manager so we could call local PD about this.
Local PD arrived a few hours later with a warrant to take the laptop. A week or two later, they had us call him back to the store so they could arrest him when he went to pick up the laptop.
I didn’t see the contents of laptop, but just knowing that I was talking to somebody who consumes that content absolutely disgusted me.
It was *very* hard to keep the customer service look going while i knew that, had a wire in my pocket (i.e. the phone was recording audio, just in case) and a panic button. I got out and basically just went to the nearest town with the cops and we had some coffee and we talked things over a bit. One of em reccommended me a good therapisf he knew had helped other officers in the past, and i was talking to him for a while. Really helped.
Good lord that’s a rough way to be involved. I was working an entry level tech support job years ago and we caught a guy with CP and turned him in.
But luckily for us we were running some virus scans with Linux bootable discs so all we were seeing were the file names in CLI. That was enough for us to call the cops, hand over the computer with notes of where to look and his info including credit card info etc… no one I worked with ever had to see any of the pics.
Oh i voulenteered after talking to my boss. We had a way in and he trusted me at least a little, so i figured i had the best chamce at not tipping him off.
It was a catch 22 for him, either he didn't cat h on and i left with him none the wiser, or he did, i hit the oh shit swit h they gave me, and at thay point my job was "get the fuck out, or get the fuck down, because we're coming in."
Fortunately, my customer service face is *stronk*.
Omg kudos to you. Seriously hats off. I know it was the only right thing to do, and I’m sorry for how it undoubtedly has affected you, but I’m incredibly thankful you did it. After listening to the “hunting warhead” podcast (and having 3 small kids), I have incredible gratitude for the forces out there fighting CP.
I bumped into that podcast as a result of interests in both true crime and communications technologies. It was simultaneously captivating and distressing. I still think about it from time to time. It truly boggles the mind that there are such cruel uncaring people in the world, and that given such markets exist, they are around us everyday.
Not many podcasts are capable of affecting the listener as profoundly as this one. The other pods in the same series (CBC Discover i think?) are all similarly well researched, and thankfully not as gut-wrenching.
Okay, that it’s “Stephen Fry presents” is just fucking funny.
As for the content… What the fuuuuuck. The initial premise of what they were trying to look into is like that joke in *Bigmouth* about competitive nipple twisting. That the rabbit-hole went deeper is, somehow, both entirely unsurprising and shocking.
> A follow-up special, *The Tickle King*, aired on HBO in February 2017
Okay, how do they green light that title with a straight face, tho
I had a partner for a short time who loved to be tickled. I'm pretty open so we incorporated it into sex. It was actually really fun and hot. Laughing just added a really lighthearted air to it all. I already enjoy laughing and sex cause sex is silly. But I was very surprised at my reaction. We had some wild chemistry.
Ever since I was a little girl I’ve had a recurring nightmare about being tickled by a demon wearing the face of people I know/love. I’m with you on this sounding like a horror movie…
Back around 2011, if you had an Apple Store transfer your profile from old Mac to new Mac (at least in our store) - you would launch every app in the iLife suite once to A) confirm the data transferred and B) make sure any lingering processes were wrapped up.
Part of providing a seamless migration to the consumer.
Buuuut.
When you first launch iPhoto - it asks if you want it to handle all your photos. Our process was to say yes to this step.
So it would scan the computer for ever. Single. Photo.
And show them as they ingested.
So yeah. Lots of homemade nudity and porn folders would get synced into the iPhoto Library.
Can’t imagine how many domestic arguments that triggered.
I worked in Apple Store when this all went down we saw an increase in two types of customers
- very upset husbands and wives
- very upset parents of teenagers
R144 for any other past employees
Had that with a guy in Afghanistan. Was running a photo slide show of pictures from the ground on his new iPad on the big screen when his unit came in from the ground after a couple of months out. Connected it to the internet for the first time in months and the photos his wife had taken on her phone started coming up too.
heh I remember a bit of ones like that, always interesting. Not always family, like in this instance texts or photos, sometimes embarrasing ones to non-significant others.
Also remember using bomgar (apple's remote software, not sure if they still use it) and this poor older dude was having itunes music sync issues. Was casually pulling up his iTunes and had his videos pulled up. Dude had a bunch of porn. Obviously didn't say anything and was just like "okay click on music..."
Funny thing is I recognized a few based on just the thumbnails lmao. Dude at least had some good tastes.
I also work for Apple and I cannot tell you how many issues we have because people come in and don't understand that they should have their own individual Apple IDs.
Like, people set up their accounts incorrectly sharing an Apple ID with several other people and then get mad at us because their shit isn't working the way it's intended to. When we tell them they need to make their own individual apple IDs, they act like we're telling them they need to get kidney surgery or something. It's wild how apples entire business model is making technology accessible and easy to use, and yet somehow that only causes people to be even less technologically literate and get even more upset when they do things that make the devices work incorrectly.
I think this is kind of a consequence of apple’s original decision to not support user profiles on the iPad. When the first iPad came out, people were screaming for user profiles like they had on Mac, but apple was like “nah, you each need to buy your own iPad”.
This happens to my family *constantly* because we still all share the one ID. Fortunately all anyone ever texts is “hey Amanda are we going to Costco next week”
Delete should mean delete, despite this guy’s shitty motivations.
I have groups I’ve deleted from iMessage and then I make a new group a month later and it remembers the old one.
This has happened to me too. Also, I've noticed on many occasions exactly what the guy in the article experienced: I delete a thread on one device, but the thread remains on some - but not all - other linked devices. Biggest culprit is my Apple Watch. If I had to guess I'd say that maybe 10% of the time I delete a thread on my Mac or iPhone, it's still there on my AW.
Been there man, hang in there. It’s hard to throw in the towel on the hard work you’ve done after the first round but great to finally make the call and put your foot down.
Cheers to brighter days ahead and finding your new level.
Ugh I'm sorry man, I know it's painful as all hell but glad to hear you're making the right moves to move on.
Truth be told, if someone can justify cheating on their partner once, they'll very likely do so again - it's emblematic of a lack of moral character & getting caught/feeling bad about it really can't fix that character trait.
Just take things one day at a time (one hour at a time if necessary) & stay busy, productivity/self-improvement is best but you won't always have the motivation & in those times just stay busy, preferably being around friends &/or doing an activity you enjoy.
For me it's going absolutely ham on disc golf, which if you need a new hobby it's very low barrier to entry, free after getting discs, & involves hiking!
But remember, in the words of Mike Ehrmentraut, one day you'll wake up, brush your teeth, & not even think about the trauma, & when *that* happens, you'll know that you can forget/let go.
Wishing you all the best, my friend!
Is it supposed to delete across devices? I've deleted stuff from my phone cause I don't want large videos taking up device space, but those same texts are fine on my Mac. Not everyone has the same reasons for deleting old messages and don't necessarily want it wiped clean from everything. Just as I don't want my notifications silenced on my computer just because my phone is silenced. Just as I don't want pictures from the photo album I delete from my phone wiped clean on everything else.
It seems like most people think deleting should be across devices, but I personally prefer devices with separate functions.
That’s how cloud applications are supposed to be architected, generally speaking. It’s weird to have multiple versions of the truth on different devices.
That is true IF you have Messages in iCloud enabled on both devices. If you only enable Messages but not Messages in iCloud, then those messages can be seen by each device but the deletions will not sync. https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud/set-up-messages-mm0de0d4528d/icloud. If you check the article for Messages (https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/delete-messages-and-attachments-iph2c9c4bfcb/ios), you'll find at the bottom "If you use [Messages in iCloud](https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/set-up-messages-iph3d039b67/17.0/ios/17.0#iph6fc6b7653), deleting a message or conversation on your iPhone deletes it from all your devices where Messages in iCloud is on."
Yea i hate to back this guy but i think he has a case. Especially if hes paying alimony and child support. Imagine if he passes those costs to apple lmao
If I was the ex wife I'd be telling him to sue too.
Like "I hate you, but apple is worth gazillions. Sue them,get that money, we split it (for the kids) and die rich."
> Sue them,get that money, we split it (for the kids) and die rich.
There's a romcom in there where during the lawsuit they fall back in love and retire on the massive settlement
This technical 'glitch' cost him a lot of money, but thats not really what the case is decided on. What he has to prove is that Apple was negligent **specifically in regards to returning supposedly-deleted messages to spouses** and not simply guilty of poor coding or unclear feature implementation. He has to prove that apple knew BOTH about the technical problem AND about the potential harm it could cause.
> He has to prove that apple knew BOTH about the technical problem
What if Apple pretends it's not a problem and refuses to acknowledge it? That's very convenient for them.
It’s not really a glitch though. Apple has support pages about this exact issue. If you have two devices and one of them is synced to iCloud but the other isn’t. Then they will both get the message. But if you delete it, it won’t delete on the non-iCloud set up device.
It sounds like this is exactly what happened.
He's got a point. What if you were an abused spouse and sent messages to a friend explaining the situation, then you delete them expecting privacy, only for your partner to discover those messages and beat you to death.
While his situation is immorale to most, Apple's actions cannot be ignored. If you can't see a situation where having deleted messages resurface could be bad, you simply lack imagination.
That recent “bug” where deleted photos popped back up, actually happened to me. It was insane to see pics I deleted ages ago. Terrifying actually. I can’t believe this shit isn’t actually deleted. I’m not even in any cloud. It’s not like I deleted them from a cloud. I just deleted them from my phone. But nope. They’re back… never went anywhere.. totally insane.
I read somewhere (can't find it now, of course) that it wasn't a case of you deleting something and then Apple keeping them around somewhere secret. In actuality, for those pictures, what probably happened was when you tried to delete them, the records of those photos in a database on your phone got corrupted when changing their state. Normally they get marked for deletion in the database, and then they're deleted. So they were *marked* for deletion, removing them from view in your library, but the *cleanup* of removing them from the database afterward never happened because of the corrupted records, so they stuck around on the hard drive. Then, an OS update later "cleaned up" that database, effectively undeleting those previously deleted photos as an unexpected side effect.
I don't know if that's the case, because I don't work for Apple, but it passes the smell test for me as a tech industry worker (not BIG tech, but tech). I don't think it's really fair to call this a "bug" in scare-quotes to implicate Apple in some nefarious scheme to keep your deleted photos without your permission.
> What if you were an abused spouse and sent messages to a friend explaining the situation....
I honestly can't perceive this as a mere imaginary hypothetical, as I suspect that such a situation has actually come to pass (perhaps more than once.)
*[edit: added quote/reference, for clarity]*
What's **worse** is that the likelihood of Apple taking *genuine* accountability, without endless lawsuits, in such a situation is close to nil.
Given the recent changes by the FCC regarding establishing guaranteed methods for lines to transfer off an account; I would say this is a legitimate grievance and not a hypothetical.
The same thing recently happened with old images (nudes) reappearing on peoples phones after updating to 17.5.x
Do people really believe Apple, or any company actually deletes your stuff?
My understanding is that data is almost never directly deleted from hard-drives. Cause that would be too inefficient.
Rather: the data is just flagged as “deleted”. But it will stay stored there until they need that space for something else.
Things are normally flagged as deleted and sent to a recycling bin or sorts. If it's deleted from the recycling bin the bytes that represent that data is still there but the system just threw away the directions(reference, id, etc) to get to it and made those bytes available to be reused. If you want to truly delete something you have to overwrite it with new data.
EDIT: I forgot that flash memory is encrypted so deleting the references to it is sufficient for considering it deleted, references to it being restored would cause it to reappear assuming the encrypted data wasn't overwritten. As described in a comment under this one.
While this is true, OS's usually have three tiers. Available, deleted (recycle bin), and permanently deleted. Things in the permanently deleted category are not accessible by the OS without third-party software. If Apple isn't making that transparent to users and isn't allowing data to be flagged as permanently deleted, they should be held responsible.
And you can permanently delete items so that even forensic recovery programs can't recover it. This is done by overwriting the data several times. There are a lot of secure delete apps out there if you want data gone completely.
It’s clear in the messaging app. There’s an option to view recently deleted messages and another option to permanently delete them. There are also retention periods.
The information is clear but just not regularly read by users.
It's a bit less than that. The data doesn't get flagged as deleted as much as the information that there is interpretable data in that bit range on your HD is deleted. (aka the PC is not somehow aware that there is data flagged as deleted, it just flags the data as free space and forgets that the bits in that space are interpretable data)
Your HD has a register of data that is on it with pointers to where that data can be found, when you really delete something (aka you empty your recycle bin) the register entries of that data are deleted, but the data will still be where it is rather than e.g. flipping all it's bits to zero. When the register doesn't know that bit range 5020-5500 is that frivolous porn movie you downloaded then that bit range is just interpreted as available/empty space, even though (unless overwritten with new data) the bit range is still perfectly storing that clip. That's how there is tools that are able to restore permanently deleted data. They scour through the "free"/"unused" bit ranges for interpretable data and then put pointers to them in back in a register.
Which is also why if you really want something gone you should use a tool that flips all the bits that aren't referenced in the register to 0 (or 1). ~~I think forensic labs can somehow even track that and figure out which bits have been flipped and still manage to restore those bits and thus the data, which means if you REALLY REALLY need something GONE you should flip those bits several times over~~
That doesn't explain these images coming back after an os update. What you're saying means the FBI or data recovery businesses can retrieve data, but it won't make it randomly reappear in a backup system
I remember back in the 90s when PCs and HDDs became ubiquitous in office settings, we were taught that when you Deleted a file, all that happened was that the \*pointer\* to that file was deleted. The file/data itself still existed on the HDD. And that would continue to be the case indefinitely until/unless the actual location on the HDD was overwritten with a new file (or digital hash).
When that 17.5 thing happened, I wondered if this is more or less what happened. The Update inadvertently used an older version of the PLIST (or whatever the equivalent would be) which contained old pointers, which pointed to "deleted" photo files which still sat somewhere on an SSD in the cloud. That would also explain why some people had photos restored and others didn't.
I never dug in to see if Apple explained it (or someone else figured it out) but this was my first thought when it happened.
I firmly believe everything you have ever done on the internet is stored in a database somewhere. My Facebook account I finally deleted five or six years ago? It’s not really gone. It exists somewhere in an internet archive or Metas basement servers. God help the next generation.
https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud/what-you-can-do-with-icloud-and-messages-mma17ed475f7/icloud
>Because your messages are in the cloud, if you **send, receive, or delete** a message on one device, those updates appear everywhere. You see the most up-to-date version of your messages, no matter where you access them.
This guy probably didn't have iCloud syncing turned on for all devices.
Some really shortsighted responses in here. You’re absolutely right, there are a lot of occasions where this could cause some real harm. Hell, even something as innocent as a your spouse sending you a racy photo and you delete it, only to have your kids pull it up on the family laptop later. This guy may be kinda scummy, but he certainly has a point.
I do think this needs to change. Deleted on one device should delete it on every logged in device. That’s how one would expect it work and as such it should work that way. Regardless of the scenario, this needs changed.
Agreed, having to delete messages on 4 devices is stupid. And the fact that Apple already has a questionable history with keeping images that should have been deleted… major issue.
How something should work ("should" being defined as the tech flow chart as opposed to my belief system) is reliant on the technology. If something isn't currently online it can't receive a call to delete anything already on the device. People also have a misunderstanding of how information is stored at the data level. When something is deleted what usually happens is the system is told "there's nothing here, move along" when the data is still there. That's done to extend the life of the device as most drives we use have a finite number of writes, but because the data is still actually there it can often be required by services that know what they're doing. All that to say there is no have your cake and eat it too scenario, each option has pros and cons.
At the very least as a matter of convenience.
You would think if I have a watch, an iPhone, and a Mac - if I delete a message on a watch, it’s gone from any other iMessage apps I’m signed into.
I have no idea why this is so hard to implement. Going through an entire scrolling list of messages on my watch to delete each one individually is such a PIA
EDIT: apparently I’m an idiot for asking the question. 🙄
Man I spent hours deleting text messages from years because I had so stupid many that collected and were wasting space. Then found them on my macbook the next morning - pissed me off so much. They just live there now I guess
You can go into Files on Mac and delete pictures and attachments sent to or from you on contacts that you deleted, too. You have to go through Macintosh HD > Users > [your account name] > Library > Messages > Attachments. They still stay in Files for some reason and deleting a lot of mine helped my storage space
I’m confused, I literally just tested this. I deleted a message on my phone and watched it delete on my iPad.
Did Apple recently change this, or is just a matter of the computer being offline and not syncing since he deleted the ?
Exactly how it works. Everyone in here is ignoring the simpler answer - the syncing of messages was not enabled or needed to be refreshed/Apple ID logged back in, etc.
Yeah, you have to have messages in the cloud enabled. If you only have iMessage turned on, or text message forwarding, they will not delete across devices.
iMessage is more akin to instant messaging services of the past.
You have an iMessage account connected to either an Apple ID or a phone number. Messages sent via iMessage will then be sent to all devices signed into iMessage. The Messages in iCloud feature flips this by using iCloud as the main storage for these messages instead of the devices and syncs changes down to each device.
Yeah I thought I was living in la la land for a minute reading this story as I've deleted messsages on my iPad in Messages and they've always been deleted on my Mac and iPhone as well. I just tested it out now to confirm I was not imagining it. I deleted a message on my Mac and within about 5 seconds it was deleted on my iPad and iPhone as well so it clearly does delete across all devices.
I am thinking he didn't have that option to sync Messages with iCloud enabled so obviously it isn't gonna delete on all devices.
Edit: In the article it says he deleted messages on his phone but his wife found them on the family iMac so I just tested this deleting a message on my phone and within a second it deleted in Messages on my Mac too.
So yeah this guy clearly didn't have things configured on the Mac to *sync with iCloud* but the messages were still delivered to the Mac as it was signed into the same iCloud account. This is an option you have to go into Messages on macOS and specifically enable within Messages settings on the iMessage tab there is the option to "Enable Messages in iCloud" which will enable syncing between your other devices which is made pretty clear as it has a "Sync Now" button right there next to the enable option. I am betting the guy never enabled that.
What would be funny is if he won the case, but then the judge said "since the harm done to you occurred during the scope of the marriage, the judgement is considered a marital asset. You owe half the gross to your ex-wife"
Something like that happened to a friend of my son when he was in HS. His mother angry because the computer had so much porn saved on it that it couldn't function and, although he deleted it, the computer was still running slow. I had to explain to him that he needed to empty the trash can after deleting the porn. He did and I was a hero for about 5 minutes.
Article
Apple is to be sued by a businessman after “deleted” messages he sent to sex workers were found by his wife on another device.
The unfaithful husband, who has not been named but is reportedly a middle-aged man from England, claims Apple’s lack of transparency over deleted messages led to his wife filing for divorce.
He told The Times he had turned to prostitutes in the final years of his marriage, and would contact them through the iMessage app on his iPhone before deleting the texts.
But the messages were eventually discovered by his wife on the family’s iMac computer, along with messages going back several years he believed he had wiped.
Suing for £5 million
“If you are told a message is deleted, you are entitled to believe it’s deleted,” He told the Times newspaper.
“It’s all quite painful and quite raw still. It was a very brutal way of finding out [for my wife].
“My thoughts are if I had been able to talk to her rationally and she had not had such a brutal realisation of it, I might still be married.”
He added: “Divorce is an extraordinarily stressful process and you have children and family dynamics.
“In my opinion it’s all because Apple told me my messages were deleted when they weren’t.
“If the message had said, ‘These messages are deleted on this device’, that would have been a clue, or ‘These messages are deleted on this device only’ that would have been even better.”
He is now pursuing legal action against the company for the more than £5 million he lost in his divorce and legal costs, claiming the company does not make it clear to customers that deleted messages can appear on other Apple devices.
Simon Walton, from London law firm Rosenblatt which is representing the businessman, told the Telegraph that “Apple had not been clear with users as to what happens to messages they send and receive and, importantly, delete”.
“In many cases, the iPhone informs the user that messages have been deleted but, as we have seen, that isn’t true and is misleading because they are still found on other linked devices — something Apple doesn’t tell its users,” he said.
“I would be eager to hear from other Apple customers who have experienced similar issues,” he added.
Apple was contacted by the Telegraph for comment.
Worked for Apple care for 5 years. lol Apple Watch is where it’s at. It doesn’t sync all the time with iMessage so it doesn’t delete what you delete on phone or iPad. Fun times as an escalation supervisor.
I was an apple care rep when iCloud and iMessages first released. I remember tons of calls about dad’s text messages going to the kids because the entire family shared one Apple ID lol.
A friend of mine still has his family's iPhones tied to only his iCloud account, instead of them each having one. Every now and then I'll text him and one of his kids or wife will answer from their phone. They're aware, they just don't care.
One of the hosts of a radio show I was listening to was lamenting the fact that sometimes he and his wife get each other's calls and they had no idea why. I was screaming inside my head that it had to have been because they shared an Apple ID. What's even the point of that? If it's app store purchases, don't they have family sharing?
I got at least one example of why someone would share an account. My boomer mom doesn't have an email address, and she'll probably die before she learns "new age tech," so it's just easier for her to piggy back off my email and accounts if she really needs one. She literally still drives to the electric company and pays with a check. Old people be wild sometimes! But on the good news side of things, she's so tech illiterate, that she would never get scammed. She literally will not send, interact, or do anything money related if it's not LITERALLY face to face with a clerk. She inherently thinks it's all scams, which is fine by me, lol! So if she wants something like Paramount+ or anything online or credit card--it runs through my accounts. -- A husband/wife duo should be young enough that they would each have their own email, but I could still see if one of them just hates tech, the other can do it.
Why don't you create your mother an e-mail account without telling her? It's not like she'd notice.
I do tech for a few law firms. I got called in to consult with a male client in divorce proceedings who was "worried that his ex was hacking his phones". Asked him to explain his reasoning, and it was something like "she keeps finding out about lawyer contact stuff as soon as we talk about it, like she's reading my phone". Uh... Do you have an iPhone? "Yeah I've gotten like two new ones and it keeps happening" Did you ever share your iCloud info with her? "Yeah we use the same one" Case closed. You're a fuckin idiot. No hacking here.
User apathy. Never underestimate the lack of fucks given if effort must be exerted to remedy an issue.
I'm in this post and I don't like it.
I'm in this post and I do not care.
To be fair, after a certain point, its an absolute nightmare to unravel and get everyone on their own IDs.
This is like those people whose Reddit username is something like IanBialikFromPlanoTX, when that’s their legit information.
My brother and his goofy narcissist wife are like this. It’s so weird. You can never have a private conversation with him because she’s ALWAYS in on the conversation. I will never understand people that value privacy so little. These phones are an extension of our brains. Even in a relationship, you have to have privacy of thought. We honestly feel like he’s been swept away in a “marriage cult.” He lives out of state and we barely ever talk to him.
Disregarding the potential for abuse and overreach, the best argument I've ever heard for curtailing surveillance and imo a perfect counter to "If you're not doing anything wrong..." is the example of shower singing: Many of us don't like to sing in public. Maybe we are embarrassed at our skill, maybe we just don't like the attention it would bring. But a lot of the same people *will* sing in the shower, when alone. We are simply different people when we don't feel surveilled, regardless of whether we are doing anything wrong/illegal or not. Your brother has obviously been accustomed to always being under observation, and I cannot imagine that it hasn't had an effect on your interactions, but I also imagine it's salvable if he's able to set some boundaries.
the main issue with surveillance is that you cant know what would be deemed "criminal/inappropriate" in the future. ask the jews that were living in the netherlands when hitler came into power. they were found because they dutch had documents about where the jews lived. imagine you get put into a concentration camp in like 20 years from now because now you say something thats not an issue at all at this moment.
Yeah Civil records would also list religion together with name and address, dob etc. All religions, not specifically Jewish. Unfortunately this also made it very easy for a bad actor to target a specific religion by just searching through those records as happened in ww2. It's not done anymore, but surprisingly it was only abandoned quite recently. Like in the last 30 years or so.
I've broken off friendships with folks who operate like this. I don't mind being cool with their significant other, but when they start monitoring conversations or chiming in on discussions that don't include them... I'm like "peace out". Had an old friend who's wife messaged me out of the blue regarding why I didn't talk to her husband anymore. I was like..."Hey....when you let him be an adult again, maybe I'll talk to him, but chiming in on his number ain't cool".
Yup. It’s just strange. They also have no friends. Literally none. And our family has all been isolated.
> They also have no friends. Literally none I also just cut out a pair of friends out of my life (they are a couple) who I used to consider good friends for the last 4 years. They similarly had no concept of boundaries (the guy had access to all of his girlfriend’s social media accounts, banking info, tax info etc) and also had no friends other than me and my partner. People that have no concept of boundaries find it hard to make friends. It *can* be a sign of narcissism. In my case, I found out that they did in fact have narcissistic traits that ultimately forced us to cut them out.
Just wanna point out social media access and bank/tax info access is wildly different. My wife and I both have access to all bank and tax info cause that’s like one of the main legal parts of marriage. Social media sharing is insane though.
No doubt but I’m guessing you guys waited till you were pretty serious till you shared all that info? Because the guy I knew basically got all this info from his girlfriend within 2-3 months of dating. Even love bombed her within a week of getting to know her. And they had a whole bunch of other red flags which creates a pattern of problematic behaviour. But yeah, it can be a normal thing for healthy couples to have that kind of access, especially when you have joint finances and whatnot. Sadly not the case with my ex friends lol
That is the classic tactic of a manipulator. Isolate the victim from **ALL** other people.
The crazy part is that they probably can't understand why.
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Way back in the day my buddy started dating a chick who would check his phone every night and she hated me and another friend so he got a burner phone he left at the office and we only texted during business hours. Then one day his wife shows up to go to lunch and his fucking assistant goes “hey you forgot your phone and runs up to him with it”. We didn’t hear from him for almost two years
Break it off if it gets to the point of snooping and burner phones.
Yeah that's textbook abuse.
You can't really blame the assistant for that, if your buddy's girlfriend wasn't a fuckin' psycho they just bailed out their boss
Sounds like he is in an abusive relationship. You would need to contact him in person when he is alone. Just knowing you are willing to help him escape might be enough.
Just got out of a relationship with a woman that was like this. We didn’t share an Apple ID, but she wanted to be the person that everyone talked to in order to make plans with me. Especially other women. Glad I didn’t marry her and get swept away from everyone I know.
My brother’s marriage is like this. His wife controls everything about the family. Controls my brother and the kids. I don’t understand how he turned out like that.
Probably a slow process and he slipped right into this crappy relationship, adjusting along the way.
That’s fucking creepy bro.
Reminds me of the before time when the parents would pick up the second phone in the house. “DAD HANG UP I’M ON THE PHONE”
The bravery to just let your family see your texts. I bet they casually swipe through photos too.
My parents only have one Gmail account that they share which makes supporting their phones pretty awful
What do they do when they need to send messages to each other? Just throwing the letters into the abyss of solemnity of a chat?
I got a good one. Worked for a company and we had hundreds of iPads to check out. All using one Apple ID. Well we started discovering people using these iPads to take spicy photos all backed up to that one ID. I don’t think anyone ever got formally in trouble but until we switched to everyone getting their own Apple ID we would warn them that these are for work and you should be careful about using it for personal things. It would be pictures of empty lots and construction sites then ass, titties n dicks. 😂
I work in infosec. We don't really care about porn unless it comes up during an investigation and is relevant, or the person is dumb enough to go somewhere that downloads malware or it causes other issues. Once I was working on dealing with some adware someone had on their laptop. I was reviewing logs to ensure nothing worse was downloaded. I found he had been moving copious amounts of porn to and from some personal USB drives (this was before we had software that'd block USB). I tried to warn him about doing that because it showed up in our logs, by mentioning that he may want to lay off using his work computer to transport "certain files" between drives. I didn't use air quotes, but I put a strong emphasis on it. He didn't pick up on what I was trying to say though, and he goes "Oh, I was moving that stuff for my wife. I'll stop". I bit my tongue.
I think he knew exactly what you meant and wanted to save face.
yeah it's not like he'd be like OH RIGHT THE PORN
How do people not grasp the concept of "keep your work electronics for work" at this point? I won't even let my personal phone connect to the work WiFi. I was pretty shocked about the Tiktok/other apps on government phones thing. Why TF are people doing that?
This is so wild to me. I always just assume that any work device is monitored. I won't even check the weather or news on my work laptop 😅
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Did tech support and was sorting out a HDD. TL;DR old guy had tickle porn all over his pc. Women in underwear getting tickled with feathers. I don’t kink shame - but I couldn’t wrap my head around it. Edit: They were lying face up on a table and had no sounds or movement…. Just blinked…
As someone who used to do remote tech support for users...trust me tickle porn is the least creepy shit you could have found. Its weird but basically harmless.
I mean, I also did a data recovery job for this woman in her 20’s. Ended up finding her ‘deleted’ stash of herself. Stayed professional and gave her everything anyway.
You gonna answer u/Kagestar ‘s question or not?
He's feeling sheepish
As the 'company IT geek', I'd get bothered a lot by people wanting me to "just take a quick look at (whateverHardwareTheyHad/BoughtLastWeekendFromSomeDodgyMarket/etc), enough that my boss had to send out an email to knock it off, we don't have time for fixing some computer you found at the side of the road. <1 hour after the email went out, Manager of the Import Department wanders in with his son's PC if we could just take a quick look at it, won't take long. /groan. Was actually curious as it was the first time I'd ever seen one of the Sega PC's up close, and wanted to know how it was at gaming, so we took it on. The Manager followed the boss and me into the 'geek den' with the workbench, got it plonked on the desk, blew out enough dust to refill 1/10th of the Sahara, and got it booting up. First thing, by default, lets just check the temp folder, clear the trashcan, do a defrag, see what files are using the most space, and oh ho! we've found a hidden folder. The manager was laughing "oh, that's my boy, what's he got?" and I was fully expecting.. dunno, something fairly mild? Animal porn. The first (and only in a very full folder) video was some chick taking on a horse. I'm just glad I didn't plug in the speakers. "well, ok, lets just close that, take it home, see how it goes for the fella, eh?". Looking back, I don't know what we should have done. No idea if it was legal or not, and this is...25ish years ago. Should we have said "ok, leave it with us" and rummaged through if there was freakier stuff? Just closing it up, handing it over, and never speaking of it again seemed the right thing to do at the time. Oh, and fixing the chairman's computer. He'd just discovered usenet it appeared. Had some reader in the autorun folder, and as booting up, got a full list of all the channels he was perusing. There were rumours at work what he was into, I knew for sure, but figured it wasn't my place to out him. THAT wasn't anything too bad, looked like he just liked looking at nekkid men, good for him. Very happy not stumbled into /really/ dark stuff.
Oof, awkward as fuck on that first one! The second one I would've just skipped too. Good on you.
I worked on a machine that was a friend of my gf at the time and his bookmarks were LOADED with pro-Hitler articles and dom/scat. Fixed his issues and never went there again.
Clearly, you did not fix his issues.
When I was in tech support I found bestiality on a guy's work unit. I was young and didn't know I should have reported that sick fuck to HR, which I regret in hindsight.
Found CP on a farmer's computer as i was setting up an internet connection. Drove off and called the cops. They needed proof so the guys i worked for turned off his internet, rang him saying "yeah, the tech will be back in an hour, looks like something went wrong." Using a phone the cops gave me (to avoid having to turn in my phone), i went in, rang my boss, asked him to go reboot the router while i kept tabs on it on my end, snapped some pics, texted to turn his net back on and left. They grabbed him at the grocery store a few weeks later. Apparently his computer helped them locate one of the producers. I got a pretty tough stomach, but when i realized what i was looking at i damn near puked. Fotunately i was put in touch with a good therapist. Don't gather evidence yourself unless the cops need you to, they rarely do, this was just the easiest way to get it without cluing him in. If i hadn't, they were just gonna wiretap his connectikn back at the headend.
Thank you so much for giving a fuck about the abused.
I could not have played it as cool as you did. You happened to stumble upon one of the darkest things humanity has to offer. Absolutely horrifying. Glad it led to a larger arrest and that you are taking care of yourself after such an experience.
I'm one hell of a stoic and pretty neutral when it comes to expressing myself. There was a moment or twp of "oh fuck... that's kids..." before i closed the window and finished the job. Dude had like... 20 guns in the house. I was being very careful not to let him catch on, and after that i didn't let him leave my sight. I did have a panic button when i went back. Only reason i felt comfortable. There were at least 3 cops hidden in the bushes nearby.
This is disturbing. Thank you for not walking away and reporting what happened.
"Evil thrives when good men do nothing." A quote i feel more folks should live by.
Dude, you're an awesome human being for doing what you did. Cool and calm even under pressure. I hope that shit never happens to you again. And you did something good in the world. Cheers man!
I may have looked it, but holy shit was i set to 11 for those 10 minutes.
I have a similar story too. It was my first day working as an Advanced Repair Technician at GeekSquad. This old guy comes in with his old ASUS gaming laptop stating that he needed his data backed up and the OS reinstalled because he was having issues with Windows. As we were wrapping up the consultation he mentioned to me that he has porn in his computer, but isn’t sure if it’s considered CP and then asked me if that would be a problem. I immediately finished the check-in process as fast as I could without making it obvious that this was in fact a HUGE problem, waited for the guy to leave the store, and then called my manager so we could call local PD about this. Local PD arrived a few hours later with a warrant to take the laptop. A week or two later, they had us call him back to the store so they could arrest him when he went to pick up the laptop. I didn’t see the contents of laptop, but just knowing that I was talking to somebody who consumes that content absolutely disgusted me.
It was *very* hard to keep the customer service look going while i knew that, had a wire in my pocket (i.e. the phone was recording audio, just in case) and a panic button. I got out and basically just went to the nearest town with the cops and we had some coffee and we talked things over a bit. One of em reccommended me a good therapisf he knew had helped other officers in the past, and i was talking to him for a while. Really helped.
You're amazing. And it's nice to hear cops actually doing something and caring enough about your mh as well instead of just moving on
“wasnt sure?” if it’s saved on his computer he downloaded it from a site that specialized in it. or based on his searches.🙄
Good lord that’s a rough way to be involved. I was working an entry level tech support job years ago and we caught a guy with CP and turned him in. But luckily for us we were running some virus scans with Linux bootable discs so all we were seeing were the file names in CLI. That was enough for us to call the cops, hand over the computer with notes of where to look and his info including credit card info etc… no one I worked with ever had to see any of the pics.
Oh i voulenteered after talking to my boss. We had a way in and he trusted me at least a little, so i figured i had the best chamce at not tipping him off. It was a catch 22 for him, either he didn't cat h on and i left with him none the wiser, or he did, i hit the oh shit swit h they gave me, and at thay point my job was "get the fuck out, or get the fuck down, because we're coming in." Fortunately, my customer service face is *stronk*.
Omg kudos to you. Seriously hats off. I know it was the only right thing to do, and I’m sorry for how it undoubtedly has affected you, but I’m incredibly thankful you did it. After listening to the “hunting warhead” podcast (and having 3 small kids), I have incredible gratitude for the forces out there fighting CP.
I bumped into that podcast as a result of interests in both true crime and communications technologies. It was simultaneously captivating and distressing. I still think about it from time to time. It truly boggles the mind that there are such cruel uncaring people in the world, and that given such markets exist, they are around us everyday. Not many podcasts are capable of affecting the listener as profoundly as this one. The other pods in the same series (CBC Discover i think?) are all similarly well researched, and thankfully not as gut-wrenching.
You should watch the documentary tickled. Wild stuff lol
Okay, that it’s “Stephen Fry presents” is just fucking funny. As for the content… What the fuuuuuck. The initial premise of what they were trying to look into is like that joke in *Bigmouth* about competitive nipple twisting. That the rabbit-hole went deeper is, somehow, both entirely unsurprising and shocking. > A follow-up special, *The Tickle King*, aired on HBO in February 2017 Okay, how do they green light that title with a straight face, tho
The tickle King has the same last name as me and it's very upsetting
Nice to meet you Mr. Very-Upsetting.
That is one of the most bizarre documentaries.
I never really thought about tickling sexually until someone tickled me during sex and let me tell you that took me from 100 to 1000 really fast
I had a partner for a short time who loved to be tickled. I'm pretty open so we incorporated it into sex. It was actually really fun and hot. Laughing just added a really lighthearted air to it all. I already enjoy laughing and sex cause sex is silly. But I was very surprised at my reaction. We had some wild chemistry.
lol I did it to my wife and she just oeed on me instead, lol.
“OOOHHHH-EEEEE!!!”
Wow honey, I thought we were supposed to try watersports on Tuesday night!
Tuesday night is trivia night, sorry.
Username checks out.
I can't say I've ever heard of it. But maybe just a thing for smiles and laughter? I don't really wanna look it up and find out though.
I'm glad that didn't go where I expected
I have narcolepsy and experience cataplexy from getting tickled. That just sounds like a horror movie to me.
Ever since I was a little girl I’ve had a recurring nightmare about being tickled by a demon wearing the face of people I know/love. I’m with you on this sounding like a horror movie…
Back around 2011, if you had an Apple Store transfer your profile from old Mac to new Mac (at least in our store) - you would launch every app in the iLife suite once to A) confirm the data transferred and B) make sure any lingering processes were wrapped up. Part of providing a seamless migration to the consumer. Buuuut. When you first launch iPhoto - it asks if you want it to handle all your photos. Our process was to say yes to this step. So it would scan the computer for ever. Single. Photo. And show them as they ingested. So yeah. Lots of homemade nudity and porn folders would get synced into the iPhoto Library. Can’t imagine how many domestic arguments that triggered.
I worked in Apple Store when this all went down we saw an increase in two types of customers - very upset husbands and wives - very upset parents of teenagers R144 for any other past employees
Had that with a guy in Afghanistan. Was running a photo slide show of pictures from the ground on his new iPad on the big screen when his unit came in from the ground after a couple of months out. Connected it to the internet for the first time in months and the photos his wife had taken on her phone started coming up too.
aaaaaaaaand?
Lots of pictures of her boyfriend Jody
Jody has a mullet.
Don't leave us hanging, literally..
Oh, it was just pictures of deer. She likes deer.
Hooray for a wholesome answer
Everyone likes snaps of fine young bucks!
Oh yes. There was plenty of grit!
heh I remember a bit of ones like that, always interesting. Not always family, like in this instance texts or photos, sometimes embarrasing ones to non-significant others. Also remember using bomgar (apple's remote software, not sure if they still use it) and this poor older dude was having itunes music sync issues. Was casually pulling up his iTunes and had his videos pulled up. Dude had a bunch of porn. Obviously didn't say anything and was just like "okay click on music..." Funny thing is I recognized a few based on just the thumbnails lmao. Dude at least had some good tastes.
Or you were both filthy degenerates...
Oh i'm into pretty vanilla stuff, it was a compilation video lmao. However I will not refute the filthy degenerate claim in general.
I also work for Apple and I cannot tell you how many issues we have because people come in and don't understand that they should have their own individual Apple IDs. Like, people set up their accounts incorrectly sharing an Apple ID with several other people and then get mad at us because their shit isn't working the way it's intended to. When we tell them they need to make their own individual apple IDs, they act like we're telling them they need to get kidney surgery or something. It's wild how apples entire business model is making technology accessible and easy to use, and yet somehow that only causes people to be even less technologically literate and get even more upset when they do things that make the devices work incorrectly.
I think this is kind of a consequence of apple’s original decision to not support user profiles on the iPad. When the first iPad came out, people were screaming for user profiles like they had on Mac, but apple was like “nah, you each need to buy your own iPad”.
I’m relieving the trauma from my Genius Bar days reading this comment.
I worked for Apple in 2011 and remember this also. Spouses sharing an iCloud and one deleting the other ones photos or work texts. Lol.
This happens to my family *constantly* because we still all share the one ID. Fortunately all anyone ever texts is “hey Amanda are we going to Costco next week”
Why do you still all share one apple ID?
Why not just like, get your own Apple ID?
Delete should mean delete, despite this guy’s shitty motivations. I have groups I’ve deleted from iMessage and then I make a new group a month later and it remembers the old one.
This has happened to me too. Also, I've noticed on many occasions exactly what the guy in the article experienced: I delete a thread on one device, but the thread remains on some - but not all - other linked devices. Biggest culprit is my Apple Watch. If I had to guess I'd say that maybe 10% of the time I delete a thread on my Mac or iPhone, it's still there on my AW.
This is how I found out that my soon to be ex-wife was cheating on me again.
Been there man, hang in there. It’s hard to throw in the towel on the hard work you’ve done after the first round but great to finally make the call and put your foot down. Cheers to brighter days ahead and finding your new level.
Wholesome as fuck. Thanks being a nice guy bro.
Appreciate it man. It was the icing on the cake.
That must've been some shitty cake
Hey i know of a soon to be ex wife who is in the exact opposite situation you are! You two should get married!
Only if she is willing to sign a prenup.
Ugh I'm sorry man, I know it's painful as all hell but glad to hear you're making the right moves to move on. Truth be told, if someone can justify cheating on their partner once, they'll very likely do so again - it's emblematic of a lack of moral character & getting caught/feeling bad about it really can't fix that character trait. Just take things one day at a time (one hour at a time if necessary) & stay busy, productivity/self-improvement is best but you won't always have the motivation & in those times just stay busy, preferably being around friends &/or doing an activity you enjoy. For me it's going absolutely ham on disc golf, which if you need a new hobby it's very low barrier to entry, free after getting discs, & involves hiking! But remember, in the words of Mike Ehrmentraut, one day you'll wake up, brush your teeth, & not even think about the trauma, & when *that* happens, you'll know that you can forget/let go. Wishing you all the best, my friend!
Is it supposed to delete across devices? I've deleted stuff from my phone cause I don't want large videos taking up device space, but those same texts are fine on my Mac. Not everyone has the same reasons for deleting old messages and don't necessarily want it wiped clean from everything. Just as I don't want my notifications silenced on my computer just because my phone is silenced. Just as I don't want pictures from the photo album I delete from my phone wiped clean on everything else. It seems like most people think deleting should be across devices, but I personally prefer devices with separate functions.
In theory, when you delete something in this instance, imnsho it should ask “only this device” or “all devices.”
Exactly what I thought. That’s not a big ask, and very much more clear about what/where is or is not being deleted. Edit: corrected spelling
That’s how cloud applications are supposed to be architected, generally speaking. It’s weird to have multiple versions of the truth on different devices.
[удалено]
Yeah. This guy was a cheating scumbag, but imagine if this happened to someone in an abusive relationship.
Yeah if someone was trying to get help in an abusive relationship and they got caught..
I am now worried this has happened but it hasnt been reported because they are now murdered
Statistically it's all but guaranteed to have happened multiple times at this point.
That is true IF you have Messages in iCloud enabled on both devices. If you only enable Messages but not Messages in iCloud, then those messages can be seen by each device but the deletions will not sync. https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud/set-up-messages-mm0de0d4528d/icloud. If you check the article for Messages (https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/delete-messages-and-attachments-iph2c9c4bfcb/ios), you'll find at the bottom "If you use [Messages in iCloud](https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/set-up-messages-iph3d039b67/17.0/ios/17.0#iph6fc6b7653), deleting a message or conversation on your iPhone deletes it from all your devices where Messages in iCloud is on."
Yea i hate to back this guy but i think he has a case. Especially if hes paying alimony and child support. Imagine if he passes those costs to apple lmao
If I was the ex wife I'd be telling him to sue too. Like "I hate you, but apple is worth gazillions. Sue them,get that money, we split it (for the kids) and die rich."
Sounds like they're already rich, article says he lost more than 5 million in the divorce
heck I'd testify for my ex if it would get me alamony and childsupport out of apple. my kids would be set for life
> Sue them,get that money, we split it (for the kids) and die rich. There's a romcom in there where during the lawsuit they fall back in love and retire on the massive settlement
Ultimate irony: he gets a massive settlement from Apple, and ex-wife uses that windfall to re-litigate increased alimony payments.
This technical 'glitch' cost him a lot of money, but thats not really what the case is decided on. What he has to prove is that Apple was negligent **specifically in regards to returning supposedly-deleted messages to spouses** and not simply guilty of poor coding or unclear feature implementation. He has to prove that apple knew BOTH about the technical problem AND about the potential harm it could cause.
> He has to prove that apple knew BOTH about the technical problem What if Apple pretends it's not a problem and refuses to acknowledge it? That's very convenient for them.
The defendant not admitting to wrongdoing is why court cases are a thing. 🤷🏻
This threads full of apple techs laughing about how often this comes up so seems pretty probable tbh
It’s not really a glitch though. Apple has support pages about this exact issue. If you have two devices and one of them is synced to iCloud but the other isn’t. Then they will both get the message. But if you delete it, it won’t delete on the non-iCloud set up device. It sounds like this is exactly what happened.
"You just had a random thought about murdering someone. I will tip law enforcement agencies." -Neuralink
> I will tip law enforcement agencies. tipping culture really is out of control
He's got a point. What if you were an abused spouse and sent messages to a friend explaining the situation, then you delete them expecting privacy, only for your partner to discover those messages and beat you to death. While his situation is immorale to most, Apple's actions cannot be ignored. If you can't see a situation where having deleted messages resurface could be bad, you simply lack imagination.
Yeah I don't like the scenario, but deleted messages should definitely be deleted.
He’s right for the wrong reason
“He’s out of line, but he’s right.”
“You’re not wrong, Walter. You’re just an asshole!”
Calmer than you are
I love the big Lebowski Easter eggs 🥹
Yeah waving the fucking gun around?!
He's morally wrong. You can't sue for that Apple are morally AND contractually wrong. You can sue for that.
The operation was a success, but the patient died.
That recent “bug” where deleted photos popped back up, actually happened to me. It was insane to see pics I deleted ages ago. Terrifying actually. I can’t believe this shit isn’t actually deleted. I’m not even in any cloud. It’s not like I deleted them from a cloud. I just deleted them from my phone. But nope. They’re back… never went anywhere.. totally insane.
I read somewhere (can't find it now, of course) that it wasn't a case of you deleting something and then Apple keeping them around somewhere secret. In actuality, for those pictures, what probably happened was when you tried to delete them, the records of those photos in a database on your phone got corrupted when changing their state. Normally they get marked for deletion in the database, and then they're deleted. So they were *marked* for deletion, removing them from view in your library, but the *cleanup* of removing them from the database afterward never happened because of the corrupted records, so they stuck around on the hard drive. Then, an OS update later "cleaned up" that database, effectively undeleting those previously deleted photos as an unexpected side effect. I don't know if that's the case, because I don't work for Apple, but it passes the smell test for me as a tech industry worker (not BIG tech, but tech). I don't think it's really fair to call this a "bug" in scare-quotes to implicate Apple in some nefarious scheme to keep your deleted photos without your permission.
> What if you were an abused spouse and sent messages to a friend explaining the situation.... I honestly can't perceive this as a mere imaginary hypothetical, as I suspect that such a situation has actually come to pass (perhaps more than once.) *[edit: added quote/reference, for clarity]* What's **worse** is that the likelihood of Apple taking *genuine* accountability, without endless lawsuits, in such a situation is close to nil.
Given the recent changes by the FCC regarding establishing guaranteed methods for lines to transfer off an account; I would say this is a legitimate grievance and not a hypothetical.
The same thing recently happened with old images (nudes) reappearing on peoples phones after updating to 17.5.x Do people really believe Apple, or any company actually deletes your stuff?
My understanding is that data is almost never directly deleted from hard-drives. Cause that would be too inefficient. Rather: the data is just flagged as “deleted”. But it will stay stored there until they need that space for something else.
Things are normally flagged as deleted and sent to a recycling bin or sorts. If it's deleted from the recycling bin the bytes that represent that data is still there but the system just threw away the directions(reference, id, etc) to get to it and made those bytes available to be reused. If you want to truly delete something you have to overwrite it with new data. EDIT: I forgot that flash memory is encrypted so deleting the references to it is sufficient for considering it deleted, references to it being restored would cause it to reappear assuming the encrypted data wasn't overwritten. As described in a comment under this one.
While this is true, OS's usually have three tiers. Available, deleted (recycle bin), and permanently deleted. Things in the permanently deleted category are not accessible by the OS without third-party software. If Apple isn't making that transparent to users and isn't allowing data to be flagged as permanently deleted, they should be held responsible. And you can permanently delete items so that even forensic recovery programs can't recover it. This is done by overwriting the data several times. There are a lot of secure delete apps out there if you want data gone completely.
It’s clear in the messaging app. There’s an option to view recently deleted messages and another option to permanently delete them. There are also retention periods. The information is clear but just not regularly read by users.
Correct, deleted means flagged for overwriting. This is why zeroing the drive is a good idea if you had sensitive data on there.
It's a bit less than that. The data doesn't get flagged as deleted as much as the information that there is interpretable data in that bit range on your HD is deleted. (aka the PC is not somehow aware that there is data flagged as deleted, it just flags the data as free space and forgets that the bits in that space are interpretable data) Your HD has a register of data that is on it with pointers to where that data can be found, when you really delete something (aka you empty your recycle bin) the register entries of that data are deleted, but the data will still be where it is rather than e.g. flipping all it's bits to zero. When the register doesn't know that bit range 5020-5500 is that frivolous porn movie you downloaded then that bit range is just interpreted as available/empty space, even though (unless overwritten with new data) the bit range is still perfectly storing that clip. That's how there is tools that are able to restore permanently deleted data. They scour through the "free"/"unused" bit ranges for interpretable data and then put pointers to them in back in a register. Which is also why if you really want something gone you should use a tool that flips all the bits that aren't referenced in the register to 0 (or 1). ~~I think forensic labs can somehow even track that and figure out which bits have been flipped and still manage to restore those bits and thus the data, which means if you REALLY REALLY need something GONE you should flip those bits several times over~~
Microwave the hard drive, drill holes in it and then dump it in water, anything less and the NSA will find a way to get something.
That doesn't explain these images coming back after an os update. What you're saying means the FBI or data recovery businesses can retrieve data, but it won't make it randomly reappear in a backup system
I remember back in the 90s when PCs and HDDs became ubiquitous in office settings, we were taught that when you Deleted a file, all that happened was that the \*pointer\* to that file was deleted. The file/data itself still existed on the HDD. And that would continue to be the case indefinitely until/unless the actual location on the HDD was overwritten with a new file (or digital hash). When that 17.5 thing happened, I wondered if this is more or less what happened. The Update inadvertently used an older version of the PLIST (or whatever the equivalent would be) which contained old pointers, which pointed to "deleted" photo files which still sat somewhere on an SSD in the cloud. That would also explain why some people had photos restored and others didn't. I never dug in to see if Apple explained it (or someone else figured it out) but this was my first thought when it happened.
I firmly believe everything you have ever done on the internet is stored in a database somewhere. My Facebook account I finally deleted five or six years ago? It’s not really gone. It exists somewhere in an internet archive or Metas basement servers. God help the next generation.
https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud/what-you-can-do-with-icloud-and-messages-mma17ed475f7/icloud >Because your messages are in the cloud, if you **send, receive, or delete** a message on one device, those updates appear everywhere. You see the most up-to-date version of your messages, no matter where you access them. This guy probably didn't have iCloud syncing turned on for all devices.
Some really shortsighted responses in here. You’re absolutely right, there are a lot of occasions where this could cause some real harm. Hell, even something as innocent as a your spouse sending you a racy photo and you delete it, only to have your kids pull it up on the family laptop later. This guy may be kinda scummy, but he certainly has a point.
frankly apple is lucky its this guy suing them and not the parents of a dead abuse victim
I do think this needs to change. Deleted on one device should delete it on every logged in device. That’s how one would expect it work and as such it should work that way. Regardless of the scenario, this needs changed.
This should be an option. And clearly stated “Do you want to delete this text (picture, etc) from all your connected devices?”
It already is, when you enable iMessage for iCloud.
I have it enabled but still sometimes it won’t delete across devices.
Agreed, having to delete messages on 4 devices is stupid. And the fact that Apple already has a questionable history with keeping images that should have been deleted… major issue.
How something should work ("should" being defined as the tech flow chart as opposed to my belief system) is reliant on the technology. If something isn't currently online it can't receive a call to delete anything already on the device. People also have a misunderstanding of how information is stored at the data level. When something is deleted what usually happens is the system is told "there's nothing here, move along" when the data is still there. That's done to extend the life of the device as most drives we use have a finite number of writes, but because the data is still actually there it can often be required by services that know what they're doing. All that to say there is no have your cake and eat it too scenario, each option has pros and cons.
At the very least as a matter of convenience. You would think if I have a watch, an iPhone, and a Mac - if I delete a message on a watch, it’s gone from any other iMessage apps I’m signed into. I have no idea why this is so hard to implement. Going through an entire scrolling list of messages on my watch to delete each one individually is such a PIA EDIT: apparently I’m an idiot for asking the question. 🙄
I just deleted a message and it said it would be deleted from all devices.
You have [iCloud for messages](https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud/set-up-messages-mm0de0d4528d/icloud) enabled, I'm betting.
Man I spent hours deleting text messages from years because I had so stupid many that collected and were wasting space. Then found them on my macbook the next morning - pissed me off so much. They just live there now I guess
You can go into Files on Mac and delete pictures and attachments sent to or from you on contacts that you deleted, too. You have to go through Macintosh HD > Users > [your account name] > Library > Messages > Attachments. They still stay in Files for some reason and deleting a lot of mine helped my storage space
I’m confused, I literally just tested this. I deleted a message on my phone and watched it delete on my iPad. Did Apple recently change this, or is just a matter of the computer being offline and not syncing since he deleted the ?
Exactly how it works. Everyone in here is ignoring the simpler answer - the syncing of messages was not enabled or needed to be refreshed/Apple ID logged back in, etc.
Yeah, you have to have messages in the cloud enabled. If you only have iMessage turned on, or text message forwarding, they will not delete across devices.
If messages in the cloud is disabled, then items from one device shouldn't ever show up on any others, right?
Nope, if both devices are set up to use the imessage account the device will show up on both, whether or not you are storing the messages in iCloud
iMessage is more akin to instant messaging services of the past. You have an iMessage account connected to either an Apple ID or a phone number. Messages sent via iMessage will then be sent to all devices signed into iMessage. The Messages in iCloud feature flips this by using iCloud as the main storage for these messages instead of the devices and syncs changes down to each device.
Yeah I thought I was living in la la land for a minute reading this story as I've deleted messsages on my iPad in Messages and they've always been deleted on my Mac and iPhone as well. I just tested it out now to confirm I was not imagining it. I deleted a message on my Mac and within about 5 seconds it was deleted on my iPad and iPhone as well so it clearly does delete across all devices. I am thinking he didn't have that option to sync Messages with iCloud enabled so obviously it isn't gonna delete on all devices. Edit: In the article it says he deleted messages on his phone but his wife found them on the family iMac so I just tested this deleting a message on my phone and within a second it deleted in Messages on my Mac too. So yeah this guy clearly didn't have things configured on the Mac to *sync with iCloud* but the messages were still delivered to the Mac as it was signed into the same iCloud account. This is an option you have to go into Messages on macOS and specifically enable within Messages settings on the iMessage tab there is the option to "Enable Messages in iCloud" which will enable syncing between your other devices which is made pretty clear as it has a "Sync Now" button right there next to the enable option. I am betting the guy never enabled that.
What would be funny is if he won the case, but then the judge said "since the harm done to you occurred during the scope of the marriage, the judgement is considered a marital asset. You owe half the gross to your ex-wife"
Lol fantasy revenge porn
While they were married there was no damage. The financial damage occurred after his wife divorced him.
If you sync messages on all your devices doesn’t that happen? They go in the “deleted” folder for 30 days then disappear
They do. He must not have been using iCloud so the messages were downloaded and saved to each device independently.
I guess we need to go back to burner phones then
Something like that happened to a friend of my son when he was in HS. His mother angry because the computer had so much porn saved on it that it couldn't function and, although he deleted it, the computer was still running slow. I had to explain to him that he needed to empty the trash can after deleting the porn. He did and I was a hero for about 5 minutes.
if you don't want to get caught, don't cheat.
Driving in your car and a text message pops up on the cars screen while the entire family is in the car 🤯
Yah delete should mean delete. All this cloud integration and syncing gets out of hand. Not only are messages synced but even the notes app etc.
Article Apple is to be sued by a businessman after “deleted” messages he sent to sex workers were found by his wife on another device. The unfaithful husband, who has not been named but is reportedly a middle-aged man from England, claims Apple’s lack of transparency over deleted messages led to his wife filing for divorce. He told The Times he had turned to prostitutes in the final years of his marriage, and would contact them through the iMessage app on his iPhone before deleting the texts. But the messages were eventually discovered by his wife on the family’s iMac computer, along with messages going back several years he believed he had wiped. Suing for £5 million “If you are told a message is deleted, you are entitled to believe it’s deleted,” He told the Times newspaper. “It’s all quite painful and quite raw still. It was a very brutal way of finding out [for my wife]. “My thoughts are if I had been able to talk to her rationally and she had not had such a brutal realisation of it, I might still be married.” He added: “Divorce is an extraordinarily stressful process and you have children and family dynamics. “In my opinion it’s all because Apple told me my messages were deleted when they weren’t. “If the message had said, ‘These messages are deleted on this device’, that would have been a clue, or ‘These messages are deleted on this device only’ that would have been even better.” He is now pursuing legal action against the company for the more than £5 million he lost in his divorce and legal costs, claiming the company does not make it clear to customers that deleted messages can appear on other Apple devices. Simon Walton, from London law firm Rosenblatt which is representing the businessman, told the Telegraph that “Apple had not been clear with users as to what happens to messages they send and receive and, importantly, delete”. “In many cases, the iPhone informs the user that messages have been deleted but, as we have seen, that isn’t true and is misleading because they are still found on other linked devices — something Apple doesn’t tell its users,” he said. “I would be eager to hear from other Apple customers who have experienced similar issues,” he added. Apple was contacted by the Telegraph for comment.
Worked for Apple care for 5 years. lol Apple Watch is where it’s at. It doesn’t sync all the time with iMessage so it doesn’t delete what you delete on phone or iPad. Fun times as an escalation supervisor.
He may be an asshole but he's right.
Apples stupid concept of “every device is my device thinking”.